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John 3:16 KJV: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


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Talk about 'WHOLESOME' shows and 'WHOLESOME' cute waifus.
This thread is NOT allowed to become a borderline /a/ exclave.
Posts advocating for yuri/shota (aka homosex) and other degenerate animes are NOT allowed.
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>>26626
>Ergo Proxy
I think I'm long overdue for a rewatch of that one. It was one of my favorites when I got into anime while I was still in high school.
The theme of Madoka Magica reminds me of Matthew 16:23. But is such anime ok? Is it respectful enough? I worry that it isn’t.
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>>26632
I think it's soulful and doesn't promote evil with its themes.
This scene made me think of the love Christ has for us always, even when we mistakenly can't see it or feel it.
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Did you watch any good shows this season, /christian/? Were there any gems, hidden or otherwise? Did you check out "studio apartment, good lighting, angel included," which, as far as I can tell, is a slice of life/romance show with an angel as a heroine? Maybe this place isn't the right audience for it.
Replies: >>26699
>>26691
Haven't seen much of anything lately anon, been revisiting old stuff seeing if they still hold up, that new deer anime though looks goofy and maybe worth a watch

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Due to several threads being dragged wildly off-topic by some anons' inability to hold themselves back whenever someone says the Pope is the antichrist or that Martin Luther destroyed Christianity, this thread will serve as a pseudo-containment thread for dialogue between Catholics and Protestants. Rules still apply in here, keep the thread on topic, do not make one-liner insults or ad hominems, keep it civil and respectful. Posts that try to start fights between Churches and drag the OP off-topic in other threads will be deleted, no matter how many there are.
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>>26615
>Yeah, original sin and sacrifice
So you reject the entire religion, in other words
>The idea of a blood debt that must be paid is unsatisfactory since death is a poor arbiter of satisfaction, that is to say it doesn't offer any. If it did then those doing the reaping would surely receive it.
I don't know what you mean by this. If your meaning is that the satisfaction would be received by the slayer, then you'll be satisfied to know scripture says it was the Father who poured out His wrath upon Christ on the cross. 
>I do not accept the story that God booted us from Heaven in a rage
It was the garden, not heaven, but since you don't accept that maybe instead you'll accept that we all decided to leave the land of magical carebears? I mean why not? Since apparently what God said isn't the standard here, what Anon likes is the standard, you can just make up whatever ridiculous pagan nonsense you want. 
>Ordinarily I would think these things are fine and simply lost to allegory
That seems very convenient doesn't it? It isn't you and your emotions that are wrong, it must be God's word that got it all wrong. 
>which is another aspect that I don't understand.
There is a BIG difference between "I don't understand" and "I don't beli
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why is it so hard to pick a denomination
i just read through this entire thread in one sitting and all im getting is that protestantism is wrong because it doesnt trace back to the original church but the current catholic church is also wrong because it's practices are heretical, with different anons saying that it became heretical at different points but not mentioning any alternative place or method of worship to go that isnt heretical
what the fuck am i supposed to do, wheres the salvation?
The majority of this thread is just two anons getting in a galaxy-sized argument with each other where nobody wants to admit they're wrong (i.e. 99% of arguments on the internet). Ultimately Protestants and Catholics primarily disagree on sacraments and the nature of salvation, but the most important part is the belief in Jesus Christ as God's son and savior. The Apostle's and Nicene creeds lay out the foundation of Christianity, that is what you should believe in first and foremost. Start from there.
Replies: >>26656
>>26649
Religion is a set of beliefs and practices. Christianity is, first and foremost, a relationship with the Resurrected God, with Christ. Sure, from that relationship a set of believes and practices inevitably emerge, but that cannot be the core. The debate about Prots VS Caths seems of utmost importance till you go out to the real world and get to see how bad things really can get (and sometimes, how beautiful too). Do I, as a Catholic, still wish for every Christian to be once again reunited in one single Church? Sure. But that should never make a a brother in Christ my enemy.

