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keep minority spirit
This is where the imbiber of the hehpill pretends to learn LEARNS foreign languages so he can insult jannies polylingually to better read mangos and mango accessories. While the average anon CANNOT learn a foreign language or english ffs this doesn't necessarily mean you can't either give up and rage at brazilians in dota it's a better use of your time
More language torrents (holy crap there's like 80 of them, you could learn polish here and confuse the heck out of the poles on tg)
Ten billion FREE books on languages
Even moar books, these ones on linguistics what's the difference lol idunno
This one comes from an anon who claims to be ukranian, so it's probably the good stuff (allegedly commercial courses)
This one comes with pictures as well as yet more books
I myself will be learning nip first, and if I can pull that off then it'll just be two more steps until I'm the de facto god of all imageboards existing now and in the future.
Here is a picture that gives what is probably false hope. I shall be following it because I am prone to the promise of "easy."
please report on youre progress kudasaimasu
>I myself will be learning nip first, and if I can pull that off then it'll just be two more steps until I'm the de facto god of all imageboards existing now and in the future.
Progress: Chart templates are filled out for the kana (not filled in yet, just rows and tables starting with consonants and vowels), and some special rules for the kana are also written out (long consonants, the dakuon, the handakuon, a warning to not confuse long vowels for unlinked vowels, and other things. Basically up to page 14 of "A guide to learning Hiragana and Katakana" by Kenneth G. Henshall and Tetsuo Takagaki.
Plan is to do at least an hour a day of study, so as to not burn out but still make steady progress until I can at least properly read the mangos and the vidya.
More progress: Holy wew finally made it through this a whole slew of special rules (written down, so if I'm lucky I'll remember one outta twenty), and finally started filling out the kana charts themselves. Basically, now at the fun part. Probably a smart way for him to have written it out, if he put the special rules at the end I probably would have stopped caring and gone on to the Kanji. One more hour's worth wrapped up, soon I shall read the forbidden nip comics and actually learn about the cute little 2hus I frequently masturbate too admire the artistic skill of.
So last time I posted I had practiced reading kana to the point where I could piece together sentences. I attempted to read some of yotsuba, but this proved to been futile; my vocabulary is near non-existent. For what it's worth, pronouncing the furigana felt pretty natural, but I'm at the point where I really need materials that are at my level.
I used anki, but barely anything sticks even after using it daily for a number of weeks. The card packs I found had a lot of irrelevant vocab for a beginner, things like days of the week, large numbers (>100), and other retarded shit like including words like temple and gold before house or yen. I never looked too closely into how anki worked, so maybe it adds random cards from the set, but either way it's pretty dumb. Can't remember what the packs were, but I'll find them again in a bit.
What I really would like is a pack of the most common nouns and verbs, and some simple furigana reading to familiarize myself with common sentence structures. Are there any dick-and-jane tier reading materials?
In the process of all this I've become somewhat skeptical of the spaced repetition method. It seems pretty obvious that it is a terrible for forming new memories. I am pretty sure its sole value is to help you to not forget things you already know. As such, I'll probably just replace anki with a script and text file scraped together from different packs of my own curation. My time is fairly limited as it is, so I'm not going to dilute decks with random numbers and other garbage. Not until I can read some basic things, at least.
More kana filled out, an lots of kana combinations to form some words. Little bit more progress, and a little closer! Looking forward to reading Yotsuba soon.
I didn't like anki either. Nothing stuck. I'm hoping all the resources in OP will prove to have a lot more stay in learning nip. Time will tell.
I learned kana for games then gave up.
>I learned kana for games then gave up.
Has the kana by itself been sufficient for you to play most nip games? if so, that's likely as far as I would also want to take it, but then again some games may contain kanji I s'pose.
yeah you just need it for menus and stuff
Ah. I was going in for raw games. I may end up needing kanji yet.
It depends on the game and who the intended audience is. For instance, some games for kids feature furigana above the kanji so you can read it without memorizing those godforsaken symbols.
yet more progress: Did you know that a tengu is a long-nosed goblin? I thought it was a bird demon. I feel very misled by the board mascot and her ruse. Furthermore, a "senpai" is a senior. I assumed it was some kind of informal colleague.
The hiragana chart is now filled out, more words are done with piece together hiragana characters, and the voiced sounds of hiragana are also filled out in a tabular fashion.
>furigana above the kanji
well let's hope mine do, because holy wew writing down some 4k kanji will be a real exercise.
The long-nosed tengus are just one kind of them. There are wolf and crow tengus too.
Oh good. That lessens the sting of the ruse, for I did always hope she was a crow and not some bizarro giant version of a goblin with a "nose for news"
'nother day done. This whole hour was just writing out more words in hiragana. I sure hope I can make sense of it once these words are in sentences to provide context, since, in romanji, "Hakone, Meiji, Nagoya, Matsushima, Nikkoo, Sapporo, Oosaka, Kyooto, and Honshu" all mean place (it now occurs to me these are probably cities or something as I type this). For my purposes, I'm not so sure there's a reason to memorize the romanji definition for each character of hiragana, since such characters can translate to wildly different things anyways once mushed together in a separate order (like horse and hoarse, just one a thrown in and the two definitions couldn't be farther apart) but I suppose if I intended to actually speak the language the romanji would be important.
One thing that dutifully writing out these words is helping with in spades is recognizing hiragana characters son sight, or close enough thereto that I check the hiragana chart first, so that's helpful.
Found this in one of the torrent pastebins. rutracker magnet didn't work, but I it turns out it's on internet archive. Looks pretty decent, better than other resources I've seen. I've started filtering through to construct vocab lists that remove unnecessary things like interjections and particles.
I really don't need a dictionary to tell me what "ee!" means and particles are obviously something you pick up from context when you hear real sentences. I've already studied a decent number of them to know that there are a few really crucial ones, and a fuck ton of "flavour" particles like yo vs zo, or how girls add wa to the end of a sentence just to sound girly. Even if these do have a nuanced meaning it's not going to sink in until I hear a lot of examples.
I'm starting out with mostly nouns for concrete things. hito, (person) ie (house), hi (sun), me (eye). This will be the bulk of my vocab study, because they form memories easily. Next, I will use my verb list to study sentence construction, using the nouns that I know. I'll have to find some more reading material, but I can probably just use example sentences from dictionaries and search results. As they come up in reading/constructing, I also plan to make a list of more abstract nouns and pronouns like imi (meaning), yoi (good), kanji (feeling, yes it's an actual word apparently). These words are really important, but also harder to remember, and that's why the frequency dictionary will be handy, so I can focus on the most important first.
Once I have a small chunk of vocab done, I'll get some flash cards going for retention. Then I'll rewatch some anime, try to translate music, and maybe check out some visual novels. I'm not going to start worrying about reading and writing kanji until I can comprehend most simple verbal sentences. At that point I'll likely know what they mean once I hear them spoken, and then I'll actually have some context and reason to remember how they're written.
almost missed today's, wew. Yoon tables are filled out now too, which to my eyes appear to be hiragana symbols for which a consonant, "y", and then a vowel, a, o, or u, get smooshed together. I suppose the y substitutes for the i and the e. More hiragana words are constructed, and the fun part is that, with that, the first chapter of the book is concluded and tomorrow I can begin on the "Katakana" chapter. That'll be nice, perhaps soon I can translate the little picture in OP.
Most of the katakana table is filled out, as is the yoon table for katakana. Finally found the elusive box symbol among the katakana. Katakana is a funny little method of writing, because the romanized translations are made to sound almost exactly like their english equivalents, or as close as the Japanese tongue can muster. (sarari from katakana ---> salary, as an example.) I'm still learning about it all, but if katakana is able to cover all their loan-word needs than that's hugely impressive. Probably not though, they probably need to mix kanji in at least for at least a few instances. The real shame is that I liked writing katakana out more than the hiragana, but sadly most everything will probably be combinations of hiragana/kanji, if I'm understanding nip correctly. Also, bunch more words in katakana written out.
Finished combing through the first thousand words and pared it down to 100 nouns by grouping words with the same meaning, and removing things that are more abstract. The remaining words (verbs, particles, etc) will go in other lists, which I've decided I'll worry about after finishing this one. The whole dictionary is 5k words, so I'm halfway there. If I'm lucky that'll bring 5k words down to 500 nouns, which should be pretty feasible for casual study.
