/v/ - Video Games

>>269428 (OP) 
Nobody wants to play a hyper masculine or sexy female, OP. Get on with the times.

>>269443
Rayman died because of those annoying shits.
The Mario and Rabbids games, for instance, would have been far better as Mario and Rayman against the rabbids.
Playing as Rayman, Globox, Ly, Betilla, The Teensies and Barbara would have been far better than playing as Rabbids cosplaying as Mario characters, which was lame.

>>269428 (OP) 
>Viola
Is that what her name was? In any case she's the reason I didn't even try emulating 3 despite loving 1 and to a lesser extent 2. Nero was a bit of a fag but tolerable, but she just looks like she'd be exhausting to be exposed to.

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>>269458
Bayonetta 3 was a huge disappointment.
Not even the parts when you play as Bayonetta are that good, and then they shove this shit annoying character down your throat.
And if tha wasn't enough by the end of the game, they tell you that Viola is the new Bayonetta.

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>>269428 (OP) 
>Ninja Gaiden 4
What's extra insulting and ironic about this circumstance is that if KT wanted a character who is the exact opposite and to contrast against Ryu, they already had Yaiba.

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>>269470
>Yaiba
Apparently, Yaiba and related characters belong to con-man's company that developed the game and not Tecmo.
Too bad because Miss Monday would have been a far better DOA character than "Marie Rose but with a blue wig" in DOA6.

>>269490
>Apparently, Yaiba and related characters belong to con-man's company that developed the game and not Tecmo.
You got a source for that? Because the game's copyright says that KT owns everything related to the game.

Nero was just fine. The issue was DMC4 being half a game with no time to establish him as more than a kid who yells all the time, which sadly bled into DMC5. I'm convinced that the story of 5 had to be wrapped up around the last third which is why, once again, Nero's growth was just an afterthought, but at least he finally got his DT which he should've had since 4.

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>>269506
>Nero was just fine.
No he wasn't.
He was derivative and lame.
Nero was just "If Dante was effeminate" or "Dante but designed by Tetsuya Nomura"
Dante didn't need any replacement nor "successor".
DMC went to shit right after Kamiya left.
DMC2 should have been about Dante and Trish hunting demons together like the DMC1 implied, and the series should have been just that, without all that Izuno faggotry like Nero, that ugly bitch Nico and all those shit characters he made.

>>269513
The art director was Koki Kinoshita not Izuno.

>>269513
>No he wasn't.
>He was derivative and lame.
>Dante didn't need any replacement nor "successor".
I agree.
I hate this shit tendency some Jap devs have to think that at some point the well established and beloved main character needs to be replaced by a "heir" and then the new character/s ends up being a dumbed down, lame version of the OG.
Solid Snake didn't need a replacement, Dante didn't need a replacement, Bayonetta didn't need a replacement, and Ryu Hayabusa doesn't need a fucking replacement.

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>>269516
>Solid Snake didn't need a replacement, Dante didn't need a replacement, Bayonetta didn't need a replacement, and Ryu Hayabusa doesn't need a fucking replacement.
You forgot Terry Bogard with Rock Howard (Hell, the entire Fatal Fury roster, i would argue)

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>>269517
Raiden was so bad that they had to turn him into Grey Fox to redeem the character and make him cool

>>269513
>"Nero was just "If Dante was effeminate"
What the fuck does that even mean? 
>"Dante but designed by Tetsuya Nomura"
I don't see enough belts for that, not to mention he is what a punk-ish Vergil would have been visually in his youth, considering Dante's appearance in 3 and that they're twins.
Nero, much like Dante in his rebellious phase in DMC3, was a kid without a dad but superhuman powers he didn't want and he happened to be Vergil's son without knowing, and just happened to end up raised in a cult that worshiped his bloodline, unbeknownst to him. He could've had an interesting arc and development that would set him further apart from both his dad and uncle, but instead they had to settle with "angry kid with a sword" because money and time ran out. 
While I liked some of the approaches 5 took, I wish there had been actual physical confrontation between Dante and Nero, specifically when Dante told Nero he was Vergil's son. That could've set him on a path to uncover his dormant demon instead of receiving a phone call from Kyrie and suddenly he is superman flying through the air.

>>269516
>Solid Snake didn't need a replacement, Dante didn't need a replacement
Neither have ever been replaced. Revengeance was a spin-off and Raiden is neither a literal nor spiritual successor to Snake. But I wouldn't put it past Konami to shit the bed on that, to be honest.

>Bayonetta didn't need a replacement
I agree with the statement itself, but considering the retarded mutliverse premise of Bayo3 I wouldn't be surprised if they just remove any trace of Viola in 4, should that game ever happen. I mean, the game they released right after that was a game about child Cereza solving puzzles, no trace of Viola there.

>>269517
>>269520
I always liked Raiden

>>269522
>Neither have ever been replaced. 
But those were the intentions, then the backlash happened.
Revengeance was fine as a spinoff, is when you shove "the new inferior character" in the main series to replace the better og that it becomes a problem.
For instance, speaking of Ninja Gaiden,  if the focus is indeed on this new faggot, then they should have made a spinoff like Yaiba rather than call it Ninja Gaiden 4.
>What the fuck does that even mean? 
Some japanese devs are obsessed with twinks the same way they are with idols and high school settings.
They see traits like a strong jawline and other masculine traits as "being old" for some retarded reason.

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In which situations do you guys consider new character as replacement? Let's just say both the established main character and new character take up 50% of the gameplay, so their shares are equal, would that be considered replacement? There are couple of examples that come up to my mind like Zero from Megaman X, or other playable characters in Sonic games, yet none of them feel as "replacers".

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>>269530
>Let's just say both the established main character and new character take up 50% of the gameplay, so their shares are equal, would that be considered replacement?
When that happens (I just read that Hayabusa will "also" be playable in Ninja Gaiden 4) i always feel that the devs' intention is replacing the MC but they want the player to "get used to it"  before completely removing the og, or relegating it to a secondary role, like NG4 seems to be doing.
From what i read, it was Platinum (to no surprise) that pushed for a new character while Tecmo insisted to keep Hayabusa too, and they reached this shit "compromise".

>>269530
>In which situations do you guys consider new character as replacement? 
When the old one becomes unplayable, be it death or some other reason. Personally I fucking hate Apollo Justice and Athena Cykes in the newer Ace Attorney games. They started taking up more time than Phoenix for less fun gameplay and more retarded gimmicks.
They're not full replacements but it felt like a gradual easing you in to accept them as the new protagonists.

>>269529
>when you shove "the new inferior character" in the main series to replace the better og that it becomes a problem.
Definitely understand that feeling as my example above shows. Maybe I was ultimately just hopeful that Nero would become more of a constant protege or be sent to do work under the DMC business name elsewhere like in DMC5 but you get to play both in equal parts. 

>They see traits like a strong jawline and other masculine traits as "being old" for some retarded reason.
That actually reminds me of how Reuben had to tard wrangle Itsuno on DMC3 to help him appeal to a western audience, he talked about that at some convention iirc. I'll miss him as Dante.

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>>269532
>Personally I fucking hate Apollo Justice and Athena Cykes in the newer Ace Attorney games. They started taking up more time than Phoenix for less fun gameplay and more retarded gimmicks.
I am not particularly familiar with the Ace Attorney series but that's exactly when this shit becomes a problem.
>They're not full replacements but it felt like a gradual easing you in to accept them as the new protagonists.
Usually that comes from people with a giant ego who think "nah, the mc sucks, here's my version of it, it is far better" not unlike Donte and that Tameem faggot, who even mocked Dante and the fans with that white wig scene in DmC, as if he wanted to say "if you prefer the og over my shitty gay version you are stupid!"

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I TURNED MYSELF INTO A NIGGER, MORTY!
I'M A NIGGER MORTY, HAHA!
I'M NIGGER PROPHEEEEET

If Crytek had writers with an IQ above freezing point, they would have made Alcatraz a tragic character who had to constantly battle against the suit attempting to take total control over his body and mind, and coming out on top in the end.
Instead, the writers had the suit take over his mind with an AI that not only believes it is human, but a nigger too. So much so in fact that it somehow changed its very appearance to that of Prophet. Bravo Nolan Crytek.

