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Welcome to /liberty/. This board is home to all discussion of libertarianism and economics.

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Does board owner have the ability to enable pdf uploads? It would be nice to post books and papers instead of just telling people to find it themselves.
>>511
>>534
If posts go missing it might be because it had a soyjak meme attached. The zzz admin is blindly deleting all posts with soyjaks attached regardless on content.
Instead of just a board, why not a Libertypol or Freedomchan? It might help organize libertarians better.
If the state is abolished, then does that mean I have to give up all of my belonging that I won at police auctions?
Replies: >>664
>>663
>If the state is abolished, then does that mean I have to give up all of my belonging that I won at police auctions?
It is the same rules for all stolen property. If the legitimate owner can prove they are the rightful owner then give it back. This does entitle you to extract compensation from the pigs who organized the auction in the first place though
>something something just following orders
is not a valid legal defense in any sane justice system.

Why did libertarianism die so fucking hard since '08?
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>>620
>If I ever study the Bible, it'll simply be the tool or the shovel with which to dig out of the hole I've found myself in while I'm sat at home. My primary tool will still be the real, physical shovel.
I guess I'll say it one last time. If you don't understand what you believe and why you believe it then you are just opening yourself up to be programmed and exploited by somebody else's ideology without you even realizing it. You think that being anti-immigrant and anti-gay makes you at odds with the status quo but in the end you still believe in giving up your money and autonomy to the same people pushing all this crap on you.

>they're 80, they're due to die before Ahmed will get to them
>they bear the compulsion to die at the hands of the national health system and in bloody minded ignorance of the way they were supposed to live and die
>Do you have any idea what it's like to ask one man to fix this? What is it you want me to do?
The point is you babble on about returning to traditional values and close-knit neighborhood ties and other such things and yet you don't even lift a finger to help your own family.

>I want paid national service
Yes, I know, you want somebody else to do all the work for you. If zoomer was a mindset instead of an age then you would fit in perfectly as it happens.

>How do you go about measuring that as the customer transactionally speaking
Hw do you pick the best mortgage or car insurance deal? Are you really this terrified of taking on any level of personal responsibility? We are at war and the government is not on our side. After everything you've seen in your lifetime, iraq, afghanistan, syria, libya, yemen, ukraine, covid, that Gordon bloke stealing all your gold, banker bailouts, mass immigration, why do you still look to the government to wipe your arse for you as if they give a single shit about your wellbeing.

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Replies: >>627
>>625
>understanding what you believe and why you believe it
People care about culture more than money, more than rows about any novel structure or about any particular means of production.

As far as I'm concerned, so long as you preserve and improve the culture or you make a culture argument instead of one about academic politick, then I don't care what political theory you then try and execute. Let's try socialism and fucking long queues for bread. But keep survival of "we" as a culture.

>not helping family not very trad is it
Just assume if you will that my experience with the health service is first-hand and involves supporting most of my family as they die in that environment. What do you want me to do with conflating it about fighting Akhmed harder? What undertaking do you have in mind for me?

You need religion. Not necessarily *my* religion, but you need aim or pursuit toward shared (not isolationist) moral goals. Which is something you will never admit because "money will fix it" but when it's cheaper to kill a patient then they will kill a patient. Atheists, Satanists, God's Chosen People™, Hann Chinese... any and all except that if you at least had Buddism going for you you'd be fine.

>you want somebody else to do all the work for you
Not only do I want to pay the professional, using yours and everybody else's money, but I want to train the professional and tell him exactly how I want it done as well. Just like a boomer in fact. Except that I want to deport the invaders instead of inviting them all in, and then the condition is do whatever the fuck you want have a libertarian utopia I don't care just get them out.

>forced compulsion on human lives are just like mortgages and insurance
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jews.. many of us realized a libertarian society is literally semite paradise to exploit the goyim. Address the JQ and I will reconsider libertarianism.
Replies: >>659 >>665
>>658
a libertarian society will literally destroy the banking system and the credit expansion that they use to make economies fall.
>>658
>jews.. many of us realized a libertarian society is literally semite paradise to exploit the goyim. Address the JQ and I will reconsider libertarianism.
We offer you freedom from tax slavery and the fiat banking system and absolute right to defend your property from anybody with deadly force. If you still get scammed by high interest loans and diamonds and whatever the fuck you think jews do then it's just natural selection at that point.

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Post your best.
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>>407
Power lies in violence, the willingness to use it, and the wisdom to use it well.

See through the illusion of morality and you will find the reality of strategy.
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A classic.
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>>434
Get back inside

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just came across this pic and it's kinda funny that dogs would support an ideology that holds they don't have rights... thought the same thing the other day when I saw a pic of a guy attaching an ancap badge to his dog
Replies: >>635
>>631
>But if they do have rights, then it follows logically that one would be allowed to go to a slaughterhouse and stop the whole thing, stop anyone from buying meat in a supermarket... 
That's not right at all. The NAP is about defending your property or helping somebody who has asked for help. It's not a license to put on a superman cape and start fucking around in other people's affairs.

