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Putin's given us the boot! Read about it here: https://zzzchan.xyz/news.html#66208b6a8fca3aefee4bf211

John 3:16 KJV: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

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What is your favourite verse or part of the Old Testament?
I like the history of Moses.
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Replies: >>25864 + 6 earlier
Judges is always one my favorite books to read when I cycle back through the OT. For some reason it always reminds me of a Mad Max setting.
Replies: >>25629
>For some reason it always reminds me of a Mad Max setting.
Yeah, that's a pretty cool way of looking at things Anon. I think the Christian church has been pansified (largely due to unrestrained behavior of women) to the point where they seem somehow to forget it is an awesome and mighty God with Whom we all have to do. His holiness will brook no rivals.
I think most people agree that Exodus is the best part of first testament
>The sacrifice of Isaac
>>17420 (OP) 
Genesis 6

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I want to get this of my chest as a confession and because other than the Lord I don't want anyone else to know this. I give up on finding romantic love.

I am going to focus on my self and on taking care of my mother. Focus on my goal of buying a good house. Maybe this is what God wants me to do for the rest of my life. This doesn't mean I hate or have Ill-will against women, I think and feel that God doesn't want me to be with anyone.
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>It is in God's hands because it's a part of His plan.
God is a slightly above averagely heighted white bearded man *who is outside of temporal laws*. Where everything happens all at once. Your birth, the life and death of your kin, your death, the next people living in your house, their lives and deaths, for as many millennia of our lives there are freeze frame snapshots of it all, all at once, happened all as simultaneously as each other. In a blink. The whole Mongolian Empire of Ghengis Khan does not even constitute one eighth of the blink. The level of awareness or acuity on these happenings bear in mind is accounting not only for normal reality, but the reality where one hair is out of alignment, and the one with a different hair, times as many variations as all opportunity allows.

To say that you don't get what God's plan is but are willing to follow it is fine anon. God has accounted for the reality in which you offer up complete and utter passivity. But God will not obstruct the results of that reality from you. This is how God's love is paternal instead of maternal. A maternal God would make man a God in kind and snatch the lesson of life away - lest your hands be vulnerable to the heat of a stove and you burn either of them.

If you don't understand these things then I'll try to help you have some more understanding because it's important. But I can't give you more piety because I haven't got any. Ask another anon for that.

>Whatever happens, happens.
It is what it is. Like I say. At the end of the day. Nothing changes. When all is said and done. Let the abortions happen. Let the gain of function research happen. Let it all be foregone, because God foresaw it to happen.

God also, equally, forsaw you doing some other thing. I'm just saying. What you wojak posters want typically is an excuse that is obfuscated somehow. I'm guilty of sloth and lust too m8, it is my fault. It is MY fault. God accounted for it sure. He did not make me do this. This kind of understanding, you ought to have it.

>There's nothing I could possibly do
Oh Ok.
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Replies: >>25827
Though you raise up good points, there's no need to be so aggressive, anon

Personally I don't think OP giving up on romantic life is necessarily bad, as long as he remains open to it. Not everyone is called to be married. And not everyone is called to be married *right now*.

> I don't really know what to do
We've all been there. The way she acted... that's unfortunately common. If you're not careful you'll end up feeling like if your love is something uncomfortable for the other person. You'll think (maybe not rationally, but you'll act it up) that loving someone is doing them a disservice. Please, anon, never believe that lie.

By distancing yourself right now you're doing the right thing. Yes, you love her: that's a good thing. Love is freely given, and that means she's not forced to love you back, she may well choose not to. You have to come to terms with that. It's painful, but it's through accepting suffering without becoming resentful that we grow.

And don't forget to pray about it all. God can teach more about love that any of us could ever do. We'll be praying for you too.
Replies: >>25827 >>25831
You misunderstand me, I'm not throwing my hands up, I'm just saying let God guide me down the road I'm meant to walk instead of wasting time fighting the wind.

