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ONION IS BACK, PLEASE TRY IT AND REPORT ANY FURTHER ISSUES!


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Welcome to /liberty/. This board is home to all discussion of libertarianism and economics.

BOARD RULES
1. Adhere to global rules.
2. Keep discussion on-topic: economics, politics, memes.
3. Low-quality posts will be deleted.
4. Namefagging will get you banned.
5. /liberty/ is a SFW board. Spoiler all NSFW content.

Complementary helicopter rides are available for visiting lefties.

STATUS OF ID FUNCTIONS - Apparently, IDs are not functioning properly due to "ISP fuckery" and this may or may not mean that different posters can share the same ID. Also, GeoFlags aren't working. I have contacted site administration and been informed that there is no way to retroactively wipe IDs. Until these 2 issues are resolved, we will have to make do with sus ID fuckery.
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Does board owner have the ability to enable pdf uploads? It would be nice to post books and papers instead of just telling people to find it themselves.
>>511
>>534
If posts go missing it might be because it had a soyjak meme attached. The zzz admin is blindly deleting all posts with soyjaks attached regardless on content.
Instead of just a board, why not a Libertypol or Freedomchan? It might help organize libertarians better.
If the state is abolished, then does that mean I have to give up all of my belonging that I won at police auctions?
Replies: >>664
>>663
>If the state is abolished, then does that mean I have to give up all of my belonging that I won at police auctions?
It is the same rules for all stolen property. If the legitimate owner can prove they are the rightful owner then give it back. This does entitle you to extract compensation from the pigs who organized the auction in the first place though
>something something just following orders
is not a valid legal defense in any sane justice system.

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I've been reading a lot about the Black Plague recently, and have been chilled by how much better things got after the Plague hit.  Labor saving devices.  Increased productivity.  The beginnings of the industrial revolution  Better working conditions.  Better civil liberties.  It's enough to give me pause for Malthus.

What would happen if millions of people stuck in poverty and debt today all committed mass suicide on the same day?  Would there be any sort of 'shock effect' caused by such a bizarre protest of human condition?

Given the collapse of demographics going on, why isn't that priced into labor markets?  Surely, businesses must see that human population is going to drop off a cliff in the next few decades.  E.g., in places like Japan and South Korea especially it's going to completely and utterly fucking collapse.
Replies: >>681
>>675 (OP) 
>Given the collapse of demographics going on, why isn't that priced into labor markets?
Labor and manufacturing are completely irrelevant to western economies. We print magic pieces of paper that are backed by nothing and use them to scam brown and yellow people into making everything for us. The problem with printing money is that every time you do it the money becomes worth less and eventually everyone gets crushed by runaway inflation. But we're not there yet.

>in places like Japan and South Korea especially it's going to completely and utterly fucking collapse.
You can only chalk so much up to incompetence. The sooner you realize the government is not on your side the better you will be able to prepare yourself.

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Have any of the cryptoanarchists thought up any solutions to the problem of fedposting?

Specifically the following playbook:
>Forum with actual freeze peach.
>Feds want to shut it down.
>Feds post cp on it.
>Feds claim, "You're hosting cp."
>No way to show that they've been framed.
>"Give us backend access to spam it the fuck with fedposting bots, or get shut down."
>Those that don't have a tor site get shut down.
>Those that do have a tor site, "Fuck off, we're resistant to censorship."
>Feds spam the everloving fuck out of the board--usually with cp anyways
>Have to put up a captcha.
>"Give us backend access or we shut down the captcha provider :)."
>Only freeze peach forums left are those with like 3 users who post every few months.
Replies: >>677 >>680
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>>676 (OP) 
This is not a /liberty/ topic, this shit happens to every single forum that is more radical than Reddit.
Replies: >>678 >>679
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>>677
oh right I also have this
>>677
1-Cypherpunk/Cryptoanarchism talk is as /liberty/ as it gets, what are you talking about?  Next you'll say "Don't post about Assange/Snowden because that's not /liberty."
2-The board is dead enough.  We don't need gatekeeping.
3-Your main logical flaw is that your nihilism is self-fulfilling.
>>676 (OP) 
>Feds post cp on it.
>Feds claim, "You're hosting cp."
That literally never happens. If they want you gone they take you down and plant the cp later. The solution is don't let them take you down by hosting on Tor or i2p or similar.

>"Give us backend access or we shut down the captcha provider :)."
Is this whole post because you are too dumb to solve the chess captcha? Jeez.

