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Welcome to /liberty/. This board is home to all discussion of libertarianism and economics.

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3. Low-quality posts will be deleted.
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Complementary helicopter rides are available for visiting lefties.

STATUS OF ID FUNCTIONS - Apparently, IDs are not functioning properly due to "ISP fuckery" and this may or may not mean that different posters can share the same ID. Also, GeoFlags aren't working. I have contacted site administration and been informed that there is no way to retroactively wipe IDs. Until these 2 issues are resolved, we will have to make do with sus ID fuckery.
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121 replies and 37 files omitted. View the full thread
>>1123
>Except you have nothing objective granting those rules
You set the conditions for other people to use your property. That's what property is.

>You just have an arbitrary set of rules that everyone is supposed to get on board with.
Libertarians just want to be left alone, nobody is forcing you to go with them.
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>>149
>the webmaster should be allowed to dictate how you can access the site
Replies: >>1182
>>1168
>the webmaster should be allowed to dictate how you can access the site
If you are so weak you get addicted to stupid shit like youtube then that is your problem, not mine and certainly not the government's.
>>13
Why do the biggest assholes use this phrase?
Replies: >>1207
>>1206
Accidentally highlighted over my copypasta. This phrase:
>just really curious

Why did libertarianism die so fucking hard since '08?
119 replies and 19 files omitted. View the full thread
Replies: >>1258 + 7 earlier
You know, thinking about it more, I think the only time liberty has a chance is when the government fucks up their control of the press.
-The early 2000s when there were a shitton of libertarians on the internet and it felt like Ron Paul and the Mises Institute were king. Then DARPA's Lifelog, massive AWS government contracts, and USAID press fuckery happened-.
-You had a brief revival in the 80s with Reagan right around when cable just started getting started.
-In late 18th century America you had massive free press without government subsidization or intervention right before the Stamp Act.

And likewise, when you see dramatic swings against liberty it fairly neatly lines up with when the government started either explicitly clamping down on competing voices, or otherwise massively subsidizing their voice.
- The New Deal's massive socialism coinciding with WW2 propaganda.
- The Federal Reserve/Income Tax/16th Amendment coinciding with WWI propaganda.
etc.

Freedom of the press has to mean NO government subsidization of press or academia for it to mean anything at all. The government found a loophole to "shall make no law" by realizing that through subsidization no one could bring suit against them.
>>127 (OP) 
Some of us became unironic monarchists.
Where'd the /monarchy/ board go to, anyways?
Replies: >>1262
>>1259
https://8chan.moe/monarchy/
It has been dead there for a long time.
Replies: >>1263
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>>1262
Then it sounds like "some" might just be you. Ever thought about going on an internet question to slowly exchange a sequence of favors and go on a series of quests to slowly restore /monarchy/ to its former glory?

I think I might have a medallion and a bag of powder I can give you.

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General thread for board activity.

I'll start.  I found out about a private security firm in Zimbabwe that...has blatant Ancap imagery.
84 replies and 16 files omitted. View the full thread
Does freeganism violate the NAP?
Replies: >>1256
>>1253
>I was looking for good examples
In countries where prostitution is legal pimps don't go around shooting each other. Pimps don't even exist. In counties where weed is legal, weed sellers don't go round shooting each other. It's just economics. Mcdonalds doesn't firebomb burgerking because it's not profitable.

>>1255
>Does freeganism violate the NAP?
You mean dumpster diving for food? Not necessarily. Ideally you just negotiate a deal with the supermarkets, restaurants, bakeries etc. to take the stuff they can't sell off their hands at the end of the day and you don't even have to deal with the dumpsters.

There are probably statist reasons why you can't do that now though, regulations, health codes, liability etc. It's not theft to take something somebody has thrown out anyway. There might be a little bit of trespass involved to get to the dumpster but if the owner doesn't care then they don't care. It's not a crime if there's no victim.
Replies: >>1257
>>1256
>You mean dumpster diving for food? Not necessarily. Ideally you just negotiate a deal with the supermarkets, restaurants, bakeries etc. to take the stuff they can't sell off their hands at the end of the day and you don't even have to deal with the dumpsters.
Doesn't Rothbard say a whole bunch about "abandoned property is free game for homesteading" or something of that sort? I think he said it in the context of a transition from gov property to private property, but shouldn't the same apply to dumpster diving? If I put a padlock on or cage in my dumpster, that's one thing, but if it's open, then shouldn't it be considered "abandoned" and therefore "homesteadable?" I mean you aren't explicitly putting a sign on it by the street saying, "Please take," but it's p. close to that.

>There are probably statist reasons why you can't do that now though, regulations, health codes, liability
It's usually "liability."