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>>269536
Speaking of nigger characters that killed a series...

>>269532
I'm gonna play the last game in the OG trilogy soon, and I've been concerned about the games after that because Apollo looks like an annoying bitch of a character who was intended to replace/supersede Phoenix Wright and it sounds kinda like that from what I've been hearing.
Athene Cykes has a good character design so that's pretty much the only reason I'd be willing to give those Ace Attorney games a chance at all tbh.

>>269554
>Apollo looks like an annoying bitch of a character who was intended to replace/supersede Phoenix Wright and it sounds kinda like that from what I've been hearing.
Why some devs feel the need to pull that shit is beyond me.

>>269428 (OP) 
I feel itsuno only mad Nero, because he felt insecure about DMC being Kamiya's series as long as Dante was the face of it and everyone loved it for him. I still think he fixed him in DMC 5, especially in terms of playstyle, and his dynamic with that dumb bitch. But still not gonna live up to Dante.

>>269536
>they would have made Alcatraz a tragic character who had to constantly battle against the suit attempting to take total control over his body and mind
This, and the half life nigger, are the only two nigger characters that I don't hate.
>crysis
>plot
The series is just a bunch of tech demos for a narcissistic company trying to shill it's game engine.
The company floundered when they started console first development.

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>>269557
>Itsuno felt insecure about DMC being Kamiya's series as long as Dante was the face of it and everyone loved it for him
That is plausible, and could be the reason.
It would show Itsuno's fragile ego though, like:
<Who cares about the original vision, now it is MY series, and i do whatever i want with it, including changing the main character!

>>269554
>Apollo looks like an annoying bitch of a character who was intended to replace/supersede Phoenix Wright and it sounds kinda like that from what I've been hearing.
His role was greatly reduced after 4.

>>269554
I liked Athena as a character, she is very cheery despite having trauma, but her gimmick is fucking retarded as shit.

>>269557
>>269559
I'm not sure how true that could be. After Capcom pissed away any goodwill people had by butchering DMC2 he came in and save it with 3. God only knows what 6 would look like now that both Itsuno and Reuben won't be there anymore.

>>269536
>casually kill off Nomad off screen for absolutely no fucking reason at all
>sideline Psycho as a side character that does fuck all
Prophet should have died and stayed dead while nomad and psycho bro it up

>>269517
Raiden's not nearly as bad and annoying as Nero. Nero had the potential to be cool after he seemed to chill out a bit at the end of 4 but by the time 5 rolls around he's the same old annoying cunt that he was before.

>>269567
I'd be a cunt all day if another cunt literally stole my arm.

>>269559
>>269562
Yes I’m a long time fan and played all games since release and do consider it an Itsuno series. He made 3 and 5, even 4 was good enough. We also have to remember that Kamiya made DMC 1 alongside Mikami using Resident Evil 4 assets since it was a prototype, he even admitted that he never liked horror, and all the devil and scary shit was RE leftovers. But people keep sucking kamiya off and wanting him to make DMC 6

>>269584
>all the devil and scary shit was RE leftovers
That's what i loved the most about the first DMC.
It was a mixture between an action game and a survival (gothic) horror.
Dante himself, while he used sarcasm and cracked a joke here and there to ease the tension, he wasn't the overly goofy douchebag Itsuno turned him into.
The first DMC is still the best one for style and atmosphere.

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I wouldn't go as far as saying thay she ruined the series, but she definitely overstayed her welcome, probably she should have never got into the game.
>Pink hair, autistic behavior, generic moe shit
Just bad character design, she doesn't even fit DOA.

>>269603
>Pink hair, autistic behavior, generic moe shit
Thank you, I'll check out her game

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>>269608
>Thank you, I'll check out her game
>Pretending not to know Dead or Alive

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>>269610
The first DoA game came out 29 years ago, also note the lack of a period at the end of the post's sole sentence.

>>269612
>The first DoA game came out 29 years ago
STOP

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>>269613
In the first decade of the DoA series (1996-2006), you have:
<Four mainline games (1-4)
<Two remakes (++ and Ultimate)
<Two spin-offs (X1 and 2)
Meanwhile over the past 19 years, all we've gotten are:
<Two mainline games (5 and 6)
<Two spin-offs (X3 and Dimensions)
<Five expanded rereleases (Paradise, Plus, Ultimate, LR, X3S)

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The only way we'll ever get a halfway decent Metroid again is if they kill her off at the start of the next game.  The character of Samus Aran has become a massive roadblock to game design.

>>269610
I just wanted to express that "Pink hair, autistic behavior, generic moe shit" is a good thing but couldn't bother wording it in some fancier way.

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>>269622
>The character of Samus Aran has become a massive roadblock to game design.
Elaborate
>>269630
>generic moe shit
>good thing

>>269632
>>generic moe shit
>>good thing
Why would it be a bad thing?
Maybe you should stop breathing since breathing is too generic.

>>269632
All the stupid narrative and character baggage introduced since Fusion and Zero Mission has been a massive inhibition on developer creativity.  Every game has to be about the Story of Samus Aran now and consequently some kind of shitty remake or intermission where developers have to pigeonhole themselves into stories and abilities that could only work before Fusion.  Naturally, nobody wants to touch the hole Sakamato wrote himself after Fusion.  Metroid is obsessed with Samus Aran now in a very bad way.  If you want to make a good Metroid game you need to go back to a faceless space warrior that the player can easily project themselves onto so the game design can speak for itself instead of Fuckamoto's waifu.

>>269636
Elmo was good until it was used too often. Too often means spam. Soyjacks are generic too also, how big is your folder, lover of typically spammed things?  
>be zoomer
>never seen the anime/manga but looks good
<people will like my post, this is what I look like!
Trans tier behavior that. Shallow and superficial trans behavior. There's a reason Azumanga Daioh is better than Lucky Star, but you'd not know this, would you?
>>269639
>projecting into a girl's role
Video games in general died around gen six.

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>>269636
>Why would it be a bad thing?
Because it's uninspired and boring.
It's shallow character design, simple as that.
Also pink hair are retarded.
<if you think devs should put some effort into designing their characters you should stop breathing lol
Nice lack of arguments, faggot.

>>269653
>It's shallow character design
It's literally just a normal attractive character design like all the other girls.

>>269603
>>269490
I can agree with these, you cant replace your waifus.
>>269653
>Because it's uninspired and boring.
>It's shallow character design, simple as that.
Which is a lost art nowadays. I would rather have stock anime girl face with exaggerated body proportions instead of
"realistic" mocap face design
subversive character design
"unique" character design
blatant propaganda character design

I can't name an attractive western AAA female design made in the last 10 years I like. Normal/Standard/Cliche/shallow work because at least something attractive comes out of the pipeline. When people start straying off the beaten path it always leads to ugly as shit.

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>>269667
> I would rather have stock anime girl face with exaggerated body proportions instead of
>"realistic" mocap face design
>subversive character design
>"unique" character design
>blatant propaganda character design
<It's either the most effortless, bland and generic "kawaii" anime shit or ugly globohomo ((( western ))) games' trannies, nothing else.
Anon, i...

>>269669
Well, Rock and a hard place. Which would you choose?

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>>269669
>reddit brackets
how to tell someone has no argument with one weird trick

>>269679
>echoes are now "reddit brackets"
Contrarianism is one hell of a drug. Either that or you're a hopeless newfag.

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>>269682
Considering they came from a "I'm going to pretend to be pro-white to grift money from people but I'm too pussy to name the jew outright" youtuber and became "popular" well after imkampfy had turned 8/pol/ into a branch office of /r/The_Donald, I'm fairly sure you're the newfag here.

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>>269679
>>269682
>>269684
>it's another episode of "argument devolves into 2 newfags pretending to be oldfags"
Kill yourselves

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>>269685
2007 was 22 years ago, this shit's all relative now.