Thanks, your words are helpful, what you said about not becoming resentful is true and it's something I still struggle with not just with this. There's much I still need to pray about.
>there's no need to be so aggressive anon
Oh you're probably right, OP seems healthier than me I just thrive on highs all day. This one's supplied via a cross between wrath and excitement. Topic worthy of another thread.

But bear in mind I've seen people who say: "after all it is what it is. Just water under the bridge. Who knows except the wheel of time." They're usually the sort put in charge of a decision regarding the medical emergency you or a friend of yours is going through in the moment. Their passive platonic nature has others pay and then their explanation for it later is typically a similarly styled platitude. As I said I hope OP looks to be in the clear, but these people you cannot tell softly. They have got to be told hard.

>everyone having a calling
I'm still sore about that. If everyone has these callings, what of free will? Further, I hate my calling. I execute animals regularly. They've done no wrong but strive to live, but they've done it inside a house or a roof where they're a pest. My desire to help OP is in part to make my hands work constructively instead of having thrown things away. If I didn't believe I could change this I'd not lift my own weight up to do things.

As far as diagnosing or improving OP anon's prospects, I think most things have been conveyed already but he should make sure as well you've no
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Replies: >>25833
>If everyone has these callings, what of free will?
your actions are your own, you can even resist the Holy Spirit (ive done so myself) but God knew beforehand everything you'd ever do and ever possibility, hence why He made things the way He did and guided the course of history the way He did. You can ultimately do whatever you want, but eveythings already been accounted for, your days have already been numbered,  your choices predicted and analyzed before time itself even existed, you wouldn't exist if your existence didn't serve some purpose, maybe that purpose is to live the archetypical happy righteous life, maybe its something else, maybe your life has just been leading up to this moment right now and you'll drop dead or die in some tragic car crash or robbery soon after. 

All we really know is that God loves humanity as a whole and wants the best for us and that all things work together for good. Freewill is, similar to like what you said earlier, a means to an ends of getting us there, through trial and error, happiness, pain, or whatever else it might be.

Point is, if you hate your life change it. Maybe you'll succeed, maybe you'll fail, that part is for God to decide.

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Anabaptism Appreciation Thread

Can we have an Anabaptism thread? Do we have Anabaptist brothers around here?

It dawned on me the other day that the very existence of modern Anabaptism is an irresistible sign of God's agency and will in history, even if you look at it with a "secular historian's hat" and not your own believer's conviction. Most Reformation groups had powerful temporal backing, even as they may have faced persecution at one time or another. The Anabaptists, on the other hand, have seen nothing but the sword. To know one's own identity as an Anabaptist, the believer truly gazes into the Martyrs' Mirror and becomes a stranger in the world, one who would not hesitate, by the Lord's mercy, to brave the possibility of being consumed to death in their zeal. This is a testimony this world needs. Selah.
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You raise a good point I had to double check and everything. But I'm neither morally outraged, nor have proof of being God's Chosen™ people by not having this baptism that every other sect seems to have. I think the best way to be cleansed of sin would be to stop with all of that sinning I keep doing. And be greatful for the opportunity.

Regarding the Amish I'm fond of them because of the way they keep the word. If you consider that a man is to swear no oath then having a driver's license, or a birth certificate, or your name on a bank account or a loan is a bit of a fiddle then isn't it? Nobody 'at the time' needed these things in order to ride a horse or in order to function in their everyday lives, which rather suggests that modern living has become this unnatural state and that the Amish are the only ones still governing themselves by this stricter rule of the law.