Hey, are you and I basically the only posters on this board?
I was thinking about how shit the cost of living in the U.S. overseas territories, and how much the U.S. merchant marine has just utterly collapsed. I know a lot of it is basically scuffled into Marshall Islands COFA flag of convenience bs, but it just gets me wondering...how big of an impact would eliminating the Jones Act be? Like, I know it's a big driver of cost, but how big of an issue is it? Is it just the Jones Act, or what other government interventions are making it terrible?
>>1188
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oie9EXpUwso
Nice this is finally getting out.

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 Who do you want to win? Are you neutral? I'm sure no one here backs Harris, but the Project 2025/Vance thing has hurt Trump's momentum a lot.
86 replies and 15 files omitted. View the full thread
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>>1233
>There is nothing unlibertarian about forming a group or militia. 
Except for the part where the people it protects pay taxes to it, and the part where the officers carry pistols so that they can shoot men who disobey orders in combat.

>nooooo, anything but blood and soil!

It's called kin preference, and men are willing to fight and die for it. Lolbertarians do not offer any similar motivation. Muh no color matters but green, gimme muh shekels, muh thirty pieces of silver, muh voluntary associations only, muh color blind ideals, all of that works right up until someone uses force. Then all the talk about muh freedums vanishes. Whoever's best at organized violence wins, gets to write history, and gets to teach children their ideals.

>ignoring the replies

When the replies are that retarded, they aren't worth the effort of typing.  Here's your (You).
Replies: >>1241 >>1242
>>1236
Hey Socialist Jerry! Man, it's been a while. Where have you been since the old Mises forums?
>>1236
>Except for the part where the people it protects pay taxes to it,
It's possible to form a militia without taxes just like how it's possible to have sex without it being rape.

>It's called kin preference, and men are willing to fight and die for it.
If you say so. Nobody is stopping you forming such groups the point is if being born white is a person's biggest achievement then that is guaranteed to be a group full of feckless losers.

>all of that works right up until someone uses force
Then it continues working after the aggressor has been physically removed.

>Whoever's best at organized violence wins
Wins what? You can't eat bullets. The USSR was far better at organized violence than the west but it was such a bad place to live they had to build walls to stop people from running away. Voluntary cooperation always outperforms slavery in the long run.
Replies: >>1246
>>1242
Dude, read the rest of the thread, he'll just ignore you and claim "victory." You're being played.
Replies: >>1254
>>1246
That looks like what he's doing!

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https://x.com/MassieforKY/status/1849860030654448055

Bad move IMO. The people who support Trump will think he is a weasel and the people who hate both candidates think he's cucked. He would have been better off saying nothing at all.
3 replies and 1 file omitted. View the full thread
Replies: >>1020 + 1 earlier
>>1010
He has been talking a lot about AIPAC this year and then his wife suddenly died. If he's not compromised he's still under a lot of pressure, I don't blame him for not being perfect.
>>1007 (OP) 
How can a libertarian support someone known for saying "You're fired!" who never fired Fauci?
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This thread aged well.
Replies: >>1251
>>1244
I thought I was having deja vu. I guess everyone forgot trump already came after massie before.
Replies: >>1252
>>1251
This time he'll be coming after Massie's Senate run, though.

Imagine Rand+Massie tagteaming filibusters in the Senate.

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Have any of the cryptoanarchists thought up any solutions to the problem of fedposting?

Specifically the following playbook:
>Forum with actual freeze peach.
>Feds want to shut it down.
>Feds post cp on it.
>Feds claim, "You're hosting cp."
>No way to show that they've been framed.
>"Give us backend access to spam it the fuck with fedposting bots, or get shut down."
>Those that don't have a tor site get shut down.
>Those that do have a tor site, "Fuck off, we're resistant to censorship."
>Feds spam the everloving fuck out of the board--usually with cp anyways
>Have to put up a captcha.
>"Give us backend access or we shut down the captcha provider :)."
>Only freeze peach forums left are those with like 3 users who post every few months.
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Replies: >>1243 + 3 earlier
>>945
Do I sound pissed? You're just wrong it's as simple as that. And nobody believes you have been to the "ghetto". If you unironically think I'd a fed because I rekt you with simple logic then that means you are so terminally online it has made your brain schizo.
Replies: >>948
>>947
>Do I sound pissed?
YES.
Replies: >>952
>>948
You are living in a different reality.
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>>926
>you're glowing pretty hard
>don't do shit goy only leftists are allowed to use violence

die faggot
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>>676 (OP) 
Is it at all possible to honeypot the honeypotters?

