/japan/ - militarized easiness

for those we cherish, we die in glory

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keep minority spirit

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This is where the imbiber of the hehpill pretends to learn LEARNS foreign languages so he can insult jannies polylingually to better read mangos and mango accessories. While the average anon CANNOT learn a foreign language or english ffs this doesn't necessarily mean you can't either give up and rage at brazilians in dota it's a better use of your time 
More language torrents (holy crap there's like 80 of them, you could learn polish here and confuse the heck out of the poles on tg)
Ten billion FREE books on languages
Even moar books, these ones on linguistics what's the difference lol idunno
This one comes from an anon who claims to be ukranian, so it's probably the good stuff (allegedly commercial courses)
This one comes with pictures as well as yet more books
I myself will be learning nip first, and if I can pull that off then it'll just be two more steps until I'm the de facto god of all imageboards existing now and in the future.
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Here is a picture that gives what is probably false hope. I shall be following it because I am prone to the promise of "easy."
Replies: >>2639 >>2805
please report on youre progress kudasaimasu
>I myself will be learning nip first, and if I can pull that off then it'll just be two more steps until I'm the de facto god of all imageboards existing now and in the future.
Replies: >>2647
Progress: Chart templates are filled out for the kana (not filled in yet, just rows and tables starting with consonants and vowels), and some special rules for the kana are also written out (long consonants, the dakuon, the handakuon, a warning to not confuse long vowels for unlinked vowels, and other things. Basically up to page 14 of "A guide to learning Hiragana and Katakana" by Kenneth G. Henshall and Tetsuo Takagaki. 
Plan is to do at least an hour a day of study, so as to not burn out but still make steady progress until I can at least properly read the mangos and the vidya.
Replies: >>2659
More progress: Holy wew finally made it through this a whole slew of special rules (written down, so if I'm lucky I'll remember one outta twenty), and finally started filling out the kana charts themselves. Basically, now at the fun part. Probably a smart way for him to have written it out, if he put the special rules at the end I probably would have stopped caring and gone on to the Kanji. One more hour's worth wrapped up, soon I shall read the forbidden nip comics and actually learn about the cute little 2hus I frequently masturbate too admire the artistic skill of.
Replies: >>2662
So last time I posted I had practiced reading kana to the point where I could piece together sentences. I attempted to read some of yotsuba, but this proved to been futile; my vocabulary is near non-existent. For what it's worth, pronouncing the furigana felt pretty natural, but I'm at the point where I really need materials that are at my level.

I used anki, but barely anything sticks even after using it daily for a number of weeks. The card packs I found had a lot of irrelevant vocab for a beginner, things like days of the week, large numbers (>100), and other retarded shit like including words like temple and gold before house or yen. I never looked too closely into how anki worked, so maybe it adds random cards from the set, but either way it's pretty dumb. Can't remember what the packs were, but I'll find them again in a bit. 

What I really would like is a pack of the most common nouns and verbs, and some simple furigana reading to familiarize myself with common sentence structures. Are there any dick-and-jane tier reading materials?

In the process of all this I've become somewhat skeptical of the spaced repetition method. It seems pretty obvious that it is a terrible for forming new memories. I am pretty sure its sole value is to help you to not forget things you already know. As such, I'll probably just replace anki with a script and text file scraped together from different packs of my own curation. My time is fairly limited as it is, so I'm not going to dilute decks with random numbers and other garbage. Not until I can read some basic things, at least.
Replies: >>2662
More kana filled out, an lots of kana combinations to form some words. Little bit more progress, and a little closer! Looking forward to reading Yotsuba soon.
I didn't like anki either. Nothing stuck. I'm hoping all the resources in OP will prove to have a lot more stay in learning nip. Time will tell.
Replies: >>2663 >>2675
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I learned kana for games then gave up.

Replies: >>2664
>I learned kana for games then gave up.
Has the kana by itself been sufficient for you to play most nip games? if so, that's likely as far as I would also want to take it, but then again some games may contain kanji I s'pose.
Replies: >>2665
yeah you just need it for menus and stuff
Replies: >>2666
Ah. I was going in for raw games. I may end up needing kanji yet.
Replies: >>2669
It depends on the game and who the intended audience is. For instance, some games for kids feature furigana above the kanji so you can read it without memorizing those godforsaken symbols.
Replies: >>2675
yet more progress: Did you know that a tengu is a long-nosed goblin? I thought it was a bird demon. I feel very misled by the board mascot and her ruse. Furthermore, a "senpai" is a senior. I assumed it was some kind of informal colleague. 
The hiragana chart is now filled out, more words are done with piece together hiragana characters, and the voiced sounds of hiragana are also filled out in a tabular fashion. 
>furigana above the kanji 
well let's hope mine do, because holy wew writing down some 4k kanji will be a real exercise.
Replies: >>2676 >>2687
The long-nosed tengus are just one kind of them.  There are wolf and crow tengus too.
Replies: >>2678
Oh good. That lessens the sting of the ruse, for I did always hope she was a crow and not some bizarro giant version of a goblin with a "nose for news"
'nother day done. This whole hour was just writing out more words in hiragana. I sure hope I can make sense of it once these words are in sentences to provide context, since, in romanji, "Hakone, Meiji, Nagoya, Matsushima, Nikkoo, Sapporo, Oosaka, Kyooto, and Honshu" all mean place (it now occurs to me these are probably cities or something as I type this). For my purposes, I'm not so sure there's a reason to memorize the romanji definition for each character of hiragana, since such characters can translate to wildly different things anyways once mushed together in a separate order (like horse and hoarse, just one a thrown in and the two definitions couldn't be farther apart) but I suppose if I intended to actually speak the language the romanji would be important. 
One thing that dutifully writing out these words is helping with in spades is recognizing hiragana characters son sight, or close enough thereto that I check the hiragana chart first, so that's helpful.
Replies: >>2761
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Found this in one of the torrent pastebins. rutracker magnet didn't work, but I it turns out it's on internet archive. Looks pretty decent, better than other resources I've seen. I've started filtering through to construct vocab lists that remove unnecessary things like interjections and particles. 

I really don't need a dictionary to tell me what "ee!" means and particles are obviously something you pick up from context when you hear real sentences. I've already studied a decent number of them to know that there are a few really crucial ones, and a fuck ton of "flavour" particles like yo vs zo, or how girls add wa to the end of a sentence just to sound girly. Even if these do have a nuanced meaning it's not going to sink in until I hear a lot of examples.

I'm starting out with mostly nouns for concrete things. hito, (person) ie (house), hi (sun), me (eye). This will be the bulk of my vocab study, because they form memories easily. Next, I will use my verb list to study sentence construction, using the nouns that I know. I'll have to find some more reading material, but I can probably just use example sentences from dictionaries and search results. As they come up in reading/constructing, I also plan to make a list of more abstract nouns and pronouns like imi (meaning), yoi (good), kanji (feeling, yes it's an actual word apparently). These words are really important, but also harder to remember, and that's why the frequency dictionary will be handy, so I can focus on the most important first.

Once I have a small chunk of vocab done, I'll get some flash cards going for retention. Then I'll rewatch some anime, try to translate music, and maybe check out some visual novels. I'm not going to start worrying about reading and writing kanji until I can comprehend most simple verbal sentences. At that point I'll likely know what they mean once I hear them spoken, and then I'll actually have some context and reason to remember how they're written.
Replies: >>2782
almost missed today's, wew. Yoon tables are filled out now too, which to my eyes appear to be hiragana symbols for which a consonant, "y", and then a vowel, a, o, or u, get smooshed together. I suppose the y substitutes for the i and the e. More hiragana words are constructed, and the fun part is that, with that, the first chapter of the book is concluded and tomorrow I can begin on the "Katakana" chapter. That'll be nice, perhaps soon I can translate the little picture in OP.
Replies: >>2771
Most of the katakana table is filled out, as is the yoon table for katakana. Finally found the elusive box symbol among the katakana. Katakana is a funny little method of writing, because the romanized translations are made to sound almost exactly like their english equivalents, or as close as the Japanese tongue can muster. (sarari from katakana ---> salary, as an example.) I'm still learning about it all, but if katakana is able to cover all their loan-word needs than that's hugely impressive. Probably not though, they probably need to mix kanji in at least for at least a few instances. The real shame is that I liked writing katakana out more than the hiragana, but sadly most everything will probably be combinations of hiragana/kanji, if I'm understanding nip correctly. Also, bunch more words in katakana written out.
Replies: >>2803
concrete.txt (u)
Finished combing through the first thousand words and pared it down to 100 nouns by grouping words with the same meaning, and removing things that are more abstract. The remaining words (verbs, particles, etc) will go in other lists, which I've decided I'll worry about after finishing this one. The whole dictionary is 5k words, so I'm halfway there. If I'm lucky that'll bring 5k words down to 500 nouns, which should be pretty feasible for casual study.

The good thing about doing things this way is that I'm learning the meaning of words that I already know. For example, I've heard the words tabemono (food) and machi (city) frequently, but didn't know their meaning. As a result they have been in my head, and the meaning sticks fairly naturally in a subconscious way.
Replies: >>2783
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>I'm halfway there

Fuck, meant to say one fifth.
Replies: >>2784
if I cum on youmoo's glasses will she take it as a yes
Replies: >>2785
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all you had to do was give her those sweet (You)s
Another day done, and all the hiragana/katakana is filled out! Thus far, I have successfully translated the very first panel of yotsuba, which is where she says "ooooooooo" looking out the window of the moving truck. Progressing like a snail, probably would have been a better use of my time to just copy down hiragana/katakana tables and not worry about the rest of it. But, I do only do this for an hour each day so I didn't start on Yotsuba until the tail end of the hour anyways. Either way, I have now translated more nip now than I have at any earlier point in my life, which is very fun.
Replies: >>2804
Technically speaking, I think it's just two o's, since it's the hiraganic o followed by the katakanic "-". Who knows, either way the translator decided to call it "whoah" in english.
Replies: >>2805
Another report almost immediately, because I was impatient to get started on actually translating actual Japanese. I immediately hit a roadblock on just the second panel of Yotsuba, where I encountered a character I could find on neither the hiragana, katakana, yoon, or voiced tables I possessed. Consequently, I have now switched to imabi.net, the one in the picture I posted back at the beginning here >>2636, and went through beginner 1 of "vowels." Will be going through that again tomorrow, because apparently they're rather important and I kinda glazed over about halfway through. Probably the cost of trying to work the section after midnight. On the other hand, since I've already done monday's hour tomorrow will be a lot less planned.
Replies: >>2857
Despite my best efforts, my studies always tend to stray into learning how to speak nip. I suppose it may ultimately be necessary for reading after all. Today was lesson 1 of beginner 1 of imabi.net/grammar, on vowels. Accents are interesting, since when thrown over, at least, the romanized characters (outside of the diacritics, does it actually apply to nip characters? Will learn someday, I suppose.) the word changes into something else entirely. Very important, I'm sure. Further, every vowel is pronounced, rather than bound together. That's rather nice actually, unlike english where you see a ch on occasion and then have to wonder if it's pronounced "k" or actually "ch" like and then still try to convince people you're a native speaker (chitin comes to mind as an infamous example.) Very interesting things to learn though, tomorrow shall be consonants.
Replies: >>2872
Finished another hour of study, today over consonants. Sadly, will have to go over it again tomorrow, a headache combined with a lack of interest managed to significantly impede any absorption of the materials, outside of learning that, it seems like, 75% of all consonants are worded differently than english (like for f, the bottom lip doesn't touch the top teeth.) I'll definitely end up going over consonants again tomorrow, and hopefully the headache should have dissipated by then for some better learning.
concrete.txt (u)
Alright, 100 more words. I might be done with the list faster than expected because there appear to be fewer and fewer simple nouns the further down the list I go. We're now at 2.2k/5k, so approaching the halfway point for real this time. Once it's done I think I'm going to copy the list and create categorical lists like animals and body parts. That should remove some more bloat and allow me to create a reasonable core vocab list
Replies: >>2878
eugh, well that comes out ugly in my browser, but it looks fine in notepad++. I forgot to mention, I have separated the japanese/english into two columns so it can more easily be studied as flash cards. Quite easy to scroll to a random part and start checking if I know the word.
No progress at all, it seems like. What is this character ぞ? It comes as the second to last character in もうすぐだぞー . I feel silly asking, but it doesn't look like it should be kanji, but I cannot find it in either the hiragana or katakana tables. Basically have it reading MoUSuGuDa??(then an extension of ??) . I went ahead and glossed over learning about the "sounds" of the language since I just want to read it. Hopefully knowing how to say the sounds isn't crucial to learning how to read Japanese. More reading done though, have started digging into monolithic kanjia.
Replies: >>2887 >>2901 >>3441
>What is this character ぞ?
Looks like zo.  そ plus an accent. A useful note is that you really on need to memorize about 46 (hira/kata) kana, and then learn the accent system for the remaining 25. Broadly speaking, accents just turn unvoiced consonants into voiced ones. There are some slight deviations but they are few in number.

> K -> G,   S -> Z,   SH -> J,   T -> B,   H -> P.

This might help with your kana memorization: https://djtguide.neocities.org/kana/index.html

The website was posted in the last thread on plw/jp/. Pretty good resource for other things too. https://djtguide.neocities.org/guide.html
Replies: >>2888 >>2893
>T -> B
okay that's wrong. It's H sounds become B sounds with ' accents, and P sounds with the "o", accent.
Thanks much, and I think you're right. Couldn't find that for the life of me. Means that that now reads MoUSuGaDaZo(o) if I've understood my readings correctly, while the translator on the page says that it reads as "we're almost there..." (first page of first yotsuba comic, as found here https://bilingualmanga.com/manga/yotsubato/chapter-1/5-1) That threw me for the longest time because the comic just writes it as an apostrophe, but I suppose strokes are just a general idea, and only have to conform to a general order/direction. I'll have to copy and paste the characters into computer text some more, curiously the character looked different from the page when typed into here.
Replies: >>2901

>Hopefully knowing how to say the sounds isn't crucial to learning how to read Japanese.
I think it would save more time than ignoring it. The good news is that reading some romanji and watching some anime should get you decent way there.

To elaborate, you may already be aware, but japanese doesn't have the same spacing conventions as english. Often, you'll have entire sentences without spaces, like this one. The sentence reads as "(Mousugu) (da) (zo.)" To translate as literally as possible: "(soon) (it is) (FYI)." Mousugu translates pretty literally, and "da" is just a informal form of "desu," or "to be." Zo is a particle, in this case it's a modifier implying that the listener should pay attention to what is said. Maybe similar to adding a "Hey," to the beginning of an english sentence.

An aside: particles are used all over the place for different reasons. They're almost always single consonants stuck after the end of other words, so they're pretty recognizable. But holy fuck there are a lot. Context heavily determines the way they are used, so the same kana can be used for many different particles. For example, "wa" when used after the first noun of a sentence marks the subject (the thing doing the verb action. "boku wa...") HOWEVER, wa used at the very end of a sentence mean ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, and is used exclusively by women for the sake of sounding feminine ("sugoi desu wa.") All of these factors combine to mean I don't know which particles are most worth studying. It's probably best to figure them out as they come up.

The point being, you'll have a much easier time picking out words in a sentence if you can hear "da zo!" in your head and know that's not part of "Mousugu." Learning how to "hear" structure might sound a little daunting, but a good thing to remember is most japanese sentences follow a pretty simple structure:
>[subject] [objects and other shit] verb [particles]

Anything in square brackets is entirely optional.

So literally "Iku / ikimasu!" is a full sentence meaning "lets/I will/you go!" These meanings are inferred by context, unless you add other shit to be more specific. So you could say: "watashi wa ikimasu yo!" Effectively means the same thing, but clears up any ambiguity.

The only caveat with this sentence structure is that the verb can be dropped if it is desu/da. The sentences: "Inu." and "atsui." just mean "it's (a) dog," and "it's hot." The same as if you said "Inu desu." Desu is just such a meme word that there's no need to say it when it's this obvious.

As far as I know almost all sentences will follow this structure, but I'm just some autist who can't learn japanese so take that with a grain of salt. There might be more unconventional sentence structures that I'm not aware of, but this is the big one. The big takeaway is that the end of the sentence is nearly always going to be a verb and a particle or two. It's a good anchor point to look for when you're confused. Particles are easily recognizable, and verbs often end with "u", "masu" and so on. This is very handy to know when looking things up, because you'll want to remove the particles.
Replies: >>2905 >>2934
>I think it would save more time than ignoring it. The good news is that reading some romanji and watching some anime should get you decent way there.
fugggggggg. I'll have to find some good animus to watch then. Last one I watched was Rozen Maiden, and while very good I haven't watched one since on account of not really thinking anything could top Rozen Maiden. The information about sentence structure is very helpful, and hopefully I'll eventually be able to sense the structure too, and particle context. Really though, that structure knowledge should help a crap ton in learning this language.
Found some bilingual anime to watch. Helping a lot more than trying to read it did, I now know that the japanese "f" is a kind of blowing sound, very similar to what you'd do to blow air onto hot liquids. Website showcases hiragana, katakana, japanese, romanji, and finally english subtitles all in one so that's pretty helpful. Feels like I've learned more (not that I necessarily remember them) japanese phrases in this hour than I did in all my previous hours combined, so I think the bilingual anime is a good way to continue.
Replies: >>2935
https://animelon.com/ is the website I was talking about and forgot to paste in for some reason.
Replies: >>2962
Same procedure, another day. More phrases learned, although I may need to kill the romaji subtitles if I ever want to learn the gana/kata/kanji characters properly. More phrases learned though, and like anon stated earlier ITT they do tend to put the "focus" of the sentence at the beginning, and then the following words seem to supplement that focus (that's what I've ascertained so far, could be totally wrong.) More tomorrow, I don't know how effective this method of learning is compared to others but it sure is enjoyable.
Replies: >>3005
such a busy sunday I nearly forgot to do my studies for the day. Since it's watching anime, albeit with the various subtitles, I'm not strictly sure if I can qualify it as study anymore but I am learning words and phrases, primarily. Anyways, it's quite late, so more tomorrow.
busy monday too. I guess "desu" is one of those particles alluded too earlier ITT that get thrown everywhere with a different meaning based on context. Alternatively, I may just not know japanese yet. Probably the latter. Learning more phrases as time goes on, though, the bilingual anime is pretty helpful for that, and especially for pronunciation, such as the last letters of words sometimes simply not being pronounced at all, like the "k" in knight.
Replies: >>3028
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Nope, it's a verb, desu. And yes, usually pronounced like "dess" when nothing follows it. Pic related, posted some of these on plw before, I forgot where to find them. When I get finished my vocab lists I'll probably upload a zip of my beginner materials.
Replies: >>3029 >>3031
>word order affects the emphasis but not not the fundamental meaning.
eh, that's poorly stated, should say something like "clause order." Basically you create phrases and cap them off with particles, and then those phrases can basically go in any order. Bunsetsu means phrase, that's what the first pic represents. It is important to note that some of these phrases will contain particles. For example "kino no tabi" is a full noun-phrase that means "kino's journey." (kino no tabi WA) (anime WO) desu. I believe that's roughly a valid sentence. Titles might need a special particle but I'm too lazy to look that up.

This is an exhaustive list of all the sentence constructions I understand so far:
>sentence    =  (<phrase> WA) (<phrase> <particle>)* <verb> (<particle>)
>phrase        = <adjective> / <noun> / <phrase> <particle> <phrase> / <???>
>particle       = wa / wo / ni / ga / de / ...
>noun           = ... (VOCAB)
>adjective      = ... (VOCAB)
>verb             = ... (VOCAB)

Probably looks like gibberish if you haven't studied comp sci or formal languages, but I find it helpful. I know for a fact that there are more ways to construct phrases, so I've left a  <???> there. Once I can list the majority of those, I feel like I'll have a pretty complete sense of the grammar. Then I'll need to focus on reading to fill in any blanks.
Another hour concluded. I should probably stick to slice of life shows for clear enunciation of japanese, I think action shows aren't as good for it. I also still find myself looking at the romaji rather than the actual characters in the subtitles. At least it's a habit now.
So if I understand japanese sentence structure right, a sentence like "Jerry kicked the ball" in english should become, in japanese, "Jerry, the ball he kicked"?
Replies: >>3034
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>Jerry, the ball he kicked
That's the gist of it yes. Technically your "he" is redundant. Saying"Jerry wa, kare ga...", in english is "Jerry, he kicked the ball." That has a certain feel to it in English, but I don't know if the feeling translates. More than likely "kare ga" is going to be dropped as it's redundant information.

