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READ THE RULES


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There's a prevailing sentiment online that waypoints, compasses, other directional HUD elements, and signposting are as necessary for a general audience as they are obnoxious for a niche one. The main blame is the average person's intelligence, but there's also people citing engagement metrics and even graphical fidelity as being problems, but what about the developers themselves? So many games nowadays have highly contextual animations and low levels of interactivity that it might not even occur to players that they can even experiment. Does the simple act of adding details and interactions, even if they are considered superfluous and have no effect on how the game is played, spur enough creative thought to get most people past the need for yellow paint? By being so accessible, are developers literally making players stupider?
>>317764 (OP) 
>is it this extreme
>or that extreme
Only math questions are black or white, almost everything regarding the human condition is many complex and multifaceted shades of grey. In this case the answer lies in the middle: people operating under the assumption what you can do in a simulation is more limited than they think; misunderstanding or not understanding design language because of a lack of experience with the media, or actual limited cognitive abilities which result in low desire to explore and experiment. Developers dumbing down games is just shareholders telling them to do so to reach bigger audience that wouldn't normally consume said media and make number go up.
Replies: >>317771 >>317784
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>>317764 (OP) 
>almost everything regarding the human condition is many complex and multifaceted shades of grey
fag
for >>317765
you get the idea
>>317765
>complex and multifaceted
Like a Coke Freestyle machine.
Yes you fucking retard of an OP, current gamers are retarded.
Anyone who partake in current day triple gay bullshit actively reduces his thought functions and his gray matter capacity. Add to that the social media fast dopamine rush addiction and you've got yourself drooling retards.
A human need to be challenged to evolve or learn anything. There's a reason why old school gamers were a lot better at puzzles all around and solving shit plus generally better at learning new stuff.
If you were ti give any of these niggers that only play this current day bullshit the first professor layton game and held them at gunpoint to finish it, they couldn't.
Hell, I'm sure that if you gave them minesweeper, they couldn't even fucking figure it out on their own.
>>317764 (OP) 
My memory is super fuzzy, but regarding the tube in Super Metroid, wasn't it the case if you left the game on on the title screen long enough that it went through like a demo play sequence that'd show you how to get through that section?
Replies: >>317819
>>317812
No.  But it does show you how to infinite bomb jump.  You can also travel through Maridia up to that point by taking the entrance east of the Wrecked Ship.  When you get to the tube through that route it's very clear the key to progressing further is above the tube.
Replies: >>317841 >>317924
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They're educated stupid

In the not too distant past, numerous literal 6-year-olds routinely stumbled their way through a BASIC prompt to play games like Ultima and Zork, where they would keep notes on paper, including maps drawn on graph paper, and actually beat these games, having enough fun that they would buy more of them.

Regarding your specific conjecture about a vicious cycle of low expectations, however, I am reminded of the issue of clutter and false player accommodation in newer games.

DXHR was designed with far greater environmental detail than prior immersive sims such as the original Do Sex, including large amounts of knicknacks and greebles permanently bolted into the single giant level mesh. In order to retain something like the prior games' puzzle design, an omnipresent yellow outline highlight was used to distinguish interactable objects from all this new background clutter, which of course destroyed the subtlety prior games relied on to make their puzzles feel natural instead of demeaning. Fan outcry during prerelease publicity caused them to make the outlines a toggleable option by release, and with it disabled then of course it became needlessly difficult to

In the opposite direction, modern Bethslop from Oblivious onward has increasingly been designed with waypoint compasses and fast travel in mind. This disincentivized Bethesduh from putting anything actually interesting inbetween point of interest, which makes the organic experience of anybody disabling those features to actually explore the purportedly open world worse, which further pushes new players and devs alike to lean even harder on the fast travel/quest compass crutch.
Replies: >>317872
Oopss
>became needlessly difficult to guess where a puzzle is hiding.
Replies: >>317872
>>317819
They learned their lesson in Zero Mission. There's a similar tube at the very end and it is shown off in a demo IIRC, but it's only needed for 100% to get out of the endgame area and clean up the rest of the map.
Replies: >>317856
>Gamers are retards
>Modern game devs are retarded
>More artists on a team than level designers
<Those artists are also retarded

