New Thread
Files Max 5 files32MB total
[New Thread]

[Hide] (253.1KB, 1280x855)
Welcome to /liberty/. This board is home to all discussion of libertarianism and economics.

1. Adhere to global rules.
2. Keep discussion on-topic: economics, politics, memes.
3. Low-quality posts will be deleted.
4. Namefagging will get you banned.
5. /liberty/ is a SFW board. Spoiler all NSFW content.

Complementary helicopter rides are available for visiting lefties.

STATUS OF ID FUNCTIONS - Apparently, IDs are not functioning properly due to "ISP fuckery" and this may or may not mean that different posters can share the same ID. Also, GeoFlags aren't working. I have contacted site administration and been informed that there is no way to retroactively wipe IDs. Until these 2 issues are resolved, we will have to make do with sus ID fuckery.
Last edited by Hidden User
27 replies and 9 files omitted. View the full thread
[Hide] (53.4KB, 482x298)
I want to buy my Libertarian father a gift for Christmas. Does /liberty/ have any suggestions for that?
Replies: >>160
3D printer
The standard libertarian model of a community is one of individuals who, instead of living physically separated and isolated from one another, associate with each other as neighbors living on adjacent but separately owned pieces of land. However, this model is too simplistic. Presumably, the reason for choosing neighbors over isolation is the fact that for individuals participating in and partaking of the benefits of the division of labor, a neighborhood offers the added advantage of lower transaction costs; that is, a neighborhood facilitates exchange. As a consequence, the value of an individually owned piece of land will be enhanced by the existence of neighboring pieces of land owned by others. However, while this may indeed be true and constitute a valid reason for choosing a neighborhood over physical isolation, it is by no means always true. A neighborhood also involves risks and may lead to falling rather than increasing property values, for even if one assumes, in accordance with the model under consideration, that the initial establishment of neighboring property was mutually beneficial, and even if it is further assumed that all members of a community refrain from criminal activity, it might still happen that a formerly "good" neighbor turns obnoxious, that he does not take care of his property or changes it so as to negatively affect the property values of other community members
Message too long. View the full text
[Hide] (110.3KB, 1024x768)
What is the most /liberty/  tier drug?
>Begin with the night-watchman state, the absolute minimal government you need to remain stable (sorry ancaps, but anarchy of any kind lack stability).

>Remove the legislative branch and all legislative powers from government, we have the non-aggression principle, we don't need to make any changes to the laws. Our government would be composed of overseers, not lawmakers, they would only be able to enforce the laws as they were written at the time of the nation's founding. Ownership of Intellectual property will not be recognized by law, neither would the "personhood" of corporate entities/institutions (these two policies caused a lot of issues for our countries down the line, didn't they? and in retrospect, they were flat out retarded, just as bad as welfare/social-security/pensions).

>In it's place put the national banking system, it will operate in all kinds of banking, and be regulated by law to adhere to a policy of full monetary reform (no charging interest, no fiat currency, no fractional reserve, etc.). For any country to maintain it's sovereignty it must maintain full and exclusive control over it's money.

>Instead of sentencing them to a set duration of time in prison, criminals will be punished by sending the convicted to rehabilitation, to be released only upon expert determination that they are reasonably unlikely to reoffend. Those who are unable to be reformed may be sent to a prison for permanent incarceration, exiled to a penal colony to the same effect, or simply executed by the state. Victims of crimes will be financially compensated by the state, as it is the defining role of the government to prevent crime.

>Taxes are necessary for state functioning, but with limited services provided by the government (just enough to enforce the law, defend the nation, and run their financial system) taxes need not be collected in an unfair way. A percentage will be taken out of every domestic transaction that uses the national currency, an additional percentage may be taken out of transactions using the national currency that occur across borders, a tax will be taken annually from all landowners in the form of a percentage of the value the land holdings had at the time of their acquisition, crossing the borders will cost a sum to be paid for each person crossing. In addition to the percentage taken out of every account with the national bank, and the shares of the profits purchased by the bank in enterprises, this should be more than sufficient to fund the operations of the government.