Of this sexual or physical abuse you report being visited upon those within the sect, which cases are specifically documented that I can look into? How many of them concern the patriarch of a family not doing what a bored/resentful/otherwise displeased housewife wants them to do, that perhaps is oversold or sensationalised? I ask because modern lawfare over sexuality is a known entity at odds with the idea of a woman being subservient to a man in the same way that a man is subservient to God. I can see why as well that modern ways of
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>>25639 (OP) 
Based and redpilled
>>25639 (OP) 
You can't judge truth by persecution. Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons were persecuted (legally, and violently, at times). They both exist today, despite having no state-level backing historically (JWs never did and still don't, but an argument could be made that Mormons presently have Utah; however, that was of their own making). They're both false, yet in the case of the JWs, they use the persecution they face as proof of their validity, as you're doing with Anabaptism.
>>25639 (OP) 
You shouldn't be proud to use the name of a heresy as though it somehow legitimizes it. Your movement has and is backed by jews wanting to splinter the faith and water it down by bringing up heresy that's been laid to rest for almost millenia as though its somehow new or hip. Repent.
Replies: >>25785
>Anabaptists bad uhm okay?
I am not one of them but the arguments against them are little and badly expressed, and currently much of their believes have been retconned into Concilium II, along with others from Luther.
Jews back them due to their extremely passive way of dealing with problems, mainly because i think they go full on with thinking this world is a test and the lord of it is the devil hence Hell.

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I was looking for a charity that helps the poor yet doesn't support abortion. It seems the three "Catholic" charities; Catholic Charities USA, the Society of St. Vincent de Paul and the Catholic Health Association supported legislation back in 2009 that would fund abortion. This is against the Catholic faith on two levels: #1 abortion, #2 socialism.  

And Peter's Pense - I'm still disappointed yet not at all surprised that Bergoglio (Who some believe to be the current Pope Francis) gave Peter's Pence to homosexual/transsexual prostitutes who were lacking in income because of the Covid shutdowns.  

While searching non-Catholic religious charities that are more Catholic than Pope Frank, I ran across this story 

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez claimed this week that her “Jewish brothers and sisters” believe killing unborn babies in abortions is a religious sacrament “according to their faith.” 
Incredible! She talking about sacrificing babies to Moloch. 

Is it really part of the Jewish religion, or is she lacking in understanding in a major way?

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Replies: >>24842 + 9 earlier
The talmud is what God and Christ hate, stop pretending like anything about it is scholarly or intellectual. They're dishonest evil scum of the earth. They were rebuked by Christ and it's why they still hate Christ and Christians.

FFS, this board is 50% fag kike feds. I can see RIGHT THROUGH YOU FAGGOT
Replies: >>24816
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>>22521 (OP) 
>I was looking for a charity
Anony, this is your first mistake. If you want to help someone, do it directly. You should not trust shady third parties to do it for you.
If they don't seem dangerous you can give them some food, bottles of water, blankets, warm clothing, or gift cards for businesses that don't sell alcohol/tobacco. Or leave it at their spot when they aren't there.
If you donate to charities like can drives, clothing drives, or food banks it's also less likely that they'll misuse your donation on something bad since you're directly giving goods and not money.
Firearms Policy Coalition? They openly and repeatedly call out how gun grabs disproportionately harm the poor.

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Hi anons, im a christian man on love with a 2D girl, i have pondered a lot over the years (5+) and readed to get to a conclusion and while i have mine i wonder what other christians might think, so here i am, by waifuism i simply mean loving and comitting to a fictional girl even if she doesnt exist.
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I've had some terrible experiences with women/girlfriends in the past, i'm not ugly but i attract terrible people or offend the people i like. I just wanted to escape to an internet fantasy land utopia, but my hidden dystopia is catching up to me, and i'm becoming more and more incapable of exchanging with people in real life, I have nothing to talk about other than offensive conspiracy theories and it clearly offends people i meet. No woman is as good as a comforting lie of a wiafu, but it's a dead end. I hope God can pull me out of this whole i've dug myself into.
Replies: >>25640 >>25647
>i'm becoming more and more incapable of exchanging with people in real life, I have nothing to talk about other than offensive conspiracy theories
Do you read the Bible? If not, pick it and start reading it. Then find a Church to go to in order that you meet people that enjoy reading the Bible as well. Connect with people over healthy topics, even if the conspiracy theories are real, God is more important.
Replies: >>25641
I do study the Bible a lot but there is a lot i don't know so i don't talk about it, i mostly hang out with Christians.
I understand these feelings all too well. I've been working my way out of a pornography addiction, and it's tempting to stay in cycles with this kind of thing.
Here are a few things that have helped me:

> Allow others to talk about themselves.
When I can't think of something to talk to people about, I let them do all the talking. It can be as simple as where they're from, what they do for work or their general hobbies. People right now are really eager to engage if you give them the slightest indication of interest, and it allows you to bounce topics off them.