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What did you guys think of the interview.  Some various thoughts of mine:
1 - The MSM's response and spin is so over-the-top it's both insulting and hilarious.  It's also really interesting what they don't report on.  E.g., the BBC doesn't report about the claim that Boris stopped the peace talks.  The German DW doesn't talk about Putin saying that he thinks he's fighting the U.S. _and Germany_--he names those two countries in particular.  They also make it sound like Tucker made Putin look like a saint and was unprofessional when in fact...
2 - I think this interview made Putin look terrible.  Like on the level of "I'm surprised both Putin and the Kremlin were completely O.K. with this, what the fuck?"  I was expecting more of a propaganda spin for their Ukraine war.  Instead, it kind of makes me root for Ukraine more.
3 - Man, the first half of the interview is a real slog, picrel.  However, it makes it plainly evident that Putin really honestly believes in irredentist foreign policy.  It surprised the shit out of me since I kind of thought we left that behind in the previous century.  This was the biggest takeaway for me.
4 - He's clear that the war was for Black Sea access.
5 - He doesn't see the U.S. as the most powerful country anymore, he sees China as the most powerful country now and therefore is just seeing what he's doing as moving into their alliance block.  He talks about Chinese trade and waning U.S. influence to a surprising extent that it feels like he do
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>>571
>It is not whataboutism because you are you one who setup this dichotomy in >>525. Your argument is that leaders who put their own country first are bad because doing so leads to war. Since you use MAGA as an insult you agree that most american presidents do not put america first. And yet america has had significantly more wars than putin. So given the facts your statement in >>525 is objectively false.
This isn't even strawmanning, because strawmanning involves at least approximating what the other person said.  This is just completely making up what the other person said.
Replies: >>582
>>560
>tried to overthrow the democratically elected government of ukraine in 2004 (failed)
Not failed. In 2004 Ukrainians successfully did «Stop the Steal». 

>overthrow the democratically elected government
Being democratically elected don't allow the president to be an asshole. Anyway, you hate democracy, so why you are complaining?

The Revolution of Dignity https://vatniksoup.com/en/soups/123/ 
The Euromaidan protest, that would eventually become the Revolution of Dignity, began on 21 Nov, 2013 as a peaceful demonstration of 1500 people, summoned by a Afghan-Ukrainian journalist Mustafa Nayyem.

Only a week later Yanukovych ordered the state riot police, Berkut, to violently disperse the protest. But a few days later the rioters came back, which resulted in more violence and ultimately to a new anti-protest laws that would make future protests much more difficult.

But this law only agitated the people, and the protests weren't happening only in Kyiv - large anti-Yanukovych and pro-EU protests were also seen in other cities around Ukraine, including Lviv, Kharkiv, Ternopil, Sumy, Donetsk, Zaporizhia, Mykolaiv, Odesa, Mariupol and Luhansk.
Replies: >>582
>>576
>This is just completely making up what the other person said.
If you think there is a mistake then feel free to clarify.

>>580
>Being democratically elected don't allow the president to be an asshole. 
He wasn't an asshole he just wasn't pro-NATO enough.
>If you think there is a mistake, then feel free to clarify.
What is there left to clarify when you've gotten everything wrong?
Replies: >>682
>>674
>your wrong about everything but I can't explain why
Just take the L. You are running on emotions and propaganda not facts and logic that's why you can't argue back.

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Post your best.
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Cringe and mostly dead board, might as well contribute I guess.
Replies: >>668
>>666
Board is dead because zzz mods keep deleting effort posts with no warning or reason.
Replies: >>669 >>670
>>668
Really? I figured the camels simply left for long journey greener pastures after this place dried up since we webring folks are basically forced and used to be nomadic to find like minded discourse or fun shitposts to participate in. Though I suppose mod autism is the reason in particular for it drying up, shame really but oh well I guess.
>>668
>effort posts
What kind of posts? Because if those have soyjaks then I wouldn't consider them "effort".
Replies: >>673
>>670
>What kind of posts? Because if those have soyjaks then I wouldn't consider them "effort".
If you don't like the image then spoiler it or delete the image. Deleting 500 word posts and threads just because you got triggered by a meme was a retarded decision and is the reason why everything except /v/ is dead or full of throwaway 1 line posts.

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Most 'ex-libertarians' weren't truly libertarian to begin with. The ones that went fascist were impulsive control freaks who want to mold society in their perfect image regardless of what anyone else wants. If you're about that, you're not a Libertarian. You're just a LARPing fagola.
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Replies: >>651 + 2 earlier
>>479
So someone steals from me while my back is turned, what happens then?

Am i to be the one in charge of defending my rights, and then only in the momment?

What lf someone had wronged me in the last week, can i never get justice?