The good thing about doing things this way is that I'm learning the meaning of words that I already know. For example, I've heard the words tabemono (food) and machi (city) frequently, but didn't know their meaning. As a result they have been in my head, and the meaning sticks fairly naturally in a subconscious way.
>I'm halfway there
Fuck, meant to say one fifth.
if I cum on youmoo's glasses will she take it as a yes
all you had to do was give her those sweet (You)s
Another day done, and all the hiragana/katakana is filled out! Thus far, I have successfully translated the very first panel of yotsuba, which is where she says "ooooooooo" looking out the window of the moving truck. Progressing like a snail, probably would have been a better use of my time to just copy down hiragana/katakana tables and not worry about the rest of it. But, I do only do this for an hour each day so I didn't start on Yotsuba until the tail end of the hour anyways. Either way, I have now translated more nip now than I have at any earlier point in my life, which is very fun.
Technically speaking, I think it's just two o's, since it's the hiraganic o followed by the katakanic "-". Who knows, either way the translator decided to call it "whoah" in english.
Another report almost immediately, because I was impatient to get started on actually translating actual Japanese. I immediately hit a roadblock on just the second panel of Yotsuba, where I encountered a character I could find on neither the hiragana, katakana, yoon, or voiced tables I possessed. Consequently, I have now switched to imabi.net, the one in the picture I posted back at the beginning here >>2636, and went through beginner 1 of "vowels." Will be going through that again tomorrow, because apparently they're rather important and I kinda glazed over about halfway through. Probably the cost of trying to work the section after midnight. On the other hand, since I've already done monday's hour tomorrow will be a lot less planned.
Despite my best efforts, my studies always tend to stray into learning how to speak nip. I suppose it may ultimately be necessary for reading after all. Today was lesson 1 of beginner 1 of imabi.net/grammar, on vowels. Accents are interesting, since when thrown over, at least, the romanized characters (outside of the diacritics, does it actually apply to nip characters? Will learn someday, I suppose.) the word changes into something else entirely. Very important, I'm sure. Further, every vowel is pronounced, rather than bound together. That's rather nice actually, unlike english where you see a ch on occasion and then have to wonder if it's pronounced "k" or actually "ch" like and then still try to convince people you're a native speaker (chitin comes to mind as an infamous example.) Very interesting things to learn though, tomorrow shall be consonants.
Finished another hour of study, today over consonants. Sadly, will have to go over it again tomorrow, a headache combined with a lack of interest managed to significantly impede any absorption of the materials, outside of learning that, it seems like, 75% of all consonants are worded differently than english (like for f, the bottom lip doesn't touch the top teeth.) I'll definitely end up going over consonants again tomorrow, and hopefully the headache should have dissipated by then for some better learning.
Alright, 100 more words. I might be done with the list faster than expected because there appear to be fewer and fewer simple nouns the further down the list I go. We're now at 2.2k/5k, so approaching the halfway point for real this time. Once it's done I think I'm going to copy the list and create categorical lists like animals and body parts. That should remove some more bloat and allow me to create a reasonable core vocab list
eugh, well that comes out ugly in my browser, but it looks fine in notepad++. I forgot to mention, I have separated the japanese/english into two columns so it can more easily be studied as flash cards. Quite easy to scroll to a random part and start checking if I know the word.
No progress at all, it seems like. What is this character ぞ? It comes as the second to last character in もうすぐだぞー . I feel silly asking, but it doesn't look like it should be kanji, but I cannot find it in either the hiragana or katakana tables. Basically have it reading MoUSuGuDa??(then an extension of ??) . I went ahead and glossed over learning about the "sounds" of the language since I just want to read it. Hopefully knowing how to say the sounds isn't crucial to learning how to read Japanese. More reading done though, have started digging into monolithic kanjia.
>What is this character ぞ?
Looks like zo. そ plus an accent. A useful note is that you really on need to memorize about 46 (hira/kata) kana, and then learn the accent system for the remaining 25. Broadly speaking, accents just turn unvoiced consonants into voiced ones. There are some slight deviations but they are few in number.
> K -> G, S -> Z, SH -> J, T -> B, H -> P.
This might help with your kana memorization: https://djtguide.neocities.org/kana/index.html
The website was posted in the last thread on plw/jp/. Pretty good resource for other things too. https://djtguide.neocities.org/guide.html
>T -> B
okay that's wrong. It's H sounds become B sounds with ' accents, and P sounds with the "o", accent.
Thanks much, and I think you're right. Couldn't find that for the life of me. Means that that now reads MoUSuGaDaZo(o) if I've understood my readings correctly, while the translator on the page says that it reads as "we're almost there..." (first page of first yotsuba comic, as found here https://bilingualmanga.com/manga/yotsubato/chapter-1/5-1) That threw me for the longest time because the comic just writes it as an apostrophe, but I suppose strokes are just a general idea, and only have to conform to a general order/direction. I'll have to copy and paste the characters into computer text some more, curiously the character looked different from the page when typed into here.
>Hopefully knowing how to say the sounds isn't crucial to learning how to read Japanese.
I think it would save more time than ignoring it. The good news is that reading some romanji and watching some anime should get you decent way there.
To elaborate, you may already be aware, but japanese doesn't have the same spacing conventions as english. Often, you'll have entire sentences without spaces, like this one. The sentence reads as "(Mousugu) (da) (zo.)" To translate as literally as possible: "(soon) (it is) (FYI)." Mousugu translates pretty literally, and "da" is just a informal form of "desu," or "to be." Zo is a particle, in this case it's a modifier implying that the listener should pay attention to what is said. Maybe similar to adding a "Hey," to the beginning of an english sentence.
An aside: particles are used all over the place for different reasons. They're almost always single consonants stuck after the end of other words, so they're pretty recognizable. But holy fuck there are a lot. Context heavily determines the way they are used, so the same kana can be used for many different particles. For example, "wa" when used after the first noun of a sentence marks the subject (the thing doing the verb action. "boku wa...") HOWEVER, wa used at the very end of a sentence mean ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, and is used exclusively by women for the sake of sounding feminine ("sugoi desu wa.") All of these factors combine to mean I don't know which particles are most worth studying. It's probably best to figure them out as they come up.
The point being, you'll have a much easier time picking out words in a sentence if you can hear "da zo!" in your head and know that's not part of "Mousugu." Learning how to "hear" structure might sound a little daunting, but a good thing to remember is most japanese sentences follow a pretty simple structure:
>[subject] [objects and other shit] verb [particles]
Anything in square brackets is entirely optional.
So literally "Iku / ikimasu!" is a full sentence meaning "lets/I will/you go!" These meanings are inferred by context, unless you add other shit to be more specific. So you could say: "watashi wa ikimasu yo!" Effectively means the same thing, but clears up any ambiguity.
The only caveat with this sentence structure is that the verb can be dropped if it is desu/da. The sentences: "Inu." and "atsui." just mean "it's (a) dog," and "it's hot." The same as if you said "Inu desu." Desu is just such a meme word that there's no need to say it when it's this obvious.
As far as I know almost all sentences will follow this structure, but I'm just some autist who can't learn japanese so take that with a grain of salt. There might be more unconventional sentence structures that I'm not aware of, but this is the big one. The big takeaway is that the end of the sentence is nearly always going to be a verb and a particle or two. It's a good anchor point to look for when you're confused. Particles are easily recognizable, and verbs often end with "u", "masu" and so on. This is very handy to know when looking things up, because you'll want to remove the particles.
>I think it would save more time than ignoring it. The good news is that reading some romanji and watching some anime should get you decent way there.
fugggggggg. I'll have to find some good animus to watch then. Last one I watched was Rozen Maiden, and while very good I haven't watched one since on account of not really thinking anything could top Rozen Maiden. The information about sentence structure is very helpful, and hopefully I'll eventually be able to sense the structure too, and particle context. Really though, that structure knowledge should help a crap ton in learning this language.