Speaking of dropping words, "the" and "a" are english particles which flat-out don't exist in japanese as particle words. Yet another instance of omitting contextually redundant information. When you say "neko da" and there's one cat, everyone knows you're talking about the one cat. If you say "neko da" and there's three cats, everyone knows you're talking about the three cats. There really is no need to pluralize or specify when the context does not create any confusion. It's both a blessing and curse, because it's quite simple way of doing things, but also pretty foreign to english. 

Of course, when you actually need to express things that aren't contextually obvious you have to start using more words, and that's where the curse comes in. You can say "san-nin hito" if it's really important to specify that you're talking about three people. San means three, and nin is a particle which modifies hito to indicate that the count of people is three. There are different counter particles for different categories of things. For people, it's "nin" (as in ningen.) Animals use "hiko." There are a shit ton of these and I doubt it's worth anyone's time to start memorizing them at our level. Just remember the form <number> <particle> <noun> is mostly likely a counter noun phrase. This is why you should at least learn numbers up to ten. Otherwise you'll be fucked at recognizing these. (Fortunately once you know those everything else is pretty easy. Ten is juu, hachi is eight, juu-hachi is eighty. it's literally just like saying "ten eights.") 

So plurals are weird, what about referring to a specific thing? There's no "The," but in english we can use "this" or "that" which fortunately do have equivalents in japanese: kore, sore, are, kono, sono, ano. Yeah there's a fuck ton of them. They all basically mean "this" or "that" though. Even in English "this" and "that" basically mean the same thing, just imply different proximity to the speakers. I won't bother to explain each one because I forget, I'm lazy, and like everything else, context makes it pretty obvious what is meant. They sound similar so they're easy to recognize.

Similarly, you'd most likely use a pronoun like "many", "some", "all", if you wanted to say "a ball." Again these are pronouns not particles, because they can be used standalone as if they were nouns nouns. This is speculation on my part, I actually don't know any of these and haven't seen them used. Might be totally wrong.

So to finish this off with the reason why I started typing this, your sentence should look more like:

>Jerry ball kicked

Yeah it makes no sense this way, but that's about it. 
Fuck I got carried away.
Replies: >>3035 >>3037 >>3046
>"many", "some", "all"
>"a ball"

Maybe I should elaborate. When we say "Lets get a ball", that's equivalent to "lets get some ball."  When we say "a ball is round," that's like saying "all/most/many balls are round." And because these are pronouns, not particles, you can also say "some/all/many (of these) are balls." They are basically placeholder nouns that can standalone, or be used in constructions to clarify another noun.
"neko da"
Fuck it, this might be confusing too. If I were to write this in "proper" form, it'd be "neko wa desu." BUT you can drop wa, because what's the fucking subject if it's not the cat? 

Next, the verb conjugation. Da is literally just desu with a different ending. Verbs typically end with -u or -ru, but they can be made polite/formal with -masu, -imasu. For example, iku and ikimasu. There are other endings which you will eventually want to know which indicate past tense, or negative tense. Good news is that the beginning of the verb will stays the same and will be pretty recognizable in most cases. Desu just happens to be one of the unusual ones in this regard. It's polite form is already desu, not desimasu, which just isn't a word. Da is the informal version.

Conjugations are one of those things where I think getting a feel is more important than memorizing. Especially the polite/informal distinction, which once you can recognize, you can pretty safely ignore. Past and negative tense are pretty important for meaning, so I would study those more carefully though.
Replies: >>3046
early jump on the "studies" today (it's watching anime with hiragana, katakana, japanese and romaji subtitles.) So far as I can tell, "ohayou" (as used with family) and "ohayougozaimasu"(as heard used in a classroom) both mean the same thing, but perhaps one is for informal settings and the other for formal. (>>3037 confirms this, I suppose that means just watching the animes is working a little.)
 Still not really having words stick in memory though, closest one off the top of my head is "croquettes" being "krokketes" but I'm 100% sure that's not the proper romaji spelling for it. 
That's very interesting, just going for general reference rather than detailed quantities of things. It sounds right too, I haven't seen any shows yet that try to quantify a specific thing. 
>past and negative tense
Shall keep an eye out for those, then.
Replies: >>3068
'nother day done. I uhhhhh don't think I learned a single dang thing today, really probably shouldn't try to watch action animes to learn because then I'm not busy looking at the subtitles. Always another go tomorrow though!
Replies: >>3077
slice of life shows are definitely more helpful for learning Japanese than action shows. Seems like the voices are enunciated much more clearly. I may end up needing to find other sources for learning specific words and spelling though, although anime is hands down the best way, I think, to learn Japanese pronunciation for people who don't live in japan, so in that respect they're fantastic. Alternatively, this may still be the way to go because I am learning at least the gist of phrases (not that I can ever remember them to write them down here, but after some repetition they seem to stick, like 'ohayo' for "good morning", 'wakkate'(i don't know if one k or two, or if that's even the term) for "got it", and that's all I can remember right now.
Replies: >>3078
Yep, little things like that are great. A lot of words that I learn now have strong memories associated with them because of anime I've watched. I do recommend you continue your other studies in tandem with this though. Learning bits of grammar and pronunciation will help with listening, and vice versa. Speaking of which, I have some anki cards for kana with audio. Hearing each syllable pronounced is nice. I appreciate how much more consistent some things are in comparison to english.

apparently I can't attach this, here:
about forgot to make my post for the day. Have not yet started studying any grammar, should probably start soon. No phrases particularly stick in mind today, which is why I should probably record it earlier and not nearly forget like I did today. 
>files expire after 24 hours or when breaking the ToS
eh, rip. Didn't get to it fast enough.
Replies: >>3107 >>3108
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aaaaalright. That's 5k words smushed down to 300 simple nouns. I've removed all english loan words and have tried to lis tonly the most common synonym, since there are many duplicate words. (Same meaning, different spelling.) I also began moving common categories of words into another file. This includes things like colors, numbers, animals, etc. There's a number of other things that I think I will make categories for, in order to trim the list down a little more.
Replies: >>3109
Oh I forgot to reply. I'll try to reupload that at some point. Hopefully somewhere with a longer expiration period.
>the two text files
arigatou gozaimas (probably butchered the spelling) . More animoo watched, love me some slice of life about single dads and their daughters, very wholesome stuff. Starting to pick up a few more phrases here and there. Those text files do look super neat, will have a peek through them soon. Oyasumi!
Replies: >>3127
'nother hour done. It seems like "wai ne, tai ne, and soi ne" can all be used for "you know?" While "shitteru" seems to be "I know." "Douzo" seems to mean "here you go." Can't say the current one I'm watching is particularly good compared to others I've seen, but it's fantastic for phrases so far.
>>2635 (OP) 
I wanna learn Korean.
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pls study nipnongo with us instead
I wanna learn Italian.
Replies: >>3159 >>3167
what the hell
Replies: >>3162
I don't have any money, racemixing is bad, and japan is a falling world power.  Why should I learn japanese?
Replies: >>3165 >>3166
jerk off to anime
To me, it's just a stepping stone. Of all foreign languages it's probably the one I'm most familiar with, aside from french, which I detest.  If I am reasonably successful (able to understand unsubbed anime) then I may move on to a more useful language, hopefully using the skills I've learned while picking up japanese.
Replies: >>4378
There should be resources in OP for both. I can't help with them though on account of I'm only barely learning nip, but yeah, there are many different resources for many different languages in the OP.
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Time to read with snaggle tooth ara-chan. Can barely understand a fucking thing, had to crack open the dictionary. Picked up a few things though, so that's good. Needless to say, I won't be getting to deep into nanahira until I feel comfortable watching some of these random youtube videos.

speaking of dictionaries, here's some sites I'm using right now. Will probably switch to software when I something less kludgy. 
Replies: >>3297
I really need to stop waiting until right before I sleep to do my hour of nip holy wew
phrases are nice and all, but like anon stated earlier ITT it's becoming more and more clear I'm going to need to learn grammar to fully figure out how they structure their sentences. I was hoping I could find a consistent pattern, but since the order doesn't resemble english's that's an impossibility at my current skill level. Learning phrases is still fun though.
'nother hour done, albeit still haven't gotten around to learning grammar, so basically just picked up on some more phrases, like "ii ja yo" for "it's so hot." Enjoyable since it's watching anime though so I shan't complain.
Replies: >>3244
puki means fan, I think. chan means "mister" I believe. When you start to recognize enough words you start to figure out where they're placed in the sentence. Also helps that anon pointed out earlier ITT that japanese doesn't use articles. I don't know how effective it is, but this is a very fun way to study japanese.
Replies: >>3261
More phrases kinda learned, I think one was "honnte" which means something I can't remember. I believe it's some kind of question "can I?" confirmation. I'm not sure, I simply don't remember. wakate is one that comes up a lot, can't remember what it means either though. Fun stuff though.
Replies: >>3262
"hontouni" means "truly" or "really." If you check out my grammar list, "hontou" is "truth." It's a really common word, so it's good to know. A lot of adjectives in japanese are just nouns with an "i" ending of some sort. Pretty similar to english. String-y, cheese-y, ease-y.  Interestingly, the long "ee" sound is used to imply a sort of "likeness" across both languages.
Replies: >>3263
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Despite having now heard "wakate" or "wakkate" (however you spell it) a million times now I still have not managed to grasp its meaning. Gakkou, however, must mean school. Seems like there's a hundred little de's, na',s wa's, and desu's sprinkled around everywhere, which I'm sure are the particles anon mentioned earlier ITT that they really do sprinkle onto everything. With time I may figure out what they represent, since I've been told that japanese doesn't use articles. Still fun studying though.
Replies: >>3382
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is this thread about a dedicated effort in making it as confusing as possible to learn japanese by spreading disinfo pretending to act in good faith?
Replies: >>3283 >>3284
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if somebody said something incorrect, why not reply and correct them
thought you already knew japanese treb
Replies: >>3285
I do not know who or what this refers to. Anyway, all two of the anons learning japanese in this thread have pretty clearly stated they don't know what the fuck they're talking about. Any guidance is appreciated.
Replies: >>3286
I think I finally figured out wakkate. I suspect it means "okay" or its synonyms. About all I was able to pick up from today's hour though, sundays are always bloody distracting.
Replies: >>3297 >>3382
That's near the mark. Wakate is a particular form of the verb wakaru, which means to understand. Wakate is frequently said as a response to a request. So basically the same way we use "okay," "roger," or "understood." You'll definitely hear it's other forms come up as well, 2nd pic related: >>3168
Replies: >>3382
subs on today's episodes were the suck and so I was more busy trying to keep up with subtitles that lagged a good seven seconds behind the actual conversation. Best I could really seem to pick up was that, while "chi" means blood, I'm pretty sure, "a chi" seems to mean "hot." That, or chi simply has multiple meanings that vary based on context. "hidoi" seems to mean "harsh" or its synonyms, while I've heard "yoshi" to both be exclamations of delight and "good dog." Last meaning is probably contextual, just means "good anything."  Last few episodes have been like this too, otherwise would make for a pleasant little series to watch and learn from. As it stands, shan't be revisiting it anytime soon.
Replies: >>3361 >>3382
alas, still stuck with lousy subs. I think I struck on a new discovery though, it's incredibly possible that phrases while change depending on whether or not the speaker is a man or woman, At the least, in the animoo when two speakers spoke the same phrase back to back, one word was changed although both phrases were translated to be the same in the subtitles. "doushite" seems to be the standard parlance for question asking. Looking forward to when subtitles match the proper time again. Will be like paradise.
Replies: >>3371
'nother hour done. watashi means something elusive, and the next show has properly placed subs. "misu" (or misa?) seems to mean water. I think it was misu. still a thousand desu ne's, once I start actually studying grammar that'll probably help a lot with reading.
Replies: >>3382
more phrases learned, "chotto mattai" seems to be a standard one, probably "wait a small amount of time." in its most literal translation. Subs just call it "wait a sec, " so it's also possible that chotto actually means second. This method is working well for at least understanding phrases and speech, although particle meaning in general still eludes me, the "ii wa no da desu" etc. etc.
Replies: >>3381 >>3382
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hold on are you trying to learn without reading off any kind of manual and just watching anime with subs? you'll never learn anything but a handful of words and ready-to-use sentences not much different than people than say "homelette du fromage, baguette au revoir" and pretend to speak french.

fucking get a textbook and read nigger read, what the fuck are you even doing, you'd know some basic grammar, vocabulary and how to fucking write kana and kanji by now if you'd READ.
Replies: >>3398
 want a good Japanese dictionary? use this ---> https://www.edrdg.org/cgi-bin/wwwjdic/wwwjdic 
I am not very good at Japanese myself, but I try to help you (i am actually trying to study Japanese from a textbook)
pro-tip: To learn japanese (or any other foreign language), don't just try to translate sentences word-by-word, instead try to learn to think in japanese (try to learn how japanese works)

desu (polite form of da) is a verb or verb-like word (called copula in linguistics)
desu means is when making a statement. (if you are talking about the location of where something you must use aru/iru (depends on the word), for example "the book is on the table" = "Hon wa teeburu ni aru")
For example: Atsui, desu ne = "it's warm, isn't it?" ne particle is frequently used to make the sentence sound more polite or make the statement sound more soft (not in romantic sense) Wa particle is used to mark the topic of the sentence: Boku wa Doitsujin desu = I am German (person=jin). Actually you can often drop the "Boku wa" part. for example if someone asks where you are from you could just reply "Doitsujin desu" If you want to say that you aren't a student, you can say "(Watashi wa) gakusei ja arimasen" (or (Watashi wa) gakusei dewa arimasen) You can use ka particle when you want a confirmation (a yes/no question): Chiruno-san wa kyooshi desu ka. = "is Cirno-san a teacher?" (pro-tip: avoid translating ~san; it doesn't translate well into English)

>Wakate is a particular form of the verb wakaru, which means to understand
you probably want to use the polite ~masu forms, for example: wakarimashita.
also, i just want to point out that wakarimasen means i don't understand

>chi (or shi)
in japanese, there a ton of words that have similar pronunciation but different meaning and spelling (kanji) 
yup, it means means "cruel" or "heartless"

watashi means "I" (there are other words also like watashi: boku (either a bit informal or perhaps boyish)  and atashi (girly, cute)) You should avoid referring to others using a personal pronoun in Japanese, unless you know that person well.
You are correct that mizu (sic) means water

chotto means "little" and matte means "wait"
say "chotto matte, kudasai" to make it polite request. (kudasai means "please")

Politeness is pretty complex topic in Japanese. basically, words have declensions that make the word more polite but there are also different vocabularies for making the speech extra polite.
Replies: >>3385 >>3398 >>3433
also, I found this website helpful
You can also use it to practice kana (select the desired hiragana/katakana from options)

this is why (((rōmaji))) is harmful. you meant to write kyoushi
Replies: >>3386

in addition to practicing kana at https://itazuraneko.neocities.org/learn/kana.html 
You should also write kana on (squared) paper or print out hiragana/katakana practice sheets. You can view the correct stroke order (very important) at Wikipedia, for example:
> Individual kana https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_%28kana%29
> Hiragana: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiragana#Stroke_order_and_direction 
> Katakana: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katakana#Stroke_order
> here is example of hiragana practice sheet: https://files.tofugu.com/articles/japanese/2016-04-05-hiragana-chart/matome-renshuu.pdf
> and here an example katakana practice sheet: https://storage.googleapis.com/ll-app/docs/jp/Katakana%20practice%20sheet.pdf
(note that ヱ and ヰ or ゑ and ゐ and are unused characters in modern Japanese)
Replies: >>3391
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>not reading the whole thread before posting
Replies: >>3416
>You should also write kana
for someone who's just beginning to learn the language surely it would be more worthwhile to just learn to type kana? Unless you're living in Japan it seems like it won't pay off for a long time.
Replies: >>3398 >>3416
'nother hour of watching the animu done. "okii" is big. 
Yeah, I'll have to start soon. Watching the anime is great for picking up words here and there, as well as learning how they pronounce certain letters, but it's probably not the way to go to learn how to write it (which was my original goal, heh.) 
Thanks a bunch, all very helpful, particularly that "desu" is used for statements. The "wa" coming BEFORE the topic, rather than after, is also really helpful knowledge.
I have found that copying and pasting curious looking kana helped to standardize it for translating from the kana tables.
Replies: >>3416 >>3455
Found this thread via overboard

>surely it would be more worthwhile to just learn to type kana?
No, that's a trap for plebs. Writing the kana helps you actually memorize/recognize them (trust me) and knowing how to write katakana helps you learn kanji later. And learning kana feels even more boring if you already know how to speak but can't write (except perhaps in rōmaji) Also, Rōmaji teachers you bad habits (like not remembering that ō = ou)

>Watching the anime is great for picking up words here and there, as well as learning how they pronounce certain letters,
But remember to be careful: In anime, the speech is more direct (considered rude IRL) and the characters often try to sound more cute or manly.
Replies: >>3417
>But remember to be careful: In anime, the speech is more direct (considered rude IRL) and the characters often try to sound more cute or manly.
That's interesting. I didn't know that. Are (most) slice of life episodes accurate? I kind of assume the action genres would be like how you describe. Either way, really a good thing to keep an eye on.
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A little clarification, just in case: desu has the same meaning as "is" or "be" (more or less)

>Are (most) slice of life episodes accurate? 
The simple and short answer is "No".

You can pick up news words here and there but there aren't any guarantees whether the style of the sentence is okay or not. This "problem" (really, it's a feature) affects all anime. The politeness can be pretty complex topic in Japanese language (especially for a beginner), and it makes the most sense to learn the "standard" politeness level (i.e. how you would talk to people who just met or how you would speak if you visited Japan as a tourist.)  I suggest that you pick up a textbook. Supplementing your Japanese learning with anime is okay (actually even a good idea to keep you motivated), but you can't learn to speak Japanese from anime alone. Whether anime is good for learning pronunciation can be a bit debatable, too, I guess. Some anime characters have a accent/speak dialect, so it can be a bit counter-productive. I guess you could use desu as an example: some anime characters pronounce it as "desu" while all textbooks tell you to pronounce it as "des" (Like Sanae Dekomori from Chuunibyou demo Koi ga Shitai! would pronounce it) Obviously, on some instances it is even worse: like Cerberus, aka Kero-chan, (he has heavy accent) from Cardcaptor Sakura, for example. Textbooks teach you what is usually referred to as "Tokyo dialect" or, more correctly, Standard Japanese.

Are you native English speaker? If so, Genki series is considered the "gold standard" Japanese textbook for English speakers (I heard Japanese For Busy People is fine, too, but it's pretty fast paced). If you aren't a native English speaker, I suggest you pick up a book that's written in your native language since what you find difficult in Japanese language aren't necessarily the same things as what a native English speaker has trouble with, and a lot of explanations can be hard to follow (especially instructions on how to pronounce Japanese words)
You might also want to look into Tae Kim's Guide to Japanese Grammar: http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/grammar  and its translations: http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/translations/
Replies: >>3438 >>3441
Learned probably the first big word just from the watching of the animu, which is "tomodachi" for "friend." It's  possibly my first noun that's not part of a greeting phrase or an adjective of some kind, which is neat. I'm sure anons ITT are very correct that this is an incredibly inefficient way to learn japanese, but it is fun to watch animus that I would never have watched otherwise. they're better than I thought they would be. Had I watched these as a kid, I would probably have become a weeb back then, because they are bredy gud. "maji ka" translated in the subs as "for real" although it's probably a more general "really?" kind of statement.
Replies: >>3455
Yup, native english speaker. Have definitely noticed the accents you speak of, some anime really do pronounce things differently than others, and like you allude too I've heard "desu" pronounced as such generally when it's in the middle of the sentence, but usually the last vowel fades away when "desu" (and other particles) are at the end of the sentence. I'll have to track down that Genki series you speak of, I think that will be very helpful too.
And thanks to everyone ITT for the advice, too. Hopefully I'll be able to pay it forward eventually by properly learning the language.
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>This "problem" (really, it's a feature) affects all anime. 