The fact that this thread is just two people and the rest of us can coexist nicely (for the most part) in the rest of the board does give me some hope.
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What the Protestant heretics do not accept is that the Bible as a set of inspired books comes from the Church and not the other way around, as they interpret it, that the Church derives from the interpretation of the Bible, which in their case degenerates into a myriad of sects since each one corresponds to a private interpretation of the Scriptures which in turn are translated at will to justify the chosen interpretation.
The Church is the sole depository, custodian and interpreter of the Bible. It is Sacred Tradition that gives authority to the Church and not the alleged arbitrary interpretation of certain passages.
Among many other heresies, Protestantism is impregnated with pseudo-scientific gnosticism since each sect believes to find a truth in the Bible that for those who do not accept it is hidden because they do not know how to read and interpret. All the biblical studies of these heretics ooze rationalistic exegetical presumption, but reason emancipated from the authority of the Church is of no use to them. It is satanic liberalism that is behind all this arrogance of claiming to know without submitting to any authority or Tradition.
To interpret the Bible without submission to the Magisterium is like pretending to sing a song having only the lyrics and inventing the music, supposing that they even possessed the lyrics, read translation, authorized.How many evils would have been spared to humanity and to the Faith if that cursed monk called Luther and his followers had not unleashed the liberal, Judaizing, immanentist, nominalist and relativist beast! By far the principle of "Sola Scriptura" is the most dissolving and demolishing for Christianity.
On the other hand, this rationalism of scrutinizing the Scriptures and extracting everything from them is simple emulation of Judaism, and therefore Judaization, since in reality Protestantism finds its archetype in the rabbi and in the synagogue consecrated to ruminate the Torah and the Talmud until learning them by heart. The Protestant does not feel secure in Tradition and needs to rationalize his faith and therefore imitates the Jews. In fact, Protestants have assumed as canonical the same books that the Jews include in their Tanach.
Protestantism as a whole is the great Jewish subversion within Christianity, it is known that the Reformers consulted the rabbis about the bible and its interpretation and that many humanists and translators of the first bibles were marranos (jews that said they were christians to avoid persecution).

- Hypermonotheism. Relative in the case of the Protestants who of course are Trinitarians, but have eliminated the cult of the saints and the Virgin.
- Veneration of "the sacred book" (Sola sriptura). One such sect claims that the authentic bible is the King James Bible, in English. Sounds to me like the copy of the Koran that has been in heaven since the beginning of time, "begotten, not created". Otherwise, the good King James was accused of crypto-Catholicism
- Association with political power. Protestants created national churches, such as the English one, in which the head of state is also head of the national church. A theocracy, at least potentially.
- Predestination. This is not a trivial coincidence, which leads to abandoning Charity and to favoring disoriented fanaticism.
- Disintermediation, rejection of the mediation of ecclesiastical hierarchies in the interpretation of sacred texts. Protestants suppose that the Holy Spirit will inspire the reader of these texts, written thousands of years ago, in other languages and circumstances.

 Protestantism, in distancing the presence of God from temporal life, did not begin by denying the divine derivation of the royal power then recognized, but favored the idea that this power was, yes, by the will of God - "God chooses the King" - but that such a choice had no transcendence, so that the King chosen by God did not have to rule as a divine vicar, but by his absolute will: "God sets the King, but the King sets the law" is the formula of absolutism. In this way, between God and the actual law, the omnipotent will of the King was interposed. And this absolutism derived from the Protestant heresy was easily transferred to the democratic powers that took the place of ancient monarchies, with the aggravation of totally dispensing with the divine origin of power, since the will of the people came to be divinized, replacing the will of God.

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After going through some ideas in the meta thread, one that I've been considering a lot lately is creating a dedicated, stickied thread that acts as a guide for anything and everything Christianity. This includes different versions of the Bible, texts from Church fathers and scholars, literature, education material, films, TV shows, music, podcasts, everything that would be beneficial to both old and new believers alike. Each of it will be organized in one very large thread for easy browsing. And that's where (You) come in.
If you have something that falls into any category listed above (and then some), post it here.
>If you have a link, post it along with a working archive (VERY important. Once it's on the Internet, it's there forever, until it isn't.). Use a website like https://archive.fo/ to check for and make backups.
>If it's an image, document, or audio/video file, post a link to it and post the file in the thread as well. I will work on getting these archived somewhere like Mega that allows playing them back in the browser. You may download YouTube videos using ytp-dl or through various Invidious instances (https://invidio.us) that allow downloading.
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>>25909
>"22For I will rise up against them, saith the LORD of hosts, and cut off from Babylon the name, and remnant, and son, and nephew, saith the LORD. 23I will also make it a possession for the bittern, and pools of water: and I will sweep it with the besom of destruction, saith the LORD of hosts."
Isaiah 14:22-23 KJV
From the context of something God is sweeping with, I'd guess "a broom".