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>>269679
>reddit invented the echoes
You are moron.

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>>269684
I can't recall their exact origin but I do know they were and continue to be a handy, practical tool for naming ((( those ))) who hate to be named.

>>269700
>I can't recall their exact origin
Oldest I remember is they were used in a browser extension that detected jewish names and put them in brackets for easy noticing.

>>269704
The order is
>wannabe "based" eceleb
>reddit
>Coincidence Detector / 8/pol/
>internet digestive system
>8chan diaspora - (you) are here

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>>269687
I'm afraid it simply isn't so, at least not meaningfully. Think of it like a nihongonese school honorific. Oldfags are always going to be the "senpai" to the newfags "kohai" even if the former is 60 and the latter is 59. Newfags will always be newfags.

>>269715
By that logic the newer newfags treat the lesser newfags as senpais as well, which is retarded. Accusations of newfaggotry could easily be avoided by simply lurking which is what anons should refer to first before yelling newfag at anyone and derailing threads.

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>>269679
>getting butthurt over ((( echoes )))
How to tell someone is jewish with one weird trick

>>269685
I always noticed this kind of derailment in multiple threads, it's one fag who doesn't want you to use the site.

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>>269740
t. one fag who doesn't want you to use the site

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Is Nero better than pic related?

Tekken
>Lily
her rivalry with Asuka ruined Asuka, who could've had an actual personality instead of being le goofy Yuribait character
>Lars
feels like he only serves to give Alisa some rekevance

>>269428 (OP) 
>Nero
I was thinking about him specifically when I opened the thread kek
Remember it was suring the emo/Visual Key era

>>269433
>t. Western game dev

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>>269793
>silver
Both Silver and Shadow are shit,  and the results of SEGA being creatively bankrupt.
<Let's just make again Sonic but this time with a different color scheme
That's how you get shit like Silver and Shadow
The only good character design since the original Mega Drive games is Rouge The Bat
>>269817
>Lily
>her rivalry with Asuka ruined Asuka, who could've had an actual personality instead of being le goofy Yuribait character
I agree, the rivalry was fine at first but it got old fast.
It seems that many Tekken characters got stuck in the same storyline since Tekken 5/DR.
I also wish Asuka would deal with something else for once. apart from being raped by Feng Wei
https://inv.nadeko.net/watch?v=5yri6K9ZIQM
>Alisa
Her story would have been cooler if they actually made her some sort of female version of Frankenstein's monster, like if Dr. Bosconovitch gave his sick daughter a full robotic body, transplanting her brain or something ala Robocop rather than just making an android the resembled her.
Also i think she would have looked better if they made her a full redhead instead of going for that awful half-pink-half-red hair color, and gave her a better costume.

>>269817
> emo/Visual Key
That's why Nero is garbage.

>>269793
Nero is at least enjoyably edgy and arguably the best attempt at "new pretty boy protagonist" around. Silver is just a dork who says "it's no use" a lot, though Sega's done a good job of leaning into that in recent years.

>>269853
>"new pretty boy protagonist"
That's exactly the problem with Nero.

>>269848
Dante was emo until DMC4
<no he wasn’t 
Yes he was.
He was angsty and looked Iike one in the first two games
He looked like one, and while having more levity he still was angsty in 3. In some was more so than before
It’s only in 4 where he has no real trace of emo in him.

Not saying it’s bad, just pointing out the objective fact that he was.

Nero was more of a punk than emo. That is to say, an obnoxious tryhard faggot.

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>>269853
I am surprised people actually dislike Nero in DMC4. In the fifth game it really wasn't as enjoyable and I missed his edgier outfit and hair from the fourth game. He was mostly opposite of Dante, where Dante is clearly cocky and does not take things seriously, Nero had straight up anger issues throughout the whole campaign and was slowly resembling to Vergil. Even his combat theme in 4 more or less sounds angrier than the rest. Too bad 5 shits on the whole music theme of the series by bringing pop music for no fucking reason.

>>269793
>Silver hate
Silver is undoubtly the biggest wasted potential of the series because sonic team and their incompetence gave themselves PTSD over anything resembling 06 or unique ideas. It's the Shadow (after 06) that ruined the series by rehashing the same story over and over again, completely forgetting his character development in his own game. God forbid if Shadow has an actual personality instead of being dickhead for marketing purposes

>>269823
>https://inv.nadeko.net/watch?v=5yri6K9ZIQM
lmao is this some fanmade porn
actually it was one of my grips with the character because her initial motivation for entering the KIFT was to avenge her dad, but
>she never comes across Lei, who is also after Feng
>never gets her asss handed to her by Feng which would be the perfect growth she needs, as a new immature character who seems to be permanently stuck in her teens
>never comes across Jin again after 5, even tho it was hinted that her Kazama blood could do stuff against the Devil Gene
>only ever chases after Lily xD

And Alisa was horrible from the get go, I mean even the whole idea of a female cyborg isn't that appealing to me (no I don't think GITS is cool or profound)
Going the Alita route may have been good but only because she's human originally.

>>269860
>Dante was emo until DMC4
Depends what you mean. He didn't take himself seriously at all, he was very goofy and took everything lightly, munching on pizza as he shot demons left and right. That was to contrast with his Chuuni brother, and it feels like Nero took the worst aspects of both
Plus he wasn't needed anyway because there was already an established dynamic with the duo, and Lady had to be put in the back seat to make room for Nero and Kyrie

It's like the devs wanted to add a new generation but were afraid of getting rid of the old characters so we end up with Nero.
And imo DmC explains a lot about the artistic direction they had in mind, it's like someone among the execs desperately wanted to overhaul the graphic identity of the licence to avoid falling into irrelevancy. I didn't watch Arcane (yuck) but it feels like DmC was an Arcane that came out too early for the masses, what with the whole aesthetic and omnipresent theme of mental illness

>>269867
>Too bad 5 shits on the whole music theme of the series by bringing pop music for no fucking reason
their biggest sin imo

>>269853
>I am surprised people actually dislike Nero in DMC4
He simply had no reason to exist.
They should have given his moves to Dante as an alternate playstyle and be done with it.
He looks like a Final Fantasy reject, Dante was manly and elegant.

>>269428 (OP) 
Nero was OK. The real problem with DMC4 is that Dante got awfully Flanderized.

>>269874
>He looks like a Final Fantasy reject, Dante was manly and elegant.
They both look like Nomura fags.

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>>270478
>They both look like Nomura fags.
DMC1 Dante certainly not, DMC3 Dante got the Nomura treatment, with Justin Bieber hairstyle on top of that.

Speaking of shit characters, i don't what was Tecmo thinking when they designed this shit character.
He looks like a generic low-ranking thug from Streets of Rage or Final Fight, those you beat up by the dozens.

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Mandatory.
Dumbest inclusion in fighting games' history.

>>271845
This feels like one of those things that would never happen if it weren't for Fortnite.

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Doesn't really fit the criteria but I still can't get over this design

>>269428 (OP) 
Something you seem to not understand is that 1, the Japanese don't worship masculinity and have different standards of beauty than the West and 2, people like variety in characters. The irony also being that you sound vaginal and whiny about the subject, if we're being honest. Dante has his own kind of charisma and I'm not mad about Yakumo despite being a die hard Ninja Gaiden fan and Ryu player in DOA because I want Ninja Gaiden to grow and keep adding to its setting. 

This is such an unnecessary and awkward thing to be butthurt about.

>>271847
Pizza Cutter sword is best sword. I'll defend Marche and Luso to the death. I'll blame square's incompetence and changing direction towards action games like FFXVI and FFVII remake that they didn't even try to work on TBS games. 
>>271865
> the Japanese don't worship masculinity
Tons of japanese media was inspired by 80s action heroes that were considered masculine by western standards. Contra, early JoJo, Dragonball Z, etc.
> different standards of beauty than the West
No, all heterosexual men like big tits and big ass on an hourglass figure. If you're implying that viola is a beauty standard that men desire then you need to get the fuck out. Nobody wants a pixie haired, featureless dyke.
> I want Ninja Gaiden to grow and keep adding to its setting. 
I'm gonna go full Kathy Newman on you and say
SO WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS
you want it to expand to a wider audience, not realizing that mindless expansion for all demographics will lose the identity of the series.