Retards are making games for retards, it's a downward spiral. No one knows how to make a level intuitive to traverse, and niggers with a PS5 can't think for themselves anyways. So you get buckets of yellow paint everywhere.
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>>317843
Don't worry, it's not because they're retarded or lazy. It's because they're "busy"
Replies: >>317881
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>>317841
>They learned their lesson
What was the lesson?  That Metroid needed a shitty remake full of handholding that completely misses the point of the original game?
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>>317822
>>317823
>Fan outcry during prerelease publicity caused them to make the outlines a toggleable option by release, and with it disabled then of course it became needlessly difficult to guess where a puzzle is hiding.
How would you solve this? Take out all items that can't be interacted with and potentially limit art direction or put extra dev time into adding interactions (e.g. toilet flushing, turning sink on/off)?
Replies: >>317881 >>317882
>>317856
Well how else would they make wymins buy a game like Metroid. it's best if you just make it brain dead as them.
Replies: >>317881
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>>317764 (OP) 
>Are gamers born retarded or are they just well-practiced?
My guess is that it's the latter, both from my own reading and from what I've observed.
Watching streamers play Peripeteia's tutorial level and discussing what I observed with the game's former level designer (we go back a long ways) was interesting. Initially I noticed that experienced FPS players were noticeably worse at navigating the levels than 3DPD and people who played very few 3D games, which was really weird to see even after I realised what was going on. Basically, the former weren't actually navigating levels the way they would a real-world 3D environment, but had basically conditioned themselves to be pulled around video game levels by "subtle" level designer tricks, and were utterly lost if a game level had less of these than usual. Most of these tricks are borrowed from Disney theme park design, which is explictly intended to magnetically pull a fat tourist around a theme park with zero conscious effort. In the absence of these, players would do things like stare directly at a giant glowing building while saying they had no idea where said building was, subconsciously assume they couldn't climb over railings even though the game was built around climbing mechanics, and generally wander around in a daze like headless chickens.
What was really interesting was that after some time of this, some kind of mental switch would flip, and players would suddenly find they understood 3D spaces better and could navigate just fine. The question became: how could the level designer help the player flip this mental switch as soon as possible? What he settled on was spawning the player inside a pit, thus forcing him to learn how to actually look at the environment and learn the climbing mechanics as soon as possible. This would also gatekeep anyone too stupid to escape the pit.
The funny thing is that this largely worked. The amount of level design complaints the devs received plummeted.

