/fascist/ - Surf The Kali Yuga

To me, accelerationism means avoid paying taxes. But, the easiest way to do that is to become completely independent from the zionist occupation currency ("US" dollar). How does one become independent from the kike-controlled money?

>>4842
I'd say that falls outside accelerationism. How is abstaining accelerating anything?
The generally accepted definition of accelerationism is promoting more of what you know is harmful in order to either shock people awake or collapse the system.

>>4843
Every White man who no longer contributes money to the zog machine is harmful to the zog machine. If enough White dudes stop paying taxes, the system will collapse. Promote the refusal to  pay taxes.

>>4844
I do. Though I know that promoting tax rebellion is like trying to wake people up. It'll never happen in great enough quantity to have an effect.

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You stick out like a sore thumb. Go back to your larp Discord group retard.

>>4841 (OP) 
Accelerationism is fantastic and correct. But it must evolve. See the American Futurist website.

The problem with the Atomwaffen approach was that they operated as an online network. This can work, but only in very, very certain ways, barely ever beyond local recruitment (for example, putting up stickers locally to find members for YOUR cell)

The logical and practical evolution from SIEGEist ideology is cellism- I.e., an IDEOLOGY of a united CONCEPT that can be recreated in each area, with NO CENTRAL STRUCTURE.

Thus, I mean: 
• encourage NatSocs to make their own cells locally 
• ideally with their own personal, trusted friends
• don’t march around in Bundeswehr. Don’t even wear the SIEGE mask when being active.
• on the Internet with the general fascist community, spread images with a checklist, reading list and instructions etc. to making your own NatSoc cell
• from here the chances of infiltration are unfathomably low.
• however, to recruit, you can put up at most 50 stickers around your town in walking distance with a wire address to put forward members of your cell into an interview phase.
• after you have five people at most, take them all down.
• feds won’t have had the time to infiltrate you. They wouldn’t have been able to call a meeting expressing concern. scan an informant, send him in, etc.
• have being under c.35 a requirement (to bulletproof yourself against infiltration)
• you can now just not accept any dodgy people (it’d be a good idea to exclude niners (satanists) from joining IMO as they’ve fucked up some other networks like the base.)

Because it’s really important to remember: you’re not convincing anyone with your gay little propaganda. I mean, you’re not changing their mind about National Socialism. What you’re doing is finding the lost NatSocs near you, just like you, the hidden ones, the lonely ones.
From here, don’t dress up in James Mason LARP uniform. I’m sorry but… a few swastika flags for private moralisation is about all you need. The rest is just LARP. Instead — buy clothes that workmen wear — practical, durable clothing, not bundeswehr surplus that would just be replaced upon tearing by a modern German soldier — working class men don’t have that luxury. Thus, their clothing is actually durable and flexible for the jobs they have, like welding and bricklaying.
Okay, you can give your members a cool name, like Fueurabteiling, to call yourselves, but don’t tell anyone. Not your families, not your friends, not your girlfriends, not anyone online, NO ONE.
No face, no trace, no case.
Take your time to plan — be really careful. Don’t communicate ANYTHING sensitive via computers, ANYTHING AT ALL.
Train for things that you’ll actually need to do when you carry out your plan. (Don’t do anything illegal wink wink). Don’t storm buildings in dress-up. Be clandestine. READ EVERY SINGLE AMERICAN FUTURIST ARTICLE. THOSE GUYS WERE IN ATOMWAFFEN. ATOMWAFFEN FUCKING IMPLODED. THEY KNOW WHAT WENT WRONG. THEY’RE LEARNED. FUCKING DO IT. GET YOUR COMRADES TO DO IT TOO.
Make sure all your members are fit and self-sufficient. Have a book club if they’re moderate — for God’s sake, don’t give them esoteric babble, even if you believe in it. You’ll just turn them off and it’ll be miserable for all of them but you. (I’m assuming they’re all more moderate than you. That should be fine to a degree for now. They need to at least think Hitler was right. That’s the bar.) Why not get them to read the funnest NatSoc books there are together? The Turner Diaries — the Dalton translation of Mein Kampf — Brenton Tarrant’s manifesto — just gentle, sane stuff. Have fun! Strength through joy — keep clandestine, but — play Skrewdriver songs, play EC or AGII or whatever together. Go outside with them. Hiking. Camping.
Okay, so what you do is up to you. Use the guidance your ancestors passed down to you. The Aryan spirit!
• if they live with their parents, and their parents find out, make it out like you’re actually quite moderately right-wing but are hiding it because of government crackdowns on us.
• it would be wisest to only accept >16 year olds, even wiser >18 year olds.
• don’t accept anyone with a non-white dependent.
• don’t accept any non-Aryan, obviously.
• be cautious to make sure that you don’t accept anyone seriously chuddy or with the obvious capacity to become seriously chuddy
• watch out for schizos, motormouths, satanists, or people who want to influence the cell to their niche/completely unrelated ideology (E.g. incel theory; overbearing, irrelevant Christian identity politics; libertarianism)
• adapt to the laws of your country so you don’t get caught! E.g. Don’t buy banned literature just read a PDF of it online
• don’t accept faggots. Don’t accept white Muslims.
• in the very rare case that you’re a NatSoc woman, only allow women into your cell. Likewise, don’t allow women into your cell if you’re male. The reason for this is not because they cannot be useful in exceptional circumstances but rather because it will create sexual dynamics within your cell. Which will lead to tension and potentially disaster.

Hail victory! Feel free to spread this.

>>5021
correction: ignore the bullet about being chuddy.

>>5021
Just want to say how I agree, and love to see American Futurist mentioned here, they are really great. Aryan Freedom Network are pretty cool as well. Blood Tribe eh, but they’re better than Patriot Front.
If someone wants to join a group, Aryan Freedom Network is the way.

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>>5025
thanks fren. Hail!

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>>5025
rewrote the post, feel free to spread THIS around! Short and sweet is the way! o/

Who is your propaganda designed to appeal to?
Is it to people who don't believe what you believe? Or are you searching for people who agree with you?

Are you actually convinced that a poster will change their mind?

We are not the vanguard of radicalisation. We are the radicalised.

It will only benefit us to act as such.

The System is completely against us. Naturally, antithesis will only develop itself via anti-system action -- I'm sure you're well aware of what I mean.

The problem of IM-wave accelerationism is that, for as much as it boasted that it was decentralised, it wasn't. It was quite literally based around a single website, and book.

The original -waffen movement is long dead. Its infiltration -- AWD's infiltration and eventual demise -- is something we will greatly benefit from .

Cells do not need to be linked to a greater macrocosm. We know what we are fighting for. True National Socialists far outnumber foreign ideologues that wish to make cells dedicated to their niche, unrelated ideologies -- these ideologies include, but are not limited to, their personal religion, outright patriotism, incel theory.

While these are not necessarily malevolent forces in and of themselves -- they are but neurotic distractions from our real aim -- yes, aim. We have one aim, and that is Total Aryan Victory, and a beautiful, serene, plentiful new world for our people's future.

That being said, remember our one goal, and links are completely unnecessary -- I'd like to reiterate our position as concepts in an abstract "political" landscape. We are aware it is all an Ouroboros of Systemic intellectualism and decay.

We musn't worship the ashes. It is a waste of our resources -- we honour, venerate, and respect those who pathed the way for us, absolutely, but was their sacrifice worthwhile if their legacy was doomed to manifest as crude reinstatement, cosplay, nostalgia, and more of an aesthetic than an optimistic, future-thinking, radical worldview?

We are the common men. We are everywhere, and should act like it -- our uniform is our skin, not historical militaria nor aesthetically-pleasing TikTok-edit Bundeswehr. Playing fancy dress-up also means putting our clandestinity on the line -- this coupled with the fact that it doesn't impress anyone, only cause discord. Even worse, it makes us LARPers -- precisely because it is just that -- LARPing.

The simple answer that has been right under our noses this whole time is to ditch the idea of a single movement, or even an organisation -- be honest, how many failed, dissolved National Socialist mass movements can you name? I bet it's more than you can count on one hand. This is not only fine, but a lesson -- we cannot win if we're open to infiltration from the inside. We cannot win if we're asking for members. We cannot win if we design cool-looking flags with Totenkopfs on them, put phonk music over a heavily-filtered video of us waving them around, and then upload videos saying "hey! Feds! Come bankroll an informant in our awesome Telegram group! t.me/LARPenwaffen_division2".

The way to win, the way forward that has been attempted and yet has failed for empirical reasons I will get into, is local. There's a saying that goes something along the lines of "everything starts at home". Well, there has never been anything so true!

I'm simply here to offer a few suggestions. As the great Brenton Tarrant said, "take what you think is true from this, and leave what you don't". I think that is a great encapsulation of the pursuit of National Socialist truth. I digress:

# SIEGE is boring as fuck. It is an extremely off-putting, TL;DR collection of obselete rants. I won't say it doesn't have some truth in it, because that would be a lie. But worshipping oldfags that killed coal burners in the 80s, or schizos like Charles Manson, will only put off potential recruits, and endear us to weirdos. AN: if anything, tell people to read the American Futurist publication. It can be pretty wise, learnt, and sane. The Atomwaffen guys have a lot to teach us from where they failed so greatly.

# We need a short, simple message, one that I hope the likes of this essay, when finished, will convey succintly. The kind that can be summed up almost entirely in a single sentence "MAKE YOUR OWN LOCAL NATIONAL SOCIALIST CELL AND BE CLANDESTINE ABOUT IT!"

# YOUR POLITICS ARE BORING AS FUCK TOO! No one cares about your plan to m'heckin balkanise the US with "based tradcath repatriation chad wojack white ethnostates". Literally no one. They're all thinking of their own inane variation. A timely adage from our opponents -- "YOU WON'T DO SHIT". You have no power. You have nothing but resistance. A silent goy that's heckin' thinking about his ideology in his head is as good a goy as one loudly professing his unwavering support for Israel, and that's because YOU NEVER HAD ANY SAY IN THE MATTER ANYWAY.

# Esotericism is spiritual materialism. It's a desperate punchline to a joke. It's private, ultimately. If you believe in esoteric babble, that's fine, but you should realise that you will get nowhere in this deeply materialistic world with your thoughts. As such, please don't include any books that contain the words "Kali Yuga" in reading lists or cellular book clubs.

# Buy durable clothing. Don't have a uniform. Seriously. Don't wear armbands, don't buy SIEGE masks -- cover your face with all-black. You should be able to blend into the crowd.

# Five is the upper limit. Once you have five members, immediately take down all recruitment posters/stickers, and get to know your comrades. They must be your friends, ideally before recruitment but acceptably after. You should trust them with your life.

# Strength through joy! Have fun with them -- now that there is no burden of lame propaganda, don't waste your time on optic antics such as storming through empty buildings. Train for things you'll actually have to do, develop skills you'll actually need. In the meantime, and generally, I say again, have fun! Play games, if that's your thing, play music together, have sleepovers, all these things.

# Accept recruits only in your age range. The least trustworthy recruit is one above 35, with kids. If you're under 30, only accept under-30-year-olds. We are, first and foremost, a youth movement, however, if you are actually on the older side of things, only accept older people. It is a very bad idea to get involved at all if you are under 16. With applying these things to your cellular creation, likewise if you're joining a cell have the same standards and scrutiny.

# Feds will apply if you leave invitations up for more than two weeks. Interview every applicant via an actually secure app such as Wire or Matrix.

# Put up stickers/posters within walking distance of your house. Don't put up more than 50. Don't put them in obstructive places, and don't stain the environment with them.

# When you put them up, go with the successful Atomwaffen "join your local Nazis!" approach, but tone it down as much as possible. Nothing provactive. Just put up small stickers with little swastikettes on them that say "Are you National Socialist? Get active today! (WIRE ADDRESS)". Take note of the location of all of them so you can take them down when necessary.

# DON'T USE THE INTERNET FOR ANYTHING! Anything at all! Don't use TELEGRAM either, it has been compromised. It might help to not even give your group a name, because YOU DON'T WANT PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT YOU UNTIL YOU'VE ACTUALLY ACHIEVE ANYTHING!

# In the very, very rare case that you're a rev. NatSoc woman, only accept women into your cell. Likewise, don't accept women into your cell if you're male. This is to avoid sexual dynamics which will distract everyone and their comradery. Sorry Andrew Anglin and your imaginary friends, but the white sharia brainrot is counterproductive at best and pathetic at worst. Our Aryan women share our courage, though they are of course women, a completely different type of man. That being said, as Rockwell is quoted, "TO HELL WITH THE RIGHT-WING"; TO HELL WITH THE ALT-RIGHT!

# DON'T TELL ANYONE. DON'T SAY ANYTHING ONLINE, DON'T INVITE A NEW MEMBER LATER ON, EVEN IF YOU HAVE A FRIEND WHO IS A KEEN REV. NATSOC, DON'T EVEN TELL HIM ABOUT YOUR GROUP. SERIOUSLY. DON'T TELL YOUR GIRLFRIEND, YOUR MOM OR YOUR OLDER BROTHER. IT'S THAT SIMPLE.

# In the case of, say, a family member interrupting a meetup, make it out like you're actually a weak movementarian book club-like affair, that is only getting together because of the objective and noticed-by-normies oppression of albeit cringy moderate right-wing movements. Don't ever concede. Even if they agree, they're just another liability on your back. Likewise, do not allow motormouths, that will prance around in SA cosplay, singing Horst-Wessel Lied, and get talked to by deradicalisation police, into your cell. It is a duty of yours to never let them into your cell at all.

# If a member leaves the cell over discord, the whole cell is immediately put at great risk. A member that becomes unaffiliated is instantly a liability to report your (as far as the System is concerned: conspiracy) to police. Keep things like this in mind at all times, and aim to profilerate amongst yourselves the healthiest suspicion and cautiousness possible without edging into paranoia/delusion.

# Remember what you're fighting for.

# Never lose your smile.

# If you do not do anything, do not despair. Despair is death of the soul.

# Use the judgement your ancestors passed down to you. If you believe so dearly in the Aryan spirit, then prove it to others.

# Your words ultimately mean nothing at all to anyone. Only your actions.

# Learn from the failure of others, do not shy away from tales of it because of biased accounts, study successful revolutions, the conditions, etc.

# Check out the American Futurist. Sorry for all the shilling, but, it's worth it.

# The best time to act is now, of course.

# If you disagree with this, just ignore it. It's that simple. Don't embarrass yourself, now.

# You know the rest.
	
I end this with a quote, once again, from Tarrant in his manifesto, that, to me, is the perfect antidote to cowardice, inaction, and paranoia.

"I had seen many pictures and heard many people discuss the cemeteries, but even knowing about these cemeteries in advance, I was still not prepared for the sight.

Simple, white, wooden crosses stretching from the fields beside the roadway, seemingly without end, into the horizon. Their number uncountable, the representation of their loss unfathomable. I pulled my rental car over, and sat, staring at these crosses and contemplating how it was that despite these men and womens sacrifice, despite their bravery, we had still fallen so far.I broke into tears, sobbing alone in the car, staring at the crosses, at the forgotten dead.

Why were we allowing these soldiers deaths to be in vain? Why were we allowing the invaders to conquer us? Overcome us? Without a single shot fired in response?

WHY WON’T SOMEBODY DO SOMETHING?

In front of those endless crosses, in front of those dead soldiers lost in forgotten wars, my despair turned to shame, my shame to guilt, my guilt to anger and my anger to rage.

WHY WON’T SOMEBODY DO SOMETHING?

WHY WON’T SOMEBODY DO SOMETHING?

WHY DON’T I DO SOMETHING?

The spell broke, why don’t I do something?

Why not me?

If not me, then who?

Why them when I could do it myself?"

TL;DR: MAKE YOUR OWN LOCAL NATIONAL SOCIALIST CELL AND BE CLANDESTINE ABOUT IT, FAGGOT!

>>5027
There's a lot of wisdom in this post.
I recommend reading it, even if it is long.
I detect a fair amount of the spirit of Harold Covington in this.

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>>5027
>esoteric is lol
Your loss. But only qualified people should apply, it's not essential to the majority of WN.
>recycling the tarrant shit many years later
The laughable idea that of all the people one could quote about the need to organize and fight, you had to pick the one who conveniently sidelined the Jewish Question entirely.
># Put up stickers/posters within walking distance of your house. Don't put up more than 50. Don't put them in obstructive places, and don't stain the environment with them.
>leave swastikas everywhere across your city block
Nice ((( advice ))) Chaim.
>DONT UES INTRNET!!!
>(ok you can use Wire or Matrix)
Absolutely incoherent.
You also posted that message on internet.
And we will not shut it down, no matter how much you kvetch about it.
>YOU DON'T WANT PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT YOU UNTIL YOU'VE ACTUALLY ACHIEVE ANYTHING!
Because littering your neighborhood with leaflets with swastikas printed on them is certainly not going to have people talk about you at all.
>TL;DR: MAKE YOUR OWN LOCAL NATIONAL SOCIALIST CELL AND BE CLANDESTINE ABOUT IT, FAGGOT!
Glownigger, you don't insult people gratuitously when you want to be taken seriously while pretending being on our side.

>>5037
Oh yeah? So what do you suggest instead?
It's easy to find fault with everything. But we need proactive, realistic solutions to combat White genocide.

>>5037
If you’d offer alternatives to what I was saying I’d appreciate it.
However, I’d like to clarify that what I meant is don’t conspire online. Having a clear-headed, bot and shill-free ideological vanguard like this board is pleasant, even though the kikes will shut it down if they get the opportunity (8ch)

A few swastika stickers will just have a few people talking about it. What is the problem here? Obviously one of them might report it, and then that’s how the feds would get involved, that’s why I suggested taking them down after a week at most.
Matrix and Wire are protocols unlike Telegram which has been compromised.
It’s a shame that this board is so dead. There are a lot of National Socialists on the hell that is 4cuck /pol/. I had to scroll through backpages to find this site.
Honestly, it’s laughable how you can call me a fed all the while endlessly bad-jacketing a comment I wrote that specifically discusses effective strategies to avoid infiltration.
How lame.

>>5037
Tarrant got a few things wrong, and he went after an arguably silly target, but he demonstrated what you can achieve if you actually plan and have balls

>>5037
>"take what you think is true from this, and leave what you don't"

>>5037
>leave swastikas all around your city block
My apologies, I live in a village in rural Wales. One of my least developed suggestions was that one. Definitely change it to suit your environment.

>>5037
>>esoteric is lol
>Your loss. But only qualified people should apply, it's not essential to the majority of WN.
You will never be a real Brahmin.

>>5027
>Matrix
I don't think unfathomably complicated Israeli chat protocols can be considered secure.

>>5049
well, I may be wrong. Any suggestions for something actually secure? The only reason at all is so that new recruits could be interviewed

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>>5048
>you will never be a real hindoo mutt

>>5045
>if you carry many weapons and fire in the general direction of a thick crowd you can kill a lot of people
Nice tip, genius, we would have never guessed.

>>5045
Brenton Tarrant was an Iron Age warrior.
He may not have been a highly strategic thinker, but he saw a crime being committed against his people and lashed out at the most obvious perpetrators.

>>5055
>He may not have been a highly strategic thinker, but he saw a crime being committed against his people and lashed out at the most obvious perpetrators.
So he went after the traitors, politicians and the jews, obviously.

>>5044
>effective strategies to avoid infiltration
<openly display your colors yet pretend it's all clandestine despite the blatant promotion

>>5056
I wish he had. If he did, he'd be among the Greats of political terrorism (not a judgement but a method)

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>>5059
>implying he isn't

>>5066
>implying he is

>>5066
>>5067
Unfortunately, his target selection disqualifies him from the S tire rank, which men like Andres Breivik and various unknown IRA leaders hold.
He gets points for being conscious of his actions, but a fucking boomer and a non-White woman still accidentally chose a more meaningful target. 

He's still a saint though.

>>5077
Tarrant got S rank the alternate way. If Robert Bowers only killed one kike, it would still make him S rank, because killing one kike is a winning ratio. Tarrant shot shitskins, so 50 is more than enough for S rank. Basically, if you're going to kill shitskins, you have to kill at least 10 or 20.

>>5155
No because those 50 Muslims were easily replaced and they exercised no serious political power or influence on the system.
While he earns points for being brave enough to do it, he loses them for his poor target selection.
As for Bowers, again, his targets had no significant political power. They were bringing in shitskins, true. But a huge percentage of jews do this. He deserves praise for taking action but he also deserves criticism for his abysmal target selection. He could have killed a named individual or something but he chose not to. Not good.

>>5156
>he chose not to
False and homosexual.
An elected leftist politician literally fled the Utoya island by boat leaving the younglings to be slaughtered. Cannot remember the name, some norwegian blackshirt could retrieve it please?
Breivik was GOAT, period.
The only bad target is no target.

>>5156
not really true when you consider that the bomb part of his plan failed

>>5159
I never said that Breivik was not S tire. In fact, I am the one who compared him with Al-Quaeda and concluded that he was objectively superior.

>>5163
Tarrant never used a bomb as far as I know.

>>5165
>Tarrant never used a bomb as far as I know.
He bombed, or at least was blamed, for the bombing of the government complex that housed tons of official organizations.
Days after a coincidental bombing drill and days after a Palestine friendship declaration too

>>4841 (OP) 
Antifa did empower Hitler that way. Thanks for noticing. 
>4chan 4chan 4chan 
y u do dis?

>>5159
That poster said Bowers, not Breivik.

>>5166
>He bombed, or at least was blamed, for the bombing of the government complex that housed tons of official organizations
Woah, this is the first time I have even heard of this. I did not know of any New Zealand bombing in recent years. Source?

>>5167
Let's be honest, there isn't that much discussion here as of yet.

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>>5168
My bad.

>>5165
>Tarrant never used a bomb as far as I know.

He had several petrol cans in his car but at the end he was in a hurry and left  the mosque without using them.

>>5166
Never happened.
Breivik bombed government building in Norway (vid related)

>>5172
I wish he had.
Lone shooters do not strike again. At least, they usually don't.
Bombers are more often more committed to long term resistance.

>>5182
boom

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>>5172
>Tarrant didn't, Breivik did
Disregard that post, i suck cocks

>>4841 (OP) 
One big issue I have with accelerationism is how mindless many people are with it. 
It's often used as an excuse for bored 4/pol/ to cheer anything happening, but its very important to be careful about WHAT you accelerate.
Economic accelerationism is all well and good, as it causes short term trouble that can often force peoples' hands to change how they operate.
Racial acceleration is NOT a positive, because the damage it causes is PERMANENT. Five generations from now, the economic trouble of today will be barely remembered, but we will absolutely still be living with the consequences of race mixing.

I don't know if you can trust the average person to distinguish between the right and wrong kind of accelerationism, so its probably better not to support it all together.

>>5234
more like, the biggest problem is natsocs being unable to meet each other.
So many burnt-out Andrew Anglin-tier bums clog up fascist thought spaces that you get to hear about, and this is no coincidence. The progressive disease creeps up on “Alt-Right” undesirable types. It’s never a matter of them “them being wrong” or “them being right”, as pathetic and meaningless a lot of the content that is output by them is — uninteresting condolences and condemnations of actually relevant world events.
After a while of cynicism and the rot that is 4cuck /pol/, the clay of these thoughts becomes a feedback loop, similar to what keeps ChinkTok users on ChinkTok, but with “edgy Alt-Lite content” and Spic Fuentes streams that they can shout “yeah!” to mentally.

Accelerationism is a bit of a stupid, vague concept. When you ask someone who claims to support it to define it in their own terms, they just start defining NSLF/American Futurist/Nazi Guerilla ideology.

We need to purvey a movement of Nazi Guerilla warfare that makes it very clear what it means by “decentralisation”, literally, you and your natsoc friends. We need to purvey an attractive, simple lifestyle and movement, not draped in confusing obfuscated aesthetic bullshit and ((( Telegram ))) tomfoolery. Not outdated, unfunny Alt-right memes that natsoc youth doesn’t give a shit about, bar a few autistic nostalgiatards.
YOUR OWN
CELL.
NAZI
GUERILLA
WARFARE.
What the NSLF actually meant, though of course evolved… what SIEGE actually advocates for, bar Mason’s occasional schizophrenia and Manson-worship. The obstacle is that “accelerationism” isn’t clear — how the fuck are you accelerating downfall? It’s complex and focuses on the crumbling of SYSTEM POWER not the GAIN OF NATSOC POWER which makes it seem like WEAK, DIRECTIONLESS, ANARCHIST TRANNY NONSENSE.
And most of all, we need to make it clear that we don’t appreciate cowards, moderates, degenerates, and that we don’t need the Internet for organisation one bit.

I have formulated my plan, which I invite you, who somehow found this dead-end, low PPH forum on some altchan. A very simple one.

• I will make images with checklists and instructions on formulating your own natsoc cell
• I will spread these on a variety of social media, including places where zoomer fascists, which there are a lot of, hang out, such as ChinkTok, but also Twitter, Jewtube, etc.
• I will make posters too and put them up. I will upload them to this forum for you to do the same.

It ultimately means nothing what you say. I use Anglin as an example because he’s just the worst of the worst, an absolute motormouth slob.
It means nothing what you say, it only matters what you DO.
Your dopamine loops, troon-level addiction to fashy media, occasional controversial comments, etc. mean and will never mean ANYTHING to ANYONE. Get a fucking life. Make a difference or die. I won’t make you do either.
This pathetic disorganisation leads to embarrassing, chronic idleness. How much do you really fucking care about your race? Do you just like saying that?

It’s so easy to tell a fed IRL.
Just get off the fucking Internet if you’re not helping others develop their cell, or helping develop your own.

>>5234
because come on, they’re just fucking saying words. They’ve done jackshit to the trajectory… for all the “””Injektkreigfueurfedwaffen division unit”””s I’ve heard counter-terrorism faggots whine about NOT A SINGLE ORTHODOX WAFFEN CELL HAS BLOWN UP A SINGLE TRANSFORMER. ONLY FUCKING RUSSEL AND THE ACTUAL ATOMWAFFEN THAT ACTUALLY KINDA WAS KIND OF GETTING A LITTLE READY TO DO A FEW THINGS BEFORE THE SATANIC PANIC WAS DOING THAT. WHAT IS THIS INSANITY? WHAT IS THIS LARP?

>>5234
no, white genocide hasn’t been slowed, you don’t fucking slow a bullet, you block it, or you die, you don’t go onto honeypot.org and say OMG guyz I totally supportz kevlar vestz guyz what the fuck is that achieving?

>>5237
>>5238
>>5239
Cells only form around a vision and a leadership. In such times it would require anything from an international organization to mere national ones. For now it's all remained nice, I haven't seen anything solid taking shape, snitches included. Even within major far-right parties there have been seldom underground radicals. There is simply no true racial White leadership with any sufficient experience in warfare yet. It's all talks, posing and shitposting in comment sections. Whites have been truly neutered and domesticated at large. How pathetic really, as if there didn't exist White guys who knew how to fight and begged to get behind a leader to get shit done. It's rather strange how we all seem stuck in some kind of lulling limbo, a mental gray sludge of total inaction. The modern world creates these conditions with comfort, consumption and entertainment, the latter not coming from Holywood but from one's online activity and reactions to current events. It's still entertainment nonetheless. Thankfully, UK has moved further into the dystopia by making this kind of entertainment criminal. You get a minimum of two years behind bars for the slightest pro-White or racist activity. This is where we are now. It's bad. It's so bad it's actually good. It will keep radicalizing people.

>>5245
hehe, from the UK myself :-D
Nothing was ever going to happen in comfortable conditions.
Fuck going after transformers, if guerillas went after servers…

>>5021
Seems like this thread actually took a turn for the better after I left (>>4859)
The American Futurist is great.
And OP really needs to get off 4chan/Discord and stop sucking his own dick with Covington podcasts.
>>5234
I agree. Accelerationism is often misunderstood by people with big egos (mostly those against it but also by those for it).

>>5234
>It's often used as an excuse for bored 4/pol/ to cheer anything happening
This is too real.

>>5293
What's your problem, bro?

>>5293
thanks buddy
any suggestions for actually accelerationist spaces like TAF?
I had to search really hard to find TAF in the first place. Telegram isn’t an option anymore; IM is long dead, 4/pol/ has literally been eviscerated, and I’m not making an account for any MSSM.
I asked the other guys in my cell and they didn’t have any suggestions.
I’m mostly asking because I’m interested in the state of the movement and it’s so refreshing to finally find ideological output from real natsocs that have balls like TAF. If not that’s fine.
Hail victory!

>>5299
>What's your problem, bro?
I grew up and still live in a libtard hellhole. I've become jaded from the state of the movement in this region (egotistical retards like OP who think they're outsmarting the system by limiting themselves while mocking people who make real sacrifices).
>>5309
Telegram is still the best we've got. Recently there's been a push toward a platform called SimpleX by a group called "Agency International" but I wouldn't count on it, Terrorgram already attempted a similar migration to a platform called Tamtam and was banned on the spot. The CEO of SimpleX already made a statement that he intends to do the same.
There's also been a push toward VK, but VK was already popular among IronMarch and they where all banned.
Things are looking pretty bleak right now because it's election season, feds are pulling all kinds of bullshit. I recommend laying low until things settle down. I have friends in jail right now just for saying mean things online.
When it comes to Telegram though how do I find you? After the Terrorgram arrests and AI's push toward SimpleX a lot of chats have been deleted. And I feel like this discussion would be better in such an environment.

>>5319
I am OP and you are projecting a lot.
I do not believe I mocked anyone for making a sacrifice. I stated that most "accelerationists" who talk about their "accelerationism" are only saying that whatever current thing the regime or shitlibs are doing is based because "it'll wake up the normies"
I took an entirely neutral position. If accelerationism actually is the way, then do something to rock the boat beyond talking about it on 4chan. If it is not, then talking about how based it is that the regime is importing another 10 million spics is worse than useless.

>>5319
Despite all this talk of cells and decentralization you retards still haven't figured out how to communicate without using monolithic honeypots. Have fun sending all your unencrypted messages attached with a phone number straight to intelligence agencies.

>>5321
I am not opposed to maintaining Op-Sec for actual operations and actually sensitive information, but what info could you possibly be sharing on Telegram that would land you in trouble with the organs if it is decrypted?
Don't talk about illegal acts online. That's step 1 of not being a retard.

>>5320
Lol 
All you ever do is project every time I talk to you. You literally said multiple times you only larp on 4chan and Discord, while constantly making shit up about what I "advocate".
(again I think this discussion would be better over instant messaging)
>>5322
Decent post for once.

>>5322
>I am not opposed to maintaining Op-Sec for actual operations and actually sensitive information, but what info could you possibly be sharing on Telegram that would land you in trouble with the organs if it is decrypted?
<I have friends in jail right now just for saying mean things online.
<After the Terrorgram arrests and AI's push toward SimpleX a lot of chats have been deleted.
If they practiced the absolute basics of opsec most of them would have never been arrested.
>Don't talk about illegal acts online. That's step 1 of not being a retard.
No one who uses an obvious honeypot is smart enough to follow step 1.

>>5326
Literally the only ones arrested where already doxed beforehand and they never actually said anything illegal. It's literally just election season bs and they'll be released as soon as the case is taken to court.

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skip to paragraph 4 if you don't want the preamble about Rome

I was contemplating the Roman Empire, as we all do. In particular, Hermann's (Armenius) successful revolt against them. Hermann was able to, as a trusted Roman advisor no less, mobilize and organize an army of ~20,000 and ambush a Roman army at least of that size, destroy it, and liberate Germania. Let us just contemplate the logistics of this feat.
While serving as the commander of a significant Roman auxiliary army, Armenius contacted the leadership of at least 7 tribes. Mind you, this isn't as simple as playing a videogame where you press the button and ally with the singular AI of a tribe. Actual Germanic tribes were run by people, potentially thousands of local leaders, councils, and the commoners themselves. Germanic tribes were in many cases governed by folkmoots or assemblies of all the free men of the polity. 
What I am getting at here is that there is absolutely no way you could keep this rebellion a secret between Armenius + 7 absolute kings.
This revolt was common knowledge among at least 7 major tribes and therefore, common knowledge among most Germans of 9 AD.

Yet the Roman governor Publius Quinctilius Varus had absolutely no clue it was happening until his men were cut off and surrounded in Teutoburg Forest. To put this in a modern context, imagine a scenario where something like 30-40% of the White American population (rough estimate of the % of German population at the time based on eyeballing a map) is actively supporting a revolt against ZOG. This revolt would common knowledge for something like maybe >60% (pure guess based on eyeballing trade routes of ancient Germanic) of the population for at least a year before a shot is fired.
Yet when it goes down, the kikes are taken by total surprise.
Just imagine that.

It's ludicrous. There is simply no way in which this regime wouldn't figure out what was going on with so many people in the loop. Someone would blab. It's like going to the "tribe" of Kansas and meeting with the "Folksmoot" of their government and convincing a some townhall style meeting of people to rebel yet not one person telling the feds. Not gonna happen.
And yet the success of this rebellion isn't unique at all. The Romans were routinely, in fact usually caught completely off guard by rebellions. France, the Holy Roman Empire, England, Russia, China, Persia, every empire of the past was routinely surprised by peasant and ethnic revolts. In fact, it's not even a deep past thing. In the 20th century, decades long insurgencies were sustained by ethnic minorities like the Basque and Irish and Corsicans against industrialized democratic police states and yet the core element of the revolting population did not blab to the regime upon first hearing a rebellious thought. 

The point of all of this is to evidence that there is something fundamentally different about the modern American (& west European) population. The very notion that a large subset of the population could openly plot a rebellion and catch the regime off guard is ludicrous. Why is everyone so willing, even eager to inform on his neighbors over something as idiotic as not wearing a fucking covid mask while men in 9 AD spent at least a year not telling the Romans that Armenius was running around Germany preaching rebellion?
I think that the main issue is that the American/west European population views the jewish regime as the legitimate authority. Despite all this talk of hating the government, even conservatives believe that the system works and even represents them. I'm not saying that I have stood on a soap box and preached armed rebellion at my local hunting club, but in a thousand conversations I have gotten the gyst that if I did, I'd not receive a warm reception. I suspect you know this too or you'd be doing it. 
The Germans of 9 AD, the English Peasants of 1381, and the Basques of the 1970s did not view their rulers as legitimate. So when rebellion was pitched, they didn't blab. 

Therefore, in order to get out of the death camp that is White genocide, we need to move our folk away from viewing the regime as representatives of the population. They are occupiers, exploiters, enemies. 
Obviously, it would be just terrible to actually want a rebellion against the sacrosanct US government. But I have often heard a counter-argument to what I just wrote that goes like:
>who cares about the wider population? History is written by determined minorities. White nationalists should form tiny cells that shoot out the electric grid. Once power goes down, there will be riots and somehow this leads to us emerging from the chaos as absolute masters of America.
(Again, I disavow actually doing illegal crimes that break the law.)

This is unrealistic in a multitude of ways. 
Firstly, if the population rioting against a power outage leads to the regime collapsing, why would that not apply to us? 
Secondly, why would that even lead to the regime collapsing? Maybe there would be a recession, but the regime has nigh infinite resources and we do not. If rioting peasants are going to look for someone to restore power, they wouldn't look to tiny White nationalist cells. 
Thirdly, who is even rioting here? This "plan" as I understand it is to get niggers to riot. But if niggers are rioting against the regime, then the regime will just shoot them dead and our own population will cheer on the regime. Jews don't give a shit about niggers. If they become a threat to their power, they'll just shoot them. Ironically, the only subset of our population that would oppose this are the shitlibs. Is the plan to get them to initiate an insurgency? What would that accomplish?
The entire "shoot transformers" meme is reactive and leads nowhere.

There is simply no realistic way for a tiny percentage of the population to overthrow this regime. We need at least a large percentage of the White population to actively oppose the regime. Not write about how much they hate taxes on twitter, but to actively abstain from participating in the regime and its institutions. To be in a state of mind where they do not immediately call the police when someone talks about non-legal actions.

>>6165
Arminius and his people didn't live in an hyper-individualist neo-liberal hellhole like the US nowadays where everyone are taught to be "unique" and "competitive", why you are special and the other guys suck, which is why it was easy for them to have it kept as a secret from the Romans.

Your Average Joe or what we call the 'lemming' otherwise looked up to leaders of the tribes instead as they didn't have the television or any other instrument of the institutional media complex for their brains to absorb their information from.
They also didn't have sophisticated indoctrinated centers (as in schools) to state what trends, idea, lifestyles it wants them to do.

>There is simply no realistic way for a tiny percentage of the population to overthrow this regime. We need at least a large percentage of the White population to actively oppose the regime. 
It must be cleared that mass public support is an indicator of success, not 'prerequisite' for success.
Revolutionaries like Lenin and his fanatical commies were relatively small compared to the Mensheviks and the White Guard Monarchists.
But they had the most productive people out of all (generally coming from rural areas), they convinced already-alienated mechanics and electricians who in return happily returned the favor by sabotaging the Russian side during WW1.
Numerous !=! Productive.
An group of one hundred random retards can't outwork one quality and productive activist.

Also I'm pretty sure no one outside of Kaczynskist circles would actually want to sabotage the power in order to achieve Total Aryan Victory, it would be retarded to try taking control of a huge country like America without industrialization and electricity since the Chinks and Russians could just invade easily and gain it all.
The consensus I've heard among the NS circles are generally either small cells via guerilla style or the another option which the plan is to re-learn and  repeat Lenin's tactics, the tactics of Hamas and Hezbollah, generally any revolutionary tactic and then apply them to impoverished areas like West Virginia.

>>6172
That is true. The rootedness of traditional societies plays a major role in the success of rebellions. Sadly, I cannot envision a way we can engineer this back without having taken power first. Though, perhaps a severe economic collapse could snap people back into reality and rootedness bourn out of poverty would develop organically.
>small cells via guerilla style or the another option which the plan is to re-learn and  repeat Lenin's tactics, the tactics of Hamas and Hezbollah, generally any revolutionary tactic and then apply them to impoverished areas like West Virginia.
The communists had already attained widespread support among unions, farmers, and soldiers long before Lenin arrived in Finland. And Hezbollah is the definition of movement politics. It's well known that they maintain a staunchly loyal population base through providing charity which the Lebanese state fails to deliver. They are most akin to Armenius' rebellion against Rome. 