>Well, Rothbard didn't think animals have rights.
More specifically he said animals can have rights when they ask for them. 

>>632
>>how do we deal with people who torture cats and dogs?
><we don't
All he said was that animals are not covered by the NAP. That means you can't shoot somebody who is abusing a random animal just because it makes you upset or whatever. That's actually the law now to be frank. And it's not like animal charities will just disappear without the state either. The fact that they exist without state subsidies is proof of how much people care about animals to begin with.
Replies: >>657
>>633
>it's kinda funny that dogs would support an ideology that holds they don't have rights
You understand that dogs don't have the mental capacity to "support" any kind of abstract idea. I'm sure there are commies who put marxist paraphernalia on their pets too. It's the same as putting a bumper sticker on your car.
Not an overt libertarian but what I'd do is I'd have a statist law that says: "You must put an animal ~even your own animal~ down humanely. Then I'd pay third-party insurance to the securior to enforce it. You start killing animals in a Chinese way? Then I'd send in my own firm to come and take the others from you. Don't like it? Take me to court for it.

Best I can do btw still not a lib.
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>>634
>More specifically he said animals can have rights when they ask for them.

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Cuckservatives and fascists have /pol/
Leftist fags have /leftypol/

Do you not organize anywhere? Is this and 8.moe/liberty/ all you have?
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Replies: >>654 >>655
>>649
read What Must Be Done
Replies: >>652
>>650
It's not possible for most people to read a book because an unlimited supply of far more entertaining things like videos and video games are readily available. Your enemies spend trillions of dollars making sure most media has their propaganda injected into it. You can insult people for choosing entertainment over reading a book all day but it's never going to convince them to read the book.
Replies: >>653 >>654 >>655
>>652
that's not a good argument for converting to fascism though
Replies: >>654 >>655
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>>643 (OP) 
>Leftist fags have /leftypol/
Leftists don't have jobs or companies to run. Being an unemployed loser living from the labor of others is practically a requirement for being a leftist.

>Do you not organize anywhere?
Organize what? There are groups like nomad network and tom woods elite but people are doing actual business there. They're not a place for losers to post dumb memes and cry about how jews are oppressing you. If all you do want is to post dumb memes and get into policy slapfights with socialists and boomercons and people who actually vote then that's what twitter is for.

>>652
>It's not possible for most people to read a book
Bitch you asked and you got an answer. Don't pivot to "but muh normies are too dumb to read a book". Those are the people we leave behind. Libertarianism is not about saving the normies it's about saving yourself and anybody who wants to come with you. Fuck the normies.

>>653
>that's not a good argument for converting to fascism though
Fascism is just racist socialism and socialism is a scam. You give up all your freedom and power and money to a centralized bureaucracy and then you're shocked pikachu face when the bureaucrats use all that money and power to pursue their own interests instead of giving you universal healthcare.

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>>643 (OP)  (OP) 
>Leftist fags have /leftypol/
Leftists don't have jobs or companies to run. Being an unemployed loser living from the labor of others is practically a requirement for being a leftist.

>Do you not organize anywhere?
Organize what? There are groups like nomad network and tom woods elite but people are doing actual business there. They're not a place for losers to post dumb memes and cry about how jews are oppressing you. If all you do want is to post dumb memes and get into policy slapfights with socialists and boomercons and people who actually vote then that's what twitter is for.

>>652
>It's not possible for most people to read a book
Bitch you asked and you got an answer. Don't pivot to "but muh normies are too dumb to read a book". Those are the people we leave behind. Libertarianism is not about saving the normies it's about saving yourself and anybody who wants to come with you. Fuck the normies.

>>653
>that's not a good argument for converting to fascism though
Fascism is just racist socialism and socialism is a scam. You give up all your freedom and power and money to a centralized bureaucracy and then you're shocked pikachu face when the bureaucrats use all that money and power to pursue their own interests instead of giving you universal healthcare.

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Most 'ex-libertarians' weren't truly libertarian to begin with. The ones that went fascist were impulsive control freaks who want to mold society in their perfect image regardless of what anyone else wants. If you're about that, you're not a Libertarian. You're just a LARPing fagola.
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Replies: >>651 + 2 earlier
>>478
>Faschizo's opinion
>>479
So someone steals from me while my back is turned, what happens then?

Am i to be the one in charge of defending my rights, and then only in the momment?

What lf someone had wronged me in the last week, can i never get justice?

Do you just endorse a world of "might nakes right" when the offender is stronger or otherwise advantaged over me in terms of application of force?

I am obviously talking about our punitive/rehabilitative system that deals with criminals. 

Like any laws, We must enforce the NAP otherwise it doesnt matter, and like any laws, their endorsement requires the violation of them agsinst those who violated them.

Explain to me how the NAP is to be enforced, in detail. Maybe im getting your positions wrong here.
Replies: >>495
>>493
>i don't know anything about anarchy therefor it can never work
Ignorance and lack of imagination are not an argument. Go and read Chaos Theory or Ethics of Liberty or something.