>If you want there to be a more fascist libertarianism, limit the NAP to apply only to living adult male humans of white race. Anything/Everyone else would lack personhood and rights, becoming a defacto outlaw and dejure slave. Their only protections under the law would come from being the property of someone who does fit the criteria, and it would only protect them from anything their owner doesn't consent to. The owner would also assume legal accountability for the actions of their property.

We could also institute a policy that requires military/police service or land ownership for participation in the electoral process (voting or running), assuming we even had an electoral system. Perhaps we could require a term of service to own land, and landholding to participate in the political process. BTW, if we did have elections, I'd like them to be conducted through a system that does not fail all the standards of arrow's theorem, and also meets the condorcet standard as well (it's possible), we could add an additional tweak to make elections even more difficult to meddle with by adding the detail of the minority rule, or having the basis of selection be lowest amount of votes rather than the greatest number of them.

>I'm basically taking ideas from all over for this, but one thing I'd like to to have an empire, for whatever nation implements these policies to conquer the world and unite them under this system.
Message too long. View the full text

[Hide] (32.8KB, 575x392)
License Plate Surveillance, Courtesy of Your Homeowners Association

Flock Safety works with police to market scanners to hundreds of private community groups — which have no privacy safeguards.

At a city council meeting in June 2021, Mayor Thomas Kilgore, of Lakeway, Texas, made an announcement that confused his community.

“I believe it is my duty to inform you that a surveillance system has been installed in the city of Lakeway,” he told the perplexed crowd.

Kilgore was referring to a system consisting of eight license plate readers, installed by the private company Flock Safety, that was tracking cars on both private and public roads. Despite being in place for six months, no one had told residents that they were being watched. Kilgore himself had just recently learned of the cameras.

“We find ourselves with a surveillance system,” he said, “with no information and no policies, procedures, or protections.”

The deal to install the cameras had not been approved by the city government’s executive branch.

Instead, the Rough Hollow Homeowners Association, a nongovernment entity, and the Lakeway police chief had signed off on the deal in January 2021, giving police access to residents’ footage. By the time of the June city council meeting, the surveillance system had notified the police department over a dozen times.
Message too long. View the full text
12 replies and 2 files omitted. View the full thread
>I don't see any information on if/how they want to prevent people from simply removing the C2PA. I think that will always be technologically possible.
The whole point is that anybody can verify the signatures inside the metadata and if you know where the metadata is you can just remove it. It might be trickier if they embed it inside the image somehow like a watermark but the same principle applies, the location and format has to be public knowledge for people to be able to verify it and if you know where it is you can delete it or at the very least overwrite it with garbage.
The United States government has been secretly amassing a “large amount” of “sensitive and intimate information” on its own citizens, a group of senior advisers informed Avril Haines, the director of national intelligence, more than a year ago.

The size and scope of the government effort to accumulate data revealing the minute details of Americans' lives are described soberly and at length by the director's own panel of experts in a newly declassified report. Haines had first tasked her advisers in late 2021 with untangling a web of secretive business arrangements between commercial data brokers and US intelligence community members.

What that report ended up saying constitutes a nightmare scenario for privacy defenders.

“This report reveals what we feared most,” says Sean Vitka, a policy attorney at the nonprofit Demand Progress. “Intelligence agencies are flouting the law and buying information about Americans that Congress and the Supreme Court have made clear the government should not have.”

In the shadow of years of inaction by the US Congress on comprehensive privacy reform, a surveillance state has been quietly growing in the legal system's cracks. Little deference is paid by prosecutors to the purpose or intent behind limits traditionally imposed on domestic surveillance activities. More craven interpretations of aging laws are widely used to ignore them. As the framework guarding what privacy Americans do have grows increasingly frail, opportunities abound to split hairs in court over whether such rights are even enjoyed by our digital counterparts.

“I’ve been warning for years that if using a credit card to buy an American’s personal information voids their Fourth Amendment rights, then traditional checks and balances for government surveillance will crumble,” Ron Wyden, a US senator from Oregon, says.