The problem with guerilla movements that lack popular support is they lack the ability to draw strength from the people. Not just the ability to take shelter, but the intel and physical support that the population provide is essential. Imagine the success of a pro-White cell that conducts terror attacks against any target vs one which strictly limits itself in target selection to reduce civilian casualties, yet also enjoys strong support among the West Virginian population. There is no controversy, the latter would be much more successful. 
The former has no cushion and would operate on a knife's edge, one mistake away from being wiped out by authorities. 
As for the Russian revolution, that was made possible only by at least 2 generations of political work by leftist and jewish agitators. 

Furthermore, imagine the long term future for said cell. The goal is ultimately to form a new government for White people. Which is more likely to attain this? A group which operates under the assumption that the support of the people is irrelevant or the group which focuses on this? Again, no controversy. Intuition suggests the latter.
Even if the alienated cell somehow did overthrow the regime, how could it even take power after dealing the final blow except by engaging in yet another war against the very population we're fighting to free?

>>6174
I would imagine the small cell option (with you and your three buddies that you knew all your life) would be a viable option when you're dealing with the institutional power-agencies like FBI which agents are unneeded to infiltrate various network of (potential) informants could do the job.
Times are changing however, when Trump squeezes the FBI and other agencies out by replacing them with incompetent unqualified loyalists with zero experience, plus his buddy Elon could de-power the government into much more smaller.

A little reminder that Ancaps, Lolbertarians and Social Democrats are the best useful idiots that NS would ever ask for, as candidates for elections, since those two are for small "governments" which couldn't fight insurgent organizations very well and the latter accelerates the dismantlement of countries so well. that only will then our cause seem the most attractive to the masses and we will have guaranteed victory only if we are more competent than the other radical groups.
Back then, the Social Democrats fucked up Germany so bad that Hitler only won public support then after and got elected. So one could only hope for Bernie-Sanders type Democrat to get elected.

Also distinguish movement, which kind?
Lenin didn't recruit random leftoids as given his animosity towards the broader Mensheviks, not without some strong vetting first, and I doubt other revolutionary groups like the Jihadists also did the same.
Smaller movements that are packed with smaller mass but more muscle will achieve more than any sort of mass-movement. (as it grows with more mass in the most literal sense, aka fatties.)

>>6177
>when Trump squeezes the FBI and other agencies out by replacing them with incompetent unqualified loyalists with zero experience, plus his buddy Elon could de-power the government into much more smaller.
*if
I have almost zero faith that Trump will rock the boat he is now captain of.
Though, I will pray to ancient Aryan Gods that he does.

Lenin didn't create the Russian revolution. He highjacked it. By the time he stepped off his train, there was already a raging hurricane of political revolution.

>>6165
>To be in a state of mind where they do not immediately call the police when someone talks about non-legal actions.
You just need dudes in Racist costumes to show up to neighborhoods inconsistently and tell people how to kill cops. People will become desensitized if you repeatedly tell them what makes zogbots scared to go to work.

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Original Racist meme by me.

>>6174
>Though, perhaps a severe economic collapse could snap people back into reality and rootedness bourn out of poverty would develop organically.
>economic
You're making a very common mistake, one cuckservatives make all the damn time. You're thinking in purely economic terms when you should be thinking in racial terms. Let me be clear on this: Economic hardship is likely to cause unrest, but no crisis will ever get John Q. Public to actually revolt. He will grumble, he will complain, he might post angry tirades on his Facebook page, but at the end of the day if his basic wants are fulfilled he will not lift a finger. If the average guy on the street has a beer in his hand, a working TV to watch sportsball and soap operas and some food in the fridge he will tolerate any indignity. The only way they will ever get off their asses and do something is if their backs are against the wall. When niggers are roaming the streets in packs raping and killing Whites in broad daylight and the authorities refuse to intervene, when the average person feels their life is directly threatened, and if there is a visible alternative to the authorities that will adamantly refuse to help them, only then you have their support.

>>6513
This, incidentally, was one of the strategies of the Taliban. They would take over villages at night and let the Americans take them back in the day. The purpose was to make it clear that if you collaborate with the enemy, you will be killed at night.

>>6529
>no crisis will ever get John Q. Public to actually revolt. He will grumble, he will complain, he might post angry tirades on his Facebook page, but at the end of the day if his basic wants are fulfilled he will not lift a finger.
If there is a serious economic collapse, his basic wants will not be fulfilled.

That said, I agree that it's possible that White men will never revolt until niggers are shooting people dead in his own neighborhood. The trouble is that we have established a tradition of White flight here in this country. So White men will flee and concede and surrender until we are down to the last White suburb, then he will flee to the hills. The earlier we resist, the better.

>>6536
>If there is a serious economic collapse, his basic wants will not be fulfilled.
Take a look at the Great Depression. ((( Big Biz ))) guys were living in the lap of luxury and being decadent degenerates as usual while the average American family was struggling not to die from starvation. It didn't lead to a nationwide uprising where bankers got dragged out of their homes and hanged in public places. The average American was simply focused on trying to survive to the next day, only worrying about themselves, their families and maybe their local communities (admittedly penny auctions is something you won't ever see in modern times). We saw better results in Germany because they were fresh from losing a war and suffering a period where the people was not just starved but humiliated and those responsible rubbed it in their faces. There was also an attempt at a Communist revolution that exacerbated the public unrest, and the widespread degeneracy and indignity was the perfect accelerant to make things truly blow up when our mutual friend stood up and got started.

What it boils down to is that you have to knock normalfags out of the "got mine, everyone else get fucked" mindset. He'll try to worry, again, about himself, his family, maybe his friends and local community; but he'll try to "do his own thing" and stay neutral, hoping the upheaval doesn't affect his little corner of the world. If he's made to feel that he can't afford to sit on the fence, that whatever happens will affect him no matter how much he ducks his head, and most importantly if the consequnces he fears are immediately personal and physical, only then will he recover his manhood and start taking action.

In short, it takes a special cauldron of economic downfall, social unrest, political violence and proper propagandizing in order to get the normalfags on your side. Like you said however, the earlier it's knocked into their heads that they have to stand up and act, the better. There are less and less places to run back to, and our population is shrinking every year. If not now, when? If not us, who?

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>>6545
All of the historical phenomenons of which an political movement took power ONLY generally during economic crisis, that is the absolute and most necessary prerequisite, humiliation and alienation are secondary to it.
The cauldron does taste nice, but without the soup however of which is total economic collapse, it would just be the carrots and other vegetables.
I'm sorry to say, but us guys only take power when things go to absolute shit to the point when you couldn't afford to live in an apartment even.
Trump's victory should had alluded you that promising cheap prices, cheap gas, so cheap it's almost free makes lemmings go WILD for you. 
Guess who also utilized that strategy... Lenin and his "Peace, Land, and Bread".
They never gave any dog-shit about race at all until it was pointed out to them that cheap prices go away when Haitians invade in. Just as they also never gave two shits about LGBT and other sorts of faggotry either, generally any sort of social issue ever.

Greece didn't experience an war humiliation from other nations when they got their debt to the European Union (and into to Germany in particular),
YET out of this arose the Golden Dawn who were an developing parallel society to which where the System couldn't provide any kind of service like food banks and private security, the Golden Dawn could AND would.
Ancient Rome also didn't experience war humiliation when Christianity came to exist, the Church provided social services and as a reward, they were rewarded with recruits. 
They used pseudo-pacifism to excuse themselves out to participate in the Roman military, terrorized Pagans and destroyed the temples.

Generally, the Great Depression would seem insignificant to you since political movements get overlooked and forgotten as days go by. 
But even that is not true, as the Great Depression DID produce any political movements in the US, the German-American Bund comes to mind, the Silver Legion of America, the Black Legion (Which were a more violent offshoot of the KKK) that came to be in 1925 became more popular during the GD.
Even Huey Long's movement "Share Our Wealth" was success pretty much until he got assassinated.
Now why all of them didn't succeed comes down to some particular issues that may float over the head of observers if they didn't examine closely.

Inaction, lack of revolutionary fervor, lack of proper understanding of their own worldview (given that Fritz Julius Kuhn said that George Washington, an liberal ideologue was the first "fascist"), Electoralism and reformism instead of being revolutionary.
As it seems, fanaticism with cruelty and merciless to their adversaries along with knowing your own fucking worldview ARE the spices that make the cauldron taste really special.
Bolshevism, the singular will and an particular manifestation of Marxism won Russia all over the White Guards and other Leftists due to their cruelty, promising and providing cheap shit and absolute fanaticism.

>>6174
>The problem with guerilla movements that lack popular support is they lack the ability to draw strength from the people. Not just the ability to take shelter, but the intel and physical support that the population provide is essential. Imagine the success of a pro-White cell that conducts terror attacks against any target vs one which strictly limits itself in target selection to reduce civilian casualties, yet also enjoys strong support among the West Virginian population. There is no controversy, the latter would be much more successful. 
>The former has no cushion and would operate on a knife's edge, one mistake away from being wiped out by authorities. 
Ask Ned Kelly how well that worked out for him. It's all fun and games until some normalfag decides the money reward for turning you and your lads in is too juicy to pass up. Or he shits himself in fear when the System threatens severe consequences for those who give aid and comfort to "racist terrorists" and turns you and your lads in to be a good little goy.

>>6564
Ned Kelly would tell you it was still worth the effort, faggot.

>>6565
>Ned Kelly would tell you it was still worth the effort, faggot.
Missing the point. The point is that you can't rely on normalfags for protection or anything else, because they have no loyalty except to themselves and by extension the System. If they believe they can profit from turning you out to the authorities, they will. If they fear the System more than you (and they will unless you're already winning) they will turn you out to save their own hides. Even if you decide to go on a campaign of terror against snitches and informants to cower them into silence, you can never be 100% sure they will not turn on you. A different approach is needed.

>>6177
You have go back to 4chan, you stupid glownigger. 8chan called out trump for the BS ziocuck he was, nothing changed after 4 years of him being president. 8chan called this out in 2015 when major powerful jews started supporting him.

> when Trump squeezes the FBI and other agencies out by replacing them with incompetent unqualified loyalists with zero experience, plus his buddy Elon could de-power the government into much more smaller.
You type like a police officer. You are all terrible writers.

>>6545
> The average American was simply focused on trying to survive to the next day, only worrying about themselves, their families and maybe their local communities
This is sadly true and I believe that the blame for this lies in the strong sense of state legitimacy which the people at that time and even today felt towards the government. This must break. So long as the people feel that the government is representative of their interests, they will continue to support it passively and actively. The German people did not appear to view the "centerist" parties of Weimar Germany as anything more than a cabal of oligarchs. 

I don't dispute that we need to destroy the selfish extremist individualism. Or rather, this cringe boomer mentality that permeates everything in this culture. How we accomplish this is beyond me. And I agree with you that privation may be the fix.
But ultimately, the core problem is this irrational view that the American regime is representative of the public. This has to be broken or the people will never resist.

To reiterate using what >>6561 wrote, you need more than just economic trouble. We need to focus on breaking the chain that binds the people to the regime. This chain, which is the feeling of state legitimacy, is mentally incapacitating our people.

>>6564
>Ask Ned Kelly how well that worked out for him.
That in no way invalidates what you greentexted.
Had Ned Kelly had more loyalty among the local population, he would have undeniably been in a better position.
>>6566
>You can never be 100% certain that someone, somewhere will not rat
Okay, well, if you are hated by everyone, you have a pretty high chance that someone will rat.
But if the people hate the regime and love you, your chances of being ratted out are much, much smaller.
Again, I don't follow your point.

>>6572
>Had Ned Kelly had more loyalty among the local population, he would have undeniably been in a better position.
He had widespread loyalty. It took one greedy fuck hoping for a reward to rat him out and bring his gang to ruin. The moral of the story is don't rely on normalfags, they don't buy into Robin Hood stories. You need to setup your own clandestine networks and hide them not just from the enemy but also your normalfag neighbors.

>Okay, well, if you are hated by everyone, you have a pretty high chance that someone will rat.
It's not a matter of love or hate. I doubt anyone even among the most brainwashed and moronic normalfags love the System. It's just that their carrots are juicier and their sticks bigger, and it won't be any different until you're in a strong enough position to challenge their rule. For instance, on top of the System's promise to fulfill basic wants in general, how are you going to beat the System's promises of monetary rewards for snitching on "suspected extremists in your local neighborhood", or extra rations or whatever else as the case may be? Hell, there were a lot of assholes who snitched on their neighbors and even their own families during the Covid quarantine years and the aftermath of J6 'for free', simply to grandstand on social media and enjoy the dopamine rush of being a good golem. Furthermore, if a civil war situation is reached and the System also threatens the population with severe consequences should they give aid and comfort to "nazi terrorists" or talk about how they will suspect anyone who doesn't report whoever gives signs of "racist or antisemitic attitudes and affiliations" of complicity and punish them accordingly; how are you going to make them fear your reprisals for snitching more than the System's threats for not snitching? Normfalgas only respond to the dominant power, and we're a long way from being recognized as the dominant power. It can be done, but it'll take a lot of work before there's a meaningful shift.

>>6573
>The moral of the story is don't rely on normalfags,
That's like saying, "the moral of the story is don't drink water"
It is not possible to maintain an insurgent force without support from the people. You can maintain a tiny terrorist cell without it if you have a foreign state backer. Which is so unlikely for White nationalists that I don't consider it.

>how are you going to beat the System's promises of monetary rewards for snitching on "suspected extremists in your local neighborhood"
Same thing, carrot and stick. The IRA managed to not get ratted out very often despite operating in the open in many cases. That's due to public support from normalfags. The stick is killing traitors. Or at least kneecapping them. 

>how are you going to make them fear your reprisals for snitching more than the System's threats for not snitching?
If the penalty for snitching on rebels is the same as the penalty for snitching on the system, then it'll be up to the individuals to determine for themselves who they like better. Which brings us right back to square 1: You cannot conduct an insurgency without the support of at least a sizeable portion of the people.

>>6568
You are the blackest gorilla nigger with the shittiest reading comprehension ever. No one here is endorsing Trump for his worldview or ideology,
Only how useful he is to Accelerationists and how much damage he could provide to the nation.
Go back to cripplekikechan.

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>>6607
>Only how useful he is to Accelerationists and how much damage he could provide to the nation.
>usefull
>to accelerationists
He pacified all possible non-radicalized nationalist supporters by making them believe the system still works, and the jews let him win the election again after a lot of the electorate lost faith in the democratic system in 2020. Faith in democracy restored and wokies bashed, how's that for helpful Accelerationism? His victory made sure the people willing to rise up simply won't do it because they are back at believing they can win elections. Retards like you think you can overthrow governments and get rid of jewish power by posting on an imageboard. He destroyed the momentum wave the decent folk had going by turning anti-immigration and anti-weimar policy into an Israel dicksucking contest.

>No one here is endorsing Trump for his worldview or ideology
Never in my post i said that you endorsed him, it was stated clearly in my post that your endorsement was of his possible benefits to Accelerationists, which is something very different than what your accusing me of. Despite the fact that what i said is something completely different than what is written in your reply to my post.

>>6608
>Faith in democracy restored
People keep saying this but I haven't seen it IRL.
Most of those who saw the fraud of democracy in 2020 still think it's worthless. Only those who thought it was a fluke rather than a systemic problem have had "faith restored", and those lemmings never really lost faith.

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>>6608
>He pacified all possible non-radicalized nationalist supporters by making them believe the system still works, and the jews let him win the election again after a lot of the electorate lost faith in the democratic system in 2020. Faith in democracy restored and wokies bashed, how's that for helpful Accelerationism? His victory made sure the people willing to rise up simply won't do it because they are back at believing they can win elections. He destroyed the momentum wave the decent folk had going by turning anti-immigration and anti-weimar policy into an Israel dicksucking contest.
He only pacified anyone who is still foolish enough to believe him, actual NS radicals just move on and go on to recruit any potential radicals to their worldview.
His presence alone heavily increased political polarization. Anyone that were apolitical are now driven into the two camps of "Hyperborean Chuds" and "Leftist Antifa SJWs". Fear and dread are present in the atmosphere to the point where not even some Joe that's living in the bumfuck of nowhere is unaffected.
The George Floyd nigger BLM riots happened under his reign and rampaged across the states, thus planting the seeds of radicalization into anyone affected. Trump retreated into his bitch bunker instead of dealing with them directly.
Trump pardoned nigger rappers instead of his own supporters during his last month.
I think it's fair to say that at least ONE MAGAoid has been disappointed as a result if not many of them more.

Instead of fretting like you're doing right now, it is better to contemplate how much could he fuck it all up. There are good reasons and even better of a chance that he really would fuck it all up hard in his second term compared to others.
He's got Shitlibs and Leftists fedposting about him all over, will they actually follow up on their death threats however remains to be seen.
He's a huge tariff-pusher, that alone makes him more worthy of an Accelerationist candidate in my eyes relatively compared to Kamala.
Tarriffs indirectly increase your daily prices, the tax he would impose on any foreign companies would just increase the prices of the daily goods in return thus worsening the standard of living for the average citizen. The Tariff Act of 1930 while not directly causing the Great Depression helped sunk it further.
You worry too much for what is just four years, it's his last term and I doubt his successors are charismatic as he is, he will only just hasten the inevitable collapse and it's coming sooner than you may think since they actually admitted to it themselves that it will come in 2031. (https://archive.ph/uQXsn)

>Retards like you think you can overthrow governments and get rid of jewish power by posting on an imageboard
I don't, why would I tell you my plans on this chink-basket weaving board and why would you NEED to know? :^)
I would say instead that it is more possible and successful to get rid of jewish power by using forums rather, than it is for imageboards.
In fact, the only reason (You) and I are discussing Accelerationism at all is thanks to Ironmarch at all, whom did just fine during Trump's first term until the FSB forcibly shut them down. Stephan Baele's tactics would never work on there in million of years, because his plan to subvert fundamentally relies on the inclusive and open nature of imageboards, Forums with a heavy emphasis on vetting and quality checking exclude such "people" (Bots) and tactics.

>Never in my post i said that you endorsed him, it was stated clearly in my post that your endorsement was of his possible benefits to Accelerationists, which is something very different than what your accusing me of. Despite the fact that what i said is something completely different than what is written in your reply to my post.
In what fucking way does calling me a glownigger and telling me that I "write like a police officer" is stated clearly? All you did was do these. It doesn't matter what Cripplechan /pol/ had done in 2015 because they fucking turned into a shithole banning literature threads as Imkampfy had shat his Turkroach pants fearing the very thought of Anons discovering and applying the wisdom of their forefathers (Hitler, Codreanu, Rockwell, Mosley) would ever invalidate Imkampfy's crab bucket derad cult.
And why is it bad to write like a "police officer"? Are you ESL?
You're just preaching to the choir, yeah no fucking shit he is an Zionist candidate.

>>6611
>the inevitable collapse
>it will come in 2031
Big if true. From the NPR article...
>Unless changes are made before then to shore up the program, 66 million Social Security recipients would see their benefits cut by 23-25%.
Does this constitute a "collapse"?
>the Medicare trust fund
>That could result in an 11% pay cut to health care providers
Does this constitute a "collapse"?

>>6610
Exactly. I voted for Trump not expecting much and if anything the cabinet shenanigans so far have been even worse than I expected. I'm pretty much blackpilled on the future of America as a coherent entity until some viable revolutionary or at least secessionist movement arises. Right now, I don't see one. PF is a joke and they're basically the only name that matters in American WN

>>6614
>I'm pretty much blackpilled on the future of America as a coherent entity
I am even more blackpilled than that. I truly have no idea what direction to go because all of it seems like a dead-end under the current conditions. I suppose just maintain fitness so I don't die tired.

>>6614
>>6615
Most of the men with any sort of balls or agency all seemed to have went to the left. We all know that it was a left-wing faggot who shot the heal insurance CEO. His motives were left wing. It is like this retarded species, all races, are more likely to fight for their privileges to be hedonistic degenerates than their own existence. I guess National Socialism/fascism completely ignores the human condition: people will only do anything if it personally affects their comforts and needs. The only reason why it found success in Germany was  because men needed to pimp their wives out so that their families didn't starve. If it was like now, same shit would happen. 

Hell, I knew nothing was going to happen as a result of the vax. No mass die offs. No people suddenly becoming sterile. Just a bunch of controlled sheep getting a rushed, poorly tested pharma drug. I have been floxxed by ciprofloxacin, which causes even more damage than the vax side effects, mind you. That was when I came to the conclusion that pharma is for profit, and thus will rush dangerous drugs that kill or maim people, so long as the chances are low enough that people do not notice, to please their shareholders. That is a part of corporate Jewish law: fiduciary responsibility. 

The great reset will not be some big flashy communist kike revolution/ depopulation event. All that will happen is that the boomers will sell their properties in order to cover the costs of their retirement homes. Meanwhile, millennials, now in  their forties to fifties, get reamed up the ass yet again for the umpteenth time in a row. Collapses never happen. 

First world countries are surprisingly resistant to collapse for a multitude of reasons. People think peak oil will eventually lead to the downfall of ZOG. ZOG can just drill deeper. There are enough resources in this planet that, by the time humanity's long extinct, they'll still be there in abundance.

Wanna here something even truly blackpilling I have realized? With AI, the Jews and the non-White slave races can maintain advanced civilization without us very easily. AI can invent the new technologies. AI can make the new scientific discoveries. Hell, give them a few decades with AI and they can even leave the planet and potentially colonize the solar system or even the galaxy. Super intelligent AI will be the killing blow to the White race. Artificial intelligences have the potential to make even the smartest, most brilliant men of our race look like drooling cretins. 

Against this sort of power, the odds are borderline impossible. The only scenarios where people are victorious against this are complete fiction because the protagonist has as much plot armor as fucking Batman.

>>6616
Is this a bot?

>>6611
>Anyone that were apolitical are now driven into the two camps of "Hyperborean Chuds" and "Leftist Antifa SJWs"
>implying everyone who is anti-woke is chudzil
delusional


>The Tariff Act of 1930 while not directly causing the Great Depression helped sunk it further.
Actually, FDR directly caused the depression with the tariffs because nobody abroad would buy american products anymore. The economy was recovering before the tariffs were implemented, and after the tariffs it skyrocketed. FDR literally caused the great depression with communist economic policy.


>You're just preaching to the choir, yeah no fucking shit he is an Zionist candidate.
Everything you write in the last paragraph is nothing but a straw-man, secondly, the last paragraph of this post stands>>6608. I never accused you of supporting trump, i said you are a retard if you think he benefits Accelerationists. What i said stands.

>Forums with a heavy emphasis on vetting and quality checking exclude such "people" (Bots) and tactics.
Actually it relies on incompetence of the mod team, stormfront was subverted and so was every other website.

If you enforce board rules, its a better system than any other. /fascist/ is for fascists only, /v/ is for videogames. Politics get banned on /v/. Everything that doesn't support fascism gets banned on /fascist/, there problem solved.


>>6614
>PF is a joke and they're basically the only name that matters in American WN
I like PF, problem is, like all other small WN movements, it has not produced anything that benefits WN. 


>>6616
What a horrible post, everything you said is retarded and devoid of any substance.

>>6612
>Does this constitute a "collapse"?
YES to both of those questions, it will strain the welfare state which in return will lead to the possible systemic collapse slowly but surely.
Doubled with the unfunded liabilities (Look it up, it's a nice financial redpill.) of which there is OVER $100 trillion in, and you got yourself a ticking time-bomb.
I suggest you welcome Prayer of the Rollerboys as our possible future.

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>>6616
>all the men
One single guy.
>wanna here
*sigh*

>>6616
WTF are you talking about
things are the best they have ever been.
>PF
kek nevermind, you identify with THEM in principle, yeah kys

Interesting thread that was hijacked b low IQ individuals.

the cell structure is a terrible forced meme.
Tribes are a good structure, with family dynamics, entirely and ACTUALLY self-sufficient unlike cellist LARPery (cellism is an alright idea for a well orchestrated campaign/elbaorate terrorist attack but like nothing else. Hence in natural real-world manifestations like sandnigger insurgency it manifests this way. But not online on Telegram groups in the early 20s because successful warfare tactics aren’t as cool and dark foreigner artwork terrorwave omgxd. Hence the more educated these kids become the more they drift towards successful stratagem, and this was seen in a way via terrorgram’s publications and TAF seperately as the men behind the operations matured and became more educated on warfare

>>6638
Cells would work if you had a highly motivated, high IQ population. 
We have neither.
The cold hard truth is that realistically, all the super complex plans that require thousands of people being in lock step and not making a single mistake are bad plans.

>>6638
They were not matured, the handlers simply saw that they had to adapt and correct their template because of the online opposition and debunking of their Gladio-like sloperations.
And cell tactics can indeed only work if there's definitely a higher power to guide them all without yet having to send direct orders.

>>6687
>>6697
The thing is, the obvious avenues of recruitment are out. Handing out flyers on the street is not just a complete waste of time, it'll put you right in ZOG's crosshairs and have a file made on you, with the feds ready to pounce the second it looks like it'll be going somewhere or they need a scapegoat for some purpose. Online recruitment is also off the table, given all the surveilance and algorithms and whatnot. The real problem with these recruitment tactics however is that the low barrier of entry will mean most of the guys who will try to join (besides the informants) will be idiots, weirdos, larpers, blabbermouths and shitheads trying to be edgy to fit in. Or worse, "responsible conservative" types.

There's another problem, and it's the false dichotomy of appeal versus message. If you want to recruit as many people as possible into the cause you'll have to dilute the message because most normalfags won't touch "le nazi hate rhetoric" with a 10 foot pole for fear of their jobs and reputations, plus those who do join will be the aforementioned wastes of oxygen. In other words, recruiting from the general population and leaving it at that, a game of numbers, is going to result in failure.

On the other hand, if you don't dilute the message and hold to a hard line to keep out the dabblers and the hobbyists, you risk attracting the feds' attention, and it's a much bigger risk in an age of keyword algorithms and 24/7 camera surveilance on every street.

Why do I call it a false dichotomy, you might be wondering? I call it a false dichotomy because the answer is neither of the above. The best path, in my opinion, is to start recruiting at the local level. Co-workers, gym pals, neighbors, the like. The close familiarity will allow you to screen and vet them personally, and if you're perceptive and play your cards right you'll be able to filter the guys who will be useful and dedicated to the cause from the chaff. In an age of perennial surveilance online and off, you'll have to operate like a Roman mystery cult in order to survive as an organization.

Of course you won't take the country let alone the world with just you and your poker buddies, you have to expand at some point. Do it gradually, from your street to your neighborhood to your district to your city. Once you're confident you've got good coverage of your city, it's time to spread to other places. Without going into too much detail, I'd say the best way to go about it is to grab a select few members of your group that either travel a lot or have a good alivi to spend a good amount of time away from home, people you 100% trust not just to relay orders but to run the show in your absence and not fuck up at all where opsec is concerned. In any case, you send those guys out to recruit as you did, and so establish cells in other cities. I'm aware this whole process will strike you as terribly slow and inefficient, but remember: Quality beats quantity.

All that said, >>6638 is right in a way. Decentralized cell structures are good for raising hell and conducting insurgent operations but little else. I do not believe they're a "forced meme" however. They're only the first stage, eventually you have to step out of the shadows and take the fight to the enemy. Right now the enemy is well-entrenched and has near full control of the population and institutions as well as a robust surveilance apparatus, therefore operating in small, self-sufficient and expendable cells is the way to go. Once the control apparatus is damaged and the enemy's grip is slackened, once the resistance has a good powerbase and sufficient resources for more ambitious operations, once your organization has a presence in the stage of power, then's the time to coalesce all the cells into a larger coordinated whole. Obvious there's the risk of facional disputes and whatnot, but if you did well in the initial recruitment phase then the risk will be minimal as ideological coherence (a much more important element of warfare than numbers or resources) will remain strong across all units. It's far from impossible, though it'll take a lot of work and foresight.

>>6700
Sounds good but do you really think it can succeed when time is against us in every way that matters?

>>6701
I don't know that I will succeed. I don't have the benefit of historical hindsight. And I'm man enough to recognize I'm not some great and glorious leader. I'm no Julius Caesar, no Napoleon Bonaparte, no Adolf Hitler. I don't believe I'm exceptional in any way. I don't believe I have a grand destiny, or that I'm the Chosen One, or anything of the sort. I don't know what the future will bring, or how long it'll take to win, or what sacrifices will have to be made, or if I'm strong enough to carry this on through to the end.

What I know is that I find the current state of the world around me to be intolerable in every way, and that I don't want my children to inherit it, or an even worse one. What I know is that I can ignore it and "live my life" and only worry about my own well-being and prosperity like the average baby boomer and let the next generation deal with it, but I find such a prospect an unforgivable dereliction of responsibility not just to myself or to my loved ones but to the aforementioned generations that will have to live in this world after I've left it. What I know is that if we fail, or worse, if we fail to act, no amount of excuses will mean anything. The light will go out of this world and it'll be reduced to a hellish cesspool of banality and decay. Our works of art will be destroyed, our monuments will be torn down, alll our history and culture will be forgotten, all that we've ever been will be lost and all our struggles will amount to nothing.  Nobody will hear our excuses because there'll be nobody that'll remember us or care to, just a horde of mulatto zombies pissing on the ashes of our libraries and twerking on the burning ruins of our civilization.

What I think is this: Someone has to bell the cat.

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>>6700
>The thing is, the obvious avenues of recruitment are out. 
Most of them indeed, especially outside of the US where speech is heavily restricted. But since Rockwell, Pierce and Klassen, no serious man has decided to take the mantle and really push pure ideals into the world.

The United States remain one of the few White countries where it still is possible legally to come up with a radical politcal party. Not that the party would have any chance to win but it would serve as a soapbox and loud speaker for our values.

More than ever, the popularity of these values is inversely proportional to their legality. Most of us are certainly convinced by now that a revolution, armed one at that, is necessary, which includes a partial collapse of the actual system before restarting it under our control. We do need to find ways to push our voices into the real world instead of being strictly constrained to limited venues such as more or less obscure websites and some alternative video channels that make only a thousand view per great video.

In a world where there still are hundreds of millions of Whites, most of them natively or capable of speaking English, this low reach is not much excusable. The current events have significantly eroded the Jews' control over our collective mind. We must push harder now.

I believe it is possible to form openly pro-White parties without even having to headbutt with the laws of the country. That is even true in Europe where it's harder over there. The powers that be will not be able to use the law but will put enough pressure through the medias to convince the population that it would be moral to outlaw such parties, which they'll definitely try to do.

Which means that a party that has no armed section is no party at all now. We must really begin to strongly consider being able to rely on silent forces to shove the population our way by use of threats while also–and that is crucial–benefiting from plausible deniability.

We also know how this will end. Nothing short of a civil war that escalates into a full fledged war against kikes and traitors will cut it. Somehow, we will need to able to put pressure on military commanders. These people have families too. A purge such as one that would our distant ancestors would have never balked at, one that depletes our nations from their traitors, that will be the obligatory path we shall follow.

I have hope. I do because I see normal people who feel that all is wrong. Young people are depressed and desperate. Provocative posting, lack of respect for the institutions and their lies and all sorts of radical opinions have now invaded the social networks and contribute to the growth of a healthy chaos. That is just the tip of the iceberg. There is a vast untapped potential that we have yet to find a way to unlock and take for ourselves. Maybe we haven't decided of the proper words yet.

I cannot trust the opinion that the strictly political option is vain when for the last two or three decades we've seldom seen any White Nationalist rise and attempt anything, really anything to convince the masses. Every message is diluted, every one is afraid of his own shadow. We can't succeed with this reductive and self-defeating mindset. We must not let the Jews control how far right the Overton window can slide because we must be the ones pushing it rightwards more and more.

Our message needs to be pure. No shame in being White, we want everything for Whites. Starting with our own countries, and we better be able to intellectually and verbally master the arguments to support such a claim.

>There's another problem, and it's the false dichotomy of appeal versus message. If you want to recruit as many people as possible into the cause you'll have to dilute the message because most normalfags won't touch "le nazi hate rhetoric" with a 10 foot pole for fear of their jobs and reputations, plus those who do join will be the aforementioned wastes of oxygen.
One reason this happens is because no one bothered telling them that it is abnormal to be ostracized for having such opinions. That no one should fear for his work, family or life for holding opinions that amount to saying I don't hate myself, I actually like myself what I am, that is is the others, the parasites, the suicidal, the traitors, the liars and the weak ones who should be afraid.

In fact when you look at there's simply been no properly formulated set of winning points to completely reverse the entire paradigm of pressure. It's OK to be White should be the norm and it should be explained why, and it should be explained that it is neither normal nor acceptable to be living in a once White country wherein Whites have been reduced to third class citizens who must keep quiet, live in shame and work hard to pay taxes to contribute to their own destruction.

This is a simple message that could come in so many variations and yet we barely hear it. Few are those who "ain't givin' a shit" and openly boast being White without sounding like a stupid caricature. Few figures stand for Whiteness. We can see Jared Taylor for example who is a judeophile nonetheless.

Which brings me to the other problem, being that we cannot solve this if we simply do not expose the Jews and finally tell our own people that there is no shame in attacking them. We have the evidence, mountains of evidence of their crimes, and there is no possible way we Whites should accept that Jews rule over us and write our own laws, our own songs, our own movies, our own scriptures. Yet who has been saying such a thing lately? Have we even tried going there before even talking about other unreachable fabulous ventures?

>Why do I call it a false dichotomy, you might be wondering? I call it a false dichotomy because the answer is neither of the above. The best path, in my opinion, is to start recruiting at the local level. Co-workers, gym pals, neighbors, the like. 
I agree but it will not work if it doesn't feel to come from an authoritative figure. Humans being humans, we love big things. For the same reason that we so easily fall to our needs in a need to pray a big daddy in the sky, people are naturally geared to respect what appears to them as a legitimate and imposing figure, regardless of what this is all about.

Being a proselyte for a superior power feels far more respectable and people are gregarious, they want to flock to something greater than them. The shepherd syndrome if you will. If they know that they are not alone, that someone else living on the other side of a region or country thinks the same and does the same than them, it's all the easier to attract such people to our house. This is why the brand phenomenon works for business, this why it works for politics and religion too. But we're yet to use properly for our own ends.

Now regarding the security, there's something we must accept: most people will be careless and will absolutely want to spread their new liberated views online. We know that there will be mistakes and a lot of waste. We could try to tell them to keep their opinions to themselves but that wouldn't work. It would above all be contrary to our objective, shifting the pressure onto our enemies.

We cannot hold a self-contradictory message where on one hand we say we should be proud of ourselves and not have to hide, and on the other hand say to our followers that they shall silence themselves and not even dare speak openly. There must come a time when this has to stop.

I actually believe in the flood effect. We have seen something of that order in Facebook where the censors are too few and psychologically strained to deal with the truth and hatred. The judicial system is equally strained too. It only works because the Federal agents can pick our own one by one, in isolated cases. But what happens when we are many, millions? And when we start forming militias and drawing guns as soon as ZOG dogs come barking at our doors?

We need a greater bonding, more solidarity. We need to saturate the judicial system, bring it to a halt. We need militias to defend ourselves when our own people are threatened by migrants, by employers, by journalists, by mayors, by teachers, by judges or by cops. We need to create a parallel society where another set or rules becomes the real law. Our law.

>Right now the enemy is well-entrenched and has near full control of the population and institutions as well as a robust surveilance apparatus, therefore operating in small, self-sufficient and expendable cells is the way to go.
There's assuredly a need to possess the ability to push hard where it matters, but it has to be smart and it needs not be excessive. In fact, the more violent and vainglorious, the more it will attract the Feds and the fruit flies known as journalists. However, a constant silent pressure that is mundane, of low intensity but which happens anywhere and everywhere is far more efficient.

People are manipulated through fear but only ZOG as a monopoly on fear today because there is no consequence for being openly anti-White. Whatever a cell will do, it should remain secretive. Don't brag about it, don't talk about it before or after. Just go through the gestures and complete whatever you decided needed to be done. Be swift and efficient. Waste no energy no resources. Act quickly and cleanly, move out, don't get caught.

>>6573
>how are you going to make them fear your reprisals for snitching more than the System's threats for not snitching
Cruel and unusual punishments.

What if there are some dudes in a room with a fireplace, and they write ideas on some paper and pass it around to read, and cast the paper into the fire when done? The paper never leaves the room. Should be impossible to spy on.

>>6801
Decent idea, but it requires gathering in the first place, which might be difficult when the ZOG starts cracking down and instituting emergency state and banning gatherings.

>>6700
>Handing out flyers on the street is not just a complete waste of time, it'll put you right in ZOG's crosshairs and have a file made on you, with the feds ready to pounce the second it looks like it'll be going somewhere or they need a scapegoat for some purpose. 
Hang on a minute. Has this ever actually happened or are we just living in fear of a straw man made powerful in our minds by relentless hollywood TV shows depicting the FBI as omnipotent plus our own right wing priors of paranoia? Or is this just a cope we tell ourselves to justify our inaction?
Will antifa try to dox you? Yeah. But given that we're engaged in a war of extermination, the cost of being identified by the enemy are comparatively light. If roles were reversed and we held power, would shitheads preaching White genocide just lose their jobs?
It's not popular to point this out because everyone revels in being a victim (which is a natural and normal trait that is effectively used to motivate anger), but the nature of the system we are oppressed by precludes the kind of targeted slaughter that more dictatorial regimes would use against us, were we in the USSR or China.

>you risk attracting the feds' attention
Then don't commit federal crimes. Don't accept offers to procure explosives from members. That guy is a fed. Expel him. 
Apart from obvious cases where a fed tricks idiots into saying they want to blow up a federal building on camera, can you think of a single example where "being on the FBI's radar" led to arrests? Look at Patriot Front. They're not hidden. Why haven't they been mass arrested for thought crime?
InB4 >cuz they're all feds! If they weren't feds, they would be arrested. We know this because only fed ops can exist. We know this because if a group weren't feds, they'd be arrested. We know this because only fed ops can exist...

>start recruiting at the local level.
I agree, but I must push back against the paralyzing paranoia that originates from the right wing. Should we espouse our beliefs to friends and family? Yes. But should we live in fear of working with other cells because they might be feds? No. That just leads to a bunch of tiny, powerless cells that never do anything, never talk to anyone, and have zero effect upon our desperate situation.
You say, 
>Start with 3 guys, then expand until you have 300, gradually, through trusted contacts.
Okay, yeah, but then you get another organization. There is no way that you know all 300 guys, so you're going to have to trust people increasingly removed from you. Eventually, someone will make a mistake and a fed will slip in. OH NO!!!! NOW WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!!!!!
Except, wait, no. No you won't. Don't agree to blow up federal buildings. What's he going to arrest you for? Racism? That's not illegal yet. If it ever does become illegal, what would you rather:
A
>Enlightened Whites are totally disconnected in tiny cells with no experience doing anything at all, no connections with other cells, but technically (probably not though) not known to the feds
B
>Enlightened Whites are organized with numbers to back our ideals, but the feds know about us.

