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Onion may have brief downtime on the 22nd

Regarding recent events: >>>/meta/4978 

John 3:16 KJV: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


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30+ Bite Sized videos on the Shroud
https://www.youtube.com/@ShrewdManagerChristianity/videos

Silent Witness 1978 Documentary
https://rumble.com/v115zu2-the-silent-witness-a-documentary-on-the-shroud-of-turin.html

Ratio Christi presentation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xq5kHkoj904 (Part 1)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjMeEwWrAGM (Part 2)

https://shroud.com/

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https://satanslibrary.org/ExposingChristianity/EXPOSING_CHRISTIANITY_MAIN.html
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>>26567
>Hatred of men
But most non-Whites barely qualify as human. Is there any passage in the Bible that defines (hu)man as the modern mainstream definition?
>I briefly reviewed the website
Did you miss the fact that it is a barely concealed ploy by a gang of adult homosexuals to recruit teenage boys by demonstrating symbols that teenage boys usually like - Rebellion and Heavy Metal?

"Joy of Satan" is a gay recruitment program, and that should be immediately pointed out. In today's world, where Satanism and Homosexuality are both mainstream, acceptable and celebrated, it is frankly speaking obsolete.
Replies: >>26918
>>26914
>Did you miss the fact
Yes, since I am not familiar with homosexuality.
>these people say your Christ was a myth 
They are technically correct, the best kind of correct, but unfortunately, they do not understand that 'myth' doesn't mean 'outraged, bold-faced lie not unlike ones that Jews use', but rather something which has layered meanings - literal, moral, and metaphysical.
What makes the Bible different from pagan texts?
https://www.youtube.com/live/DaNkXn6Hf1Y?si=AMBmHawDBFMFOiUb

I am currently listening to this, but I wanted to share it because it is very insightful. Jeem always makes good vids.

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Due to several threads being dragged wildly off-topic by some anons' inability to hold themselves back whenever someone says the Pope is the antichrist or that Martin Luther destroyed Christianity, this thread will serve as a pseudo-containment thread for dialogue between Catholics and Protestants. Rules still apply in here, keep the thread on topic, do not make one-liner insults or ad hominems, keep it civil and respectful. Posts that try to start fights between Churches and drag the OP off-topic in other threads will be deleted, no matter how many there are.
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What the Protestant heretics do not accept is that the Bible as a set of inspired books comes from the Church and not the other way around, as they interpret it, that the Church derives from the interpretation of the Bible, which in their case degenerates into a myriad of sects since each one corresponds to a private interpretation of the Scriptures which in turn are translated at will to justify the chosen interpretation.
The Church is the sole depository, custodian and interpreter of the Bible. It is Sacred Tradition that gives authority to the Church and not the alleged arbitrary interpretation of certain passages.
Among many other heresies, Protestantism is impregnated with pseudo-scientific gnosticism since each sect believes to find a truth in the Bible that for those who do not accept it is hidden because they do not know how to read and interpret. All the biblical studies of these heretics ooze rationalistic exegetical presumption, but reason emancipated from the authority of the Church is of no use to them. It is satanic liberalism that is behind all this arrogance of claiming to know without submitting to any authority or Tradition.
To interpret the Bible without submission to the Magisterium is like pretending to sing a song having only the lyrics and inventing the music, supposing that they even possessed the lyrics, read translation, authorized.How many evils would have been spared to humanity and to the Faith if that cursed monk called Luther and his followers had not unleashed the liberal, Judaizing, immanentist, nominalist and relativist beast! By far the principle of "Sola Scriptura" is the most dissolving and demolishing for Christianity.
On the other hand, this rationalism of scrutinizing the Scriptures and extracting everything from them is simple emulation of Judaism, and therefore Judaization, since in reality Protestantism finds its archetype in the rabbi and in the synagogue consecrated to ruminate the Torah and the Talmud until learning them by heart. The Protestant does not feel secure in Tradition and needs to rationalize his faith and therefore imitates the Jews. In fact, Protestants have assumed as canonical the same books that the Jews include in their Tanach.
Protestantism as a whole is the great Jewish subversion within Christianity, it is known that the Reformers consulted the rabbis about the bible and its interpretation and that many humanists and translators of the first bibles were marranos (jews that said they were christians to avoid persecution).