> Reframe interests to sound more normie.
I have some conspiracy theories too. I'm a bit of a prepper, so I'm doing some food preservation, stockpiling and some other curious things. However, here's what I say:
> Oh yeah, I like cooking a lot! Canning is really fun too. I've been making a few jams and practicing my pickling; I'll bring you over a jar sometime! 

> Find events with active activities.
Going out to a location to do a thing with others gives you more things to talk about and focus the conversation on. Writing classes or a physical class or gardening club or anything. Make sure you are interested in it though. It sucks when you don't care to do something and are stuck for an hour.
Replies: >>26234
Just incase you're wondering what happened to the anon you replied to, i was baptized and reborn and became dead to sin, my porn addiction died in the lake i was baptized in. I was living in habitual sin, stay away from porn and media sex appeal of any kind. I was unable to be loving to people especially women, and i had a deep hatred of myself that i would not acknowledge. Therapy doesn't help, pray to God to delivery you from it.

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What is the worst hymn,
and what is the best hymn?

I have a feeling after hearing it the first time this morning this might be the worst.
And this is my favorite.
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Replies: >>25582 + 3 earlier
i hit puberty, i was more innocent,more motivated, now im not, but i have christ
Love this one
>>20860 (OP) 
I like Martin Luther's hymns. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZnbOj_r8LQ
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It's a little out-of-season right now, but I've always been fond of the Vidi Aquam. I'm not sure what my least favorite hymn would be without going for the very low-hanging fruit of contemporary music, such as that of Hillsong.

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Do you believe in Purgatory?
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Replies: >>25476 + 1 earlier
>>25466 (OP) 
I'll say it makes sense logically, how people who fall short of the glory of God can be in his presence. But scripture is mostly silent on it and the scripture used to support it apart from being apocrypha is contentious at best.
Replies: >>25483
In the Garden of Eden, Adam tried to cover his own sin, but God rejected Adam’s attempt, and provided him instead with a covering that required the death of an animal:
“[7] And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.”
“[21] Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.” Genesis 3:7, 21 KJV

>I'll say it makes sense logically, how people who fall short of the glory of God can be in his presence.
“[6] But we are all as an unclean thing, and 'all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags'; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.” Isaiah 64:6 KJV

“[21] But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
[22] Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
[23] For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;” Romans 3:21-23 KJV

“[6] Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God 'imputeth righteousness without works,'” Romans 4:6 KJV

“[30] What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
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Purgatory as defined by the Vatican is the fairest thing.
The concept of Purgatory, a place of temporal punishment, comes from 1 Cor 3:13, 15 and dates back to the Council of Lyons in 1245.

"10 By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as a wise builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should build with care. 11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. 14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames."
Replies: >>25583
That there, that's proof that you will feel morose when the house you tried to build for good retained some sin and was burned. What that is not proof of is a whole other universe on top of the canon/doctrine you have already established.

I get that fighting an Italiano-German emperor is scary but that doesn't explain why you would make a really big extrapolation doctrinally. You would think that I could find arguments both for and against, spoken succinctly and decisively in the meeting at Lyon with either evidence for their case, given the thing's significance. But all I can find reference for are those things decreed, and basically nothing for their evidence or rationale.

What was said after the fact? Did it become 'this must be right because the previous council said so'?

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What's the deal with christian infighting, when the world outside the churches is full of sin and of the deception of satan?
The first people who need christian correction, are the sinners, of which the unreligious out of ignorance about the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ are the most of.