Whether my answer is correct or incorrect, it still helps my learning. When I come across a word I don't know, I take it as an opportunity to look it up (which I will do after I click 'reply').
Replies: >>25920 >>25921
>>25918
Nice
>>25918
Broom of destruction +1
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Christian Book Collection Downloads

https://archive.org/details/@christian_book_collection
The_Breached_Dam.pdf
(1.8MB)

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Questions that don't deserve their own thread.
You know the drill. Questions that deserve their own thread go in their own threads. Questions that don't go here.
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>>26612
A catholic one of course. I think the best edition is The Jerusalem Bible from Brouwer.
Would the Deuterocanonical books hold any value to me as a protestant?
Replies: >>26654
>>26653
I certainly think so. They are referenced in the New Testament, so you're only deepening your understanding of the text by reading them, even if you don't consider them to be inspired scriptures. Keep in mind, also, that most Bibles contained them, albeit removed from their place in the Old Testament and relegated to their own "Apocrypha" section, until around the 19th century when they started leaving them out as a cost-saving measure.
Would praying the rosary be beneifical to protestants, sans any reference to Mary?
Replies: >>26677
>>26673
You're more than welcome to pray the rosary, but since it's composed of either 53 or 153 Hail Mary prayers, I don't think you would get more out of it than simply saying 15 Our Fathers and reciting the Apostle's Creed if you excluded the Marian prayers.

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Post in this thread to share your current Bible reading progress and to be accountable before others in your study of scripture.

I have just finished Genesis, Matthew, and Mark.
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Replies: >>26665
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>>24554 (OP) 
I haven't read the latter prophets from Amos onward, besides the often cited verses like Zechariah 12:10. I'm gonna read them, then enjoy the Gospels again

I'm happy /christian/ is still around, it took some time to find it again. Have a good day Christanons
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>>26665
You too, friend.
I haven't really read the Bible seriously in years, front to back. The last time I did, I made it just about to the Psalms before burning out. I've picked up and read the Gospels a few times, although it's somewhat hazy to me. 
Recently I had to go to the psych ward. It wasn't fun, but they at least let me bring my Bible into the holding room. I didn't know what the future held for me, whether I would remain sane enough to be a Christian by the end of the week, but I took great comfort in reading the Psalms. I made it through about half of them as I waited to meet the psychiatrist, as well as all of Paul's Letter to the Romans. Reading Psalms 6 and 30 put me at peace for the first time in a while.

Psychosis is strong, but the Lord is stronger still. I should pick up where I left off.
Replies: >>26675 >>26676
>>26674
God bless you, brother. The Lord is stronger still. Thanks for reminding of Psalm 30.
>>26674
Good on you, hope you're feeling better. You may want to take a look at a Daily Walk Bible, or find an outline online for reading it over the course of a year, it helped me tremendously.

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It is no secret the Eastern Orthodox reject the Filioque of Rome. 
But what is definitive Orthodox statement of what exactly is going on in the trinity? The Catholics can point to Florence. Is there a similar Orthodox statement? 

Part of me thinks that had Florence not dogmatized the filioque as "one principle and a single spiration" The Catholics and Orthodox would've reunited under an agreement that each side had a permissible theological opinion. I mean, the ultimate reality of the Holy Trinity is unknowable. 

That said, is there any way to resolve the controversy without rejecting the other side as heretical? I see all over the place bickering over who is right and who is wrong. But never do we examine any potential compromises or solutions. 

Perhaps we could say the Father alone is the principle/cause of the Trinity. The Father however,  directs the Holy Spirit as Spiration to the Son initially, and the Son responds in like, unified spiration. Therefore, the Son’s presence to the Father calls forth the Spirit from Him, in a sense. It is by his eternal and natural and proper love as Father for Son that the Ekporeusis of Spirit from Father is begun. It is by his eternal and natural proper love as Son for Father, that the Son calls forth the Spirit from the Father. The Spirit’s hypostasis is sealed in its procession by His resting upon the Son. 

Or perhaps would it be possible for the Latins to revoke the dogmatic pronouncement retroactively as the Greeks never ratified
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>>23615
It also lends itself to the possibility of subordinationism and Arianism that the filioque is designed to exclude.

>>23616
>Grab a pen and paper and draw it.
It's just a matter of perspective. The Father begets the Son and the Spirit proceeds from the two as if a single principle. So if you didn't draw the relations as a triangle, but rather were looking at the situation head on, the Son being the very image of the Father, it would appear that the Spirit is proceeding from a single source. Our God is three-dimensional.
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>>23618
>from the two as if a single principle.
And we know from Florence, Latin principle = Greek cause.
Therefore
>from the two as a single cause
>From the [Father and the Son] as a cause. 
Therefore, the son IS a cause of the Holy Spirit. 