All the above is especially ironic when you learn that spatial memory is something humans actually have an innately high capacity for. We're really good at things like perceiving and remembering room layouts, and it's a skill that comes so easily to most people when it's actually trained (aka when we aren't letting Google Maps route everything for us) that much of classical memory training is all about exploting this. It involves techniques like mentally tying datasets to objects in physical spaces, and remembering them by taking an imaginary walk through the location.
This is the exact opposite of the basic underlying assumption of modern level design, which is that people inherently have the memory and spatial awareness of a goldfish. The modern level designer believes that people must be coddled, rather than encouraged to bring out and develop their natural abilities. That's not to say that a gamedev has to go to the extremes of the example I gave (the guy's a massive urbanex sperg who wanted to capture that experience in a video game), but I do believe that a lot of game and software design is effectively backwards, as much of it is about perceiving, thinking, and remembering for the user instead of helping him to become better at doing these himself.
>>317843
If that was case for games only we wouldnt have much to complain about(in general).
Sadly this is about the story of mankind, it may seem like we had a state of ascending and then declining, but ultimately it was always an attempt at making things simpler for themselfs and therefor less challenging resulting in weakness being bred, games just are the last frontier where this sickness creeps in, this is about a solid sign of the end.
>>317854
Well if they are retarded any lazy they are busy with something, besides when the customer is retarded and cant tell the difference why bother putting in that extra work.
>>317872
Sin from 94 had faucets and toilets you could flush, they served no purpose but made the world feel interactive in some way and had other stuff too that was either a joke or just pointless stuff to make the world more interactive.
It was great fun alone to find out about these sorts of little gimicks, hell in hl2 i mad small stupid childish games with the gravity gun and props, how wrong is the world to have degraded from that state to this oversimplified crap that we have now.
>>317875
Can you blame em?
The fairer sex made so much money from baiting sex for cash and spend it on such stupid mindless bullshit because they are mindless and full of shit so isnt it only good and right that other men help get that money back(the irony is they will probably spend it on hoes anyhow, closing the cycle).
>>317877
Very insightful post, gives quite something to think about.
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>>317872
The first approach (simply follow the conservation of detail design principles of the earlier games) is the simplest, and could even maintain verisimilitude through an in-world conceit of more spartan settings (space station, submarine, lab, hotel room, etc.) or fashions in decor. The second as suggested in your OP would help "prime the pump" for non-puzzlegame-players to get into puzzlegame mode , but in order to actually facilitate puzzle solving and discovery rather than just poking at stuff until something gives in, the puzzles would need to be made less like Deus Ex (finding hidden buttons and panels) and more like Red Faction or Half Life 2 (physics and other systems simulation.)

One other approach, though far more demanding, would be to lean all the way into more detailed environments with more forensic mechanisms for inspecting them, such as footprints, dust deposits, stray fibers or twigs, stains, fingerprints (even things requiring new UI, like smells, temperatures, or air currents), etc. though then you need to round out the environment with enough detail it feels immersive and doesn't loop back around to insultingly obvious like Detective Vision in Batman.
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>>317877
You've said a lot that I agree with and provided some good references, but since you actually seem to be in the space, do you think that the best way to entice people to act creatively is to force them to respond to a situation or that it could be even more subtle through observation? One thing that I was really keen on in my project is taking a page out of fighting games by giving players and NPCs the same set of actions so players can learn that they can do something even if it isn't made clear through explicit instruction.

>>317882
>One other approach, though far more demanding, would be to lean all the way into more detailed environments with more forensic mechanisms for inspecting them, such as footprints, dust deposits, stray fibers or twigs, stains, fingerprints (even things requiring new UI, like smells, temperatures, or air currents), etc. though then you need to round out the environment with enough detail it feels immersive and doesn't loop back around to insultingly obvious like Detective Vision in Batman.
One thing that I REALLY liked about Red Dead Redemption 2 is the commitment to details. They did a lot to make sure that horse trails could be followed or certain mission placements being where you would expect to instigate them. It's by no means perfect and there was a lot of frustration with how scripted the missions were, but much of the game can be played without the HUD.
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Computers went wrong when they started publishing games commercially, and you no longer had to write your own or type in a listing from a magazine (and often needing to adapt it from a different BASIC dialect).
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>>317915
Computers went wrong when they started using electricity. There, now I'm more contrarian and therefore more better than you.
Replies: >>317920 >>317922
>>317919
actually computers are made by jews for goyim nigger cattle sedation, real aryan ubermensch like me use pen and paper written binary code sent by carrier pigeons. you're clearly a pajeet troglodyte not 100% aryan promax like me so your opinion is invalid, hypocrite.
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>>317919
It doesn't actually matter if the computer is mechanical or works on electricity. Either way you will still refuse to make your own games.
>>317819
I'm having a Berenstein Bears/Mandela Moment. I SWEAR I remember being stuck forever there as a kid. I popped in my cartridge and you're right, it doesn't show it in the attract mode, but I still can't believe it.
I'mma play through a new file until I get power bombs and see that tube and leave it on attract mode and see if anything changes. The more I think about this, the more I think I was stuck at that point, and remember just kind of blindly sitting at the title screen trying to think through what to do when I saw it being hinted at there.
>>317877
I still have a complaint about the level design, or at least my gpu does.
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>>317905
Sorry for responding so late. I'm still looking into a lot of things that may or may not have some kind of tangental relevance to this, and I'm messing around with some of them IRL.
In regards to your question, why ask whether it's better to force players to respond to a situation or encourage observation when you can do both? Each is a natural fit for the other. This isn't so much a matter of using one technique as it is of interrelated ones. In my earlier example, Peripeteia gave players a lot of tools to encourage exploration, and rewarded persistent ones with a lot of routes and neat hidden stuff, but these tools became more effective after players were pushed to be observant in the first place through escaping the spawn pit.