Found some bilingual anime to watch. Helping a lot more than trying to read it did, I now know that the japanese "f" is a kind of blowing sound, very similar to what you'd do to blow air onto hot liquids. Website showcases hiragana, katakana, japanese, romanji, and finally english subtitles all in one so that's pretty helpful. Feels like I've learned more (not that I necessarily remember them) japanese phrases in this hour than I did in all my previous hours combined, so I think the bilingual anime is a good way to continue.
https://animelon.com/ is the website I was talking about and forgot to paste in for some reason.
Same procedure, another day. More phrases learned, although I may need to kill the romaji subtitles if I ever want to learn the gana/kata/kanji characters properly. More phrases learned though, and like anon stated earlier ITT they do tend to put the "focus" of the sentence at the beginning, and then the following words seem to supplement that focus (that's what I've ascertained so far, could be totally wrong.) More tomorrow, I don't know how effective this method of learning is compared to others but it sure is enjoyable.
such a busy sunday I nearly forgot to do my studies for the day. Since it's watching anime, albeit with the various subtitles, I'm not strictly sure if I can qualify it as study anymore but I am learning words and phrases, primarily. Anyways, it's quite late, so more tomorrow.
busy monday too. I guess "desu" is one of those particles alluded too earlier ITT that get thrown everywhere with a different meaning based on context. Alternatively, I may just not know japanese yet. Probably the latter. Learning more phrases as time goes on, though, the bilingual anime is pretty helpful for that, and especially for pronunciation, such as the last letters of words sometimes simply not being pronounced at all, like the "k" in knight.
Nope, it's a verb, desu. And yes, usually pronounced like "dess" when nothing follows it. Pic related, posted some of these on plw before, I forgot where to find them. When I get finished my vocab lists I'll probably upload a zip of my beginner materials.
>word order affects the emphasis but not not the fundamental meaning.
eh, that's poorly stated, should say something like "clause order." Basically you create phrases and cap them off with particles, and then those phrases can basically go in any order. Bunsetsu means phrase, that's what the first pic represents. It is important to note that some of these phrases will contain particles. For example "kino no tabi" is a full noun-phrase that means "kino's journey." (kino no tabi WA) (anime WO) desu. I believe that's roughly a valid sentence. Titles might need a special particle but I'm too lazy to look that up.
This is an exhaustive list of all the sentence constructions I understand so far:
>sentence = (<phrase> WA) (<phrase> <particle>)* <verb> (<particle>)
>phrase = <adjective> / <noun> / <phrase> <particle> <phrase> / <???>
>particle = wa / wo / ni / ga / de / ...
>noun = ... (VOCAB)
>adjective = ... (VOCAB)
>verb = ... (VOCAB)
Probably looks like gibberish if you haven't studied comp sci or formal languages, but I find it helpful. I know for a fact that there are more ways to construct phrases, so I've left a <???> there. Once I can list the majority of those, I feel like I'll have a pretty complete sense of the grammar. Then I'll need to focus on reading to fill in any blanks.
Another hour concluded. I should probably stick to slice of life shows for clear enunciation of japanese, I think action shows aren't as good for it. I also still find myself looking at the romaji rather than the actual characters in the subtitles. At least it's a habit now.
So if I understand japanese sentence structure right, a sentence like "Jerry kicked the ball" in english should become, in japanese, "Jerry, the ball he kicked"?
>Jerry, the ball he kicked
That's the gist of it yes. Technically your "he" is redundant. Saying"Jerry wa, kare ga...", in english is "Jerry, he kicked the ball." That has a certain feel to it in English, but I don't know if the feeling translates. More than likely "kare ga" is going to be dropped as it's redundant information.
Speaking of dropping words, "the" and "a" are english particles which flat-out don't exist in japanese as particle words. Yet another instance of omitting contextually redundant information. When you say "neko da" and there's one cat, everyone knows you're talking about the one cat. If you say "neko da" and there's three cats, everyone knows you're talking about the three cats. There really is no need to pluralize or specify when the context does not create any confusion. It's both a blessing and curse, because it's quite simple way of doing things, but also pretty foreign to english.
Of course, when you actually need to express things that aren't contextually obvious you have to start using more words, and that's where the curse comes in. You can say "san-nin hito" if it's really important to specify that you're talking about three people. San means three, and nin is a particle which modifies hito to indicate that the count of people is three. There are different counter particles for different categories of things. For people, it's "nin" (as in ningen.) Animals use "hiko." There are a shit ton of these and I doubt it's worth anyone's time to start memorizing them at our level. Just remember the form <number> <particle> <noun> is mostly likely a counter noun phrase. This is why you should at least learn numbers up to ten. Otherwise you'll be fucked at recognizing these. (Fortunately once you know those everything else is pretty easy. Ten is juu, hachi is eight, juu-hachi is eighty. it's literally just like saying "ten eights.")
So plurals are weird, what about referring to a specific thing? There's no "The," but in english we can use "this" or "that" which fortunately do have equivalents in japanese: kore, sore, are, kono, sono, ano. Yeah there's a fuck ton of them. They all basically mean "this" or "that" though. Even in English "this" and "that" basically mean the same thing, just imply different proximity to the speakers. I won't bother to explain each one because I forget, I'm lazy, and like everything else, context makes it pretty obvious what is meant. They sound similar so they're easy to recognize.
Similarly, you'd most likely use a pronoun like "many", "some", "all", if you wanted to say "a ball." Again these are pronouns not particles, because they can be used standalone as if they were nouns nouns. This is speculation on my part, I actually don't know any of these and haven't seen them used. Might be totally wrong.
So to finish this off with the reason why I started typing this, your sentence should look more like:
>Jerry ball kicked
Yeah it makes no sense this way, but that's about it.
Fuck I got carried away.
>"many", "some", "all"
Maybe I should elaborate. When we say "Lets get a ball", that's equivalent to "lets get some ball." When we say "a ball is round," that's like saying "all/most/many balls are round." And because these are pronouns, not particles, you can also say "some/all/many (of these) are balls." They are basically placeholder nouns that can standalone, or be used in constructions to clarify another noun.
Fuck it, this might be confusing too. If I were to write this in "proper" form, it'd be "neko wa desu." BUT you can drop wa, because what's the fucking subject if it's not the cat?
Next, the verb conjugation. Da is literally just desu with a different ending. Verbs typically end with -u or -ru, but they can be made polite/formal with -masu, -imasu. For example, iku and ikimasu. There are other endings which you will eventually want to know which indicate past tense, or negative tense. Good news is that the beginning of the verb will stays the same and will be pretty recognizable in most cases. Desu just happens to be one of the unusual ones in this regard. It's polite form is already desu, not desimasu, which just isn't a word. Da is the informal version.
Conjugations are one of those things where I think getting a feel is more important than memorizing. Especially the polite/informal distinction, which once you can recognize, you can pretty safely ignore. Past and negative tense are pretty important for meaning, so I would study those more carefully though.
early jump on the "studies" today (it's watching anime with hiragana, katakana, japanese and romaji subtitles.) So far as I can tell, "ohayou" (as used with family) and "ohayougozaimasu"(as heard used in a classroom) both mean the same thing, but perhaps one is for informal settings and the other for formal. (>>3037 confirms this, I suppose that means just watching the animes is working a little.)
Still not really having words stick in memory though, closest one off the top of my head is "croquettes" being "krokketes" but I'm 100% sure that's not the proper romaji spelling for it.
That's very interesting, just going for general reference rather than detailed quantities of things. It sounds right too, I haven't seen any shows yet that try to quantify a specific thing.
>past and negative tense
Shall keep an eye out for those, then.
'nother day done. I uhhhhh don't think I learned a single dang thing today, really probably shouldn't try to watch action animes to learn because then I'm not busy looking at the subtitles. Always another go tomorrow though!
slice of life shows are definitely more helpful for learning Japanese than action shows. Seems like the voices are enunciated much more clearly. I may end up needing to find other sources for learning specific words and spelling though, although anime is hands down the best way, I think, to learn Japanese pronunciation for people who don't live in japan, so in that respect they're fantastic. Alternatively, this may still be the way to go because I am learning at least the gist of phrases (not that I can ever remember them to write them down here, but after some repetition they seem to stick, like 'ohayo' for "good morning", 'wakkate'(i don't know if one k or two, or if that's even the term) for "got it", and that's all I can remember right now.
