/christian/ - christian

>>26328
You didn't watch the video attached to >>26326 did you?

>>26327
>I made points, which have been ignored and not responded to [...]
Tracing it back:
>>26241
>Why wouldn't it fall under Christian liberty to offer a sacrifice which was outside the bounds of God's law (Lev. 10:1-3)? It was not wrong to offer sacrifice, but it is wrong to worship God in a manner of our own design rather than His.
I answered this here >>26243. Your analogy (equating Christmas with animal sacrifice) is too weak to support your argument because celebrating Christmas is not an active rebuke of his salvation like animal sacrifices are.
>anything which was not abrogated is in effect, and that certainly includes our duty not to add to the divine religion.
The OT has examples of assemblies, sacrifices, thanksgivings, and collective oaths by the better kings of the southern kingdom that don't appear to be expressly commanded in the law, yet apparently were not met with God's displeasure. If you want to classify these as some of the broader thanksgiving offerings permitted under the law, then believers can include Christmas under a thanksgiving offering/celebration, or under the numerous NT admonitions to charity, hospitality, and/or thanksgiving.
>We collectively remember what Christ did in the Lord's Supper. On Christmas we remember our love of material things.
His incarnation is remembered at Christmas. There's nothing wrong with taking a day to remember the incarnation as a history-defining miracle in itself: that God would take on flesh and dwell among us.
>That's not a holiday.
Well, that's how my church did it last month. We called it "Christmas" and everything.
>There's no scripture which commanded them to do this, but scripture was not the only means by which God spoke to the Church at that time. Given the fact that they indeed met on the Lord's day we can infer that they received a divine command to do so which is also inherited by ourselves through this text.
That's begging the question - a type of circular reasoning. You're attempting to prove that "anything not commanded is forbidden", and when presented with an example of them doing something not commanded in scripture, you allege it must've been commanded outside of scripture since "anything not commanded is forbidden" and the apostles wouldn't have done anything forbidden. You're assuming the truth of the premise you're trying to prove.
>It sends a message to the one who informed you that it's ok to worship idols.

>>26331
>Perhaps it's wrong for us to celebrate Christmas because it's causing you to stumble.
Good luck with that. I certainly don't think it's wisdom -- Biblical or otherwise -- to demand that every.single.individual. on the planet discontinue communally celebrating the birth of Jesus Christ (whether accurate timing as to the season or no), simply b/c an anon on a Taiwanese Basket Weaving Forum is dogmatic about it.

>>26330
>>26326
I decided to summarized the points in this video, since most people don't seem to be watching it. 

Christmas Trees:
The first mention of Christmas Trees in the historical record is the following
>"In 1561 an ordinance posted in Alsace declared that each burgher was allowed only one Christmas tree and that his tree could be no more than 'eight shoes' in height". - Tanya Gulevich, Encyclopedia of Christmas & New Year's Celebrations. p. 170
It is unknown where the Christmas tree came from, but in the presenter's opinion the most likely explanation is the following (which was also proposed by Tanya Gulevich):
>In the middle ages Dec 24 was the feast day of Adam & Eve, which was celebrated with a play
>During the seasonal period which Dec 24 is inside, the pine tree is the only tree avaliable due to being an evergreen
>consequently, pine trees were gathered for the play and decorated with apples which were an early form of ornament
>Afterwards the apples were eaten
>most historians that have written on this topic agree that Christmas trees likely morphed from these trees
The date of December 25:
>"The offical calendar of Julius Caesar marked [the solstice] at the 25th... The traditional pagan Roman calendar had left this period as a quiet and mysterious one, and flanked it instead with a festival of preparation and one of completion: the former was the feast of Saturn, the Saturnalia, in the days after 17 December, the latter the New Year feast... from 1 to 3 January." - Ronald Hutton, Stations of the Sun, p. 2

>>26343
I did watch the video, sorry for not commenting. Interesting points. What he said about people repeating a theory they heard online - that was me for awhile. Years ago I was convinced by a layman's website that Christmas celebrations evolved out of pagan traditions. The site's argument wasn't based on historical sources - just superficial comparison of traditions.

>>26334
I only meant the notion as a possibility. I didn't mean to suggest we should stop celebrating Christmas. Under certain unique circumstances, though, I might abstain for that reason (if I lived in Puritan New England, for instance). I'd bet Paul didn't openly work on the sabbath in Jewish neighborhoods during his missionary journeys.

>>24899
lol

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>>24574 (OP) 

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My denarium.