- Hypermonotheism. Relative in the case of the Protestants who of course are Trinitarians, but have eliminated the cult of the saints and the Virgin.
- Veneration of "the sacred book" (Sola sriptura). One such sect claims that the authentic bible is the King James Bible, in English. Sounds to me like the copy of the Koran that has been in heaven since the beginning of time, "begotten, not created". Otherwise, the good King James was accused of crypto-Catholicism
- Association with political power. Protestants created national churches, such as the English one, in which the head of state is also head of the national church. A theocracy, at least potentially.
- Predestination. This is not a trivial coincidence, which leads to abandoning Charity and to favoring disoriented fanaticism.
- Disintermediation, rejection of the mediation of ecclesiastical hierarchies in the interpretation of sacred texts. Protestants suppose that the Holy Spirit will inspire the reader of these texts, written thousands of years ago, in other languages and circumstances.

 Protestantism, in distancing the presence of God from temporal life, did not begin by denying the divine derivation of the royal power then recognized, but favored the idea that this power was, yes, by the will of God - "God chooses the King" - but that such a choice had no transcendence, so that the King chosen by God did not have to rule as a divine vicar, but by his absolute will: "God sets the King, but the King sets the law" is the formula of absolutism. In this way, between God and the actual law, the omnipotent will of the King was interposed. And this absolutism derived from the Protestant heresy was easily transferred to the democratic powers that took the place of ancient monarchies, with the aggravation of totally dispensing with the divine origin of power, since the will of the people came to be divinized, replacing the will of God.

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I love my Protestant brothers. The only time I feel like we are speaking in two different languages and I feel frustrated are those Evangelical Protestants that take a dispensationalist view. I feel like that creates some very overt theological breaks that make it hard to come to mutual understandings.
What's the deal with the pope saying that every religion is a way to arrive at God?
Not interested in slapfighing, just want some info from Catholics.
Replies: >>27001 >>27002
>>27000 (checked)
He actually means every religion is a way into his bank account.
>>27000
But this is literally the thread for slapfighting

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Anabaptism Appreciation Thread

Can we have an Anabaptism thread? Do we have Anabaptist brothers around here?

It dawned on me the other day that the very existence of modern Anabaptism is an irresistible sign of God's agency and will in history, even if you look at it with a "secular historian's hat" and not your own believer's conviction. Most Reformation groups had powerful temporal backing, even as they may have faced persecution at one time or another. The Anabaptists, on the other hand, have seen nothing but the sword. To know one's own identity as an Anabaptist, the believer truly gazes into the Martyrs' Mirror and becomes a stranger in the world, one who would not hesitate, by the Lord's mercy, to brave the possibility of being consumed to death in their zeal. This is a testimony this world needs. Selah.
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>>26989
Yes, persecution is a necessary condition of truth (John 15:18-20), but it is not a sufficient condition. If the world loves someone, then that would indicate that he doesn't have the truth. But the reverse is not always true: persecution alone is not sufficient proof that someone has the truth. The world is full of tribes and factions that are persecuted - it doesn't mean that they're all true. If it did, then Buddhists are true because they were persecuted by Hindus; Hindus are true because they were persecuted by Muslims; Muslims are true because they were persecuted by communists in Cambodia; communists are true because they were persecuted by western governments in the 20th Century; etc...
Replies: >>26996
>>26993
>The world is full of tribes and factions that are persecuted
The world hates Christ without a cause John 15:25. Lets go down your list and pick it apart one by one. Buhdists and Hindus are essentially the same thing. Buhdists were the original hindus and their economy and culture were upheaved by arabians as the arabians lusted after their riches. Indian hindu's were persecuted by arabian muslims because of the love of money, india was one of the wealthiest nations at the time of their invasion. In modern times they are at peace. In modern times they do not invade as india is a much poorer country. The muslims in Cambodia were persecuted by the vietnamese for invading their society as to destroy it and steal their stuff.