Yep, little things like that are great. A lot of words that I learn now have strong memories associated with them because of anime I've watched. I do recommend you continue your other studies in tandem with this though. Learning bits of grammar and pronunciation will help with listening, and vice versa. Speaking of which, I have some anki cards for kana with audio. Hearing each syllable pronounced is nice. I appreciate how much more consistent some things are in comparison to english.
apparently I can't attach this, here:
about forgot to make my post for the day. Have not yet started studying any grammar, should probably start soon. No phrases particularly stick in mind today, which is why I should probably record it earlier and not nearly forget like I did today.
>files expire after 24 hours or when breaking the ToS
eh, rip. Didn't get to it fast enough.
aaaaalright. That's 5k words smushed down to 300 simple nouns. I've removed all english loan words and have tried to lis tonly the most common synonym, since there are many duplicate words. (Same meaning, different spelling.) I also began moving common categories of words into another file. This includes things like colors, numbers, animals, etc. There's a number of other things that I think I will make categories for, in order to trim the list down a little more.
Oh I forgot to reply. I'll try to reupload that at some point. Hopefully somewhere with a longer expiration period.
>the two text files
arigatou gozaimas (probably butchered the spelling) . More animoo watched, love me some slice of life about single dads and their daughters, very wholesome stuff. Starting to pick up a few more phrases here and there. Those text files do look super neat, will have a peek through them soon. Oyasumi!
'nother hour done. It seems like "wai ne, tai ne, and soi ne" can all be used for "you know?" While "shitteru" seems to be "I know." "Douzo" seems to mean "here you go." Can't say the current one I'm watching is particularly good compared to others I've seen, but it's fantastic for phrases so far.
I wanna learn Korean.
pls study nipnongo with us instead
I wanna learn Italian.
what the hell
I don't have any money, racemixing is bad, and japan is a falling world power. Why should I learn japanese?
jerk off to anime
To me, it's just a stepping stone. Of all foreign languages it's probably the one I'm most familiar with, aside from french, which I detest. If I am reasonably successful (able to understand unsubbed anime) then I may move on to a more useful language, hopefully using the skills I've learned while picking up japanese.
There should be resources in OP for both. I can't help with them though on account of I'm only barely learning nip, but yeah, there are many different resources for many different languages in the OP.
Time to read with snaggle tooth ara-chan. Can barely understand a fucking thing, had to crack open the dictionary. Picked up a few things though, so that's good. Needless to say, I won't be getting to deep into nanahira until I feel comfortable watching some of these random youtube videos.
speaking of dictionaries, here's some sites I'm using right now. Will probably switch to software when I something less kludgy.
I really need to stop waiting until right before I sleep to do my hour of nip holy wew
phrases are nice and all, but like anon stated earlier ITT it's becoming more and more clear I'm going to need to learn grammar to fully figure out how they structure their sentences. I was hoping I could find a consistent pattern, but since the order doesn't resemble english's that's an impossibility at my current skill level. Learning phrases is still fun though.
'nother hour done, albeit still haven't gotten around to learning grammar, so basically just picked up on some more phrases, like "ii ja yo" for "it's so hot." Enjoyable since it's watching anime though so I shan't complain.
puki means fan, I think. chan means "mister" I believe. When you start to recognize enough words you start to figure out where they're placed in the sentence. Also helps that anon pointed out earlier ITT that japanese doesn't use articles. I don't know how effective it is, but this is a very fun way to study japanese.
More phrases kinda learned, I think one was "honnte" which means something I can't remember. I believe it's some kind of question "can I?" confirmation. I'm not sure, I simply don't remember. wakate is one that comes up a lot, can't remember what it means either though. Fun stuff though.
"hontouni" means "truly" or "really." If you check out my grammar list, "hontou" is "truth." It's a really common word, so it's good to know. A lot of adjectives in japanese are just nouns with an "i" ending of some sort. Pretty similar to english. String-y, cheese-y, ease-y. Interestingly, the long "ee" sound is used to imply a sort of "likeness" across both languages.
Despite having now heard "wakate" or "wakkate" (however you spell it) a million times now I still have not managed to grasp its meaning. Gakkou, however, must mean school. Seems like there's a hundred little de's, na',s wa's, and desu's sprinkled around everywhere, which I'm sure are the particles anon mentioned earlier ITT that they really do sprinkle onto everything. With time I may figure out what they represent, since I've been told that japanese doesn't use articles. Still fun studying though.
is this thread about a dedicated effort in making it as confusing as possible to learn japanese by spreading disinfo pretending to act in good faith?
if somebody said something incorrect, why not reply and correct them
thought you already knew japanese treb
I do not know who or what this refers to. Anyway, all two of the anons learning japanese in this thread have pretty clearly stated they don't know what the fuck they're talking about. Any guidance is appreciated.
I think I finally figured out wakkate. I suspect it means "okay" or its synonyms. About all I was able to pick up from today's hour though, sundays are always bloody distracting.
That's near the mark. Wakate is a particular form of the verb wakaru, which means to understand. Wakate is frequently said as a response to a request. So basically the same way we use "okay," "roger," or "understood." You'll definitely hear it's other forms come up as well, 2nd pic related: >>3168
subs on today's episodes were the suck and so I was more busy trying to keep up with subtitles that lagged a good seven seconds behind the actual conversation. Best I could really seem to pick up was that, while "chi" means blood, I'm pretty sure, "a chi" seems to mean "hot." That, or chi simply has multiple meanings that vary based on context. "hidoi" seems to mean "harsh" or its synonyms, while I've heard "yoshi" to both be exclamations of delight and "good dog." Last meaning is probably contextual, just means "good anything." Last few episodes have been like this too, otherwise would make for a pleasant little series to watch and learn from. As it stands, shan't be revisiting it anytime soon.
alas, still stuck with lousy subs. I think I struck on a new discovery though, it's incredibly possible that phrases while change depending on whether or not the speaker is a man or woman, At the least, in the animoo when two speakers spoke the same phrase back to back, one word was changed although both phrases were translated to be the same in the subtitles. "doushite" seems to be the standard parlance for question asking. Looking forward to when subtitles match the proper time again. Will be like paradise.
'nother hour done. watashi means something elusive, and the next show has properly placed subs. "misu" (or misa?) seems to mean water. I think it was misu. still a thousand desu ne's, once I start actually studying grammar that'll probably help a lot with reading.
more phrases learned, "chotto mattai" seems to be a standard one, probably "wait a small amount of time." in its most literal translation. Subs just call it "wait a sec, " so it's also possible that chotto actually means second. This method is working well for at least understanding phrases and speech, although particle meaning in general still eludes me, the "ii wa no da desu" etc. etc.
hold on are you trying to learn without reading off any kind of manual and just watching anime with subs? you'll never learn anything but a handful of words and ready-to-use sentences not much different than people than say "homelette du fromage, baguette au revoir" and pretend to speak french.
fucking get a textbook and read nigger read, what the fuck are you even doing, you'd know some basic grammar, vocabulary and how to fucking write kana and kanji by now if you'd READ.
want a good Japanese dictionary? use this ---> https://www.edrdg.org/cgi-bin/wwwjdic/wwwjdic
I am not very good at Japanese myself, but I try to help you (i am actually trying to study Japanese from a textbook)
pro-tip: To learn japanese (or any other foreign language), don't just try to translate sentences word-by-word, instead try to learn to think in japanese (try to learn how japanese works)
desu (polite form of da) is a verb or verb-like word (called copula in linguistics)
desu means is when making a statement. (if you are talking about the location of where something you must use aru/iru (depends on the word), for example "the book is on the table" = "Hon wa teeburu ni aru")
For example: Atsui, desu ne = "it's warm, isn't it?" ne particle is frequently used to make the sentence sound more polite or make the statement sound more soft (not in romantic sense) Wa particle is used to mark the topic of the sentence: Boku wa Doitsujin desu = I am German (person=jin). Actually you can often drop the "Boku wa" part. for example if someone asks where you are from you could just reply "Doitsujin desu" If you want to say that you aren't a student, you can say "(Watashi wa) gakusei ja arimasen" (or (Watashi wa) gakusei dewa arimasen) You can use ka particle when you want a confirmation (a yes/no question): Chiruno-san wa kyooshi desu ka. = "is Cirno-san a teacher?" (pro-tip: avoid translating ~san; it doesn't translate well into English)
>Wakate is a particular form of the verb wakaru, which means to understand
you probably want to use the polite ~masu forms, for example: wakarimashita.
also, i just want to point out that wakarimasen means i don't understand
>chi (or shi)
in japanese, there a ton of words that have similar pronunciation but different meaning and spelling (kanji)
yup, it means means "cruel" or "heartless"
watashi means "I" (there are other words also like watashi: boku (either a bit informal or perhaps boyish) and atashi (girly, cute)) You should avoid referring to others using a personal pronoun in Japanese, unless you know that person well.