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Replies: >>1235 + 8 earlier
Alright, now that the election is over and the bots are all unfunded and probably left, time to post on the board again!
>>959
What you said and how what I said can still both be true.
Replies: >>1031
>>1024
>What you said and how what I said can still both be true.
Liberty and equality are opposites.
Replies: >>1035
>>1031
Yes.  I know.  You already said that, and I already agreed with it.
>>300 (OP) 
I feel like most libertarians leave because they're constantly pessimistic. I mean, they're right to be, they ARE always losing on the average. However, that doesn't make someone want to stay. It just makes them depressed, nihilistic, and drop out.
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How tf did the American revolutionaries do it? Despite British spies they managed to organize. Despite die hard royalists, they agitated for extreme liberty. Despite Benjamin Franklin retarded Continental they setyled on a gold standard. Paine writes some terse pamphlets and it riled up drunkards at bars to revolt. Fucking how? The American Revolution seems more and more like a miracle the more I think about it and how statist things are now.

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Cuckservatives and fascists have /pol/
Leftist fags have /leftypol/

Do you not organize anywhere? Is this and 8.moe/liberty/ all you have?
29 replies and 2 files omitted. View the full thread
>>1224
Great. Now the neonazis even have nonsensical AI replies.
Replies: >>1226
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>>1225
<muh AI
Seethe harder brownoid.
Replies: >>1227 >>1229
>>1226
What I'm saying is I don't understand who or what you're even replying to in this thread. You just came in ranting about niggers like a lunatic.
>>1226
Also, while I'm at it, just say nigger. It's a perfectly acceptable word. "Brownoid"? If you're going to be racist, then fucking commit to it. Do it with a hard R, too.
>>1224
><become an agent of the system before telling us how to be against the system!
Being self sufficient is the opposite of being an agent of the system. You're the one who would starve if the system stopped giving you free money.

>but i'm white so it's ok
You're a parasite. A black man who trades value for value is superior to you who leeches from other people.

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License Plate Surveillance, Courtesy of Your Homeowners Association

Flock Safety works with police to market scanners to hundreds of private community groups — which have no privacy safeguards.

At a city council meeting in June 2021, Mayor Thomas Kilgore, of Lakeway, Texas, made an announcement that confused his community.

“I believe it is my duty to inform you that a surveillance system has been installed in the city of Lakeway,” he told the perplexed crowd.

Kilgore was referring to a system consisting of eight license plate readers, installed by the private company Flock Safety, that was tracking cars on both private and public roads. Despite being in place for six months, no one had told residents that they were being watched. Kilgore himself had just recently learned of the cameras.

“We find ourselves with a surveillance system,” he said, “with no information and no policies, procedures, or protections.”

The deal to install the cameras had not been approved by the city government’s executive branch.

Instead, the Rough Hollow Homeowners Association, a nongovernment entity, and the Lakeway police chief had signed off on the deal in January 2021, giving police access to residents’ footage. By the time of the June city council meeting, the surveillance system had notified the police department over a dozen times.
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>>1216
Addendum
I probably fucked up details in this explanation. Maybe it's not a year. Maybe even Intelius can't "show" your old results anymore, or Intelius can't either. But the fact still remains that there is essentially a shell company data shuffling game going on. Just keep the bigger picture when you're listening to shitposters on chans and thank you for subscribing to my podcast.
You know, why is capitalism so fucking bad at defending itself? Facebook is DARPA's Lifelog. Snowden proved that every dragnet is government funded. Media collusion turns out was a giant USAID circlejerk.
Meanwhile, capitalism is the one providing Privacy.com, using cash, Protonmail, E2E encryption services, Blur, addy, 33mail, VPNs, etc..
Capitalism is doing everything it can to protect privacy, the government is doing everything it can to destroy it, but it's called "surveillance capitalism" and orgs like the EFF blame capitalism when ISPs lobby the government for regs in their favor?
Replies: >>1231
Larry Ellison says AI will enable a vast surveillance system that can monitor citizens.

Ellison, the billionaire cofounder of Oracle, shared his thoughts on AI during a recent meeting.

Oracle, a software company, is aggressively pursuing AI projects.

Walking down a suburban neighborhood street already feels like a Ring doorbell panopticon.

But this is only the start of our surveillance dystopia, according to Larry Ellison, the billionaire cofounder of Oracle. He said AI will usher in a new era of surveillance that he gleefully said will ensure "citizens will be on their best behavior."

Ellison made the comments as he spoke to investors earlier this week during an Oracle financial analysts meeting, where he shared his thoughts on the future of AI-powered surveillance tools.