To help make up for how late this is, here's some extra autism.
Something I have realised is that there was a connection between those old playground rumours about games, and the initial struggles new players used to have when they first tried playing vidya, as both fell for the artifice of games and believed they were way more expansive than they actually were. They didn't know what was interactive and what wasn't. They didn't properly distinguish between level geometry and skybox. They imagined all sorts of hidden techniques and secrets behind every piece of geometry, all of which became increasingly unlikely as games grew more over-streamlined.
Part of becoming an experienced player meant optimizing away this overly-expansive view of games. They learned to recognise what they could interact with and what they couldn't, developed a feel for how game mechanics worked, and thus constructed necessarily more limited mental models of games. To some extent, doing this was necessary, as it gave players a better idea of what games actually were and often increased their ability to play them. This process also takes place within you as you familiarise yourself with an individual game. I've also noticed on my end that when I dream about games, that initial over-expanded view of them returns, along with a sort of fog of war and sense that anything is possible within them.
The problem was that as new players made their mental models around increasingly dumbed-down games with theme park-ified levels, their idea of what a game could be shrank too far. They shrank so far that they basically optimized away their own thought processes, conscious observation, navigational skills, and memory capacity as unnecessary. They became less able to interact with older or stranger games which actually did have odd secrets, hidden mechanics, or unusual level design. The very same process which made older players more efficient at playing games ironically made newer ones less capable.
Mental models aren't bad. You just don't want to get stuck inside overly-limiting ones which fool you with a false sense of completeness. Furthermore, something of that childlike wonder and uncertainty is necessary to make truly insightful observations, or even to build good mental models in the first place. It's worth noting that said wonder stuck around long enough in players of old games to create those out-there rumours at all, whereas now it's very quickly optimized away, and it gets dismissed as worthless by people who internalise game wikis and mistake them for the games themselves as they play them.

Much of what I talked about earlier was partially an attempt at dealing with this issue. I'm not the only person who has wrangled with this either. Yoko Taro actually talked about a complimentary approach in a GDC talk called Making Weird Games for Weird People ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQxhyHMUJ74 ), and Frictional Games' old blog had really good series of articles on mental models and decision making in games that I can't recommend enough (I'll link them later). But there is still a lot of unexplored territory and ideas which have not been brought together, and my intuition is that if this inversion of game design which thinks and remembers for the player is taken far enough, it could reverse a lot of the cancer that plagues modern game design.

>>317933
What I've seen of the level designer's unannounced game runs a lot better, huge levels and all. Applying his Unity HDRP-debloating experience to something inherently less fat and retarded does wonders.
Okay, here's a sequence of those Frictional Games articles I put down in a text file several years ago. I sort of remember something about the sequence being incomplete and fixing it later, but I'm not sure where I put that one.
The series got kicked off when players complained that Soma was more of a walking simulator than Amnesia, which surprised the devs because Soma technically had more kinds of environmental interaction than Amnesia did. Instead of dismissing this or calling gamers stupid, they looked deeply into the complaint, wrote these articles as they thought it out, and eventually surprised everyone who didn't read their blog by releasing Amnesia: The Bunker. The starting point is not where the average /v/ anon starts, and it makes statements here and there which I disagree with, but as a whole there's enough real gold in there that it's easily the most insightful thing I've ever read on game design.