Which s EXACTLY what the Orthodox reject. They believe the father is the only cause. 
There is no way around it now. 2=/=1. 
Catholics would have to backtrack the declarative statement of a council ratified by the Pope 600 years ago. Which they cannot and will not do. 
If it were so simple as saying "from the Father through the son" we would've reunited it by now.
Replies: >>23622
>>23618
>looking at the situation head on, the Son being the very image of the Father, it would appear that the Spirit is proceeding from a single source.
Rev 22:1
Then he showed me the river of the water of life, bright as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb
>>23619
>They believe the father is the only cause. 
But do they actually, since they seem to believe in a variety of things so long as they disagree with what the scummy Latins believe.
>>23586 (OP) 
My intuition tells be the most humble answer would be something along the lines of: "God was vauge in the scriptures, we don't know how all of this works for certain.".

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Hey anons. After a long while in the desert outside of Christianity and God I've decided to climb my way out and begin reading The Bible and attempting to study theology and spirituality again. One of the art forms that's given me a sense of meaning throughout my life has been film. I've heard of some classic cinema that's Christian themed, but the only director who's discussed the faith has been Ingmar Bergman with Seventh Seal. 

I really enjoy getting personal recommendations from people but I also love the charts people make for  different subjects so I'm curious to see if there are any /christian/ film charts as well. So yeah, any recommendations for stuff to watch while I'm embarking on my spiritual journey would be incredibly appreciated! Thanks for the consideration, guys.
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Tarkovsky's films, of course. His entire catalog. All very russian orthodox.
>>26570
And all made under the sinister eyes of Soviet censorship. Amazingly, Stalker can be said to be about both the wonder of Creation and the danger of false gods.
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>>26570
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Hey anons, thanks for the replies!
>>26469
Yeah ive been recommended Pasolini's adaptation of Saint Matthew before, from what I've learned about him he's the exact opposite of a faithful Christian and 99% of his cinema is all over the place with stuff like Salo and Greek mythology like Madea. Kinda wild to me his Christian adaptation was so faithful. 

>>26570
>>26602
>>26582
Tarkovsky's films have been on my radar for nearly ten years, and while his stuff looks absolutely fantastic, its always come across really inaccessible for some reason. At some point i'll take the dive into Tarkovsky, but he genuinely's is kinda intimidating. Do you guys have any recommendations to start with him?

>>26559
>>26560
I second an explanation about Lady of Fatima. I'm specifically looking for art/classic movies heavily themed around Christian themes, history, theology, etc. I'm a huge film nerd, so movies centered around
Christianity and the Faith.
I was reading about the Left Behind series and it seems so insane and out-of-touch that I really want to see how bad it is (there was also a RTS video game that people got mad over because you can kill nonbelievers). Plus Nic Cage.
I don't like The Passion, I think it takes far too many liberties with scripture/historical accuracy and I feel that most Christians watch it for the same reason blacks watch 12 Years a Slave. It just makes me uncomfortable for the wrong reasons.

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This thread is for discussion and the sharing information critical of evolution, old earth, attempts to allegorize the early chapters of Genesis, etc.

 I will be posting some basic info critical of (Neo-)Darwinism shortly.
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>>24183
After considering a few events for what the 450 years was referring to, it feels like it would best suit the period from Moses' birth until Samuel began his public ministry after the Ark was 20 years at Kirjath Jearim in 1 Samuel 7. 80 years for Moses' life, 40 years in the desert, 8 years for Joshua's conquest, and 322 years of the Judges.
https://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/
I had an epiphany recently. Virtually all evolutionist arguments will inevitably allege that X trait of a creature developed for Y purpose, they'll pretty much always use the phrase "evolutionary purpose". What I realized is that when they do this, that means we win the debate. Because supposing that something has a *purpose* presupposes what? That it was *designed* for that purpose, not that the thing randomly magically appeared on its own for no reason. Evolutionist arguments actually suggest intelligent design and evolutionism is essentially an irrational superstition that unwittingly posits some kind of magic causes creatures to suddenly and fundamentally change when they "need" to. I think this is something to keep in mind when dialoging with atheists and something to pounce on whenever it comes up, so we can show them their worldview actually doesn't make any sense.
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>>25081
Yes, and this has long been recognized by researchers. Specifically within origins of life research, the concept has been derisively-termed 'The hidden hand of God', relating to investigators setting up initial conditions, etc. in their labs, that are completely irrelevant to the initial conditions on Earth's surface ~3.8Gya.