>>26191
While you can draw some parallels between Christ and the Ten Commandments (and manna) contained in the Ark of the Covenant, it's not a perfect analogy. 
-Christ is also the lamb of God who taketh away the sins of the world. The blood of the animal sacrifice was sprinkled upon the mercy seat, which was upon the lid of the Ark of the Covenant, whereupon God appeared in the cloud. This doesn't fit with Mary being the Ark. 
-Uzzah was struck dead for touching the Ark in an attempt to save it from falling off the cart and hitting the ground. There's no record of anyone being struck dead for touching Mary while helping her. 
-The Ark was carried from place to place and kept in the Tabernacle, and later, the Temple.
-Mary was never kidnapped as a spoil of war like the Ark was.
-50,070 men were smitten by the Lord for looking into the Ark (1 Sam. 6:19).
-The contents of the Ark remained there permanently (at least they were supposed to). Christ didn't remain in Mary as a permanent abode.

And you're looking back after two millenia. Would Joseph have even considered this analogy?

This >>26137 goes too far. I don't remember any scripture about Mary being prideful.

The scriptures reference Jesus' brothers and sisters (Matthew 12:46-49; and Matthew 13:55-56; Mark 6:3). Mary was a virgin until Christ was born. There's nothing untoward about su

>>26193
>"But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a Son. And he gave Him the name Jesus."
https://biblehub.com/matthew/1-25.htm

This language makes it quite clear that Joseph did consumate his marriage with his wife Mary. Just not until the baby Jesus was born. I honestly find this 'Eternal Virgin' thing pretty silly, regarding the woman. She certainly is the most blessed of all female homo sapiens sapiens, but she's still after all a woman. In her case she's clearly a believer and so she'll be in Heaven for eternity with God, as will every other Christian. Quite frankly, 'that's' her greatest claim to fame IMO -- that she's a Christian, a part of the body of Christ -- and will serve God forever (same as the rest of us actually-saved Christians).

Is it true that Catholics believe that Mary is without sin? if so why?

>>26236
Those who believe Pius XII was a legit Pope, yes. 
Those who understand that Pius XII was a Rothschild Puppet, and go by the faith of the council of Trent, no. They believe that everyone was born with original sin.

>>26236
>>26250
Martin Luther believed it too.
The reason is that it was an attempt to make ancient roman religion more christian by taking statues of Hera and turning them into Mary. Which was good enough at the time but not when it started to become more about worshipping said statues as if they were on pair with the Trinity.

>>23122
You did lie about me. You answer every argument I made by lying about me. 
You said I had autism. Lie. 
You said I was a professional Troll. LIE
You said I'm looking for ways CAtholism can be debunked. LIE. 
And you made you lies about what I said look like clipped quotes.
And you're lying in this post. 
Why should I answer your questions when you're just going to make MORE personal attacks and lie about what I said? 
There. You've done it. You got my goat by lying about me viciously. You have no spirit of God in you.  You've won.

I have become convinced that in many protestant religions, the sin of false witness is allowed especially against Catholics. 
Done with this. 
Christ isn't in some people, only hate. and they hope to bring you down to their level. Demons are in them. 
I've never had the Bishop's blow. There is no obligation for me to try and save the wicked from their demons.

>>23125
>>23126

Disappointing but not surprising.  As that old saying goes: "When people show you who they really are the first time, believe them."

Time and again you've shown me who you really are; whether you start threads like this under a false pretext, or you engage in slimy and slippery mental gymnastics, twisting of words, arguing in bad faith or projection.  Especially projection.  Everything you said in these two posts describe your tactics to a T, and you project them on to me.

On the bright side, in my discussions with you, by your behavior and tactics, as well as your arguments and espoused beliefs, I have become all the more convicted and convinced that Roman Catholicism is a false and demonic religion of Satan; not merely just misguided brothers and sisters in Christ.  

A religion so infected with doctrines of demons, that adherents like you are literally willing to defend it even as it damns them to Hell by made up sins beyond their control.  Think about it: you're literally willing to go to Hell for a "church" that flagrantly falsely holds you accountable for the sins of your wife and daughter, that you can't even control.  

You're clearly either a professional troll, or someone with severe mental issues, as these are the only two explanations that explain your obsessive, monotonous and infuriating behavior.  The same posts, the same arguments, the same phrases, the same pics, the same twisting and mental gymnastics and lies over and over again.   

Well, I'm done.  I'm tired of beating my heart against some madman's wall. 

>>23131
Prove I have autism. 
prove I am a professional troll. 
Explain how it was not false witness to provide quotes that I did NOT say. 
OR confess you bore false witness and stop pretending to be the victim.

>>23105

>You can, because they're alive. Or do you reject eternal life. 