>operating in small, self-sufficient and expendable cells is the way to go
Doing... what?
AFAIS, they're not doing anything. Patriot Front is doing things. The smaller the group, the more likely they end up doing nothing. This is a tried and true law of insurgencies. Look at the Cornish Liberation Army. It was, at the very most, 12 guys imo. I suspect it was more like 3. What did they accomplish? Nothing, really.
Folks on chans have this notion that a cell of 3 guys will be comprised of 200 IQ super-soldiers who are as fit as the marines on TV shows with infinite resources, no jobs, and expert knowledge of chemistry, physics, and math. If that were the case, it would work. But if you look at actual conflicts, insurgents tend to be average working class males with jobs, often times not having families interestingly, and only a small percentage could be classified as the 200 IQ super-soldiers. Those men comprise the leadership of of much larger organisms. They are usually relatively well known to the authorities and operate in hiding, the bread and butter of the insurgents are anonymous working class guys of moderately high but not genius intellect.

>>6804
If things get so bad that White people cannot even gather in groups larger than 3, things are so royally fucked that we'll either be in the most optimal conditions for a revolution or all hope is lost because it'd be too late to form those conditions.

>>6712
This is correct in its entirety. 
The great irony of our time is that the positions which we hold, more or less, are the historic norm for all people, White or not, for all of history. Ethnocentrism, pro-family, pro-tradition. All traits which describe every normal person throughout time. Indeed, if you really talk to people today, even more Americans and US citizens hold these views. Niggers, kikes, spics, obviously do (well, niggers aren't into families but that's just their African nature) but even White people intrinsically value their race, their family, and what remains of our traditions.

The trouble lies in how these organic positions are ruthlessly attacked when expressed honestly. So they need to be couched with grotesque euphemisms or denied in public.

>>6817
>Patriot Front is doing things.
Such as?

>>6817
>They're not hidden. Why haven't they been mass arrested for thought crime?
>InB4 >cuz they're all feds! If they weren't feds, they would be arrested. We know this because only fed ops can exist. We know this because if a group weren't feds, they'd be arrested. We know this because only fed ops can exist...
Unfortunately it's a logical conclusion. Maintaining an effective honey pot, controlling the opposition or resistance, or at least having fingers in the pie (not that pie) is obviously very useful.

>>7211
Disseminating propaganda, marching, and doing charity work. This is just like Golden Dawn. However, they will likely never grow into a political force large enough to undertake serious political action because everyone is too chicken shit to join. 
We're all just LARPing on the internet.

>>7220
>It's a honeypot
Do to what? Trick White men into actually doing things besides bitching on 4chan? Oh horrid. The jews fear White boys who bitch online.

>>7243
you’re both wrong

of course it’s not a fucking honeypot. It’s literally just Generation Identity cowards but much Americana, such fascism.
Oh, if there’s anything the feds fear more than 4chan losers, the ones that are such smart boys they keep dismantling their carefully constructed conspiracies, it’s… gulp… 4chan users that MARCH!!!!

>>7249
You seem to be under the impression that organized White men are not a threat to the regime.
If that were so, how do you explain Hitler who MARCHED?
Was he a retard?

He didn't live in a time where there was a camera on every street and every corner, facial recognition software with attached databases and entire intelligence agencies (now with artificial intelligence algorithms) monitoring all communications in real time. The main thing you accomplish by going on marches and protests is making  a target of yourself and helping the authorities make dossiers on all possible bad goyim involved. The old playbook doesn't work nowadays, so it's necessary to change tactics.

>>7255
to clarify:
Patriot front doesn’t march up to niggers and lynch them. It doesn’t march for anything over than vain purposes. It has convoluted, esoteric, ugly aesthetics, and is for “patriotism” in a state where the pigs or their minions would gleefully beat one of their lads to death if they knew they could get away with it.
They could never be a threat to the System, BECAUSE THEY DON’T EVEN INTEND TO. They just want to crank back the hands on ol’ Billy’s clock and attend da church in a white ethnostate that appeared out of nowhere. 
Literally all they’ve “achieved” in real life except shitting out of their printers pages of masturbatory, senseless, nostalgist “propaganda” for leftists to giggle at and then throw, damp and torn, into the tax-funded Bauhaus park bin are clown shows.

This is a carbon copy of every single movementarian movement for more than fifty years ever since the ANP fell. It will never achieve ANYTHING.
Tell me. What are they organised for other than to be heckled at by common folk, and to marginalise themselves with their tasteless macho marches?
Yes, Hitler MARCHED. Hitler MARCHED to prove how POWERFUL, and LARGE, the SA (at first, when marches weren’t as ceremonial) which EXISTED FOR PURPOSES OTHER THAN MARCHING FUCKING HELL AS A WING OF THE REAL MOVEMENT WHICH HAD REAL IDEALS AND SCORNED VAGUE REACTIONARY LOSERS, and WAS ARMED TO THE TEETH, ready to SMASH COMMUNIST AGITATORS’ SKULLS IN. Considering the state of these homosexual little fairs, how does Hitler’s marches have anything to do with them?

Even if none of this were the case, Hitler existed at a time so different it’s insane and senseless to try and use his strategies. If you disagree you’re a nostalgist Hollywood Nazi bum.

>>7256
I agree on most points. Marching is useless because either the movement you joined is useless/a pressure valve and achieves nothing of consequence, or it's a fed honeypot to get the names and adresses of dissidents, or (if it's for real) you get your face out there for the authorities to identify the second they get the feeling you'll be a threat, when they're not just looking for a scapegoat. I honestly believe any real stride forward must be made in clandestinity, at least until the state surveilance apparatus has been destroyed/significantly weakened.

>>7259
Add to that the risk of getting attacked by Antifa cocksuckers while the pigs stand back and watch without lifting a finger (at least until you strike back). Whether you manage to drive them off or even steamroll them in a fight is useless, because you're handing the authorities the perfect excuse to lock you up and make a file on you, justify further surveilance of your person, confiscate weapons or financial assets, etc. To reiterate, going out in public and putting on a show is just a ton of risk for negligible gain. It's better to fly under the radar and take clandestine action.

>go for a march / protest
>media seethes and dilates, broadcasts your existence and message far and wide
>you gain more members
>pretty soon you have enough manpower to seriously disrupt things, not just on a local but state / federal level
>see step 2
>eventually reach critical mass and take over the government during a time of crisis

I'm not saying this is a perfect plan, but it seems pretty sound to me, and clearly what orgs like Aussie NSN and now Patriot Front are going for.

I will admit, I used to think Rousseau was a retard but it seems like he's learned to talk like a normal person at least. Time will tell whether his org is able to get over that 1-200 member hump and actually make a difference. If not, I don't see anyone else building a viable mass movement in America. All we have are Orania-type projects like AFA

>>7262
I forgot to add
>get fit
>embed yourself in the community
without those steps any vanguard will be easily crushed
but it seems like both of the orgs I mentioned are focusing on those things
with Patriot Front it's active club-style physical training coupled with disaster / homeless outreach. Remember, the homelessness rate in the US right now is the highest in recorded history. I'm a shut-in and even I know a guy who recently ended up on the streets

With NSN they don't go for the homeless outreach, but they do train heavily and protest whenever something that's bound to piss off Australian normies happens. Joel Davis recently got arrested for flying a banner "Jews hate freedom" cause the Jews were trying to pass anti-free speech legislation. Their goal in particular seems to be Sun Tzu's forcing your opponent to defend and indefensible position

>>7262
The difference with NSN is they are doing the parallel organization method of having one as the activism/public group and the other as a private club for building relationships and wealth. That is a smart move in my opinion.

>>7264
NSN is alright, I don’t fully understand what it’s trying to do with some of its strange publicity stunts, but I appreciate it because it is attempting to build a real organisation unlike Patriot Front.
If NSN develops a third axis, clandestine axis, Organisation axis, guerrilla axis, on top of its growing popularity, at a point, then things could get seriously interesting.

A final thing I greatly appreciate is their uncompromising hardlinerism and that brunette lad that talks at the camera in (very tastefully made, very appealing to their target audience) 9:16 videos can even be funny.

>>7265
>Third axis
Will almost certainly be needed the instant they can get away with it.
>uncompromising hardlinerism
It is absolutely refreshing to hear a fairly popular group unashamedly own the argument that Hitler was the good guy.
>lad that talks at the camera in 9:16 videos
Jacob Hersant?

Different but nonetheless relevant kind of question. What steps can you take to flush out fed plants and potential informants? Unlike in the Turner Diaries we don't have a magical truth serum on our side to screen potential recruits.

>>7265
Their stated goal is to "heighten the contradictions." Hegelian / Marxist lingo, but basically they're trying to force our enemies (the media, politicians etc.) to openly admit their desire for white disempowerment and genocide, forcing white cuckservatives to pick a side. So far, I feel like they're doing a decent job. Certainly better than PF, although I wouldn't go so far as to say Rousseau isn't running a "real org."

And yes, Hersant is secretly their greatest weapon. Joel has the production value down. Blair reaches the zoom zooms via tiktok. And Tom is the no-nonsense active club organizer. But Hersant is the young avatar of the white ozzie spirit in comparison

>>7255
Yet they didn't hide. There were spies in the streets and the communists knew their faces. But the main difference is that they also had number tied to a political party that didn't munch its words. So there was might in words and deeds. This is why a political party remains useful and must be exploited as much as possible, to attract comrades. Now you can also try to build a cult, a church, whatever. We need numbers and guns, it's as simple as that.

Patriotism is total shit btw. Any nigger can be a patriot and stand under a banner.
Nationalism doesn't cut it when the definition of a nation allows for civic nationalism to exist.
National Soclalism was fine in a White country like Germany. We're not 1930 Germany.
Make the White people, i.e. the race, the most important aspect of your message.

>>7262
>>7263
They're fine in themselves but we need family friendly organizations too, stuff that actually looks normal enough so that more people can get it. Once they're in, we'll filter the weaker and redirect the most radical towards the core. Member of a political party need to be able to carry very easily, with them, the basics of our racial doctrine and our hopeful vision, so they can take it back with them in their homes. There, the wives will follow.

The entire skillful art we require now is to find a fine blend and strike a perfect balance between more radical positions and mainstream optics. Work on that fellas.

>>7256
>Because PF doesn't march up to and lynch niggers, they are retarded
Anon...
That is retarded. Be serious.
>I DON'T LIKE HOW THEY DRESS!!!
What a lame, weak critique. 
>They shouldn't call themselves patriots!
The founders of America were called patriots and calling themselves patriots is a great idea. Furthermore, they stress that true patriots are loyal to their people, not to the state.
These are among the weakest critiques of PF I have seen so far.

>They could never be a threat to the System
If organized White men are not capable of threatening the system, then the system is invincible. 
>Distributing pro-White propaganda is bad because leftists laugh at you
This is patently insane. And why do you care what leftists think? I care what sane White men think. Between worrying over what your enemies think and fretting over "ugly clothes" you sound like a woman. The only consideration that should be taken is how to reach and organize sane White men.

>Trying to organize White men has been tried for decades and we have still not overthrown the US government. Therefore we should give up trying and do something else.
1. You never offer an alternative. So your critique may be dismissed.
2. Clearly we need to redouble our efforts. There is no way to defeat the enemy by remaining terminally online. The path to survival is in the streets in real life.
Your retort, if it is even anything more than blind rage and personal insults (notice that I only insult your ideas rather than engage in childish personal attacks), will be something like
>Let's just build super secret terrorist cells and wait for the opportunity to conduct small acts of terrorism that somehow bring down the regime like in a movie.
But that has also been tried for decades and is being tried today. These terrorist cells never do anything. They just wait and grow old and sometimes get arrested for being retarded. 
Anyone who talks about super secret terror cells is not a serious revolutionary, he is a LARPer. Serious politics is about organizing White men into a political force, just like jews, just like niggers. If niggers can do it, White men can do it.
>B-but we'll all get arrested!
Firstly, no. That's patently false.
Secondly, so the fuck what? If you're willing to die for your race, getting arrested for jaywalking is not a problem. If you're unwilling to risk spending a weekend in jail, you're never going to risk getting shot for your race.
So any talk about terrorism is childish role play.

>HITLER DIDN'T JUST MARCH!!!! I'LL BET YOU DIDN'TTHINK OF THAT!!!!!
Yes I did think of that. Patriot Front also exists for reasons other than marching.

That's pretty fucking obvious, dude. Pay attention.

>>7276
Then don't allow anti-Whites and civic nationalists to define patriotism and nationalism.
Patriotism = defending your people from oppression.
Nationalism = loving your race. Putting your people before profit.

>>7269
Caveat: I have never led an insurgent organization so everything I say is conjecture. 
However, I have studied leftist infiltration stories and also various armed insurgencies (mostly Northern Ireland but also Spain & Corsica)
1. In the present American context, anyone in your organization that joins and, within a few weeks, starts dropping hints about violence, bombs, kidnappings, illegal weapons, etc, that guy is a fed. Either a fed or a clownish idiot. Get him out of your organization immediately or, if the leadership refuses to take action, leave.
2. New members who display an unusual curiosity about your membership. This man may be a fed or is possibly a leftist trying to dox people. It may be friendliness, but if your gut tells you he is gathering intel, it may be best to remove him from the organization.
3. People who behave like leftist stereotypes of racists. Leftists know exactly what racists are like: We hate niggers because of their skin color, throw salutes every 10 minutes, are in it for the hate (especially of niggers), and if they do mention jews, don't seem to understand WHY we don't like jews (usually offering religious explanations)
Namely, if someone is behaving like a hollywood stereotype and cannot articulate why they are a White nationalist, they may be putting on an act. Or they may be dumb and shallow. People who hate jews just because they hate jews are likely doing it for attention and are not ideologically motivated enough to engage in serious actions. They tend to shift from one ideological "extreme" to another. That said, they may be open to learning WHY they should hate jews.

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>>7281
>people before profit
wordington nationalism

>>7277
national alliance
we fucking needed national alliance god fucking damnit pierce why didn’t you organise a successor when you were diagnosed with cancer
you’re literally describing national alliance word for word
word for fucking word
“I’m going to kill myself every day for the rest of my life”

>>7280
the whole idea is that normal people cringe at them, and then leftists laugh at them. Obviously I couldn’t care less what leftists think they should all be shot on sight, but when they’re able to just giggle in your face because of how silly you are maybe it’s your fault.

>notice that I only insult your ideas rather than engage in childish personal attacks
<That's pretty fucking obvious
<What a lame, weak critique.
<That is retarded.
<you sound like a woman.
<This is patently insane

dude, well organised white men are on my fucking sweaty ballsack. I’m going to defeat the Jews with my well organised pubes. I’m going to show all those terrortroons that real white men organise for the purpose of vanity and not direct action.

>>7288
Okay. I claim that phrase for White people. Now what?
People before profit, Heil Hitler.

>>7291
Apart from commiting acts of terror which they and we in general are not ready for, what should they be doing instead?

>>I only insult your ideas rather than engage
>lists attacks on your ideas
Yes?
>Starts talking about his ballsack.
Clearly you are an intellectual. Forgive me, but I'd rather discuss strategy and serous proposals to save my race. You can discuss your ballsack, your anus, and your poop on /b/

>>6638
This, we need to create a network or irl instutions that would fractionally build real connections and networking

>>6165
Nice story but there were traitors very close to Hermann IIRC. More likely, the Romans had underestimated the cohesion of the opposite forces to the point of thinking that a regular legion would do the job and they'd be home before supper.
The message didn't need to be heard by everyone either. I suppose that to a large extent, the idea was kept on a need to know basis and only the upper rudders knew about it in full detail. The legitimate authority of the common lords did the rest. Of course it could have not happened if the Germans at large had not been resentful of the Roman Empire.
You also ignore the fact that the Roman Empire didn't have modern spying systems and its borders were clearly delineated. Most of the rebellion was fomented on the other side of the Rhine, not in the smack middle of the Lazio.
Other revolts could only happen because local elites moved the populations. It's never the commoners who achieve anything on their own, even less decide of anything, even if conditions vary. The Basques for example have for long been an isolated people living for the most part in hard to reach areas and could use their own language, even if in this case many of them only spoke either French or Spanish. The Basque rebellion didn't go very far either, they were infiltrated with communists and the independence they acquired was perfectly in line with the new segmentation wished by the European Union that is in the process of dissolving the nations for smaller state-like regions, all administrated then by a centralized power in Brussels.
In other words, the only way a resistance can be mounted is by strengthening and gathering our resources in predominantly White areas and then Whiten them even more by use of means which the police forces will be powerless against. Our governments are morally and financially bankrupt, the police cannot be everywhere at all time. Keeping an eye on their movements while having spies close to ZOG telling us that special agents are sent undercover to infiltrate us is definitely the way to reclaim power.
At some point, would this entire methodology prove successful, we would observe the rise of calmer and moderate leaders who would try to convince us that we won, that we gained enough power and that we shouldn't try to bite a piece too large for our stomach. These people would need to be pushed aside or eliminated.
Likewise, as much as we would increase our power over areas we would control, and knowing full well that we would be targeted by arsonists, we would need to be equally amiable with our enemies and ruin System assets.
Anything from sabotaged depots, bridges, railways, crop fields and power nodes would deplete the territorial reserves and money and increase the tensions and violence. Soon enough, Whites would be forced to accept living in System territory or regroup and accept our strict rules, although they would be implied, never written, all following the sound principle of racial territorial segregation.
If ZOG starts to shoot niggers, pajeets, tacos and slimes, it will totally abandon any appearance of authority in their eyes and will give free reign to gangs to create complete lawless zones that will fall apart since anything from copper wires to food depots will be looted and the infrastructure will be impossible to maintain. Few Whites will stay there. That is not something ZOG can really afford because the only way to exterminate Whites is to keep control over their minds and money. The moment Whites can do what they truly need and want, and we are the ones deciding what is right or not, is the day when the power balance is broken and slides our way. Once we're there, we do everything to increase our power and destroy our enemies. Game Over for the Jews, no remorse, no pity. That's why I don't see the System endangering its own feeble grip on our nations, quite the contrary. Everything is done to convince Whites that it's still fine overall, that it could be worse, and that we should keep faith in our institutions which can be eventually repaired so we can rewind them by a few decades to when things were better.
A good way to silence the potential snitches is fear of reprisal by using examples. Cops protecting a migrant center? Well, there goes up in flames another cop car somewhere. A mayor sucking Jewish cock or a teacher promoting feminism, homosexuality, transsexuality, pedophilia or even bestiality. That individual will be found to have decided to stay in bed and enjoy a verrry long sleep. A home estate agency is known to shove skrealings in our White neighborhood? Oh, so many ways to send them a memo about how it would be better for their long term business to stop doing this, if they want to keep their job and their pulse. Meanwhile our real local politicians will have to keep arguing in favor of Whites and insist on organizing a backflow of migrants from our areas, no matter how long the migrants have been living there. They will deny having any link to the faceless radicals who pacify the area in very subtle yet efficient ways.

>>7293

WHITES BEFORE PROFIT
 
 
There you go.

>>7290
Too focused on politics they were, instead of trying to build a whole business network starting with local banks that would have brought much needed finances to our side. In the banks, don't practice usury towards Whites but provide options to invest money in White businesses. At the same time, propose national magazines in the wait room and tie entire loan formulae to White ventures and said magazines. Like pay a bit more here, get some protection and bonuses and receive every week or month issue # of this or that magazine in mail or on the phone.
Get local printers ready to go brrr. Have magazines for kids, for wives, for workers, for investors, for army guys, etc. Network and crisscross all of this through the banks, link all of it to local businesses, disseminate the content in said businesses, have stands in the street to give the material to people, easy to read and carry around. Few, solid and clear points on flyers, with ways to learn more or get a subscription. Eventually shove in reformulations of ideas found in Klassen, Pierce and Lane's works. Soften them a bit if needed.
Don't hesitate to produce beautiful and appealing propaganda art, all time White, both retro, actual and futuristic (without being cheesy), the kind that will be displayed on websites, in the pages of the magazines and behind the glasses of some of these businesses, on the side of trucks, at the back of taxi cabs, in restaurants, etc. Get people used to be surrounded by White material, to feel pro-White, proud and safe, and then to crave that feeling like White soma even more to the point of wanting to share it with others.
Progressively produce nice pro-White entertainment content and games. No need to be Minecraft radical, don't go there, but simply natural stuff like White people living in a White world attacked by enemies, organizing a communal village, solving a crime by following Aryan values, having a White knight saving a princess too since that kind of stuff is every bit as banal to us as it is edgy to others and makes our enemies get mald 24/7.
Also build lawyer networks, that is very important, and push it as far as they can begin lobbying. Meanwhile at your local level try to organize community events for everyone or sometimes for specific audiences, like sports, cooking, house building, etc. Make it fun.
Always share and spread pro-White propaganda while not making it too aggressive. Avoid the slurs and always be positive. Don't say gas the kikes and Hitler did nothing wrong, say we Whites we need White lands and White laws for ourselves. The general approach must be soft yet firm, agreeable enough to attract people, stiff in the message that's preached.
Recruit more and more people to do the work. Have kids earn a few cents to do some menial yet constructive work. Carry around the propaganda, then have snacks and have games.
Make sure that the shooting & training centers are in our hands. They are in themselves virtual depots for copious volumes of firearms and the ZOG is obviously doing everything possible to destroy them legally. Press against that and make sure that if one of those centers were to be closed, all the weapons would be sold at a bargain to our people and the rest would strangely "vanish".
Last but not least, create secret societies, cabals, mafias. Not the shitty drug-producing kind, the the secretive kind that will screen any White person who could reach any seat of power in any type of organization central to our power and making sure that this person's interests and views totally align with ours. Oaths will be mandatory. Oaths are important within the confines of these groups. Also learn to filter all the degenerates who will try to inject all sorts of filth. Eject Crowleyites and Satanists. Beware of people way too obsessed with Jewish mysticism to the point of thinking we need it because they'll try to rebuild a Freemasonry and we simply can't have that.

>>7280
>patriots
The word has a lot of power and it appeals to lots of people but David Lane explained very well why it was not suited for our struggle. America right now, the ZOG, the System, the kikes and degenerates, all of this is a problem. Yet to most people, being a patriot means that one way or another, that White-murdering machine is somehow still good. In fact, for some reasons borderline esoteric, Lane went as far as to say that America was a Beast that had to be killed. You cannot be a patriot for that, especially not for the American flag.
Changing the name of an organization isn't very difficult either.

>>7572
> there were traitors very close to Hermann IIRC
I have not read this. Technically, he was betrayed in the end but not by Romans. Just by Germans who viewed him as a threat.

>The message didn't need to be heard by everyone either. I suppose that to a large extent, the idea was kept on a need to know basis 
That's simply not possible. As I explained, German society was not like a Paradox strategy game. In order to get anything to happen, you'd have to convince thousands of people to support your leadership in moots, councils, and assemblies. 

I do, however, agree with your military analysis. 

>>7573
What's the difference?

>>7575
>To most people, patriotism is ZOG worship
I refuse to surrender that word to the enemy.
Furthermore, while denouncing the regime as anti-American/anti-White is one thing, outright declaring that we are anti-American is too far. It hands easy ammunition to the enemy. It's best to explain that American = White & to point out that the globalists are the anti-Americans.

In addition to Rome, I also often think about insurgencies against western governments. The chief ongoing one is the Corsican insurgency against France, primarily the FLNC.
Recently (a year and a half ago) the Macron regime agreed to grant them autonomy after decades of terrorism. Yet he has not done a thing to deliver this promise. In response, the FLNC has re-emerged from the woodwork and conducted several bombing and arson attacks. They also threatened to retaliate against Muslims if they conducted attacks on Corsica, as well as have been making very based statements such as "Jews out, French out."
This latter action may get them in serious trouble as the regime in Paris will tolerate killing Frenchmen and even Muslims, but not jews. 

The FLNC is dealing with problems which face us, on a small scale. Corsicans are a small ethnos, numbering only a few hundred thousand. And recent immigration to Corsica (both French and foreign) is further depleting their numbers and, worse, reducing their ability to win elections in their own homeland.
Like us, they also face a brain drain as young Corsicans often leave the island to get mentally fucked and modernized in Paris. Once they lose their culture, it's tough to get it back again and the old people are dying.
In some ways their situation is even worse than ours due to their small base numbers. To be completely honest, I do not foresee a good end for the Corsican people unless they achieve independence soon.

The issue which keeps me up at night is this: The FLNC has attacked infrastructure, politicians, and tourist villas. They have conducted attacks on soft targets and hard ones. They have conducted attacks in their homeland and even in Paris. They have even attacked gasp banks.
Yet they are not independent, nor are they doing particularly well. They are not poised to drive the FROG (French Republic Occupation Government) out of Corsica. Worse, thanks to immigration, they probably couldn't even win a fair election for autonomy, which is why it is stupid for Macron not to just grant a referendum. 
>The language of our ancestors is dying. Our way of living, without a revolt, will disappear. ~Corsican nationalist song

So what are they doing wrong? 
I am still of the firm belief that basic math will force a regime to disengage from an occupation. Simply put: If the cost of occupying Corsica is more expensive than the net revenue + the monetary value for the shame of losing a core region, the regime would abandon the department. 
This seems to hold true for Northern Ireland. The UK regime caved to most Irish demands once they started targeting banks. Had the PIRA shown a little bit more backbone, they might have gotten more. Or maybe they would have been crushed by the post 9/11 anti-terrorist crusade. 
It's true that the FLNC did target banks. But they did not do so with the same ferocity as the PIRA. Their damage totaled in the tens of millions, not billions. Their bombs were teeny-tiny. 
Another issue is manpower. What percentage of the Corsican population supports the insurgency?
I have no idea, but given some random, subjective information, I would estimate it is very low.
Why is it low?
Well, the standard of living is still relatively high and "violence is le baad" seems to be the primary culprits.

What's the logical way forward? The Corsicans are in a healthier state of mind than the average American; they are still capable of violence and, more importantly, supporting violence. I was watching a documentary about the recent protests over the assassination of Colonna and a Corsican politician openly stated that he supported the violent protesters. How many cuckservative zombies can say the same? They won't even defend violence against abortion clinics. And in doing research for this effort post, I came across several interviews of Corsicans who pointed out that they achieved more through violence than through peaceful politics. Yet it is undeniable that 30 years of low intensity violence have failed to achieve anything approaching what we need to achieve. 

This sort of thing really keeps me up at night. If they failed, how will we succeed? 

Incidentally, I tried to search what each department's tax revenue was and, in typical French fashion, there is no fucking data. The French government functions like an African shithole country where all data is horded by the dictator and his family. For fuck sake, France, why do you keep all data secret? And how the fuck do the French people put up with a regime that refuses to make its own tax revenue earnings public information? Even Russia isn't this corrupt.

>>7597
>30 years of low intensity violence have failed to achieve anything
At the risk of sounding like a complete retard, maybe they need to employ medium-intensity violence. Of course the manpower problem still presents itself. It sounds like they are losing their identity among the youth.

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>>7597
Ah, confound it. I forgot to post the funni video and pictures.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-onYOjZXK9U

>>7600
I'm of a mind to agree with you.
It's tough, speaking neither French nor Corsican, to get a real handle on the support for violence among Corsican youth. On the one hand, I have read a lot of articles by hand-wringing, whiny modern fuckheads who claim that violence isn't the way because the youth don't support it, and it's bad for business, and oh doesn't it just seem so wroong?
I actually want to beat these people to death. But are they right? My experience is mostly with cuckservatives and American shitlibs. Shitlibs love violence, but the cuckservatives will sell you to the cops for free if you even say you support it, which isn't a crime.
On the other hand, could they sustain such a level of violence? The issue with modern insurgencies is the surveillance state and, apparently, the guy Colonna who assassinated a French governor was tagged by informants within the FLNC. Which sucks.
Maybe they need to clean house before they initiate more attacks. But again, this presents problems. They cannot afford to lose even a single true patriot. Yet they cannot afford to miss one traitor.

>>7602
>violence isn't the way because the youth don't support it, and it's bad for business
Kek. -berg -witz -stein -baum
>cuckservatives will sell you to the cops
The nationalist youth are much more supportive of violence. Infinitely more than cuckservative boomers and maybe even surpassing antifa faggots, though it is close.
>The issue with modern insurgencies is the surveillance state
Absolutely. It is the greatest threat to action for all of us.
>They cannot afford to lose even a single true patriot. Yet they cannot afford to miss one traitor.
As you say, It is shitty because they've done almost everything right according to the playbook. There is no easy answer. If manpower were less of a problem, as in if recruitment were as easy as with the dunecoons (where every Palestinian male over the age of 12 will kill a jew given half the chance) then I would say they should damn the risks and proceed with operations knowing they will lose a certain percentage due to informants. When numbers are hard to replace, they are between a rock and a hard place.

>>7602
>who claim that violence isn't the way because the youth don't support it
who the hell believes the youth don't support violence?
>I actually want to beat these people to death. But are they right? My experience is mostly with cuckservatives and American shitlibs. Shitlibs love violence, but the cuckservatives will sell you to the cops for free if you even say you support it, which isn't a crime.
cuckservatives have the brunt of assasination coming their way. Traitors!

>>7603
>where every Palestinian male over the age of 12 will kill a jew given half the chance
The problem of White passivity is racial, arabs possessing partial african ancestry makes them perfectly motivated and mentally suited for warfare. It is in their blood, have you not noticed the africans or their mutt children are more violent than the other races, often in the expense of their own lives. Even when put in peaceful communities, their blood commands them to wage war, either against the other races or eachother. The only way Whites can ever overpower the kikes is by mixing their blood with the niggers(just like the arabs did), otherwise there is no hope and whites will be wiped out.

<But muh IQ
Despite the High White IQ, the cunning kikes managed to take control of both White homelands and the White psyche. Abbos, Nigs or their mutt offsprings(arabs), do not have the problem of Kike propaganda(low iq). They just durka durka and Nig Nog.

>>7603
>if recruitment were as easy as with the dunecoons (where every Palestinian male over the age of 12 will kill a jew given half the chance) then I would say they should damn the risks
100% on the spot. Shitskins have it easy since they're already deeply ethnocentric and, despite everything ZOG has done for them, they hate it. Well, Palestinians at least have good cause to hate it. 
Corsicans are blessed with ethnocentrism, maybe not quite on the level of jews or Palestinians, but still above the average American. Does this translate into the kind of recruitment which they would need to go on a purge for a couple years? I am not sure. 
The other issue is morale. It's a moral blow to go on a purge, even if it's healthy. I'd recommend to them that they spend 5 years infiltrating the police and, cliche as it sounds, training in Russia. Allegedly, some Corsicans are already in the Donbass for training. I think that's not the right place for them. They shouldn't leave Moscow except to practice shooting & making IEDs. They should spend the next few years training how to counteract the police state. 

>>7606
>who the hell believes the youth don't support violence?
A bunch of random journalists. Unfortunately, I have no direct contact with Corsican youth & even if I did, if they were smart, they'd avoid the subject until they could trust me, which is never on the internet.
https://youtu.be/8vm51sR4tRY

>>7609
I'm not saying that you're wrong, but I hate this line of reasoning. We've also waged war for millennia and are undeniably better at it than Arabs. The issue is not our willingness to fight (Retard rednecks pride themselves on dying for Israel), the issue is a weird mental inability to resist government. This strange mental barrier only exists in Germanic populations. Even the French have the inclination to behead their government officials on occasion, but it's not nearly as well developed as other branches of the Aryan-European tree.

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>>7583
>That's simply not possible. As I explained, German society was not like a Paradox strategy game. In order to get anything to happen, you'd have to convince thousands of people to support your leadership in moots, councils, and assemblies. 
Not at first. It's only when closing to the date Day of the Axe that I believe people were gathered and told what was going to happen.
Think for a moment please, the whole attack in the Teutoburg forest was a clever trap set up at a natural bottleneck. It could only succeed if no one, not a single soul, spilled even just one bean one way or another about the move, the place, the warriors gathered there and their intent.
Remember the Spartans at the battle of Thermopylae. They held their ground despite their numbers and Xerxes' army could not pass through the bottleneck, until according to the records a peasant betrayed them, a single cupid man named Ephialtes, some kind of Greek Judas, by providing knowledge about a unique path to go all around the range and attack the Spartans from two sides at once. It's doubtful the Spartans could have held many more days unless they got help, but the point stands. I think something similar happened with Spartacus' rebellion.
Back to Hermann, would only one detail get out of the entire conspiracy it would be over. It was simply unacceptable to take the risk of having the plan be known by too many people too soon.
I think you also greatly underestimate the respect people have in noble and legitimate leaders to the point of following them almost blindly into death. Likewise you seem to ignore the power of oaths, especially in such remote ages when beliefs were so different and when blood honor really meant something to these people.

A hypothetical recruitment scheme I've been thinking about, please give me your feedback.

>join or start a community service volunteer group/gun club/both (may be two separate organizations but the recruitment pool is the same)
>of the above, handpick the fittest (both physically and mentally) and most redpilled members to recruit for a neighborhood watch
>of the above, pick the best (same criteria) members to start a clandestine vigilante group
>of the above, pick only the very best and most loyal to properly induct into the pro-White resistance organization

Massively simplified, but the idea is to have a tiered process of recruitment where each member is assigned based on their capabilities and level of redpilling. Obviously all this would be without their knowledge, they would only find out about the next tier down after being recruited for it, following extensive screening and whatnot. Meanwhile the members on the upper tiers are kept in blissful ignorance. Just like a mystery cult. Secrecy is preserved and so is ideological consistency, as well as ensuring only the best and brightest are in the real fight.

>>7597
The way I can tell is that the French government is on a Holy Mission to brownify as many areas under its control as possible. Any White enclave must be submerged, therefore you shouldn't count on the nigger lovers to relinquish control over anything really.
You also said something which might sound logical but which doesn't meet with reality;
>I am still of the firm belief that basic math will force a regime to disengage from an occupation. Simply put: If the cost of occupying Corsica is more expensive than the net revenue + the monetary value for the shame of losing a core region, the regime would abandon the department.
Africans have been burning and looting buildings and stores for two decades so far and the successive governments keep paying again and again with Whitey's tax money, as the Jews want to keep this biological and demographic weapon under their control to exploit it against the Whites. Even an economical failure would likely not deter them from continuing spending money to buy national peace within the French borders. Or at least I should say that's the way I see it form afar but I could be wrong. With the Jews the frontiers of logic are significantly shifted and moved to places that are truly astounding.
>Well, the standard of living is still relatively high and "violence is le baad" seems to be the primary culprits.
I figure that like anywhere in a relatively peaceful and still comfy situation, tThe people and especially the young ones are relatively happy, I presume, with the current state of affairs: they still can experience most of their culture and even use their language. Tourism is also very good for the island and a full on civil war would ruin all of that so you bet most of the people are against kicking the nest.
>I came across several interviews of Corsicans who pointed out that they achieved more through violence than through peaceful politics.
Do you have a couple of them that are translated or at least that come with subtitles beyond the one linked to here >>7602?
>tax data
Do they even translate it into English? I think they have that bizarre thing with their colonies and special administrative status, right? They have kept a bunch of insular possessions here and there and I have been told that they are for the most part completely nog'd.
In fact, can anyone one give a quick rundown of that country's situation because right now it's nigger central and a absolute blight upon Europe.

>>7612
>It's only when closing to the date Day of the Axe that I believe people were gathered and told what was going to happen.
Maybe true if we're talking the exact specifics of the plan. Having organized events IRL, I suspect that even Hermann didn't know exactly what his plan was until close to the Day of the Axe.
However, he and his confederates absolutely had to publicly state their desire to revolt against the Romans for at least a year to thousands of people, who would then proselytize this ideal to tens of thousands more.
You go on to say how the ambush had to remain a secret in order to work, and I will elaborate on this further, but you imply that Hermann must have kept the whole plan a secret until the day of the battle. Perhaps you'd cede that maybe a hundred tribal leaders could have been brought into the know and perhaps maybe a week or two in advance.

This is simply not possible. I have experience in military logistics so I will game this battle with you. There is NOTHING more important to victory than logistics:
The Romans had about 20,000 men. How many did the Germans field? No one knows. Some speculate that they must have outnumbered the Romans significantly but I suspect otherwise. We'll say that the numbers were even. That's 20,000 men to feed. Do you have any idea how much food that is? And they're going to need the very best food because they intend to fight for 3 days or more. They are going to need lots of food. AND drinking water. Do you think that they dank out of puddles? Teutoborg Forest isn't particularly rich in rivers. There are a couple small streams but the logistics behind providing drinking water to 20,000 men alone would take hundreds of people at least. And now we're forgetting something: Germans often brought their women to battle to chastise cowards and also to aid in the multitude of logistics tasks as important as porting said water to minor things like helping her husband dress in armor. So now we're feeding/watering 20,000 men + an unknown number of women. We may also add an unknown number of assorted camp followers/non-combatants, which was common to the point of near universality in ancient armies. 
Add to this horses. Hermann was captain of a significant cavalry detachment which 100% defected over to the Germans (since they were all Germans, duh). How many horses did Hermann command? We have no idea but we may presume that it must have been significantly more than 500 since the Roman cavalry which tried to escape the battle (doubtless to nobly get help! You wait here... we'll go get help)were ambushed and "overrun" by the German cavalry. Horses require 100 pounds of more fodder per day to remain functional. Again, this is yet more critical logistics which must have involved hundreds of Germans. Now we must address shelter. The Germans didn't just sleep in the mud. Do you have any idea how much housing you need to shelter 20,000 men? Well, add another 15,000 to 25,000 camp followers, women, prostitutes, slaves, etc. Plus you need shelter for the horses because it rained every single day of the battle. Do you think they built it all on the day of battle? That is simply not possible. This would have involved yet more hundreds, perhaps thousands of men and women in the logistics. You need to prepare firewood (green wood does not burn well), blacksmiths (to repair weapons and armor), and of course, warriors require ale and mead to function properly. Oh and let's not forget that Hermann must have had a plan B. We know from countless examples that Celts built forest fortresses to fall back to when they fought the Romans. It's likely that the Germans had constructed at least one fortified food storage depot. God, I could go on and on painting a picture of how complex the logistics for these ancient battles were. People have this idea that battles occurred in a vacuum and just involved soldiers. But behind the scenes of every battle, tens of thousands of logistics personnel were needed to keep the armies from starving. The idea that the Germans lived in mud huts and had no logistics is absurd when you consider just how difficult it is to feed an army of 20,000 or even more. There was literally a large city's worth of people in that forest waiting to make 20,000 Romans have the worst day of their lives. 

