>>1873
>projecting but whatever
I have watched vtubers since the very beginning. I watch vtubers with anywhere from millions to less than a hundred subs.
>There are also many skilled singers among vtubers, not that you'd have any way of knowing that.
>Yeah, many try to go into singan, drawan and things like these and attempt to git gud. And yet most of projects like these that are a result of that are presented separately from stream, which is advertised as a main attraction.
Of course they are separate from a stream. It makes no sense to release a song as a stream. Vtubing is not married to streaming as its only possible format.
>You do not have them STRAIGHT FORWARD IMPROVE AT STREAMING using those skills as you have been claiming is their occupation.
Vtubers do karaoke and drawing streams all the time.
>They're streamers that sing, not singers. They're streamers that draw, not artists. Most can get better at skills, yes, but not using them in a stream. And while there are idorus that are into singan or drawan, the presentation part isn't even covered. The only popular one that I can recall that does presentation right is Melody and that's not even a jaypee streamer, that's a literal chaturbate camgirl - and she prefers to shitpost rather than attempt to git better on that front.
Some vtubers are primarily singers and/or put out single and album releases. Inuyama Tamaki was releasing music before she even become a vtuber and Nanahira has long been a famous doujin singer. Tamaki is also a published mangaka with an anime adaptation, Pochimaru is the illustrator for Okaa-san Online, and Shigure Ui is the character designer of Subaru (hololive). There are more examples like this.
>Yes, it's her streams about nothing and ARK, but she still does rip off pewdiepie and it's cancer, I don't know how you defend this.
Again, gaming and talk streamers are standard fare for vtubers. She is not doing anything out of the ordinary. I don't know how you can't comprehend this.
>So are you now expanding your crusade against all entertainers, just because vtubers will also get caught in the net?
>That's a really, really rad crusade, but mostly a simple comparison. There needs to be something that induces an impulse towards non-stop improvement of it all. Individual skills are fine, but most put on a show and don't practice how to do it better.
Where are you even getting all of this shit from? You barely know anything about vtubers. You're just throwing accusations at the wall hoping that some of them stick. There are hololive and nijisanji members who have literally talked about the practise they've been doing for live events.
>Since you don't know anything about vtubers, you are forced to make assumptions based on things you've seen elsewhere, without having any idea if they are even applicable to vtubers. And they're not. Vtubers do not function like movies or video games.
>Again, projecting, I've lurked enough to know what's what.
Again, I have been watching vtubers since the beginning and have watched a very wide range of them. You don't get to tell me that I'm projecting when you only have some passing knowledge of Coco and Melody.
>You have "vtubers" - maybe even streamers in general - playing nice excessively to maintain a healthy state of comfy in the chat with clear iron-clad rules that people delet you for. This is celebrity worship, you cannot really talk to them or challenge them outside of their comfort zone, just like with nearly all streamers. If you can't really talk to people without constraints like that, if you can't tell them "your opinion on X is wrong, here is why" and potentially even change them, what's left is only shitposting. Even good entertainers know how to respond to a good challenge.
Why would a streamer not want to maintain a good chat? For what reason would anyone go out of their way to produce a bad environment? You are grasping at straws like a lunatic. Streams are not debate contests where you go to "challenge" the streamer over something. This isn't Destiny. You are complaining that vtubers are bad because they don't adhere to some alien culture that you're arbitrarily expecting them to follow.
>Their activities are driven by money and influence. Smaller ones are okay, but somewhat boring and typically bring almost nothing new to the table. There's outliers that do things like play mahjong, as if that's a specialized skill with nip obsession with it, but that's it.
You make these banal observations and twist them into something supposedly malicious. Of course most vtubers are trying to make money and make themselves better known, just like most people on youtube and twitch. This is not malicious just because you want to pretend that it is. And stop pretending like you actually watch vtubers.
>And then they fail to improve on presentation.
Their 2D and 3D models are upgraded and they get new outfits, intros and BGM.
>This is your label. I'm someone with a strong opinion that chose to entertain your argument. No more and no less. I can call you a nigger right now and that would be a label, but it still wouldn't be true unless you were quite literally black.
It's not my label, it's the truth.
>I've listed plenty of reasons, but you've refused to acknowledge most and/or dismissed them. It seems you can't make the illiterate react to writing until you make them mad with careful scribbles.
You have no reasons. There is nothing wrong with drawing. You are just looking for any excuse you can to attack vtubers, no matter how absurd.
>Vtubers are entertaining. Many of them are good at drawing or singing. Some are professionals. Skilled gamers can be found too.
>Yet most are average and similar in their skills. Some are even similar in their characters.
There are over 13,000 vtubers ranging from hololive to literally whos with two viewers. Again, grasping at straws.
>Most of you are prone to confusion on the matter.
The only people I've ever seen who are confused on the matter are idiots on reddit.
>You refused to argue
>You have not responded to any of my core arguments
You are lying again. Why do you do this?
>If it was, it'd be worse. Read carefully - it's company policy to maximize donations. That makes it e-begging, but not directly, it's the company that begs through the vtuber. As for small ones and ones that don't have partnership, they're just irrelevant.
It's not begging.
>Well, yeah, I've mentioned Eilene's skit mafia already, though the bandwagon really took off with Kizuna Ai. For videos on youtube, it's more about monetization, so it may appear that it's not necessary to pander, but Eilene did a LOT of mobage promotions and Kizuna Ai went into let's plays really hard.
Something is not pandering just because you don't like it, and you're moving the goalposts.
>I'm not sure how this relates to what I said.
>Work culture in Japan postulates that workers are japanese slaves and things must be done as employers ordered. If a major vtuber agency tells a vtuber to do X, they would do it.
That's not how hololive or nijisanji work.
>I didn't repeat a single opinion. Why is this such a common lie on imageboards? Regardless of how many different arguments I make, someone always claims that I'm only repeating a single thing. It's so transparently obviously a lie.
>I can take the bait here and spam "Your lack of respect is meaningless", but here's the short version because I will not describe it every time
There was no bait. Why are you lying?
>superchat oriented income = begging
>you say things towards superchat oriented income != begging, which is an opinion
It's a fact. Superchats are not begging.
>descriving vtubers as good is also an opinion
>and things about normalfags is an opinion
What happened to me repeating just one opinion?
>Something is not pandering just because you don't like it, and anyone making or trying to make a living through entertainment is to some extent biased towards earning money.
>It is because entertainers receive money before an act that they're decent IN their act. Here there's no such standards, thus pandering becomes an optimal solution.
Something is not pandering just because you don't like it, and vtubers don't receive money until someone watches them and decides to give them money. Performers must build a reputation to get people to come see them.
>I have presented numerous arguments. You are just a liar.
>Making these kinds of blanket statements and then not explaining any of them. How delusional. Go back to your cult if you wish to.
Why are you lying, and where are you bringing up this imaginary cult from?
>Because it's fun.
So you are a retard?