This is what I'm caught up on.  From my readings it seems like when we die we go into the void until the resurrection at the end of days.

The only thing keeping me from standing on that wholeheartedly is that we see Moses and Elijah meet with Jesus on the mountain.

In revelation we have the saints groaning and wondering when they will be avenged by the Lamb, but they are asleep in some sense.

"

9When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne. 10They cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” 11Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothersc should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been."

It is very hard to find someone to discuss this with in good faith with diehards trying to browbeat others.

>>26065
You can't really "sell" your soul because our souls belong to God alone. What you can do is place yourself under great demonic influence in order to obtain something. When entering a pact with a demon, the demon is hoping to lead you to self-destruction by disrupting the communion you have with Christ. However, repentance is always possible up until you take your last breath. So remain in a constant state of repentance with a contrite heart and you will not have to worry. If you haven't been baptized yet, please do as that really pisses off the demons!

>I pretended I was in Satan's legal office with the hamburgler acting as a notary he seemed to somehow let onto Grimace walking past us I don't know what he was doing in Hell's legal deparment anyway I gave them my next door neighbor's soul and then I was riding my mobility scooter heading to Walmart when three men dressed as a chicken mcnugget started beating me up they called me a plump pee pee chunkolicious soyboy fatty, I was laying there on the ground crying when I saw there was a McDonalds bag it looked full and it had four hamburgers inside even an extra one from what I'd asked for and I read a note inside it it said; "Courtesy of mayor mccheese". I'm worried I was just a kid I didn't know and then the next day my neighbor died his recto-colonic exam had been wrong I think I'm responsible there was no other way it to happen pls resond

Your soul doesn't belong to you you are a rental unit anon - you've probably just put a few dings in there that'll be paid for from your deposit

>>26078
sounds like the dream i had last night

The only way you can sell your soul is if you succumb to the Devil's wickedness.
You seem to have repented, and I'm not sure how Devil Deal work (nor I want to know) but if there is no sign of paper or handshake or any possession involved then may just be fantasy like ghosts are

>>26062 (OP) 
>Worried I may have accidentally sold my soul to...
Your soul is not your to sell, you belong to God and you have been bought at high price.

Is Hanukkah even a religious holiday amongst the Jews or is it just a cultural celebration? In any case, to the OP's question of how should a Christian celebrate Hanukkah, I think one should take the opportunity to read the books of the Machabees.

>>26121
>Is Hanukkah even a religious holiday amongst the Jews or is it just a cultural celebration?
well...both.
Judaism is both a religion and a culture, Hanukkah for jews is both religious (how God was with them) and culturally (how jews managed to win the war).
Some orthodox christians celebrate Hanukkah as Jesus Christ being the candle that shines brighter than the other candles and so completed the holiday

>>26120
>According to John he went to the city during the day and had no problem about it
>no problems
>31 At this, the Jews again picked up stones to stone Him. 32 But Jesus responded, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone Me?”
Kek. The Jewish leaders were just as spiteful and hateful to Jesus Christ during that time (probably even moreso).  :^)

But fair enough, since the revolt allowed the Temple to be cleansed of the desecration by the Romans, it was clearly preparatory to the appearance of the the Messiah, the entire world's salvation, Jesus of Nazareth the completion of all the Law & the Prophets, the founder of Christianity, and the Glory of God throughout all eternity. Fair enough.

>>26108
That was not a genuine act of anti semetism

>>26135
He had no problem about Hanukkah as an holiday.
Jews had a problem with him.
But Jesus didn't say that Hanukkah was wrong to celebrate as if was man made and without fundements like Pharisees laws were

>>25994
>Brendan Eich
Another reason is that he was explicitly singled-out and targeted for attack, roughly during the 2008 election era IIRC (maybe it was 2012 instead?), by the Leftists and all the usual suspects involved with Marxism in the US. Turns out he made a US$1'000 donation to an organization that was staunchly pro-family (IIRC this was about the time the DOMA was under attack and eventually overturned by the sodomites, et al). Some journalist in the Jewish-controlled media got wind of it, and they proceeded to all dogpile onto Brendan because of his Christian, pro-family stance; beginning with a pro-sodomite dating site that banned Firefox browswers, and made a big show of doing so.

So, after 25+ years as a founder, CEO, and lead programmer, he stepped down from his own organization once several loud-mouthed zealots from within attacked him. These Communists & Jews all cheered about it at the time, but jokes on them.