This is actually the reason why I suggested watching some anime to (>>2886)
Though it seems he has decided to focus primarily on watching anime, at least for the time being, which isn't exactly what I suggested. I've certainly spent time watching anime without studying and I wouldn't call it worthless, but I only meant that it would be supplemental.

There are many weird intricacies and differences between japanese and english. Frequently it's hard to know what is relevant. You're right to warn about potentially "improper" ways of speaking, but not knowing about them is a problem too. Sure, if you walk down the street saying "desu wa!" everyone is going to think you're a flaming faggot. On the other hand, if somebody says it jokingly and you are completely baffled and think it's some special particle/verb conjugation, you're going to waste a lot of time trying to figure out something totally redundant. That's the value of listening to the language spoken in a wide variety of contexts. You get a sense for the cadence and structure of things.
Replies: >>3442
>Though it seems he has decided to focus primarily on watching anime, at least for the time being, which isn't exactly what I suggested.
the anime is honestly way better than it has any right to be, which has both taught me how japanese is pronounced, with some differences, and served to entirely distract me from my original goal :^)
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> I'll have to start soon.
>Watching the anime is great for picking up words here and there,
there isn't a single common word that you'll get from anime and won't get from any basic book, listening to anime is only good to get a better understanding of colloquial and less formal speech, but that's also true for any original language media.
>as well as learning how they pronounce certain letters
again if you used a book, and listened to the audio they come with, you'd get that too.
> but it's probably not the way to go to learn how to write it
it most certainly is not

For today's hour of study, I began on the Genki textbooks (luckily, they were found in the links in the OP so I didn't have to dig very much for them.) I had already constructed the kana tables from previous studies, so that saved some time, and thus I was able to reach the "common greetings" section of lesson 1. One curiosity, while most of the symbols for "konnichiwa" as written from hiragana match what they're supposed to, the "wa" sound at the end is actually written using the hiraganic "ha" symbol, rather than the hiraganic "wa" symbol as expected. The audio clip, however, still sounds like a "wa" at the end to my ears. Perhaps a typo, or is "konnichiwa" actually transcribed in hiragana as "konnichiha" ?
Replies: >>3462 >>3463 >>3468
I checked a dictionary, which spells it こんにちわ. Strangely enough, the subject particle "wa" is written はso it's either an alternative spelling or a typo. I don't really know why the particle wa isn't written as わ, but it's probably just a quirk of modern pronounciation.
Replies: >>3463
> is "konnichiwa" actually transcribed in hiragana as "konnichiha" ?
Yes, because the "wa" in "konnichiwa" is actually the topic particle. The topic particle "ha" is written as は but pronounced like "wa" (it's special case)
> http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/grammar/particlesintro
Replies: >>3464 >>3470
To clarify: Only the topic particle  は  is pronounced like "wa". When は is not used as the topic particle, it's pronounced like "ha".
Replies: >>3470
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>I began on the Genki textbooks
at fucking last, that's the first step towards leaving niggerdom status behind. since you got the same pack I got you should have two genki books, the textbook and the workbook, as well as all the audio for each dialogue and exercise, now what you're gonna do is routine your work like this, by the way you'll need a notebook
>READ chapter in order, no skipping or skimming through it, read everything
>LISTEN to the audio paired with it whenever there is some FUCKING DO IT
>then DO the exercises that you get at the end or sprinkled through the chapter, yes write that shit on the notebook with your HANDS AND DON'T FUCKING SKIP THEM
done that you move onto the workbook and

this is if you want PROGRESS and not STAGNATION, you should be able to accomplish this in roughly a week time if you're an average non retarded nigger with at least 100 IQ, meaning, since there are 12 chapters in "genki I" in JUST THREE MONTHS you will have completed the first book all of its exercises and will have gone from straight zero to solid knowledge and understanding of the writing system, pronunciation, basic grammar, hundreds of nouns, verbs and sentences and about 5% of the must have kanji.

>while most of the symbols for "konnichiwa" as written from hiragana match what they're supposed to, the "wa" sound at the end is actually written using the hiraganic "ha" symbol, rather than the hiraganic "wa" symbol as expected. The audio clip, however, still sounds like a "wa" at the end to my ears. Perhaps a typo, or is "konnichiwa" actually transcribed in hiragana as "konnichiha" ?
that's because the topic particle "wa" is actually spelled ha but ONLY when it's used as a topic particle
>then why the fuck is it ha in this word
because konnichiwa and konbanwa are contraptions that are actually meant to be a longer sentence and had a topic particle in it, so it's retained as wa instead of ha. you'll find later that there's a similar occurance where the verb object marker is pronounced "o" while the syllable used it "wo", and then other shit as well which I'm not gonna explain.
Replies: >>3470
Today's hour is done. 
Iterrasshai (the romaji spelling) is a weird one, spelled in hiragana as I t te ra s shi y i. Going assumption will be that "shiyi ----> sha" for the future, we'll see if that holds or not. Genki sure does break down greetings fairly thoroughly though, and I massively appreciate the demonstration of the characters that represent doubled consonants in action, 
Hopefully I cover particles with these Genki textbooks soon, feels like the key to reading japanese at this point is understanding particles. 
>three months time
I don't know if I'll be that quick with just an hour a day and frankly room temperature IQ, took me two hours combined to finish recording all the greetings in their hiragan, romajic, and english translations, and I'm bredy sure I could only get about 7/11 of the proper greetings used in the bit that follows them directly.  but these are great textbooks for recognizing characters on sight so far, rather than needing a look up, as well as something handy like realizing the difference between the hiraganic "i" and "ri" is that the left stroke is much tinier than the right in "ri," and sometimes they appear to glue together. Genki was sure a good call though, high praise for it so far.
Replies: >>3473 >>3476
>Going assumption will be that "shiyi ----> sha"
In terms of romaji reading, that is, of course not in terms of actual character reading.
It's great that you actually started! Just keep on practicing. (it's the only way you can learn Japanese)

< https://www.edrdg.org/cgi-bin/wwwjdic/wwwjdic?1MDJ%A4%A4%A4%C3%A4%C6%A4%E9%A4%C3%A4%B7%A4%E3%A4%A4
> Iterrasshai
It's actually  itterasshai or  いってらっしゃい  (notice the little  っ  and the little  ゃ  ) 
しゃ  = Sha and  って  = Tte 
In other words, the little tsu and the little ya have special meanings:
< https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sokuon
< https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y%C5%8Don
Don't worry too much about this mistake. Native English speakers often have trouble with double consonants (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemination) and vowel length, in my experience.

> feels like the key to reading japanese at this point is understanding particles. 
Yup, particles and suffixes are one of the most important concepts. The textbook introduces them one-by-one in the coming chapters, I believe.

> I  don't know if I'll be that quick with just an hour a day
Don't worry too much about time, if you are self-studying. Just make sure you understand everything before you move on to the next chapter and you will be fine.
Mostly more words today, which I don't complain over since it's helping me memorize hiraganic and katakanic letters, although I am going to write the hiraganic and katakanic tables/voiced sounds side by side tomorrow that way I don't have to keep flipping between them in different places in my notebook. Also, I think japs spell english better then we do. Consider for example the word "ski." The katakanic romanization for this spells it as "sukii." I stared at this for a bit, and then realized that you cannot spell "ski" without the u sound that automatically, but ever so faintly, shows up when you go "suhkee." Why we choose to just abolish some letters when they represent sounds that definitely exist in saying words, I have no idea.
Replies: >>3478
>you cannot spell "ski" without the u sound that automatically, but ever so faintly, shows up when you go "suhkee." 
You're making yourself hear things; there is no phonetic or phonemic vowel between the /s/ and /k/ in 'ski'.
Replies: >>3481
>You're making yourself hear things
Maybe. But also the /s/ and /k/ consonants more or less force your tongue into the position of a short u vowel. There's always a little bit of a gap between consecutive syllables so it's not a crazy idea to think of it as suh-KEE with heavy stress on the second syllable. This idea doesn't hold for most other loan words though.
Really enjoying genki, managed to squish the hiragana, katakana, pronounced sounds, and "kyu" type combos onto one notebook page for easy access. Next was more words, but now I'm able to recognize some symbols on sight, like the hiraganic i, ka, ga, ri, and katakanic a off the top of my head, and then two of the hiraganic r_ characters, ru and ro (had to look that one up), are differentiated by the little bubble at the bottom stroke, ru having the bubble and ro not. Characters that go, for example, rei in hiraganic are always written as ree in romanji for some reason, not sure why, and then the "kyu"s and ilk seem to get mashed into "ku"s in the romanjii as well. Glad the romanjii is just a learning aid and not gospel by any stretch, if I remember my genki reading correctly, but extremely handy having the hiragana and katakana tables squashed into one page for fast access.
Replies: >>3525
learn the kana fast, get anki and do the kana drills, if you don't have all the kana memorized in 2-3 weeks at most you're a fucking dunce
Replies: >>3556
the best way to use Anki (or make your own flashcards) and practice kana by writing individual kana by hand until you know most of them and after that you should start answering your exercises in kana (and make your own exercises. just pick a few words from the chapter vocabularies and write them in rōmaji or English and translate them into kana)
No progress made today, wew. Was too busy falling asleep in my chair trying to study via putting pencil to paper, just an exhausting day apparently. Essentially, was able to record down some family words like obaasan, okasan, etc and then brain largely refused to function upon finally hitting the section that began discussing nouns in japanese sentences while largely ignoring the subject, as well as "desu" and other particles. So, finished out the hour with a cursory reading that was as heavy studying as I could apparently handle for today. And now, one last thing to do before I sleep, and god help me through it because my brain is scrambled eggs at the moment.
Replies: >>3561 >>3565
>while largely ignoring the subject
in the sense that Japanese largely ignore the subject of sentences according to the genki books (and other anons ITT) .
Replies: >>3565
> No progress made today, wew. 
It's ok. Just make sure you continue your studies tomorrow!

Usually the unnecessary stuff is omitted in sentences, unless the context alone isn't enough make the meaning of the sentence (more or less) clear.
Am reaching a really neat part of the book, have now learned about the "desu" (essentially for stating information about someone/thing, if I understand it right), "wa" for linking subjects to objects. For example, I believe "watashi wa (american) desu" should roughly translate to "I am american." That said, a far cleaner way to state this is "(american) desu", since the "ka" particle can be added to turn it from a statement into a question, ie. (american) desu ka. Finally, the no particle links nouns together, although I'm still learning about it so it probably has more uses. 
More kana memorized now too, writing them out in sentences helps for fast memorization. 
Correct me if I'm wrong on any of these particles and their purposes, that's just as I understood them from the readings, but really Genki is fantastic, feels like once you understand japanese sentence structure it's just one final step to understanding japanese itself, and that's increasing one's vocabulary with the various kana and kanji.
Replies: >>3615
は marks topics, not subjects. It just happens that the topic and subject are usually the same, especially in simple sentences. です is a copula; it means exactly the same thing as "be" (but isn't used in all of the same places). の is the genetive case particle, but also an inflected form of です; as such [noun¹]の[noun²] can indicate a lot of relationships between the two, and specifically, the most important one that Genki doesn't cover is "[noun²] that/who is [noun¹]".
All that said, you're understanding everything at the level the textbook is trying to teach right now; good job.
today's hour done earlier than usual. Haven't really learned any new particles that I can think of, just special rules for the "わ" particle that's spelled out using the "は" character, but spelled using the standard "わ" character when not a particle and not used at the end of certain phrases like こんいちは (konnichiwa). Started learning numbers 0-10, but only made it to one because I spent some 10-15 minutes figuring out that the "さ" character it used to describe an exception to いち  in how it's pronounced had the bottom stroke linked to the rest of the character for spelling out  いつさい .Bamboozled me for a while trying to find it, the character I had in my chart had the top two strokes and the bottom stroke completely separated such that the top two were floating overhead it. I just have to remember that sometimes strokes get linked together. Fun stuff either way.
each day's hour of japanese studying seem to flow right by now. It's extremely fun being able to match sounds to symbols in your head, and just writing them out repeatedly and in different contexts and sentences seem to be enough to start burning them into memory, which is very helpful. As for today, finished out some numbers, if I can get them from memory it goes rei ichi ni san ?  ? ? ? hachi jichi ? for 0-10.  Will have to review tomorrow to make sure I get them all proper, "ni" for 2 may be incorrect, although I think it's accurate, and jichi is likely incorrect. Also learned the title is chan for children, kun for boys, sensee for doctors/professors, and san is the generic title, and that you never title yourself, just other people.  
I'm a slow learner, I'm thoroughly enjoying this to be sure. 
>>2635 (OP) 
kaki?me is what the sign reads, which means who knows what, but either way a few steps closer. the bubble by it reads yatsuchiyatsutaga. Not sure what it means, but miles more than I ever thought I'd be able to do when I first started studying honestly.
more fun with numbers today. finished the first practice session, got the first variation on all of them but the ones that had a second variation I missed. At least they're written down from the lesson as a whole, so if I'm ever hurting for them I can find them, but for now I have the main variant memorized. Thusly, it goes
rei ichi ni san yon go roku nana hachi kuu juu. (kiyuu jiyuu if spelling by strict hiragana) . The number system seems to be fairly comparable to english's, surprisingly, with the notable exception that, for something like 13, it's jiyuusan rather than ours, which mentions the three first as in (thir-teen) while theirs indicates it's the 10's first with jiyuu, then san afterwards for the 1's place. 
Once again, humongous thanks to anons who mentioned genki as a learning source ITT. These are really good textbooks.
Up to section IV-a of the first genki lesson so far for today's hour, and now sick of numbers. Thankfully, we're getting back into phrases, and I was able to correctly state that "my  teacher" translates to わたしのせんせい
and thus, thanks in small part to the grueling numbers, more gana characters are memorised, and alternative drawings of hiraganic characters (space between strokes, either filled out or not) no longer trip me up like they used too. More tomorrow, exhausted for now, had to entertain company and that always drains me.
good thing I have a solid hour scheduled every day or today's bit would have made me flat out quit, now that I'm on to section 5 of the first lesson, which is constructing  sentences that describe a person in one facet or another like たけしさんはにほんじんです which should be "Mr. Takeshi is Japanese." I also have a difficult time remembering to add the honorifics at the ends of the surnames. I'm very glad that the audio tracks came along with genki so I don't have to go digging for new words for these descriptors.
Replies: >>3909
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Studying for 1 hour each day is better than not studying daily (even if you compensated by increasing the length of each study session!) Also, one more thing: Do not neglect practicing Katakana after you have learned hiragana. I made the mistake of not learning katakana properly and I gave up once I realized that learning Kanji (and Japanese) is impossible if you don't learn  both hiragana and katakana before starting to practice kanji.
Replies: >>3932 >>3939
I'll have to figure out a way to memorize both hiragana and katakana effectively, if for no other reason than to no longer have to flip back to gana/kata charts. Emphasis on effectively, because so far the only way I remember about half the ones I know being anything is through muscle memory, otherwise I can just look at 'em and they'll go right over my head. It might be worth it to pause genki until I have both the hiragana and katakana charts memorized, then return to where I was. I'll see how I do with tomorrow's hour of just memorizing gana and kana. 
It's a good thing you mentioned katakana specifically. I'd largely written it off after learning it was only for foreign words or to describe foreign things, but if it comes back to haunt you for kanji I'd better learn it after.
Hopefully you will re-acquire your desire to finish learning nipponese. My secret is a schedule I stick too every day so I do the thing even if it's the last thing I want to do on earth simply because it's on the schedule and I'll be able to check it off as done for the day.
Replies: >>3933 >>3939
write them a hundred times each on your notebook, also make paper cards with them on it and the roumaji on the back, mix them like a deck of cards and try and then go through them trying to say what they are out loud, anki works too though it's less involved that's how I did it when I went to school and I memorised both hiragana and katakana in a month time.
Replies: >>3934 >>3938 >>3939
and try to avoid as much as possible reading the roumaji script
Replies: >>3939
I like that card idea, thank you, I'll give that a go. Tomorrow should be productive with that method.
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> if it comes back to haunt you for kanji
Each kanji has 2 readings (that you need to worry about): one of the readings is written in hiragana and the other is written in katakana.
> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E4%BA%BA#Japanese
> https://www.edrdg.org/cgi-bin/wwwjdic/wwwjdic?1MKJ%BF%CD
For example person (the "jin" or "hito" in "Nihonjin " and "Tonari no hito ") is written like this: 「 人 」
Note:「 and 」are quotation marks, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quotation_mark#Chinese,_Japanese,_and_Korean 
Moreover, each Katakana character (and Hiragana character, but it's less clear) is based on Kanji.

> Hopefully you will re-acquire your desire to finish learning nipponese.
This thread has provided the much needed inspiration but, at the moment, I am not sure whether to start studying Latin or Japanese.

> write them a hundred times each on your notebook, also make paper cards
This is very good advice. Just make sure to make each kana/kanji large enough; I usually used 6-8 squares for each character when using regular squared paper, and once I learned to write the character, I reduced the amount of squares to 4.