Do you just endorse a world of "might nakes right" when the offender is stronger or otherwise advantaged over me in terms of application of force?

I am obviously talking about our punitive/rehabilitative system that deals with criminals. 

Like any laws, We must enforce the NAP otherwise it doesnt matter, and like any laws, their endorsement requires the violation of them agsinst those who violated them.

Explain to me how the NAP is to be enforced, in detail. Maybe im getting your positions wrong here.
Replies: >>495
>>493
>i don't know anything about anarchy therefor it can never work
Ignorance and lack of imagination are not an argument. Go and read Chaos Theory or Ethics of Liberty or something.

>So someone steals from me while my back is turned, what happens then?
You figure out who did it and get your property back. Using force if necessary. You can also pay somebody to help you. If you were smart you would get insurance first and then the insurance company will pay you what the stolen item was worth and it is now their problem to find the thief and get their money back.

>What lf someone had wronged me in the last week, can i never get justice?
Your property is your property. It doesn't matter when it was stolen. Things get complicated if the stolen property changes hands and then a person who thinks they are the new owner makes changes. But like I said there are entire books written about private law, it's not like nobody has ever thought about this shit.

>Do you just endorse a world of "might nakes right" when the offender is stronger or otherwise advantaged over me in terms of application of force?
Nope.

>I am obviously talking about our punitive/rehabilitative system that deals with criminals.
That's not your business. You have to the right to use reasonable force to protect your property and extract compensation from somebody who has damaged your property. What happens to the criminal after you got your shit back is not your problem.
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Replies: >>496
>>495
>Do you just endorse a world of "might nakes right" when the offender is stronger or otherwise advantaged over me in terms of application of force?
Keep in mind that's the world we live in now. The government does whatever the fuck they want and you just have to bend over and take it. If your best argument against anarchy is that we might end up back where we are now then you've already lost.
>>334 (OP) 
truth
The funny thing is that under a libertarian government they still would have the right to build their own communities with their own ethos. All statists would have those.
It's easier with someone else's money though

Why did libertarianism die so fucking hard since '08?
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Replies: >>667 + 6 earlier
jews.. many of us realized a libertarian society is literally semite paradise to exploit the goyim. Address the JQ and I will reconsider libertarianism.
Replies: >>659 >>665
>>658
a libertarian society will literally destroy the banking system and the credit expansion that they use to make economies fall.
>>658
>jews.. many of us realized a libertarian society is literally semite paradise to exploit the goyim. Address the JQ and I will reconsider libertarianism.
We offer you freedom from tax slavery and the fiat banking system and absolute right to defend your property from anybody with deadly force. If you still get scammed by high interest loans and diamonds and whatever the fuck you think jews do then it's just natural selection at that point.
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>>127 (OP) 
In short we Americans collectively are fucking retarded and to an extent deserve our suffering based on how people vote, 'Oi, surely Red side of the coin/ Blue side of the coin will change things for the better this time eyy?'.

Also decades of corn syrup and hydrogenated seed oils contribute to this retardation and since school cafeterias are more or less unofficially nationalized/corporatitized/hyper regulated by Monsanto/Bayer, Kraft Heinz, and Coke to name a few - as in it's actually illegal to NOT poison kids with mind numbing slop means the trend will continue until all parents and legal guardians pull their kids out of federal schools.
Yes if a school chief decides to pick from their backyard garden and buy quality beef from their local butcher shop and bring that to feed children at school they will be punished and I know it's a corny saying but the phrase 'You are what you eat' is very true.

>>144
r/TheDonald folks on 4Chins being brain dead and easily amused fools is nothing new, yeah sure Orange Man occasionally says something that makes me chuckle to but I know in the end his masters aren't the American people or the Constitutions, oh no - it's AIpac, the Saudi royal family, and the Murdoch's. Just keep reminding them that their President of peace PBUM who shook hands with Kim in Singapore is the same guy 
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Replies: >>671
For the US I think it's mostly the LP becoming milquetoast as shit and indulging mostly in non-issues. There is a reason why people vote for Republicans or Democrats and it's because these while you may not like how they handle it speak to issues most people tend care about.
No one cares about weed, or trannies. Literal non-issues.
>>622
>The solution to state intervention against our own interests
>Is intervening into people's lives for our own interests
Glow or underage, take both
>>667
>Buzzword buzzword buzzword buzzword
Non-issues, Americans have it too good thanks to liberty and now they're generating issues out of thin air.