You are correct that mizu (sic) means water
chotto means "little" and matte means "wait"
say "chotto matte, kudasai" to make it polite request. (kudasai means "please")
Politeness is pretty complex topic in Japanese. basically, words have declensions that make the word more polite but there are also different vocabularies for making the speech extra polite.
also, I found this website helpful
You can also use it to practice kana (select the desired hiragana/katakana from options)
this is why (((rōmaji))) is harmful. you meant to write kyoushi
in addition to practicing kana at https://itazuraneko.neocities.org/learn/kana.html
You should also write kana on (squared) paper or print out hiragana/katakana practice sheets. You can view the correct stroke order (very important) at Wikipedia, for example:
> Individual kana https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_%28kana%29
> Hiragana: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiragana#Stroke_order_and_direction
> Katakana: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katakana#Stroke_order
> here is example of hiragana practice sheet: https://files.tofugu.com/articles/japanese/2016-04-05-hiragana-chart/matome-renshuu.pdf
> and here an example katakana practice sheet: https://storage.googleapis.com/ll-app/docs/jp/Katakana%20practice%20sheet.pdf
(note that ヱ and ヰ or ゑ and ゐ and are unused characters in modern Japanese)
>not reading the whole thread before posting
>You should also write kana
for someone who's just beginning to learn the language surely it would be more worthwhile to just learn to type kana? Unless you're living in Japan it seems like it won't pay off for a long time.
'nother hour of watching the animu done. "okii" is big.
Yeah, I'll have to start soon. Watching the anime is great for picking up words here and there, as well as learning how they pronounce certain letters, but it's probably not the way to go to learn how to write it (which was my original goal, heh.)
Thanks a bunch, all very helpful, particularly that "desu" is used for statements. The "wa" coming BEFORE the topic, rather than after, is also really helpful knowledge.
I have found that copying and pasting curious looking kana helped to standardize it for translating from the kana tables.
Found this thread via overboard
>surely it would be more worthwhile to just learn to type kana?
No, that's a trap for plebs. Writing the kana helps you actually memorize/recognize them (trust me) and knowing how to write katakana helps you learn kanji later. And learning kana feels even more boring if you already know how to speak but can't write (except perhaps in rōmaji) Also, Rōmaji teachers you bad habits (like not remembering that ō = ou)
>Watching the anime is great for picking up words here and there, as well as learning how they pronounce certain letters,
But remember to be careful: In anime, the speech is more direct (considered rude IRL) and the characters often try to sound more cute or manly.
>But remember to be careful: In anime, the speech is more direct (considered rude IRL) and the characters often try to sound more cute or manly.
That's interesting. I didn't know that. Are (most) slice of life episodes accurate? I kind of assume the action genres would be like how you describe. Either way, really a good thing to keep an eye on.
A little clarification, just in case: desu has the same meaning as "is" or "be" (more or less)
>Are (most) slice of life episodes accurate?
The simple and short answer is "No".
You can pick up news words here and there but there aren't any guarantees whether the style of the sentence is okay or not. This "problem" (really, it's a feature) affects all anime. The politeness can be pretty complex topic in Japanese language (especially for a beginner), and it makes the most sense to learn the "standard" politeness level (i.e. how you would talk to people who just met or how you would speak if you visited Japan as a tourist.) I suggest that you pick up a textbook. Supplementing your Japanese learning with anime is okay (actually even a good idea to keep you motivated), but you can't learn to speak Japanese from anime alone. Whether anime is good for learning pronunciation can be a bit debatable, too, I guess. Some anime characters have a accent/speak dialect, so it can be a bit counter-productive. I guess you could use desu as an example: some anime characters pronounce it as "desu" while all textbooks tell you to pronounce it as "des" (Like Sanae Dekomori from Chuunibyou demo Koi ga Shitai! would pronounce it) Obviously, on some instances it is even worse: like Cerberus, aka Kero-chan, (he has heavy accent) from Cardcaptor Sakura, for example. Textbooks teach you what is usually referred to as "Tokyo dialect" or, more correctly, Standard Japanese.
Are you native English speaker? If so, Genki series is considered the "gold standard" Japanese textbook for English speakers (I heard Japanese For Busy People is fine, too, but it's pretty fast paced). If you aren't a native English speaker, I suggest you pick up a book that's written in your native language since what you find difficult in Japanese language aren't necessarily the same things as what a native English speaker has trouble with, and a lot of explanations can be hard to follow (especially instructions on how to pronounce Japanese words)
You might also want to look into Tae Kim's Guide to Japanese Grammar: http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/grammar and its translations: http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/translations/
Learned probably the first big word just from the watching of the animu, which is "tomodachi" for "friend." It's possibly my first noun that's not part of a greeting phrase or an adjective of some kind, which is neat. I'm sure anons ITT are very correct that this is an incredibly inefficient way to learn japanese, but it is fun to watch animus that I would never have watched otherwise. they're better than I thought they would be. Had I watched these as a kid, I would probably have become a weeb back then, because they are bredy gud. "maji ka" translated in the subs as "for real" although it's probably a more general "really?" kind of statement.
Yup, native english speaker. Have definitely noticed the accents you speak of, some anime really do pronounce things differently than others, and like you allude too I've heard "desu" pronounced as such generally when it's in the middle of the sentence, but usually the last vowel fades away when "desu" (and other particles) are at the end of the sentence. I'll have to track down that Genki series you speak of, I think that will be very helpful too.
And thanks to everyone ITT for the advice, too. Hopefully I'll be able to pay it forward eventually by properly learning the language.
>This "problem" (really, it's a feature) affects all anime.
This is actually the reason why I suggested watching some anime to (>>2886)
Though it seems he has decided to focus primarily on watching anime, at least for the time being, which isn't exactly what I suggested. I've certainly spent time watching anime without studying and I wouldn't call it worthless, but I only meant that it would be supplemental.
There are many weird intricacies and differences between japanese and english. Frequently it's hard to know what is relevant. You're right to warn about potentially "improper" ways of speaking, but not knowing about them is a problem too. Sure, if you walk down the street saying "desu wa!" everyone is going to think you're a flaming faggot. On the other hand, if somebody says it jokingly and you are completely baffled and think it's some special particle/verb conjugation, you're going to waste a lot of time trying to figure out something totally redundant. That's the value of listening to the language spoken in a wide variety of contexts. You get a sense for the cadence and structure of things.
>Though it seems he has decided to focus primarily on watching anime, at least for the time being, which isn't exactly what I suggested.
the anime is honestly way better than it has any right to be, which has both taught me how japanese is pronounced, with some differences, and served to entirely distract me from my original goal :^)
> I'll have to start soon.
START NOW NIGGER
>Watching the anime is great for picking up words here and there,
there isn't a single common word that you'll get from anime and won't get from any basic book, listening to anime is only good to get a better understanding of colloquial and less formal speech, but that's also true for any original language media.
>as well as learning how they pronounce certain letters
again if you used a book, and listened to the audio they come with, you'd get that too.
> but it's probably not the way to go to learn how to write it
it most certainly is not
I'll say it again GET FUCKING GENKI AND READ THAT SHIT NIGGER
For today's hour of study, I began on the Genki textbooks (luckily, they were found in the links in the OP so I didn't have to dig very much for them.) I had already constructed the kana tables from previous studies, so that saved some time, and thus I was able to reach the "common greetings" section of lesson 1. One curiosity, while most of the symbols for "konnichiwa" as written from hiragana match what they're supposed to, the "wa" sound at the end is actually written using the hiraganic "ha" symbol, rather than the hiraganic "wa" symbol as expected. The audio clip, however, still sounds like a "wa" at the end to my ears. Perhaps a typo, or is "konnichiwa" actually transcribed in hiragana as "konnichiha" ?