The greater point of all of this is obvious: It is literally impossible for only a small number of men to have been in the know for this operation. Maybe the exact details could have been kept secret up until the final weeks, but if literally no one but Hermann and a few chiefs knew where the battle of their age would take place, the entire army would have starved, then frozen to death before the Romans even arrived.

And once again, forget all of this: Hermann STILL had to convince tens of thousands of Germans to revolt in the first place. And yet not one of them tattled to the Romans.
Well, okay, that's not entirely true. Some undoubtedly did but Varus dismissed these reports as spurious. 
This speaks to the immense ethnic loyalty of the German people.

You say or imply that it's impossible for this to have been kept a secret if so many people were involved. In my OP, I did imply that it is impressive that he achieved this level of surprise. But I also explained that this was not abnormal. In our past, ethnic loyalty was so strong that the thought of ratting on your people just did not seem to occur to most men. Let's imagine that you were a German from the Chatti tribe. What would you do to the guy who ratted on your people? Of course you would strip him naked, break his fingers, blind him, smash his heels with a hammer, burn off his balls with a torch, flay his thigh skin, then drag him behind a horse through dung and sharp rocks before throwing scalding water on his raw muscles and then leaving him to die slowly in the woods. Like, what kind of no-good, rotten, inconsiderate son of a gun would tattle on his neighbors? That's just rude! Rude people deserve to be tortured to the point of near insanity and then allowed to slowly and painfully die so they can think about what not to do next time. And this would be a view that was shared by your entire community. 
It wasn't slavish loyalty to some demi-god king that made this possible. It was loyalty to kin.

>>7610
>the issue is a weird mental inability to resist government
It's more an inability to resist order.

Other races will wreak havoc if they're merely upset and need no pretext of change they want realized.
Cop kills a nigger -> cops bad, I am angry -> Riot!
Rather than
Cop kills a nigger -> cops bad, I am angry -> Police should instead be [XYZ] -> Riot until we get our way!
Whites on the other hand need a replacement order before they are willing to destroy the old one. This is true of almost all European revolts, for better or worse.
Parliamentary government was popularized before the French Revolution. 
Independent United States was popularized (or at least organized) before the American Revolution.
National Socialism was popularized before Hitler's rise.
Communism was popularized before the overthrow of the Tsar. 
Even in the cases of old Europe where the situation was simply, "Replace king with better king", the replacement had to have a "legitimate" claim to the throne.

for Whites, you need to legitimize your new order with your would-be recruits before you embark on a revolution.

>>7614
>recruitment scheme 
Oh I get it, it's shaped like a pyramid! A pyramid scheme!

Joking aside, it works well but isn't it obvious?

>>7616
>Africans are unprofitable, therefore this invalidates your theory.
I admit, a fair counter.
However, I feel it is not wholly applicable. Firstly, Africans are a kind of elite luxury good. They do not even cost the elites money since the money used to support Africans comes from the people. Do you think the elites would tolerate Africans in their neighborhoods and consuming their money? Jews certainly do not.
Secondly, despite the jokes we may crack about niggers and their joblessness, the fact is that even if the majority of them do literally no work at all, enough of them do participate in the labor market to drive down the cost of labor. In other words, this puts pressure upon White men to accept lower wages lest they be replaced by 10 niggers. The economic benefits of niggers is immense. 
It is not just jews who benefit from niggers. Remember that White elites selfishly imported niggers and employed them as miners and farmers specifically to subvert their own race and destroy the ability of White yeomen to earn a living.
From the plantation owners who used sharecrop niggers rather than pay White men a decent wage, to South African Boer miners who used nigger labor rather than pay for White men to live there, our elites have been among the most disgusting, backstabbing, soulless traitors in human history. Worse even than the jews because at least the jews look out for their own. These actual demons helped the jews destroy their own race because they could save 2 fucking cents per day by employing niggers instead of their own people.
And again, let's not forget that all the burning and looting only occurs in White working class neighborhoods, never the gated communities of the rich. The rich suffer none of the effects of niggers and gain all the benefits.

Anyway, I still maintain that if the Corsicans could cause greater monetary loss than the regime gains through taxes and business, (plus the pride-geld that comes from owning Corsica), the Parisian regime would be forced to cede it whatever they wanted to make the explosions go away.

>I presume, with the current state of affairs: they still can experience most of their culture and even use their language
Yeah. The problem they face is the same as the one we face racially, just on a smaller scale. It's comfortable being Corsican. But their high IQ folks know that within a few generations, they will go extinct if nothing is done.

Per the articles, I only can read English (and German) so I only read English articles about the conflict. You're gonna hate me, but I cannot find exactly which articles contain which interviews with random Corsicans who disapproved of the violence. I really do want these interviews to be lies or with extremists who don't value their culture. I'm not Corsican, I just naturally like insurgents. Especially if they blow up banks. Especially if those banks are in Paris. I concur with your analysis of the French regime.
>Do they even translate (their tax data) into English?
Again, I do not know. It could be that there is data but it's only in French. But then, why can I find exact data on the net tax revenue of Bryansk Oblast, but I cannot find such data on any department of France?
Again, France is less open and transparent than fucking Russia. It's absurd.

>>7609
>The problem of White passivity is racial
citation needed
>arabs possessing partial african ancestry 
again citation needed (north african sure, but I highly doubty most palis have subsaharan ansestory) 
>The only way Whites can ever overpower the kikes is by mixing their blood with the niggers
this is a really, really bad idea
You are stupid, probably some sort of shill, but in the off case you aren't I will explain to you why palis actioaully fight very hard, and how White people can do the same. 
The reason they fight so hard is that they have exausted every other option. They have tried reformism (Palestinean Authority) and it failed, and they tried peaceful protests (2018 great march of return) also failed. When every option besides violent resistance is made impossible, and no resistance will lead to certain doom, that is when people will turn to violence. Also the Gazans have been indoctrinated for thirty years with militant nationalist (from their prespective) ideology by a vanguard party (hamas) which makes them more willing to fight. Here is an article that explains it much better than I could. 
https://littoria.substack.com/p/yahya-sinwars-impossible-resolve
The lessons for White Nationalists are pretty simple, have a dedicated vanguard organization that can indoctrinate your people in an ideological foundation for resistance, root out traitors and spies, and be willing to sacrifice everything (including your life) in order to win.

>>7621
>isn't it obvious?
How do you mean?

>>7624
Do not all organizations of such a nature practice compartmentalization? Maybe I am overestimating how much systematizing goes on in rebel groups.

>>7614
I support your pro-active thinking.
I'm trying to build a community watch in my area.
I have problems (I live in boomerville) but I must do what I can.

I'd give you the following critique: Think very hard about how things would function in a real world situation. Plan around incompetence and your plan will function much better than if you plan around all 200 IQ super-geniuses.

>>7625
Oh, so we were on the same brainwave after all. Nevermind, I was just overthinking.  In any case, one issue I could see coming up is that I'd be the connecting thread between all groups and so secrecy could be potentially compromised if a member of one tier suspects about the existence of a deeper one and that I might be involved. I could alleviate that issue by recruiting through proxies in the same tier, but that would require already having fully redpilled recruits with me already. Or maybe I'm overthinking again.

>>7628
I think what you describe has a lot to do with trust. All members of each 'tier' need to trust you. If they understand that any secrecy you practice is for the good of the group, they will not pry to the point of liability.
If they do not trust you, then they as you describe it will cause tension. They may even fear you are a police informant.

How to build that trust is something which cannot be taught but I will say that trust is not the same as abject worship, which is counterproductive. "Trust but verify" is a good principle to instill, I think.

>>7583
>What's the difference?
One is vague and includes all races, the other is not. As simple as that.

>>7618
>However, he and his confederates absolutely had to publicly state their desire to revolt against the Romans for at least a year to thousands of people, who would then proselytize this ideal to tens of thousands more.
Not really. The assault involved only several thousand warriors extracted from the nearest parts of sort-of-Germany. The equivalent of a village or a very small town. As long as dozens of chieftains would be able to gather one or two hundred men each, you'd get your band of bruder. You don't need to sell your idea down to every single kinder, nor advertise it for a full year. You would need to be careful about whom you can trust and you'd better be sure that your elevator pitch sounds convincing enough too to get that many people ready to face death for legitimate reasons.
>You go on to say how the ambush had to remain a secret in order to work, and I will elaborate on this further, but you imply that Hermann must have kept the whole plan a secret until the day of the battle. 
No, that's no my position. Only that the amount of people who needed to know what would happen in sufficient detail had to be kept low. The less details, the more vague the knowledge about an event that may happen, the more people would hear about something cooking. I suspect things accelerated a lot weeks prior to the event. The Romans also had to be baited so there's definitely a strong chance that some false information was sent their way.
>The Romans had about 20,000 men. How many did the Germans field? No one knows. Some speculate that they must have outnumbered the Romans significantly but I suspect otherwise.
I don't think they needed more. The element of surprise, the attack against the flanks of three large and prestigious legions all stretched thin that prevented them from assembling into their most efficient formations made them far more open to destruction than usual.
>Teutoborg Forest isn't particularly rich in rivers.
The battle literally followed the path of a river.
>logistics
Point noted but there are ways to gather resources for special occasions without again leaking out sensitive information.
You're also blowing the shelter and woman aspect out of proportions in my opinion. They were not setting up a summer camp or a funfare and likely had much more to do with how the Foreign Legion operates: with minimal resources and a lot of makeshift skills. They could use one or two closest villages as regrouping points and places to gather food and other necessary items from other villages branching out in numbers the further away you'd move from the focus of the coming battle. In other words, resources would be funneled towards that region. In fact they might have even used this as a cover? Anything carried beyond that would be temporary and in a large part only used for the battle. Again, all of which would have progressively started forming and concentrating up towards the battle's region, with resources shipped as late as possible. Before that they would merely need to have the leaders ask for a gathering of food resources: the people would not even need to know if there would be a massive peaceful event, and then later one when signs of impeding war would be obvious, they wouldn't need to know that warriors were going to throw themselves into another internecine tribal fight or else. The implicit network that would be the backbone of the aggregated army didn't need to be revealed. Each subgroup only being given information on a need-to-know basis.
They could not set up the equivalent of a temporary town right next to the battle zone either because a concentration of fires and smoke may give off the presence of Hermann's forces, although they'd certainly have considered setting up a smaller camp of some sort at a more secure distance, with Herman's knowledge used to mimic the functionality of the Romans' efficient logistics. But that camp would not need to be anything more than very temporary and probably far less glamorous than the expensive tents used by said Romans.
As for the cavalry, I question how much any of it had been present, that for one simple reason. You may be able to tell a human to remain silent, but not a horse. Even less a hundred horses, even when you use hypothetical harnesses to keep their mouth shut between meals.
>The greater point of all of this is obvious: It is literally impossible for only a small number of men to have been in the know for this operation.
That is because you make the mistake of thinking that a whole new town was exactly installed next to the trap and that every single peasant contributing to wood chopping or the gathering of food had to know what was going on, even months prior to the fateful event, as if a whole nation was building a pristine new stadium. Yet no matter how much we slice and dice this, the assault really depended on the quality of the trap and the secrecy. So all activities that would count as support for the constitution of the army would need to be disguised as "all natural, nothing to see here, keep scrolling."
My argument is that Hermann couldn't afford revealing the existence of the whole network, nor give out its purpose. He really had to keep a tight control on the flow of information and who needed to know what in order to build this adventure up.
On top of this, the German tribes probably also had an advantage contrary to the Gauls being that they had been less affected by Roman culture, and were likely resentful of former defeats that ended with their sons taken away as an obligatory tithe. This too would positively contribute to the secrecy of the operation. Add the language barrier and the high concentration of forestry, making the entire region a rather obscure landscape, like a sponge gorged with water (warriors) which would release its content once pressed only at the last minute so to speak.
>And once again, forget all of this: Hermann STILL had to convince tens of thousands of Germans to revolt in the first place.
This is not necessary for the same reason that grunts don't have to be convinced of anything to obey. They just take their orders and that's it. In this case, the professionalism or a Roman or modern army is traded with the blood-bond, the oaths and a likely hatred for anything Roman.
Imagine yourself being a random tribesman. You saw that your own village started gathering resources to some extent, at least reorganizing some surplus for some untold reason. Your leader wouldn't say anything about until he deems it necessary. Then one day you and your fellow Germans are called and your leader delivers a speech that explains that a complex project had been put into motion that involves several tribes and the population of many villages and that it involves launching an assault on Roman legions in, say, a geographically favorable place. Many thousands of other men (and women to some extent, for logistics) living in those lands have already answered the call (the leader may make use of artistic liberty here to get his men's juices pumped up). This is a historical event, our ancestors and the gods are watching over us blah blah blah. Now all the food, leather and ore gathering makes sense. We're going to war and we will kick some Roman ass and even grab one of their damned precious eagle banners, just to add more reee to their saltiness.
>You say or imply that it's impossible for this to have been kept a secret if so many people were involved.
I state that it's impossible for this to work if the details are shared far too wide, with too many people, far too soon, considering what appears to be a very noticeable frailty to the entire plan if it gets leaked. It's very obvious that the more undercover the entire ops could remain, the better. Some aspects of this battle and her preliminary preparation logically had to be kept under wraps to some extent. By the time it was impossible to hide the full logistics of the operation anymore and so whatever would reach the Romans would be fake information, the most sensitive aspect of the assault, the trap's position, still had to be a late surprise for most men while the Roman thought the battle would take place further East and kept trotting in that direction sure of themselves.
>But I also explained that this was not abnormal. In our past, ethnic loyalty was so strong that the thought of ratting on your people just did not seem to occur to most men.
As I said and proved, it would only take one man knowing enough information. There would have been numerous chieftains and other families who would have genuinely feared reprisals from Rome against their own children taken over there, because that's what Romans would do sometimes to make sure that the vanquished tribes remained loyal. And we know that despite all of Hermann's gained reputation and glory after such an incredible victory, he still got betrayed by people from his own race.
I don't think we will change our minds on this, I believe I have provided enough arguments to substantiate my side of the question. I for one know what I'd have done if I had been in Hermann's shoes.
>Like, what kind of no-good, rotten, inconsiderate son of a gun would tattle on his neighbors?
Have you ever heard of the Stasi's 1% rule?
Again, whether we like it or not, such traitors existed right next to Hermann, temporally speaking.

>>7620
With more and more people being discontent with democracy and the current batch of leaders, with some many people abstaining from voting, I think the legitimacy of a deep change is definitely growing in people's heart and minds, perhaps more than we think. For now, people may not be ready to topple the current structure but I feel like at the same time they don't really believe there's any usual solution, like voting differently, etc. For sure the ((( medias ))) do everything to keep people thinking that the current institutions are only hurt by bad apples but could be quickly be redeemed. It takes a something else to see beyond this and wish for a complete overhaul.

>>7640
The only people who matter are White people.
Furthermore, if I can take this nice phrase from the enemy, I would do so.

>>7641
>The assault involved only several thousand warriors extracted from the nearest parts of sort-of-Germany.
You do not have any source on the number of German warriors involved since there are no such sources. While I don't believe that Hermann needed to have outnumbered the Romans by a great deal, it would be extremely unlikely that a "few thousand" could defeat 20,000 Legionaries and Auxillia. 
Most historians agree that his force numbered between 18,000 and 30,000.

>The battle literally followed the path of a river.
Fair point.

You mention the Foreign Legion but that's a modern army. Ancient militaries were nowhere near as professional. Ancient armies and wars were a cross between warfare and festivals with huge camp followings. That's a large part of the reason why Rome and Macedon were so effective: they (tried to) cut out the excess baggage.
Maybe they could have used local villages as base camps, but again, 20,000 men or even 10,000 (which is stretching things) is a huge number to house and feed. The logistics still presents a challenge which would involve hundreds if not thousands of people.
>You may be able to tell a human to remain silent, but not a horse.
An ambush on this scale no longer really needs silence on so small a scale. Cavalry would be absolutely essential for such an engagement so you could send forces around to hot-spots and to cut off elements of the Roman force. Remember, we're still dealing with 20,000 Romans + their own camp following. That's a huge force and unlike in film depictions, the real battle involved dozens if not hundreds of local clashes over the course of miles. Cavalry would be an absolute game changer and if only the Romans had fielded it, they could have won, easily.
You're also making the mistake of presuming that the Roman intelligence gathering apparatus was better than it was. Again, Germans were not interested in talking with Romans. 
I am not saying that every peasant had to know "the plan" in its full detail. However, they did need to know that a revolt was planned and yet the Romans were still taken off guard because the number of traitors was so low.

>This is not necessary for the same reason that grunts don't have to be convinced of anything to obey
German tribal society wasn't a modern military. Most "government", if you could even call it that, was localized. Family networks got everything done. In order to convince the Chatti to revolt, you'd need at the very least to convince a wide ranging council of the tribal nobility. Just how large these bodies were is unknown but given how distributed power was, we can assume it was a wider range than later medieval nobility, which was still a huge number of men. And then these guys would need to give orders to their familial networks. Do you really think they all kept the nature of their preparations a secret from their extended families? I do not buy it.

>Your leader wouldn't say anything about until he deems it necessary.
Except that "my leader" is not just some guy in a vacuum. It's a clan. And unless I'm a slave, I'm probably just a few family members away from being related to that village leader. Again, I do not buy that this sort of thing can be kept a secret. But you know who I wouldn't be closely related to? A Roman. So if I, a distant cousin of the village chief, might tell my second nephew that he'll be earning his shield soon, I sure as hell will not be telling a foreigner and I see no reason why my second nephew would either.
>Some aspects of this battle and her preliminary preparation logically had to be kept under wraps to some extent
I agree with you and do not mean to imply that Hermann went from moot to moot detailing every step of his plan. Instead, I believe that he had to first convince them in broad terms to revolt. You're right that the exact plan could have been put together weeks or months before the ambush. I do not dispute this.
> he still got betrayed by people from his own race.
True, but this is apples vs oranges. It's one thing to defend yourself against foreigners, but another to see a member of your own people exert kingly rule over other tribes which have been independent since time immemorial.

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>>7643
By several thousands I don't mean a "few thousand", I didn't use such words, but I don't believe in many tens of thousands either to the point of outnumbering the Romans. I can agree to 18-20K troops. On the other hand, the strength of the legions has always been preparation and control of the terrain, notably to organize in precise formations and force the enemy's moves. If you remove this you remove their greatest strength and push them into a situation where they'd have to be dealing with a surprise guerilla warfare for which they were simply not so well trained.
They'd also have to carry around all their stuff into enemy territory while the Germans could collect their resources from various points in and around the forest, which means that what Germans would bring to the very battle site would be warriors only, much less burdened by the implicit convoy necessities afflicting the Romans and eating up a certain amount of men from those ~20,000 people.
>auxiliaries
They are usually already counted among the 20,000. That's logically why the counting from only three legions which would have amounted to 15,000-17,000 soldiers manages with an extra to reach 20,000 men.
>Foreign Legion
For a long time their logistics were rather questionable, decades ago they seldom had any grounded transport vehicles. They were very sturdy walkers. They had resources of course but looked more like a poor man's army in comparison to what other developed armies including the regular French army carried around with them. Which really gives a special meaning to "Legion" in their name because they almost feel anachronistic, like a Roman legion but with guns. For one, they would hardly be able to lay a siege, not only because they didn't have the numbers for that, but because they just didn't have the logistics. But hit and run tactics would have been much more in their book if push came to shove.
I hesitated drawing a comparison to the FARC too, notably because of their habit of operating in forested environments, but they were more like one big gang of thugs with guns spreading like a cancer though many small cells in hard to reach regions.
>the feeding
The German men who fought were commoners. They already had their usual means of nutrition, they didn't need anything special that would suddenly pop out of nowhere and look suspicious. Obviously by not being a long standing regular army, Hermann's forces had to cannibalize to a certain extent their own normal resources and tap into their yearly reserves. But I hardly see how that would have required them to suddenly shift their entire production multiple times up in ways that would be calling for inspection. After all, their logistics were temporary, contrary to that of the Romans. They could afford such a sacrifice.
>An ambush on this scale no longer really needs silence on so small a scale.
If this were true it wouldn't be an ambush anymore. Yet the story is absolutely clear on this, it was an ambush. They even had created a camouflaged palisade along a significant length of the track the Romans would follow. There would be no point going to such lengths to create this very tense ambush that hinged on one big spring if at the same time you'd let countless tens of thousands of people know the plan for months in advance. You don't need large settlements when your attack is not meant to last more than a few hours instead of looking at an installation that would stand as a backup base for days, weeks or months of warfare.
>Cavalry would be absolutely essential for such an engagement so you could send forces around to hot-spots and to cut off elements of the Roman force.
The river blocked the Romans and the attack was launched along their entire long walking line. It fragmented it.
>Cavalry would be an absolute game changer and if only the Romans had fielded it, they could have won, easily.
They had some but it was useless in such terrain. Cavalry is used to charge at enemy troops on clear and more or less flat terrain mostly and to break formation, which the legions often seek. The charge doesn't give horses time to think as they are whipped into rushing forward. The advantage of horses in a forest, even more a dark one, is nigh useless. They couldn't even organize a charge and because of the surprise the horses would certainly be scared, almost already routing to some extent.
And I can tell you that horses can be very noisy, especially in a forested vale. If any German cavalry existed, it would have been kept far away and only used for mopping up the fleeing Roman soldiers at a later stage further up the road.
>Roman intelligence
I don't assume much about it since I don't even claim they'd be particularly active about it because the snitching would come from the German themselves, from locals. I mean, imagine that, after having utterly crushed no less than three legions, at the height of his fame and legitimacy and definitely at a time when it would be unthinkable to turn against this intertribal (national) hero in such tense times when Germans are fighting for their liberty, you still had petty nobles ready to betray him and who precisely did it, because Hermann proved that it was impossible to keep an empire at bay without a minimum of gathering of power at a wider scale for such circumstances, and that hurt these sellouts in their feelings. It also goes without saying that much of the Romans' understanding of the current situation in the German lands directly came from Hermann himself who knew how to lie to them.
>I am not saying that every peasant had to know "the plan" in its full detail. However, they did need to know that a revolt was planned and yet the Romans were still taken off guard because the number of traitors was so low.
The Romans could have thought that any rumor of the Germans also organizing their forces several weeks prior to the invasion was perhaps a natural reaction to their own plans having leaked to some extent, but it would be dealt with as usual. There definitely was an affordable amount of leaking acceptable on both sides I suppose, but not in the same quantity, as it was the Germans who had a lot to lose if the intricacies of their real plan were vented. While Hermann would cover as much as he could by the advantage of his own position by feeding the Roman leadership with false information, he had no certainty that he could trust every single chief, inhabitant and merchant either.
>German tribal society wasn't a modern military. 
I covered that already. Human mentality hasn't changed, there always were and will be followers. All they look up to is legitimacy. Back then when people's minds were not so polluted with education and media, they had their faith and a much healthy link to their leaders. Legitimate leaders would be followed. The final moment when the people would need to rally for real could easily happen very late while the rising sentiment of proto-nationalism would grow progressively. It also wouldn't be too hard to convince people to prepare for war since Rome had no way to prevent the knowledge of the incoming invasion from spreading, if only because mobilizing three entire legions is not something you can brush beneath the rug. The Romans would be expecting some kind of activity on the other side of the Rhine. But nothing like one of their own military leaders betraying them by gathering a whole opposite army and above all laying the ground for a deadly ambush. Most of the German gathering of resources and preparation could have been shoved under the idea of preparing for resisting against the invasion, which then at a later time would have been revealed to be part of a plan to actually mobilize all these forces for a secretive and well coordinated general assault.
>In order to convince the Chatti to revolt, you'd need at the very least to convince a wide ranging council of the tribal nobility.
It wouldn't be that hard when they were about to be invaded, subdued, their culture altered and then forced to pay taxes to old men in robes living in a place where snow is almost unheard of, while their noble sons would be taken away as a measure of blackmail.
>And then these guys would need to give orders to their familial networks. Do you really think they all kept the nature of their preparations a secret from their extended families? I do not buy it.
"We need to resist as a group and prepare for invasion" already covers most of the requirements but allows the leaders of the revolt not to have to divulge the critical aspects of the plan.
>Except that "my leader" is not just some guy in a vacuum. It's a clan. And unless I'm a slave, I'm probably just a few family members away from being related to that village leader.
You have never heard of the concept of family secrets, haven't you?
>Instead, I believe that he had to first convince them in broad terms to revolt. You're right that the exact plan could have been put together weeks or months before the ambush. I do not dispute this.
Agreed.
>So if I, a distant cousin of the village chief, might tell my second nephew that he'll be earning his shield soon, I sure as hell will not be telling a foreigner and I see no reason why my second nephew would either.
Right, you're a good guy. But you can't vouch for the others.
>It's one thing to defend yourself against foreigners, but another to see a member of your own people exert kingly rule over other tribes which have been independent since time immemorial.
The victory against Rome changed everything about the dynamics of power and proved that a unification was necessary as long as there would exist a neighboring empire with a great appetite. Some men stuck in their old ways were unable to see this, to the point of willingly killing the one hero who was responsible for their liberty still being a thing in Germania, the same man who had not given up after the Day of the Axe, who remained leading the armed groups that repelled the subsequent retaliations. That is the great man they murdered as one colossal dick move. When you're ready to morally scoop so low you simply are ready for the worse. That is the vilest kind of backstabbing possible, in the same vein as what was seen during WWI with the communist strikes. Such people have no honor and are only concerned for their well being and power, they're materialistic, which is the same exact mentality that earlier on could have brought them to think that being nice to the Romans and accepting to pay some taxes wouldn't be such a terrible hurdle in comparison to literally dying and seeing their family's wealth being wasted. Thinking that Hermann wouldn't be aware of this critical risk and wouldn't take preemptive measures against it is absurd. He also knew how cruel the Romans could be and what would await the Germanic tribes if they were to fail after this revolt.

>>7642
we don't need the mooosses. we need a few more young white men with rope, AKs, and a desire for extermination of that which would have us brown.

>>7663
And a sprawling communication network and material support. Don't underestimate the effort needed.

>>7644
>they'd have to be dealing with a surprise guerilla warfare for which they were simply not so well trained.
Not disagreeing with you but I must point out that the Romans were not helpless in the face of ambushes. Remember that Julius Caesar's invasion of Britain was basically one continuous series of ambushes. Yet the Romans easily swatted them away.
What I will say is that the Romans, in fact no ancient or medieval government was pervasive enough to even notice if the Germans, Basques, peasants etc were changing their diet. Again, I am not arguing against what you wrote directly but to address the implication in your words that the Roman state could have been monitoring the German population to the degree which you imply they may have been. One of the secrets that allowed ancient societies to engage in open talk of revolt without the government catching on was the fact that the central government simply couldn't spy on everyone. But again, the other important factor was the strong sense of ethnic and local community.
Take the Cornish Rebellion of 1540. The English were caught nearly completely by surprise and, for a time, Cornish rebels held total control over their countryside. Now, it was eventually crushed, unlike Hermann's Revolt. But how is it that the English didn't know about it until it began?
Simply put, because no one told them. Remember that Cornish people lived in Cornish communities and you could talk frankly about your feelings towards the foreign English overlords without worrying about rat-faced anti-White liberals ratting on you to the FBI. The very thought that someone would betray their ethnic family was preposterous. 
For goodness sake, it took the Persians three days to find even one guy who would show them a goat path that literally every Greek in the area knew about. The level of ethnic loyalty in the past was just so much better than it is today, at least among White people.

>They had some but it was useless in such terrain
Let's not forget that in the Iron Age, indeed in most pre-modern settings, there were always places clear-cut for grazing, charcoal production, and farming. Furthermore, even this is misleading as real ancient battles were not like Rome Total War where you fought in flat fields. Real battlefield settings were mostly farms and hedges, basically very broken terrain. Anyway, I simply disagree that cavalry was useless. The opposite, in fact. Cavalry would be extremely useful. As for it giving away their position, just research ancient and even early-modern battles. Whole cavalry forces crashed into each other by accident. For instance, during the English Civil War, the forces of Charles I accidentally marched behind the Roundhead army. Two entire armies of tens of thousands of men in a non-forested setting literally walked past each other with neither party being aware of the other until they ran into each other. Before airplanes, getting intel on the enemy's position was extremely difficult.

>It wouldn't be that hard when they were about to be invaded, subdued, their culture altered and then forced to pay taxes
This was 9 AD, they had already been conquered. This was the revolt.
>You have never heard of the concept of family secrets, haven't you?
Where do you get this line of reasoning? Anon, tribal society is basically extended family society. You are obsessed with the idea that this massive revolt could be kept a total secret but it's just not possible. 
I'm not trying to be rude but I have noticed in my years as a "right winger" that the right is obsessed with the idea of secrecy. And there is good reason for this. But ancient societies were not modern police states. If you lived out in Teuton-town, quite literally everyone there was a fellow Teuton. And your connection to the capital or the enemy who conquered you was tenuous at best. Simply put, you could talk openly about whatever you liked without fear that the Romans or Franks or whatever would bust down your door to kill you. In fact, rural people were almost a law unto themselves for most of our history. 

>proved that a unification was necessary
Maybe to you & me, maybe even to the average German peasant. But the elite aristocracy will always stand to lose the most when a people centralize. They're the ones who killed him in the end, not the German people.
A fish rots from its head. Noble corruption is a problem as old as time.

>>7668
>ancient societies were not modern police states
>you could talk openly about whatever you liked without fear
Indeed. It is horribly depressing how much we have lost as a people. I find it hard to continue on this path knowing that the combination of deracination and the endless march of surveillance technology have made revolution almost impossible.

>>7669
>revolution almost impossible.
>the endless march of surveillance technology
not true at all! Do you have any idea how easy it is to reduce power-grids to multi-million-debt monoliths overnight? Five ton detransistor complexes aren't sold at Wogmart or anything, by the way, and replacing power infrastructure damage takes half a year minimum. You could organise this in multiple states at once SOLO; WITHOUT ANY TINY POSSIBILITY OF CONSPIRACY by just strapping burner-phone-call-linked explosives or incendiaries to unguarded transistors and calling the numbers in quick succession from another burner phone. Become liquid acceleration, stoker of the cleansing flame, invisible assassin of the System -- or mither and ruminate on Internet forums, occasionally reading redundant esoteric nonsense books. Your choice!

>Indeed. It is horribly depressing how much we have lost as a people.
Not really! We'll wade out of this Christly quagmire so much neater and evolved than we stumbled into it.

>I find it hard to continue on this path
Sniveling COWARD! Then at least do something for our kin before blowing your brains out!

>deracination
I don't feel deracinated, I don't know about you. Actually, this white race is filthy, and in need of a bleach bubble bath -- luckily, they are also dependent on industrial technology, every myriad kind of race traitor and genetically-inferior lowling.

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>>7669
I also tremble, slightly, at the thought. I used to be in favor of rebellion at the earliest opportunity. But further analysis has convinced me that we should eschew violence and instead focus on building pro-White social organizations. We cannot afford to waste our most dedicated men in failed insurgencies that don't go anywhere, like the Order. 
Mind you, this doesn't mean denounce violence. I have argued for years in favor of voicing support for even failed lone wolf attacks because there is literally nothing to be gained from denouncing what has already happened.

>>7672
It's not that easy, brother.
Firstly, being a lone wolf is an extremely difficult thing. You have to do everything yourself by yourself, fund yourself, drive yourself, and you have no backup and have to provide your own get-away. In practical terms this means, (in a hypothetical strike), you need to drive yourself to the target location in your own car, then park within walking distance of it rather than have a confederate waiting far off to pick you up within minutes of your strike. This exposes you to ten times more risk. Also, two heads are better than one. You will inevitably miss things that will seem obvious in retrospect because you didn't have a different mind to analyze your plan. 

Then we must consider what the purpose of it all is. Say that you take down the grid. Now what? Nothing.
In order to overthrow ZOG, we need actual pro-White forces organized and waiting to exploit such a grid failure.
I used to be exactly like you but I realized that I was being reactive and aimless. The end goal of your plan seems to be the destruction itself. The success is taking down power for a couple days. 

Even if this was a worthy goal, it would be far better if it were done by multiple teams of 2-3. This way, even if one team got captured, the others could continue striking and causing damage over years rather than just a few times before the loner got captured. The strength in asymmetric warfare is the ability to repeat small attacks over years to attrition the state. 

I am not a coward and neither is >>7669. We do not have infinite numbers to throw in prison and if we did, it still would be better to use our numbers wisely.

>>7672
Where are your multi-million-debt monoliths?

>>7673
>Say that you take down the grid. Now what? Nothing.
>In order to overthrow ZOG, we need actual pro-White forces organized and waiting to exploit such a grid failure.
In order to organise actual pro-White forces you need to have an incentive, which means no choice to sit at home on benefits and play video games because you have no power. These phantom "actual forces"; "actual insurgencies"; "actual organisations" are an explicit non-sequitir and the rationale behind this sentiment always leads to kinsmen with good intentions ineffectually strengthening the System by creating organisations which painfully conform around following the pig System's electronically-enforced laws. The psychological pressure from the System's dominance is so terrifying and massive that even masterfully-planned, opportunistic and uncompromising efforts like the Atomwaffen Division are doomed to failure.
Simply, why would the donkey (our folk in its Roman decadence) move (systematise with higher, more DIFFICULT, by proxy anti-democratic standards) if he can get carrots where he's standing? We acclerationists say: light a fire beneath him, and he will move!

To summarise this crucial point,
>Say that you take down the grid. Now what? Nothing.
Yes! Nothing! The abscence! The void to be replaced! Don't bother with the "ermm...,,,, we haven't got daaa infracstructuuur o algo" line because I know as a white man I have mine with our race, that's my and your personal racial responsibility at this time.

>Also, two heads are better than one.
Two heads can be a liability, but true regardless.

>Firstly, being a lone wolf is an extremely difficult thing.
there are plenty of other similarly-awesome positions in our race's domain for those not cut out for the sweat of a lone wolf.

>The end goal of your plan seems to be the destruction itself. The success is taking down power for a couple days
destruction of the Pig System at any cost, absolutely! I don't give a shit about concessions or muh Troomp or whatever. All Systemites must be shot, and harming the Beast System, which despises and betrays our kind, feeds myriad NIGGERS of the soul and blood, is the greatest end.

>Even if this was a worthy goal, it would be far better if it were done by multiple teams of 2-3.
I wasn't trying to be provide good tactical advice, it was an example, I suggest finding substance of argument to criticise instead.

>We do not have infinite numbers to throw in prison and if we did
THE PIG SYSTEM HAS NOT INFINITE PRISON, WE ARE SLAVES ANYWAY, AND YOU HAVE NOT TO GET CAUGHT! HOW WILL THEY CATCH YOU WITHOUT THE CELL TOWERS AND COMPUTERS!?

>it still would be better to use our numbers wisely.
redundant, redundant, redundant

>picrel
Andrew Anglin-esque miserable Internetslop. Do better, faggot!

>>7685
I comprehend your position. To iron man it a little
>taking down the grid is good because it removes the propaganda of the regime & forces White men to get off their ass or starve. Perhaps pro-White organization could take place when the lights are out & cameras down
Ideally, yes. And if it were this simple, maybe it would be worthwhile to support. But multiple things make this impractical.

Firstly, not to be cliche, but no one here is gonna do that. I'm a coward, you're a coward, we're all cowards. Why this is so is irrelevant. Maybe we're all a bit brainwashed by materialism but to ignore this trait would ruin your plan. Even if you were not a coward (btw, I am not trying to insult you personally but to make a blunt observation which I apply to myself as well) and you also overcame some of the other problems I will address, you have no way of guaranteeing that others follow suit. Thus, if you are captured, your reign of terror will end having achieved little in the grand scheme of things.
Insurgency must be sustainable over the course of years and decades to be effective. It sounds un-romantic & lame but it is true. This is especially true if the objective is to attrition the enemy's infrastructure. The lives of men are infinitely more valuable than objects.

Secondly, the power grid is not as weak as you think it is. I'd like some electricians to weigh in on this (hey, maybe I'm full of shit) but I will spitball things. If the grid could be taken out by shooting transformers, then we'd have rolling blackouts after every storm. You bring up redundancy and that is exactly what the grid encapsulates. 
Actually, and I am not advocating this per se, I believe that your suggestion is wasteful. Creating a cellphone bomb to go after transformers is high input, low reward. The critical link in the chain is more likely substations, but even taking out one of them is not enough as the Met Calf substation attack demonstrates. Cell activated IEDs seem like overkill and a potential identification tool for the police to track you down. Much better to use some sort of industrial rubber-band to launch molatov cocktails (augmented with styrofoam or oil to enhance its stickiness and heat) at long range at the vulnerable step-down transformers.
The more contact you have in & around the substations, the more likely you are going to get caught. The more you mess around with explosives which require purchase, the more likely you will get caught.

Furthermore, taking out easy substations just cuts power to rural (ie White) populations. The areas most important to take out are not as unsecure as rural ones. 

Thirdly, even if you could take out power over a wide area, this isn't guaranteed to cut White people off from power as the system is vast and its power network wide.

Fourthly, again I want to analyze the goal here. So, say that one did cut power in a rural area for a few days while they restore power. What realistically will happen? Certainly not spontaneous White organization. If power just happened to go off where you live, is that what you would immediately do? You wouldn't even know the cause of the power outage for several days, assuming you didn't get power restored quickly. And urban areas are cut, at best this would only lead to temporary looting, not race rioting.
So what do you even expect will happen?
If you elected to go on such a quest, you would not be able to influence the result of your heroism or you would expose yourself to an even higher likelihood of capture.

Despite your hostility, I like you because you're thinking pro-actively. But I also want you to think realistically. Contemplate how others will react to your hypothetical actions, not the way you'd like them to react.