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just came across this pic and it's kinda funny that dogs would support an ideology that holds they don't have rights... thought the same thing the other day when I saw a pic of a guy attaching an ancap badge to his dog
Replies: >>635
>>631
>But if they do have rights, then it follows logically that one would be allowed to go to a slaughterhouse and stop the whole thing, stop anyone from buying meat in a supermarket... 
That's not right at all. The NAP is about defending your property or helping somebody who has asked for help. It's not a license to put on a superman cape and start fucking around in other people's affairs.

>Well, Rothbard didn't think animals have rights.
More specifically he said animals can have rights when they ask for them. 

>>632
>>how do we deal with people who torture cats and dogs?
><we don't
All he said was that animals are not covered by the NAP. That means you can't shoot somebody who is abusing a random animal just because it makes you upset or whatever. That's actually the law now to be frank. And it's not like animal charities will just disappear without the state either. The fact that they exist without state subsidies is proof of how much people care about animals to begin with.
Replies: >>657
>>633
>it's kinda funny that dogs would support an ideology that holds they don't have rights
You understand that dogs don't have the mental capacity to "support" any kind of abstract idea. I'm sure there are commies who put marxist paraphernalia on their pets too. It's the same as putting a bumper sticker on your car.
Not an overt libertarian but what I'd do is I'd have a statist law that says: "You must put an animal ~even your own animal~ down humanely. Then I'd pay third-party insurance to the securior to enforce it. You start killing animals in a Chinese way? Then I'd send in my own firm to come and take the others from you. Don't like it? Take me to court for it.

Best I can do btw still not a lib.
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>>634
>More specifically he said animals can have rights when they ask for them.

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Cuckservatives and fascists have /pol/
Leftist fags have /leftypol/

Do you not organize anywhere? Is this and 8.moe/liberty/ all you have?
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Replies: >>654 >>655
>>649
read What Must Be Done
Replies: >>652
>>650
It's not possible for most people to read a book because an unlimited supply of far more entertaining things like videos and video games are readily available. Your enemies spend trillions of dollars making sure most media has their propaganda injected into it. You can insult people for choosing entertainment over reading a book all day but it's never going to convince them to read the book.
Replies: >>653 >>654 >>655
>>652
that's not a good argument for converting to fascism though
Replies: >>654 >>655
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>>643 (OP) 
>Leftist fags have /leftypol/
Leftists don't have jobs or companies to run. Being an unemployed loser living from the labor of others is practically a requirement for being a leftist.

>Do you not organize anywhere?
Organize what? There are groups like nomad network and tom woods elite but people are doing actual business there. They're not a place for losers to post dumb memes and cry about how jews are oppressing you. If all you do want is to post dumb memes and get into policy slapfights with socialists and boomercons and people who actually vote then that's what twitter is for.

>>652
>It's not possible for most people to read a book
Bitch you asked and you got an answer. Don't pivot to "but muh normies are too dumb to read a book". Those are the people we leave behind. Libertarianism is not about saving the normies it's about saving yourself and anybody who wants to come with you. Fuck the normies.

>>653
>that's not a good argument for converting to fascism though
Fascism is just racist socialism and socialism is a scam. You give up all your freedom and power and money to a centralized bureaucracy and then you're shocked pikachu face when the bureaucrats use all that money and power to pursue their own interests instead of giving you universal healthcare.

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>>643 (OP)  (OP) 
>Leftist fags have /leftypol/
Leftists don't have jobs or companies to run. Being an unemployed loser living from the labor of others is practically a requirement for being a leftist.

>Do you not organize anywhere?
Organize what? There are groups like nomad network and tom woods elite but people are doing actual business there. They're not a place for losers to post dumb memes and cry about how jews are oppressing you. If all you do want is to post dumb memes and get into policy slapfights with socialists and boomercons and people who actually vote then that's what twitter is for.

>>652
>It's not possible for most people to read a book
Bitch you asked and you got an answer. Don't pivot to "but muh normies are too dumb to read a book". Those are the people we leave behind. Libertarianism is not about saving the normies it's about saving yourself and anybody who wants to come with you. Fuck the normies.

>>653
>that's not a good argument for converting to fascism though
Fascism is just racist socialism and socialism is a scam. You give up all your freedom and power and money to a centralized bureaucracy and then you're shocked pikachu face when the bureaucrats use all that money and power to pursue their own interests instead of giving you universal healthcare.

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Replies: >>640
>>636 (OP) 
>What's the libertarian answer to unrestricted internet access for 5 year olds?
It is the parents/guardian's responsibility to raise their own children.
>internet
what's the libertarian answer to people destroying any internet infrastructure that isn't on private property? will everyone have a big tower with a transmitter and receiver in their yard to connect like with HAM radio?

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