>when they do this, that means we win the debate.
Not quite that simple IMO. When men can look out at this vast and truly amazing creation spread out all around us, and still say unironically in their hearts 'There is no God!111', then you're dealing with a serious psychosis condition, indeed a spiritually-depraved one. No amount of argumentation, nor directly observable, objective facts are going to sway someone in such a state.

My recommendation isn't to focus on 'turning' the ones adamantly opposed to God (or indirectly to you for proclaiming Him), and rather focus on the ones who are unsure. They are far more numerous, and indeed far closer to God already.
Brothers, I don't know if the point's been made already in this thread, but when unbelievers attempt to use Darwinism as their excuse for unbelief, saying something like "I can't be a Christian because evolution proved it false", you can explain to them they're being irrational since this is a begging the question fallacy. As scientific arguments against Christian doctrine from evolution rely on secular presuppositions, and the ultimate presupposition of the argument is that the scientist has the epistemological authority to abrogate the scripture anyway, it is not an argument which could hold water unless Christianity is already false, since there is no good reason for a Christian to accept evolutionism. His argument reduces to "I don't believe in Christianity, therefore Christianity is false".

I had a discussion with an unbeliever yesterday where I pointed this out and his response was to claim "your religion doesn't get to be assumed at the outset". I directly refuted this error when he made it but after the fact I realized I didn't have to, since this was itself a trivial objection fallacy because he can refuse to assume our religion all he likes, it's still begging the question if his argument requires it to be false to function.

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CHRIST IS RISEN!
Happy Easter!
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Indeed. He is risen!
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>And in the end of the sabbath, when it began to dawn towards the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalen and the other Mary, to see the sepulchre. And behold there was a great earthquake. For an angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and coming, rolled back the stone, and sat upon it. And his countenance was as lightning, and his raiment as snow. And for fear of him, the guards were struck with terror, and became as dead men. And the angel answering, said to the women: Fear not you; for I know that you seek Jesus who was crucified.
>He is not here, for he is risen, as he said. Come, and see the place where the Lord was laid. And going quickly, tell ye his disciples that he is risen: and behold he will go before you into Galilee; there you shall see him. Lo, I have foretold it to you. And they went out quickly from the sepulchre with fear and great joy, running to tell his disciples. And behold Jesus met them, saying: All hail. But they came up and took hold of his feet, and adored him. Then Jesus said to them: Fear not. Go, tell my brethren that they go into Galilee, there they shall see me.
Happy Pascha to all who celebrate to-day!

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Thread for discussing and sharing literature relevant to the Christian faith.

I bought a copy of The Pilgrim's Progress, I read it years ago in high school and I really wanted to go through it again without staring at a PDF, and it makes for good reading before bed. I had no idea there was a part two in the story as well, where after Christian makes it to the Celestial City his wife and children go on their own journey to it as well. Apparently in high school we only ever read part one.

What have you been reading lately?
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Replies: >>25863
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>>25498 (OP) 
This has been a pretty good reference book for me: The Story of Christianity: Volume Number 1
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>>25856
>Would like suggestions for what to start next
I am just about to finish book 3 The Sword of the Lictor of the Book of New Sun series. It is a masterful series, the Christian themes are there but not in your face like the Chronicles of Narnia series, and are probably hidden a bit more than even The Lord of the Rings. Some elements do stand right out such as a lot of the characters throughout the story are named after early Christian martyrs and saints. So if you want a challenge I would definitely recommend this series but pair it with the Alzabo Soup podcast.
https://www.alzabosoup.com/

Another suggestion that I highly recommend is the book Laurus picrel. Russian author so it is heavy with Orthodox themes but it is such a wonderful read.
>>25863
Just bought a copy, I'll review it once it gets here in a couple weeks
>>25863
Came in the mail today, was not expecting it to be a textbook. I also ordered the first edition from 1999 that has volumes 1 and 2 combined, so I'll be reading this for a while. Maybe the scribbles and notes in it from whatever seminary student had to study from it 20 years ago will be helpful as well.
>>25863
I finished this a couple weeks ago, volumes 1 and 2 (one of the earlier prints from the 90s with both versions combined into one). It's very good, gives a very detailed overview of Christiainity throughout the ages. Shame that it stops in the early 90s though (my version at least, with the stained glass cover) but still a very good resource.
Currently on another non-religious book from John Taylor Gatto on the issues with modern schooling, then looking into something new and Christian-focused. I might try reading The Silmarillion again but there are so many names and races to keep track of it got really hard to memorize and I quit not even halfway through.

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