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>>271871
>all heterosexual men like big tits and big ass on an hourglass figure
I like a flat chest and small butt on a small body.
Does that make me a homosexual?

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>>271871
>I'll blame square's incompetence and changing direction towards action games like FFXVI and FFVII remake that they didn't even try to work on TBS games. 
I agree. Everybody working on FF nowadays has completely lost the plot on what people liked about FF in the first place. I hate 14 but at least it fucking has what resembles stuff from actual final fantasy games.
It's kinda like disney and star wars. The soul's been ripped out and now it's just a race to copy other media and slap it on a framework without realizing what made people like the series in the first place. 
I don't think FF16 flopping is gonna help either. They're definitely just gonna keep pumping this cinema-wannabe trash out.

>>271879
It'll make homosexuality in your future more likely.

>>271889
Baseless accusations of homosexuality and opposition to lolicon are innovative tactics.

>>271865
>I'm not mad about Yakumo 
>despite being a die hard Ninja Gaiden fan and Ryu player in DOA
This is the usual bullshit by shills who want people to think they are 'legit' fans:
<"I am a huge fan of the series, i played them all numerous times each, and i welcome this new MC/change in the game's identity. >because I want Ninja Gaiden to grow
<I don't care if this series loses its identity or gets dumbed down as long as it sells more copies
If you really liked the series you sure wouldn't want it to turn into some AssCreed-like slop.
Why would a fan even give a fuck about a game pandering to people who never gave a fuck about it?
And before you say "it will sell more copies and  devs will make more of it" selling more usually means that the devs will start pandering to the "new fans" who never liked or cared about the series and not those who want the game to stay true to its roots.
Just look at the damage the "new Resident Evil fans" did to the series.
Now Crapcom is pandering to these retards who expect RE to be a TPS.
>This is such an unnecessary and awkward thing to be butthurt about.
It's not "unnecessary and awkward" but perfectly legit concern that Platinum (the same devs who developed that dumpster fire that was Bayonetta 3) wants to change Ninja Gaiden to their shitty tastes turning it into sonething it is not.
I mean, if the first thing Platinum wanted to do once tasked with the development of NG4 was replacing the MC and ony added Hayabusa back after Team Ninja demanded it, it means they don't have respect for the series and there's plenty of reasons to be worried.

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>Tons of japanese media was inspired by 80s action heroes that were considered masculine by western standards.
And? That doesn't discount the differing cultural standards. Do you think Cloud from FF7 would've been such an iconic protagonist had he been some generic meathead to appeal to Western audiences? East Asian culture in general views youth as attractive and Goku and JoJo characters aren't "masculine" in the way that Westerners view masculinity - hairy and gruff. They are clean cut, charismatic, athletic and handsome. Pretty boys are a much bigger deal in East Asian society. 

>No, all heterosexual men like big tits and big ass on an hourglass figure.
Now you're just speaking for other people. Maybe a guy wants a grey mouse and not your curvy bimbo. 

>If you're implying that viola
I never mentioned this character because I haven't played any Bayonetta games (they're in the backlog).

>you want it to expand to a wider audience, not realizing that mindless expansion for all demographics will lose the identity of the series.
Absolutely not, but you're not wrong for jumping to this assumption as I didn't clarify myself. When I said "grow", I meant in terms of lore and expanding the story. Any franchise that becomes successful will invariably and inevitably face corruption, so all we can hope is that the difficulty of Ninja Gaiden gatekeeps enough to keep the lowest common denominator crowd out. 

>>271949
>This is the usual bullshit by shills who want people to think they are 'legit' fans:
KT is not shilling on a board that gets a couple posts per hour. Use your brain. 

>If you really liked the series you sure wouldn't want it to turn into some AssCreed-like slop.
I don't, but this "every character needs to be heckin' masculine as fuck" is cornball shit. Honestly, Dante and Ryu aren't even that "masculine" to begin with; they're just athletic guys. They're not bounding with muscles or dripping with testosterone like some gorilla. They are regular handsome men. 

>It's not "unnecessary and awkward" but perfectly legit concern that Platinum (the same devs who developed that dumpster fire that was Bayonetta 3) wants to change Ninja Gaiden to their shitty tastes turning it into sonething it is not.
Like I said, I haven't played Bayonetta 3, but I do half-agree that there is legitimate reason for concern. I say "half" because I'm honestly surprised to be getting new NG games at this point and I'm glad that the series is being resurrected - to what ends, we will see. 

As an aside, I will say that this whole masculinity argument is silly because I don't think you need to be stuck with one archetype and one character. I liked playing as Raiden in MGS2 and it gave the series a fresh take and made the return to Snake in MGS3 more enjoyable; he also gave us Rising, which was cool. New characters aren't bad and we have new characters because we don't want to keep playing the same things over and over. It's a matter of how new characters are implemented that's important. Gears 4 did the same thing, trying to add another generic buff masculine dude as the main character and that shit fucking sucked. Gears 5 kneejerked in the opposite direction with Kait because they realized that JD is just a vastly inferior Marcus Fenix, but that failed as well. Dante and Raiden are not bad characters and masculinity doesn't automatically make a character good and vice versa. I will reserve my judgement for little Yakumo, but I'm honestly glad there's a new protag for 4 because I've already played 3 games as Ryu, along with countless hours of him in DOA. 

I'll just cap this long-winded post by saying that I agree you both have reasonable concerns that I understand and sympathize with; the sentiment isn't wrong. The only thing we differ on is the corny masculinity worship and resistance to variety.

>>271975
>>271949

>>271975
>Any franchise that becomes successful will invariably and inevitably face corruption, so all we can hope is that the difficulty of Ninja Gaiden gatekeeps enough to keep the lowest common denominator crowd out
There's more to the NG series than just the "difficulty". For example, NG3 was also abysmal in it's story, from turning Ryu into a fallible character (Which is "true" to the earlier 2D games, specifically the Sega games, but not Raisin-Man's Xbox version of the character) to making the military a central inclusion in the story (Because they copied X-Men Origins: Wolverine). Then there's also the style of the gameplay. Platinum games are typified by their dodge mechanics, but the same isn't true of the NG series as it's a whole other style of character action gameplay. So, no, making the game "difficult" is not going to keep out all of the bottom feeders (Especially once we see all the article talking about how it's the "Dark Souls" of the character-action genre, and people latch onto the game just for that).
>KT is not shilling on a board that gets a couple posts per hour.
Yes, they are. As h8chan, and all of it's offshoots, are upstream from modern internet discourse.
>Honestly, Dante and Ryu aren't even that "masculine" to begin with; they're just athletic guys
That's typical masculinity. The "testosterone like some gorillas" that you see typified by Swarzeneggar and The Rock are roided-up fakes.
>I will say that this whole masculinity argument is silly because I don't think you need to be stuck with one archetype and one character.
Yes, you do actually. In the case of MGS, you had been playing the same character for over a decade by that point, so Kojima plopping a pretty-boy on everyone, with his big introduction being him running around a military base in his birthday suit, and having him hijack the story, was the last thing people were expecting and had a right to be outraged. Similar thing with Gears 4. People had been playing Marcus for three games by that point, so them plopping a brand-spankin' new character was not going to fly. Although the rather ironic case of the Gears series is the the REAL fourth game in the series, Judgement, starred an entirely new cast and I have not heard a single bad thing about it. So clearly there's more to introducing a new character as the lead in the series.