(((rōmaji))) is a trap for beginners. It looks easier (and perhaps even better than kana) but rōmaji only hinders your progress. imo, rōmaji is only good for karaoke if you can't read kana.
Finished the cards today, I just slapped together the hiragana/katakana symbols on the same side and then the accompanying sound on the other side. I love them to death already, gives me something to read when I'm on the toilet. I also didn't worry about the combined sounds, since those are just two characters mashed together anyways, so that seemed redundant and I'll save on cards for future kanji. Fun hour though.
Replies: >>3971
Those flash cards work extremely well. At the end of the hour, I was able to correctly give the sound for all the hiragana symbols in a go through them. If I can repeat it again for tomorrow's hour, I'll start working on the katakana side of the cards, but either way that's a massive win. It looks like 
To put it in practice, the banner in the comic in OP reads "kaki(zo?maybe wo. Official guess is a "zo," I think those are weirdly drawn diacritic marks.)me. The bubble beside it then is "yatsuchiyatsutaga." No idea what these mean, but either way it's neat being able to read 'em. Genki should take care of that, and the textbooks should be much easier to progress through once the characters are all memorized.
>give me something to read
aren't you fucking doing the fucking exercises on genki? I told you to do them nigger
Replies: >>3975
Genki is on my computer in PDF form, and while I do have a laptop it's very bulky and I don't like to use it on the toilet. so I use my gana/kata flash cards instead.
Replies: >>3986
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>Genki is on my computer in PDF form
>while I do have a laptop it's very bulky and
Replies: >>3989
Oh, I haven't stopped doing genki, I've just paused it as I memorize the hiraganic and katakanic characters, which was, I believe, an important foundational step that I skipped. So far, hiraganic characters are memorized, and probably about 30% of the katakanic characters are now memorized with today's hour of study. Once these are memorized, it will be right back to the Genki books, which are really excellent, I'm simply trying to ensure I have the proper foundation laid out to learn on.
Replies: >>3990
Replies: >>4017
Oh. Yeah, just wasting the time then. Today's wasted time has roughly eight katakanic characters left to memorize at this point I'm so close it's gotten personal, so I must push through to the end which is tomorrow
So, one more day of study until I'm productive again essentially, right now it's just hubris and ego in memorizing these characters.
Finished the memorizations with 15 minutes to spare, and so back to genki. While I could now call to memory the characters that represents sounds, this did not aid me in spelling Seoul. I have no idea how to spell that word. Now that I think about it a bit more, it's probably a kind of se-i-yu-ru or something, so like セイユル . I really have no idea though, spelling out l's, I'm sure, just gets replaced by r's but there are many vowels to slap onto the back of it and I'm still unsure which one belongs. 
Either way, nice to be back to genki and not have to consult hiragana/katakana charts nearly as much as I used to need too.
Replies: >>4028
> Seoul
Easiest way to check a spelling of a word/name is to go to Wikipedo and change the language to 日本語
It seems that Seoul is actually ソウル  (compare this how Seoul is pronounced in English)
> http://nihongo.monash.edu/cgi-bin/wwwjdic?1MDJ%A5%BD%A5%A6%A5%EB 

When you are trying to figure out what a loanword means you should say it out loud: What does 「セルフサービス」 mean?  self-service, http://nihongo.monash.edu/cgi-bin/wwwjdic?1MDJ%A5%BB%A5%EB%A5%D5%A5%B5%A1%BC%A5%D3%A5%B9 

> spelling out l's, I'm sure, just gets replaced by r
Yup, in Japanese language there isn't a L-sound or a R-sound but rather a sound that's in between L and R (the sound is written using R in rōmaji)
Replies: >>4029
That's interesting, and makes more sense then the gobbledygook I guessed about. Thanks for that reference too, I'll remember it.
Replies: >>4034
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>that's interesting
Replies: >>4040
Yeah, you're right. Ultimately I was able to put down a few characters from memory, but I think the flash cards were time wasted and that I would have been better served working through genki. Hurt more than helped, in fact, since I need to review the rules for numbers again tomorrow, as I could only effectively remember 1-8 and forgot the rules for 10's and up on them. Will probably do a review of the previous exercises for first chapter too, that way I can have the actual queries committed to memory. 
The lucky thing is that I do this for an hour indefinitely, so I'll either die or learn japanese, whichever comes first.
Replies: >>4052
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>I think the flash cards were time wasted and that I would have been better served working through genki. Hurt more than helped, in fact,
no you jibber jabbering mongoloid, you were supposed to do BOTH at the same time, use the cards AND work your way through the textbook+exercises.
you were supposed to do a little of everything instead of just a lot of one thing, you CAN'T learn all the numbers from 1 to 100000000000000000 in one sitting, you can't learn all the kana in one sitting, you can't learn all the grammar in one sitting. and the good thing is you DON'T have to because you DON'T want to do that, you have to diversify what you're learning drop feeding bits of each
it's like
>a diet
you eat all the food in a balanced manner not too much of somethig or else you'll get a deficiency in nutrients in one place and an excess in the other
>playing tetris
you need to fill a line horizontally to clear it and you need multiple blocks to do so, you can't do it spamming the same block vertically over and over
>hitting the gym
you work different parts of the body not just your arms or your legs unless you want to look like popeye or a t-rex
in short, fuck you. why do I have to plan your shit, you should be paying me for this. do exactly this for the first chapter but generally applies to every other chapter
>first off do your cards but NOT ALL OF THEM AT ONCE, start with 15 hiragana/katakana/kanji characters or something
>then move onto the textbook and TRY to read the dialogue every chapter starts with, it doesn't matter if you can't read much, read WHAT YOU CAN
>then get your audio and LISTEN to the slant eyes speak the dialogue you just tried to read and try to follow the text with your eyes
>then do repetition audio exercise where it feeds you the lines one by one and gives you a bit of time to repeat them out loud
>NOW you can move onto the actual lesson, read that shit nigger READ IT ALL
>done that you can start doing the exercises on the textbook and I swear to fuck you best write that shit down because not only it teaches you how to write, it helps a ton consolidating shit and committing it to memory
>YES it's fine if you have to go back and glance at the rules and whatever else, YES it's fine if you have to go back and glance at the kana, YES it's fine if you have to go back and glance at the vocabulary with time you'll eventually learn those things by heart because of all the REPETITION, REPETITION, REPETITION, THAT'S THE POINT OF THE EXERCISES
>finished with the textbook exercises you move onto the workbook and do MORE fucking exercises, you do them ALL, you do them from numero 1 to numero LAST fucking exercise, no skipping and you do the ones with audio as well
>finished that you can go back to the dialogue at the beginning and be in AWE that now you can actually read and understand some of it, getting that sweet sweet dopamine hit that makes you want to continue
>obviously you won't be done with one chapter in one day, so just start from where you left off but do your card drills before, every single FUCKING day until you know them perfectly. ALSO WHY THE FUCK ONLY ONE HOUR ONE HOUR IS NOTHING DO TWO AT LEAST.

boom, done, now you do the same for every fucking chapter, just replace the hiragana with katakana once you've learned the hiragana, and then replace the katakana with the kanji once you're done with that as well.
also if you have a CIA phone I recommend getting obenkyo, that will be super useful for kanji later, it also has similar drills to ank as well as so other bells and whistles, in fact I kinda prefer it to anki.
fuck you again, you made me effort post on a shitposting board goddamn.
Replies: >>4055
I don't think he's taking it easy.
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oh dear, sorry about that. Thank you for those instructions, they're very thorough and I'll implement them for today's study and onwards, I hope I'll be able to pay it forward in the future by translating something from japanese. I now do a half hour for flash cards and then a full hour for genki alone (I try to up commitments in baby steps so I don't burn out on projects, like I've done that in the past. If I don't feel burnout coming on in the hour and a half, then two hours shouldn't be a problem. LIkewise, if two doesn't bring on any burnout then 2.5 hours and so on.) I've saved your instructions too, so even if the board explodes I won't lose them and so you won't have to type them out again. Thanks again, my learning shall, I think, be greatly accelerated using these methods.
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After receiving some very good instructions, I went ahead and restarted chapter 1 today along with the introduction to make sure I skip absolutely nothing this time around. I have now concluded the first practice with greetings. I also felt no burnout of any sort doing an hour and a half, and so I shall advance it to 2 hours tomorrow, one half hour for gana/kata memorization (which will evolve to kanji with time), then the other hour and a half for genki. forgive my cautiousness reimu sensei, it is my nature.
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>he was skipping stuff even though I had told him NOT to skip anything before
Replies: >>4095
Today's studies done. Not too much to report, I am glad I restarted since I caught things I glossed over before. Is tsu always a silent sound, since su exists, and would that also apply to dzu and zu? Will keep an eye out for that in the future, in every word of the genki dialogue that included it, tsu was silent  (only about 3 words so far though.) Went through some more vocab too, managed to pick up the ...ji ending this time around for time, jin (I think this one was "half"), nensee for inquiry as to year in university, go for language. 
yes, sadly, I treated it a lot more casually on the first read through than currently.
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won't worry about doing daily updates anymore, will just post now as questions crop up, since daily study is now a habit, and I never liked to blogpost anyways, but I thought it would help to make the habit stick. Huge appreciation again for being directed both to the genki books and how to study them properly, and now I return to lurking!
Replies: >>4156
I liked your blogposts, post more t. lurker
Replies: >>4157
oh, well, for today's studies, can write out all sounds in hiragana most of the time (references are now just to make sure I'm writing the characters properly, can read them on sight easy), can write out about 95% of the katakana consistently, don't know any kanji yet though. Almost to the first practice section of chapter 1 after I opted to restart the chapter so I could catch all the dialogue alongside the lesson from start to finish.
Replies: >>4161
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>follows easy spoonfed instructions
>makes more progress in 3 days than in 3 weeks
wow it's almost like, it's almost like you should've listened from the beginning
Replies: >>4162
I have a giggle when I remember I used to be trying to learn Japanese by exclusively watching anime. Should have only ever kept that one a hobby, takes no effort at all and it's sufficient to figure out how they enunciate their language mines regional dialectic peculiarities.
Replies: >>4163
>and it's sufficient
ONLY sufficient, I meant.
Genki does the enunciations better anyways.
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Really worth learning this stuff though for lurking anons who haven't committed, can't describe to you how fun it is to be able to translate, for example, the characters on this little screen to "zonbi rando saga."
>is tsu always a silent sound
it isn't, but in some words you don't really pronounce the U, like in tsuki=moon, it's just ts-ki, but in some words you do. unless you're talking about the sokuon the small tsu that doubles consonants, then yes, you don't pronounce that at all, it's just there to tell you "yo the next syllable's consonant is double so you better check'em"
Today's studies concluded, I finished the reading for chapter 1 and completely skipped Practice2A in the first chapter on my first reading through because it confused me. Since I've restarted, it is now done, along with practice2B, and all of practice1, with no particular confusion to speak of this time around. I believe I will conclude the rest of chapter 1 tomorrow, specifically practice sections 3 through 6 and then finally onto either the workbook for chapter 1. The fact that we discarded roman numerals in favor of filthy arabic numerals disgusts me, and I only learned about it at this exact moment because the genki workbook instructs you to write out phone numbers in both japanese and arabic numerals, and no wonder they get to boast that "civilization came from the  islamic golden age hurr durr." Amazing how I went through 13 years of public schooling without ever learning this fact.
Replies: >>4215 >>4217 >>4224
>onto either the
onto the workbook for chapter 1, I meant. So for today, chapter 1 text finished and up to practice section 2 finished, leaving 3-6 for tomorrow.
Replies: >>4217
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your fucking blogposts are making me want to restart my studies but at the same time I'm afraid I'm gonna drop it again and it's gonna impact my OTHER studies as well. FUCK.
>arabic numerals,
Actually it's a kind of misnomer because they are actually Indian in origin. However, the Indian numerals came to Europe after Europeans learned about it from Arabs, so the numerals are known as Arabic numerals in the West.
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Today's studies concluded, I wildly underestimated how massive practice sections 5 and 6 for the first chapter are, and so I conclude today almost finished with section 5, with the final "major" section to go. 
That said, I require clarifcation as to describing the age of a certain Suu of korean origin who is 20 years old. 
By my learnings, this should be
However, when I listen to the recording, it sounds more like 
The specific audio in question begins specifically at 2:31 and concludes at 2:34. 
This confuses me because genki stated that 2 is always "ni", hard and fast, and I also don't pick up the "sai" descriptor that determines age, as in the other examples. In short, is the audio file actually correct, or just a special exception, or did they get the wrong script?
Replies: >>4226
hatachi is an exception because it's the "coming of age" adulthood age, so they have a special word for it, you don't have to sai either after it. pretty sure the book mentions it somewhere, are you reading the vocabulary?
Replies: >>4227
yeah, i have been reading through the vocabulary, but it's always very possible I simply missed it, so I'll go back and have a look for it. Much appreciated, I wasn't sure what to make of that one.
Replies: >>4228
not actually to be found within that first chapter's vocabulary, turns out. It'll probably come up later in the book somewhere. Either way glad someone knew about it.
Replies: >>4229
Found it, it's at the very tail end of the first chapter after the exercise material, and in a "time/age" chart with the note "For 20 years old, hatachi is usually used, にじゆうさい (nijussai) can be used.
Intrasting to learn, I didn't know 20 was considered to be their special "coming of age" age.
a good page and a quarter of jap written out today, I look forward to the day I know how to write every character out with ease so I can start typing this out. For the lesson itself, section 5 (I started at e. of it, or the "majors") was all written out, group work included, of course I am the group so I got to write out both the question and answer sides to the queries. woohoo. Looking a bit ahead at part b. of section 6 practice tomorrow, looks like paradise since they write the question out and I just answer it, and all of them are either asking me to confirm or deny whether or not that is the said individual's age or occupation. It's going to be a much easier version of section 5's group work, basically. Section 7 wants me to repeat section 5 again except different since I'm asking "classmates" (in short making crap up.) for information. Either way, can't wait until it's all learned so I can type again.
First chapter concluded, now onto the chapter 1 workbook today. Found an answer key for it so I'll be able to check my work, but I don't think it'll work for the very first "greetings" portion since it lists 11 answers, while the book asks for 14 entries, which is confusing but I think will turn out fine since all greetings were written down earlier in my notebook. Looks like the genki answer key largely matches after that section though. Did have to look up sumemasen though, was not able to pull that one from memory, and I'm sure I'll have to do the same with most of the other greetings outside of the super common ones.
Today's studies went fairly smooth, just more cranking out of the first chapter in the workbook. I'll have to find an answer key for the workbooks themselves though, it finally struck me today that the "Genki I and II" answer key was specifically for Genki I and II. I'm not sure how I missed that yesterday. I think I'm ordering my sentences correctly that involve multiple nouns, but the answer key will know for sure on that, unless I can't find it in which case anon will have to become the answer key on the chance he's bored at the moment.
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anon always delivers, thanks a ton.
Today's work concluded, wrapped up the "listening comprehension" portion. I got, I think, 7 or 8 correct out of the 11, the ones throwing me being "finished eating", "coming home", good night (one of the more common ones I should have known) and one other.
Other than that, helpfully, name always seems to come first in sentences, which is very good for helping line up the nouns, and I need to make sure I just don't diacritically mark my characters the way I've been doing which is just quotation marks hovering to their top right. Works for me to read them, but I'm sure that's not proper writing.
Replies: >>4370
read this nigger
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didn't post again, thanks fish
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That's all katakana, and I'm 99% sure that's the literal translation.
For today's study, finished up the first chapter in the genki workbook, and have now proceeded to the second chapter of Genji. The workbook is helpful, I was able to learn that しちじ stood for 7:00 rather than
ななじ, on account of the workbook asking you directly for a time at 7. Other than that, the numbers were all done pretty easily. For chapter 2 of the genji workbook, all the vocabulary has been filled out with the exception of the vocabulary I had already filled out for the first chapter which were majors, family names (like father, mother) and countries. Fun to have advanced to a new chapter, and since chapter 1 teaches sentence structure the chapter 2 dialogue was a lot simpler to infer than the chapter 1 dialogue had been.
Replies: >>4374 >>4378
(I did also have the "shichiji" written down from the chapter 1 study, but I glossed over it. Workbook forced me to commit it to memory since the question was asked directly.)
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I was thinking of starting grammar once I hit the milestone of two thousand words in anki. Is that a good idea?

I know this is a month old post, but why do you detest french? I was thinking about learning it after Japanese.

I really appreciate your blog posts, it motivates me to keep going. So don't stahp.
Replies: >>4410 >>4436
>I was thinking of starting grammar once I hit the milestone of two thousand words in anki. Is that a good idea?
Personally, I would start studying grammar earlier because I think it might be easier and more efficient to gradually study the vocabulary and grammar at the same time (you are utilizing both when you are constructing/writing sentences, after all.)
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Ok, will keep this in mind. Thanks for the tip.
For today's study, concluded the chapter 2 reading and have now reached the chapter 2 practice. This chapter focused particularly on referencing object locations via speaker (kore), listener (sore) or far from both (are), as well as 
numerous derivatives of these, all of which, as I understand it, denote a slight variation by slapping a different sound on the end of the inquiry. For example, to describe places, koko is used. If an item were described, it would still be kore. 
Tomorrow's practice will flesh it out much more I'm sure, in terms of committing such to memory.
Replies: >>4437
oh, very good. People do seem to like these blogposts for some reason (deuce if I know why but glad they're apparently helping), so I'll likely continue indefinitely.
>to describe places, koko is used
should be "to describe a place near the speaker, koko is used."
More fun with numbers today, practiced -sen and -man for 1000 and 10000 via practice sections, and answered questions as to what an item is both close to and far away from the asker via sore and kore. Essentially rote learning, but it does stick in memory (minus the special numbers in the 100's and 1000's,  specifically さんびゃく、ろつぴやく、はつぴやく、さんぜん、はつせん。 300, 600, 0, 800, 3000, 8000 respectively. I'm not sure why a tsu gets stuffed in there, but that's how it is, will just have to memorize them I s'pose.
Replies: >>4461
kore being item near speaker and sore being item far away from speaker. Important details there.
More work on practice section of chapter 2. Quite tired today, so I doubt too much stuck, so I'll likely need to go back and review a bit. For example, I think asking for the price of a pen right beside you is "kono pen wa ikura desu ka" but I'm not completely sure. substitute sono for kono if pen is near cashier, or ano if pen is far from both you and cashier. I think this is correct and that ~re applies to places while ~no applies to things. Either way, some review tomorrow because too tired today to properly focus.
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Here's some nice infographics if you need help with counters
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Very nice, these should help quite a bit since they name specific objects too. Thank you much!
>>2635 (OP) 
Wrapped up the chapter two exercises today, but I did skip a crap ton of pair work and roleplay. For the pair work I just wrote down one iteration for both sides rather than repeating it multiple times for both sides, with the reasoning that the structure remained the same each time with just an individual noun change. Roleplay was similar, a copy of the dialogue at the beginning of the chapter with a specific noun changed out.
Now moving on to the chapter 2 workbook, if I get stuck here then I'll know I'd best head back and do all the pair work and the roleplay, but if I make it through chapter 2 workbook then I'll figure I've got it regardless. The downside is I don't have specific nouns written out to memorize through rote learning, but I do have the basic sentence structures understood which is dead useful for reading at least, sometimes still have to look back for writing. Will see how tomorrow goes anyways and if I understood chapter 2 well or not!
more goings through the workbook today. Numbers are down quite solidly, only ones I tend to misspell were the "special" ones that tend to take place around the 3's, six's, and eight's place for the hundreds and then 3's and 6's for the thousands (I think.) Can read them when I see them though, so I'm just fine with that. They tend to swap out the "ku" and "chi" with tsu and then diacritically mark the "hi" as "bi" or "pi" depending. In terms of reference to objects and locations in relation to speaker and listener, those are down solidly, and the sentence structure always seems to go "kore wa (person) no (object) desu (ka for question.) This sentence determines ownership of an object that happens to be near the speaker (sore for object near listener/actual owner, are for something away from both.) 
Similarly, if one were asking for the price of an object, it would go, for something in a display case behind the cashier as an example, "sore wa ikura no (object) desu ka. (alternately, you could probably just point and say "sore wa ikura desu ka." 
Beyond all that boring stuff, I'll re-iterate that it's extremely fun to be able to understand both written and spoken japanese, and learning proper sentence structure early on like genki teaches will be extremely helpful in future translation efforts, I think.
Today's studies done. Bit curious, I had assumed the phrase for "this is not x" was "ji arimasen" but it also appears it can be "jiyanai," at least in response to a query of "are you an office worker," with "iie, watashi wa kaijiyain jiyanai desu." I don't recall reading about that specific phrase in the genki book, although it's very possible I simply glossed over the thing, but now that I look back I'm not sure it was mentioned. That said, two more sections to go in the workbook before I begin chapter 3 of Genki! It's going decently so far, I think, in that I tended to only need to peek at the answer key for the specific noun that was wanted sometimes, but my sentence structure was correct otherwise.
Replies: >>4524 >>4552
I know you're just starting Genki right now, but have you tried Tae Kim yet? I know the guide on neocities reccommends looking at both him and IMABI.
Replies: >>4552 >>4558 >>4813
This needs a correction, it appears that "jiyanai" is more of a "is not mine" or "is not someone's" statement, as in "name no object jiyanai desu." Finished up chapter two in the genki workbook, and will be starting on the third genki chapter tomorrow/ I did reasonably okay on the listening portion, although I have to pay careful attention to not confuse go's for ro's when it comes to numbers, becausue they're very fast with the ku that follows it directly, and the same with quiet little "ni's." 
For the third chapter, thankfully, they've put the hiragana characters below each kanji character to show what the kanji represents, at least for the first dialogue. I may end up writing out kanji flash cards much earlier than I thought.
I did have a quick glance at Tae Kim, but I haven't put enough time into it yet to decide if it's really good or not, I ended up deciding to go with genki fairly early on. I imagine it's quite good, and I'll have to go have a look at it after I wrap up these genki books.
For marking down kanji characters to start memorizing, is there a definite most commonly used-least commonly used order anywhere? I figure memorizing the twenty most used would be a good start, then next twenty, etc. etc. etc.
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I can recommend Tae Kim's grammar guide as supplement to Genki (or your textbook of choice)

I assume you mean this: https://www.imabi.net
I wasn't aware of imabi.net. It looks like a very good resource.