Some talk about "ecumenism" between different branches of christianity. 
But what about having ecumenism in converting the enemies of the church of christ, converting the unreligious, converting the neo-pagans now coming to light, converting the victims of the deception of the modern anti-christian world?

Lets make the evangelism of the Word of God, be the real way to church unity and to the real church of Christ.

>“Behold, I am sending you like sheep in the midst of wolves; so be shrewd as serpents and simple as doves. 
>But beware of people, for they will hand you over to courts and scourge you in their synagogues,"
Matthew 10:16-17

>So the disciples said to one another, “Could someone have brought him something to eat?” 
>Jesus said to them, “My food is to do the will of the one who sent me and to finish his work.  
>Do you not say, ‘In four months the harvest will be here’? I tell you, look up and see the fields ripe for the harvest. 
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Replies: >>25556 + 3 earlier
The devil needs to draw people away from Christ, and the most effective way he can think of is to hide his wolves in sheep's clothing.
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Go and look at the modern Quakers on youtube. Go and look at anything said by an Anglican/CofE bishop in the last 20 years. Take a look at what modern methodists are up to.

The only reason I don't go around calling these people evil is because it's not effective as a strategy to go around calling these people evil. If you managed to make one final push to try to save even one of the CofE schools, the teachers' union would try to obstruct or sooner close down or sue you. Churchill fought most of Europe over lesser grievances than this. His grandson invites in all the mohammedians and believes in worse things than nothing.

These people sometimes, sometimes only rarely, openly state that they want to see you hurt or that they want to see you killed - mainly that they want to see you shut-up forcibly. You can't commune with them. You can't convert them. Their way is the law and your way is an illegal anachronism. If Protestantism isn't dead and doesn't deserve to be called as much and to their faces no less, then how should we go about arranging for 10 as likeminded as us to be present in the same room in one place together?

We're scattered on the wind and lost like diaspora. So I don't believe the quakers when they say that we need meetings. Seclusion is what I ask for and am occassionally given, and I'm glad whenever it is to have had any.
The simple truth is, at the end of the day:

Christ is everywhere, as is his father, as is his spirit. You can be Christian when you are rich and when you are homeless, with an untouched stone as an altar or a church. It does not matter the circumstance or the denomination. 

God makes the call, Jesus saves, you have your life to live according to what is sensible. You grow and as you grow you grow your faith.
Thanks, Pete/Pietr/Pierre holy man I thought I was going to hell, but then I don't see or intend the rejection of Catholicism as a sin. I know they're there for sure, but then it looks like a ritual larp and their confessional looks like an excuse to steal some more of my paving slabs. I'd never want into there, and I'd be without God if that's all there had been presented before me.

My entry point was Svedenborgsen, who was absolutely not a prophet by the way just a laymen preacher huffing some more burning bush, followed by the quakers and their long time ago insistence on doctrinal correctitude. Modern quakers are trash mind you it's the plain variety similar to the Amish you're going to want. You'd take the Amish over a Catholic anyday - you know you would, and it doesn't help to get jealous or pout or to declare you won because you're the only one who gets to interpret the rules. Let the Pope think that perhaps, but he's lost whole fleets of ships to "God said I'm right" before.

You do understand that even if America is a republic and not a monarchy that their bloodlines and origins go backwards into monarchist family trees and to kinglier times, right? They are about as damned as the Sultanate of Belize is holy. I'd go further while I'm blustering actually; I'd say that for anything you can not render 100% proveable, "swearing no oath" applies.