And if I may provide the precise reason, it's that you cannot introduce a new character, and have him replace the old characters, without attempting to move heaven and earth in making the audience give a shit about this new character. Why would anyone want to play as Raiden when they can play as Snake (Especially when you start the game playing as Snake)? Why would anyone want to play as Nero when they can play as Dante (Which you do for half of the game's story)? And why would anyone want to play as Yakumo when they could play as Ryu (Which KT had to obligate Platinum including from the start)?

You bring up the case of Metal Gear Rising, but remember that THAT game was a follow-up to MGS4, not a sequel to MGS2.

>>271975
>Do you think Cloud from FF7 would've been such an iconic protagonist had he been some generic meathead to appeal to Western audiences?
Yes. I would say that, not because of cultural standards, but because of the FF, Square Enix, and Sony branding and marketing backing it. You also posted a guy who was hated for replacing a character that was inspired by a gruff dude in the 80s, and was a gruff serious dude in the game. If there was a japanese audience that loved him off rip then okay, but posting raiden is not convincing me. Even if raiden is liked now (because he is not subversive commie media/propaganda), he still had to go through several design changes and arcs for the MGS fanbase to be cool with him.
>Now you're just speaking for other people. Maybe a guy wants a grey mouse and not your curvy bimbo
If you're going to post saying someone is jacking off to a mouse then I say you're speaking for other people. We can go with the "not everyone" , "there is someone for somebody out there", but look at every playboy, miss universe contest, etc. .  Look at all the fanart made of videogame characters and they somehow never reduce the breast size or the ass size. There is a reason that Bayonetta was on the cover and not Viola. not to say that you are using her as reference but there is a universal attraction to a certain type of woman. Sure, men will want variety and fuck all types of women but if there is a favorite type that is put on top then it is big tits and ass on an hourglass figure.

>>271989
voice acting makes all the difference  wapanese raiden is better

>>271990
*SIGH*

>>271986
>There's more to the NG series than just the "difficulty". 
This is true and I agree with the rest of what you said. Anyway, I'm just trying to because I am excited about all the new NG games. 

>Yes, they are.
They're not. There are no Japanese dudes sitting in office going "we need to find a microscopic internet forum to waste our time on when we can reach a bigger audience on literally every other site". Barely anyone even knows this place exists. Maybe they're shilling on Reddit. Maybe even 4chan. On zzzchan? No. 

>That's typical masculinity. The "testosterone like some gorillas" that you see typified by Swarzeneggar and The Rock are roided-up fakes.
I agree, which is why I don't understand why you're making a big deal out of it. The level below normal masculinity is literally the pretty, but tough boy tier like Cloud, Raiden, Nero, etc. Still unequivocally male, yet with a different style of charisma and aesthetics and that's not a bad thing. 

> In the case of MGS, you had been playing the same character for over a decade by that point, so Kojima plopping a pretty-boy on everyone, with his big introduction being him running around a military base in his birthday suit, and having him hijack the story, was the last thing people were expecting and had a right to be outraged.
And yet it worked and it worked well. First of all, humor and absurdity had already been part of the franchise and second, Raiden was a great entry to the series, which is why he developed and following and even got his own game. Would Snake have been appropriate for Rising? No, but Raiden was perfect for it and coincidentally, that was dev'd by Platinum. I like Raiden and I like Snake. The good thing is that there's enough room in the series for the both of them. That's what defines good series, a strong cast, not just a strong MC. This is what also makes or breaks fighting games. 

>Although the rather ironic case of the Gears series is the the REAL fourth game in the series, Judgement, starred an entirely new cast and I have not heard a single bad thing about it. So clearly there's more to introducing a new character as the lead in the series.
Right and that ties back into MGS. Raiden can't replace Snake and wasn't meant to, the same way Master Chief and Fenix can't be replaced, but there is room for alternative protagonists, which only adds to the strength of the lore and longevity of the series. 

>Why would anyone want to play as Raiden when they can play as Snake (Especially when you start the game playing as Snake)?
Because it's something familiar, but different. I liked playing as Raiden and I liked the vibe and story of MGS2. It was nice to have it, while also having Snake as the touchstone to return to. And like I said, he was the more fitting choice for Rising. 

>Why would anyone want to play as Nero when they can play as Dante
Because it's the same thing. Nero is more youthful and has a little more attitude. It tells a different part of the story and expands the lore. I like him as a character and I like DMC as a series. 

>And why would anyone want to play as Yakumo when they could play as Ryu (Which KT had to obligate Platinum including from the start)?
I'm honestly glad we're getting a new protag. Ninja Gaiden Ragebound has a new character and he looks traditionally masculine, but you're not complaining about that and neither am I. We just had the NG Master Collection not too long ago. We just had Ninja Gaiden Black 2 released...on top of all the past versions. That's a lot of Ryu Hayabusa in a short span. It makes sense to branch out since they're going so fucking heavy on the series this year and I'm looking forward to it. I want new characters and Ryu will always be there. 

>>271989
>Yes. I would say that, not because of cultural standards, but because of the FF, Square Enix, and Sony branding and marketing backing it.
Then I'm glad you're not a designer, anon, because you can have all that shit and still fail, look at Concord. Cloud's youthfulness was central to the theme and aesthetic of the game. You already had the nigger Barrett playing the macho man, so Cloud provided the counterpoint. His youth and the correlating character is what made the identity of that game. Marcus Fenix with a Buster Sword and anime hair would not have worked. 

>Even if raiden is liked now (because he is not subversive commie media/propaganda), he still had to go through several design changes and arcs for the MGS fanbase to be cool with him.
I was cool with Raiden from day 1 and I played MGS on the PS1 as a kid before I ever touched MGS 2. I can only speak for myself, but Raiden is cool with me, same as Nero and fingers crossed, hopefully Yakumo. 

>There is a reason that Bayonetta was on the cover and not Viola.
I know and I get it. I haven't played it, but just looking at the character, they obviously fumbled. I can't speak on it, though, because like I said, Bayonetta games are still in my backlog.

>>272009
>There are no Japanese dudes sitting in office going "we need to find a microscopic internet forum to waste our time on when we can reach a bigger audience on literally every other site".
What makes you think KT is marketing this themselves? There are companies out there who's dedicated job is marketing. Also consider the $2 million Ubishit dropped trying to get social media influencers to market AssCreed Shadows. You're probably right that not a single person at KT proper knows about this place, but what about all the other who's job is to be aware of how information is transmitted across the wires?
>And yet it worked and it worked well
No, it didn't. People only like MGS2 despite anything and everything having to do with Raiden.
>First of all, humor and absurdity had already been part of the franchise
Is it actually "typical" of the franchise when that's just Japanese story-telling in general?
>Raiden was a great entry to the series
Everyone hated him in everything except for Rising.
>The good thing is that there's enough room in the series for the both of them.
Then why did Raiden have to hijack the story of MGS2 instead of the game being marketed in him being the protagonist?
>This is what also makes or breaks fighting games. 
Fighting games are not linear story-driven games. And even the ones that "are" handle their story in a completely different manner to something like MGS.
>Because it's something familiar, but different.
No, it's a bait-and-switch.
>And like I said, he was the more fitting choice for Rising. 
Why do you keep defaulting to Rising when the issue that people have with Raiden all stem from MGS2?
>Because it's the same thing.
No, it's not. Nero and Dante are two completely different characters. And no one liked Nero, until DmC came out and retroactively changed their minds.
>I'm honestly glad we're getting a new protag.
WHY? Why do we need a "new" protag? Even more, if we do "need" a new protag, why make an entirely new character when you have the rich lore of the NG/DoA series to pull from? Hell, why not bring back Yaiba?
>Ninja Gaiden Ragebound has a new character and he looks traditionally masculine, but you're not complaining
No, I am. I just completely forgot about the game until you brought it up. When I saw the trailer, I was wondering why you playing as this Literal Who instead of playing as Ryu or someone else from NG/DoA.
>That's a lot of Ryu Hayabusa in a short span.
Okay and? People like playing as (NGB/2) Ryu.
>It makes sense to branch out
Again, they have the entire NG/DoA universe to pull from, and their "brilliant idea" is to make an entirely new character?
>Marcus Fenix with a Buster Sword and anime hair would not have worked. 
Have you heard of Berserk? Or He-Man?
>I was cool with Raiden from day 1
Good for you, everyone else wasn't.