>  is there a definite most commonly used-least commonly used order anywhere?
I'm not aware of that kind of list, unfortunately. But there is list of kanji according to school grade: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ky%C5%8Diku_kanji
Here is even longer list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C5%8Dy%C5%8D_kanji

> I figure memorizing the twenty most used would be a good start
I would start by memorizing simple kanji first. Some of the simpler kanji are what's called "radicals". Radicals are kind of smaller/simpler kanji that frequently appear as parts of more complex kanji. For example, 「男」(man) is made out of 「田」(rice field) and 「力」 (power, force)
Note: 「力」is not same as「気」(ki, energy, chi) In other words, 「力」means physical force and not a spiritual one.
Also, more autism: I have always liked how 「木」(tree) → 「林」(grove) → 「森」(forest, woods)
>Also, more autism: I have always liked how 「木」(tree) → 「林」(grove) → 「森」(forest, woods)
best not give him that kind of idea, kanji doesn't necessary represent what the are visually.
Replies: >>4599
Thank you, I forgot about radicals. I will certainly start putting those onto flashcards then, I think, like memorizing hiragana/katakana, this will much easier if I learn the building blocks.
To make sure I still have my hiragana properly memorized, the words on that picture are
"Ataito Ge(I'm counting the bow as diacritic marks)nwo(o?)moyo(o?), right? I think the dashes are extenders, albeit it's katakana mixed in with hiragana, or maybe they're nothing,
Replies: >>4563 >>4564 >>4599
> I think the dashes are extenders, albeit it's katakana mixed in with hiragana, or maybe they're nothing,
Rather, I think the dashes are vowel extenders from katakana.
Replies: >>4565
oh. thank you, I see it now. kind of. that is one goober of an "so," but yeah, the "ki" shows up now.
For today's studies, I muddled through probably about 3/4 of chapter 3 vocab, since Kanji is in the mix now, and wrote out the first 25 radicals on flash cards based on this website: 
I'm breddy sure I'm into the kanji now, unless genki is throwing chinese characters at me and if so I would have no idea. Hopefully memorizing the radicals as I continue through genki will help me understand the kanji before it's too late, but I s'pose if I hit that kind of wall I can just devote all my time to kanji memorization as catch up.
each chapter gets more interesting than the last, feels like. This particular chapter goes over verbs and actions for present/future affirmative negatives, dictionary terms, and the stems of them, while walking out some kanji. Luckily, the lesson manages to be comprehensible even without the kanji memorized. In terms of actions as described, at least for the few verbs I've learned so far, masen seems to be the negative, as in Y is NOT doing x thing right now, while masu means Y IS doing x thing right now. Ru verbs, U verbs, and irregulars also come up, and the book says it's important to remember the conjugation class. I hope that means masu, masen, and then just regular ku's and ru's for the dictionary terms. One step closer to being able to understand animu without needing to read the subs though.
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I just wanted to point out that using 「よ」 particle can be difficult to use (よ is one of the "gobi" (ending) particles). It is used when you think that the listener doesn't know something you are about to say. 「よ」 can also be used to make your statement more "forceful".
> for more info: http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/grammar/adverbs#_sentence_ending-2
It's important to keep in mind that you can sound like a smart ass if you use it too carelessly (which is why I wanted to point it out)

Important point

>I think the dashes are extenders
It's important to know that 「~」 and  「ー」 are different:
「ー」 is used to make a long sound (usually only when using katakana; don't use it when writing in hiragana), for example: write「へえ」(Hē, this one is pretty tricky to translate) or 「コンピューター」(Computer) or 「コーヒー」 (coffee)
「~」 is used to indicate the manner or the way how a word is being pronounced by the speaker, for example: 「は~い」 ("Yeees")
(in other words, use 「~」when the speaker is just pronouncing a word using a long sound and use 「ー」when the word would be grammatically incorrect if it did not have a long sound) 
「~」can also be used when you would otherwise use a dash "-" (a dash would be easily confused with a 「ー」), for example when you would want to write a suffix alone (i.e. without attaching it a word), you would write 「~ます」, for example.
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Lots more kanji today than I've encountered before, I think I could probably write a bredy gud "watashi" in kanji from memory if I had too. Today was primarily going over the particles "he, ni, wo, and de" and then examples and descriptions of how they interact with the nouns they're attached too. ni can be used to describe "goals of movement," and time references, he can be interchanged with ni on goals of movement but nothing else, "de" tells where an event described by the verb takes place, and "wo" describes that two objects are directly interacting with each other, like "I read book, I play game, etc." , if I understood my genki correctly. Now my hand takes a rest from writing out kanji, that was a lot of it today.
>It's important to know that 「~」 and  「ー」 are different:
Ah, thank you, that is a really good thing to know. I thought it was just a katakana dash with a twist for fun, but yeah, it's good to know those are two actually different characters.
Almost through the chapter 3 study material. Learned (wrote down, deuce if I'll remember any of it) special rules for the "ni" particle, which seems to have lots of them, learned about some adverbs, and wrote out a bunch more kanji, I'm now sure I can recognize "watch", "I", and "read" kanji on sight now. Memorized the first 25 radicals from that one website today too, so if they stay memorized I'll mark down the next 25 tomorrow. Sadly was quite tired while studying today, so I'm not sure hardly anything will have stuck, but at least it's written down so there's a chance.
Finished chapter 3 study today, now working on practice session. Sadly, I'll already have to go back and review what the specific rules are for slapping "masu" and "masen" onto verbs to make them either "presently doing thing" or "not presently doing thing", specifically in what characters are replaced and which are allowed to remain. First 25 radicals are still memorized, so tomorrow I'll end up reviewing kana again to stay sharp because I forgot to write down the next 25 radicals today.
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are you doing the exercises?
Replies: >>4657
Both workbook and regular genki
No studies today, have decided to go monday-saturday with sundays off (sundays are always my busiest days, so this'll free up a little time.) Shall report again tomorrow!
Today's studies concluded, have written out tomorrow's set of radicals to memorize, and tried to go through some more of the Chapter 3 practice session. However, I am struggling in it quite a bit, far more than I did for Chapter 2's study, so I think I'll start it over from the beginning tomorrow and try and make sure I catch everything properly this time. I suspect it's the introduction of kanji that's throwing me for a loop, and that the sentences are significantly more complex than they used to be. With enough effort I hope I'll understand soon enough.
Replies: >>4672
by "it over" I meant the full chapter. I did that for the first chapter in the past, seemed to help a lot, but I'd also nearly had all the kana memorized so I'll have to see how it goes without the kanji memorized.
Replies: >>4673
kanji takes time, you might want to follow tae kim's arrangement and so some anki drills
Replies: >>4674 >>4931
I'll have to have a peek then, I hear about tae kim a lot, and see if memorizing the radicals is the correct next step to learning the kanji.
Replies: >>4813
It was a good choice to go over the chapter 3 material again, and after doing so I was able to go through the first practice session reasonably easily. It seems in most instances the "ru" at the end of the verb is just wiped away to be replaced by "masu" or "masen," but occasionally it can get replaced by "ri" for "rimasu/rimasen." "ku" tends to be replaced by "ki" for "kimasu/kimasen", as does mu for "mimasu/mimasen." "su", similarly, tends to be replaced by "shi" for "shimasu/shimasen." 
It is likely I will need to review the future practice sections as well, I don't think I did a very good or thorough read through of the chapter 3 text the first time. Another set of 25 radicals are nearly memorized as well, and I find them considerably easier to memorize than I did the kana, I think because most of them do tend to resemble the picture (the "snake" radical does resemble a coiled snake, for example.) they are attached too. Good day though, the genki texts are quite thorough when you put in the proper care to learn from them.
Replies: >>4705
I haven't been on here for a while and I've been neglecting my studies again, but I continue to appreciate your efforts. Good job.

And that's good that you are remember the radicals to the characters. I myself personally need to make an effort to remember radicals because it just makes the Kanji so much more easier to look up.
Today's studies concluded, I find myself crawling through the chapter 3 practice session not actually because I don't understand the material, but because I'm trying to find the proper noun for the questions asked (like katakanizing "mcdonalds," which I still don't know how to do and just ended up writing in mickey d's since it's our word anyways so why bother.) 
Generally, I've just ended up listening to the noun portion to fill in the question after if I couldn't find it in my notes, and then structuring the rest of the answer , i.e "noun" "particle" "verb". Particles are really handy little devices though, they impart a tremendous amount of meaning to a sentence despite just being one character, and also help separate parts of a sentence from each other. Just dead useful really. More crawling tomorrow though, it is really nice to be able to understand the sentences even if I'm not familiar with the specific nouns.
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>(like katakanizing "mcdonalds," which I still don't know how to do and just ended up writing in mickey d's
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this pic made me visualize walking around japan and just replying to everyone in english based on whatever I thought they said
thanks for the laugh
Replies: >>4718
Heh. That's about how it sounded on the audio. That could be it, honestly. I think I'll try to katakanize it tomorrow, but I'll have to review katakana again first, a great source of trouble was the fact that I simply couldn't conjure up the katakana symbols I thought would be necessary to match the sounds. 
It could work, I think they may actually be taught english over there, verses our "spanish" teaching which is basically nothing. I remember pollo is chicken and amarillo is yellow, and that's because I took great amusement in calling one of the mexicans in the class a "pollo amarillo."
Replies: >>4739
I look close to meztiso or whatever and tan really easily, I get hispanics occasionally starting in spanish
know what puta means, that's a popular one
sometimes can idiot divine what some spanish word means but that's all it is, idiot divination
they gave you a choice in the schools I went to, I tried french and failed pretty hard
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>like katakanizing "mcdonalds,"

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Hv4vhzJT-A  ←  reference to this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOkXT2zGj34 

I head that's actually a word used in Tōkyō slang: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E3%83%9E%E3%83%83%E3%82%AF
Replies: >>4780 >>4802 >>4813
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finally found the pic I wanted to originally post don't ask me to translate...
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Much appreciated lads, the (you)s are nice as is the help. Today's studies done (albeit late, brother came to visit) I'm impressed at how well these genki people have taught the material. In their craftiness, one of the sentences you're asked to construct contain a noun, a time, a location and a verb, which amounts to the usage of four separate particles to really help you learn the specifics of what each particle can do, ie. "ni" for time of an event, "de" for where the event takes place, and "wo" for the direct interaction between the noun in question and the verb. Genki has explained that the order of the sentences can be reasonably loose so long as they contain all the necessary information, but so far the listening portions have constructed such sentences as "time ni place de object wo action." 
In other news, I realize that, for whatever reason, the katakana I copied onto my cards, for whatever reason, is written in almost a hiragana-like style (curvy), while most katakana I encounter tends to be far more angular and jagged. So, to test, I shall see if I can translate the name in the field here by simply remembering the general directions of the strokes
donarudo . makudonarudodesuwa
Ah. Thank you finland, I was wondering how you katakanized that word, appreciate the legwork a ton.
soon I shall be able to translate. Anyways lads, nipponese can get sticky to learn at times, but the trick is to schedule this so personal motivation doesn't factor into any of it, you just do it because if you don't you'll feel craaaaaaaazy guilty for not following what you scheduled.
Replies: >>4803 >>4813
>four separate particles
three, although supposedly "ni" and "he" are interchangeable in the sense of "the goal towards which things move." It's still a bit abstract for me, but genji'll probably show examples to iron it out later. and uhhh, more practice work done, bit closer to genki chapter 3 workbook.
Replies: >>4807
They are basically interchangeable, but if you have to use に for something else, you should use へ; in general, Japanese avoids using に for more than one function in a single clause. Also, it's pronounced the same as え.
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Little disclaimer: I'm the anon who quit his Japanese studies after he neglected his Katakana studies for too long. I recently started thinking whether it would be worth it to try to play the Japanese version of Pokemon Crystal or something. I know that the older GB/C and GBA Pokemon games are written in 100% kana-only (and there is a lot of katakana). Or perhaps Yotsuba&! would be worth a try? I guess Japanese Pokemon Crystal would be better since I have played the English version in past but I don't know enough grammar/vocabulary to understand either.

> Tae Kim http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/grammar and http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/translations/
> https://www.imabi.net
I think having a good textbook is very important but it shouldn't be your only resource. I used Tae Kim's guide in the past and I just looked a bit more into IMABI and it seems very useful as well.

Also, regarding the「わ」gobi...  My understanding is that it can sound very soft/feminine (especially 「ですわ」 ?) Obviously, it is more advanced topic and I have gut feeling that 「わ」should be left unused, unless you are sure what it means/sounds and it should be used Also, according to https://www.imabi.net/gobiii.htm the intonation can make a difference how it sounds like or what kind of impression/meaning it adds.

That being said, however. よ and ね (and よね) are required knowledge imo. https://www.imabi.net/yone.htm and http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/grammar/adverbs#_sentence_ending-2

> makudonarudo
I confess that I had to look up how "McDonald" is written in katakana. But I learned 「ドナルド」from watching MADs.
Today's studies concluded, I continue to crawl my way through the practice section due to having to look for each obscure noun required. Progress is progress, though, and it looks like I'm at the last section and will be going over adverbs. For times like "today" and "tomorrow" I didn't really pick up on any "de" or "ni" particle separator in the listening segments like I had for the others, so I'm not sure what to make of that.  I would have expected a particle in there like there were for standard times (3:00, 5:30, etc.) 
I think I will transcribe the vocabulary directly before the practice section for chapter 4, that way I won't have to keep flipping back for miles through my notes to find one random word that's requested. I'm also not entirely sure why I got to this so late today, I don't really recall wasting any significant amount of time but it's a few hours later than I normally try to study the jap anyways.
happy saturday maties. Today I moved onto the genki workbook chapter 3, which is going smoothly so far; nothing particularly confusing, other than nouns I don't necessarily recognize yet. Have to see if I can still say that on monday since I don't study on sundays anymore. First section was just copying down the thirteen verbs from the lesson, next section was using the present affirmation/negative versions of them alongside two similar nouns, i.e "watashi wa coffee wo nomimasen" and then "watashi wa ochiya wo nomimasu." Bredy simple, only trick, like I said, is not recognizing some of the nouns. Anywho, more on monday!
Today's studies concluded, some more work done through the third chapter of the Genki workbook, now onto chapter 3 section 4 part 2, constructing your own sentences to encapsulate a given verb via "describing your day." I think I will just make things up using the nouns provided in the material, because I don't know the nouns for the things I usually do, nor are they in the first three chapters of Genki (may come up later). In other news, wrote out the next 25 radicals to memorize. I hope those aren't a dead end, I have my suspcions when the fellow here on this specific page (https://japaneseradicals.wixsite.com/japanese-radicals/61-90) states "For those of you wondering what in the world is a 'halberd', radical #62, it is a spear with an axe head attached. Some halberd had only a long blade attached to a pole. In either case, it can't be called a 'spear', which is radical #110. So, whatever other name you wish to give it, it can't be ’spear’."
I really hope that means these names aren't just interpretive and actually attempt to at least vaguely describe the meaning behind the radical. If they are purely interpretive, then learning the radicals this way is probably a waste of time.
Replies: >>4869
>I really hope that means these names aren't just interpretive and actually attempt to at least vaguely describe the meaning behind the radical. 
That depends on kanji (and this problem isn't limited to only radicals but kanji in general): Some radicals actually stand for the actual thing (by "thing" I mean the meaning of the kanji) while other radicals stand for the "general concept" or "theme" of the meaning of the kanji radical. Some kanji (in general, not just radicals) do actually (visually) resemble the thing they are describing while others are more abstract and harder to connect the meaning to the character. The best way to think about kanji is to view them as kind of pictures instead of written words (sometimes the meaning can become more clear this way).

Personally, when I was studying Japanese, I followed the Kyōiku Kanji/Jōyō Kanji order (the order that's used in schools in Japan):
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ky%C5%8Diku_kanji
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C5%8Dy%C5%8D_kanji
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_j%C5%8Dy%C5%8D_kanji
The reason for this was that I hoped that I would be able to read children's stories in Japanese (for practice). But pls note that the Japanese textbooks that have been written for foreigners follow a slightly different order. Also, I think that everyone who's learning Japanese should eventually learn the kanji radicals, since radicals appear as "parts" of more complex kanji and you can search kanji from dictionaries based on the radical. Also, speaking of kanji, IF my memory serves me ​correctly, I recall that the general rule is that 「オンヨミ」(onyomi aka Chinese reading) is used when 1 word is written using 2 kanji. But  「くんよみ」 (kunyomi aka Japanese reading) is used if there is grammar stuff (hiragana) between the two kanji AND when 1 kanji stands for 1 word by itself.
Replies: >>4873 >>4882
>「くんよみ」 (kunyomi aka Japanese reading) is used if there is grammar stuff (hiragana) between the two kanji AND when 1 kanji stands for 1 word by itself.
I mean tthere are 2 separate cases when you should use kunyomi readings. Also, I can't remember how often there exceptions to this rule.
Another few sections done in the chapter 3 workbook's homework. I feel slow, but since I'm answering most questions correctly I know I'm absorbing the material properly, except on the ones I don't get correct of course, plus I was able to understand chapter 3's starting dialogue minus little phrases I'd forgotten. Another couple sections are finished, and it looks like I may have the workbook done for chapter 3 tomorrow.
Radicals are currently what I'm working on now, the only kanji I'm familiar with are the ones so far presented in Genki. That chinese reading verses japanese reading sounds really important and will probably throw me bredy gud by the time I actually reach it. So far, I've been pulling my radical learning from
and so I really hope they're correct. So far I do recognize the "private" radical as having made in appearance in the kanji for watashi, so I think at least some of the radicals on the site must be accurate.
Replies: >>4931
More studying done, finished the workbook chapter 3 in genki, so now on to the fourth chapter in Genki tomorrow! I think I got about 70% or so of the listening section at the end, which I'm okay with since the goal is reading this and not hearing it anyways, and the reading I'm doing breddy gud on. My computer's fans have decided to start cycling on and off on me over and over, so that's probably a fun side effect of wangblows 10  and its pajeet programming; I really, really, really need to figure out some linux distro as a replacement for my sanity's sake. Or maybe it's just a today thing, I'm not sure, either way I'm going to lose my tiny little mind if these fans keep cycling on and off every five seconds.
Replies: >>4902 >>4931
setting the fans to silent in the bios helped a bit, although I'm breddy sure that was never the issue to begin with because the fans ran pretty quiet continually before, minus this weird rev-up/cycle down thing they were doing.
That seems to have decreased in frequency with the BIOS adjustment though, so w/e. Maybe I should set it to full power, if it's constant it can at least bleed into the ambience but if it's on-off-on-off-on-off there's no chance of that happening.
Replies: >>4904 >>4931
eh, that did nothing. Now they're on full speed. If that doesn't work, I visit a tech board and beg them to share with me the knowledge of the machine. As the rev up/rev down cycles have ceased, I am heartened that perhaps that fixed it (and even on full speed the fans are really very quiet, so it must be some crappy stock fan in there.)
Replies: >>4931
> Radicals
My understanding is that some radicals are a kanji character by themself while other radicals are only used as "building blocks" for more complex kanji. A lot of simpler kanji are actually radicals. Also, sometimes a radical can look a bit different depending on where it is placed in the kanji character. Honestly, I don't know if learning all of the radicals is worth it early on. As >>4673 said, you might want to actually just start learning kanji according to a different order, for example:
> http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/complete/kanji
> https://scriptin.github.io/kanji-frequency/
> https://www.imabi.net/l1kanji.htm
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ky%C5%8Diku_kanji

> That chinese reading verses japanese reading sounds really important
Just for the record, you actually need to know both for each character.

Just wrote a reply at >>>/tech/1598
If games are the only reason why you keep Botnet 10 installed, you should look into dual-booting. You can use gparted (which is a GUI application) to resize the Windows 10 partition from Linux LiveUSB. If gparted isn't included in the Xubuntu/Kubuntu LiveCD, you can install it by opening a terminal and typing apt update && apt install gparted and running gparted by typing sudo gparted & (or by launching it from the menu)
Replies: >>4944 >>4957 >>4977
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First of all what is stress (in a language/speech) and wtf is a pitch (and how stress and pitch are different)? In Finnish language, the stress is always on the first syllable and the pitch doesn't vary at all (?). I guess this is the reason why Finns can sometimes sound like "text-to-speech" when they speak.