The Office of the Director of National Intelligence (ODNI) did not immediately respond to a request for comment. WIRED was unable to reach any members of the senior advisory panel, whose names have been redacted in the report. Former members have included ex-CIA officials of note and top defense industry leaders.

Wyden had pressed Haines, previously the number two at the Central Intelligence Agency, to release the panel's report during a March 8 hearing. Haines replied at the time that she believed it “absolutely” should be read by the public. On Friday, the report was declassified and released by the ODNI, which has been embroiled in a legal fight with the digital rights nonprofit the Electronic Privacy Information Center (EPIC) over a host of related documents.
Message too long. View the full text
We reviewed 25 car brands in our research and we handed out 25 “dings” for how those companies collect and use data and personal information. That’s right: every car brand we looked at collects more personal data than necessary and uses that information for a reason other than to operate your vehicle and manage their relationship with you. For context, 63% of the mental health apps (another product category that stinks at privacy) we reviewed this year received this “ding.”

And car companies have so many more data-collecting opportunities than other products and apps we use -- more than even smart devices in our homes or the cell phones we take wherever we go. They can collect personal information from how you interact with your car, the connected services you use in your car, the car’s app (which provides a gateway to information on your phone), and can gather even more information about you from third party sources like Sirius XM or Google Maps. It’s a mess. The ways that car companies collect and share your data are so vast and complicated that we wrote an entire piece on how that works. The gist is: they can collect super intimate information about you -- from your medical information, your genetic information, to your “sex life” (seriously), to how fast you drive, where you drive, and what songs you play in your car -- in huge quantities. They then use it to invent more data about you through “inferences” about things like your intelligence, abilities, and interests.
Message too long. View the full text
Replies: >>176 >>178
Guess I'll have to buy a motorcycle then!

That and be a communist to diss the owners of land. 

>board subject
.....oh..... lemme just *leaves*
>A 2023 rewrite of Thelma & Louise would have the ladies in custody before you’ve had a chance to make a dent in your popcorn
Mask slip moment for Mozilla, no a totalitarian police state does not prevent crime. Criminals will always find ways around the surveillance while ordinary people are the real victims.

>And keep in mind that we only know what companies do with personal data because of the privacy laws that make it illegal not to disclose that information (go California Consumer Privacy Act!).
Of course more government is always the answer.

[Hide] (1.3MB, 2426x2676)
Replies: >>9
[Hide] (4.6MB, 3202x4994)
>>8 (OP) 
Replies: >>177
[Hide] (1.7MB, 3440x3062)
bump because I keep coming back to this
I hate this long lists of books that the poster obviously hasn't read. Nobody needs to read 20 books on austrian economics.

If you're looking for one good book for each category
Economics: Bob Murphy's Choice
AnCap/Libertarianism: Roathbard's Ethics of Liberty
Anti-Statism: Hoppe's Democracy the God that Failed
Anti-War: Scott Horton's Enough Already

For fiction, Larry Niven's non-mainstream stuff tends to be very libertarian, Anansi and Red Tide for example. And F. Paul Wilson is a full ancap author you might not have heard of. If you really like Ayn Rand's stuff and wish there was more than Stephan Molyneux has some Randian inspired fiction.

Howdy fellow autists (auatrians)! Dont normally post in liberty boards but this one seems nice and has some non-retarded people so ill give it a shot.

Let's stop infighting and making the same theoretical arguments over and over again and discuss something new. There is enough theory already! Let us discuss ancap praxis; how should freedom best be achieved...

The greatest failure of modern lolbertarianism has been its utter lack of any practical means to establiah freedom. Rothbard himself had lots of failed aliances, Hoppe had a few, Rand was Rand. Now everything has stagnated and all iq has been deposited into intellectual boomer circlejerks in Mises Institute and the PFS, who's only purpose is to ejaculate this autismo economics onto young impressionable college students. They have never even heard of Monero! All the cool edgy kids now read Moldbug instead.