>>272015
>There are companies out there who's dedicated job is marketing.
I know. I took a social media marketing class for an easy A. In the entire textbook, only 4chan was mentioned and it was only mentioned in passing and negatively as a Huwhite Supremacist website. If 4chan is not even relevant, Sleepchan will be completely unknown. The key is to reach as many people as possible using the appropriate avenues. Sleep isn't even on the radar. 

>Also consider the $2 million Ubishit dropped trying to get social media influencers to market AssCreed Shadows. 
Right, influencers, a more substantial market. Any time wasted (yes, wasted) here is pointless because literally all the alternatives are better investments of time. And it's a moot point because they don't even know this site exists in all likeliness. 

>You're probably right that not a single person at KT proper knows about this place, but what about all the other who's job is to be aware of how information is transmitted across the wires?
This isn't a wire. It's so microscopic in the body of the internet to the point of being nonexistent. That's what's funny when people talk about shilling on these small sites. They're not only not relevant enough to waste time on, but they're unknown except to glowniggers. 

>No, it didn't. People only like MGS2 despite anything and everything having to do with Raiden.
Bull. You can't separate the quality of a game from its main character, especially one that's a borderline film like Metal Gear. Raiden played his part in 2's success. IDK why you're hating Raiden besides not being manly enough for you, but people like him and they liked him at the time, too. 

>Then why did Raiden have to hijack the story of MGS2 instead of the game being marketed in him being the protagonist?
You'll have to ask Kojima, as that was his decision and it was apparently a good one. 

>Fighting games are not linear story-driven games.
Doesn't matter, the principle is the same. Characters help with popularity, visibility and longevity. Who made Street Fighter more popular, Chun Li or E Honda? A lot more people will recognize the former, even if they don't play the game. The same thing applies to every other piece of media. In fact, I was just watching a YT video about Melty Blood and one of the comments said that they didn't pick up the game because the characters didn't have enough 'drip'. 

>No, it's a bait-and-switch.
In the case of MGS2 and Raiden, yeah, it was, lol, and it paid off. Take your complaint up with Kojima. Yakumo's already been advertised, so if you choose to play the game, you know exactly what you're getting into. 

>Why do you keep defaulting to Rising when the issue that people have with Raiden all stem from MGS2?
Because in the long term interest of the series, it paid off. Essentially, these are gambles to add a new character and give them significant screen time. Some work and some don't. JD/Kait and Gears didn't work. Raiden worked and so did Nero, as he again starred in DMC 5, right alongside Dante and the variety in playstyles was one of the commended things in the game. 

>No, it's not. Nero and Dante are two completely different characters
That's not what I meant....

>And no one liked Nero
I liked Nero. He had a cool attitude and fit right into the world. He was the youthful counterpoint to an aging Dante. 

>WHY? Why do we need a "new" protag? Even more, if we do "need" a new protag, why make an entirely new character when you have the rich lore of the NG/DoA series to pull from?
Not just one, but 2 new prot's, lol. To answer your question, though, there's no one in DOA that could've done the job. Hayate would've been the closest, but Hayate doesn't quite have the characteristic edge that NG games are known for. While I like Rachel, she's an ideal side character, not a main one. 

>Hell, why not bring back Yaiba?
Because he's associated with a flop and honestly his character design isn't strong. 

>Okay and? People like playing as (NGB/2) Ryu.
Of course we do, but with the flurry of NG releases in such a short span, I would personally prefer a new character and thus a fresh take on the series. After 3 games, I think I still wouldn't be opposed to a new character, regardless of if NGB2, Ragebound and the MC weren't released. We'll have to agree to disagree on that, but I like Raiden-tier shakeups if its done right. 

>Have you heard of Berserk? Or He-Man?
Apples and oranges. I already explained to you the context of FF7. It's not the same as Berserk and He-Man. They are different stories with different tones and thus different characters. IDK what the reason is for you feeling the need to shoehorn the buff dude archetype into every role, but it's weird, anon. There's enough room in gaming for buff bros and pretty boys and I find it almost humorous that a certain section of the gamer crowd obsessed with masculinity has a taste in men overlapping with twink bottoms.

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>>272032
>>272032
>Metal Gear. Raiden played his part in 2's success. IDK why you're hating Raiden besides not being manly enough for you, but people like him and they liked him at the time, too. 
Lol you are so full of shit.
It's clear you are a gen z faggot who wasn't even around when MGS2 came out.
People were pissed that Snake was relegated to a secondary role to make room for some effeminate faggot.
Why do you think Kojima turned Raiden into a cyborg after that?
Because people hated him and that was the only way to make him cooler (even his voice got rougher)
>>272032
>You'll have to ask Kojima, as that was his decision and it was apparently a good one. 
>Kojimbo
>Good decisions
Pick one.
>>272032
>I know. I took a social media marketing class
Anon, i...

At this point i am not sure if your dumb posts are genuine or if they are yet another case of "innovative tactics".

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>>271865
>>271975
>>271976
>>272009
>>272032
>I know. I took a social media marketing class
Watch out, we have a real expert here.
I am sure you know all the ins and outs of the gaming industry because you took a "social media marketing class"
Lol what a fucking clown you are.
You remind me of that anon ed8a42 in the "4th gen games played on a CRT" thread.
>>270046
You are not that same moron, aren't you?

Raiden was cool in MGS2 and served his purpose as a character.

>>272040
rofl, was finally having someone call you out on your shitty arguments a traumatic experience for you?

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>>272043
<umad bro?
Not an argument, try again retard.
By the way, old pixel games look far better on CRT than they do on newer LCD HD screen, faggot.

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>>272032
>I took a social media marketing class
And stopped reading there. It doesn't take an expert to know that you wasted your fucking money on a useless college course created by a professor looking to make a quick buck off suckers.
>Right, influencers, a more substantial market.
And where do the so-called "influencers" get their content from? From sites like us, jackass.
>This isn't a wire.
<Vid related

>>272042
Honestly it's nuts people are still mad over Raiden and the story of MGS2 is still relevant.
I wasn't even mad I was just blown away and laughed it off

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>>272052
> the story of MGS2 is still relevant.
Sure, the storyline is still relevant, but the point is that Snake got replaced by Raiden to appeal to people who never gave a fuck about MGS.
Didn't Kojimbo himself admit they Raiden was created specifically to appeal to shallow Japanese schoolgirls that didn't want to play "as an old man"?

>>272060
Yes.

>>272060
>implying nipponese schoolgirls don't want to play as old men
What did he mean by this?

>>272060
question is who actually wants to play as an old ass man? there's probably more people willing to play as an obese man
MGS4 Happened and clearly people didn't actually play it or straight up looked up the cutscenes just to pretend they know shit

>>272071
The "old man" refers to MGS1/MGS2 Snake for not being a manly man and not a twink faggot.
In MGS4 he was ACTUALLY old.

>>272077
*for being a manly man and not a twink

>>272077
I know that, does not change the fact that manly men in gaming is aways 2 steps away from fart and dick jokes no thanks to western writing standards.

>>272071
Depends on the old man. I wouldn't want to play as the old man outside the grocery store who complains about his back pain and doesn't know when to shut the fuck up. But someone like Old Snake is pretty cool even if the story he's in is pure shit.

>>272084
>I wouldn't want to play as the old man outside the grocery store who complains about his back pain and doesn't know when to shut the fuck up.
I would. It would be funny as Hell. Age and boredom does strange things to a person after all, so why not make a game about being an elderly person doing silly and annoying things because you have jack to do with your time. Hell, add in the ability to stand next to the freeway as you hold up a hairdryer for absolutely no reason at all.

>>272036
>At this point i am not sure if your dumb posts are genuine or if they are yet another case of "innovative tactics".
You suck at your job, I wonder why they even pay for such incompetency.