He quickly began building a quite operation behind the scenes that eventually became the Brave browser & ecosystem for privacy. While everyone else has rushed to grovel at the invasive G*ogle, Brave has slowly built a resistance faction to that police-state-like evil. The Internet has been better because of this outcome ever since, though it clearly cost him at the time.

>tl;dr
'Bre

>>25996
Wow.
I've never heard about this guy but seems like he's quite important. FF went pozzed about right after he left, it seems. I used to be a long-time FF user but nowadays I always use Brave unless I for some reason need a very specific extension. On my tablet and phone, where FF is a nerfed down version anyway, I use Brave 100% of the time.

>>26139
Nice. I actually pay for their (somewhat more expensive) VPN service as well, US$9.99 . I figure it's well worth it to support something that doing real good on the Internet (for the time-being at least), for a service I'd want anyway. They're also far less -likely to be in bed with the 5 Eyes as well. Cheers.

1.) A minute spent on the internet is a minute spent away from God.

2.) Aside from divine grace; read point 1.

I think I've got it down correctly already anon.

The internet is too good at providing nerd media with sex appeal.

>>26005 (OP) 
Please don't doxx yourself on this forum, OP. At least find & use a throwaway email address if you honestly intend to communicate away-from-keyboard with ppl here. (Just use the email field in the reply systems.) Please remember, not everyone here may be kindly anons happy to help. Some may be more like Jews, and have nothing but ill-intent towards you. 

Good luck with your search OP. That's some beautiful land there in the Appalachians! Cheers.  :)

>>26006
You really think I would do that, just go on the internet and break opsec? If I get a bite, I will be dropping a public key that that they can encrypt their email with, preserving security. In any case, thanks for the concern, its just that with horror I realize that there really isn't a universal directory for Orthodox parishes.

>>26005 (OP) 
I am Orthodox but not in that neck of the woods. If you will be near the Hermitage of the Holy Cross, I would strongly recommend visiting. The monastery is near the western end of the state. Here is the monastery website:
https://www.holycross.org/

>Are the ROCOR and Antiochians old calendarists or something?
The vast majority of ROCOR parishes are on the Julian calendar unless they are Western Rite is my experience. I am not sure about the Antiochian parishes.

>>26008
I actually am already aware of them and subscribe to their channel on jewtube, but sadly they will be a good almost 2 hours from where I will be staying. Thanks for the information, thoughever!

☦️

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Codex Sassoon Heads to Auction
>Sotheby’s has announced the upcoming auction of Codex Sassoon aka The Damascus Pentateuch. They are dubbing it “The Earliest, Most Complete Hebrew Bible” and anticipating that, at $30–50m, it could be “the highest valued manuscript or historical document ever offered at auction.” From their description:

>The earliest, most complete copy of the Hebrew Bible is actually a book known as Codex Sassoon, named for its most prominent modern owner: David Solomon Sassoon (1880–1942), a passionate collector of Judaica and Hebraic manuscripts. Dating to the late 9th or early 10th century, Codex Sassoon contains all 24 books of the Hebrew Bible – missing only 12 leaves – and precedes the earliest entirely complete Hebrew Bible, the Leningrad Codex, by nearly a century.

https://www.sothebys.com/en/articles/sassoon-codex-oldest-most-complete-hebrew-bible

>>23737
Why is it called a Pentateuch if it's a complete Old Testament?

>>23737
finna whip this bad boy out and start quoting from it any time i get in an argument about religion.

>>23738
The original article I found about it seemed to be confused between two manuscripts, Sassoon 507 is the Damascus Pentateuch but the one being auctioned is actually Sassoon 1053. It also seems that someone took photos of it before it was privately bought:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Tanakh-MS-Sassoon-1053
https://archive.org/details/Sassoon_1053_Tanakh

Wasn't sure where to post this. This is a 6-hour Greek Bible study but actually covers a lot of deep material. It has an interdenominational group, with a Jewish guy, a Catholic priest, an Orthodox priest (Fr. Stephen De Young), a Calvinist, a Coptic Christian, and a few other Orthodox Christians. This 6-hour video is just the first meeting, and I am only 4 hours in, but I think it will address for sure some of the questions that OP asks as well bringing to light many questions during the 2nd Temple and elsewhere. It was from this video that I learned about Islamic mythicism and that Islam may really just be a heretical Christian with Muhammed being just a made-up character. They have continued on with a few more meetings. Not sure if they are completely done. But this is really good stuff. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSjatPfFKlI

>It is in God's hands because it's a part of His plan.
God is a slightly above averagely heighted white bearded man *who is outside of temporal laws*. Where everything happens all at once. Your birth, the life and death of your kin, your death, the next people living in your house, their lives and deaths, for as many millennia of our lives there are freeze frame snapshots of it all, all at once, happened all as simultaneously as each other. In a blink. The whole Mongolian Empire of Ghengis Khan does not even constitute one eighth of the blink. The level of awareness or acuity on these happenings bear in mind is accounting not only for normal reality, but the reality where one hair is out of alignment, and the one with a different hair, times as many variations as all opportunity allows.