I checked a dictionary, which spells it こんにちわ. Strangely enough, the subject particle "wa" is written はso it's either an alternative spelling or a typo. I don't really know why the particle wa isn't written as わ, but it's probably just a quirk of modern pronounciation.
> is "konnichiwa" actually transcribed in hiragana as "konnichiha" ?
Yes, because the "wa" in "konnichiwa" is actually the topic particle. The topic particle "ha" is written as は but pronounced like "wa" (it's special case)
To clarify: Only the topic particle は is pronounced like "wa". When は is not used as the topic particle, it's pronounced like "ha".
>I began on the Genki textbooks
at fucking last, that's the first step towards leaving niggerdom status behind. since you got the same pack I got you should have two genki books, the textbook and the workbook, as well as all the audio for each dialogue and exercise, now what you're gonna do is routine your work like this, by the way you'll need a notebook
>READ chapter in order, no skipping or skimming through it, read everything
>LISTEN to the audio paired with it whenever there is some FUCKING DO IT
>then DO the exercises that you get at the end or sprinkled through the chapter, yes write that shit on the notebook with your HANDS AND DON'T FUCKING SKIP THEM
done that you move onto the workbook and
>DO EVERY FUCKING EXERCISE OF THAT CHAPTER, NO NOT 9/10 NOT 87% ALL, YOU DO THEM ALL, READ THE SHIT, YOU LISTEN TO THE AUDIO FILES, YOU REPEAT ALL THE SYLLABLES LIKE A ROBOT AND GET IT THROUGH YOUR THICK FUCKING SKULL AND THEN YOU WRITE THEM DOWN ON YOUR FUCKING NOTEBOOK
this is if you want PROGRESS and not STAGNATION, you should be able to accomplish this in roughly a week time if you're an average non retarded nigger with at least 100 IQ, meaning, since there are 12 chapters in "genki I" in JUST THREE MONTHS you will have completed the first book all of its exercises and will have gone from straight zero to solid knowledge and understanding of the writing system, pronunciation, basic grammar, hundreds of nouns, verbs and sentences and about 5% of the must have kanji.
>while most of the symbols for "konnichiwa" as written from hiragana match what they're supposed to, the "wa" sound at the end is actually written using the hiraganic "ha" symbol, rather than the hiraganic "wa" symbol as expected. The audio clip, however, still sounds like a "wa" at the end to my ears. Perhaps a typo, or is "konnichiwa" actually transcribed in hiragana as "konnichiha" ?
that's because the topic particle "wa" is actually spelled ha but ONLY when it's used as a topic particle
>then why the fuck is it ha in this word
because konnichiwa and konbanwa are contraptions that are actually meant to be a longer sentence and had a topic particle in it, so it's retained as wa instead of ha. you'll find later that there's a similar occurance where the verb object marker is pronounced "o" while the syllable used it "wo", and then other shit as well which I'm not gonna explain.
Today's hour is done.
Iterrasshai (the romaji spelling) is a weird one, spelled in hiragana as I t te ra s shi y i. Going assumption will be that "shiyi ----> sha" for the future, we'll see if that holds or not. Genki sure does break down greetings fairly thoroughly though, and I massively appreciate the demonstration of the characters that represent doubled consonants in action,
Hopefully I cover particles with these Genki textbooks soon, feels like the key to reading japanese at this point is understanding particles.
>three months time
I don't know if I'll be that quick with just an hour a day and frankly room temperature IQ, took me two hours combined to finish recording all the greetings in their hiragan, romajic, and english translations, and I'm bredy sure I could only get about 7/11 of the proper greetings used in the bit that follows them directly. but these are great textbooks for recognizing characters on sight so far, rather than needing a look up, as well as something handy like realizing the difference between the hiraganic "i" and "ri" is that the left stroke is much tinier than the right in "ri," and sometimes they appear to glue together. Genki was sure a good call though, high praise for it so far.
>Going assumption will be that "shiyi ----> sha"
In terms of romaji reading, that is, of course not in terms of actual character reading.
It's great that you actually started! Just keep on practicing. (it's the only way you can learn Japanese)
It's actually itterasshai or いってらっしゃい (notice the little っ and the little ゃ )
しゃ = Sha and って = Tte
In other words, the little tsu and the little ya have special meanings:
Don't worry too much about this mistake. Native English speakers often have trouble with double consonants (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemination) and vowel length, in my experience.
> feels like the key to reading japanese at this point is understanding particles.
Yup, particles and suffixes are one of the most important concepts. The textbook introduces them one-by-one in the coming chapters, I believe.
> I don't know if I'll be that quick with just an hour a day
Don't worry too much about time, if you are self-studying. Just make sure you understand everything before you move on to the next chapter and you will be fine.
Mostly more words today, which I don't complain over since it's helping me memorize hiraganic and katakanic letters, although I am going to write the hiraganic and katakanic tables/voiced sounds side by side tomorrow that way I don't have to keep flipping between them in different places in my notebook. Also, I think japs spell english better then we do. Consider for example the word "ski." The katakanic romanization for this spells it as "sukii." I stared at this for a bit, and then realized that you cannot spell "ski" without the u sound that automatically, but ever so faintly, shows up when you go "suhkee." Why we choose to just abolish some letters when they represent sounds that definitely exist in saying words, I have no idea.
>you cannot spell "ski" without the u sound that automatically, but ever so faintly, shows up when you go "suhkee."
You're making yourself hear things; there is no phonetic or phonemic vowel between the /s/ and /k/ in 'ski'.
>You're making yourself hear things
Maybe. But also the /s/ and /k/ consonants more or less force your tongue into the position of a short u vowel. There's always a little bit of a gap between consecutive syllables so it's not a crazy idea to think of it as suh-KEE with heavy stress on the second syllable. This idea doesn't hold for most other loan words though.
Really enjoying genki, managed to squish the hiragana, katakana, pronounced sounds, and "kyu" type combos onto one notebook page for easy access. Next was more words, but now I'm able to recognize some symbols on sight, like the hiraganic i, ka, ga, ri, and katakanic a off the top of my head, and then two of the hiraganic r_ characters, ru and ro (had to look that one up), are differentiated by the little bubble at the bottom stroke, ru having the bubble and ro not. Characters that go, for example, rei in hiraganic are always written as ree in romanji for some reason, not sure why, and then the "kyu"s and ilk seem to get mashed into "ku"s in the romanjii as well. Glad the romanjii is just a learning aid and not gospel by any stretch, if I remember my genki reading correctly, but extremely handy having the hiragana and katakana tables squashed into one page for fast access.
learn the kana fast, get anki and do the kana drills, if you don't have all the kana memorized in 2-3 weeks at most you're a fucking dunce
the best way to use Anki (or make your own flashcards) and practice kana by writing individual kana by hand until you know most of them and after that you should start answering your exercises in kana (and make your own exercises. just pick a few words from the chapter vocabularies and write them in rōmaji or English and translate them into kana)
No progress made today, wew. Was too busy falling asleep in my chair trying to study via putting pencil to paper, just an exhausting day apparently. Essentially, was able to record down some family words like obaasan, okasan, etc and then brain largely refused to function upon finally hitting the section that began discussing nouns in japanese sentences while largely ignoring the subject, as well as "desu" and other particles. So, finished out the hour with a cursory reading that was as heavy studying as I could apparently handle for today. And now, one last thing to do before I sleep, and god help me through it because my brain is scrambled eggs at the moment.
>while largely ignoring the subject
in the sense that Japanese largely ignore the subject of sentences according to the genki books (and other anons ITT) .
> No progress made today, wew.
It's ok. Just make sure you continue your studies tomorrow!
Usually the unnecessary stuff is omitted in sentences, unless the context alone isn't enough make the meaning of the sentence (more or less) clear.