Main: https://frictionalgames.blogspot.com/2017/04/evoking-presence.html > http://frictionalgames.blogspot.com/2017/04/mental-models.html -> http://frictionalgames.blogspot.com/2017/05/story-what-is-it-good-for.html -> http://frictionalgames.blogspot.com/2017/05/the-ssm-framework-of-game-design.html -> http://frictionalgames.blogspot.com/2017/05/planning-core-reason-why-gameplay-feels.html -> http://frictionalgames.blogspot.com/2017/06/gaps-of-imagination.html -> http://frictionalgames.blogspot.com/2017/07/the-illusion-of-analog-world.html
Optional: https://frictionalgames.blogspot.com/2017/06/the-complexity-fallacy.html
https://frictionalgames.blogspot.com/2017/06/choices-consequences-and-ability-to-plan.html
>>317877
>It involves techniques like mentally tying datasets to objects in physical spaces, and remembering them by taking an imaginary walk through the location.
I did this a lot when I played more serious Magic: the Gathering and needed to wield mental awareness of 5-10 different deck matchups and 30-50 principles of navigating a game state towards victory throughout an 8-hour Swiss event. I'd visualize the board as a series of rectangular panels and light them up different colors with arrows between them to indicate relationships between cards and game actions.

Such as:
- Okay, he's at 5 life and I have 2 cards in hand. One of them is a 3-damage burn spell and the other lets me look at his hand and make him discard something. I'd like to draw a second burn spell and unload all three of them in the same turn.
- HOWEVER, waiting multiple turns to see more cards lets him see more cards as well, meaning he more likely has interaction to stop whatever I do.
- HOWEVER, if I wait longer then my look-at-hand card becomes more useful and potentially more threatening, because the average usefulness of the cards in his hand will be better.
- HOWEVER, it's possible he draws into so much interaction that I get overwhelmed and my window to burn him to death closes. In which case I should fire off both the look-at-hand spell and the burn spell right now and hope to topdeck something.

So that would lead to more logic puzzles and decisionmaking. Fascinating to learn that it's a core part of human memory and brainpower, although it all makes sense based on what I've experienced and learned.
>>317764 (OP) 
The problem is that devs are fucking retarded and break their own rules in the middle of development, video games are not real, devs cannot arbitrarily change the rules of the game because they thought of a cool set piece in the middle of development, the Metroid's glass tube breaks all the rules of the game, because it doesn't look like the common wall, it is a unique set piece created for that area and that area alone. 
>but there was a hint
Super Metroid isn't a point and click game, there are expectations based on the genre. 
>but the player has to experiment
Humans are lazy, and they hate change.
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>>320623
OP was asking for answers, not demonstrations. He posted a basic test of common sense (a breakable glass tube, a broken glass tube, and multiple objects which only break when powerbombed) from a video game designed around its theme, and in trying to find an excuse for why this was bad, you pretended Super Metroid was instead designed as a 100% abstract system like checkers with no room for a simple puzzle.
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>>320623
Just make your own Metroid. I bet some dude has done it, in QBasic.
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>>320632
>anon returns in twelve years with a formally proven metroidvania in Standard ML
>it is a perfect implementation of his metroidvania genre expectations
>it is mathematically impossible for the player to break the rules
>breaking the rules as a developer causes a type error
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>>320630
>He posted a basic test of common sense 
>(a breakable glass tube, a broken glass tube, and multiple objects which only break when powerbombed) 
Except in no other area of Super Metroid is an unique environmental asset that has to be destroyed to progress, it is either a hidden path with a generic wall asset or a door that closes afterwards, the glass tube is unique in super metroid, it breaks rules that the game has conditioned the player.
Video games are like board games, they have rules, and expecting the player to use external or real world knowledge to solve any problem is baffling regardless of how logical it sounds.
Personally I think developers must to assume that the player is vat grown human living in a pod and raised by an AI.
Replies: >>320641 >>320645
>>320639
>developers must to assume that the player is vat grown human living in a pod and raised by an AI.
I wouldn't go that far, because then you end up with
<Follow the big glowing arrows to progress, you dumb faggot!
Although I agree with the Super Metroid tuuube being as asspull.
Replies: >>320645
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>>320639
>encounter an puzzle with hints in a video game
>sperg about how this doesn't perfectly fit into the game rules you've constructed in your mind and compare it to a board game
>the use of external or real world knowledge which you call baffling is the knowledge that glass breaks
The presence of a puzzle is not bad game design, nor is someone's failure to immediately understand it bad game design. You tried to autistically decode a realtime video game with a lot of discovery and exploration as if it was intended to be "just" a fancy realtime board game with more or less arbitrary graphics and sound, only to get filtered by a puzzle's use of toddler-tier real world knowledge and graphics which were not arbitrary. Instead of becoming more observant or thoughtful, you found a way to blame the developer, and carried on worse-off than before, as your strengthened mental system had actually made you worse at solving problems or rectifying your inner models.