There are some words/names that are pronounced nearly the same in Finnish and Japanese, such as "kani" (Finnish: "rabbit" ; Japanese "crab"), and quite a few more. But there are also some significant differences in pronunciation (like L/R, J, W). The double consonants (consonant lengthening) or vowel length in Japanese aren't a problem for me since there is similar feature in Finnish. I understood that native English speakers have often trouble hearing/distinguishing them. Does the lack of future tense cause any trouble for you? I would imagine that it's absence isn't a big problem. There isn't future tense in Finnish either, so it isn't a problem for me. However, the meaning of future tense was quite difficult to grasp at first (what do you mean that the action takes place later in future? and how it's any different from present tense anyway?) when I was learning English in elementary school (started at 3rd grade). Also, I should have probably said this earlier, but the I think suffixes in Japanese (and also in Finnish) can be quite similar to prepositions in English. However, in Japanese there a particles where in Finnish there would be even more suffixes. For example, to make a yes/no question you would add -ko (or -kö) suffix to a word in Finnish: "luetko?" = ''will you read?/are you reading?" but in Japanese you would use the ka particle. I have digressed a lot already, but I have heard that a lot of native English speakers have a hard time understanding accusative case for example in Esperanto (https://lernu.net/en/gramatiko/akuzativo) and Finnish.

Sometimes you can be "blind" to how your own native langue works. For example, according to
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_language 
Finnish has a features that's called "Vowel harmony" (wtf?)
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vowel_harmony#Languages_with_vowel_harmony
- Korean
- Turkish
- Hungarian
- in some of the Kansai dialects
- Tibetic languages
- Mongolian
 I hate Wikipedia so much!!!

Apparently, because of vowel harmony (in order to maintain it), Finns sometimes mispronounce words of foreign origin, for example polymeeri (polymer) can be mispronounced like "polumeeri" (a single words shouldn't have vocals from both groups "a, o, u" and "ä, ö, y" however vocals "i, e"  can  appear in any word.) This video might make the concept of vowel harmony more clear: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZiAU9om1PI
Also, sometimes suffixes also slightly change because of vowel harmony:
"pöytä" = table
"pöydällä" = on table (not "pöydälla")
"tuoli" = chair
"tuolilla" on chair
For example: "Pöydällä on kahvikuppi." = literally: On table is coffee cup. = There is a coffee cup on the table.
(n.b. there aren't articles "a", "an" or "the" or any equivalents in Finnish)
Another example: "virolainen" = Estonian ; "venäläinen" = Russian

Anyway, the point of all this autism is to firstly, illustrate that what you already know can make it easier to learn another language. Secondly, if you don't have a concept of something in your native language and you don't know a language that has them, it can sometimes affect the way you are likely going to think.

if you are looking for a replacement exhaust fan, I was going to buy an Arctic P14 140 mm fan but I ended up just using the exhaust fan that was preinstalled on my case. There are both PWM variant (and PST) and non-PWM variant available.
Replies: >>4957
Today's studies are done, mainly just dialogue and vocab for the coming chapter. The kanji I had thought represented "listening" also seems to be a stand in for describing an object as being between two other objects, so context will have to be paid attention too. 
>If games are the only reason why you keep Botnet 10 installed, you should look into dual-booting. You can use gparted (which is a GUI application) to resize the Windows 10 partition from Linux LiveUSB. If gparted isn't included in the Xubuntu/Kubuntu LiveCD, you can install it by opening a terminal and typing apt update && apt install gparted and running gparted by typing sudo gparted & (or by launching it from the menu)
I think dual booting will be a good way to idiot-proof it, that way the installation doesn't go south. I did try to partition in the past, and I'm not sure what occurred but for some reason I bailed on the installation (maybe I felt it was taking too long for such a small size in memory, I'm not sure.) 
>I understood that native English speakers have often trouble hearing/distinguishing them.
Everytime a jap says "ro" I hear "do." Swear on me mum I just can't distinguish some consonants from others, they sounds exactly like the other in my ears rather than how they're supposedly spelled in english.
>lack of future tense
Not yet at least. Simplifies it a bit, really. 
>but I have heard that a lot of native English speakers have a hard time understanding accusative case for example in Esperanto
Yeah. We really change nothing when it comes to nouns, for example "The painting is in the museum" "I want to see the painting" "The painting is burning" "The painting was sold at auction" "The painting was painted in the past" "The painting is commissioned for next week"
etc. etc. 
We only have three articles, so other languages changing whatever word precedes their noun based on the situation would take a bit of head wrapping about. 
I assume this is what accusative case is. I could be wrong, I've never actually heard of it before now.
"vowel harmony"
>- Korean
>- Turkish
>- Hungarian
>- in some of the Kansai dialects
>- Tibetic languages
>- Mongolian
>replacement fan
I'll keep that in mind. I'm waiting for prices to die down right now, not that that'll ever happen because of memecoin mining
but it's possible the fans will explode and I'll be obligated to get one regardless, not there yet though.
Replies: >>4958 >>4977
>Everytime a jap says "ro" I hear "do."
Or rather, at least in one case as I was going over vocab. I distinctly hear the "ro" in "roku."
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> apt update && apt install gparted
you need to prefix the commands with sudo, like so:
sudo apt update && sudo apt install gparted
sudo basically means "run the following command as admin (root)". Whenever you are doing something that affects the whole system (as opposed to a command that affects only your personal files), you need to run it as root (for example by using the sudo command). Also, check whether gparted is preinstalled on the Xubuntu LiveUSB (because it actually might be).

I guess I should have said it in the last post, but in Finnish Turku dialect, you can ask a question by using negation. I stole this example from the Finnish language Wikipedia page: "Ei me mittä kaffelle men?" = (literally) "[So] we don't go for coffees?" = "Shall we go for coffees?"
The reason why this example is perhaps more meaningful for the topic at hand, is that you can form questions (proposals) in a similar way in Japanese, too.
For example the phrase "yaranaika" (see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1G_anKcBaW8 and the sauce yaoi mango there is no way I would look up something called くそみそテクニック) 
「やらないか」 = Do [it] + not + ka-particle (at least I think it's a particle here) = "Wanna fug?"

>some consonants sound exactly like the other in my ears rather than how they're supposedly spelled in english.
I think this might be because in English language a letter can correspond to multiple different sounds (depending on the word) whereas in Japanese the sounds stay nearly the same. Also, there are significant differences how English and Japanese are pronounced (even more different than when comparing Finnish and Japanese). By "double consonants" I mean "consonant lengthening" (which is the correct term). For example, 「まって」 ("matte" as opposed to "mate"). The languages you know can really change the way you hear other languages that you either don't know at all or the languages you are currently learning. For example, a lot of anons say that they hear "sausage" in the Lucky Star OP, but I can't hear it at all. I guess it might be because the sounds sound like a bit similar to a word in the other language so your brain has a tendency to kind of "auto-complete" it to make it fit into what you already know or something?

> accusative case
cont. In Finnish accusative case is mostly limited to personal pronouns in practice.
> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sin%C3%A4#Finnish
> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sinut#Finnish
> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/kirja#Finnish
in Finnish, accusative case is either very similar to nominative case or genitive case. But in Esperanto (and other languages, such as Latin) accusative case has a bigger role and it is not similar to the nominative case or genitive case. There isn't anything like the accusative case in English, which is the reason why it is hard to explain it in English. In Japanese there is the 「を」particle which is a bit similar to the accusative case, or at least I think so, anyway.

> Dual-booting Linux
> I bailed on the installation (maybe I felt it was taking too long)
Xubuntu (and other "flavors" of Ubuntu) install some upgrades during installation if you are connected to Internet, so it's possible the installer is just stuck on fetching upgrades. Also, gparted is better/easier than the partition tool in the installer (or whatever Kubuntu/Xubuntu LiveCDs have preinstalled). You should reserve at least about 30 GB for Linux (even though Xubuntu fits in like 10-15 GB). When the Xubuntu installer asks you to select the target partition, you should select "something else" and select the the space you freed up using gparted (unless there is an option to automatically select the free space. I can't remember). Also, I think I didn't mention it before, but Xubuntu (and other flavors of Ubuntu) offer 2 different kind of releases: regular releases and LTS releases. The difference is that LTS releases offer long-term support. In other words, you get upgrades for 3 years (I think) before you need to upgrade to the next release. In practice, it doesn't make much of difference (and the release upgrade is just like a large regular upgrade, anyway). Also, you can always change the settings and select whether you want to upgrade to the next regular or the next LTS version (regardless of which kind of release you installed). If you run into problems, you can ask here (or at /tech/). You can also use ArchWiki (https://wiki.archlinux.org/) or you can connect to the Ubuntu/Xubuntu IRC using the LiveUSB.
Replies: >>4985
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Today done, but was breddy tired so I don't think I retained too much, just dilligent note taking. So far, the lesson has primarily been about very detailed instructions, as well as introduction of the particle "ga" used instead of "wa" in some situations to "present or introduce an item." 
For example, "Jikanga arimasuka" means, roughly, "Do you have time?" I'm not totally sure yet as to why ga replaces wa though, will have to learn it tomorrow when I'm less tired. Other materials from the lesson discussed directions in much greater detail, as well as differences between "desu," "arimasu," and "imasu," along with their respective usages. 
I do like how simply throwing "ka" on the end of a sentence turns it into a question. Extremely convenient. 
>yaoi mango
>matsute to denote "matte." 
Now that's interesting. I never thought of tsu as being used for consonant lengthening, now its existence makes much more sense. 
I'll have to keep an eye out for that accusative case as I learn more Japanese, too, because yeah, I really hadn't learned it existed until you mentioned it in the last post. 
>30 GB reserved for Linux
Very good to know. 
I'm sure that will be extremely useful too, as well as that you can connect to ubuntu/xubuntu IRC using Live USB. 
Arigato, all very useful information. I have quite a bit of space free on one of my HDD's, so I will hopefully be able to partition it when some time frees up, would be really fun to have finally successfully installed Linux to start removing the wangblows 10 shackle.
Replies: >>4986
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> the particle "ga" used instead of "wa" in some situation
I can't remember the details, but the difference is that wa introduces a new topic while ga particle is used to mark the subject. Also, I think the ga particle binds the subject more tightly to the rest of the sentence whereas wa just introduces the general topic. I guess you could say that ga particle adds more emphasis? Wa particle and ga particle can be very similar sometimes, but it's actually more complex than that.

> For example, "Jikanga arimasuka" means, roughly, "Do you have time?" I'm not totally sure yet as to why ga replaces wa though,
Well, I am 100% sure, but I think ga particle is also used when you are talking/asking about existence of something, IIRC.

>simply throwing "ka" on the end of a sentence turns it into a question. 
Strictly speaking, it becomes a yes/no question (meaning you basically are asking for a confirmation). For example, "Anon wa gakusei desu" can be turned into a question by adding the ka particle at the end: "Anon wa gakusei desuka.".
If I'm not totally mistaken, the 「~ない」suffix (which means "no" or "not") turn it into a suggestion.

>matsute to denote "matte." 
It's important to know that 「っ」(literally the little tsu) is different from the regular tsu 「つ」Little tsu also has the exact same function in katakana. Compare: 「ッ」 and 「ツ」
Also, speaking of ツ, the way to (hopefully) distinguish between 「ツ」 and 「シ」is to pay attention to the first 2 strokes (the part that looks like  " ): in the katakana shi character, the first 2 strokes are vertically parallel (almost on top of each other) and in the case of tsu they are horizontally parallellel (almost next to each other). Also the 3rd stroke begins from the opposite direction on these characters and you can actually draw a little notch at the starting point of the final stroke as shown in the related pics.

>accusative case as I learn more Japanese
Actually, don't bother. The reason why I mentioned the accusative case was just to illustrate how hard it can be to "get" concepts that don't exist in your own native language. Also, I'm not even sure if there is an accusative case in Japanese.

>30 GB reserved for Linux
To clarify, that's like the minimal space requirement to have a functional system. Also, before installing Linux, you should disable fast boot in Windows 10. The fast boot is actually a hybrid between suspend to disk (hibernation) and regular shutdown, meaning when "fast boot" is enabled Windows doesn't actually fully shutdown. This can cause problems when you are trying to access your Windows 10 partition from Linux as Linux may not allow you to write to the Windows partition if it detects that Windows is using fast boot: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Dual_boot_with_Windows#Fast_Startup_and_hibernation
To fix this, you need to disable fast boot in Windows, which is easy as pie: https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/4189-turn-off-fast-startup-windows-10-a.html
Replies: >>4987 >>5003
>I am 100% sure
* I am not 100% sure, heh

> https://wiki.archlinux.org
ArchWiki is really helpful (and comprehensive) resource even though Xubuntu and other Ubuntu flavors and other Debian derivatives use a different package manager (Xubuntu/Debian uses apt instead of pacman). Package manger is the program that you use to install/search/remove/upgrade other programs (and other things such as themes). In practice this means that every time you see pacman you need to replace it with equivalent apt command. For example:
possible language: perl, relevance: 23
# this is a comment and this will be ignored
# the sudo command is used to run the pacman/apt command as root
# && can be used to run multiple commands one after the other: command1 && command2

# to fetch and install new upgrades:
# Arch Linux and Artix Linux
sudo pacman -Syu
# Xubuntu and Debian
sudo apt update # update the list of available packages
sudo apt upgrade && sudo apt dist-upgrade # install the upgrades

# to install a new package (program, theme, etc.):
sudo pacman -S package_name1 package_name2
sudo apt install package_name1 package_name2

# to search for packages (note, there is no need to have root access):
pacman -Ss search_keyword
apt search search_keyword

# to remove/uninstall package(s):
sudo pacman -R package_name1
sudo apt remove package_name1

# to remove/uninstall a package(s) along with its dependencies:
sudo pacman -Rs package_name1
sudo apt autoremove package_name1

# to look up information about a package:
pacman -Si package_name
apt show package_name
Xubuntu and other flavors of Ubuntu come with a GUI for the package manager. Also, in Xubuntu (and other Ubuntu/Debian derivatives), apt-get is usually used in scripts (.sh files) instead of apt.
Replies: >>5003 >>5038
More studies done today, more progress through fourth chapter. Seemed to have a lot of trouble retaining the information today too, I suppose I'll have to wait for the practice sections to cement it. Luckily, Genki is very good at cementing the information come practice time, at least that's what it did for the first three chapters.
I had no idea that there were tiny versions of the characters. I just assumed that some of them were written in a tiny fashion for some random idea. Also a good way to differentiate between "shi and "tsu" there in katakana, prior to this I'd been going off of which sides the marks seemed to be on more, with shi at the left and tsu at the right, but direction of the upper two strokes is far more reliable. 
ソ and ン (so and n) look like they follow a similar pattern, with so being more vertically drawn and n being more horizontally drawn, so it does seem like a good way to remember them.
>command line operations
That looks so much cleaner than the gobbledygook nowadays where everything must be a gui. I hope I'm smart enough to into Xubuntu when the time comes for it. Right now just the japanese is very mentally exhausting for some reason.
Replies: >>5004 >>5038
oh and also tomorrow is sunday, and I take sundays off from study so there won't be an update post of any sort until monday again. I hesitate to plan so far ahead, but if I'm able to pick Japanese up at least enough to read it in manga, then I'll start devoting that time to learning Xubuntu and other linux distros, which'll be a barrel of fun because I'm sure they're better than proprietary botnets.
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Happy new week lads. I decided to restart chapter 4, since it wasn't really making a lot of sense, and I think it was a good decision so far, since I found a little oddity I glazed over the first time, namely this pic. I can see restaraunt in there, I see Department store, I see hospital. I also see a stray "to" directly after depaato, which seems like it should be attached to a "tonari," which describes objects as being between something, but instead just goes "to" and then leads directly into hospital. After hospital, another "no" particle is thrown in after which comes, from what my little eyeballs see, an "aida." I haven't the foggiest clue what "aida" is, I assume it's the requisite "between" to describe the hospital as being between the department store and the restaurant. If so, then what purpose does that stray "to" that follows "depaato" serve? 
I am again glad to have just restarted the chapter though, I think things are sticking in memory a little better on the second go around.
Replies: >>5038
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> https://www.edrdg.org/cgi-bin/wwwjdic/wwwjdic?1MKU9593
> https://www.imabi.net/whileiaida.htm
「間」 indeed seems to mean "between" (or "space between" or "during time between" or "while").

> what purpose does that stray "to" that follows "depaato" serve?
「と」 means "and" (but there are some important usage rules) But I'm not going to tell you about those!!! because I forgot what those rules where exactly, heh
But note that 「や」 can also be used to list things (but again are some important usage rules)
> https://www.imabi.net/theparticleto.htm
> https://www.imabi.net/theparticleya.htm
> http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/grammar/nounparticles#The_Inclusive_particle
So, the logic of the sentence is more like "Regarding the restaurant, it's in (the space) between department store and hospital." or similar. I also want to point out that sentences that are similar to "subject wa description desu." are about describing something but you can't use it to tell about the existence of something (you would use iru/aru instead: https://www.imabi.net/aruiru.htm).
「の」 can also be used to add additional specifiers/qualifiers to words:
> https://www.imabi.net/theparticleno.htm

> That looks so much cleaner than the gobbledygook nowadays where everything must be a gui. 
It's also nice to be able to do most things a lot faster. For example to install all new upgrades: sudo apt update && sudo apt upgrade && sudo apt dist-upgrade
or to install multiple packages at once: sudo apt install hexchat torbrowser-launcher youtube-dl ffmpeg fonts-noto bleachbit

>I hope I'm smart enough to into Xubuntu when the time comes for it. 
Honestly it's not really about intelligence. imo, the biggest barrier for making the switch to Linux is either programs that are Windows-only (like most games), which isn't a problem if you dual-boot. The second barrier is that most don't simply start experimenting with a LiveUSB or a VM (or just dual-boot it). I was actually in 6th grade in primary school when I first installed Ubuntu, and back then I was bad at English. The reason why I installed Ubuntu was that I had accidentally downloaded a "virus.mp3.exe". Ultimately, I installed Windows back because of muh games. I started dual-booting Windows and Xubuntu in middle school (7th or 8th grade, I can't remember). I guess I should also mention that there is a program called Wine that can (possibly) allow one to run some Windows programs on Linux. Valve actually maintains a forked version of Wine called Proton: https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Proton But honestly, if you have a windows license, then why see additional trouble? Just dual-boot.

> Testing the distro in a Virtual Machine (VM)
This really good advice.

The point of VMs is that you can test stuff without risking nuking or otherwise breaking your system. You can test the Xubuntu installer in a VM. And you can even test dual-booting in a VM. You just need to have a Windows .iso (but you don't need a product key necessarily) or you can just download another distro (such as Debian). Basically, you need to first install Windows/Debian and make sure it boots. Once you have made sure it works, you need to use the Xubuntu LiveCD to resize the Windows/Debian partition and install Xubuntu to the newly reclaimed free space. After installing Xubuntu, you should now be able to pick Windows/Debian or Xubuntu when you reboot your VM. Links:
> Enable the Virtualization Extensions: https://bce.berkeley.edu/enabling-virtualization-in-your-pc-bios.html
> Virtual Box: https://www.virtualbox.org
> Debian .iso: https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/current-live/amd64/iso-hybrid/debian-live-10.9.0-amd64-xfce+nonfree.iso
> Xubuntu: https://xubuntu.org

It's worth keeping in mind that you can't test whether your hardware is supported by the distro if you run it in a VM (But you can and you should test it with the Xubuntu LiveUSB). Also, both Virtual Box and LiveUSBs have worse performance than booting the distro from your HDD. Before installing Virtual Box, you should make sure that Virtualization Extensions (which can also be called Intel VT-x or AMD-V) are enabled in the BIOS/UEFI settings. The Debian iso that I linked above comes with the XFCE desktop and the iso also includes the non-free firmware (drivers). 

You don't actually need to know how to use the command-line/terminal to be able to use or install Xubuntu. Neither you need to know (or learn) how to program (unless, you want to, ofc) In that case I recommend trying Ruby: https://www.ruby-lang.org/en/ and the Programming Ruby 1.9 & 2.0 (4th edition): The Pragmatic Programmers' Guide book by Dave Thomas. If you want to, you can start gradually learning how to use the terminal and/or how to program after installing Xubuntu, if you want. But like I said, you don't have to use the command-line or know how to program to use Xubuntu. 