What we want is one single free community! Afterwards land can be purchased from neighbouring states, thats not a big concern after sovergnty is established. But how has libertarianism existed for this long without a single successful experiment? 69 years after the communisy manifesto we got the bolshevik revolution. Its been 50 years since For a New Liberty, and what have we got to show for it? Free state project and the crypto grifters and larpers in liberland? When Brazil is driving the movement, you know its bad.

Here is my promt for a productive discussion: what are in your opinion the most feasable strategies for liberty in our lifetime? The aim is for a stable and ultraconservative, homogeneous community, with posibility for future territorial expansion. No retarded larps of liberland or seasteading or mars or muh online communities. I will list some good and bad strategies for you to rank. Motivate your rankings!

National libertarian party politics
Gun proliferation
Ghost guns
Digital freedom/copyleft movement
Message too long. View the full text
4 replies omitted. View the full thread
>For the average person, getting a vpn, going on torrent site, using qbittorrent and then using a video player to watch content, is 10000 harder than paying for netflix.
Normies paying for VPN to bypass cuckflix region restrictions.
>What we want is one single free community!


>ultraconservative, homogeneous community

Replies: >>175
[Hide] (2.2MB, 1920x951)
How about we start researching desert greening and turn Bir Tawil into ancapitstan?
Replies: >>158
Easier said than done. Also, you don't need to build an ancap community on a literal no-man's land, just one far enough that the state wouldn't bother to reach you.
Replies: >>175
>What we want is one single free community!
>ultraconservative, homogeneous community
You can have both. Freedom means doing what you want with your property which includes not letting people you don't like use it or buy it. In reality the market will punish you for discriminating against people for non-economic reasons but maximizing profit is not the only thing that matters to most people.

>you don't need to build an ancap community on a literal no-man's land, just one far enough that the state wouldn't bother to reach you.
Or within a state that you can bribe and/or credibly defend yourself from. Titus Gebel's Free Private Cities is a good read.

[Hide] (434.3KB, 1600x1067)
[Hide] (1.4MB, 2000x2000)
[Hide] (394.9KB, 1920x1200)
What is /liberty/'s ideal currency? Is it gold, silver, or perhaps something else all together? What does /liberty/ think of 1930's germany tying their money to labor? Is barter superior to currency?
30 replies and 6 files omitted. View the full thread
>who's we? Are you a representative from goldback?
Why libtards so stupid?
Replies: >>171
I don't know if you've been using image boards for a long time but the term "we" is almost never used in this context. This would go more so for /liberty/ since this board heavily encourages individualism.
Replies: >>174
Physical gold in real world.
Monero in your own wallet on internet.

Yes, silver is valid, but it flows to gold. Other crypto flows to Monero.

I actually earned some monero selling stuff on I encourage everyone to list their bits and pieces for sale there. There is also a wanted section to list things you want. Be a part of the economy, create supply and demand!
Replies: >>173
[Hide] (58.4KB, 800x534)
From your own experience, is monero the most trusted crypto currency?
He's obviously quoting from the website he linked and missed out the green arrow at the start.

>What does /liberty/ think of Goldbacks? 
I'm skeptical of anyone who has been permitted to create their own currency since having a monopoly on currency creation is the source of all power under our current regime.

Cryptocurrencies got away with it because it is impossible to control math and computer code but something physical like gold will always be subject to physical control and confiscation by thugs with more guns than us.

[Hide] (91.8KB, 554x380)
Discussion: Spotting Closet Socialists

We identify various defining characteristics in the socialist. He deeply suppresses his innate tribalism and believes all peoples are equal and entitled in his country. He perceives himself as a lowly member of the working class. He is being held down by the man: a fabulously rich business exec who chainsmokes cigars. Charity is a moral necessity. The poor are due their hand-outs as compensation from the "exploitative" bourgeoisie. He throws "fascist" around as an epithet for all those who dare to speak out in the sake of preserving their own culture.

He is an egalitarian, a victim, a comrade, he is "proletariat" (Starbucks™), "anti-fascist," a Californian: he is the closet socialist.