>communists are true because they were persecuted by western governments in the 20th Century
Do you have any proof of this? Western nations controlled by the ((( chaldeans ))) are far more communial and controlling of their economies then any soviet bloc nation was. 

Its very easy to see if the warring is because of lust or some carnal reason. The hard part is seeing if the persecution is because of some carnal reason or is without a cause. Did the neighboring states to where the mormon's settled in Utah like Missouri, have a cause to drive them out? They were of the same tribe
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>>26996
There was truly no just cause to hate Jesus. But you can't interpret "without a cause" in the absolute sense, because scripture does list wicked causes for which evil men persecuted Jesus:
>"For he [Pilate] knew that for envy they had delivered him [Jesus]." Matthew 27:18
>"If we [chief priests and Pharisees] let him [Jesus] thus alone, all men will believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation." John 11:48
In those two scriptures are listed envy, fear, and possibly greed and lust for power (worry over "their place" being taken away). Pilate ordered the crucifixion because he was afraid for his own life and position:
>"And from thenceforth Pilate sought to release him: but the Jews cried out, saying, If thou let this man go, thou art not Caesar's friend: whosoever maketh himself a king speaketh against Caesar." John 19:12

I don't want to go down the rabbit hole of historical argument because, like you said regarding the Mormons - it was just to serve as an example. I'm having trouble following your point. Could you be more explicit? Are you arguing that Anabaptists are persecuted without any cause whatsoever, and that is sufficient proof that they hold the truth?
Replies: >>26999
>>26998
<There was truly no just cause
You are adding words that were not there. Down the list we go again
In Matthew 27:18 the crowd had delivered Jesus unto Pilate for persecution, a democratic act by the way. Is envy a cause? To envy is to be jealous. Is jealousy a cause to hate a man? Hate is to hate a man. Envy is to be envious these are feelings not the feeling or action of hate. In John 11:48 you are putting words there that are not there, not once does it mention fear. Its more of a matter of fact statement. If anything you could argue that its a statement of greed of their positions. For the romans would have taken the chief priests and the Pharisees positions away.

As for the john 19:12 quote, Pilates sense of mind was to release Jesus not to hate Him as its heavily implied Pilate actually supported Jesus and did not hate Him in later verses e.g John 19:14-15
>And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!
>But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Cæsar.

>Are you arguing that Anabaptists are persecuted without any cause whatsoever
Kinda sorta no and yes. Like in the example I gave not everyone is born after the Spirit e.g Ecclesasties 3:18-21. So there are those who can not recieve the things of God 1 Corinthians 2:11-14. Therefore they are of the world and would have a cause to war with eachother.

That is completely different then some carnal person without a spirit or some completely carnally acting person with a spirit manifesting the mystery of iniquity and pursueing a born again with a spirit disciple of Christ who is acting and thinking spiritually.