Actually, the reason for mentioning the apt command is that if you know how to use it, it should be possible to follow the ArchWiki articles. For example: 
> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Ufw
If you wanted to install the Uncomplicated Firewall (ufw) on Xubuntu, you could open the terminal and type:
possible language: bash, relevance: 23
# First, let's refresh the list of available packages:
sudo apt update

# Let's check if the package exist with the same name?
apt search ufw

# Yup, that seems to be the case. Let's install it:
sudo apt install ufw

# ArchWiki tells you to enable ufw using its own command
sudo ufw enable
sudo ufw status # check that it is enabled

# Next the ArchWiki page tells you to enable the ufw service
sudo systemctl enable ufw  # enable it on boot
sudo systemctl start ufw   # start it now (without a reboot)

# Let's also add a default rule to block incoming connections from the Internet but allow all outbound connections by default:
sudo ufw default deny
If you ever add your own rules, sudo ufw status numbered shows a numbered list of rules and you can delete a rule by running sudo ufw remove 1 (to delete the rule numbered 1). Also, note that there is also the gufw GUI for the Uncomplicated Firewall.
Also, managing services (aka daemons) is pretty easy:
possible language: bash, relevance: 14
# Note: foo, bar, baz (and combinations) are often used as placeholder names.
# Let's enable foobar.service at boot:
sudo systemctl enable foobar

# start the foobar service now:
sudo systemctl start foobar

# stop the foobar service and disable so it won't be started during system boot:
sudo systemctl stop foobar
sudo systemctl disable foobar

# check if the foobar service is running at the moment:
sudo systemctl status foobar
There, now you know actually more than enough to install and use Xubuntu.

Finding packages
If you aren't sure what name the package has, you can usually just use the search:
apt search 'gtk theme'
apt search font
apt search 'irc client'Also, most distros also have a webpage that can be used to search packages: https://packages.ubuntu.com
And ArchWiki maintains a huge list of applications: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/List_of_applications
Replies: >>5040 >>5107
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Today's studies went very well. I just need to remember to go very carefully over each section. I also had to do the same for chapter 3, so perhaps I'll just have to go over each chapter twice to make sure I fully understand the material. 
Only curiosity was this "sokode" phrase. This serves the purpose in the sentence of explaining where mary waited for Takeshi, but I always assumed the term for "there" and "over there" was, depending on the object in question "ano", "are", and "asoko". I'm 99% sure that "de" is the particle used to point out where an event is taking place, which leave "soko" which means "over there near you." This is no longer a question, I'm keeping this up because I managed to parse a japanese phrase with my brain. Proof I'm learning at least something. 
Anyways, good studies.
>「と」 means "and" (but there are some important usage rules)
They actually showed up later in that same lesson. "to" can be used to link nouns together, as well as to describe "with whom" (specific wording) you do something. 
>In that case I recommend trying Ruby: https://www.ruby-lang.org/en/ and the Programming Ruby 1.9 & 2.0 (4th edition): The Pragmatic Programmers' Guide book by Dave Thomas.
Programming is a bucket list thing I have. I've tried to learn C++ in the past but that just never happened, although I bet if I scheduled for it every day like I do for the Japanese it would work out this time around, just through agonizing persistence (like for learning the japanese.)
The VM thing is also for sure what I'm going to do, that way I don't wreck my computer in a stupid way, and I do hear Wine mentioned a lot, which would be really great since being able to use linux to play games would be very nice. 
I think I'm going to archive this thread right now, just in case the worst happens and japan gets nuked/spammed to death/whatever else, since there's a ton of good knowledge ITT right now. Once thread hits bump limit I'll re-archive then too, but for now there's too much good stuff to see it wiped.
I would comment more about the Ubuntu material if I could, but I'm a complete novice at all of that, and so best I can do is archive the information so it's preserved on my HDD forever.
Replies: >>5107
>archived 15 hours ago
hivemind :^)
Today's studies concluded, after finishing the reading material for chapter 4 I decided to cut to the workbook since I have an answer key for it, and then afterwards I shall cut back to the practice section for chapter 4 which I do not possess an answer key for. As always, the practice questions do a good job of ironing out all the concepts presented in the text. It also took me four chapters to discover there was a word document with all of Genki 1's vocabulary recorded in it for easy searching. That's been very helpful in finding obscure terms like "ashita," which means tomorrow. Not really too much to say, learned a few more uses for the "mo" particle, to declare you have an object can be done with "arimasu," while ownership of something with sentience (example says child, I assume something like a hamster could also apply) is done with "imasu." Little more plodding along done, either way!
Today's studies concluded; one of the questions required knowing the meaning of クテス , as in 
I didn't have the foggiest notion of what a katakanic "kutesu" was supposed to mean, nor did I find any such definition in the vocabulary. I assumed the definition is "when do you study japanese?" (if that's now what katakanic kutseu means, then I suppose it turns to "when do you (interact in some fashion with) japanese?
Rest of the studying was simple enough, just pointing out where things are in relation to other things, pretty simple with that vocabulary word document on hand to word search through and it really, really pays to have your katakana and hiragana memorized to make that a half second process.
All in all, a good study session, and also reinforced the point that the "no" particle is used to attach attributes to individual objects while "wa" and "ga" define the subject of the sentence.
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Replies: >>5105 >>5107
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Terrible studying today. Was not able to find definitions for most of these terms in the genki vocab, and online searches netted nothing of particular value. 
While "kinou" stands for "yesterday" in number 2, I haven't the foggiest what "nichi" stands for (I'm pretty sure "jiyuugo" is 15.) At gunpoint I'd say the question is asking if the 15th of a certain month was yesterday or not. 
For number three, I also don't know what the devil "kiyou" stands for. I know "asagohan" is breakfast, and I know that long string of katakana for "hanbaagaa" is hamburger, while "deshita" is the past tense of "desu," ergo the sentence is probably asking "did you eat a hamburger (sometime in the past), with the "sometime in the past being "kiyou." 
For 4. there were a ton of references to child from the genki vocab itself, "kodomo" being child, "iikodomo" being, I think, "good child." "toki" should mean "when." Perhaps the question is asking "when you had your kid, and then adding fluff on afterwards saying it's a good kid?" 
Number 5 starts with a reference to high school "koukou" with a "when" attribute slapped onto it via the "no." Afterwards, "iigakuseideshitaka" is mentioned, maybe the question is asking a current high school student when they plan on entering a good college, but that sounds weird because this statement also ends with a "deshita" meaning this all took place in a past tense. 
Next section looks like it'll be far simpler at least, since that's translating sentences from english into japanese, instead of answering japanese questions with more japanese.
Replies: >>5107
I still don't know what that would refer too. "kootesoo" gets me nothing. "kutesu" similarly. "kutesoo", "kootesuh," etc. Nothing my brain can poop out nets anything in the context of a sentence inquiring about some actions taken with regards to the japanese language.
Replies: >>5107
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Found another Japanese dictionary: https://jisho.org
in other news, I made the mistake of clicking on https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtTYQuO1j6w  again, and now I can't get "dokidoki wakuwaku" out of my head

The point for mentioning services (daemons) and systemctl is to provide the last piece of information that's needed to follow instructions from ArchWiki. (I used the ufw article as an example.) Services (aka daemons) are just programs that run in the background to provide a some kind of service. Daemons/Services include ufw, tor, sshd, web servers, etc. SSH is used for secure remote connection. ArchWiki is usually more useful than reading the manual (man-pages). If you want to learn more about the Linux command-line (aka terminal), you can read the The Linux Command Line book by William Shotts: https://linuxcommand.org/tlcl.php (very beginner friendly)
or you can watch some YT videos, for example:
> https://www.youtube.com/c/KrisOcchipinti/videos
> https://www.youtube.com/c/LukeSmithxyz/videos (note: https://lukesmith.xyz/articles/deletion)
> https://www.youtube.com/c/DistroTube/videos
> https://www.youtube.com/c/Bisqwit/videos (mostly programming focused)
> https://www.youtube.com/c/javidx9/videos (100% programming focused)

But I guess I could also write more about the man-pages, too (but you can ignore the following if you want tbh):
possible language: perl, relevance: 28
# search manual pages:
man -k search_keyword_goes_here

# read a man-page:
man page_name
man man # manual page for manual

# Sometimes there are multiple pages with the same name.
# In these cases, you must also specify the section as well:
man man-pages
man 1 intro
man 3 printf
man 7 hier

# when referring to man-page you should write it like this: name(section_number). For example: '''intro(1)'''

# Also, sometimes square brackets are used to mark the optional parts of the command:
# Let's read the man-page for ufw.
man ufw
     ufw [--dry-run] delete NUM

# you would actually run the following command:
ufw --dry-run delete 1
# or
ufw delete 1

Unfortunately, man-pages aren't always as useful as you might hope, which is why you should try to look up the command/program on ArchWiki or search the Internet. If you want to know how to navigate the man-pages, you should read less(1): https://manpages.debian.org/buster/less/less.1.en.html (you don't need to remember anything else than that / can be used to search text from the man-page and q can be used to quit. Use ENTER or SPACE to scroll the page forward.) 
(Note: CTRL-key is usually referred to using a C or ^ and the ALT-key is often called the Meta-key and the Windows-key is called the "Super key" on Unix-like operating systems, such as Linux.)
(Also, note: CTRL+C is particularly useful keybinding to know because it can be used to interrupt ("kill") the running command-line program)
To learn more about the manual itself, read https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Man

>Programming is a bucket list thing I have. I've tried to learn C++ in the past
The reason why I recommended Ruby is because it's easy and it's good for automating stuff and creating tools. Ruby also has a good support for object-oriented programming (OOP) but it's important that OOP is just one way to program (which paradigm is the best depends on the problem you are trying to solve). As a beginner, you don't have to worry too much about the different programming paradigms. The language you should learn first depends on what you are interested in and what you actually want to learn.

If you are a beginner and you want to learn C++, I would read Programming: Principles and Practice Using C++ 2nd edition by Bjarne Stroustrup. (those who can already program, should read C++ Primer 5th edition (or newer) by Stanley B. Lippman et. al. instead) Use https://en.cppreference.com as reference. Use the G++ compiler (https://gcc.gnu.org/) or the Clang++ compiler (https://clang.llvm.org). Eventually you should also read a bit about undefined behavior in C: https://blog.llvm.org/2011/05/what-every-c-programmer-should-know.html and about sanitizers (like AddressSanitizer). Also, read The C Programming Language 2nd edition (aka K&R) by Brian Kernighan and Dennis Ritchie at some point too. C and C++ can be slightly harder to get into than Ruby or Lua or webdev.

If you want to program (2D) games, I would learn Lua and some LÖVE (aka Love 2d):
> https://www.lua.org/pil/contents.html
> https://love2d.org

If you want to do webshit, you should read Learning PHP, MySQL & JavaScript, 5th Edition (or newer) by Robin Nixon. It contains a bit of everything. You should also take a look at MDN website: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/ and the W3Fools website: https://www.w3schools.com (Note: the site has nothing to do with W3C aka World Wide Web Consortium). The w3schools website is good for basic stuff but you should use other resources for anything that goes beyond bare basics. For webdev, you should learn HTML+CSS, (((JavaScript))) (and JSON and jQuery and AJAX and NodeJS), SQL relational databases (and MariaDB and PostgreSQL) and Linux. Ruby on Rails (a web framework for Ruby) and PHP can be useful to know as well.

When you start programming, it's good idea to learn to use a good text editor. Examples of good text editors:
> Gnu nano (for beginners. press F1 for help): https://www.nano-editor.org
> Neovim (has built-in tutorial. open nvim and type :Tutor): https://neovim.io
> Gnu Emacs (has built-in tutorial. open emacs and type CTRL+h t): https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/
> VSCodium (spyware-free version of VS Code): https://vscodium.com

> クラス
Oh, I get it now:
> Kurasu > (klas) ==> class

>(2) nichi
日 = Day. Think "Nichijou" (everyday). It can be used also to count days: 「1日」=  first day, one day
for example, you can say 「2021年4月17日」. And I think you can also say 「Anonの一日」 which would mean "Anon's day" (not a birthday but like a title for a blogpost or a story).

>(3) kiyou
If you look closely, the yo (after) ki is actually a small 「ょ」, meaning it's actually "kyoo" = today = 「今日」

>(4) 子供の時 ...
I have no idea what sentence means

>(5) 高校の時 ...
I think I get it now. I think it basically means, "When you were in (during your time in) high school, were you a good student?" And, if I'm correct, the 4th sentence follows the same logic, I think.
Replies: >>5151
Today's studies done. As usual, I don't study on sundays so there shan't be a status report tomorrow! Studies went well, today was writing out verbs from the previous chapter to match a past tense, and then directly using those verbs to describe the actions of people through the past week. Pretty smooth. 
I thought the "ra" was a "te." No wonder it came out as gibberish, how very silly. 
>a small [yo], meaning it's "kyoo" which is "today." 
Very good to know. I really should learn about these small versions of characters, so far the only one I know about is a small, I think tsu, which means the word in question is pronounced very quickly or something.
>4 and 5
I'm sure you're right, both of those sentences end with the standard "ka" for question asking in terms of yes/no after all, so those are the only interpretations that could really hold water. 
That's also interesting to learn what daemons actually are. Never knew until now, assumed they were just something to do with e-mail services. 
I've heard about that PPP book by Stroustrup, and I actually think I have the PDF on my machine somewhere. Once I finish off my current projects I'm sure I can start scheduling some time each day to learning that too, and really make good progress that doesn't die the first time I hit a roadblock due to said scheduling. 
2D games could be very fun, so thank you for those suggestions, and they're probably a really good way to start too.
Web stuff I wouldn't necessarily be as interested in, but I'm sure that would also be good to learn and at least have a grasp of. 
Thanks again for the help of all this stuff, I can't imagine how long it would have taken to realize that the katakana"te" was a "ra" all along. I'll re-archive here too as well, to save the valuable information.
Happy monday! Very little progress today, really just couldn't get into it. Woke up in a weird mood, with the distinct feeling of standing before a bottomless cliff. Quite spooky, and haven't shaken the feeling. The "mo" particle, while not necessarily hard to understand, feels pointless since all it does is point out a similarity, but if you kept it out and used the standard particle the sentences would still say the same thing. Basically the difference between "I went to school, you went to school too." and "I went to school, you went to school." But, important to learn since it's part of the language, I'll just have to remember it only actually replaces "wa", "ga", and "wo", while the rest it simply sits beside.
Today's concluded, one last section in the workbook. Went pretty smoothly, and one last section to go! Handily, "mo" seems to always be used on the specific circumstance that was different between two sentences that describe deep similarity, so that's reasonably easy to remember. I'm still not 100% sure about the actually difference between "wa" the particle and "ga" the particle, but it also seems like "ga" doesn't show up very often so it must be quite niche.
Finished chapter 4, and now on to chapter 5! The last section, which was listening, wasn't too difficult, it seemed like. I had to repeat the phrases a few times to catch each individual sound and piece together the answers, but eventually they did piece together. Next chapter starts on adjectives, and speaks of "い" and ”な” ending adjectives, as well as how to conjugate them to match past and present affirmative and negative conjugations. I may need to begin memorizing this material, but for now it's all written out. More tomorrow!
Chapter 5 read through. Really fast read, and the only especially confusing section is likely the first that goes over conjugations for adjectives, so tomorrow I'll be starting on the practice session of the workbook since that comes with an answer key, and I'm pretty sure I don't have an answer key for the regular book. For chapter five itself, it primarily went over, like I said, conjugation of certain adjectives, the "like/dislike" descriptors, and some counting of flat objects like stamps and paper using the "mai" counter, which tends to come after the count itself. I took a lot less notes this time around in favor of speedier reading to determine at exercise time which parts I'll actually need to reinforce, so I'll have to see how tomorrow goes!
busy day, so studying was not efficient. Did polish off one section of the workbook, but it was no feat to speak of since it was just asking for adjectives, their meanings, and present negative conjugations. If I understand the material correctly, for an "i" adjective you chop the ending "i" off and replace it with "kuamasen" to make it a negative present term, whereas for a "na" adjective you keep the all of the adjective, and then slap "yaarimasen" onto the end of it. Pretty complex either way I think, but step by step.
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Today was largely spent filling out conjugation charts for the homework, along with translating some sentences beforehand for adjectives large, expensive, frightening, interesting, old, and good, a collection of "i" adjectives with one irregular "good" adjective. Tomorrow will be the "na" adjective charts.
I think the workbook answers I have are connected to a different genki, because the conjugations in the workbook answers for certain adjectives are different from the ones in the Genki manual. Here is one such example.
By the book, the actual interpretation of a sentence like this should go as follows:
File attached for from the current Genki manual I have to show the conjugations for "good." I will have to find out what actual version of the Genki workbook I have to find a matching answer key. 
As usual, tomorrow is Sunday and I do not study on sundays, so I shall post another status update on monday!
Today's studied concluded, and happy monday. More conjugation charts filled out for adjectives. That's really all there is to report for today, tomorrow next section starts asking questions in japanese, so I'll see if there's any I'm unable to translate. They look reasonably simple so far.
I ended up skimming over the rest of the practice work for chapter 5, since the answer key that I have on hand is incorrect in its conjugations, at least from what the Genki 1 manual teaches, and so having no real way to check over my work (and being unsuccesful in locating workbook solutions that actually match the workbook I have on hand, the differing questions at times points to the notion that the workbook key and actual workbook are mismatched in printings.) tipped the decision into heading into chapter 6 to start learning there. Luckily, the goal was only ever to be able to read Japanese, not ever to actually write it proficiently or speak it, so in terms of the reading of it I'm doing well, albeit I do have to keep consulting the vocabulary for those words I don't yet know off the top of my head.
In chapter 6, Genki starts to teach about the "te" ending, which is very important to Japanese and fulfills many roles, including making requests, giving/asking for permission, stating that something is forbidden, as well as forming a sentence that describes two events or activities. 
Conjugation, apparently, is extremely varied, except for ru-verbs in which you just lop off "ru" and add "te." For u-verbs, it's extremely varied and I look forward to learning about that more tomorrow!
Finished up reading through chapter 6, which also seemed somewhat short, and am now working on the practice session. Currently, I'm just converting certain verbs into a -te form, of the which "ru" verbs all follow on pattern, while "u" verbs have many different forms for it. Luckily for me, the audio attached to the practice session carries the answers with it so I am able to check my work. More tomorrow!
For today's study, I worked on some more of the practice sections for Chapter 6, primarily finishing conversion of a number of verbs into their -te forms. The following section then deals with making requests to individuals to perform a certain action, which so far seems to consist of ensuring the verb is correctly converted into its "te" form, slapping any relevant adverbs into the phrase, and then throwing on a "kudasai" on the end to describe the sentence as being a "polite request." I suppose the "kudasai" essentially does what our "please" in english does. That's it for now, more tomorrow!
barely any study done today. hopefully tomorrow will be less distracting.
Today was much less distracting, and I was able to translate several more phrases into japanese for the practice sections. These take more time than others, since u-verbs, when translated into their te-forms, have many variations. Makes it a tad tricky, really, because then I have to look up each individual translation to ensure it was the correct te-form for that particular u-verb. But, more progress made, and if I can remember to slap "kudasai" onto the end of each request now that'll be nice.
happy monday. More workings through the practice sections done today, this time using verbs to ask for permission to do an activity. Fairly simple, you turn the verb into its -te form, and then you slap "moiidesuka" on the end. (if giving permission to do an activity, I believe it's just "moiidesu.")  Not incredibly complex, but the standard nuisance applies wherein you have to check each verb to see how it will convert into its "te" form, since only "iru" and "eru" CAN be a ru verb, usually, but could also be a u verb, while "aru, oru, and uru" are all u-verbs, and u-verbs have many different te-forms even though ru-verbs is straightforward, just lopping off the end "ru" and throwing "te" on there in its stead. More tomorrow.
I need to reignite my drive to learn japanese. Lately my focus has been diminishing a lot, and so for today I only did a few questions in the practice session, which while better than nothing isn't close to the block of time I normally schedule for it. What did you do to reignite your drive for learning japanese if it went out? assuming anyone still reads this blogposting lmao
The solution might be just knuckling down and grinding through it. Anyways, finished the section on asking for permission to do an activity. Tomorrow I take the inverse role, and deny someone the permission to do an activity as a "stern parent," so more tomorrow.
Replies: >>5432 >>5439
Today's studies were a bit better, managed to polish off a full section this time before I lost interest and at least a look at the next section, which consists of translating pictures of actions into te forms of verbs, rather than requesting/denying permission for things like the last sections were. more tomorrow, as usual
Polished off the rest of chapter six, and by that I mean I skipped the rest of it and moved on to chapter 7 because at this point I'm ready to just start burrowing into raw manga soon with a jap to english dictionary to translate one frame at a time. That said, I didn't hit chapter 7 until the last few minutes of my normally allotted study time, so I'm not sure what it talks about yet, although I think it's going to focus quite a bit on adjectives, since those were brought up quite a bit in the opening dialogue of the chapter.
Very little time for studying today, and so hardly any progress done. So little in fact that it's not really even worth bumping, but my embarrassment shall be displayed, but chapter 7 is going to be very intriguing because I know I saw an "iru" used in MGQ paradox on one of the untranslated lines, and "iru" is a kind of "helping verb" that describes an action in progress, OR a past event that is connected with the present. Will be very exciting to learn this some more tomorrow, but for today (and tomorrow) just busy days lined up.
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>What did you do to reignite your drive for learning japanese if it went out?
It's a common thought when you first start reading to double-check you understood by comparing with translations. Instead what you probably get from it is a motivation boost when you realize just how frequent and bad translation errors and stuff can be. To demonstrate here's a page from a random manga I read and liked, the first one I picked, with a quick translation of the right half of the page for comparison. There are people out there translating stuff that know less Japanese than you currently do believe it or not. If Japanese media is a passion and primary motivator you won't regret learning.