I'll argue with the quakers as well if what I h
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>>22934 (OP) 
  The conflict between different christian branches and denominations is mostly pointless, and result from political divides more than ideology. Each individual has their own relationship with God, and any 2 christians from not just the same denomination, but the same church community will probably disagree on major points. All religions are like this, not just Christianity.
  For new converts, don't obsess about what "the Best" book or practice is, just follow the general guidelines. You can always read and compare different versions if you want. Anyone who says having Bibles from other denominations is a sin is an idiot. Christianity is about knowledge, not ignorance. The same for prayer and church services.
  The real conflict christians face is atheism in all it's forms. The rejection of God leads to narcissism and hubris, which is the orginal concept of evil (it was Lucifer's sin after all).  Without God there is no real belief in morality, and all evils can be justified. Look at the over 1 billion people who have died the last century as a result of socialism and communism.
  Other religions at least believe in something. Even Muslims can be allies against atheists. The problem with pagans was that they believed in superstitions and used human sacrifice and cannibalism to solve simple problems.  This is why pagans converted to Christianity, they realized burying their child
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Take this test to see where you stand religiously.
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I think my values were skewed by opposition to state religion in general and persuasion/mockery over legal persecution. The one about Jews deserving everything bad that happened to them over the past X years would get a 'much' stronger answer if it was limited to ~1990 years. 

>the cow is a sacred animal

How should this be answered to reflect a view of "All life, including animals, created by God is sacred, but man has dominion over animals and the cow is only more special than other mammals in the sense that it provides useful goods."?
Replies: >>24955
Considering the question is clearly being asked in a pagan idolatrous sense, the answer depends on your view of the worship of animals.
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heres mine friends
Replies: >>25550
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Didn't know there were fellow Orthos here. If you got all those 100% on the first go I am jealous. Picrel my vanilla version.

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Here's a question that has always puzzled me:

So we all know that a good chunk of Jewish people rejected Christ and went on to become the modern religion of Talmudic Judaism.  But there were also a sizable chunk of the Jewish community that submitted to Jesus and became the first Christians.

However, if you asked me to point out where Talmudic Jews are, I would only have to point to modern Israel and the various diaspora Jewish communities throughout the world.  But if you asked me to point out Jewish communities or individuals descended from the original Jewish Christians, who have kept up such customs.... I would be at a total loss.  

So what happened to them or where are they?  Did the original Jewish Christians simply intermarry amongst the Gentiles to the point of being absorbed?  Or are their communities of Jewish Christians who can trace their lineage back to the original Jewish Christians that exist, but either don't have as much prominent PR as Talmudic Jews, or are simply not as numerous?

And I don't mean Messianic Jews either, since this group, from what I understand, consists almost entirely of either ex-Talmudic Jews, or Gentiles who have married into or adopted Jewish customs on top of a faith in Jesus.
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>but it doesn't change the religion
No, there's a very clear delineation between Judaism & Christianity in the New Testament. Christ Himself is the 'scandalon' (rock of offense in the Greek), and was anathema to the Jews. They literally killed Him over His claim to be equal to God the Father. 

With all due respect, I believe you're allowing your modern sensibilities to cloud your judgment on this matter. Judaism and Christianity are very distinct religions today, regardless of the deeper truths of God that extend back past before the time of Abraham. I'm also skeptical of the claim that believing Christians are somehow 'Israel' today. Jesus & the rest of the NT are quite clear that we are distinct groups, and that we have been "grafted in" as additions, not replacements.

Just ask an orthodox Jew what he thinks about Jesus Christ, Anon.  :^)

>'Judeo-Christion' is a political term not a theological one.
Fair enough. But I know of a lot of nominal Christians in the evangelical Protestant branch who claim that that phrase is both completely-real, and applies to themselves directly. There are plenty of Jews themselves who are promoting this idea as well.