Do NOT interpret this as advocating for illegality (whoever may be reading this) but I recommend that you test for yourself how challenging it is to conduct "terror" attacks on your own. Plan out and go on a dry-run of something which you feel might work. Do not do it in a place with cameras or bring anything suspicious. If your plan involves a specific target, just choose a random area in the woods or an abandoned warehouse as a substitute. Be systematic in planning how you would go about everything from preparation, transportation, arrival, execution, and evac. You will glean many lessons from physically training which you would never have even considered from just idle thought. 
There is a reason why militaries excessively train their soldiers. The physical act will teach you many things.

If you take this advice, I wish you good luck. Maybe I'm just a stupid coward who doesn't know what he is talking about. Maybe it's easy.

>>7603
>>The issue with modern insurgencies is the surveillance state
>Absolutely. It is the greatest threat to action for all of us.
I would say that the greatest threat is our standard of living as well the bread and circus keeping the lemming urbanite distracted and satisfied. Drugs are also a factor in keeping the population compliant.
Surveillance states could only function well in a happy and docile population that has their needs fulfilled.

>>7694
True enough. A gang of niggers could disable an entire city's worth of cameras in a month given electric bikes, spray paint and baseball bats.

>>7668
At this point it's so clear that you're reading what you want from my post that I can't be bothered to continue but if there's one point you ought to explain convincingly, it's how you think that a country that had been conquered by Romans could easily organize an uprising without being extra careful about the big plan. Your position is jus not coherent at all. You're just proving that the plan had to be kept even more secret.

>>7685
You can't bring enough damage to the power grid and the GSM network (and don't forget the satellites, oops) on your own. You would need multiple cells. That's an unofficial army.
Justice is compromised. The whole army is compromised. The police is compromised. Schools and medias pump poison all day long into the heads of countless million people. The breadth of such degeneracy and evil is unbound. Lone wolves will be able to operate with meaningful results if they know brothers elsewhere are doing the same, in sufficient quantity. Their modus operandi will be that of sabotage and punctual elimination of prime targets, all as silent as possible and with no glorification expected in return with one shot suicidal voyeuristic behaviors. Precious assets have to be kept alive and free.
Yet the only way to have such cells is to have places on Earth were people can be trained and sufficiently organized, or at least to be given tools, methods and a reliable list of targets and objectives too coordinate with other mobile cells. Do we have anything that remotely approaches an area where our people could be trained for self-defense and eventually discreetly selected for such LW ops? Certainly not in Ukraine. For Europe you'd have to look into countries that have kept things under wraps. A few Baltic ones, perhaps Serbia and Hungary, and maybe a place or two in Italy. For the US, the mid to upper central states with their largely unpopulated areas would be a good start. That training would need to be serious and the equipment real, well supplied.

>>7687
I absolutely concede, in every single possible regard, to not knowing a single thing about power stations, and I will openly clarify I only know it as weak because of the pdf “Redstone Killers” which was written by someone who knows what he’s talking about. I have no clue what I’m talking about and am saying what I say for effect; my point is it is undoubtedly easy to damage infrastructure because literally no civil citizen would do it like come on, and also purely second-hand evidence which I can’t be bothered to blogpost about.

>>7710
>I have no clue what I’m talking about and am saying what I say for effect
That's not a great way to put forth an opinion in good faith.

>>7711
penis balls vagina sex

>>7710
Good luck out there, brother. Maybe someday we will see for sure. For now, we must build legal networks. Prepare for a long struggle which we will not live to see the end of, and maybe we will get surprised. 
That's what happened to Lenin (he wrote that he didn't expect to see the fruition of his efforts). If it happened to him, maybe cosmic justice will give it to us. But of course, cosmic justice is imaginary and what will grant us victory is hard work.

>>7701
Whatever you say. I've made my points.

>>7718
>Prepare for a long struggle which we will not live to see the end of, and maybe we will get surprised.
Thinking about it long and hard, I've come to the conclusion this is a ruinous mindset. Making peace with the possibility that you will die before the great revolution is over? That's fine, this is war and not everyone comes back home alive in war. But thinking about it in such long-range, abstract, nebulous terms is detrimental because it instills a sense of complacency, which is the greatest obstacle in our struggle outside of kikes and traitors. Time is the one thing we don't have.

Every year our people are less abundant, weaker, dumber, more deracinated, more dispossessed, more individualist. The enemy grows more entrenched irrespective of the crumbling infrastructure in our societies. We can't afford to think about it as a gradual change of some sort, it's a trap that leads us to a dead end. This is a fight for our very survival as a race, a fight for our very souls. We don't get a second chance if we fuck up. And the longer we take, the higher the chances for someone to fuck up, to give up, to falter in their convictions and make "deals" with the enemy. That last one is the worst, because the second ANYONE on our side starts thinking about compromise, the kikes have won. We're not going to be young and fit forever.

See, a big reason boomers are so selfish and apathetic is that they already got theirs, so they don't see a reason to lift a finger for the sake of bettering their environment. Even if a boomer is going through a rough spot, even if he can see the myriad problems gnawing at the foundations of society, his first priority will be to keep what he has and "make the best of it", rather than effect risky, dangerous, grand sweeping change. The older one gets, the more alluring the siren song of complacency. Thus the older we get, the more likely that some in our ranks will abandon the fight out of fatigue, or waver in their convictions and simply try to "make the best of it" of living in the System's clutches. Old farts are useless for this purpose. Revolution is a young man's game.

This mindset is also a disservice to the generations that will come after us, dumping the work of finishing the job for us on them not unlike the hated baby boomers. How exactly can we claim to fight for the future of our coming generations if we don't leave them a better world than the one we departed from? How can we claim to fight for them when it's them who will have to actually get it done?

No. I reject those premises wholesale. This gets done now, in one generation. Ours is the LAST generation that will have to suffer the kikes. When the next generation is born, they will be born in a judenfrei world, a better world, a cleaner world, a healthier, more beautiful world. THIS is to be our ideal. Even if we fail to make that deadline, we should put ALL our energy in bringing it about.

>>7719
I disagree. Firstly, I again reference Lenin. The communists played the long game and they came out on top. 
Secondly, what is needed is violent revolution. Consider a charge-up weapon in a videogame. If you unleash it before you are ready, you will do no damage and be in a worse off position than you were before. The same is true IRL.
We are extraordinarily weak right now. If we engaged in violence today, our field numbers would be in the dozens at best. We would be destroyed, accomplish nothing, and those who did not join us in the attack would be in an even weaker position without us.
This is not complacency, this is basic math. 
Let's put ourselves in Hermann/Armenius' position again. He hailed from the Cherusci tribe. He likely could have rallied them behind him and led a revolt against Rome immediately. And they would have been crushed without achieving anything but killing Germans. Instead, he spent 1-2 years convincing other tribes to join him. 
Another, counter-example: In ~55 BC, the Gauls met at a sacred grove and decided to revolt against the Romans. Almost immediately, Ambiorix revolted, wiped out an entire Roman legion, and then besieged another.
Then, Caesar arrived and crushed him in battle, marched into his territory, and fucking killed all of them. The Eburones were destroyed forever.
Where the FUCK were the other tribes?
They didn't do anything because, idk if they were still preparing or they were chickenshit, but man do I wish I could go back in time and slap them all. They let Ambiorix hang out to dry.
Yet just a year later, hundreds of thousands of Gauls mobilized for a revolt that almost destroyed Julius Caesar. They almost won, but they were defeated at Alesia and the rebellion collapsed. Ambiorix was a capable commander and his forces were dedicated fighters. It's too bad that they were unable to help Vercingetorix because they were dead a year too early.
Would an extra tribe mobilizing have tipped the balance? No one can say but Caesar came so close to defeat at Alesia that I am certain that an extra 9,000 men would have defeated him. 

The point here is that sometimes it is better to get all your ducks in a row before you go off half cocked. What if the Gauls had revolted one at a time like Ambiorix? They'd be crushed easily and no one would ever have heard of Vercingetorix. 
As you yourself wrote:
>We don't get a second chance if we fuck up.
We are not ready to revolt. This is not cowardice to point out, it is a simple, observable fact. Our task in life is to 
1. Figure out how to make revolt feasible
2. Make it so

I think about insurgent struggles of the past a lot and the one which is most similar to the war we would be engaging in is the Troubles. An ethno-conflict for racial survival against a democratic police state. Even with their enviable demographics (at the time), they failed to achieve independence, yet did defeat the state. If we extrapolate the numbers for an America sized population, we should expect to suffer between 16,560 and 97,600 casualties (over 30 years) and still have enough numbers to be able to fight. (the IRA lost as battlefield casualties 0.5% of the total population of Irish in Northern Ireland. If we include the total Irish population on the island, we get 0.0092% of the total Irish population lost in the war. Extrapolate this to the total White population in America and the sheer scale of what we might suffer in battlefield casualties is apparent.)
Are we prepared to sustain this? Nope. We could not even field 16,000 people in an organized fashion and if we did, half of them would call the other half feds. 

I am 100% with you on the desire for immediate results. I am not happy with the current demographic trends. And I am 100% with you on your admirable initiative. However, we cannot afford to become romantic about revolution or we will fail and achieve less than nothing. Furthermore, there is reason to be hopeful as well as angry: It is impossible to measure, but it seems apparent that White youth are moving in a positive direction. Pro-White memes are extremely prevalent online. While that alone is meaningless, it is indicative that a substantial percentage of White youth are at least capable of thinking racially. That's the first step in climbing Mt Everest. 
But this is not enough. 

Let's say that someone did it.
What would he accomplish? Well, assuming he even achieved his goal without fucking up and lived to do it again, he might be able to knock out power to, idk, San Jose for a couple days. Maybe 2 weeks if he kept at it. But eventually, if he was doing it multiple times a week, he would be caught. What would his enormous sacrifice achieve?
Well, some rich scum would lose several hundred million dollars in profits, all together. Maybe a billion. But they will not change their behavior once the hero is captured. 
There might be copy-cats. Expect them to be embarrassingly incompetent and impulsively do it without thinking. Certainly, pro-White organizations would not be able to exploit said man's sacrifice because such organizations do not really exist. There are a few such organizations but they are still in their growing phases and cannot hope to act violently. Ironically, the System might just use such a doing as an excuse to shut them down. Which, maybe this would be beneficial. But wouldn't it have been better to force them to shut down a large organization of thousands rather than 400 guys?
So nothing would actually result from such a sacrifice. What we need now is men willing to forego glory and instead work on getting these 400 guy organizations into self sustaining ones that cannot be shut down without consequences. THEN and only then does accelerationism in the way you describe make sense.

>>7718
>>7720
Lenin? He had already done the hardest part with the coup. Perhaps he was worried about the White Russian resistance but it was misorganized and abandoned instead of pushing harder.
By the time they were in power it appears a large portion of the people and the army were behind the communists, so the game needn't be long as long as they could keep the power they took by force and increase it.
What we are seeing today is a gradual increase of the chaotic conditions that gave way to 1917, but these were partially amplified by the Russian government itself that thought it could be a good thing to reinforce and thus control the rebels, but it got lost in its paranoia and failed to keep track of who was doing what. Germany also poured fuel on that fire, one of the dumbest and vilest moves in history because nothing should warrant throwing a whole nation under the communist bus. It's even more despicable knowing that it came from an aristocratic group.
I am not sure that the first nation to kick the bucket and begin its own civil war will benefit from external help much, so her own Whites will have to find a way to gather inner resources on their own.

>>7719
The other anon's position sounded like calling for an inversion of the boiling temperature when what needs to be done is to kick the pot altogether and spill all the water on the floor.
>How exactly can we claim to fight for the future of our coming generations if we don't leave them a better world than the one we departed from? How can we claim to fight for them when it's them who will have to actually get it done?
I think it's called preparation. We are not even there yet so it's totally premature to speak of combat.
But I agree that our generation should be the last to see this horrible world. This however is nothing more than a wish because we simply do not know how long it will take to conquer our lands again and it could be very very long, but it has to start soon and it needs to be violent, not to start around 2040 or whatever.

>>7720
>Ambiorix
The bad harvest hardly gave them enough resources to sustain a prolonged war or even waste time deciding what to do when the Romans were depleting them. That put some pressure on him. The victory, temporary as it was, had in no small part its reason in the suddenness of the revolt.
>the other tribes, where?
Too buys drinking Roman wine for sure.
Even Vercingetorix struggled to get enough of them under his tutelage, which isn't without irony regarding our Arminius friend since the Arverni's father was killed by people who held against him the exact same gripe, that of trying to unite all of Gaul. It is worth noting that as far as the siege of Alesia is concerned, a very large contingent of Celtic forces came, but with no sound plan and no idea of how to assault the double-edged Roman enclosure around Alesia, they gave up after a while, when they had so many men that they could have defeated the Romans at their own game by establishing a series of temporary fortifications and choke points too to slowly but surely drive the Romans into a situation of attrition that would have them defeated, even if it would have come at the likely cost of losing the hungry people stuck in Alesia.
The tragedy here is that there definitely was potential to unite Gauls in a more efficient way and Ambiorix's forces would have been a great addition to those of Vercingetorix.
If you want to mirror that with the United States, White men have more than enough firepower to get to a similar situation. We are just lacking the proper leaders and hopefully they will be smart enough to get the conservatives in, them who are so content to sit on the fence despite knowing how deplorable the situation is.
Brought to Europe, the situation is quite different. In too many countries the people are not used to handing heavy weapons, they're in desperate need of training on top of a need of radicalization, which will only come as a reaction to the increase of the oppression, the injustice and the rapes and murders.
In all cases, networks, resources, preparedness and numbers will be the key to victory.
Looking at the number aspect of the issue, we may speculate that based on the voting trends, a large portion of the populations are eager to support a harder right wing party. The White leftists, the milquetoast mid-voters and the migrants are those who essentially fill the ranks of anything else. Only the antifas, the extreme leftists and the invaders will engage in armed conflict together against the White Armies of Reclamation.

The worst news would be that as a country would desperately attempt to rise, something like NATO troops would be sent as reinforcements to help the local ZOG forces. This would be a repeat of the Roman cases. We could only hope then that the others countries would understand that a global  cohesion is the only way to achieve victory. Here, by using the imperial language of the day, English, we would face not the need to convince other tribes or even whole regions, but convince entire foreign nations to join us which would prevent ZOG forces from lifting reserves that would leave other areas unprotected for too long.

>>7721
>He had already done the hardest part with the coup
I was referencing a quote from him way before the coup. He once quipped in Switzerland that he will never see the revolution. A few years later, he was on a train to Finland to lead it.
It's a hopeful quote since we could very well see it but only if we're prepared for it.

>ermany also poured fuel on that fire, one of the dumbest and vilest moves in history because nothing should warrant throwing a whole nation under the communist bus
Meh, there's no way they could possibly have known that their gambit would actually "succeed" so well. I get the anger but war is war and the Entente was pathologically insane and would not accept peace. Unconventional times call for unconventional measures.
>It's even more despicable knowing that it came from an aristocratic group.
It's a tangent, but I do not understand the infatuation with aristocrats. The German ones were better than most yet they were still a bunch of selfish liberals. German peasants were better people than their rulers.

>I am not sure that the first nation to kick the bucket and begin its own civil war will benefit from external help much
This is another concern. This is actually why I would prefer the Revolution to begin in America (& succeed, obviously) so we get our hands on nukes. If, say, Sweden (lol) became the first nation to overthrow the jews, they'd get dogpiled from all sides. Even France is not ideal due to their small arsenal. It has to be the USA... or, I guess Russia but... that'd be awkward. 

>>7722
True but he still jumped the gun and got no support from his countrymen. Such a waste of men. Ugh.
Makes me angry. It also makes me nervous. 
My second greatest fear is that we do revolt and then get crushed.
My first is that we revolt and then turn on each other.. and then get crushed.

I agree with your analysis, it would have made more strategic sense to besiege the Romans besieging Alesia. But we must also consider logistics. Were the Gauls able to feed themselves? I have no idea. Maybe they could and this was just Celtic disorder. But I also suspect that the Romans scorched the earth around their fortifications, preventing the Celts from resupplying from the land. Remember, the Belgae once summoned an army (>>allegedly<<) 200,000 strong to fight 20,000 Romans and had to give up when Caesar refused to fight them because THEY ran out of food.
But yes, it is seriously tough to manage so many people. Radicals tend to prevail the more people are involved. That's democracy for you. 

>>7723
Let's just promise to take reasonable action if one of our nations succeeds. If White rebels take power somewhere, that is the time to throw everything into helping them. Either helping them directly or indirectly by attacking the system at home.

>>7727
>>7722
Upon further consideration, they could have just imported food from elsewhere because they were in friendly territory. So either hot-heads prevailed because they were worried about food stocks in Alesia, or they just got stumped by Caesar's fortifications and attacked on impulse. Or perhaps, they figured that 300,000 men should overcome 70,000. 

It was autumn so they should have had plenty of food. They should not have attacked.

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>>7727
Regarding Lenin, I really wonder how much was due to luck or to a network of you know who that prepared the way, strongly suggesting that kind of special revolutionary agent to Russia while there already were people there creating the conditions of an uprising by attacking the economy, which is quite a repeat of France. A single guy could do nothing without an already active force ready to support him. There is just no logic to the idea that Germany would even believe, as ridiculous as it sounds, that secretly shipping one single man to Russia would change everything. I can understand Germany wanting to weaken Russia and perhaps going as far as thinking that after looking at what communists were doing in Germany with the strikes and all the other subversive acts that harmed the country's military might, it would be tempting to throw this same poison at the Russians and see how they'd fare with it. But not just with one man. The German authority must have been given guarantees that there were people ready to prop up Lenin once he'd be stationed in either Moscow or St. Petersburg. Obviously the same people must be behind the earlier well organized revolt of 1905 which was part of an international process to destroy all lasting forms of monarchy, regardless of the status of peasants. Emancipation of the serfs was just a way to transform these workers into industrial cogs to increase the wealth of a new rising group of sellers. Their living and working conditions simply didn't improve at all but and in fact worsened, although they were promised to make more money. Every time, in the wake of these bloody revolutions you find the Jews, the usual wailing victims of some form of abysmal injustice, being emancipated and gaining further rights, thus allowing them to slowly encroach on the political power which has always been their true goal, always using the disgruntled masses as a shield, a veil and as temporary allies. The heightened focus on Lenin does miss out the larger entity that had lodged itself in Russia. If anything, a deeper look into why the Black Hundreds seemed to fail to achieve anything of value beyond suppression of targets should be urgently considered. Tsarist apologists and possibly unconvincing on theirs policy of economic, they appeared to be a minor annoyance against the tidal Marxist forces that spread all over the empire.

>>7747
Lenin spent over a decade building a revolutionary party with chapters all around Russia, this party the bolsheviks and militia units secretly organized that eventually stormed the winter palace. Before this they organized local "soviets" which were councils of people who supported his movement that eroded Tzarist power in the cities by providing an alternative local government. Both the militias and soviets were key ingredients to the Bolshevik revolution. Without the two working smoothly and being a part of the larger bolshevik party, Lenin would have failed. Lenin ran these groups from exile so that he didn't risk running into the Tzarist authorities. If we were to follow his example and create a vanguard party TODAY, it would still be at least two decades before a WN revolution.

>>7753
You can't build such a huge network on your own, even less when working remotely. He only was the tip of the iceberg.

>>7747
Did jews do it? Absolutely. It's complex but while Lenin was writing articles in Switzerland, jews and communists were working to eat away at the legitimacy of the Tsar.
Revolution is never spontaneous. It is the culmination of decades of work. This is why I advise caution even though I am fuming with rage every day. We simply are not ready. We are not ready to fight, we are not ready to replace the regime, the people are not ready to support us, the system is too strong, etc.

>Every time, in the wake of these bloody revolutions you find the Jews,
90% of the first Soviet were jews. Look it up.
Jews were 43% of apprentice lawyers, 35% of the mercantile class. In Kiev in they were 37% of managers.
This despite being just 1% of the population (we're subtracting the population of Poland from the mix because they were occupied by Germany by 1917)
The communist revolution did not "emancipate" the jews. It gave them unbridled power over an innocent population.

>>7753
>Before this they organized local "soviets" which were councils of people who supported his movement that eroded Tzarist power in the cities by providing an alternative local government. Both the militias and soviets were key ingredients to the Bolshevik revolution. 
THESE, right here, are the two sentences which we must study and remind ourselves every day.
The enemy created an alternative to the government... and these played a key role in his successful revolution.

I'm not a Tsarist simp, btw. What I'm interested in is how the enemy created a revolutionary environment and how he ultimately took over. Technically, the bolsheviks overthrew a democracy, albeit a very weak one. But this makes their actions all the more relevant to us.

>>7757
And yet "readiness" seems an impossible task for us when we don't even have any operatives in play or very many organizations existing. The few orgs that do exist are constantly pinned down.

It's easy to propose a slow build up in theory, but how does it work when we have no right to association, no right to free speech, no right to self defense, and a network of surveillance goyphones and cameras enforcing the anti-white laws at all times?

>>7759
>we don't even have any operatives in play or very many organizations existing. The few orgs that do exist are constantly pinned down.
I know... I know. 
Believe me, I know. No one said that this was going to be easy. If you were the jews, would you make it easy? They know that when we win, we're going to kill them all.

>we have no right to association, no right to free speech, no right to self defense, and a network of surveillance goyphones and cameras enforcing the anti-white laws at all times?
The same was true for the bolsheviks. And for the Irish. In some ways they had it worse than us, in other ways, we have it worse than them. The point is that we're an existential threat to the regime and frankly, it's a miracle that they haven't made it legal to just shoot us on the spot yet.
For now, we must work within the law to make it possible for bigger things in the future.
We are not ready to go full IRA yet.

>>7760
>For now, we must work within the law
That "law" is a noose which tightens each and every day. In the UK you get arrested for publicly disliking shitskin rapists. In Australia, within the fucking week a law will be unanimously passed in parliament to make "hate speech" - including Roman salutes - punishable by 2 YEARS in prison. 
The US is soon to be behind them, with Orange kike pushing full dismantling of the constitution, already multiple EOs targeting "anti-semites" and filling the courts and cabinet with jews once again.

We have fewer than 5 years. If a serious movement, underground or not, is not realized within 5 years in the continental United States, the White race is done. You can cope about the other White majority countries but they mean shit when the US can subdue them militarily in the case of an awakening. Every single stronghold of Whites, physical and ideological, has fallen. It's now or never. We have 5 years.

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>>7754
>You can't build such a huge network on your own, 
No, Lenin was the leader of the Bolsheviks, but their were lots of people who join the Bolsheviks and created their party. Before the party was formed communists in Russia formed informal social networks which acted as a backbone of manpower for the creation of the Bolshevik party. 
>>7757
>This is why I advise caution even though I am fuming with rage every day. We simply are not ready. We are not ready to fight, we are not ready to replace the regime, the people are not ready to support us, the system is too strong, etc.
We haven't created the irl informal networks that are needed to serve as a backbone of a National Socialsit party. In Germany their were tons of informal networks that were instrumental for creating the NSDAP. This is what we need to focus on before moving to the next step. 
>>7759
We have to start by creating informal irl networks. Try to meet up with other anons. Their is a risk of fed infiltration, but their is no other way so we just have to "bite" that "bullit." We can't let our fear prevent us from taking calculated risks. 
>It's easy to propose a slow build up in theory, but how does it work when we have no right to association, no right to free speech, no right to self defense, and a network of surveillance goyphones and cameras enforcing the anti-white laws at all times?
You meet and vet people irl, then if you're pretty certain they are "safe" you have secret meetings and slowly grow your network. Different networks after growing can start to "communicate" with each other but remain separate orgs to prevent compromised networks from infiltrating others. As these networks grow and you are to big for a few infiltrators to destroy you start centralizing the networks into an official vanguard party. 
>If a serious movement, underground or not, is not realized within 5 years in the continental United States
I hate to say it but you can't rush this, its a slow process and their is no easy way out. But the truth is we have more time on our hands then we think. Even if America becomes minority White, Whites will still be the super majority in the rural areas between brown cities. If we get an insurgency going in the White areas we can either negotiate or siege out the brown cities. Also as America gets less White, ZOG is paradoxically weakened as they will have less smart White functionaries, and in a majority brown America, smart Whites will be more willing to side with us, and less willing to work for ZOG. In fact America's diversity has already weakened it on the world stage. You see it with Russia winning in Ukraine and Israel loosing in Gaza. ZOG's power is on the decline, someone will topple them eventually, but if we don't get our act together in the coming decades, the people who replace ZOG won't be us.
>You can cope about the other White majority countries but they mean shit when the US can subdue them militarily in the case of an awakening. 
If America is less than 50% White, and they try to still control Europe, then Russia will defeat America in a great power war. Modern Russia is not an ethnostate, but its still majority White and based on current trends, will be so in 2100. I don't think a majority brown America could beat Russia in a war.

>>7760
the IRA are nothing but drug dealers

>>7761
>We have fewer than 5 years. If a serious movement, underground or not, is not realized within 5 years in the continental United States, the White race is done
Challenge accepted (not like I have a choice)
Even if it were hopeless, I would accept my task without complaint because it is right to resist evil, no matter the cost.

>>7767
>This is what we need to focus on before moving to the next step.
It shall be done. That is my quest.
Also, I agree with you that we're not done in 5 years. Even if Whites become a minority in the US, we can still fight and win. Even if that means seceding from a shitskin country with only a small territory. That is still an upgrade.

>>7768
sigh, this again
Okay, anon. Well, those drug dealers forced a democratic police state to the negotiating table. If they can do it, maybe we can too. Let's learn from the drug dealers.

>>7770
>Even if that means seceding from a shitskin country with only a small territory. That is still an upgrade.
It would also ensure freedom for Europe, and Europe is more important for Whites to hold than America.

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>>7767
>We haven't created the irl informal networks that are needed to serve as a backbone of a National Socialsit party. In Germany their were tons of informal networks that were instrumental for creating the NSDAP. This is what we need to focus on before moving to the next step. 
These groups were not even a network per se, just a constellation of shared and opposed views that on the average put them on the right or far right of the political spectrum. Then there were one or two of these groups that mattered much more, and it all went up rather fast all things considered.
If you look at our respective nations we already are in such a situation with tons of groups and cells more or less united on a set of similar ideas or beliefs but what is always lacking is the one engine that drags them all in one direction.

>>7811
>If you look at our respective nations we already are in such a situation with tons of groups and cells more or less united on a set of similar ideas or beliefs but what is always lacking is the one engine that drags them all in one direction.
The age-old question: who iwll bell the cat?

>>7814
*will, rather

>>7759
>It's easy to propose a slow build up in theory, but how does it work when we have no right to association, no right to free speech, no right to self defense, and a network of surveillance goyphones and cameras enforcing the anti-white laws at all times?
You rely on S.M.A.R.T.

>>7770
>It shall be done. That is my quest.
>Also, I agree with you that we're not done in 5 years. Even if Whites become a minority in the US, we can still fight and win. Even if that means seceding from a shitskin country with only a small territory. That is still an upgrade.
Once the new e-currencies are online and running, the debts will be gone for the most part after a most generous world Jubilee, then they'll be again able to run the printers at full speed again except now it will all be electronic and the shekelizer will go biiiiip.
Which means they will easily have a hundred years of potential unstoppable inflation and debt increase to once again pull the same shit with UBI soldiers who will be more than glad to submerge our miserable and isolated hideouts, because picking apemen from Africa or Florida and giving them M16s with the promise of a cornucopia of chicken will do wonders while the drones and sats fly high above our heads.
The Jews will throw everything they have and more to exterminate the last free Whites now that they are perhaps a decade away from being able to do it unimpeded in some major countries and pull a Gaza on us if our ideas don't manage to make it into the White populations at large to the point that shooting Whites ala Weaver or Wacko will have a Gapon effect and backfire on them. So we need to hurry up.

>>7770
>Okay, anon. Well, those drug dealers forced a democratic police state to the negotiating table. If they can do it, maybe we can too. Let's learn from the drug dealers.
The PIRA did, IIRC.

>>7811
>Socialsit
Is technically what most people on our side do.
>app name btw

>>7816
>S.M.A.R.T.
The term is unfamiliar to me.

>Second paragraph
Yeah, this. No matter how much I would like to believe that we have more time, The jews control basically everything and have multiple avenues to ruin Whites within the decade. They can run the same playbook they have in recent years:
two-tier policing where the shitniggers can kill whites with minimal sentences combined with cracking down hard on "hate speech" by Whites who want a homeland. Oh, and more immigration of course.
It worked in the UK - there is almost no real action being taken there. If you add in the Great Reset, now they are additionally appealing to cowardice and consumerism, which are a rampant weakness among our people.

There will either be a meteoric rise or total ruin, I can see no other way unless a fucking comet strikes Earth.

>>7819
>Specific
>Measurable
>Assignable
>Realistic
>Time-related

>>7816
I'm doing my best. I'm one guy, atm.

>>7817
They did. I use the term synonymously for brevity sake. Once someone didn't know what PIRA was so I've gotten into the habit of just calling everything IRA so I don't need to explain it.
But yes, it was PIRA, the Provos.
The original IRA is dead so they're not drug dealers either.

>>7811
>If you look at our respective nations we already are in such a situation with tons of groups and cells more or less united on a set of similar ideas or beliefs but what is always lacking is the one engine that drags them all in one direction.
Their is still more work to be done. The sad truth is for most WNs, their politics in online only and they don't know other WNs irl. This needs to change if we will accomplish anything.

Lolberts are completely worthless, spineless pieces of shit. They're loudmouthed idiots who shout day and night they will resist government tyranny and overreach with violence if pushed to it. We've all seen they have failed to resist in any meaningful way for the last several decades even as the government got more and more tyrannical sometimes to the point of absurdity. The best example of this of course being the Covid years. Not only did they chicken out of doing anything at all besides complaining online, they unmasked themselves as weaklings and cowards with the pathetic excuses they've made for not resisting, even as police were beating and jailing children and elderly people for breaking quarantine. Some even outright admitted that they didn't want to lose their jobs or egt arrested, effectively admitting they're too cowardly to ever put their money where their mouth is, because in the end all they care about is their own wallets and creature comforts. They showed the entire world they will never stand up for themselves, let alone their kinsmen. And let's not even get started on their endless clucking about hunting down pedophiles when not a single of their number has lifted a finger to bring lethal justice on the heads of rapist shitskins and their enablers in the government. Simply put, they're utterly worthless in every capacity.

Where am I going with this? Simple, at least in the USA there's plenty of lolberts who have an extensive collection of weapons (that they'll never ever use but keep reading). Many of them are quite well-to-do, because lolbergism is an upper middle class man's ideology. This means they have quite a lot of material resources at their disposal. Not just money or guns but also food (if they're preppers), vehicles, electronic appliances. Therefore, seeing as how they will never raise a hand against the System or move a finger to defend their kinsmen, they should be killed and their resources appropriated by WNs. That way those guns, vehicles, money, etc. will be put to actual use in overthrowing the System slowly killing our people rather than let it go to waste in frivolous individualistic pursuits.

It should also send a message at the same time: that nobody gets to be neutral in this fight. Lolberts think if they retreat to their homes and roll the shutters down they'll get to ride out the storm, maybe benefit themselves by selling their surplus goods at outrageous prices (look it up, most lolberts also approve of price gouging). By killing lolberts their illusions of neutrality are shattered, and they'll be forced to choose between continuing to while away in their selfish stupor while the System chokes them out, die at our hands for being traitors to their kinsmen by inaction, or taking up arms for a cause and being worth a damn for once in their lives. On that note, should they approach WN organizations to sign up they should be screened and trained away from regular recruits and kept on a short leash for a long time, because chances are these selfish weasels are just joining up to save their own skins, the only thing they ever valued. Unless they prove to be exceptional, unless they show they've turned a new leaf, use them as grunts and keep them the hell away from any leadership positions. You really don't want a Mike Powell type running a cell, you don't want him subverting the Organization from within or worse, turning informant in exchange for police protection.

>>7937
>they should be killed and their resources appropriated by WNs
Can we be realistic here?
If "we" initiated the struggle by slaughtering our own race, that would destroy our movement forever. The way you begin a conflict sets the tone for the rest of the struggle. Opening with an anti-White action will destroy any moral authority such rebels could claim.
>It should also send a message at the same time: that nobody gets to be neutral in this fight.
Yeah and everyone would take the side against us. Systemites already would support the System killing us and if we showcase ourselves as looters who target random old people who never harmed us, literally no one will take our side.
This is a terrible idea.

I get your position, believe me I would like all selfish talkers to be machinegunned into a pit. But I am more concerned with victory than petty revenge.
Think about this strategically, in the long term, and you will see that this is the better way.

>>7940
>If "we" initiated the struggle by slaughtering our own race, that would destroy our movement forever. The way you begin a conflict sets the tone for the rest of the struggle. Opening with an anti-White action will destroy any moral authority such rebels could claim.
It is not Anti-white to kill those who are now and will continue betraying our race in favor of either their own comfort or to stick to principles based upon false premises. Contrary to your point there would be no moral authority to any such movement if they left such Whites alone or worse allied with them.
>Yeah and everyone would take the side against us. Systemites already would support the System killing us and if we showcase ourselves as looters who target random old people who never harmed us, literally no one will take our side.
This is a terrible idea.
No, free resources is free resources, and there are many ways to take them without revealing who did it, and many to obfuscate who did it, and by the time we can just openly take them there would be no International media or national media to use against us that would make those "unaware" turn against us.

>>7940
>realistic 
Please stop using that word. At this point it's just an excuse for inaction and apathy. It's the coward's battlecry.

>If "we" initiated the struggle by slaughtering our own race
Gonna stop you right there. Traitors are not kinsmen. Shabbos goyim deserve to die just as much as the kikes and niggers, and most lolberts are pro-Israel. 

>The way you begin a conflict sets the tone for the rest of the struggle. Opening with an anti-White action will destroy any moral authority such rebels could claim.
Where was it said direct action would begin with lolberts as a target? It's irrelevant anyway.

>if we showcase ourselves as looters who target random old people who never harmed us
We'd be targeting selfish boomers and other scum that sold their own for an illusion of personal profit and security, "never harmed us" my ass. And again, the average lolbert is pro-Israel. It's not hard to make it clear why this or that person was targeted, assuming their killings wouldn't just be made to look like a robbery gone wrong. Like >>7962 said, there's many ways to skin that cat.

>petty revenge
It's pretty telling that you use these specific words. There is nothing petty about executing traitors, let alone those who betrayed our race. Remember that lolberts have no principles whatsoever. As cowardly and selfish as they are, as much as they cluck about bucking the System and being their own men, the truth is that they depend upon the System's prosperity and they know it. Unlikely though it may be, it's not 100% out of the question that they might form their own squads to hunt down "terrorists" (read: us) when the System points its finger at us, or even outright enlist with the System's forces as mercenaries or what have you. Better nip that in the bud and impress upon them no action against us will be tolerated.

>>7962
>by the time we can just openly take them there would be no International media or national media to use against us that would make those "unaware" turn against us.
I'd argue that the media is irrelevant. Optics is not a matter of appeasement but force. Doesn't matter what the media says about us when White neighbors know we're the only ones protecting them from shitskin looters, for example. Doesn't matter how juicy of a reward the System offers for information on our members if they know what happens to snitches.

>>7937
>>7966
Sounds like a whole lotta roleplay when we haven't fired a single shot at ZOG in anger yet.

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It feels like thirty years into the future, we will still be bickering about what should have been done and how we can course correct stuff, while trying to manage our prostate issues.

>>7962
Libertarians are largely useless. But to initiate a conflict against the jews by killing our own race is idiotic. At least libertarians are not actively supporting White genocide.
You say that this will knock people off the fence. Yes. But none of them will join us. So what would this accomplish other than give a few of us a cathartic feeling? This is foolishness. The priority of targets is, and I am not legally advising anything, this is all just hypothesis: 
>1) Anti-White politicians, businessmen, and anyone involved in the police state, the legal system, or journalism
>2) Underlings and systemites. NGOs, uncompromising managerial class members, key personnel who make the system function, Leftist operatives and bootlickers
>3) Ironically, moderate non-Whites who confuse naive White people. 
>4) Non-Whites

The libertarians sitting in their homes are not only irrelevant to the struggle, but literally old and dying. There is absolutely nothing to be gained from killing them except taking a bunch of weapons that are actually useless. Also, why the fuck should WE be the ones "confiscating the guns?"
The system already wants to do it and it will piss them off. Why the fuck would we do the system's dirty work AND piss off our own race? Makes zero sense.

>there are many ways to take them without revealing who did it
This is so overwhelmingly naive. No one will be fooled. The media will already be pushing false flags of us attacking White children. Why the fuck would we give them real material?

This whole thing is backwards. This is the mentality that leads otherwise decent White men who know how the system works to waste their lives attacking a walmart.

You're thinking like a terrorist rather than an insurgent or a rebel. I will tell you exactly what would come of such a policy. "We" would become a universally reviled terrorist "group." I put group in quotes because calling a band of disconnected terrorists a group is overselling them. Such a "movement," with zero support from the population it ostensibly is fighting for, would just die. Indeed, everyone will point out that these "White nationalists" are just targeting White people trying to be left alone by the system. What a pointless waste of resources and for what? Guns? Guns are not nearly as useful for insurgents as fertilizer. Hell, the system, upon seeing this group acting so stupidly, wouldn't even need to ban guns. They'd just let them terrorize the aging boomertards into submission.
Then, once said group had absolutely zero support, they'd round them up and shoot them. Or, maybe the System would let them persist as a powerless boogieman.

>>7966
>Please stop using that word
If we're not realistic, we're just playing on the internet.

>Traitors are not kinsmen.
If we extend traitor to mean literally everyone not a White nationalist, then we're basically also at war with our race and our cause is hopeless. What are we even fighting for if our own people are not our misguided kinsmen?

>Where was it said direct action would begin with lolberts as a target?
If this is not an opening move (to seize their weapons was stated as the goal) why would we need weapons? Either a viable insurgent group would exist and the smallarms lolberts hoard would be low value tools compared with AA weapons, explosives, and drones. Furthermore, again, being realistic, by the time the system is weak enough and we are strong enough to even resist in the first place, boomers will be dead and their guns already confiscated by the regime. So what is the point of any of this?