Am reaching a really neat part of the book, have now learned about the "desu" (essentially for stating information about someone/thing, if I understand it right), "wa" for linking subjects to objects. For example, I believe "watashi wa (american) desu" should roughly translate to "I am american." That said, a far cleaner way to state this is "(american) desu", since the "ka" particle can be added to turn it from a statement into a question, ie. (american) desu ka. Finally, the no particle links nouns together, although I'm still learning about it so it probably has more uses.
More kana memorized now too, writing them out in sentences helps for fast memorization.
Correct me if I'm wrong on any of these particles and their purposes, that's just as I understood them from the readings, but really Genki is fantastic, feels like once you understand japanese sentence structure it's just one final step to understanding japanese itself, and that's increasing one's vocabulary with the various kana and kanji.
は marks topics, not subjects. It just happens that the topic and subject are usually the same, especially in simple sentences. です is a copula; it means exactly the same thing as "be" (but isn't used in all of the same places). の is the genetive case particle, but also an inflected form of です; as such [noun¹]の[noun²] can indicate a lot of relationships between the two, and specifically, the most important one that Genki doesn't cover is "[noun²] that/who is [noun¹]".
All that said, you're understanding everything at the level the textbook is trying to teach right now; good job.
today's hour done earlier than usual. Haven't really learned any new particles that I can think of, just special rules for the "わ" particle that's spelled out using the "は" character, but spelled using the standard "わ" character when not a particle and not used at the end of certain phrases like こんいちは (konnichiwa). Started learning numbers 0-10, but only made it to one because I spent some 10-15 minutes figuring out that the "さ" character it used to describe an exception to いち in how it's pronounced had the bottom stroke linked to the rest of the character for spelling out いつさい .Bamboozled me for a while trying to find it, the character I had in my chart had the top two strokes and the bottom stroke completely separated such that the top two were floating overhead it. I just have to remember that sometimes strokes get linked together. Fun stuff either way.
each day's hour of japanese studying seem to flow right by now. It's extremely fun being able to match sounds to symbols in your head, and just writing them out repeatedly and in different contexts and sentences seem to be enough to start burning them into memory, which is very helpful. As for today, finished out some numbers, if I can get them from memory it goes rei ichi ni san ? ? ? ? hachi jichi ? for 0-10. Will have to review tomorrow to make sure I get them all proper, "ni" for 2 may be incorrect, although I think it's accurate, and jichi is likely incorrect. Also learned the title is chan for children, kun for boys, sensee for doctors/professors, and san is the generic title, and that you never title yourself, just other people.
I'm a slow learner, I'm thoroughly enjoying this to be sure.
kaki?me is what the sign reads, which means who knows what, but either way a few steps closer. the bubble by it reads yatsuchiyatsutaga. Not sure what it means, but miles more than I ever thought I'd be able to do when I first started studying honestly.
more fun with numbers today. finished the first practice session, got the first variation on all of them but the ones that had a second variation I missed. At least they're written down from the lesson as a whole, so if I'm ever hurting for them I can find them, but for now I have the main variant memorized. Thusly, it goes
rei ichi ni san yon go roku nana hachi kuu juu. (kiyuu jiyuu if spelling by strict hiragana) . The number system seems to be fairly comparable to english's, surprisingly, with the notable exception that, for something like 13, it's jiyuusan rather than ours, which mentions the three first as in (thir-teen) while theirs indicates it's the 10's first with jiyuu, then san afterwards for the 1's place.
Once again, humongous thanks to anons who mentioned genki as a learning source ITT. These are really good textbooks.
Up to section IV-a of the first genki lesson so far for today's hour, and now sick of numbers. Thankfully, we're getting back into phrases, and I was able to correctly state that "my teacher" translates to わたしのせんせい
and thus, thanks in small part to the grueling numbers, more gana characters are memorised, and alternative drawings of hiraganic characters (space between strokes, either filled out or not) no longer trip me up like they used too. More tomorrow, exhausted for now, had to entertain company and that always drains me.
good thing I have a solid hour scheduled every day or today's bit would have made me flat out quit, now that I'm on to section 5 of the first lesson, which is constructing sentences that describe a person in one facet or another like たけしさんはにほんじんです which should be "Mr. Takeshi is Japanese." I also have a difficult time remembering to add the honorifics at the ends of the surnames. I'm very glad that the audio tracks came along with genki so I don't have to go digging for new words for these descriptors.
Studying for 1 hour each day is better than not studying daily (even if you compensated by increasing the length of each study session!) Also, one more thing: Do not neglect practicing Katakana after you have learned hiragana. I made the mistake of not learning katakana properly and I gave up once I realized that learning Kanji (and Japanese) is impossible if you don't learn both hiragana and katakana before starting to practice kanji.
I'll have to figure out a way to memorize both hiragana and katakana effectively, if for no other reason than to no longer have to flip back to gana/kata charts. Emphasis on effectively, because so far the only way I remember about half the ones I know being anything is through muscle memory, otherwise I can just look at 'em and they'll go right over my head. It might be worth it to pause genki until I have both the hiragana and katakana charts memorized, then return to where I was. I'll see how I do with tomorrow's hour of just memorizing gana and kana.
It's a good thing you mentioned katakana specifically. I'd largely written it off after learning it was only for foreign words or to describe foreign things, but if it comes back to haunt you for kanji I'd better learn it after.
Hopefully you will re-acquire your desire to finish learning nipponese. My secret is a schedule I stick too every day so I do the thing even if it's the last thing I want to do on earth simply because it's on the schedule and I'll be able to check it off as done for the day.
write them a hundred times each on your notebook, also make paper cards with them on it and the roumaji on the back, mix them like a deck of cards and try and then go through them trying to say what they are out loud, anki works too though it's less involved that's how I did it when I went to school and I memorised both hiragana and katakana in a month time.
and try to avoid as much as possible reading the roumaji script
I like that card idea, thank you, I'll give that a go. Tomorrow should be productive with that method.
> if it comes back to haunt you for kanji
Each kanji has 2 readings (that you need to worry about): one of the readings is written in hiragana and the other is written in katakana.
For example person (the "jin" or "hito" in "Nihonjin " and "Tonari no hito ") is written like this: 「 人 」
Note:「 and 」are quotation marks, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quotation_mark#Chinese,_Japanese,_and_Korean
Moreover, each Katakana character (and Hiragana character, but it's less clear) is based on Kanji.
> Hopefully you will re-acquire your desire to finish learning nipponese.
This thread has provided the much needed inspiration but, at the moment, I am not sure whether to start studying Latin or Japanese.
> write them a hundred times each on your notebook, also make paper cards
This is very good advice. Just make sure to make each kana/kanji large enough; I usually used 6-8 squares for each character when using regular squared paper, and once I learned to write the character, I reduced the amount of squares to 4.
(((rōmaji))) is a trap for beginners. It looks easier (and perhaps even better than kana) but rōmaji only hinders your progress. imo, rōmaji is only good for karaoke if you can't read kana.
Finished the cards today, I just slapped together the hiragana/katakana symbols on the same side and then the accompanying sound on the other side. I love them to death already, gives me something to read when I'm on the toilet. I also didn't worry about the combined sounds, since those are just two characters mashed together anyways, so that seemed redundant and I'll save on cards for future kanji. Fun hour though.
Those flash cards work extremely well. At the end of the hour, I was able to correctly give the sound for all the hiragana symbols in a go through them. If I can repeat it again for tomorrow's hour, I'll start working on the katakana side of the cards, but either way that's a massive win. It looks like
To put it in practice, the banner in the comic in OP reads "kaki(zo?maybe wo. Official guess is a "zo," I think those are weirdly drawn diacritic marks.)me. The bubble beside it then is "yatsuchiyatsutaga." No idea what these mean, but either way it's neat being able to read 'em. Genki should take care of that, and the textbooks should be much easier to progress through once the characters are all memorized.
>give me something to read
aren't you fucking doing the fucking exercises on genki? I told you to do them nigger
Genki is on my computer in PDF form, and while I do have a laptop it's very bulky and I don't like to use it on the toilet. so I use my gana/kata flash cards instead.