Please understand I'm not disagreeing with you you Anon, 
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Replies: >>25523
>With all due respect, I believe you're allowing your modern sensibilities to cloud your judgment on this matter. Judaism and Christianity are very distinct religions today
I get what your trying to say. But I feel that you are mistaking what is identified as Judaism today, Rabbinic Judaism, with what was practiced during the time of Christ and the Apostles, ie 2nd Temple Judaism. The consensus is actually beginning to shift and show that during that time there were multiple sects of Judaism being practiced. The most well known sects being the Pharisees, Sadducees, Essenes, and the Christians. The Christians being the only ones that accepted Christ as the messiah of course. However, as the others fell away after the destruction of the Temple, Christianity survived and continued the 2nd Temple liturgical practices with some modification to place emphasis on Christ. Nowhere at this time was anything resembling what we know today as Rabbinic Judaism. Rabbinic Judaism came about much later primarily as reactionary movement against the growing influence of Christianity among the remaining Jewish population. There was no complied Talmud or Masoretic text at the time of the Apostles. And these texts would not appear for another 500+ years. The Judaism today is not the Israelite religion. The Israelite religion is Christianity. Another good video that debunks the claims of Rabbinic Judaism is Marching on Zion. 

>They literally killed Him over His claim to be equal to God the Father. 
That does not invalidate the fact that the religion was the same. It simply reiterates what we already know, that some Jews refused to see Christ as the messiah and the Son of God. 

>Judaism and Christianity are very distinct religions today
I agree with this, because Rabbinic Judaism is much younger and lacks direct continuity with the 2nd Temple. I just want to emphasis again that for the Apostles, while there was a change in some practices and views within the religion with the coming of Christ, the religion stayed the same. Our worldview is the same, and our worship is directed toward the same God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. We don't say that Abraham and Moses have a different religion from each other just because the pre-incarnate Christ revealed different things to each of them, or that their worship patterns were different, one with an altar outside and one with a tabernacle. So in that respect Christ revealing Himself to the Apostles doesn't change the religion to a distinct separate religion, it simply deepens the fullness of our religion. Everything that the prophets foretold, the apostles believed and witnessed through Christ. This was the acceptance of the faith of their fathers, that the prophets were correct and God is now among them.

>Just ask an orthodox Jew what he thinks about Jesus Christ, Anon.
An orthodox Jew practices Rabbinic Judaism. Again this is a much later reactionary innovation.   

>I'm also skeptical of the claim that believing Christians are somehow 'Israel' today.
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Replies: >>25524
Hey you seem to be quite well informed on these things and my interest is in the early Quakers, basically do you know if they have any biblical authority on refusing to call their worshipful meeting houses "churches"?

I know they have expedient reasons for doing so, but I don't really know if they have biblical proofs for doing so. I miss decorations and embellishments and big pipe organs. Also if you're going to have a structure that is not primarily used/owned for humble ploughwork then in what way is it any different from the other buildings whose main function is worship?

Semantic autisimo is not sufficient for me to hold an idea as a divine necessity.
Replies: >>25525
To be honest I am not very familiar with the Quakers. You may have to fill me in a bit on this, but I guess I would want to know how they are defining "Church" that they would refuse to use that to define their place of worship? Is it a reaction to the idea of a controlling hand of "Big Church?"
Replies: >>25527
Basically this. But they said people who were humble shepherds made better adherents and were used to prophetise more as the result so we should get back to that somehow. Funny thing is I don't know any Quaker groups who even in fine weather would take their meetings outside any more. I assume they view dedicated church buildings as just another ritualist extravagance like all the other Catholic stuff.

It's not an outrage or anything to come to this conclusion it's just that the idea of permanence of a meeting house where it's sole job is a meeting house makes it sound a lot like a church house doesn't it. A lot of them were just accomodating homes that a Quaker lived in, but I think if you're going to have a permanent structure it should be used for humble work foremost and praying in it should be it's secondary purpose. It's that or you're not respecting what the decree was trying to put across.

Modern Quakers are a co-opted white guilt activism worse than Anglican/CofE (maybe "no leadership lol" lets it all get in idk) so the plain conservative variety have retreated to the hills to form tiny pockets that barely hold onto continuity. I should see what happened to the Moravians and see if their outcome has been any better.

If I'm to keep on the topic of the thread and on the original followers from Judea, what other yard sticks besides faith and obedience can be used to measure belief in the fir
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