To say that you don't get what God's plan is but are willing to follow it is fine anon. God has accounted for the reality in which you offer up complete and utter passivity. But God will not obstruct the results of that reality from you. This is how God's love is paternal instead of maternal. A maternal God would make man a God in kind and snatch the lesson of life away - lest your hands be vulnerable to the heat of a stove and you burn either of them.

If you don't understand these things then I'll try to help you have some more understanding because it's important. But I can't give you more piety because I haven't got any. Ask another anon for that.

>Whatever happens, happens.
It is what it is. Like I say. At the end of the day. Nothing changes. When all is said and done. Let the abortions happen. Let the gain of function research happen. Let it all be foregone, because God foresaw it to happen.

God also, equally, forsaw you doing some other thing. I'm just saying. What you wojak posters want typically is an excuse that is obfuscated somehow. I'm guilty of sloth and lust too m8, it is my fault. It is MY fault. God accounted for it sure. He did not make me do this. This kind of understanding, you ought to have it.

>There's nothing I could possibly do
Oh Ok.

>>21315
Though you raise up good points, there's no need to be so aggressive, anon

Personally I don't think OP giving up on romantic life is necessarily bad, as long as he remains open to it. Not everyone is called to be married. And not everyone is called to be married *right now*.

>>25800
> I don't really know what to do
We've all been there. The way she acted... that's unfortunately common. If you're not careful you'll end up feeling like if your love is something uncomfortable for the other person. You'll think (maybe not rationally, but you'll act it up) that loving someone is doing them a disservice. Please, anon, never believe that lie.

By distancing yourself right now you're doing the right thing. Yes, you love her: that's a good thing. Love is freely given, and that means she's not forced to love you back, she may well choose not to. You have to come to terms with that. It's painful, but it's through accepting suffering without becoming resentful that we grow.

And don't forget to pray about it all. God can teach more about love that any of us could ever do. We'll be praying for you too.

>>25821
You misunderstand me, I'm not throwing my hands up, I'm just saying let God guide me down the road I'm meant to walk instead of wasting time fighting the wind.

>>25824
Thanks, your words are helpful, what you said about not becoming resentful is true and it's something I still struggle with not just with this. There's much I still need to pray about.

>>25824
>there's no need to be so aggressive anon
Oh you're probably right, OP seems healthier than me I just thrive on highs all day. This one's supplied via a cross between wrath and excitement. Topic worthy of another thread.

But bear in mind I've seen people who say: "after all it is what it is. Just water under the bridge. Who knows except the wheel of time." They're usually the sort put in charge of a decision regarding the medical emergency you or a friend of yours is going through in the moment. Their passive platonic nature has others pay and then their explanation for it later is typically a similarly styled platitude. As I said I hope OP looks to be in the clear, but these people you cannot tell softly. They have got to be told hard.

>everyone having a calling
I'm still sore about that. If everyone has these callings, what of free will? Further, I hate my calling. I execute animals regularly. They've done no wrong but strive to live, but they've done it inside a house or a roof where they're a pest. My desire to help OP is in part to make my hands work constructively instead of having thrown things away. If I didn't believe I could change this I'd not lift my own weight up to do things.

As far as diagnosing or improving OP anon's prospects, I think most things have been conveyed already but he should make sure as well you've no

>>25831
>If everyone has these callings, what of free will?
your actions are your own, you can even resist the Holy Spirit (ive done so myself) but God knew beforehand everything you'd ever do and ever possibility, hence why He made things the way He did and guided the course of history the way He did. You can ultimately do whatever you want, but eveythings already been accounted for, your days have already been numbered,  your choices predicted and analyzed before time itself even existed, you wouldn't exist if your existence didn't serve some purpose, maybe that purpose is to live the archetypical happy righteous life, maybe its something else, maybe your life has just been leading up to this moment right now and you'll drop dead or die in some tragic car crash or robbery soon after. 

All we really know is that God loves humanity as a whole and wants the best for us and that all things work together for good. Freewill is, similar to like what you said earlier, a means to an ends of getting us there, through trial and error, happiness, pain, or whatever else it might be.

Point is, if you hate your life change it. Maybe you'll succeed, maybe you'll fail, that part is for God to decide.