>Genki is on my computer in PDF form
>while I do have a laptop it's very bulky and
HAVE YOU CONSIDERED USING A DESK
Oh, I haven't stopped doing genki, I've just paused it as I memorize the hiraganic and katakanic characters, which was, I believe, an important foundational step that I skipped. So far, hiraganic characters are memorized, and probably about 30% of the katakanic characters are now memorized with today's hour of study. Once these are memorized, it will be right back to the Genki books, which are really excellent, I'm simply trying to ensure I have the proper foundation laid out to learn on.
YOU'RE WASTING TIME, LEARNING THE KANA AND DOING THE EXERCISES GO HAND IN HAND, WHAT ARE YOU DOING
>LEARNING THE KANA AND DOING THE EXERCISES GO HAND IN HAND
Oh. Yeah, just wasting the time then. Today's wasted time has roughly eight katakanic characters left to memorize at this point I'm so close it's gotten personal, so I must push through to the end which is tomorrow
So, one more day of study until I'm productive again essentially, right now it's just hubris and ego in memorizing these characters.
Finished the memorizations with 15 minutes to spare, and so back to genki. While I could now call to memory the characters that represents sounds, this did not aid me in spelling Seoul. I have no idea how to spell that word. Now that I think about it a bit more, it's probably a kind of se-i-yu-ru or something, so like セイユル . I really have no idea though, spelling out l's, I'm sure, just gets replaced by r's but there are many vowels to slap onto the back of it and I'm still unsure which one belongs.
Either way, nice to be back to genki and not have to consult hiragana/katakana charts nearly as much as I used to need too.
Easiest way to check a spelling of a word/name is to go to Wikipedo and change the language to 日本語
It seems that Seoul is actually ソウル (compare this how Seoul is pronounced in English)
When you are trying to figure out what a loanword means you should say it out loud: What does 「セルフサービス」 mean? self-service, http://nihongo.monash.edu/cgi-bin/wwwjdic?1MDJ%A5%BB%A5%EB%A5%D5%A5%B5%A1%BC%A5%D3%A5%B9
> spelling out l's, I'm sure, just gets replaced by r
Yup, in Japanese language there isn't a L-sound or a R-sound but rather a sound that's in between L and R (the sound is written using R in rōmaji)
That's interesting, and makes more sense then the gobbledygook I guessed about. Thanks for that reference too, I'll remember it.
IT'S NOT INTERESTING AT ALL, YOU SHOULD ALREADY KNOW THAT BY NOW HAD YOU LISTENED TO ME AND READ THE TEXTBOOK AND DONE THE EXERCISES OF THE WORKBOOKWHILE LEARNING THE KANA INSTEAD OF JUST FOCUSING ON ONE THING
IT'S ALREADY BEEN 3+ WEEKS AND YOU AREN'T EVEN DONE WITH ONE CHAPTER
Yeah, you're right. Ultimately I was able to put down a few characters from memory, but I think the flash cards were time wasted and that I would have been better served working through genki. Hurt more than helped, in fact, since I need to review the rules for numbers again tomorrow, as I could only effectively remember 1-8 and forgot the rules for 10's and up on them. Will probably do a review of the previous exercises for first chapter too, that way I can have the actual queries committed to memory.
The lucky thing is that I do this for an hour indefinitely, so I'll either die or learn japanese, whichever comes first.
>I think the flash cards were time wasted and that I would have been better served working through genki. Hurt more than helped, in fact,
no you jibber jabbering mongoloid, you were supposed to do BOTH at the same time, use the cards AND work your way through the textbook+exercises.
you were supposed to do a little of everything instead of just a lot of one thing, you CAN'T learn all the numbers from 1 to 100000000000000000 in one sitting, you can't learn all the kana in one sitting, you can't learn all the grammar in one sitting. and the good thing is you DON'T have to because you DON'T want to do that, you have to diversify what you're learning drop feeding bits of each
you eat all the food in a balanced manner not too much of somethig or else you'll get a deficiency in nutrients in one place and an excess in the other
you need to fill a line horizontally to clear it and you need multiple blocks to do so, you can't do it spamming the same block vertically over and over
>hitting the gym
you work different parts of the body not just your arms or your legs unless you want to look like popeye or a t-rex
in short, fuck you. why do I have to plan your shit, you should be paying me for this. do exactly this for the first chapter but generally applies to every other chapter
>first off do your cards but NOT ALL OF THEM AT ONCE, start with 15 hiragana/katakana/kanji characters or something
>then move onto the textbook and TRY to read the dialogue every chapter starts with, it doesn't matter if you can't read much, read WHAT YOU CAN
>DON'T FUCKING READ THE TRANSLITERATION OF THE CHARACTERS
>then get your audio and LISTEN to the slant eyes speak the dialogue you just tried to read and try to follow the text with your eyes
>then do repetition audio exercise where it feeds you the lines one by one and gives you a bit of time to repeat them out loud
>NOW you can move onto the actual lesson, read that shit nigger READ IT ALL
>done that you can start doing the exercises on the textbook and I swear to fuck you best write that shit down because not only it teaches you how to write, it helps a ton consolidating shit and committing it to memory
>YES it's fine if you have to go back and glance at the rules and whatever else, YES it's fine if you have to go back and glance at the kana, YES it's fine if you have to go back and glance at the vocabulary with time you'll eventually learn those things by heart because of all the REPETITION, REPETITION, REPETITION, THAT'S THE POINT OF THE EXERCISES
>YES THEY CAN BE BORING YES YOU HAVE TO PUT IN SOME EFFORT TOUGH LUCK PAL THAT'S LIFE YOU PUT IN EFFORT AND YOU GET RESULTS YOU DON'T PUT IN EFFORT YOU GET FUCKING NOTHING
>finished with the textbook exercises you move onto the workbook and do MORE fucking exercises, you do them ALL, you do them from numero 1 to numero LAST fucking exercise, no skipping and you do the ones with audio as well
>finished that you can go back to the dialogue at the beginning and be in AWE that now you can actually read and understand some of it, getting that sweet sweet dopamine hit that makes you want to continue
>obviously you won't be done with one chapter in one day, so just start from where you left off but do your card drills before, every single FUCKING day until you know them perfectly. ALSO WHY THE FUCK ONLY ONE HOUR ONE HOUR IS NOTHING DO TWO AT LEAST.
boom, done, now you do the same for every fucking chapter, just replace the hiragana with katakana once you've learned the hiragana, and then replace the katakana with the kanji once you're done with that as well.
also if you have a CIA phone I recommend getting obenkyo, that will be super useful for kanji later, it also has similar drills to ank as well as so other bells and whistles, in fact I kinda prefer it to anki.
fuck you again, you made me effort post on a shitposting board goddamn.
I don't think he's taking it easy.
oh dear, sorry about that. Thank you for those instructions, they're very thorough and I'll implement them for today's study and onwards, I hope I'll be able to pay it forward in the future by translating something from japanese. I now do a half hour for flash cards and then a full hour for genki alone (I try to up commitments in baby steps so I don't burn out on projects, like I've done that in the past. If I don't feel burnout coming on in the hour and a half, then two hours shouldn't be a problem. LIkewise, if two doesn't bring on any burnout then 2.5 hours and so on.) I've saved your instructions too, so even if the board explodes I won't lose them and so you won't have to type them out again. Thanks again, my learning shall, I think, be greatly accelerated using these methods.
After receiving some very good instructions, I went ahead and restarted chapter 1 today along with the introduction to make sure I skip absolutely nothing this time around. I have now concluded the first practice with greetings. I also felt no burnout of any sort doing an hour and a half, and so I shall advance it to 2 hours tomorrow, one half hour for gana/kata memorization (which will evolve to kanji with time), then the other hour and a half for genki. forgive my cautiousness reimu sensei, it is my nature.
>he was skipping stuff even though I had told him NOT to skip anything before
Today's studies done. Not too much to report, I am glad I restarted since I caught things I glossed over before. Is tsu always a silent sound, since su exists, and would that also apply to dzu and zu? Will keep an eye out for that in the future, in every word of the genki dialogue that included it, tsu was silent (only about 3 words so far though.) Went through some more vocab too, managed to pick up the ...ji ending this time around for time, jin (I think this one was "half"), nensee for inquiry as to year in university, go for language.
yes, sadly, I treated it a lot more casually on the first read through than currently.