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>>272103
>shit, i got called out!
>better deflect and accuse them of what i am guilty of
<no u!
>there, now they'll surely believe i am a genuine poster

It's very telling how the Western AAA industry is dying right now because they probably had marketers like 8122b8 who are speaking into devs, publishers, and shareholders ears like this. Revisionist history, defending every design decision a director does, different views on basic biology on what is attractive, and fighting tooth and nail that every little detail he said was right.
On the other side of the fence, indie games are flourishing because, since they can't afford a marketing team, they actually have to know people who are actually invested in the medium of video games and actually make what people want. sure there are duds but there are some games that are absolutely creative and scratches the itch of whatever genre I'm looking for.

>>272111
I'm honestly surprised but very happy the independent games scene managed to recover from its incompetent hipster pretensions that pervaded the scene in the 2010s.  All of my favorite releases from the past 6-7 years now have been independent games.

>>272071
>question is who actually wants to play as an old ass man?
Games where you play as an "old ass man" and are great include:
<The entire 007 series
<The entire Bionic Commando series
<The entire Die Hard series
<The entire Duke Nukem series
<The entire Doom series
<The entire Halo trilogy
<The entire Splinter Cell series
<The entire Syphon Filter series
<The entire Wing Commander series
<The entire Yakuza series
<Binary Domain
<Hotel Dusk
<Stranglehold
<The Suffering

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>>272036
>It's clear you are a gen z faggot who wasn't even around when MGS2 came out.
I'm in my early 30's and played it on PS2. Incorrect assumption. Me and the other young weebs thought Raiden was a cool character. 

>People were pissed that Snake was relegated to a secondary role to make room for some effeminate faggot.
A minority of butthurt Westerners were pissed. Raiden did well in Japan and did well overall in the West. You seem to think you're in some kind of majority when you're not. 

>Why do you think Kojima turned Raiden into a cyborg after that?
Why did Snake turn old? Plot advancement. 

>Because people hated him and that was the only way to make him cooler
Pure projection from you. 

>Pick one.
Kojima made one of the best stealth franchises of all time. I don't know what you've accomplished in gaming. 

>>272040
>I am sure you know all the ins and outs of the gaming industry because you took a "social media marketing class"
Anyone with a lick of common sense can tell you that game companies are not shilling on boards with only a few dozen users. This board is irrelevant and effectively doesn't exist. 

>>272050
>And stopped reading there.
I'm sure that's a common theme for you. 

>It doesn't take an expert to know that you wasted your fucking money on a useless college course created by a professor looking to make a quick buck off suckers.
I took it as a way to keep my GPA up while I figured out my major. It only cost me a couple hundred bucks total because I go to state college. It served its purpose. 

>And where do the so-called "influencers" get their content from? From sites like us, jackass.
Pure, unadulterated delusion. What "content" does this site offer? What influencers use this little drop of urine in the digital ocean? Next to nobody cares about this place and even less than that even know it exists. Whatever relevance you think you have is purely imaginative. 

>>272111
>It's very telling how the Western AAA industry is dying right now
Dying in terms of what, profit? It's not. If you mean creativity and quality, sure. 

>because they probably had marketers like 8122b8 who are speaking into devs, publishers, and shareholders ears like this.
I'm not saying anything heretical. People like new characters and not everyone wants to play generic meatheads all the time. 

>Revisionist history
I never revised history. More people like Raiden and more people like Nero than dislike. That's all I said and you can't realistically dispute that.

>defending every design decision a director does
Where did I do this? I said it looks like Platinum fucked up with female from Bayonetta 3 from what I could see. I said that Gears 4 and 5 were fuck ups. You're just lying out the side of your mouth and then have the audacity to claim that I'm being revisionist. 

>different views on basic biology on what is attractive
Like what? A lot of people do find pretty boys attractive. That's basic biology. Pretty=young and youth is nearly universally attractive. 

>and fighting tooth and nail that every little detail he said was right.
I repeatedly stated that I agree with the other poster, but go on and keep lying. It's the MO of your type of poster.

>>272114
if you gave the player character customization they would play as a bald funny green or purple dude with a completely fucked nose. unless they decide to play a bimbo or flat girl.
<bionic commando series
there's more than one game?

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>>272115
>Me and the other young weebs thought Raiden was a cool character. 
<How do you do, fellow kids?
>A minority of butthurt Westerners
Keep telling yourself that, that it's only a "minority" of people who complain.
>Kojima made one of the best stealth franchises of all time.
No, that's Thief. Even then, MGS was competing alongside Syphon Filter and Splinter Cell, the latter of which MGS directly references.
>Anyone with a lick of common sense can tell you that game companies are not shilling on boards with only a few dozen users.
Yes, they are.
>I took it as a way to keep my GPA up while I figured out my major.
Again, you're a retard who wasted money. College provides zero benefit unlesss you're actually going there with a goal in mind of what you want to learn.
>What "content" does this site offer?
Unfiltered opionons and (If you're really insecure) content to show how "crazy" them Anons are.
>Dying in terms of what, profit? It's not.
Yes, it is: >>>/v/270379 
>I'm not saying anything heretical.
Yet
>People like new characters
No, they don't.
>and not everyone wants to play generic meatheads all the time
Then they play something else. There's thousands of games out there where you play as everything from children to women to ayys to robots to fucking insects. If you don't play to play as a military hardened "meathead", then play something like Rogue Ops, Red Ninja, or Velvet Assassin. If you don't want to play as Kratos or Dante, then there's Blades of Time, Bayonetta, and P.N.03.
>I never revised history
Yes, you are. People hated MGS2 because of everything having to do with how the game introduced Raiden and forced people to play as him.
>Where did I do this?
Your so-called "defense" of companies introducing new characters when no one wants nor asked for it.
>A lot of people do find pretty boys attractive.
Yeah, little girls or really desperate (ex-)cons. No one else.

>>272118
>there's more than one game?
https://www.mobygames.com/group/1251/bionic-commando-series/

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>>272124
<fellow kids
Yes, I was a kid in 2001. 

>Keep telling yourself that, that it's only a "minority" of people who complain.
Uh huh, so why did Rising do such good sales with such hated Raiden as the exclusive protag in a mere spin off game? He did nearly double the sales of the Snake led Peace Walker.

>Kojima made one of the best stealth franchises of all time.
<No, that's  Thief. 
>one of 
>one of

>Yes, they are.
Delusional. OK anon, show me what triple A company is shilling here on zzz with proof. In fact, show me a AA company or even an indie that's shilling on here. 

>Again, you're a retard who wasted money. College provides zero benefit unlesss you're actually going there with a goal in mind of what you want to learn.
Actually it saved me money because with a good GPA and how cheap state college is, I pay extremely little and again, you seem to not be reading as well as you should be:
>while I figured out my major.
I know what I'm going there for and that class went to my elective fill. 

>Unfiltered opionons and (If you're really insecure) content to show how "crazy" them Anons are.
Companies don't care about those. They make games to appeal to as many people as possible, especially the lowest common denominators. Nobody from Capcom is on here looking for our edgy takes. 

>Yes, it is: >>>/v/270379 
"Dying" means it is on its way to the grave. There are no Triple A companies that fit that description. A decrease in sales doesn't mean "dying". Games are still being released and triple A is still the majority of the market. And as much as I personally don't like it, here's a good example of the opposite being true:
>The player milestone comes seven days after Shadows launched on May 20, and is up from the 2 million reported on day two, surpassing the launches of both Origins and Odyssey.

>Other stats reported by Ubisoft today were already revealed by IGN’s coverage of an internal email in which the company contextualized Shadows’ opening weekend performance, saying it’s better compared to Origins and Odyssey rather than the “perfect storm” 2020’s Valhalla launched into.

>Shadows saw the second highest day one sales revenue in Assassin's Creed franchise history, behind only Valhalla, the biggest Ubisoft day one ever on the PlayStation Store, and has seen over 40 million hours played so far.

>No, they don't.
Already proven to be incorrect. 