How can we spot these people in our day-to-day lives so that we can avoid them?
11 replies and 4 files omitted. View the full thread
The worst part is the people who pay all the taxes and make this all possible are the biggest supporters.

I've been working on an NPC exploit for Blue city libtards. Ask them how much tax they pay. Then ask them to guess how much tax the average toothless deplorable redneck school shooting trump voter pays. Then try to get them to connect those dots between paying tons of tax and then being permanently outvoted by people they hate more than anything.

>inb4 the average democrat will just want to put trump voters into gas chambers and keep democracy as it is
I'm kind of expecting that response but we'll see.
Socialism Isn't about Creating Economies. It Is about Amassing Political Power


The Soviet economy was wasteful and chaotic. Besançon believed that economic planning induced irrationality in the system. Terrified managers couldn’t report failing the plan, and consequently any subsequent economic planning would be even more divorced from reality than previous planning had been.

Both Besançon and Mises knew that socialism could not discover market prices. Both knew that this would lead to widespread corruption. However, Besançon realized that the state not only tolerated but also used the black market for price discovery in economic sectors critical to the regime, like defense and certain prestigious cultural and sport endeavors (Bolshoi Theatre, gymnastics, eventually hockey, etc.).

However, there is a critical difference between Mises and Besançon. While Mises believed that the goal of the Soviet economy was to produce usable goods and services, Besançon believed otherwise. The Soviet economy, he posited, was never about producing goods and services for consumers, but rather had other goals.

The Soviet economy existed to keep the Communist Party in power, and that was the sole criteria party leaders used to evaluate its performance. The “production” of political power was supreme, and anything else was secondary, subordinated to the main goal for the Soviet economy.

Soviet political leaders did not want an economy that produced goods abundantly because abundance separates the citizen from the state. The state would lose its power over its subjects if they became wealthier. Homo sovieticus—the Soviet man—had to be dependent on the state, barely living from one day to the next on state-issued ration cards.

If a Soviet manager managed by some miracle to produce well-being, despite absurd planning orders and a lack of market prices, he might well have been punished for failing to produce what he really needed to produce: state power over simple people. Abundance and well-being always were and still are the true enemies of socialism; people cannot be able to ignore or to forget the power of the state.
Message too long. View the full text
Replies: >>98 >>137
>Abundance and well-being always were and still are the true enemies of socialism
>democracy and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race
After the Americas had been discovered, Isabella and Ferdinand organized trade between their new colonies and Spain via a guild of merchants in Seville. These merchants controlled all trade and made sure that the monarchy got its share of the wealth of the Americas. There was "no free trade" with any of the colonies, and each year a large flotilla of ships would return from the Americas bringing precious metals and valuable goods to Seville. The narrow, monopolized base of this trade meant that no broad class of merchants could emerge via trading opportunities with the colonies. Even trade within the Americas was heavily regulated. For example, a merchant in a colony such as New Spain, roughly modern Mexico, could not trade directly with anyone in New Granada, modern Colombia. These restrictions on trade within the Spanish Empire reduced its economic prosperity and also, indirectly, the potential benefits that Spain could have gained by trading with another, more prosperous empire. Nevertheless, they were attractive because they guaranteed that the silver and gold would keep flowing to Spain.


As Habsburg absolutism strengthened in the eighteenth century, the power of all non-monarchical institutions weakened further. When a deputation of citizens from the Austrian province of the Tyrol petitioned Francis for a constitution, he responded, “So, you want a constitution! . . . Now look, I don’t care for it, I will give you a constitution but you must know that the soldiers obey me, and I will not ask you twice if I need money . . . In any case I advise you to be careful what you are going to say.” Given this response, the Tyrolese leaders replied, “If thou thinkest thus, it is better to have no constitution,” to which Francis answered, “That is also my opinion.”


At the center of Habsburg economic institutions stood the feudal order and serfdom. As one moved east within the empire, feudalism became more intense, a reflection of the more general gradient in economic institutions we saw in chapter 4, as one moved from Western to Eastern Europe. Labor mobility was highly circumscribed, and emigration was illegal. 