>assuming their killings wouldn't just be made to look like a robbery gone wrong.
That's the other issue. This is robbery. 
If we're not fighting for the White race as a whole, what or who are we fighting for? Are we really just a small clique of reviled people who just want power so we can become rich?
And again, targeting dying boomers is a pointless act since any rebel group worth its salt would already be armed. What this is, made obvious by the original post and yours, is primarily driven by a revenge fantasy. 
>There is nothing petty about executing traitors, let alone those who betrayed our race.
There is when the executions serve no purpose or are counter-productive.
The purpose of executions, of terror, is to achieve goals. 
If done in the initial stages of an "uprising," the uprising would fail utterly because you'd reveal yourself as dangerous thieves and terrorists uninterested in fighting the system and more interested in guns and killing. You'd get zero support from your own people and all drown in our own blood.
If done randomly after establishing ourselves as a rebel force, the same thing would happen. It would be a pointless waste of good will and instantly turn all remaining White people against us.
If done AFTER we won, what would that achieve? Boomers would probably be long dead by then anyway but if they were not, going around slaughtering old people is among the worst possible things you could do. We already will have a tough time justifying killing nigger children. But if we reveal ourselves to want to slaughter most of our own race, that will prove the jews correct and, you know, also turn most White nationalists against you. Most of us are not "signed up" to kill our own people. Were you called to answer for your actions, they would point out that you chose to carry out a war against nobodies with no power in a way that undermined our cause.

>>7971
This too.

>>7996
>Libertarians are largely useless. But to initiate a conflict against the jews by killing our own race is idiotic. At least libertarians are not actively supporting White genocide.
Libertarians are by and large Christians and therefore jews, they die no differently than jews in my book, and they are actively supporting white genocide, have you listened to how fucking stupid they are lately? However useless you might think they are, they don't oppose the government, they oppose it's "overreach", and they certainly oppose Statists like NS of any sort, whether you think so or not they are among our enemies. Worse still they are enemies, that too many who claim the label of National Socialist think are allies in some way, they are not allies and they are not lemmings who can be left alone behind us. Even if they won't fight directly at first, they will fight against us in any way they can, including directly, if we do so much as put a toe where they don't like it.
>Yes. But none of them will join us
I don't know where I said anything about fences, but I wouldn't be killing these libertacucks to make the survivors join us, I'd be doing it to spare myself the trouble of rooting them out of my forces later, and preventing them from betraying my forces to other enemies.
>>1) Anti-White politicians, businessmen, and anyone involved in the police state, the legal system, or journalism
>>2) Underlings and systemites. NGOs, uncompromising managerial class members, key personnel who make the system function, Leftist operatives and bootlickers
>>3) Ironically, moderate non-Whites who confuse naive White people. 
>>4) Non-Whites
Cute list, but I have long agreed with only one thing Codreanu said, "If I had but one bullet and were faced by both an enemy and a traitor, I would let the traitor have it." This is the only correct attitude to have about this issue. We will gridlock and face too much internal turmoil if we have to keep unfucking the actions of traitors within our forces. Even if to do so we must let an enemy go, to clean up and eliminate traitors, it is always wise to do so before the traitor can cause greater damage than the enemy ever could.
So will you kill the traitors or will you let the traitors kill thousands more because he only cares about himself, or money, or comfort?
>The libertarians sitting in their homes are not only irrelevant to the struggle, but literally old and dying. 
Nigger, that's not true, and you know it. sure a good portion are old and soon to be dead, but many others aren't and even if they are the old and useless variety they usually have sons who will get what they have when they die.
>There is absolutely nothing to be gained from killing them except taking a bunch of weapons that are actually useless. Also, why the fuck should WE be the ones "confiscating the guns?"
Most guns these preppers and shit have are not useless by a wide margin, and if we don't take them somebody else will, who would you rather have those guns? and no there isn't an option to let ten thousand guns just sit there in one mans or even one families hands, we can worry about gun laws later(there shouldn't be any).
Why are you worried about what people think? If we have more firepower than they do what they think DOESN'T FUCKING MATTER! what's with the optics cuckery?
>This is so overwhelmingly naive. No one will be fooled. The media will already be pushing false flags of us attacking White children. Why the fuck would we give them real material?
If they're already going to fake it, why would we not do as we need to do to survive and win are you just fucking stupid? if I have to kill the kids of some white traitors, I will and there's nobody who will stop me, or they'll get shot as a traitor too.
>This whole thing is backwards. This is the mentality that leads otherwise decent White men who know how the system works to waste their lives attacking a walmart.
No it isn't, that mentality is first and foremost the mentality of the lost, and the broken, those like Payton Gendron are not fanatical National Socialists, they're broken young men who see no future for themselves and so take the lives of those they view as having done this to them.
I am sick and tired of you whiny fucks trying to use those that this system has broken and turned into weapons without any guiding principles save their hatred for those inflicting the most direct pain upon them, as if the truth about how we must be as National Socialists made them do what they did. Newsflash motherfucker, it didn't, the few most recent shooters I've heard of weren't even Nazis, and more than half were radicalized fucking trannies or shitskins with no mention of anything remotely related to Nazis.
 You're fucking stupid if you think we can work with christniggers, libertarians, and conservacucks who would betray us the moment we revealed we hated their beloved niggers, their king jew, or YE(Blessed be our nigger savior).They are all our enemies and if killing them makes people hate me, so fucking be it, I'm not a National Socialist because I want to be liked, and neither was Hitler, I am a National Socialist because it is the truth, and it is WHO I AM.
>You're thinking like a terrorist rather than an insurgent or a rebel
A TERRORIST  IS AN INSURGENT IS A REBEL, what world are you in where you have this fantasy that our fight isn't a fight of terror against a system that has a monopoly on force and opposes everything we are, down to our very fucking DNA, if we do not use terrorist tactics to scare the weak into submission and make shit worse and harder to govern, so that the system might finally fucking die, we will die out as a race, there is no other option at present, unless you can tell me where I can find a million, no even just 50 thousand, fanatical National Socialist soldiers, with every bit of supplies and equipment that will be needed for the next ten years, right now! You can't? THEN TERRORISM IT IS.


>If we're not realistic, we're just playing on the internet.
He's pointing out that retards and cowards like you constantly use realistic to make excuses and fallaciously argue like you're doing now.
>If we extend traitor to mean literally everyone not a White nationalist, then we're basically also at war with our race and our cause is hopeless. What are we even fighting for if our own people are not our misguided kinsmen?
Whit Nationalists are not National Socialists, White Nationalists are idiots who support anything they perceive as being pro-white, whether it is or not in reality.  We are in a multi-generational civil war within our race you fucking moron, this cause isn't just about whether our government is run by us or not, it's also about fighting against those who look like us and yet fight for the plight of fucking savages they chose to uplift out of the pits of India Africa and fucking Asia, they're enemies as much as a jew is, except they unlike the jew chose to fight against the interests of our race. If that makes it hopeless then I will do my best to make sure a global nuclear war happens and that nothing is left on the surface of this planet except for the wind over the ruins of what once was.
>If this is not an opening move (to seize their weapons was stated as the goal) why would we need weapons?
Do you think we will somehow have access to the HUGE chain of logistics and resources needed to field a modern Army or do you somehow not realize that things won't be some kind of peaceful transition of power where we simply take over the government and reform it? because that's exactly how you're talking, and that's not what's going to happen, not even fucking remotely.
>Either a viable insurgent group would exist and the smallarms lolberts hoard would be low value tools compared with AA weapons, explosives, and drones. Furthermore, again, being realistic, by the time the system is weak enough and we are strong enough to even resist in the first place, boomers will be dead and their guns already confiscated by the regime. So what is the point of any of this?
whether this would be an opening move or not there will always be a use for taking supplies from others, I don't care if it's a perfectly pure white fantasy lolbert family(as if they didn't all have Asian fever), they're enemies, and if I can make better use of what they have I will kill them for it, it doesn't matter if that's now or fifteen years into the collapse.
>That's the other issue. This is robbery. 
No, this is war, both within and outside of our race, there will be rape, sexual assault, torture, mutilation, executions, Men will kill their fathers, mothers, uncles, aunts, brothers, sisters, nieces, nephews, and there will be a fuckload of what modern society condemns as "war crimes", this is not a fight where anybody is coming out as a squeaky clean faggot in beautiful dress uniforms, it will be bloody, it will be terrible, and we will all do horrible shit to survive and to thrive, in the hopes that we might spare our descendants from having to experience that, probably won't succeed, but better to try than just leave it to them.
>If we're not fighting for the White race as a whole, what or who are we fighting for? Are we really just a small clique of reviled people who just want power so we can become rich?
We were never fighting for the White race as a whole, we are fighting for the Aryan race, IE, what the White race should have already birthed, and if we take power what we will both be in this world again through our actions and be birthing into this world going forward, National Socialists fight for what we can be, the future of our race, we will do whatever is necessary, even killing 90% of what is considered White today ourselves, if needs must, to make that a reality,
>And again, targeting dying boomers is a pointless act since any rebel group worth its salt would already be armed. What this is, made obvious by the original post and yours, is primarily driven by a revenge fantasy. 
Do you think rebellions are short affairs and we will somehow never need to take what somebody else has in order to keep fighting? there has never been such a rebellion and never will be, we will have to take what the weak and cowardly can provide, by force or not. you are living in a fucking fantasy thinking we won't do anything "dishonorable" in order to win, fuck you and anyone who thinks like you, because you are the morons who will get other better men killed, because you can't see what is right in front of your face.
>There is when the executions serve no purpose or are counter-productive.
>The purpose of executions, of terror, is to achieve goals. 
There is a purpose to executing traitors, it is so that they neither spread their corruption nor are able to take any action against us that endangers our people, the goal is wiping clean our race of those who oppose it from within.
>If done in the initial stages of an "uprising," the uprising would fail utterly because you'd reveal yourself as dangerous thieves and terrorists uninterested in fighting the system and more interested in guns and killing. You'd get zero support from your own people and all drown in our own blood.
Have you never read a history book? Every successful rebellion ever finished with a fuckload of bloodshed, clearing out those who would oppose the new power structure, this has never not been the case. and it is a never-ending job to be clear, have the Taliban stopped killing people yet? NO!

>>7937
you are a fed

>>8011
>Libertarians are by and large Christians and therefore jews, they die no differently than jews in my book
We're killing all Christians now too?
Again, it seems like you'd like to kill 95% of our race.
What the hell are you even fighting for? The very reason you pronounce Libertarians inferior is that they don't stand up for their race. Yet here you are proclaiming your intent to wipe out most of our race.

>Why are you worried about what people think?
> If we have more firepower than they do what they think DOESN'T FUCKING MATTER!
This is so, so naive. I need to address this before I handle anything else. (I actually already started writing responses to individual paragraphs but deleted most of it for this)

Okay, so let's envision that you and, we'll be generous, 30 other men are engaging in an actual insurgency against the regime. I mean no disrespect, but I would wager money that you have never considered how these men would be organized and how you would subdivide them in a way that both guaranteed cell integrity in the event of an informant AND allowed actual communication between them so that they could function as a unit rather than several random groups of several men with no coherent strategy or goal. But let's ignore this.
Somehow, you have a group of wizards who communicate telepathically yet lose this ability upon capture.

So you start killing libertarians. What is the end goal? An revolutionary thinks in terms of X + Y = [regime-gets-overthrown-and-we-replace-it-with-ourselves]
Something about your writing style tells me you're absolutely one of those "let's shoot out electric transformers" types.
If not, I accept being wrong on that one.

So how does this plus killing random old White people with zero power (and taking their small-arms) lead to victory over the most despotic police state on earth?

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>>8020
>We're killing all Christians now too?
Yes. It's pretty fucking rich that you equate killing christkikes with kinslaying given that those cocksuckers are the very reason we're in such a sorry state in the first place. It ws christkikes who infected Roman society with the semitic death cult (remember that the first christkikes were indeed full-blooded kikes), it was christkikes who wormed their way into power and abolished Native European religions and cultures, it was them who forced everyone to worship the kike on a stick at sword point, it was christkikes who tortured Native European religious leaders to death, it was christkikes who desecrated holy sites, defaced statues, destroyed records of Native European folklore and smeared them as backwards savages and demon worshippers. They killed and tortured their own people by the millions and installed the eternal jew in power, destroyed so much of their own people's culture that to this day it's impossible to know just how much was lost, and forever installed a slave morality into the minds of the populace that has been poisoning our people to death generation after generation. There's millenia of blood debt still unpaid. 

Now, you might say modern christkikes "aren't that bad" or that they're pro-White. You would be telling a filthy fucking lie because if you asked any of those cockroaches what is most important to them between the future of their own people and worshipping the dead kike on a stick, they'll pick the latter every time. They'll call you satanic (a kike word, irony of ironies) for saying that one should prioritize one's own people instead of giving everything to kikes and niggers. Fuck's sake, what do you think "catholicism" means? It means a universal creed, it's literally the prototype for modern deracination and globohomo. They'll rush to kiss a nigger's feet but wish death and suffering on another White man for worshipping the dead kike in the wrong way, and that's without mentioning the murderous hateful vitriol they have for "pagans", i.e. those of us who uphold the ways and lore of our actual people instead of some scummy semitic conmen. None of this is an exaggeration, if you bring this up they will smugly sneer in your face for "worshipping your race" (like that's a bad thing or some shit) and hyuck-hyuck about how you supposedly fuck animals and eat your own shit. Most christkikes today are either against "antisemitism" or outright pro-Israel and will say they're the Chosen of G_d, when they aren't whining about muh holy land. Hell, some of them even wish for WW3 and global atomic warfare so the Chosen People can inherit the world. They're unsalvageable. They are race traitors plain and simple, even worse than miscenegators in fact on account of the sheer damage they've done to their own people.

>The very reason you pronounce Libertarians inferior is that they don't stand up for their race.
>Yet here you are proclaiming your intent to wipe out most of our race.
How convenient that you ignore the core point of anon's argument, which is the intent to kill TRAITORS AGAINST OUR RACE. Taking out fifth columns and shabbos goyim is ALWAYS a worthy pursuit, on sheer principle alone but also because were the average christkike to get off his ass and stop whining and mewling for Rabbi Yeshua to save him, if he were to take up arms, it will be to fight AGAINST US and FOR THE KIKES. It's not even a matter of optics, christkikes are hardwired to throw their bodies forward and take a bullet for the kike. They literally believe it's their duty to go die in the desert for Israel. Why are you so dishonest? Why do you omit such a crucial fact?

>>8021
>Yes. It's pretty fucking rich that you equate killing christkikes with kinslaying given that those cocksuckers are the very reason we're in such a sorry state in the first place.
Europe survived one thousand years with Christianity having no effect, religion is completely superficial. We are in the sorry state we are in now because of dysgenics. You are a great example of this.

>>8021
>Yes. It's pretty fucking rich that you equate killing christkikes with kinslaying given that those cocksuckers are the very reason we're in such a sorry state in the first place. 
I hate Christianity.
But I am not fighting to kill White Christians. 
>the intent to kill TRAITORS AGAINST OUR RACE.
Your definition of traitor includes at least 95% of our race.
Hell, do you and I even meet your own standards? Neither of us are killing jews. 
Again, what are you even fighting for if it involves killing most of our own people?
I hope you also support a 100% extermination for all non-Whites too or the survivors of your genocide are going to quickly be overrun.
And how the hell would you even accomplish this in the first place?

Nevermind, I would like an answer to this please. >>8020

>>7978
Ironmarch and /fascist/ have not achieved any real-life action(apart from some book reading). Safe to to say, as long as book worms are at the helms of WNs, nothing will or will ever happen. 30 years of book reading with no real life action? couldve spent said time socializing, or moving on in life away from IBs.

>>8020
First >>8021 is not me. but I'll answer your shit to him too, and i already lost an hours worth of work because my computer froze so I'm going to be short and to the point.
>We're killing all Christians now too?
Always were, It's in the name National Socialist, if you think you are an ally or even claim to be NS and can tolerate even the mere presence of a christnigger, then you are an enemy and you too are on the shitlist.
>Again, it seems like you'd like to kill 95% of our race.
If that is what must be, it shall be, but don't and pretend we're gonna leave shitskins whether they be jews or otherwise alone, that is not and never was the case, I, at least advocate for Ethnoglobalism, ie the complete extermination of all inferior races. worldwide, without exception or mercy
>What the hell are you even fighting for? The very reason you pronounce Libertarians inferior is that they don't stand up for their race. Yet here you are proclaiming your intent to wipe out most of our race.
I told you like 8 times in my last post, but I'll say it again.
Nstional Socialists, do not fight for what is, and preserving as much of it as possible, we are not conservatives, we are revolutionaries, and not your milquetoast "revolutionaries" that simply seek to take over what is standing now. OH fuck no, we seek the absolute and merciless destruction of the current order. Not just the buildings, no, nor the racial invaders on our soil. No we seek to destroy and uproot everything, from morality as it stands in the public consciousness today to the putrid stain of christianity across our entire race, and the likes of every shitskin who has ever fucking lived, whether in our countries or not. if we have to kill 95% of our race because they oppose what must be done, then, SO BE IT!
>This is so, so naive. I need to address this before I handle anything else. 
nowhere below do you even begin to point out my naivety in any way, and as a matter of fact before my computer said fuck you bye bye post I had a long explanation of many things about how I would operate completely ignoring your moronic post except for the numbers with when I take action, but I have no patience to rewrite it now nor do I have the patience to entertain your idiocy, when you don't even point out what you claim.
The few things I will bother saying are: The end goal of killing lolberts, that are only your specific niche of the wide breadth of those who call themselves such, is mostly done when supplies are needed and the quickest and best way of acquiring them is to take from those who have far more than they need, this doersn't necessiotate killing them, true, but why leave behind a witness who will almost surely report it to the police or feds the moment you're gone. and if done after government go bye bye, why leave someone behind who can find others to try and take their shit back? This, if you had bothered actually reading what I wrote before was never going to be the opening move, you complete moron. It would only have anything to do with the event or action or whatever you wish to call it, that might kick off SHTF if and only if we had already used what we could acquire before hand and needed to desperately acquire supplies while being hunted or if they somehow just magically knew what we were doing and attempted to stop us.
As for how I would start the SHTF, I will never tell anyone on any electronic media, you want to know? Come to my door, but if you were to come to my house, don't expect to leave alive.
>>8022
Just because we survived iit doesn't mean, it wasn't doing harm, christianity especially is one of the prime causes of the  dysgenics you decry and falsely apply to me. The very fact that you could say that incredibly stupid and ignorant statement proves you know literally fucking nothing about the history of our race, and as such you are not worth engaging beyond this.
>>8024
>I hate Christianity.
No you don't, the most you do is disagree with it, or you wouldn't still be following the moral programming your parents either did themselves or had done to you, it's transparent and oozes out of every fucking putrid word you type, if you actually hated it, you would have done as I and many other NS did and ripped that shit out of yourself, and replaced it with the true values, beliefs and morality of our people.
>But I am not fighting to kill White Christians. 
Then I cannot wait to see them stab retards just like you, right in the fucking back, that is what will happen and choosing to remove it and actively destroy it, is the only way to stop that from happening.
>Your definition of traitor includes at least 95% of our race.
So? a collapse occurring, which will be very rapid compared to the past will take care of most of it for us
>Hell, do you and I even meet your own standards? Neither of us are killing jews. 
Irrelevant,  and even if my or the other anon's standards required that, why would either of us tell you?
>Again, what are you even fighting for if it involves killing most of our own people?
Yes, because this has been a civil war going back about two thousand years that those who wish for our race to survive, thrive, and evolve into what we are meant to be are currently on the losing side of.
>I hope you also support a 100% extermination for all non-Whites too or the survivors of your genocide are going to quickly be overrun.
Obviously that is the case, probably for both of us. but, even if they could be a threat the traitors would still come first, an enemy within, is far worse than one without.
>And how the hell would you even accomplish this in the first place?
Who said we had to do anything for a long while? in the event of a catastrophic power loss, whether natural ie sunspots/solarflares/etc. or man made, 90% of the current population will be dead in less than a year, from various causes of death but the majority will probably be exposure, and starvation, followed by violence.

>>8029
> if we have to kill 95% of our race because they oppose what must be done, then, SO BE IT!
Surely you realize that most people reading stuff like this assume you're either a fed or roleplaying?
>we seek the absolute and merciless destruction of the current order. 
Yes, but why?
And how will you do that when you have openly stated that your objective is to kill most of our own race? No one is going to help you and, given what you have stated, the best interests of 95% or even more of our own race, nevermind jews and shitskins is to side with jews to destroy you. You've given your own race no option but to side with jews or die. I mean, sure, technically they could join you but no one will because everyone will just consider you a deranged, unreasoning lunatic.

>nowhere below do you even begin to point out my naivety in any way
I would like to know what your goal is first so I can explain how intentionally turning everyone against it will not further your objectives.

>The end goal of killing lolberts, is mostly done when supplies are needed 
>why leave someone behind who can find others to try and take their shit back?
Firstly, no one will be under any illusion who did this. Especially since the media will be working closely with the FBI.
Secondly, so obviously you shouldn't reveal anything about yourself or any plans (which, I will be blunt, I don't believe you will do.) The issue is that you, I suspect, have thought a bit about tactics but not much about strategy. Again, a revolutionary must consider the ultimate goal: Winning. I read lots of fire and bloodshed in your posts. Is that the goal? Killing? That's not a strategy.
Again I ask: How will intentionally pissing off the vast majority of your own race lead to you being in a position to kill them all?

Also, as an aside, your weapons gathering strategy sounds like a brigand, not a revolutionary. A lot of literature has been written about this from real revolutionaries, including Dr. William Pierce, and they all stress against doing this.

>>8032
>>8029
Your rage is justified. But rage without strategy is pointless waste. I hope that you don't end up shooting up a walmart. If you do choose the iron path, think long and hard about consequences (not for you but for the struggle) for a year or you'll end up accomplishing nothing but feeding the system and further sabotaging serious revolutionaries' efforts to overthrow the jews.

Shooting up a walmart is not a serious revolutionary act. It's just empty rage.

>>8032
>Surely you realize that most people reading stuff like this assume you're either a fed or roleplaying?
No fed would ever say that probably not even insincerely, their goals are to make you say or reveal things, not to tell you what to say and if that fails to literally just make shit up, if they did come here they wouldn't get anything from any actual fucking denizen of this board which you are clearly not.
 I am not roleplaying either and who are you to presume that I have ever cared what anyone else thought? why would it matter to me if they disagreed or not? my beliefs and  what I choose are for me to decide, not you nor anyone else.
>Yes, but why?
I have stated this CLEARLY several times already I will not do so again.
>And how will you do that when you have openly stated that your objective is to kill most of our own race
Why tell you and waste my time doing so? why give anyone who may or may not be an enemy any fucking idea as to what I plan to do in any fucking way?
>No one is going to help you and, given what you have stated, the best interests of 95% or even more of our own race, nevermind jews and shitskins is to side with jews to destroy you.
Funny then you complete fucking retard that one of the biggest reasons reason I hold the position I do is BECAUSE THEY ALREADY DID SIDE WITH MY ENEMY BEFORE I EVEN KNEW I WAS A NAZI! I didn't come to these positions to be fucking edgy, I did it first because they were the correct answer to the questions I asked of the universe, I reasoned, argued and clawed my way to the truth through every fucking retard coming at me whining and crying about all the poor little white people who are going to die many of whom argued that hitler was wronmg bnecauser he's jewish(false), or he killed 55million whites(only tangentially) if you blame him for the war, which no sane rational person could ever actually fucking do as he took every step and every measure to AVOID and what did his enemies, whom he treated and thought of as BROTHERS do? that's right they started a fucking war, brought in every single power on earth that wasn't in the axis or supported by the axis to use as a distraction and crushed Germany, not for themsleves but for the jew! Did you somehow not think that the loss of the war, which was a loss for any and every single White, who had even an iota of Aryan spirit left on the face of the planet, was not a lesson, that nothing could be learned from it. I tell you what spoke to me as I read Mein Kampf again after I came to this point, it showed me that the man who wrote that book believed almost exactly what I believe now, unlike him, I do not have the luxury of being nice, lying and sugarcoating what I seek to do, There are just under 200 million of our people left on this earth, at a bare minimum, we need 1 million people, assuming a 50:50 gender split, to preserve our genetic diversity as a race as it stands now, that's the bottom line and if we have to go even lower, we have to, what we have to do. Lets underscore just how bad shit is though, the best projections for the planet, if say electricity were to fail worldwide, and be impossible to repair within any reasonable time frame( which is very possible with a strong enough solar flare or storm) is that somewhere in the area of 90% of the population of the planet would be dead in less than a year, so we're looking at about  20 milion whites left on earth give or take a few million, how many of us would be among that number? Maybe 2 and a half million? we'd still be outnumbered by more than ten to one, by traitors, not even mentioning the shitskins, and both you and I know whether you want to admit it or not that Christians will not work with Nazis, not even the much vaunted CI tards, and even if they did work with us, it would be for no reason other than to use us until they could stab us in the back, I've heard it straight out of the mouths of far too many christniggers, and especially CI's. The same can be said of christianity's bastard children the Liberals, the Commies and the Libertarians, and all the other christian moralists out there.
>I would like to know what your goal is first so I can explain how intentionally turning everyone against it will not further your objectives.
I've told you at least 7 times, I really, really hate repeating myself, and I assure whatever bullshit you're gonna try to pull out, it isn't going to work, the odds that I directly refute the central point or will point out that already refuted what you will say, are very very high.
>Firstly, no one will be under any illusion who did this. Especially since the media will be working closely with the FBI.
For the last time it does not matter what the people are told, if they believe the lies of the enemy and choose to act against us they are the enemy, this is not a difficult thing to understand, not even remotely. Ignorance isn't an excuse, cowardice is not an excuse, it does not matter what they know or don't, if they cannot kill all of us in one fell swoop they will fail, and we will win eventually, and even if we cannot win, I'll refer to Savitri Devi and her quote on nuclear fire as to whether we'd make sure it all went up in smoke or not, we are not here to save a race or any member of it which hates us, that includes our own, I don't give a fuck if it's your sister your brother your mother or father or my own, if they stand against me, I will kill them, and I am far from the only National socialist to think this and I assure you this is what Hitler believed as well, he just couched it in pretty language and sought to do it over time, unfortunately he failed and we don't have any luxury remaining.
>The issue is that you, I suspect, have thought a bit about tactics but not much about strategy
I have thought about strategy and in strategy there is zero parts that gives a fuck about what people might think about what actions must be taken strategy is only concerning what is the most effective way to do what must be done. I don't care and it is not relevant, nor will it ever be, as to what the media will say, nor is it relevant what lemmings believe, because the lemmings do as they are told and think as they are told to think by the most powerful people around whether they are comfortable or not, so long as they are safe.
>Is that the goal? Killing? That's not a strategy.
How many fuicking times are you going to ask the question I have already answered repeatedly and in how many different ways? You gonna continue to be fucking oblivious until you are removed from this board?
 >How will intentionally pissing off the vast majority of your own race lead to you being in a position to kill them all?
Why do you keep being the dumbest most optimistic fucking idiot? When the nazi's are able to march there will no longer be a media to manipulate the lemmings, and even if(big if) there is, the lemmings will not listen because the government is no longer airing the circuses (niggerball, etc,) and providing all their bread, aka comforts of any sort whether food or not, get that through your fucking skull, the system worldwide has been designed for 80 years to suppress National Socialists, while continuing it's mission to kill all white people, do you really think we'll march and undertake what needs to be done when it is most disadvantageous for us to do so, no, those of us who can remain strong and stay sane through their shit designed to make us insane bide our time, prepare as best we can, and let the road lead where it may, because chaos benefits us and furthers our goals at present until we can act and proceed from there.
>Dr. William Pierce, and they all stress against doing this.
I can assure you Pierce didn't care, this has always and will always be done by revolutionaries, and "legitimate" armies alike, even if he talked against doing so in The Turner Diaries, which I don't recall at all, and wouldn't be out of the norm for a book designed to recruit people, nor do I remember it in any of his radio shows that I've watched, even if so, it doesn't matter, even the Germans stole supplies from enemies and neutrals and their own people alike when they had to, because it is necessary in war, always has been, I'm just adding killing any of those who oppose our cause when we need to do so, as a matter of course, it does not do to leave an enemy ,let alone a traitor alive and that I know for certain Pierce agreed with me on.
>>8033
the next time you confuse passion for rage, or accuse me of not thinking or being able to think just because my soul is filled with the rage of the gods, you'll be the first target of my rage, I chose the "iron path" as you call it almost half a decade ago because it was the only way to go. I have thought longer and harder than your puny mind can comprehend as to why this must be done the way I have said repeatedly, I have never once fucking said I was going to, nor intimated that I would, nor thought to, nor encouraged anyone else to go and shoot up a Walmart, if you bring that example up again as if that is what anyone actually fucking means when they say violence is necessary and say that the level and brutality of violence that is necessary would make your faint little heart break. I'm fairly certain you will be banned, Orlog has banned better than you for being traitors who cannot even bother to read an essay of 88 precepts and follow the advice therein.

>>8021
It's fine to hate them but don't be excessive. You don't need to kill them unless they openly oppose you. Most of them are mere followers and will not turn out to be obstacles. Convert their sons and daughters. That's what the Germans were doing in the late 30s, in a country that was almost 100% Christian. Outside of the US and perhaps some Latin and Eastern countries in Europe, Christianity is a dying creed. It will be easier to get rid of it in due time. The problem right now is the lack of a religious alternative, a sort of White islam but full of 100% pagan and White stuff. Now, understand that Muhammad didn't have anything like an organized religion when he did what he did, assuming he ever existed. He certainly was seconded by a few smart people and there is no doubt that Islam was a serious attempt at correcting the errors and contextual limits of Christianity in the Middle East. However it kept these people anchored to Semitism which is something we cannot tolerate so we will have to work on this.

>>8034
The both of you write way too much and I am sure neither of you could hold a proper discourse face to face.

>>8034
>No fed would ever say that...their goals are to make you say or reveal thing
I don't believe that you are a fed. However, among the goals of the enemy is to convince White men to commit meaningless crimes which they can arrest us for. 
>I have stated this CLEARLY several times
I disagree. You have told me that this is just a tactic to acquire weapons. There are many, far less harmful ways to acquire weapons. I'm asking how this tactic, which is 100% guaranteed to align virtually our entire race behind the very regime we must defeat, will lead to victory.

Furthermore, you say in more or less words that after we win, we will move on to exterminate basically all White people, leaving only those of us who fought the regime at the start alive. How will you even accomplish this with a miniscule number of intensely despised people even if you managed to somehow destroy ZOG. Without public support, your force would be no better than a moderately sized (at best) street gang. It's as if you took the NPC meme a little too seriously and believe that you're the main character in an Anime or action game.

Finally, it is obvious from your explanation that acquiring weapons is secondary to punishing those whom you, correctly, blame for the dominance of the jews.
Thus, the overall gyst of what you're saying is that 95% or more of our race is the enemy because they're traitors and we need to kill them all in retaliation.

> unlike Hitler, I do not have the luxury of being nice, lying and sugarcoating what I seek to do
Unfortunately, you are in a far worse situation than Hitler was. You have zero power to enforce anything. Proclaiming your intention to kill most White people is not going to fix this.
>we need 1 million people, to preserve our genetic diversity
Proclaiming that we're going to murder most White people is not going to be very effective at getting those 1 million Whites.

>If they're not with us, they're against us
Explain how we go from totally powerless to controlling the entire world while actively trying to help the jews mobilize our own race against us. You go around killing random Whites and that's it, revolution over. The entire point of a revolution is to harness the power of an aggrieved population against the regime. Without popular support of at least a significant minority of our people, we will be utterly powerless forever.

>I have thought about strategy and it doesn't matter what people think about us
Fine, then articulate how one goes from powerless nobodies to masters of the earth while actively making sure that our population unites behind the jews in order to survive.

> When the nazi's are able to march there will no longer be a media to manipulate the lemmings
You never explain how we go from not even being able to influence a school board meeting to masters of the world.
>We knock out electricity so they can't watch niggerball
Dude... if you're literally going to murder 95% of White people, knocking out power doesn't make them like you. It gives them more time to kill you.
And since they will all want to kill you, what is the point of knocking out power in the first place?
Think.

>for 80 years to suppress National Socialists, while continuing it's mission to kill all white people
That's your goal too though. Why do you even care about the jews killing White people when you also want to do this?

>this has always and will always be done by revolutionaries
That's hopelessly naive to the point of delusion. No, revolutionaries do not try to wipe out their own core group.

>>8034
>the next time you confuse passion for rage, or accuse me of not thinking or being able to think just because my soul is filled with the rage of the gods, you'll be the first target of my rage,
LMAO
This fucking guy.

>I never said shoot up a walmart
You literally stated that you'd like to wipe out most of your own race. That's even more asinine than shooting up a walmart. At least Crusias was targeting spics. You're literally trying to target White people. wtf

>>8039
If I only had more time, I'd write less.
The problem with AIB format is that a lot is said and it's difficult to respond succinctly to a huge array of ideas and arguments.

Simply put: No, murdering our own people is not how we gain power.

It is pointless to fret about having to kill White people in our struggle, counterproductive even. Million of policemen are White, and they have no compunction about enforcing the System's nightmarish dystopia. Europe has plenty of White cops, and they either worked to cover up the mass rape of hundreds of thousands of children of their own nations and arrest the grieving parents, all to safeguard their own paychecks. There are some who didn't actively cooperate but they're irrelevant, they kept quiet for fear of their own livelihood. The USA has plenty of White federal agents who are perfectly content to arrest and kill their own kinsmen simply because those are their orders and that's what they get paid for. Millions of White soldiers utterly destroyed Germany in WWII, because they were told to. Millions of White civilians go and snitch on their own neighbors (sometimes their own families) for whatever random thing the System considers bad goy behavior, because they've been conditioned to see us as "evil terrorists" and to refuse to see race due to decades of brainwashing. And don't get me started on the White businessmen, politicians, and other bigwigs that directly cooperate with the kikes, selling out their own people and their future as a race for selfish personal gain.

It's grim, it's awful, it's unpleasant, but it's an immutable reality any WN has to internalize, or we'll never get out of our rut. If one side of a war hesitates to shoot because the other side is mostly made of kinsmen, they will lose because their opponents have no such compunctions.

Does this mean one should kill indiscriminately? No. But countless Whites will die as a result of our actions, whether because they're meat shields to the kikes, or as collateral damage. We won't always have a perfect vantage point with a peach of a shot to take out a US senator, for example. More than once we'll have to go through their security detail, though all the White meat shields protecting them. And taking out police stations, government offices or military facilities (to say nothing of dockyards, power plants, airports, etc.) will incur collateral damage in the form of White civilians. It's unavoidable. Similarly, many servants of the System will have to be killed even if they're White. Cops will patrol the streets looking for us and move to arrest us, so they have to be killed. Soldiers will be deployed to kills us, so they have to be fought off. Snitching neighbors have to be silenced. Even an otherwise innocent electrician or night watchman might have to be killed during a clandestine operation simply because they're a potential witness. The moral repugnance of being a race traitor aside, from a purely pragmatic standpoint lots of Whites will be in antagonistic roles and they will have to be taken out, or we'll lose the struggle. It's not easy, but if we want to abide by the Fourteen Words, we'll have to spill a lot of our own people's blood, because the enemy will have no hesitation in spilling ours.