>and that is sufficient proof that they hold the truth?
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I'm going to spam some essays you will find offensive and edifying in this thread. This will be my containment thread. If you delete it I might start responding to seperate queries in other threads. I might do that anyways. I think the original author of these essays are dead. I'm backing them up in the deepest parts of the internet just in case.
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>>26969
>That would mean that for a long time (anywhere up-to 1600 years), Christians didn't have a copy of the NT without error
Wouldn't be anything new under the sun. After all, having the Christ and the prophets, yet erronously following after only what they wanted to hear out of the original Bible, a.k.a. the Living Word of God, a.k.a. Christ Jesus, is what most of ancient Israel does throughout most of the Old Testament.
>>26972
<Rabbinic Jews are not part of Israel
Your statement is a contradiction if it made any sense at all. Israel is defined in Genesis 32:28 as
>And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.
So a descendent of Jacob is an Israelite, a son of Israel. Now read Genesis 14:13
>And there came one that had escaped, and told Abram the Hebrew; for he dwelt in the plain of Mamre the Amorite, brother of Eshcol, and brother of Aner: and these were confederate with Abram.
So Abraham and his sons, such as Isaac and Jacob, are hebrews. All the sons of Jacob, Israelites, are hebrews. Israelites therefore are Jews due to Jeremiah 34:9
>That every man should let his manservant, and every man his maidservant, being an Hebrew or an Hebrewess, go free; that none should serve himself of them, to wit, of a Jew his brother.
Jew is used synonymously with Hebrew in this context. The only situation I can even dream up to justify your idiocy is someone who was a descendant of Ishmael but not a descendant of Isaac after the split between the people of God and the rest of the world with Jacob e.g Galatians 4:22-28. They would be a Hebrew but not a Israelite neccessarily. Atleast 
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Replies: >>26975
>>26974
A whole lot gibberish for saying nothing at all. I am not convinced by your arguments and will continue on using Israel for the Church and Rabbinc Judaism for the synagogue of satan.
Replies: >>26976
>>26975
If you are not convinced by the word of God in Hebrews 11 that Abel and Noah and Abraham are saved. How do you justify writing thus?
>that came to be part of Israel from that time on still follow the faith of Adam, Abram, Isaac, and Jacob.
If you were serious in your conversation you would be saying "follow the faith in Jesus Christ." Further more "Judaism" is not a word in the word of God it is a word the kikels, specifically the IDF, invented to confuse people. I am not sure what you are talking about when you say "Judaism" could you clarify what you are talking about? Preferably with Biblical sources
Replies: >>26977
>>26976
You are putting words in my mouth in again. Following the faith is following Christ, the head of the Church, Israel. I have said that multiple times. Maybe this might benefit you.
https://rumble.com/v240ex6-marching-to-zion.html

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Curious fella here
IMO the bible seems to be pretty clear about it's position about Idolatry:

"You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below.  You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me"
Exodus 20:4-5

"You saw no form of any kind the day the Lord spoke to you at Horeb out of the fire. Therefore watch yourselves very carefully, so that you do not become corrupt and make for yourselves an idol, an image of any shape, whether formed like a man or a woman, or like any animal on earth or any bird that flies in the air, or like any creature that moves along the ground or any fish in the waters below. And when you look up to the sky and see the sun, the moon and the stars—all the heavenly array—do not be enticed into bowing down to them and worshiping things the Lord your God has apportioned to all the nations under heaven. But as for you, the Lord took you and brought you out of the iron-smelting furnace, out of Egypt, to be the people of his inheritance, as you now are."
"Deuteronomy 4:15-20"

If the bible is clear about its position on idolatry, why do some Christians (Catholics) venerate Mary? From what I've heard from a few Catholic friends, it's different from idolatry as the act of veneration is only to be applied to holy objects/in
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Replies: >>26948 >>26951
>>26947 (OP) 
I think the Scripture makes it rather clear when it is read within its context. What were the Israelites doing at the time of these passages? They were turning to the pagan idols, the fallen angels, or they were attempting to create a false god in which to worship. Scripture is not against images or art because we know what was described within the Holy of Holies and upon the Ark of Covenant. The issue is the inversion of worship. Whereas God creates man in His image, the pagans create their gods in man's image. They carve up and make an idol in which they think that their god will reside as if trapped and answer their bidding, not unlike the tales of the genie in the bottle. The God of the Israelites was the complete opposite. He chose where His dwelling place would be and would not attempt to be contained, and much wrath would come if one did so. An example is the capture of the Ark and the misery that followed it from city to city.

Worship as patterned upon Heaven is always given to God alone. Veneration is simply a deep respect or reverence for holy things. Mary, as seen through Catholic and Orthodox lenses, is the Theotokos, the Mother of God. Something even Luther had no problem with. We give a great amount of veneration to her because she is the new Ark of the Covenant, the new Eve. The only groups of Christians who do not believe in the veneration of holy persons or o
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>>26947 (OP) 
Being far more carnally specific then the above poster. Look at the catholic's leaders head peices/hats. Notice how it looks like a fish with its mouth open. Now go read Judges 16:23, 1 Samuel 5:1-7, and the wikipedia page on dagon. Now go look at pictures of the vatican. Ask yourself why there is so many images of random things unrelated to the Bible in the vatican and start looking into the meaning behind the images. Now go a step further and look at every depiction of Jesus ever and compare it to Revelation 1:12-18

Let me surmise it simply; maybe at one point the universalists were actually a sect of Christianity, maybe they weren't. But nowadays their leaders are clearly dagon worshippers with imagery of babylonian talmudic origin mixed in. Also its a terrible idea to seperate Christians from another by labels e.g 1 Corinthians 3:1-5
>AND I, brethern, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
>I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither now are ye able.
>For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
>For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollo
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>Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ
Should be
>Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
My spelling is absolutely terrible. the above should be 
>AND I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
>I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
>For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
>For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
>Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?