>Then they play something else. There's thousands of games out there where you play as everything from children to women to ayys to robots to fucking insects. 
Before, your argument was that everyone wanted to play meatheads and that everyone wants only that and now you're listing all these different things that people make and buy that aren't meatheads. 

>Velvet Assasin
Hah, that one takes me back. 

>Yes, you are. People hated MGS2 because of everything having to do with how the game introduced Raiden and forced people to play as him.
A minority of people. MGS2 outsold both MGS1 and MGS3 and your little hated Raiden did over 6 million in an action spin-off that was nearly double of the Snake-led Peace Walker. You're in the minority with your Raiden hate. I don't care if you hate him, but don't pretend like that attitude is the status quo when it's not. 

>Your so-called "defense" of companies introducing new characters when no one wants nor asked for it.
That's not remotely the same as "defending every design a director makes" and I said that the new Bayonetta and Gears characters looked like/are shit. Stop being dishonest. 

>Yeah, little girls or really desperate (ex-)cons. No one else.
Not much experience with women, huh, anon?

>>272115
>Dying in terms of what, profit? It's not. If you mean creativity and quality, sure. 
Microsoft has shut down how many studios?
What halo game can they make without 10 years of dev time only to fuck up the lore, gameplay, online service, etc.? 
Embracer group is busy buying up and selling off every single videogame corporation they bought.
Almost every live service game with sony has shut down that Jim Ryan tried to green light( ex. Concord).
Ubisoft is trying to sell itself off to Tencent now.
Eidos Montreal is dead as well.
Maybe you're thinking of mobile games but western AAA development is looking dead as fuck from what I'm seeing. What Western AAA is living large?
>I'm not saying anything heretical. People like new characters and not everyone wants to play generic meatheads all the time.
Not at the cost of replacing established characters. This is what I'm saying in regards to you justifying every single business decision and direction a videogame company makes.
>More people like Raiden and more people like Nero than dislike
Which, once again, I can accept that people like Raiden and Nero. But I would bet that more people would like Snake and Dante even more than them and wouldn't want a future installment include Raiden and Nero more that the original characters that started the franchise. Kinda what the OP is saying about side characters ruining the franchise because it is what no one came for and characters are overstaying their welcome.
>Where did I do this?
I'll say that this goes into the defending every design decision a director does because you say "even thought there is backlash on the character switch, but eventually everyone liked it and so it is justified" . Here are you're quotes...
> Raiden was a great entry to the series, which is why he developed and following and even got his own game. Would Snake have been appropriate for Rising? No, but Raiden was perfect for it and coincidentally, that was dev'd by Platinum.
>Raiden played his part in 2's success. IDK why you're hating Raiden besides not being manly enough for you, but people like him and they liked him at the time, too. 
>You'll have to ask Kojima, as that was his decision and it was apparently a good one. 
You are constantly defending every direction a company is taking with a franchise. So where is this introduction of a new ninja character in Ninja Gaiden going to take us besides us arguing on the internet and playing favorites with characters?
> A lot of people do find pretty boys attractive. That's basic biology. Pretty=young and youth is nearly universally attractive.
Pretty and young is what men find attractive in women. For men is wisdom, competency, and accolades that draws men in. The fact that you think that men would find young and pretty a thing all men like, misspoken this poorly or not, makes me think I'm talking to a woman or a gay man.
>>272133
>Companies don't care about those. They make games to appeal to as many people as possible, especially the lowest common denominators. Nobody from Capcom is on here looking for our edgy takes.
When someone says "I don't care" it is the first sign that they care. They care the most about it and more than anyone else. If you say you don't care about the jamaican bobsledding team or the olympic underwater basketweaving I will call you a liar. You are the biggest care bear on the planet right now for this topic exactly.
>your little hated Raiden did over 6 million in an action spin-off that was nearly double of the Snake-led Peace Walker.
They gave people what was advertised. Not a bait and switch like MGS2. Platinum put their chest out in front saying it was Raiden as a cyber ninja chopping up shit. Once again the way you're arguing by propping up the replacement character and de-legitimizing original character is endemic with what I said about the videogame industry with what mentality is operating within it.
>Not much experience with women, huh, anon?
This insult is really giving the impression I'm talking to a woman or a marketer who does not belong here.
Too much to respond to. I'm just gonna post.

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>>272133
>so why did Rising do such good sales with such hated Raiden as the exclusive protag in a mere spin off game?
Depends on what you define as "good". Rising "officially" sold 2.5 million copies, which puts it a little over the PSP exclusive Peace Walker (2 million). And even then, majority of those sales only occured a year after news had already spread around that the game was actually good and it finally came to PC. So how do you want to play this? Because the takeaway I'm seeing is that majority of people initially avoided the game, which defeats your entire argument about how people "loved" Raiden, until it came out that the game was actually good.
>Companies don't care about those
Yes, they do.
>Nobody from Capcom is on here looking for our edgy takes. 
Yes, they are. When they're not shilling how great their latest shlop is.
>There are no Triple A companies that fit that description. 
Didn't Ubishit literally announced several days ago that they're already reconsolidating in their new company because AC Niggers did SO "well"?
>A decrease in sales doesn't mean "dying".
Yes, it does. As these companies have gone from releasing 10-20 games in a year down to 3-5. Meaning that even a single game failing is a substantial loss. Do you not remember the mega-successful nuTomb Raider, Hitman Absolution, and Sleeping Dogs being declared as monumental flops?
>Games are still being released
Yes, like how games were still being released after the 1983 video game crash. In fact, Intellivision was riding high during those years are they had the entire console market to themselves.

I take it you flunked economics and business at your college?
>Before, your argument was that everyone wanted to play meatheads and that everyone wants only that
Yes, in the games that star those meatheads. If you don't want to play as those meatheads, then you play something else. In fact, no one would have complained about Raiden nor Nero had they starred in their own original games. And this becomes the central issue a lot of people have. They come to MGS because they want to play as Snake, DMC because they want to play as Dante, and Ninja Gaiden because they want to play as Ryu. If Kojima really thought that Raiden was such an "important" addition to the franchise as a new playable character with his own independent story, then they should have made MGS2 a spin-off. KT did exactly this when they made Yaiba a spin-off instead of the next "mainline" NG game. And the closest that Capcom ever came was that Nightmare Before Christmas game that was a test bed for everything seen in DMC3 and 4.
>MGS2 outsold both MGS1 and MGS3
Probably because everyone was riding on the hype of the original MGS and was so excited about MGS2 that it made the game extremely successful (In addition to the "special edition" being multiplatform, while the orignal only had a PS1 and PC release). Then after they had been burned by MGS2, they became weary of MGS3 and didn't know what to think of it until long afterwards. But then people became confident again after seeing how good MGS3 was, which resulted in MGS4 selling over six million (Which remains a console exclusive to this day). 
>your little hated Raiden did over 6 million in an action spin-off
Where are you getting this figure from? The only sales data I see for Rising is that it sold half a million on the PS3, and then an addition two million once it hit Steam a year later. At "most", the game likely initially sold just under a million on consoles, then probalby settled at 3-4 million by 2015. Which means Rising would be on par with MGS3.

>>272124
>College provides zero benefit unlesss you're actually going there with a goal in mind of what you want to learn.
College is almost entirely signalling and it doesn't matter what you learn.

>>272133
>Uh huh, so why did Rising do such good sales with such hated Raiden as the exclusive protag in a mere spin off game?
For one, it didn't sell well for a long time. It got more popular over time mostly due to memes (of the internet variety) slowly spreading, with Max0r's "incorrect summary" being one of the peaks of its popularity.
And this slow increase in popularity was afforded to it by being on PC, instead of an obsolete handheld. A normalfag can go on Steam right now and buy Rising, while the same can't be said for Peace Walker.

>>272149
>signalling
More like networking. You should be networking in there, or you may as well not have gone. The slip of paper you get has about as much value as toilet paper otherwise.
t. autist who can't communicate worth shit and hasn't been able to get a job for years now thank god for autismbux

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