But the faggot demoralizer in this thread is arguing in bad faith, so all he's gonna get from this post is "lul go shoot random people at walmart"

>>8045
>Simply put: No, murdering our own people is not how we gain power.
That's where you're 100% wrong, it will be an absolute necessity, whether you whine like a bitch, as you are now, or not.
>>8043
>However, among the goals of the enemy is to convince White men to commit meaningless crimes which they can arrest us for
You mean like the nationwide, RICO qualifying Vandalism campaign of Patriot Front? Yeah about that you'd be absolutely right, you are not correct about any shooter, so long as they took the life of even one shitskin or traitor, they erased a life the system values, and prevented those people from going on to do further harm to our race.
>I disagree
I told you the answer multiple fucking times, it's a way to acquire weapons, first and foremost, and also a variety of other operational supplies including food, medical supplies, ammunition, and depending on when it has to be done and what we have behind us, possibly building supplies, construction equipment, and many other useful things at just one of these preppers houses.
Almost every one of them is ideologically, morally, and religiously in opposition to National Socialists and you think it's a good idea to let them live just because they're White?  are you a moron, once again? I'm not going to negotiate with someone who has betrayed the race their entire life just because they share a similar origin to me, not only is that naive, it's also a bad move strategically and tactically.
It is in no way guaranteed to turn anyone against us, even if the fact that we did it were ever to leave the place it occurred, which is incredibly unlikely, at least in my case, I would leave no witnesses, and no evidence that it was National Socialists specifically, certainly not if there was no reason to leave said evidence. It's like you think the kikes and government are omniscient and will have footage of everything we do, and be able to transmit that to every single White worldwide simultaneously. You also act as if we weren't already fighting with pretty much our entire race arrayed against us from the start, because we are and have been since around 1938.
>Furthermore, you say in more or less words that after we win, we will move on to exterminate basically all White people, leaving only those of us who fought the regime at the start alive.
 I never said that. We will be cleaning house, to the entire race, from eliminating dysgenic nightmares, to ideological dissidents, every form of traitor or undesirable to a Eugenic society will be dealt with in an appropriate manner, both while we fight and once we have destroyed what we must and while we rebuild, and basically until the end of time, or until our reborn Aryan society undergoes another upheaval somewhere further into the future, whichever comes first.
>How will you even accomplish this with a miniscule number of intensely despised people even if you managed to somehow destroy ZOG.
That's our fucking starting point, and it's not going to change until people learn that we should be feared and decide not pissing us off is far better than the alternative, regardless I Intend to take my best shot and if that means I'll be soaked in more blood than Genghis Khan, so be it.
 I will not compromise just to get more people on my side, because I am not an idiot, I am not a coward, and I follow the advice of those who came before, because we can see that so many of them who gave that advice, later chose not to follow it, and that failure to follow that advice directly led to their failure, and that includes Hitler. 
The last bit about NPC's, apparently you don't realize that what the meme conveys originated with Dr. Pierce and it was called the lemming theory, and so far it has not been remotely proven to be wrong, although the modern form was flanderized and stolen by conservacucks and applied to leftists more-so than themselves and the population at large.
>Thus, the overall gyst of what you're saying is that 95% or more of our race is the enemy because they're traitors and we need to kill them all in retaliation.
it's gist btw and yeah, although I highly doubt that killing all of them would be strictly necessary, but that would be why one would create methods with which to identify those who can be made of use and those who can't, remember we're National Socialists not conservatives.
>Unfortunately, you are in a far worse situation than Hitler was. You have zero power to enforce anything. Proclaiming your intention to kill most White people is not going to fix this.
Holy shit, you begin to see why such drastic measure might be necessary! I don't give a fuck whether they know or not, if they somehow missed the memo, that's not my problemm one's own ignorance is their own problem, this intention has been spelled out in pretty much every piece of NS literature there is.
>Proclaiming that we're going to murder most White people is not going to be very effective at getting those 1 million Whites.
It doesn't seem to have any effect on christniggers at all, they regularly expound on killing everyone who doesn't fit their perfect mould, and that's directly one of the reasons their moronic religion survived from it's origin in Gamaliel, Paul, and Mark's minds.
>Explain how we go from totally powerless to controlling the entire world while actively trying to help the jews mobilize our own race against us
Explain where I said I wanted the whole world in my lifetime? I mean if I'm incredibly lucky, blessed with every ounce of aid the gods and our ancestors can provide, and get everything just perfectt, it might be possible, but =I'm not counting on it, a state of our own from where we can build up and then go on to finish the job completely over the course of several generations is fine by me because I will make sure that it will go on to do just that if it's even remotely possible, and it's not just remotely possible.
The government is pissing off the populace and destroying itself just fine on it's own, once it goes down the entire world will follow it into chaos, and that chaos is where we will jockey for power, kill our enemies, traitors, every single shitskin in sight, etc., etc.. You're a moron for thinking it's not going to be bloodier than you can imagine, It'll probably even be worse than I can Imagine, and I'm imagining a lot of blood.
Right now there's probably 2 or 3 million people in the US alone who think like me, and would gladly join me in killing whomever we need to, because unlike all our enemies we know that violence is the way to the end and we are more than willing to bathe in blood if that's what it takes, and it is. Even considering the possibility that most of them will die, it's still likely to be more than million left, NS tend to be much more likely to survive, and if you compromise for women you're even dumber, their voluntary participation is not even remotely required, nor is it particularly desired with how corrupted by feminism they are today.
>Fine, then articulate how one goes from powerless nobodies to masters of the earth while actively making sure that our population unites behind the jews in order to survive.
It's been spelled out too many times, but if I have a better trained, more willing to kill, more brutal fighting force than my enemy and I kill all of them no matter what method I must use to do so, what does it matter? I can't possibly spell out every single details of the future, nor would I, if I could.
>You never explain how we go from not even being able to influence a school board meeting to masters of the world.
Killing everyone who opposes us, taking whatever we want and must to do that, by whatever means we must, and then when we're done, oh holy shit the worlds ours!, how hard is it to understand? this is the same method literally everyone else will use, and has always used, from the ancient times to now.
>Dude... if you're literally going to murder 95% of White people, knocking out power doesn't make them like you
Never said i was going to, also never said it wouldd, and I don't care if it were to make it worse, but pray tell how they find out we, or whoever, did it, if the TV, and the internet and pretty much every single modern convenience of the last 200 or so years isn't going to work for months or even years? I highly doubt stability would remain long enough for them to begin to investigate,  and even if they all somehow magically had solar power, or something similar, if the news doesn't have power, and the government is so poorly managed and staffed as it is now, how would anyone know? Never mind that Sol, could take it all away far more permanently than man, in moments, at any time with less than 8 minutes of warning?
>And since they will all want to kill you, what is the point of knocking out power in the first place?
As repeatedly stated, and you seem to be completely oblivious to, they already do want to kill us, so why would we not create chaos if we had the opportunity, and literally force the shit to collapse, then fight and kill until we can create what we want?
>That's your goal too though. Why do you even care about the jews killing White people when you also want to do this?
No, my goal is to kill all non-whites on the planet, and clean up the White race as best can be done, so that it can grow far stronger and more Aryan than it ever has been, this does not require saving dysgenic fucks, cowards, traitors, or even worthless lemmings, Quit acting like it does or that their opinions on anything even matter.
>That's hopelessly naive to the point of delusion. No, revolutionaries do not try to wipe out their own core group.
Tell that to Castro, Trotsky, Lenin, Mao, and so on. They did exactly that, as did Hitler, Plenty of political prisoners were purely German and many were executed, honestly he might have been able to win if he had taken it further, alas he let too many traitors stay in the ranks of the Wermacht and in various government positions who fucked him and Germany itself over.
>You literally stated that you'd like to wipe out most of your own race
Yep, those are the demands of National Socialism and of the Natural Law we seek to follow, don't like it? Leave.
They were always a target of NS, it is not now, and never was, about saving the White race that exists now as a whole, it's about making it better, it's diseased and full of weakness, greed, dysgenic monstrosities, the corruption of a foreign religion designed by our enemies, prey tell why waste time and effort trying to change their ways peacefully and garner their sympathy when killing them is so much more expedient and wastes far less resources?
>>8039
This has always been the case on /fascist/, you don't belong.
>>8046
Pro-tip: quit talking about White Nationalists, many of them are not actually allies of NS or Fascists, and are traitors cloaking themselves in pro-white talking point's to slip under the radar, or bilk us out of money, case in point The Right Stuff, etc..

An except from The Turner Diaries. Relevant to the current conversation.

>October 28. Last night I had to do the most unpleasant thing that I have been called to do since joining the Organization four years ago. I participated in the execution of a mutineer.
>Harry Powell was Unit 5's leader. Last week, when Washington Field Command gave his unit the assignment of assassinating two of the most obnoxious and outspoken advocates of racial mixing in this area-a priest and a rabbi, coauthors of a widely publicized petition to Congress requesting special tax advantages for racially mixed marned couples - Powell refused the assignment. He sent a message back to WFC saying that he was opposed to the further use of violence and that his unit would not participate in any acts of terrorism.
>He was immediately placed under arrest, and yesterday one representative from each unit under WFC-including Unit S- was summoned to judge him. Unit 10 was not able to send anyone, and so 11 members-eight men and three women- met with an officer from WFC in the basement storeroom of a gift shop owned by one of our "legals." I was Unit l 's representative.
>The officer from WFC stated the case against Powell very briefly. The Unit 5 representative then confirmed the facts: Powell had not only refused to obey the assassination order, but he had instructed the members of his unit not to obey either. Fortunately, they had not allowed themselves to be subverted by him.
>Powell was then given an opportunity to speak in his behalf. He did so for more than two hours, interrupted occasionally by a question from one of us. What he said really shook me, but it made our decision easier for all of us, I am sure. Harry Powell was, in essence, a "responsible conservative." The fact that he was not only a member of the Organization but had become a unit leader reflects more on the Organization than it does on him. His basic complaint was that all our acts of terror against the System were only making things worse by "provoking" the System into taking more and more repressive measures.
>Well, of course, we all understood that! Or, at least, I thought we all understood it. Apparently Powell didn't. That is, he didn't understand that one of the major purposes of political terror, always and everywhere, is to force the authorities to take reprisals and to become more repressive, thus alienating a portion of the population and generating sympathy for the terrorists. And the other purpose is to create unrest by destroying the population's sense of security and their belief in the invincibility of the government.
>As Powell continued talking, it became clearer and clearer that he was a conservative, not a revolutionary. He talked as if the whole purpose of the Organization were to force the System to institute certain reforms, rather than to destroy the System, root and branch, and build something radically and fundamentally different in its place.
>He was opposed to the System because it taxed his business too heavily. (He had owned a hardware store before we were forced underground.) He was opposed to the System's permissiveness with Blacks, because crime and rioting were bad for business. He was opposed to the System's confiscation of firearms, because he felt he needed a gun for personal security. His were the motivations of a libertarian, the sort of self-centered individual who sees the basic evil in government as a limitation on free enterprise.
>Someone asked him whether he had forgotten what the Organization has repeated over and over, namely, that our struggle is to secure the future of our race, and that the issue of individual freedom is subordinate to that one, overwhelming purpose. His retort was that the Organization's violent tactics are benefiting neither our race nor individual freedom.
>This answer proved again that he didn't really understand what we are trying to do. His initial approval of the use of force against the System was based on the naive assumption that, by God, we'll show those bastards! When the System, instead of backing down, began tightening the screws even faster, he decided that our policy of terrorism is counter-productive.
>He simply could not accept the fact that the path to our goal cannot be a retracing of our course to some earlier stage in our history, but must instead be an overcoming of the present and a forging ahead into the future-with us choosing the direction instead of the System. Until we have torn the rudder out of its grasp and thrown the System overboard, the ship of state will go careening on its hazardous way. There will be no stopping, no going back. Since we are already among rocks and shoals, we are bound to get scraped up pretty badly before we find any clear sailing.
>Maybe he was right that our tactics are wrong; the reaction of the people will eventually answer that question. But his whole attitude, his whole orientation was wrong. As I listened to Powell I was reminded of the late-19th century writer, Brooks Adams, and his division of the human race into two classes: spiritual man and economic man. Powell was the epitome of economic man.
>Ideologies, ultimate purposes, the fundamental contradiction between the System's world view and ours-all these things had no meaning for him. He regarded the Organization's philosophy as just so much ideological flypaper designed to catch recruits for us. He saw our struggle against the System as a contest for power and nothing more. If we could not whip them, then we should
try to force them to compromise with us.
>I wondered how many others in the Organization thought the way Powell did, and I shuddered. We have been forced to grow too quickly. There has not been sufficient time to develop in all our people the essentially religious attitude toward our purpose and our doctrines which would have prevented the Powell incident by screening him out early.
>As it was, we had no real choice in deciding Powell's fate. There was not only his disobedience to consider, but also the fact that he had revealed himself to be fundamentally unreliable. To have one of us-and a unit leader, at that-talking openly to other members about trying to find a way to compromise with the System, with the war just beginning… There was only one way to deal with such a situation.
>The eight male members present drew straws, and three of us, including me, ended up on the execution squad. When Powell realized that he was going to be killed, he tried to make a break. We tied his hands and feet, and then we had to gag him when he began shouting. We drove him to a wooded area off the highway about 10 miles south of Washington, shot him, and buried him. I got back a little after midnight, but I still haven't been able to get to sleep. I am very, very depressed.

>>8046
I never said or implied that no Whites should be harmed. Traitors should die.
However, the topic of discussion boils down to 
>AT LEAST 95% of our race are traitors because they are not fighting back today.
>therefore, they should all die.
Anon has articulated these points multiple times. Everyone from libertarians to Christians. Nevermind, I presume, every last liberal and neutral.
This is pure foolishness.

>all he's gonna get from this post is "lul go shoot random people at walmart"
If your position is that we should execute 95% of our race, that is quite literally what you are advocating.
ffs, he literally states that EVEN WHITE NATIONALISTS are going to get the axe.

>>8052
It is not very related to the conversation. In this story, Pierce is talking about a weak willed libertarian in the Organization. Nowhere in the Turner Diaries does Pierce advocate making our goal the near extermination of our own race, as anon advises.
The Organization doesn't target Christians or Libertarians in their homes. And Pierce even discusses exactly what anon is talking about doing in the first or second chapter and concludes that White insurgents should NOT rob our own people for money, weapons, or supplies due to the exact reasons I cite.

>>8048
>I have a better trained, more willing to kill, more brutal fighting force than my enemy and I kill all of them no matter what method I must use to do so
Firstly, lol. No, anon. You are not going to kill billions of people on your own or even if you did have a sizeable squad of terrorists behind you. No matter how smart or skilled they are, you will suffer casualties over time. With no ability to recruit more to your cause (since everyone correctly views you as an existential threat), your starting force of 30 whittles down to 9 over time.
Every single person in America will report your every mistake to the FBI since you revealed your intention to kill them and their children.

>Explain where I said I wanted the whole world in my lifetime?
I mean, that's your goal regardless. You will not even get to kill all the Whites in America you don't like without power, nevermind the world. You won't even get to kill all the Whites in your state you don't like without political power. Genocide on the scale you lust after is impossible without a state under your full control. Which, btw, is impossible given that no one will ever help you and everyone will try to kill you and with good reason.

>I will rise to power in the chaos.
You will not because you revealed that you'll kill everyone everyone will help anyone but you.

>You're a moron for thinking it's not going to be bloodier than you can imagine
You are severely mistaken. You think I am a pacifist. I am anything but. I am far more serious than you are about this. That is why I find your silly notions about killing nobodies for petty revenge to be laughable. 
You have not thought about this seriously so you are not bloodier than I am by any standard, not that this is a brag. You talk loud but there's no strategy behind your urges. I want White men in power. 

>there's probably 2 or 3 million people in the US alone who think like me,
Well, that's unfounded. Where do you get the notion that 2 million men want to wipe out our own race save for a few million?

>Killing everyone who opposes us
With what army? You have none.

>>8056
>>8048
To expand a little bit, if you had 30 of the best trained terrorists in history, you would still have nowhere near 0.000000001% of the forces needed to exterminate most of the planet including most White people.
In order to gain the forced to exterminate most White people, you would need to recruit more White people.
But no one is going to join you because you want to exterminate most White people.

Catch 22.

Revise your policy on genociding most White people.

>>8048
>This has always been the case on /fascist/, you don't belong.
Are you convincing yourself that you have achieved something meaningful with far reaching repercussions just because you merely unleashed kilobytes of text upon an obscure image board?
Big Brain Little Arms syndrome. Do you want to vent forever?

>>8054
>Traitors should die
>Everyone from libertarians to Christians
Exactly, however you presume too much, and also mischaracterize why Christians should be killed, Libertarians are almost always christian as well so the distinction is largely moot.
All christians should be killed and the religion wiped from the planet for it's 200 year history of nothing but harm to our Race, spiritually, physically and mentally, it cannot coexist with us, not any longer you can cry all you like but this is absolutely necessary, if we let christianity continue to exist it will lead to our extinction, sure we could delay it but with these automatic traitors who whish to serve a jewish king for eternity among our numbers, progress to our goal would eventually stall and we would end up back here again.
As for neutrals? who's neutral? Atheists who cling to christian moral programming even stronger than many christians do? The leftist morons on the streets? the cowardly conservacuck christniggers hiding in their safe white suburban neighborhoods all over the country while they vote for politicians deadset on selling them out for the mexicans/guatemalans/el salvadorians/etcs they hire to clean their homes or that they have continued to replace experienced expensive white workers for?
You're also straw manning again like a faggot
If your position is that we should execute 95% of our race, that is quite literally what you are advocating.
>ffs, he literally states that EVEN WHITE NATIONALISTS are going to get the axe.
My position is that no betrayer shall espace if that nbecessitates the death of 95% of the Whites on the planet, so be it, that's still leaves about 20 million of our people to continue the race, which is much more workable than you think and even if you only spent sixty years shoring up numbers, you could have more than recovered back to pre purge numbers in that time with a simple policy like Hitler's on encouraging kids, a minimum of 4 per family repeated for 3 generations would be well beyond what one would require.
>>8056
>Firstly, lol. No, anon. You are not going to kill billions of people on your own or even if you did have a sizeable squad of terrorists behind you. No matter how smart or skilled they are, you will suffer casualties over time. With no ability to recruit more to your cause (since everyone correctly views you as an existential threat), your starting force of 30 whittles down to 9 over time. Every single person in America will report your every mistake to the FBI since you revealed your intention to kill them and their children.
Quit abiding by your little fantasy scenario. it was ridiculous on it's face. You have no idea what I may or may not have now, and even if it was just me, I'll still go on, I will find a way. and if I can't then I will make sure it all burns. I am more than willing to lie, cheat, steal, kill, brainwash, and much much worse to accomplish my goal, not just because it is necessary, but because our enemies have no honor, as such, we must strip ourselves of all but rigid adherence to the most foundational tenets of natural law. You will find to your misfortunate that there are a lot more people like me than you think. There are far more of those who are willing to do what is necessary than you are, and they also willing to realize things aren't nearly as peachy as you claim. Nor will the collapse go the way you imagine it's not just gonna be a blip of interruption with jews telling everybody what to do and think on TV. it's going to go down, hard and fast. at first it'll just be survival, the cities will rip themselves apart, scattering to the winds as they begin to rot from natures ever encroaching growth. The already overcapacity and constantly at risk of exploding electrical system will likely be the first thing to break, if and when that happens here, the rest of the world will fall quickly thereafter, either to internal turmoil, or the fact that America was holding too many burdens and with it gone or at the very least completely unable to worry about external problems and thus no longer polices the worlds oceans. Then trade becomes impossible as the sheer number of pirate we were suppressing becomes abundantly clear. China is already overextending itself and couldn't even begin to fill that vacuum of power, and would probably immediately turn pirate themselves. Fuck they can't repair infrastructure vital to the lives of millions of their people, whether because it was built incorrectly or they have lost the knowledge to do so is immaterial how long until the seasonal rains collapse that stupid fucking dam and 400 million die? and that's just the tip of the iceburg.
Those fucking traitors do that shit now, and who cares what the FBI might be able to do? they're incompetent at best, and might not even exist in a few months.
>I mean, that's your goal regardless. You will not even get to kill all the Whites in America you don't like without power, nevermind the world. You won't even get to kill all the Whites in your state you don't like without political power. Genocide on the scale you lust after is impossible without a state under your full control. Which, btw, is impossible given that no one will ever help you and everyone will try to kill you and with good reason.
It's an ultimate goal, if it could could accomplished in one lifetime, excellent, but that's unlikely. We don't need to seek political power, it's completely locked off from our access today and even if it was possible, it doesn't sevre our purposes now. All we would need is to have a greater capacity for violence than anyone or any other group nearby, and then whatever we will becomes rather easy to make reality, through numbers, if not direct military capability, besides you don't have to let people know who you are until they go through your gates, and you certainly don't have to tell them who you are as you kill them.
From the first there is no possibility that we will take any State currently existing under our power, this was impossible in David lanes time let alone today, we must endeavor to create conditions where what we will can be made real, not easy but certainly doable.
>You will not because you revealed that you'll kill everyone everyone will help anyone but you.
That would only matter if anyone knew who I was, or that I am a national Socialist, fortunately they don't and I don't have to tell them, you see I don't have to share that with anyone until I have gained their trust and then it's not a difficult matter to turn them to my side, if they were willing to follow me simply because I'm stronger and smarter and better at surviving, and more willing to kill than anyone else around, they will be quite easy to turn away from what they need to be turned away from then it's just a matter of creating what we need to create will fighting off those who wish to take it from us and devising ways to increase numbers, through whatever means are necessary.
>You are severely mistaken. You think I am a pacifist. I am anything but. I am far more serious than you are about this. That is why I find your silly notions about killing nobodies for petty revenge to be laughable. 
I said nothing about pacifism, I said you're an idiot because you think we'll only be fighting the government and we'll have the populace living all hunky dory in the background willing to help us just because we oppose the government. Well, nigger, if that were ever going to be the case, Patriot Front would have 10000 members and would do actually effective things instead of retard rallies while following around literal enemies to our cause, or their sticker campaign which are already proven to qualify for RICO charges if the feds were inclined to actually take down their best piggies.
>I want White men in power. 
That's not going to happen in any way you have thought of, I can say that for certain. You keep talking about strategy, I don't think you understand what it means, not even remotely, because you're using the word as if it's "strategy" to not take shit you need, when you need it, strategically, it is of extreme benefit to target these lolberts, not just the old aging retards you keep claiming we're exclusively targeting despite being repeatedly disabused of that notion, becasue many have untold years worth of supplies, live out in areas nobody gives a fuck about, and are traitors to our people and would gladly tell the government or anybody he likes more than us, that I bought, or traded, or took supplies and where I headed after I got what I needed. Why leave such a risk alive? when I can kill him and kill two birds with one stone?
>Well, that's unfounded. Where do you get the notion that 2 million men want to wipe out our own race save for a few million?
I get it from long years of experience, and the results of certain studies I've read over years done by both independent researchers and The system and also from the popularity of many different things, I also run into too many people on Shit like telegram, who think just like me and they're too numerous and frequent, are they all perfect? Not by a fucking longshot, but I can see the pattern
>With what army? You have none.
Nor do you, your two hundred retard ralliers in PF don't count.
>To expand a little bit, if you had 30 of the best trained terrorists in history, you would still have nowhere near 0.000000001% of the forces needed to exterminate most of the planet including most White people.
You have 20000 characters with which to make your case use them, quit listening to idiots who don't belong, then again you don't belong either.
That's true, but nobody, aside from you fucking retards, ever said I was retarded. I have never overlooked how to hide who I am, nor how to get people on my side and make them into what I need, even if I don't have a miraculous army pop up out of nowhere, I don't need it, all I need is my mind, my body, and what I have taken the effort to learn and those tools I can find, to make it a reality.
There is no catch 22, you're just assuming that I'm as retarded as you are.
>>8055
I read it too and I really don't recall it saying that at all, but then again the scenario it painted is going to be very different from reality, the Organization is now impossible to create, even more so with the level of infiltration depicted therein, the media and government would collapse long before they could even hope to create squads of niggers to take guns from everyone, The populace is in a far worse state than was presumed in the books, and it even was worse than Pierce thought while he was writing it. You're literally living in a fantasy world constructed from tiny little straws you're grasping at and presenting as ironclad fact.

>>8061
>Are you convincing yourself that you have achieved something meaningful with far reaching repercussions just because you merely unleashed kilobytes of text upon an obscure image board?
This is stress relief for me, and this is how arguments have been done on here for several years going right back to the original /fascist/ on 8chan, as I said, if you don't like it, and don't want to put in any effort then leave

>>8066
>We don't need to seek political power
Without political power, you cannot kill a billion White people.
>All we would need is to have a greater capacity for violence than anyone or any other group nearby
Which you lack now and would especially lack when you revealed that your plan is to kill most White people.
>you certainly don't have to tell them who you are as you kill them.
In your senario, of some incredibly unlikely black swan event allowing a mad-max style collapse, you and your band of bandit killers would be the least likely group to take power.
1. Because you lack such a band
2. Because, even if you had 30 loyal men to follow you, you'd still be outgunned and outnumbered by the rest of the country and your own race that you foolishly aligned against you.
But I don't even want to waste my time entertaining a black swan event fantasy. it's unlikely. Even if it were likely, those who have don't demonstrate that they're just brigands will wield far more power than you would, even if you had a sizeable number of followers.

> it is of extreme benefit to target these lolberts
Okay. Apart from stealing their weapons, which is meaningless in the grand scheme of things, what long term strategic value does helping the jews kill non-leftist White people gain us?
How does making all White people actively take the side of ZOG assist us in overthrowing it?

>>8072
>>8066
You'll probably say something like
>to kill traitors
But if 95% of our race are traitors, and really, it must be more than even this since your definition of traitor is everyone not engaged in resisting ZOG, and if this is implacable, our chances of victory are basically zero. We will never be capable of beating ~100% of the population of the world + 95%+ of our own race united with the jews.
The entire purpose, the entire goal, the very first step for any ethnic or racial dissidents resisting genocide is: Split your population off from the enemy government

Then you come along and your agenda literally does the opposite, enticing Whites to view the jewish regime as their protector. Which, given your plan to exterminate them, would be accurate. You make jews look like the good guys.

>>8067
>This is stress relief for me
So it's all just roleplay. Okay thanks. No wonder WN never got anything off the ground.

>>8075
How do you get roleplay from stress relief? arguing to defend my beliefs is what relieves stress.

>>8077
Because this is clearly just you talking about your fantasies as you'd like them to happen rather than join the serious men who are working to figure out and then enact action that takes us there. And the most basic realization you come to when you get serious is that going around (talking about) killing basically all White people who are not currently resisting the System (which is almost 0 atm anyway), is the opposite of the way to actually take power.

In a country of millions, millions of White men are needed to set up an alternative to the regime and then to overthrow it. The idea that one guy will rambo-kill all of our enemies, then make new ones, and kill those too, is absurd and childish. Join the serious resistance talking club. There is no actual resistance atm. In order to win, we must figure out how to make lazy White nationalists organize, and undo the damage done upon the minds of our brothers. 

Eventually, fear and terror can be used to mobilize even those too cowardly or greedy to resist the system. However, without a serious political, social, and military force to conduct such actions, they will never happen.

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>8080
>Niggerpill's innovative tactics

The pro-White position has, in general, developed an naive and self sabotaging view of resistance politics. I had hoped to use this conversation to talk about it by asking >>8066 to elaborate on how we go from zero power to max power but he never actually tried articulating how beyond saying that he's just kill everyone in his way. In fairness, I could have been more friendly.

At present, zero White men are engaged in armed resistance against the regime. The objective for White nationalists is to overthrow the regime. Therefore, one must go from nothing to victory somehow. 
I believe it would be highly unwise to engage in armed resistance at this stage, even if an organized force popped into existence tomorrow. But if one did form and elected to initiate the armed struggle today, this force (of a moderately large insurgent brigade of 30 men or so) cannot physically overthrow the regime on its own.

Even if it were possible to somehow cause the regime to collapse, it's not possible for 30 men to establish a new government without widespread support from the group they are fighting for, which, I would expect, is White people. Right? That's the entire purpose of our struggle, yes?

Thus, the goal of an insurgent leader is to think long term: Will my actions today lead to White people withdrawing their support for the regime and investing it in our new, revolutionary body?

Three broad categories motivate men to resist regimes: Idealism, revenge seeking, and greed. 

One goal, which is outlined in the Turner Diaries, is to compel the regime to overreact to the insurgents' activities and take out its anger on innocent civilians. This drives a wedge between the people and the regime, isolating the regime as more and more civilians withdraw their support from it. Some will switch allegiance to the rebels instead. If the jews start to massacre White civilians in retaliation for an attack, their family will resent them and many will switch allegiance. Even those who do not directly support the rebels will still be assets by simply not reporting suspicious behavior to the police state.

If, however, the rebels do this, then it only further drives fence sitters over to the regime. With no support amongst the populace, every action becomes a defeat. Every mistake becomes crippling as every eye that sees them will report even mild suspicions to the FBI. Even if one of the cells knocks out power to the entire region, it would accomplish nothing so long as our people remained rock solid behind the regime. In exasperation, the rebels might start shooting more White libertarians, or White Christians, or even White nationalists. Each death only further isolates them and guarantees defeat. At that stage, even killing blacks would make White people hate them because they will understand that this terrorist group is the enemy of both blacks and Whites together. Indeed, by targeting Whites, this terrorist group actually helps unite all races together.

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This is much wiser than sitting around calling for total nigger death and then being sad that this doesn't happen. (Please read my argument before you call me impure)

As (you) know, the White Right is very good at talking about the fact that we ought to have a Revolution, but absolutely terrible at actually having one. Propose anything short of storming the Whitehouse an you get called a coward, but these brave "revolutionaries" never take the revolution beyond talking about the need for it. And we all know that if any of us actually did anything, we would receive absolutely zero support from these talkers.
We would die in prison or in a pool of our own blood and the only thing that would happen is neckbeards arguing over our fed status on 4chan.

Let us get a little bit more serious about this. How do we go from zero power to storming the Bastille? 
The fact is that if you hold everything short of total world conquest as a defeat, you will become debilitatingly depressed. It is impossible to go from no power to full power without hard work. Setting an impossible goal makes your cause impossible, which is immensely blackpilling for you and for everyone around you.
Spiritually, but not practically better is putting your money where your mouth is and doing something. However, even if you succeeded, which is in doubt, you will still fail to trigger the Revolution or the race war or the gun confiscation or whatever you think will happen because the moment you get captured, the threat is removed and the system no longer needs to do anything except televise your trial.

Instead, I propose we adopt the highly successful strategy of the left. Focus obsessively on a small range of reasonable demands, often framed in a way to cast opponents as ridiculous extremists. Hammer on these tangible goals until they are either attained or by denying them, the enemy casts themselves as unreasonable.
This is far more likely to lead to an armed revolution than talking about how much we need a revolution.

I will rephrase: Imagine two scenarios 
>I demand total world genocide of all shitskins, the US government is executed, all banks are seized.
Lol, okay, weirdo. Have fun with that
>I demand no more H1B Indians in this country, they're taking our jobs and impoverishing Americans
He does have a point there...
If we get this, we get this. If we do not, then it's further ammunition to use against the regime.

This is basic stuff, let's narrow down our demands and focus on that when evangelizing on the internet.

I intentionally did not voice my opinions on which issues deserve focus.
However, I believe that now that affirmative action anti-White discrimination has been lifted, the next target should be immigration. Mexicans are the most severe threat to Americans after the jews because they are used by corporations to enhance their profit and thus are "integrated" into the American economy. Even blacks are not as integrated this way as Mexicans and their birthrate is lower than Mexicans as well.
Of the attainable goals, demanding increasingly strict regulations on immigration is both popular with the masses as well as beneficial for our people.

Alternatively, we could go the accelerationist route and focus on justifying the existence of pro-White organizations. As the country browns out, these will become increasingly popular among normal White people seeking relief from the constant racial harassment.

While I agree with the concept, the ignorant masses will ultimately believe whatever the mainstream media tells them to, or whatever crap the hivemind on Reddit has updooted. That doesn’t leave us with much space to lobby within, but it would help to shift the overton window. Ultimately we can present whatever ideas we want, but unless the counterargument is indefensible or self-destructive for the other side I have doubts on it being successful. Discussing it publicly at least gets the request in people’s minds, and even if shot down it can be brought back up at a later date once the culture shifts and we try again. If the incumbent party ignores a righteous demand from the public, it could have consequences at the next election and splinter the traitorous party’s voter base. 

I think this thread has overlap with the redpill thread, as educating people on relevant topics makes them more receptive to implementing effective and meaningful action, instead of some dysfunctional lip service.

I’ll toss out some ideas of varying significance regardless;

>Military is deployed to the border with shoot to kill orders against illegals. This includes the navy and relevant air assets.
>Rainbow flaggotry is kept out of school. Fire teachers who try to keep proliferating it.
>Foreign individuals and businesses aren't allowed to own residential housing unless it's to house native workers or work visa immigrants.
>Extremely strict points based immigration policy, ideally from culturally similar (ie European descent) countries only. Must be able to speak the national language. Blacklist individuals that hold credentials from diploma mill schools, universities, colleges, etc, as well as hostile foreign religions.
>Open a Department of Remigration to assist those who don't want to live in the country in leaving. Muslims go to the Middle East, blacks to Africa, etc. I wish we could “remigrate” the marxists to a gulag.
>Removal of first past the post democracy systems in an attempt to undermine major parties that hate the populace, like the Democrats of the USA or the British Labor party. Replace with preferential voting. Media still has massive control over who get elected, but it’s a start.
>Removal of anything that is anti free speech, especially hate speech and blasphemy laws. Just a pushback on censorship and digital monitoring in general. Social media platforms that are for general public use shouldn't be allowed to censor so heavily.
>Something about allowing new media to compete with legacy media on legacy media’s turf. Imagine if you could watch actual history on public broadcast television instead of selective lies. Get our message in front of the ignorant masses.
>End foreign aid to countries that don't immediately effect your nation's well being. Maybe leave in  a provision for animal conservation to keep leftists happy.
>End aid to foreigners in the country illegally, that money should be spent on citizens. Possibly spend it on legal minorities instead of foreign ones to get more support from our opponents. Dem niggers were real mad their gibs were getting given away to illegals.
>Reject any "climate change" measures that aren't about developing technology, most countries are too small and irrelevant to make a measurable difference compared to China, USA or India's output.
>USA should remove that dumb fuel emissions law forcing auto makers to build oversized and expensive trucks.
>Something about reducing the number of whores in society. Woman doesn't get the man's stuff in a no-fault divorce?
>Right to defense and protection of one's self, home, business and belongings.

>yes goy, deradicalize yourself and come to the table to play the game that we nakedly rigged against you
This thread is subversive garbage.

>>8124
>the ignorant masses will ultimately believe whatever the mainstream media tells them to
You're correct. I do not believe we can convinced all or even most of our race to defend themselves. However, if we are 1% of the greater whole of our race, the other 99% are only lemmings by degree. Another ~10% or so likely can be swayed by reason, and perhaps a further 20% can be swayed if it looks like we're respectable, high status, or viably able to stand up to the regime. And then the 50% pure lemmings will support whatever side appears like it will win.
To put it in military terms, maybe 1% of a population are actively engaged. Another 10% can be convinced to take up arms. Once the rebel forces appear like they won't immediately get crushed, a further 20% may join them, safe in the knowledge that they can hide in the masses, without needing to show individual courage but instead taking courage from the group itself. And then, 50% more will join up once it appears that this side will win. Now we only have to kill 19% of the population.

> Discussing it publicly at least gets the request in people’s minds
Exactly.
Consider, "Diversity is our strength"
It is an idiotic slogan that only a jew would come up with. Yet, by virtue of cancerous repetition, they managed to turn a self contradictory slogan of zero substance into an argument that people actually cite as a self evident truth in debates.
Repetition is how you win over the 50% true lemmings.

All your suggestions seem great to me. Though I believe that focusing on climate change is a red herring. Even if we did win that fight, it isn't necessarily a racial debate (Yes, I know that fighting "climate change" only ever seems to hurt White people, but this take several sentences to explain so I feel that it's better to focus on things that are either racial or fighting degeneracy) Or maybe there is an angle that I have not considered here.
 
>>8125
Okay then. Articulate your alternative.

>>8126
The climate change bit is just a reason to escape from the grift and stop wasting time, money and resources on irrelevant trash. The technology might be useful at some point but for now it's mostly overpriced junk with finite components.

>>8125
There can be multiple ways to achieve the same objective. You can ask nicely, and when they say no, that's casus belli to burn it all to the fucking ground. Do prepare for violence as it is inevitable.

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I just realize that when in the future people will look at what our propaganda looked like, like that picture which regardless of its message is as cheaply done as it will be shat by history, they will understand how bad things were. Not saying that all should be Boticelli tier but.
>The fact is that if you hold everything short of total world conquest as a defeat, you will become debilitatingly depressed. 
Looks like it worked for the yids.
>the systum
made criticism of yids illegal in most White countries. But we spread the memes nevertheless.
>Instead, I propose we adopt the highly successful strategy of the left.
I agree. First things first, let's have yids support us because we will need their money to buy them out of academies, politics, medias, companies and banking.
>Focus obsessively on a small range of reasonable demands, often framed in a way to cast opponents as ridiculous extremists.
Example please because there's no reasonable demand that shouldn't be useful, and anything truly useful to us is probably going to be seen as evil or too radical. Watered down demands you say? I don't know how this is supposed to shift the Ovaryton vvindoe our way.
>absurd false dilemma
Or just simply ask for exclusively White countries where we write our own laws to protect ourselves and our racial interests and our White families, with economy culture and police forces subservient to Whites. There is nothing outlandish in this. Don't budge. This will force all our enemies, potential traitors, cowards and idiots to expose themselves.
Nevertheless I do agree that because of a lack of better options for now, we must insist on the most approachable steps, but the solution should be to have a White party and be the loudest anti-immigration group of al because our unashamedly pro-White message would be clear and people would know that if they wanted the purest anti-immigration dope on the market, they would know for a fact that we'd be the only one they could safely and reliably turn to, they could trust us to have the premium non-laced Whitest soma you could ever hope find and taste on that side of the neighborhood. Anything else would be cut with shit and taste like rot in comparison.
>hey what's in the powder mate?
Pure Truth.
>fuck me that's wild! and what's the ratio?
About 14/88.

>>8127
>. You can ask nicely, and when they say no, that's casus belli to burn it all to the fucking ground. Do prepare for violence as it is inevitable.
Wisdom.

>>8129
> it worked for the yids.
On the contrary, they moved slowly. Now that they have total control, they are accelerating their pace. And look what this got them: Us.

>simply ask for exclusively White countries
The trouble is that an exclusively White country will only be achieved through force of arms.
Are we prepared to do this? Nope. 
Therefore, acting like we're in a position to "demand" it is ridiculous. So what is the point of pretending? It's not a serious proposal. 
I am serious and I want you to get serious about this too. We need to figure out how the fuck we go from zero power to the strongest military force on the planet and there are steps from here to there.
One of these steps is organizing politically.
You say that taking the most pure stance and never watering it down for the masses "exposes the cowards among us"
Okay... and what does that gain us? Pride? Virtue signaling how pure we are?

We can sit here, in groups of 10, and pride ourselves on how pure we are. And we will grow old and we will die as alienated individuals with no power and the jews will remain in power forever and our race will die. But at least we never compromised.
Or we can hold our pure beliefs but also demand things that are also widely popular with our own race, and do it in a way that forces the jews to either give in or demonstrates that the regime is anti-White, thus galvanizing just a little bit more of our race against them. 
Then, we either get one piece of what we want (and then we move on to the next item) or we don't and then, with far more people behind us, we intensify the pressure. Someone gets martyred, and then it begins.

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>>8120
>And we all know that if any of us actually did anything, we would receive absolutely zero support from these talkers.
Wrong. Brenton Tarrant is my role model.
>if you hold everything short of total world conquest as a defeat,
Nobody wrote that. World Aryan Conquest is a long-term goal. The kikes and their minions have long-term goals, too: extinction of the Master Race, maintenance of fake equality, and enslavement of all men. Picrel is a goal we could achieve with only one generation of Hitler youth. 
>Instead, I propose we adopt the highly successful strategy of the left. Focus obsessively on a small range of reasonable demands, often framed in a way to cast opponents as ridiculous extremists.
The libtards never succeeded. The zionist occupation succeeded, and only because it went out of its way to make White people poor and none of its conspirators ended up kicked to death by children in public. Also, we should lay out our short-term and long-term demands, like men. Sneaky Nazi never won any arguments, even though his heart is in the right place. The fags, the feminists, and the niggers are not forward about their long-term goals because their long-term goals are horrible and unspeakable.

If the government wasn't making us poor on purpose, we'd have bought more preparations in response to rising shitskin numbers and activity. If we are to succeed, it's going to be because we stopped letting the government make us poor. It's a complicated topic, but I guarantee that a more anarchist economy would give White folks room to win and succeed with no risk of starting fights with shitskins. The White Race must collectively be intolerant of the government regulating us. We can regulate ourselves just fine.

>>8135
> Brenton Tarrant is my role model.
What have you done to support him beyond posting online?

>Picrel is a goal we could achieve with only one generation of Hitler youth. 
>a PNG of North America with some swastikas on it
Oh yeah? Hitler's Youth are all dead. No modern organization exists.