>So someone steals from me while my back is turned, what happens then?
You figure out who did it and get your property back. Using force if necessary. You can also pay somebody to help you. If you were smart you would get insurance first and then the insurance company will pay you what the stolen item was worth and it is now their problem to find the thief and get their money back.

>What lf someone had wronged me in the last week, can i never get justice?
Your property is your property. It doesn't matter when it was stolen. Things get complicated if the stolen property changes hands and then a person who thinks they are the new owner makes changes. But like I said there are entire books written about private law, it's not like nobody has ever thought about this shit.

>Do you just endorse a world of "might nakes right" when the offender is stronger or otherwise advantaged over me in terms of application of force?
Nope.

>I am obviously talking about our punitive/rehabilitative system that deals with criminals.
That's not your business. You have to the right to use reasonable force to protect your property and extract compensation from somebody who has damaged your property. What happens to the criminal after you got your shit back is not your problem.
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Replies: >>496
>>495
>Do you just endorse a world of "might nakes right" when the offender is stronger or otherwise advantaged over me in terms of application of force?
Keep in mind that's the world we live in now. The government does whatever the fuck they want and you just have to bend over and take it. If your best argument against anarchy is that we might end up back where we are now then you've already lost.
>>334 (OP) 
truth

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>>636 (OP) 
>What's the libertarian answer to unrestricted internet access for 5 year olds?
It is the parents/guardian's responsibility to raise their own children.
>internet
what's the libertarian answer to people destroying any internet infrastructure that isn't on private property? will everyone have a big tower with a transmitter and receiver in their yard to connect like with HAM radio?

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Which has had a bigger impact on ending slavery
1 - The abolitionist movement
OR
2 - The industrial revolution
?
Which has had a bigger impact on limiting modern day inflation
1 - Ron Paul's End the FED movement
OR
2 - Bitcoin
?
Concluding leading question:  which matters more for furthering libertarianism
1 - Ideas
OR
2 - Technology
?
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>>619
>That's why leftists ignore banks
Go to a /leftpol/ or reddit and ask them what they think about banks or the fed. They'll say something like get lost lolbert corporations are the only enemy.
Replies: >>626
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>>624
>corporations are the only enemy.
Ask them what they think about the big pharma covid vax conspiracy.
Replies: >>641
What libertarians actually do to become ungovernable?
Replies: >>641
The elites have turned everyone into criminals, liars, hypocrites, and cowards.

The only good thing about living in a police state is that no one can take the moral high ground on anything.
>>626
>Ask them what they think about the big pharma covid vax conspiracy.
They say it was a government project with "scientific" oversight therefor shutup and take your boosters nazi.

>>628
>What libertarians actually do to become ungovernable?
https://medium.com/@Kallman/a-21st-century-introduction-to-agorism-5dc69b54d79f

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How would the NAP deal with noise complaints?
Replies: >>638
>>637 (OP) 
I approve this soyjak because it's making fun of commies.
Not going to effort post a response because the op has a soyjak so the whole thread will probably get deleted by some retarded crybaby zzz mod.

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This has been bugging me for a while. I'm probably not going to say anything new, but I think a thread discussing the matter here would be nice. If we want to have perfect ethics, why should we apply the NAP only to humans? Why would one justify aggression against other animals? But in fact, why just animals? Why not also apply it to every other living being? Perhaps to non-living things as well: maybe it's atoms that have the property right, or maybe it's subatomic particles that do.
Also, all this poses a big problem. If it's true that it's not justified to violate their property right (if they have it), this makes it impossible for us to do anything without violating ethics, since merely developing the land or even just existing causes the death of some other beings or things, and it would make us aggressors by default.
This might all sound quite extreme, but I wanted to push the argument to the absolute limit.
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>>350
veganism (not necessarily vegetarianism) also has this problem to deal with... by plowing the field, a vegan is basically denying the existence of some smaller animals like bugs (ignoring other non-animal living beings as well). How to solve this contradiction?
Replies: >>617
>>350
>I don't see why being able to argue or reason is relevant to determine rights.
It's the only secular explanation for why humans are special. Even the smartest gorillas that can be trained to use sign language are still utterly incapable of asking questions or engaging in any other kind of abstract thought.
>>360
The reason for these frameworks, however primitive they were for the times they were in, established in trial after bloody trial what the correct and "best for you" way to live was along with the rationale for why it is so, Christ being necessary after all.

What I'd given you there was some of that rationale. You will know whether that rationale is valid or not, independent of one's theology for that matter, if you test it against alternate ideas and alternate theories or rationale and see which ones function as they are supposed to.

With mine and in what I gave you, it logically follows. Whereas the "animals should have personhood status ~ they are equivalent/have as much rights as man" argument made by modern law or modern lefty liberals will not logically and consistently "follow" when a lion mauls their offspring and their response is not "I'm glad that lions have the right to be lions".
>>360
Also props to the Blood Brothers - Papa Roach
>>361
It is true that smaller animals and other living beings die during crop production, but by far the vast majority of crop is fed to livestock. Only a smaller portion is directed towards human consumption. So, almost paradoxically, being on a vegan / plant-based diet leads to way fewer deaths of not only bugs, mice, and other small animals, but also plants as well.

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