>So in order to commute to the nearby art prep-school every Sunday morning...
>Yeah! From my house I wouldn't make it in time for class.
>Here, if you'd like accept this
>Quite the cabbage, right
>Woah it's big...!
>I swiped a few of them from home!
>You brought all those bags by yourself...?
>I've got confidence in my strength!
Replies: >>5434 >>5564
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>There are people out there translating stuff that know less Japanese than you currently do believe it or not.
Huh. Hard to imagine, but I suppose if there are no controls that would happen a lot, plus I did lurk v at one point long enough to see that some localizers censor a lot of it for whatever reason. I really look forward to being able to read manga on the left like that raw, because I'm sure important things are probably lost in translation. Learning the kanji is a looming obstacle though, since Genki hasn't really mandated I learn it where they throw the hiragana characters below each kanji character, although they may eventually do so since they did stop throwing romaji below the hiragana/katakana eventually. 
But yeah, that is a good reminder that if I ever want to read the Japanese as it was intended to be conveyed then learning Japanese myself is the only reliable way.
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For today's study, I read through a few more sections of chapter 7. I'm sure I'm going to have to read much more though to really start to understand the material, and curiously one of the pages was scanned upside down for the lesson so that'll take some extra time to interpret. Not much to report otherwise, it seems like these "te" verbs do all kinds of things when combined with adjectives too. I'm good and confused right now, so hopefully the practice session will help to cement the core concepts of the lesson; they're usually pretty good at that. More monday, no studying on sundays as usual!
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>What did you do to reignite your drive for learning japanese if it went out?
heh, nothing. except reading this thread, I guess. Actually, I haven't even restarted studying Japanese or started learning Latin. I have been reading some (unrelated) books. I have been thinking about trying (?) self-hypnosis >>>/japan/5331 (I guess self-hypnosis could be used to increase your focus on your studies, too?) If you feel like reaching a burnout, you could break from your studies on Saturndays as well (perhaps you could allocate Saturday for learning programming or linux stuff?)
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There are some things you can mostly handle without kanji, like there's some manga which use those kana pronunciation guides (furigana) to help younger readers, but absolutely the sooner you start chipping away at it the better. Forgot to include it in my last post but don't hesitate to give some other resources a quick try because that can affect your drive as well. I couldn't make it very far in Genki but found others like Tae Kim a lot more to my liking. Plus sometimes getting multiple takes on the same concept will help you understand better. 
Also realized that in leaving out context I potentially made the bad translation not seem as bad as it is. Dark hair is going to be staying at light hair girl's house on Saturdays starting that day in order to commute, established in the couple pages beforehand. Quite different from what they have there.
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That's probably a good idea, just leaving monday-friday for studies may help a bit, particularly because I'm out of the house for ~10 hours on Saturdays now, which makes things very crunch-timey. Thanks for all the advice so far too, it's been very helpful!
On the assumption that you know a reasonably good portion of kanji yourself now, at least since you're translating that manga well (I assume, heh) what resource was your go-to for learning Kanji? Was it kae-tim, as you've mentioned in your post?
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tae kim :^) .
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I tried reading yotsuba a while ago, but got frustrated because I was unable to parse basic sentence structures. After spending a bit of time taking notes on verb conjugations and particles, I'm doing a lot better. I've made it to chapter 5 and my process has been to read a few panels, check the translation, and then re-read anything I don't know or got wrong. It feels much smoother now. In my head I'm able to imagine the characters voices and how they might stress different parts of a sentence, and interject with things like  え or あのさ, そう, and so on. Attentive animu listening and grammar study has allowed me to not get hung up on some of these things like I did before.

Page related is a decent example. To a degree, I could understand all the panels even without the translation. Of course there were a few verbs I didn't know watasu, wasureru, oku but the rest of the page reads like the most basic anime dialogue I've ever heard. Other pages have a decent mix of more challenging content, but this is kind of nice for practice. Feels like ironing out wrinkles in my reading skills.

Speaking of verbs I still haven't gone through my frequency dictionary and compiled my verb list. I will probably do that after I finish this first volume.

This site is quite nice:
Text is easy to copy-paste and you can toggle language with the enter key.
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>>2635 (OP) 
>holy crap there's like 80 of them, you could learn polish here and confuse the heck out of the poles on tg
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>>holy crap there's like 80 of them, you could learn polish here and confuse the heck out of the poles on tg
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>>>holy crap there's like 80 of them, you could learn polish here and confuse the heck out of the poles on tg
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>>>>holy crap there's like 80 of them, you could learn polish here and confuse the heck out of the poles on tg
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>>>>>holy crap there's like 80 of them, you could learn polish here and confuse the heck out of the poles on tg
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Done! Man, 230 pages went by faster than I thought. Well it's not an actual novel so I shouldn't be surprised. Guess I'll start studying verbs and move on to volume two in the meantime.

>There are people out there translating stuff that know less Japanese than you
I think also that some of them know less English, though the difference can be subtle.

Reminds me, one of the main reasons I'm learning japanese is so I can understand song lyrics. Lyric translations are inherently trash because most fags either throw out the meter or throw out the meaning and as a music fag this bothers me greatly. 

Recently I've been looking at God Knows from Haruhi. If you search for English covers they are all highly interpreted and a lot of them really fuck with the emphasis and positioning of words in the song. Of course I'm pretty shit too but I'm enjoying it as a lateral thinking puzzle. Occasionally I learn a thing or too about grammar so that can't be bad.

This is one of the more literal translations I've found, though it's pretty questionable in some places.

Consider this verse:

dakara watashi tsuiteiku yo
donna tsurai sekai no yami no naka de sae
kitto anata wa kagayaite
koeru mirai no hate
yowasa yue ni tamashii kowasarenu you ni
my way kasanaru yo
ima futari ni God bless...

I'm trying to figure out what 'koeru mirai no hate' connects with. The translator appears to think that kagayaite is conjunctive (shine, and then) but I have an unsupported suspicion that this is some informal imperative (yamate!) Well, I do have one reason, which is that koeru mirai no hate is a sentence fragment if I'm interpreting it correctly. If the translator was correct, wouldn't it be "mirai no hate wo koeru?" As for the next line, that's a real clusterfuck and I just studied "yue ni" and "you ni" last night to try and figure it out. It definitely seems like one of us is wrong probably both if I'm honest 

The other thing I really am not getting is how to figure out the context with implicit subjects and possessives.

awai yume no utsukushisa wo egakinagara
kizuato nazoru

The translator basically takes all of these and makes them belong to "we." second person plural Our dreams, our scars, we draw, we trace, etc. I kind of understand that we had "anata ga" and "watashi ga" at the beginning of the verse. But those were independent sentences. lets ignore that "hoka no hito wa" effectively makes "other people" the topic because holy fuck As far as I can tell, first person makes a bit more sense here. The verse would be the speaker's fantasy, imagining reuniting with their lost love, but ultimately just opening old wounds. If they are both imagining it at the same time it doesn't make much sense does it? Unless they are being separated against their will. However, the rest of the lyrics suggest that the other person has moved on or is distancing themselves in some way, so I can't help but feel the translator threw in whatever they wanted to make the sentences work.

Then again, how would I know? I guess everything could be passive too. "This fleeting dream, it's beauty is being drawn by tracing scars." 
Huh, at first I thought that would that would sound unnatural but that's not bad. Still, WAKARIMASEN.
Replies: >>5565
oh fug oh no I meant first person plural
Tae Kim is all grammar focused. If you do check it out, go with his grammar guide over the complete guide. It's supposed to be better for reasons I forget. I started learning kanji using kanjidamage as a reference, mostly just making use of the radical-based ordering the site provides the characters and making my own Anki cards. Never used any of the guys mnemonics or such. At some point I started to look characters up in a dictionary because the guy's keywords for characters can be shit so I came up with them myself. Kanjidamage does a couple things well and it worked fine for me, but definitely has faults and errors and there's undoubtedly better out there. Maybe learned close to 1k characters referencing it. Around that point I started properly trying to read and would just look up and learn characters I didn't know as I did. The number one thing I recommend when you're learning kanji is learning words that contain them as you do.

Progress can feel pretty quick when you first start reading for sure. In no time a chapter a day will be no sweat and soon enough a volume. I'm not big on using translations as an aid as you might imagine. They can be a fair help if they're accurate, but can cause misconceptions if you fail to recognize when they aren't.
Trying to translate or sometimes even understand stuff like song lyrics can be difficult. There's a fair chance the anime has some relevance with the meaning too as anime songs often do and I never watched Haruhi. Rather than me try to interpret and probably make a mistake, you could google for 'god knows 歌詞 意味' to see what some Japanese think, though that might be a bit of work itself. I previewed some and they had their own somewhat differing interpretations that do seem to refer to occurrences in the anime.
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>interpretations that do seem to refer to occurrences in the anime.

I've seen Haruhi so yeah I thought a bit about this. I detected a bit of cunty-ness in the lyrics that at first didn't make sense for what seemed like a sad love song. Then I realized it's probably written from Haruhi's perspective and suddenly it made sense. Thanks for the search suggestion too, though, since my reading level is "yotsuba with training wheels" tier I feel like I probably won't gain much there. Worth a shot though.

I'm trying to be careful with the translation, I think of it more like an aid. Pic related was a weird one where the translation is "she doesn't know how to talk to adults" but it looks like the literal text is an expression of some sort like, "she listens with her mouth" I don't put much weight on the translation in cases like this and try to just understand the context and look up the words. I'm still at a level where it's probably better to ignore this than dwell on it.
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>歌詞 意味
Also if you've spent as much time as I have reading lyric analysis websites you'd know that the opinion of the average music blogger is completely worthless. Of course, japs may be less retarded, I can only hope.
>but it looks like the literal text is an expression of some sort like, "she listens with her mouth"
That's what it looks like to me too, with the "kiki" in the verb. Must mean "shiran" is mouth. That's a really good reason to continue learning japanese, that way you get what the nip was actually trying to convey, rather than some dumbed down "counts as" bollocks.
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oh. maybe "koitsukuchi" is mouth, since it's attached to the verb with the "no." Still learning the stuff, although I should probably know this by now.
Partly right, but mouth is:  口 (くち, コウ, ク)

Pretty sure shiran is an informal shiranai. So that's the "doesn't know" part. I don't know jej how that fits in with the rest of the rest of the sentence, but maybe it's a double negative thing. "She doesn't know how not to listen with her mouth?"

I actually see where the translator got the "adult" part, from 方 
Only thing is my dictionary says has kikikata as 聞き方 (ききかた): way of listening, listener. 
I assume that's the correct reading, cause it makes more sense.

koitsu is kinda like "this dude." Jumbo has a particular way of talking. Not sure if it's inherently masculine, but he's the type that would address yotsuba as dude.
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I also jejjed when I saw that kuchi is a synonym for orifice
口を利く is an idiomatic phrase that can simply mean to speak. 利く is general can mean to effectively use something like your mouth, nose (sense of smell), or various faculties. 口の利き方 an offshoot meaning 'way someone speaks'. She doesn't know the to speak/ask something. Either being rude or not being very articulate or something.
I went ahead and started on tae kim's grammar guide today, since I encountered an upside down page in genki that is probably important. So far it's all still review, minus one important point about the little "tsu" that I'm sure I missed in genki, if they taught that point yet, the point being that the little tsu will copy the following consonant and replace the "ts" part with it. Explain a lot about why they're pronounced the way they are, before it always sounded like it was just some kind of weird emphasizing the following sound while skipping tsu entirely, which I suppose it sort of is. More tomorrow.
More studying done today, working through the tae kim grammar guide. My hiragana is pretty solid, but my katakana has gotten rusty and so I'm reviewing that now. Checking out kanjidamage to start learning kanji now too, that should come in handy. more tomorrow!
Replies: >>5612
It would seem that somebody took it upon themselves to create a modified Anki deck version of Kanjidamage, changing the mnemonics, fixing some errors and adding some characters. Does appear they ceased to include vocabulary examples with the characters which is unfortunate. Could be worth looking into though, here's a link. There's also a couple other resources you could look into if you like, maybe one or another will appeal to you more, doesn't hurt to compare a little. Regardless, this site is easily the most comprehensive compilation of everything a Japanese learner could want, just in case you weren't aware of it's existence. 
Replies: >>5613
neat, thanks very much!
When I reached the "kanji" section in the kae tim guide, I went ahead and detoured over to kanjidamage and started learning how to use the site there. Sounds like it'll be very useful. I'll probably split my study time half and half, a portion f or kanji and the other for continuing to learn the grammar. Hopefully that will be a holistic enough approach that I'll be able to learn japanese well.
Never really did hit that grammar today, just studied more kanji. Bit tough to divide attention between the two, but right now I think I care more about the kanji since I've already been learning grammar for a while, but am still very unfamiliar with the kanji.
moar kanji studies today, and to close out the week. As usual, no studies on saturdays or sundays since I'm quite busy on both days. Have a fun weekend!
studied more kanji. I should get back into the grammar soon, but I guess I don't wanna yet.
more kanji study today. I really like that kanjidamage site that anon itt mentioned. Guy who made it orders the kanji is a very pleasing way wherein they build on each other, step by step, like "ice" becoming "forever" with the simple addition of another dot. Very good way to teach it for a dummy like me. All for today though, more tomorrow.
more kanji once again, not really anything new to report.
yet moar kanji. I think I'll start saging until I actually have something of some kind of viable interest to say, so as to not make people click on the thread for one sentence of faggotry.
more kanji, same sage for nothing more to really tell.
more kanji, started on tae kim's grammar guide a bit, and learned about declarations of a "state of being," which is generally just implied and so sometimes unnecessary. Know it now, nonetheless. Also finally figured out the the onyomi text on kanjidamage (and kanji in general of course) represents the original chinese spelling of kanji, which translates to the hiragana spelling of said kanji. I don't really get it, but that's how it goes. I'm not sure what that makes the kunyomi into, since that's supposed to be the specific "japanese" spelling of kanji, as I understand it. Since I'm starting to learn some grammar again, I shall finally start bumping the thread with something to speak about.
just more kanji today
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more kanji.
Just more kanji, really busy day today so forgot to post sooner.
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kanji. I'm going to post 2hoos now so that viewers have something to look at other than just "kanji."
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just some more kanji, and a bit of grammar. I really really hope I regain interest in this eventually, right now I'm just autopiloting what little I can tolerate. Might just restart genki and see how much I managed to retain, learning this kanji isn't helping very much.
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moar kanji
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Restarted genki, readding though the introduction today there are  "practicable kanji" sections, allegedly. I'll have to find that. Now going through first chapter again, but I may just skip the exercises this time around, since my goal really is only to be able to read the language. I may continue saging though until I return to the "te" chapter, or until I find these mystical kanji practice sections, because I definitely didn't find them my first read through.
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Read the table of contents and the introduction
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Did have a read through those today, kanji practice is surprisingly far into the manual, about 260 pages or so. I was rather surprised. Outside of that, today I learned about short forms and long forms, short for deeply informal stuff, like family/close friends/seniors to juniors, verses long form for everything else. I'll have to scrutinize it some more tomorrow to see if I can pick up specific conjugation patterns between the two, but context may render that somewhat unnecessary.
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The reading/writing section is physically after the grammar/conversation section, but you aren't expected to wait until the end and then do all of writing exercises in a row. Do the grammar and writing lessons with the same number in pairs.
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I'll have to start doing that to start learning the kanji then. I have heard (haven't researched it myself) that there are 1000 "common" kanji. That's a crap-ton, but I think they can be analyzed via their parts, at least that the gist I caught from the time I spent on kanji damage. 
Did hardly any study today, my fridays are fairly busy. Customary 2hoo though, like I said I'd do in a past post so  you have something fun to look at.
Replies: >>6030
There's around 1000 "kyouiku" kanji that they learn throughout elementary school which will be a lot of your basic, most common stuff. More than enough to enjoy reading various things. The "regular use" list incorporates those and more, coming up to around 2100. That will cover you pretty well for most things and a lot of stuff will give you furigana when they use any words with non-jouyou kanji. You'll want to learn most of them eventually but not all the jouyou characters are especially common. Some probably more or less make the list just for kids learning certain topics in high-school and there's some non-jouyou characters you'll see more often. I've been reading Japanese for a few years and I still don't quite know all the jouyou kanji because some have just never come up when I was reading.
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I uhhhhh learned how to rotate pdf pages, so I went back one chapter before where I left off in Genki. I had previously left it because one of the pages had been scanned in upside down. Probably should have just done that from the start instead of piddling around for like, two weeks. For today's studies, went back over the last chapter I had completed, the -te chapter that teaches about using it to make requests, forbid things, grant permission and describe two events/activities. Back on track though, in a sense, so that's nice.
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Concluded the te chapter, now to the chapter where I gave up last time due to an upside down pdf page (I can't believe it took me like, two weeks to learn you can rotate pdf pages from the reader.) Basically this was just review.
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Next chapter is on short forms of verbs, adjectives, and nouns, as can be used by seniors to their juniors and within close friend/family circles. This consists of swapping out "desu" for "da" on na-adjectives/nouns ending with "desu," and with nothing for "i" adjectives. For present tense negative, you kick away "arimasen" and replace it with "nai." "ii" is irregular, and so its negative short form is "yokunai," which is not short at all. For ru-verbs, "ru" goes away and is replaced with "nai." U-verbs, "u" goes away and is replaced with "anai." In the irregular category, "suru" and "kuru" are replaced with "shinai" and "konai," respectively. 
Within the context of "close friends, family, and seniors to juniors if they so choose" short forms can be used for at least these four contexts, namely quoted speech "I think..." and "he said...", negative requests like "please don't..." and expressing idea such as "I like doing..." or "I am good at doing..." 
Further, question sentences denote a question with a rising intonation rather than "ka," while the "da" ending of na-adjectives and noun+desu constructions tend to get dropped entirely. 
Negative short form can be ended with "dekudasai." 
To describe a preference for certain items, as well as a preference for certain activities, "gasukidesu" and "kiraidesu" can be used, while adding a "no" to the verbal short form to express the idea of doing said activity. 
To be good at doing something/bad at doing something can be denoted with "gajiyouzudesu" and "gahetadesu", respectively.
With that, I begin from section 5 of this chapter tomorrow. I wrote this down here because this chapter has a crap ton of contexts for "short" forms, so this will take some digging through.
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too busy for study this morning, so nothing to say.
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also busy today
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Also too busy today. I recently started gambling wildly foolishly speculating trading in stocks recently, and so mondays, thursdays (sometimes), and fridays tend to be my very busy weekdays. So far it's going well, but all it takes is one crash to wipe you out so here I go.
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I have decided to suspend my japanese learning for a time, due to a combination of burnout, growing disinterest, and lack of intelligence. Hopefully the spark will reignite soon, at which point I'll resume my standard learning methods as I do think it worked rather well. Certainly took me farther than I'd ever expected to go.

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