You seem to be spiritually in the right place but you're posturing. Your post is filled with slogans which I have seen on 4chan for ages and that's nice, but you aren't writing anything original, nevermind proposing an actual plan of action.
If America is ever going to become a no nigger zone, real people are going to have to make it happen in real life. Wishing for organizations to pop into existence, fully formed and peopled by 180 IQ supermen, is not going to turn America into your 526x612 PNG. In fact, it may only make you impotent.

After years of demanding nothing short of a no nigger zone, you will still not have it. Years will go by and you will end up in one of two places. You'll either become depressed and blackpilled from your complete lack of progress. Or you will become like me and ponder late into the night: How do we do it? How can we get to the no nigger zone with three swastikas? What is the step by step progress that will create that sweet, sweet png, but for real?

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The white birthrate issue will never be solved without the following:
>End no-fault divorce and the presumption of maternal custody. Unless the father is a raging alcoholic or some other sort of demonstrable degenerate, he should always get the kids and the house. Women currently file most divorces because they're retarded, never satisfied with anything, and face no consequences. Changing the laws back to pre-feminist, early 1800s standards will help prevent the communist destruction of the family.
>Similarly, discard the idea of "marital rape." Unless we accept that sex is a contractual obligation in marriage, women will continue milking their end of the bargain for all it's worth while providing as little as possible. It's in their nature.
>Finally, women should be largely excluded from the workplace. This would not only raise wages for men, but help us maintain our sanity and sense of self-worth in the face of constant henpecking and female uselessness when it comes to getting anything done. Anyone who has ever worked with a bunch of women knows what I'm talking about. They're even useless in a kitchen.
Until JD Vance or whoever implements these sorts of policies, I'm not getting married, having kids, or working more than the bare minimum I need to survive. This society isn't just a raw deal for men, it's an outright scam. Anyone who still chases after these whores is insane.

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>>8138
I should add: I have some faith in the potential of closed communities like return to the land getting a handle on women's behavior even if the laws remain how they are. Women are very susceptible to social pressure, so if they stand to be shunned by everyone they know for being whores, they may decide to act right.

However, I don't think every decent white person moving to some intentional community in buttfuck nowhere is going to be viable long-term. We need a presence in the cities to affect national politics, and of course electronic media like internet and television corrupt even rural culture. Therefore, we need to set our sights on changing the whole legal and moral framework of the country. Cuckservatives like Vance may not be based on the race issue, but we should certainly use them whenever their stated goals stand to benefit whites, intentionally or no. His promotion of common sense family values is one such case.

Regardless, I think I understand why the Muslims insist on doing honor killings even after they move to the west. Even 80 IQ niggers know damn well that preserving their culture depends on maintaining an iron grip on women's sexuality.

>>As (you) know, the White Right is very good at talking about the fact that we ought to have a Revolution
In minecraft. The word ought is never used lately that I've noticed.

>>8138
>>women should be largely excluded from the workplace
Everything you wrote is correct. The issue is that I do not believe that this is an achievable goal without political power first, either though force of arms or a gradual takeover of local powers in opposition to the jews. Obviously, the jews like it because it leads to adulatory (and thus destruction of White family unit) and big business supports it because it doubles their consumer base and halves the real value of labor, destroys labor unions, etc. 
But more importantly, is this achievable without an iron grip on at least local government? I am not so sure. As a long term objective, I am already on board. But as an issue that we can use against the regime, I don't see it working.
Consider if in a normal public setting; we demand women be excluded from workplaces. Obviously jews and shitlibs say no. Do they seem unreasonable to the 30-50% of our race that is somewhat lemming-like but not wholly brainless? I think this only gives feminists an easy win.

But ending no-fault divorce, THAT, I feel, has power. Normal people, even the wiggers, hate unfairness and men fear the power of the feminist lobby and judges. Ending divorce rape and no-fault divorce already has large support among, probably ~20-40% of men. Spitballing. If we could harness this organic support and focus it and make conservative politicians feel like they can score safe political points, we could start getting pro-marriage laws passed and be 1 step closer to removing females from the workplace entirely.

I'm also with you on isolated White communities. Theoretically possible (it does happen) but unless it leads to achieving political power, removing ourselves from society is a retreat, not an attack.
We must attack.
We must attack the regime in every possible way. Legally, economically, politically, socially, and (eventually) we must consider the final vector of attack.

>>8140
>ought too
>"we" should go prank the grid
>if only sOmEoNe would fire-prank a [structure]
All the same word to me. It means "I will not do this"

>>8157
I agree that ending no-fault divorce has the most support from within the current establishment. That's why I mentioned Vance in particular. I'm honestly surprised that the elites haven't come out against the phenomenon sooner. When even billionaires can't keep marriages together, you know something is going to change eventually.

As for retreating vs. attacking, consider the following. White people have already lost America, at least temporarily.

I know that's a controversial take, but I also think it's indisputable based on the facts. We are soon to be a minority, if we aren't already.

Recently Uncle Jared's podcast interviewed Aarvoll, the guy in charge of Return to the Land. One of the things that stood out to me was the idea that in order to even organise an attack on or alternative to the system in the first place, whites need a base of operations free from diversity and bureaucratic meddling. That, I think, is the true purpose of these isolated communities.

I really encourage everyone to read Sun Tzu if they haven't already. There's this attitude on the white right as if retreat is always dishonorable, but I strongly disagree. If anything, persisting in a doomed struggle for the sake of your own ego, or some Christian fetishisation of martyrdom, is infinitely worse.

We can still reclaim this country, but we have to start thinking in terms of multiple generations. The Chinks and Jews already do so, and that's part of the reason why they're kicking our asses. White civilisation is just as ancient and illustrious as theirs, if not more so. We have to learn how to "take the L" as the Zoomers say and move on as best we can.

>>8164
> White people have already lost America, at least temporarily.
I'll dispute that. I am an American, but there are many reasons to believe that America is key to solving our problems globally, and many reasons for hope, despite the demographic catastrophe. 

I do agree that a strategic retreat, like a ram pulling back to strike again, is not a dishonorable tactic. Certainly, if we can win by consolidating in a smaller region, ala the Butler Plan, I am all for it. But strategically, we simply must liberate America. If we consolidating in, say, Germany or even France and somehow took over, we would then need to deal with the final boss. The hegemon of NATO, armed with thousands of nukes, the most overpowered military force on the planet. As tiny little Germany, still likely dealing with severe internal opposition to our leadership, how could we do that?

I believe that we must neutralize the strongest beast first. Once ((( American media propaganda ))) and pressure from the irresistible US government is neutralized, most of the leftist influence will evaporate. Europeans can liberate themselves or even be liberated if they need help.

>>8131
>The trouble is that an exclusively White country will only be achieved through force of arms.
>Are we prepared to do this? Nope. 
>Therefore, acting like we're in a position to "demand" it is ridiculous. 
What is ridiculous is not preparing our people to want this. You cannot obtain anything if you don't get them used to see the world our way and this will not happen if we stay in the shadows and meander. No matter what, we will have to come out of the woods and stand for it. We will not gain any ground if we appear afraid of asking for what is natural to us, what is legitimate and necessary. Talking about it openly is the first step. We make our demands clear, we don't retreat, we only go forward.
>So what is the point of pretending? It's not a serious proposal. 
We must rally our people against a simple idea. White power, White lands. Period.
Anything else is a waste of time.
>You say that taking the most pure stance and never watering it down for the masses "exposes the cowards among us"
>Okay... and what does that gain us? Pride? Virtue signaling how pure we are?
It gains us visibility and respect. We shall demonstrate our pride and courage. Our message, loud and clear. A call for honesty. A call for truth and justice. This is what we want and what we need, there is no point arguing otherwise.
>We can sit here, in groups of 10, and pride ourselves on how pure we are. And we will grow old and we will die as alienated individuals with no power and the jews will remain in power forever and our race will die. But at least we never compromised.
Compromise all you want coward. I've read enough of your blackpilling. You will be with us or against us.

>>8137
>let me ponder two more decades

>>8157
>We must attack the regime in every possible way. Legally, economically, politically, socially, and (eventually) we must consider the final vector of attack.
Hence we need at the very least a pro-White party that exposes the kikes, and we should gather a network from there that covers everything from work, life, culture, economy and law. If we can't even manage to pull this off we will never make it anyway.

>>8171
>What is ridiculous is not preparing our people to want this
Brother, that is my entire purpose.
>Talking about it openly is the first step
Did you not read the OP. I have explained why it is more effective to make "reasonable" demands to push things further "right" rather than sit and petulantly demand things we cannot possibly get at the moment. It's depressing and makes us look weaker than we are, which is saying something.
>It gains us visibility and respect.
It makes us look weak. Demanding this is basically demanding the overthrow of ZOG. Which we will only get once we are militarily strong enough to do so through force of arms. So what is the point?
I think there is some misunderstanding. I am not saying: "Abandon our position that a White America is the end goal." I am saying that we will achieve far more success if we rally behind a few reasonable demands that people will actually get behind and push things further right slowly.

This is simply ridiculous. You have absolutely jack shit to enforce your ideas. While the left wisely pushes things slowly but surely in an anti-White direction, you're sitting here, having accomplished absolutely nothing, calling me a coward because I want to push back. 
You may say, I am pushing back. I am demanding 100% of what I want
But you know and I know that that will never happen unless you have the strength to enforce it. You lack that strength. So how do we gain that strength? By rallying more of our people and weaponizing ourselves. And how do we do that? By actually scoring victories and pushing back against ZOG.

No one is going to want to be pro-White if all we are is a bunch of losers who go around whining that we don't have a no-nigger-zone with three swastikas. We need to achieve meaningful political victories, even if they are small.

>>8173
>we need at the very least a pro-White party
Yes. That is my point.
But how do we build this if all we do is set ourselves up to fail every single day?

>we should gather a network from there that covers everything from work, life, culture, economy and law. 
>If we can't even manage to pull this off we will never make it anyway.
This is exactly what I am talking about. "We need," "we should," and what is the goal you have set for ourselves? It is a good long term objective. Or even mid term objective. Let's build a White party. I am with you!
But we lack one and we need a strategy to galvanize our people into building one with us. That requires us actually interacting with politics. And the way to do this is to make demands that people will see as reasonable and achievable.

>>8125
keyboard warrior

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>>8174
>Did you not read the OP. I have explained why it is more effective to make "reasonable" demands to push things further "right" rather than sit and petulantly demand things we cannot possibly get at the moment. 
You assume that because something cannot be obtained now, we should not voice our requirements already for said goal. I strongly disagree. We must provide a clear vision of what our most noble end goal is. Once people will be used to such blatant violent truth they will possess a tool of comparison against the piss poor requests voiced by the neutralized parties. They will see how all the other parties are clearly wasting people's time and lying. By forcing the debate closer to our views all these other parties will be weighed against our views and ideals.
You also think that by watering down our demands they'll get satisfied. You could argue that more moderate demands would be easier to get fulfilled. But you have no proof of that and worst of all you have no guarantee that we could even escalate. More importantly, watered down positions would not be exclusive to us, which means they could be espoused by the other groups which are Jewish tools, therefore the same yids could maintain control over what needs to be done. They would certainly make sure that even these modest demands would be met with difficulty.
Meanwhile our attempts at enlightening the White population about our dramatic situation could never happen because we would have accepted the fake ceiling that filters out the radicalness of our positions which are entirely based in unadulterated truth. More over, we would again be losing precious time trying to wedge a toe in the door when we actually need to smash it open. We absolutely need to force into the minds of people the fact that radical solutions are necessary now, not tomorrow. Diluted messages will never get us anywhere and will never put enough pressure on conservatives because they will always look for the less tumultuous method. They will want endless talks, calculations and concessions. We need conservatives to be sucked into a vacuum generated by the sheer implosive force of our ideas, otherwise they will stay rooted where they are and won't move. It's not up to us to shift left by adopting softer positions, it's up to them to move in our direction. We must be that strength.
>It makes us look weak. 
That is wholly absurd. You cannot look weak by being stronger than anyone else and shining like a beacon of pious light in a sea of darkness. Being weak is accepting to act like conservatives and that takes us away from a revolution of the mind. What must be done is to shame these people and expose them as the little stupid cowards they have always been for more than a century. But contrary to Europe I have a strong feeling that America will never manage to break free from the usual anti-fascist heroic WW2 myth, it has become too much of a cohesive cultural backbone to the average American citizen.
>Demanding this is basically demanding the overthrow of ZOG. Which we will only get once we are militarily strong enough to do so through force of arms. So what is the point?
Where and when will you get that army if you are not capable, willing and brave enough to call for a White nation fully subservient to our racial needs?
>I am saying that we will achieve far more success if we rally behind a few reasonable demands that people will actually get behind and push things further right slowly.
Giving you for a moment the generous benefit of plausibility, how long do you think this would take? Here's what will happen: our positions will be forgotten and we will find ourselves stuck in the quagmire of half arsed policies in a system that will be very efficient at keeping people happy with the little they are given. Nobody will be willing to risk the very little relative improvements they got, for a simple reason. Radical ideas can only work in critical times, but if you let the Jews drop the pressure we will not reach that point where really desperate people are willing to listen to us.
>This is simply ridiculous. You have absolutely jack shit to enforce your ideas.
It is our duty to find the means to acquire power to enforce them. But we won't find anyone willing to join us if we don't even explain our ideas, if we don't even proudly stand for them and if we have no doctrine nor anything else to use when we try to reach for people. We don't want and should not espouse a milquetoast station. There is no point moving closer to ZOG and play according to a rigged game, an act which will corrupt us, when we know full well that we will never be given a chance to grab power anyway. So instead we must make our intent clear and that's it. It must create friction and tension. Whatever must happen will happen. What the hell are you afraid of? We are right and we have all the evidence in the world to support our position. We have all the statistics, all the curves for the next two decades, all the historical substance to tap into anytime anyone would doubt our words.
>You may say, I am pushing back. I am demanding 100% of what I want
Negotiation 101: always demand more than what you want or can have, not less.
You have already lost otherwise.
>But you know and I know that that will never happen unless you have the strength to enforce it. You lack that strength. So how do we gain that strength? By rallying more of our people and weaponizing ourselves. And how do we do that? By actually scoring victories and pushing back against ZOG.
And how do we score victories against ZOG? By "rallying more of our people and weaponizing ourselves."
A perfectly circular argument you have here. Which incidentally will never happen if you can't even name the Zionist tyrants. Thankfully free speech is still so lenient that you can do all of that without once calling for murder or the destruction of the USA. You can even appeal to International Law and remind everyone that a given people of a particular culture is entitled to be masters of their own destiny and fully enjoy the sovereign power to guarantee their safety. But who the hell talks like that? Who has the courage to say such basic things despite it being totally legal, legitimate, sane, fair and natural? You don't even want to go there. Hence you will not make it.
Most importantly, you will never command respect if you are afraid of the power of your own ideas and if you abide by the very rules you utterly despise, lying to yourself in the vain and stupid hope of having that very system throw you a bone. People will see you for what you have become, it will be transparent. Masses may not be smart but they recognize brazen bravery.
>No one is going to want to be pro-White if all we are is a bunch of losers who go around whining that we don't have a no-nigger-zone with three swastikas.
Then give up already. Nobody said we need to have flying swastikas, but the purpose of obtaining White territories must be correctly articulated and delivered to the masses.
If you're too weak to demand the existence of White lands, go play GOP games with your vaguely whitish nation and her 9~11% patriotic browns and mutts, because you will simply NEVER have the nerve to have them removed while you're surrounded by a large jerking party all too happy to settle on a good enough situation and way too compromised to be able to move further.

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>October 28. Last night I had to do the most unpleasant thing that I have been called to do since joining the Organization four years ago. I participated in the execution of a mutineer.
>Harry Powell was Unit 5's leader. Last week, when Washington Field Command gave his unit the assignment of assassinating two of the most obnoxious and outspoken advocates of racial mixing in this area-a priest and a rabbi, coauthors of a widely publicized petition to Congress requesting special tax advantages for racially mixed marned couples - Powell refused the assignment. He sent a message back to WFC saying that he was opposed to the further use of violence and that his unit would not participate in any acts of terrorism.
>He was immediately placed under arrest, and yesterday one representative from each unit under WFC-including Unit S- was summoned to judge him. Unit 10 was not able to send anyone, and so 11 members-eight men and three women- met with an officer from WFC in the basement storeroom of a gift shop owned by one of our "legals." I was Unit l 's representative.
>The officer from WFC stated the case against Powell very briefly. The Unit 5 representative then confirmed the facts: Powell had not only refused to obey the assassination order, but he had instructed the members of his unit not to obey either. Fortunately, they had not allowed themselves to be subverted by him.
>Powell was then given an opportunity to speak in his behalf. He did so for more than two hours, interrupted occasionally by a question from one of us. What he said really shook me, but it made our decision easier for all of us, I am sure.
>Harry Powell was, in essence, a "responsible conservative." The fact that he was not only a member of the Organization but had become a unit leader reflects more on the Organization than it does on him. His basic complaint was that all our acts of terror against the System were only making things worse by "provoking" the System into taking more and more repressive measures.
>Well, of course, we all understood that! Or, at least, I thought we all understood it. Apparently Powell didn't. That is, he didn't understand that one of the major purposes of political terror, always and everywhere, is to force the authorities to take reprisals and to become more repressive, thus alienating a portion of the population and generating sympathy for the terrorists. And the other purpose is to create unrest by destroying the population's sense of security and their belief in the invincibility of the government.
As Powell continued talking, it became clearer and clearer that he was a conservative, not a revolutionary. He talked as if the whole purpose of the Organization were to force the System to institute certain reforms, rather than to destroy the System, root and branch, and build something radically and fundamentally different in its place.
>He was opposed to the System because it taxed his business too heavily. (He had owned a hardware store before we were forced underground.) He was opposed to the System's permissiveness with Blacks, because crime and rioting were bad for business. He was opposed to the System's confiscation of firearms, because he felt he needed a gun for personal security. His were the motivations of a libertarian, the sort of self-centered individual who sees the basic evil in government as a limitation on free enterprise.
>Someone asked him whether he had forgotten what the Organization has repeated over and over, namely, that our struggle is to secure the future of our race, and that the issue of individual freedom is subordinate to that one, overwhelming purpose. His retort was that the Organization's violent tactics are benefiting neither our race nor individual freedom.
>This answer proved again that he didn't really understand what we are trying to do. His initial approval of the use of force against the System was based on the naive assumption that, by God, we'll show those bastards! When the System, instead of backing down, began tightening the screws even faster, he decided that our policy of terrorism is counter-productive.
>He simply could not accept the fact that the path to our goal cannot be a retracing of our course to some earlier stage in our history, but must instead be an overcoming of the present and a forging ahead into the future-with us choosing the direction instead of the System. Until we have torn the rudder out of its grasp and thrown the System overboard, the ship of state will go careening on its hazardous way. There will be no stopping, no going back. Since we are already among rocks and shoals, we are bound to get scraped up pretty badly before we find any clear sailing.
>Maybe he was right that our tactics are wrong; the reaction of the people will eventually answer that question. But his whole attitude, his whole orientation was wrong. As I listened to Powell I was reminded of the late-19th century writer, Brooks Adams, and his division of the human race into two classes: spiritual man and economic man. Powell was the epitome of economic man.
Ideologies, ultimate purposes, the fundamental contradiction between the System's world view and ours-all these things had no meaning for him. He regarded the Organization's philosophy as just so much ideological flypaper designed to catch recruits for us. He saw our struggle against the System as a contest for power and nothing more. If we could not whip them, then we should try to force them to compromise with us.
>I wondered how many others in the Organization thought the way Powell did, and I shuddered. We have been forced to grow too quickly. There has not been sufficient time to develop in all our people the essentially religious attitude toward our purpose and our doctrines which would have prevented the Powell incident by screening him out early.
>As it was, we had no real choice in deciding Powell's fate. There was not only his disobedience to consider, but also the fact that he had revealed himself to be fundamentally unreliable. To have one of us-and a unit leader, at that-talking openly to other members about trying to find a way to compromise with the System, with the war just beginning… There was only one way to deal with such a
situation.
>The eight male members present drew straws, and three of us, including me, ended up on the execution squad. When Powell realized that he was going to be killed, he tried to make a break. We tied his hands and feet, and then we had to gag him when he began shouting. We drove him to a wooded area off the highway about 10 miles south of Washington, shot him, and buried him.
>I got back a little after midnight, but I still haven't been able to get to sleep. I am very, very depressed.

>>8176
>We must provide a clear vision of what our most noble end goal is.
I never argued otherwise. What we need in addition to this are achievable goals. If you need to travel from point A to point B, you must take many steps to get there. That is my position.

>you have no proof of that
On the contrary, the conservative block is now 100% on board with removing Affirmative Action, and they did. We actually won that fight. Now let's move onto the next one. Always attack.
> the radicalness of our positions 
In 100% seriousness, what is radical about our positions? Yes, we do want to overthrow the regime, but why? Because they are committing genocide. Resisting genocide of your own people is probably the most moderate, basic position you can take.
> we would again be losing precious time trying to wedge a toe in the door when we actually need to smash it open.
This is where I make the greatest critique: You lack the power to smash that door down.
We are weak at the moment, with no political power or influence. Ironically, the people who are doing the most to overturn anti-White laws in the real world are conservatives. They have literally scored more White victories in the past years than us. Trump is actually moving to end birthright citizenship. This may actually happen but it wasn't necessarily due to us.
>You're pro Trump!!!!
I am pro-White. If Trump does something pro-White, even in isolation, why the hell shouldn't I praise good behavior? 
It encourages more good behavior whilst making our enemies lash out at his base and accuse them of being racist. This is inoculating them against the fear of the smear.
> it's up to them to move in our direction
Not without any power, it isn't. Why would anyone adopt our positions when we, apparently, cannot win even small fights (because we don't start any fights)

> You cannot look weak by being stronger than anyone else
At present, we are weaker than marxists. I am genuinely worried every day that Trump will turn on us and issue orders to round us up. And because we are so alienated from the great masses of our own people, most of them would cheer this on.
We are in a very precarious position with no clear path to victory.

Also, you keep insisting that I must do either only calls for world genocide of niggers, or basically parrot conservative ideas.
I argue no such thing.
I am arguing that, in addition to our ultimate goal, we must focus on achievable steps to remove non-Whites from power.

>>8179
I believe this has already been quoted ITT. This is not similar to what is being debated at all.

1. The Organization in the Turner Diaries is an organization of tens of thousands at the very least. They are engaged in an armed struggle against the regime.
I keep informing you that we have no such organization and are not engaging in armed resistance.
You do not present a path that leads to armed resistance. You are only proposing that we take the most unachievable goals and fail at achieving them over and over because we have no possible way to do so. There are intermediate steps between holding no power and having a massive insurgent army.

2. The context of this fictional event is that the armed struggle already has begun. That's the final goal, the last step before winning it. The purpose of focusing on achievable goals is to ratchet things inexorably in the direction of armed struggle. Once it has been achieved, there is no longer any need to engage in peaceful politics (insofar as that being the main focus)

3. I'm surprised no one ever quotes the seemingly far more applicable scene where the Organization focuses on the most "extreme" rhetoric to weed out the faint of heart from the Organization. That is immediately a far better argument against my position than this.
Even so, it is not a good argument because the Organization already existed as a legal political group before it went underground. How did it get to be this way?
By doing exactly what I am advocating, albeit, according to the book, unsuccessfully. It only went underground after the Gun Raids. 

And furthermore, Dr. Pierce said in later speeches that the Turner Diaries was not a realistic book and that was not his intention to lay out a blueprint for Revolution. Indeed, he much preferred Hunter as this lays out achievable goals for lone wolves. In Turner Diaries, the Organization is far more organized and top-down structured than would be feasible in a police state like America. The communications thing would be nice, but probably impossible to keep secure. 

And lastly! The entire reason why the Organization was so successful in the first place as outlined in the Turner Diaries was because it made the mistake of repeatedly taking extreme positions that alienated the public. It confiscated basically all guns, it hosted violent black mobs and race riots, it deputized black goons to rape and harass White people, etc. It made the very mistake you wish us to make.

>>8181
> because THE SYSTEM made the mistake of repeatedly taking extreme positions that alienated the public.

As an addendum, there are two groups. 
One has as their goal "total nigger death."
But that's illegal and none of them are prepared to start killing niggers. So they meet and meet and meet and achieve nothing. What is the point of this group?

A second group has as their goal the same final goal, but focuses on the far more achievable goal of pressuring conservatives and conservative politicians to pass a law that actually benefits White people. Perhaps it is a law penalizing corporations from hiring spics or a law that removes CRT from the public school curriculum. This is far more energizing than meeting in a basement and whining that they cannot achieve their unrealistic goals. They will likely succeed and then move onto the next goal, gaining experience and cohesion as a result. And if they fail, now we have yet more ammunition to use against the regime.

>>8179
>We have been forced to grow too quickly. There has not been sufficient time to develop in all our people the essentially religious attitude toward our purpose and our doctrines which would have prevented the Powell incident by screening him out early.
The screening part is very relevant. I believe only the equivalent of our fundamentalists should truly be sent on such missions, and they should all be correctly trained. In other words, while we should grow our militia, we would precisely screen and meticulously pick the most adapted individuals for the underground activities that clearly stand outside of the legal realm, and no overt connection ever shall ever be found between any part of the organization and these active cells.
We shall have tiers, and in this story, the Powell profile should be found standing in one of the intermediate tiers. An individual who would back off the moment he'd understand that violence could or would make things worse for us and should therefore be abandoned is not an individual we would want anywhere close to a platoon, even less a secret operative. This is the kind of people who would eventually support us from the civilian fringes.
Don't grow too quickly. Be methodological and routinely screen each individual. Make sure the doctrine is perfectly understood, even if in broad strikes only.

>>8182
>A second group has as their goal the same final goal, but focuses on the far more achievable goal of pressuring conservatives and conservative politicians to pass a law that actually benefits White people.
Conservatives care about their money and their safety, and I don't know which one comes first wit these rascals.
We can't threaten their bank accounts, but we surely can threaten their safety.

They only begin to concede a few bits here and there on security the moment it hits their own prosperity. They don't fancy negroes touring their suburbs and killing them on the spot. But once the negroes are tamed, they go back to their normal routine. What is the threat doesn't come from the negroes only? The conservatives will certainly say this goes too far and will once more side with the System for protection. This will be their first reaction, the easiest one, to cry mommy and beg for a renewal of their safety and the price of their soul. But we would not back down. At this point it becomes clear that the harassment should become constant and I certainly believe it would be easier to maintain that kind of pressure in much Whiter states because conservatives would be surrounded by righter Whites. Operations to off very obnoxious figures from the opposition would need to be kept for deeper activities within leftist thus System territories. Floats would have to be coordinated for this. This is why we must begin to secure the Whiter areas so they can act as our bases of operation, as safety havens to which we can retreat and even hide if necessary. Which means making these regions hazardous even to police forces as the value of blue skin will sharply drop.

Wodensson had plans to write a novel about Trebor's early life and I wish he had time to write it because his insight would have been valuable, even if disguised as fiction. It is after a work of fiction that changed his own life.

>>8181
Regarding the US and those "gun raids", it would be one huge trigger and it's obvious that ZOG has done everything humanely possible to convince people to forgo their rights to bear arms. Considering the rise of violence everywhere this is not a discourse that will get through many ears. Not even a radical false flag event would suffice.
I doubt it would ever happen and I equally doubt that even pushing ZOG hard would have the government enact such a retard measure. Assuredly it would leave it to states to decide, at most.
>And furthermore, Dr. Pierce said in later speeches that the Turner Diaries was not a realistic book and that was not his intention to lay out a blueprint for Revolution.
He was right and I would add that in another article he also stood against the very dubious and super sketchy mass shooting-like operations because he understood that there is a time for everything and certain paramilitary activities within a specific context can easily backfire.
Despite being a fiction I think his book has value because it's a narrativist take on what essentially is a political, social and perhaps pre-wartime simulation. For that it is useful and has people talking its numerous aspects, from the most realistic to the most outlandish.
What is clear is that properly targeted and meaningful lone wolf activities only begin when the Organization is pushed underground and becomes physically active, with enough men to count on and a solid doctrine to point to when clarifications are needed.
>Indeed, he much preferred Hunter as this lays out achievable goals for lone wolves. In Turner Diaries, the Organization is far more organized and top-down structured than would be feasible in a police state like America. The communications thing would be nice, but probably impossible to keep secure.
Then again, turning to The Brigade and its associated books would prove useful, but we should also consider looking into testimonies of real historical events.
For now we may really need to focus on Codreanu's for example or books that describe what happens during the collapse of an western country because it will teach us what people will do and expect during such times, it will also give us an idea of how difficult it would be to organize and safely shift resources about.
>[The System] confiscated basically all guns, it hosted violent black mobs and race riots, it deputized black goons to rape and harass White people, etc. It made the very mistake you wish us to make.
I don't understand what you mean by this.
I will also notice that the free ride given to negroes during BLM was pretty much one of those very radicalizing moments and it barely scratched the reality of what would happen would the savages be given a complete freedom to lash out at Whites, as described in Rockwell's White Power.

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>>8180
>I never argued otherwise. What we need in addition to this are achievable goals. If you need to travel from point A to point B, you must take many steps to get there. That is my position.
Can't reach a destination if nobody knows where and what it is.
>On the contrary, the conservative block is now 100% on board with removing Affirmative Action, and they did.
Please. Jews simply reduced the intensity by a very few degrees of the most obnoxious portion of the anti-traditional forces and we all knew it would happen because the most militant side of the affirmative action is also the most anti-natural. We are only observing a stepping back from decades of unrelenting AA that has allowed tens of millions of foreigners to multiply. Just like fight against abortion is meaningless to our cause if it's just to fall back on a blind protection all God's cherished life that allows millions of brownoids to spawn on our lands like some damned creep. All you are seeing is a little pressure release by barely returning to the normal of yesterday, which depending on the topic can be just about fifteen years ago or as far as a few decades back. All the freaks who have wormed their way into our institutions won't be eliminated. And even if it were to happen by the US turning almost despotic and puritanical, it still would be according to Jewish law and oversight. You want to play the political democratic game and be careful with your own words when there are even less Whites today than there were fifty years ago. You won't get anywhere until you start talking about White Lands.
This is why you don't understand >>8179 
>>[Powell] simply could not accept the fact that the path to our goal cannot be a retracing of our course to some earlier stage in our history, but must instead be an overcoming of the present and a forging ahead into the future-with us choosing the direction instead of the System.
>In 100% seriousness, what is radical about our positions? 
Bad faith won't get you anywhere. You do know for a fact that anti-Jewish, racist, pro-White ethnoseparatism with a complete racial territorial segregation and the affirmation of the quality of the White race, and certainly its clear superiority over brown ones, is the absolute antithesis of our current multicultural sick and jewed society. it is the Great Satan in that theme park called ZOG World.
>It's Okay To Be White
doesn't cut it when we need to say
>It's Okay To Have A White Nation
because the latter implies an application of the Fourteen Words.
>I am pro-White. If Trump does something pro-White, even in isolation, why the hell shouldn't I praise good behavior?
He hasn't done anything pro-White so that's a non-sequitur. At best he's only done something a bit less pro-brown and only under the condition that we become even more submissive to Israel. He is also moving forth with a further unification of the upper half of the American continent, which means opening even more the borders to non-Whites. He has not stepped in to totally stop non-White immigration. His friend Musk is asking for hordes of *cough*capable and skilled*cough* pajeets to settle in. The commie Trudeau has split Canada open to be invaded by chinks and pajeets too and Trump wants to dissolve the border between the US and Canada.
So you're talking nonsense.
Even if 100% of immigration were to be stopped, legal or not, it would simply not come anywhere close to solving our issue until we'd cut off true White States from that dying disgusting Beast. Remember that the Noahide Laws are already loaded and ready.
>Not without any power, it isn't. Why would anyone adopt our positions when we, apparently, cannot win even small fights (because we don't start any fights)
You don't even know if Whites have no power of their own volition at all, because you haven't even tried to run this scenario in your head. You automatically assume that even a pro-White party would simply not get anywhere so we must bow down to "reasonable" pale requests.
Mind you, conservatives don't have any power at all, Jews decide for them. Jews have felt the need to open the pressure valve because of the very radical opinions that people like us have defended online and offline. We have been the underground pressure that the Jews are forced to acknowledge and it is about time we accelerate things and come to the surface because there is just that much we can do underground and it's not sufficient, at least as long as it stays legal.
As I said we already have all the information we could ever need, the injustice is plain to see, vice is everywhere and our replacement so certain. It's about time we coalesce all of this latent power into some true intelligible and bright force for all to see. We shall carry this white light and bring it to our kinfolk.

WHITE LANDS

>>8185
>We can't threaten their bank accounts
We could... 
>I don't know which one comes first wit these rascals.
Here is the crux of the issue: There are three broad types of White people in this country besides us. The first group, the largest, are the conservative types. This includes libertarians. They range from "leave me alone so I can make muh money." to idealists. There is a lot of natural overlap with us and it has been conservatives whom our speakers have focused on converting.
The second group is the uncaring mass type wigger people. They're interested in TikTok, shiny toys, and not being engaged politically. I view these people as hopeless. What could possibly motivate them to throw all their degenerate shit away to live in constant fear that you will wake up dead?
The last, smallest group are the shitlibs. These pathologically anti-White people are, I believe, unconvertable so long as the mass media is jewish. Once we seize the media, the shitlibs will all become Nazis except for the diehard degenerates. 

Tell me I am wrong here. Show me evidence to the contrary.

>>8189
Doing real gun raids would be idiotic. Not saying you're wrong but I am saying that I hope that they do it. What a blunder.

> I think his book has value because it's a narrativist take on what essentially is a political, social and perhaps pre-wartime simulatio
100% with you, brother. I have read communist literature as well and I must say that the Turner Diaries is the most revolutionary piece of literature in the world at the moment. It discusses revolution on a scale and to a degree that even communists do not in their literature.

> turning to The Brigade and its associated books would prove useful
Again, I agree. 
Dr. Pierce, being born in 1933, learned his Art of War from observing Vietnam. Therefore, his rebels are fighting a rural revolution similar to Maoist China. Covington on the otherhand, learned his Art of War by observing the Troubles in Northern Ireland. I almost worship Dr. Pierce, and I follow his idea of vanguard White party politics. However, I fully admit that Harold had a firmer grasp of what the war will look like.

>I don't understand what you mean by this.
I typo'd, thus nullifying my arguments. >>8182

>it barely scratched the reality of what would happen would the savages be given a complete freedom to lash out at Whites
This is the hidden motive behind my proposal. I am at heart an accelerationist, but I have given it serious thought and concluded that skull masks and menacingly standing near pylons isn't effective. Instead, I would like to exacerbate racial tensions by scoring multiple small victories "for the racists"
This will likely trigger more BLM tire chimpouts

>>8191
>Can't reach a destination if nobody knows where and what it is.
No, but you cannot reach a destination if taking small steps is considered cowardice.

I appreciate your greater point here. Should we seek to resist White genocide if doing so turns down the heat? 
I believe that it is beneficial because
1. It moralizes our side
2. It makes the arrogant enemy go insane. An insane enemy is good.
3. The prime directive is to organize politically until we have the strength to attack the System directly. As I argued, sitting alone and pinning for an unachievable goal will not accomplish this. Organizing around small but stead achievable goals will.
We must organize or we will lose.

>Bad faith won't get you anywhere.
There is no bad faith. White people being pro-White is the norm throughout all White history.

>At best he's only done something a bit less pro-brown 
Praise this while denouncing zionism. 
>moving forth with a further unification of the upper half of the American continent,
I don't buy this grandstanding. Trump isn't serious. 

>Even if 100% of immigration were to be stopped, legal or not, it would simply not come anywhere close to solving our issue 
Would it be an improvement?
Yes.

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<Ay carumba, amigo! why you gotta be so anti-HUWITE or sum sheit ese, why can't we just work together holmes?
>Who de fukk ar' you? Sta radish v Srbija?
<Huwhy yo' killin' dem' Bosnyians, ese? Don't cha know dat WE were all ONE race, da HUWITE race? Dey share da same skin colowah as YOU, mayne! We'z sapposed to be a-past DAT 'ETHNO-NATIONALISM' stuff, ese.
>Peder, get da fakk off mah saight.
<Oi amigo, listen.. da "Huwite pozzilion" is where.. Huwite pepioo.. do stuff or something.. Now go donate to our grorious leadah Tommy's bank account and maybe then, he would expand on what it really means or somethi-ACCKKKKKK!!!
You Patriot-Fags really do live in a funny and delusional world, you are deracinated and confused Anglos as whole. Your only actual racial conception is a big blob of vague "White Identity", which instead of developing an actual particular ethnicity with soil and blood. (as Americans themselves are primarily an Anglo-Saxon ethnicity with some mixed elements of Irish, Germanic, Italian and Slavic.) They chose to engage in the mental faggotry possible by worshipping and emulating literal Freemason ideologues from the 18th century AND shilling their worldview on this very board.

The actual White race or more accurately, races of Aryan descent are a collection of sub-races or ethnicities clustered around the continent for all their histories, to reduce them into a single blob ignores the historical realities of which various nations had to fight for their spot.
Europeans killed each other for eternity, it's not something you can easily change as it is innately rooted in our biology, it is one of many laws that Nature imposes as to which your own ancestors killed each other for socio-religious and racial tensions.
Deal with it.

This is very typical effeminate behavior that you all are indulging in. aside from the "Kill da christcucks" poster. While his behavior regarding about Christian lemmings would seem unhinged on the surface, it's not without reason.
He just happens to come from the nation where two of the most popular Christian (or Christcuck) denominations, Catholics and Evangelicals are hell-bent on importing niggers and shitskins all over the world to America endlessly. Which for some funny reason that your "organization" seems to bend their asses to instead of righteously attacking them as racial traitors and cancer, for all this talk of being "Pro-White" in this thread.
And speaking of cancer, it can indeed spread aggressively to the body if not treated quickly, the surgeon will have no choice but to amputate the limb if left for too long. The cancer patient, that is your "own people" want to strangle themselves. They will convince others to do the same by peer pressure and they will attack you madly if you try to stop them at all.
You don't have any actual choice in this matter.

By the way, do not try to defend your political cult of personality here, you will get BTFO so hard that you will spam "MUH SEEJFAGS HAIL THOMAS" all over this board just to divert the attention of the overwhelming evidence against you and your ilk. But you cannot censor this board like you did with Cuckchan /pol/.
PFOG has no power here.