>Abundance and well-being always were and still are the true enemies of socialism
When the English philanthropist Robert Owen tried to convince the Austrian government to adopt some social reforms in order to ameliorate the conditions of poor people, one of Metternich’s assistants, Friedrich von Gentz, replied, “We do not desire at all that the great masses shall become well off and independent . . . How could we otherwise rule over them?”
Message too long. View the full text
[Hide] (63.6KB, 405x507)
You don't belong here

Why did libertarianism die so fucking hard since '08?
2 replies omitted. View the full thread
Discord and Telescam.
>>127 (OP) 
All it's proponents graduated from high school.
>>127 (OP) 
Nobody is obliged to defend a statement you just made up.
>>127 (OP) 
Because most high-school libertines have an incredibly basic understanding and are easily swayed away by propaganda and populism? This is why the "libertarian - altright" pipeline exists at all. Many people were self-declared libertarians after listening to Ron Paul a few times, but never understood the moral, let alone epistemological rationale behind free markets and private property.

Unsurprisingly, a person with surface level understanding of their own ideology will easy be fooled by a charismatic source, life situations, or ecochambers. That is how a movement dies. By people being pragmatic, aesthetics chasing, optics concerned faggots. Ironically we are seeing a resurgence in that aspect with twitter "Hoppeans" (ironically most of them never read Hoppe, or even other authors in the Austrian school) and "paleolibertarians", who know make up what most people believe libertarianism is, which is another term of MAGA. And no, I'm not kidding. Go on Reddit, Discord, Twitter and talk with some real hard normies. They will tell you that libertarians vote republican, love guns, and closed borders.

This is nothing new. Liberalism was destroyed the same way during the early 20th century, and actual liberal positions were overshadowed and forced to be rebranded as "classical-liberals". So I expect libertarians will have to find a new name. Voluntarism seems nice to be honest, and emphas
Message too long. View the full text
Cryptocurrencies and tech-savvy places. Or rather, those areas cultivate libertarian ethics. Two people with the same computer produce vastly different quality and quality of output. So Labor Theory of Value is a no-go already. Genuine cryptocurrencies permit all transactions as an axiom and cut out third parties, so economic regulation or state regulated monetary policy is a no-go,
Obviously, there are countless exceptions, you cannot group people in just like this. This is why Marxist class analysis fails. But personally, I have seen AI and cryptocurrency and other "freedom tech" if you wanna call it that, cultivate a sort of "silent majority closeted libertarian". If you wanna meet other libertarians online, out of the context of edgy teens ideology jumping, go to any community discussing technology that incorporates freedom as a fundamental axiom for it to function. There won't be that much, but it will be way higher than if you went to your local worker union or library.

[Hide] (34.1KB, 348x342)
Are the Austrian and Chicago schools friends or enemies? I know Rothbard hated Friedman but Rothbard hated everyone.
4 replies omitted. View the full thread
Replies: >>122 + 1 earlier
>rap battle
round 2 was better fight me
[Hide] (53.6KB, 850x400)
Replies: >>123
>>106 (OP) 
>but Rothbard hated everyone.
I thought he got along with both Hoppe and Konkin quite well, only disagreeing with the latter on praxis and the Agorist ideal of having an economy of mostly self-employeed entrepreneurs.
This debate is still going on now.
Is it better to run as LP, a party you fully control but has little traction.
Or is it better to run as Republican, a party that has lots of traction but you have little control.
Replies: >>124
Neither. Political parties will get you nowhere.

[Hide] (103.6KB, 480x474)
[Hide] (389.9KB, 800x800)
[Hide] (366.1KB, 800x729)
Just to let you know that I love you guys. Capitalism ho motherfuckers.
[Hide] (311.9KB, 640x899)

[Hide] (34.8KB, 445x576)
Murray Rothbard 100 GET
Let this board have its 100th post dedicated to one of the most influential and beloved Economist and philosopher who advanced the liberty worldwide.
not a GET

Show Post Actions



Select the solid/filled icons
- news - rules - faq -
jschan 1.1.1