Ellison said AI would be used in the future to constantly watch and analyze vast surveillance systems, like security cameras, police body cameras, doorbell cameras, and vehicle dashboard cameras.

"We're going to have supervision," Ellison said. "Every police officer is going to be supervised at all times, and if there's a problem, AI will report that problem and report it to the appropriate person. Citizens will be on their best behavior because we are constantly recording and reporting everything that's going on."
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https://www.racket.news/p/bipartisan-coalition-finally-tells
It's finally coming out that most of this surveillance "capitalism" wasn't capitalism all along. Also,
>Twitter executives scrambled to explain to football’s cyber-bobbies that many of their suspects were black themselves, and tweets like “RAHEEM STERLING IS DAT NIGGA” were not, in fact, “hateful conduct.” (The idea that British police needed American executives to interpret sports slang is a horror movie in itself.
This is some great dark humor.  Their response to the British should've been "Nigga, please."
>>1190
>by a libertarian billionaire Peter Thiel
Peter Thiel is a libertarian the same way Joe Biden is a marxist.

>>1219
>why is capitalism so fucking bad at defending itself?
Most rich people are rich because of government connections, they are not capitalists. The last thing they want is to lose all their government influence and be forced to compete on the level playing field of the free market.

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What is /liberty/'s ideal currency? Is it gold, silver, or perhaps something else all together? What does /liberty/ think of 1930's germany tying their money to labor? Is barter superior to currency?
56 replies and 19 files omitted. View the full thread
Replies: >>1194 + 3 earlier
Why Did the World Choose a Gold Standard Instead of a Silver Standard?
https://mises.org/mises-wire/why-did-world-choose-gold-standard-instead-silver-standard

Among those who support the end of government fiat money, it’s not uncommon to hear and see claims that gold is “the best money” or “natural money” or the only substance that’s really suited to be commodity money. In many of these cases, when they say “gold” they mean gold, and not silver, platinum, or any other precious metal.

Naturally, one can expect to encounter these claims among those who have made a living out of promoting gold and gold-related investments for commercial purposes.

For example, consider Nathan Lewis’s 2020 article at Forbes titled “Gold Has Always Been the Best Money.” Lewis contends that gold and not silver is obviously the best money and that its adoption as the metal behind the nineteenth-century gold standard was more or less inevitable and based on the alleged intrinsic superiority of gold as money. He writes:

< In the late 19th century, a final decision had to be made between gold and silver. People chose gold; and silver, which had for thousands of years traded in a stable ratio with gold, lost its monetary quality and became volatile.

Lewis presents this as an event that was as natural as people choosing to ride in automobiles rather than on the backs of donkeys. Choosing gold over silver is progress, just like getting rid of the horse and buggy!

Lewis insists that “a final decision had to be made” between gold and silver and that “people” chose gold.

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This was a new one: The U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) argued that confiscating $50,000 from a small business did not infringe the business' right to private property because money is not property.

"Money is not necessarily 'property' for constitutional purposes," the government's brief declared—putting the very idea of property in square quotes. Reading at my desk, I practically fell out of my chair.

The DOJ gave three rationales for the argument, all packed into a doorstopper of a footnote: (1) the government creates money, so you can't own it; (2) the government can tax your money, so you don't own it; and (3) the Constitution allows the government to spend money for the "general welfare."

If a libertarian was asked to write a satire of a government lawyer's brief, this is what they might come up with. But here it was, in black and white.

https://reason.com/2025/01/31/the-government-says-money-isnt-property-so-it-can-take-yours/
Replies: >>1194
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>>77 (OP) 
>Is barter superior to currency?
To expand on >>78 , currency solves the problem of "double coincidence of wants." I'm a "cigarette wanting bread haver" while you're a "book wanting cigarette haver" and in order to barter we need to find a "bread wanting book haver."
>What does /liberty/ think of 1930's germany tying their money to labor?
There are lots of problems in tying value to labor, but in short, if you use any variety of cost theory of value, you're going to run into diamond-water paradoxes.
>What is /liberty/'s ideal currency? Is it gold, silver, or perhaps something else all together?
Don't decide. Literally do not decide. Money should be an organic function of the marketplace.
That said, though, gold.
>>164
Interesting, but >>174
>I'm skeptical of anyone who has been permitted to create their own currency since having a monopoly on currency creation is the source of all power under our current regime.
c.f. what happened to Liberty Dollar.
>>204
There are unironically guys who do that at Porcfest, and it's generally encouraged from what I gather.
>>219
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Thoughts on Zano? Is it worth using when there is Monero? Is it backdoored?
Replies: >>1228
>>1197
Roger Ver promotes it, maybe it's legit.
I'm going to stick with Monero for the moment

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