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This thread is for discussion and the sharing information critical of evolution, old earth, attempts to allegorize the early chapters of Genesis, etc.

 I will be posting some basic info critical of (Neo-)Darwinism shortly.
418 replies and 104 files omitted. View the full thread
>>26837
Pretty much, when you think about it. Since the historicity of Christ, the early church, and the events of the OT grow stronger each day with modern archaeology, most atheists are left with attempting to attack the base of the Jenga blocks to topple the tower. But doing so is futile since they can't disprove what we already know happened.
>>26837
I say no because you have the really common (and autistic) argument that "believing in God used to be reasonable, but now we have Science(tm)" which is difficult to decipher as to what that's even supposed to mean, let alone connect it to something so specific.
Replies: >>26868
>>26822
Documents were never dated that way even by secularists because at best that would only give you the age of the materials not the text.
>>26849
So, would it be best to frame it instead as a clash of opposing epistemologies? Empiricism versus rationalism.
>>24165
The Septuagint hands down. Required viewing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VI1yRTC6kGE

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Here we discuss the writings and ideas of:

C.S Lewis
J. R. R. Tolkien
G. K Chesterton
Charles Williams
And all the host of them!

Have you been reading anything by them lately? Speak about it

"The Blessed Evangelist John lived at Ephesus down to an extreme old age, and, at length, when he was with difficulty carried to the Church, and was not able to exhort the congregation at length, he was used simply to say at each meeting, My little children, love one another. At last the disciples and brethren were weary with hearing these words continually, and asked him, Master, wherefore ever sayest thou this only? Whereto he replied to them, worthy of John: It is the commandment of the Lord, and if this only be done, it is enough."
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>>26892
I have never heard it ever enterained anywhere that he held any inclination of gnostic thought. The problem with being creative is that people will see whatever they want within your work despite what you intend.
>I have never heard it ever enterained anywhere

A quick search could easily show you it is a pretty old topic in multiple languages.
Replies: >>26900
>>26898
 A quick Google search could reveal many things and yet not make it a mainstream suggestion.
Replies: >>26915
>>26900
>I need things to be in the mainstream in order to consider them
May I suggest returning to cuckchan or plebbit?
Replies: >>26917
>>26915
Do you need an echo chamber?

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507 years since the breakup
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Five hundred years is a long time to be separated from family. You should make up and return to them, Luther-kun.

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After going through some ideas in the meta thread, one that I've been considering a lot lately is creating a dedicated, stickied thread that acts as a guide for anything and everything Christianity. This includes different versions of the Bible, texts from Church fathers and scholars, literature, education material, films, TV shows, music, podcasts, everything that would be beneficial to both old and new believers alike. Each of it will be organized in one very large thread for easy browsing. And that's where (You) come in.
If you have something that falls into any category listed above (and then some), post it here.
>If you have a link, post it along with a working archive (VERY important. Once it's on the Internet, it's there forever, until it isn't.). Use a website like https://archive.fo/ to check for and make backups.
>If it's an image, document, or audio/video file, post a link to it and post the file in the thread as well. I will work on getting these archived somewhere like Mega that allows playing them back in the browser. You may download YouTube videos using ytp-dl or through various Invidious instances (https://invidio.us) that allow downloading.
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>>25918
Nice
>>25918
Broom of destruction +1
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Christian Book Collection Downloads

https://archive.org/details/@christian_book_collection
The_Breached_Dam.pdf
(1.8MB)
17455197-journal-for-the-study-of-the-historical-jesus-on-richard-carriers-doubts.pdf
(816.6KB)
Richard Carrier peer review academic rebuttal. Use when that brit schizo spams his book on 4chan

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