Hence OP's question: are people born this stupid, or are they just well practiced at it?

>>320641
Eh, sometimes asspulls they have their place in breaking people out of their comfort zones or creating memorable moments. They aren't guaranteed to fix stupid though.
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>>320645
>Hence OP's question: are people born this stupid, or are they just well practiced at it?
Most of the population was born just to raze fields and nothing more how well practiced they are simply means nothing. Giving them magical black boxes with mirrors that can record things only just to relish in their own retardation because they are incapable of learning. It takes a special level of stupidity to get confused about your own sex and make it a movement just to lynch anyone who doesn't agree.

It's why every old game gets a "remake" or "remaster" which removes parts retards complained about.
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>>320645
>Hence OP's question: are people born this stupid, or are they just well practiced at it?
Most of them prefer predictability over discomfort, that is it, the moment you teach them a set of rules they will follow until their deathbed, they don't want to think beyond what they learned, because why would they, they are satisfied with their existence, they just want life, and experiences, to be smooth and predictable, and there is nothing wrong with that, trying to force them outside of their comfort zone because of some personal desire to see them "grow", that is stupid.

>Eh, sometimes asspulls they have their place in breaking people out of their comfort zones or creating memorable moment
No, they are aren't, they break the flow of the game, example, Silent Hill's piano puzzle, the game expects the player to know music theory, or God of War 1 and 2 puzzle and platforming sections, they are simple but they break core aspect of the game which is combat, I just want to kill things for 6h straight, non stop, and see cool set pieces, I don't want to think beyond square square square circle triangle.
Good to see more responses. I’ll read through them but one thing just immediately popped out that I want to briefly respond.

>>320658
<Hence OP's question: are people born this stupid, or are they just well practiced at it?
>Most of them prefer predictability over discomfort, that is it, the moment you teach them a set of rules they will follow until their deathbed
Can one of those rules be experimentation? Can you teach people that they have to figure out some rules for themselves or would that be too frustrating?
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>>320658
That piano puzzle took me like half an hour to figure out. I don't know shit about music.
>>320661
>can you teach people that they have to figure out some rules for themselves
I think you can, but you need to explain the rules and basic concepts in a intuitive way, otherwise the player is going to feel lost, its like the quadratic equation, there is big difference between being able calculate a quadratic equation based on given variables and applying the equation in a real world scenario, these are two different set of skills.
Another point is that the game has to reward the player for experimentation, not in a transactional way, but the world has to react to the actions of the player in way that lets the player see the result of his actions immediately, for example, let's say there is a quest where the player has to eliminate a bandit that invaded a house, the player then decides to use a fire spell to set fire in the house, killing the burglar but destroying the house in the process, this works as a reward for the player to think beyond, just kill bandit.
Replies: >>320674
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>>320658
>>320665
If any one-off event or genre shift has you launching into nongrammatical ramblings about rule violations, and how humanity cannot handle anything outside the usual, why are you playing video games about adventures in the first place? You talk about individual moments that people might not like for their own more or less valid reasons, but your total mindset is more that of an extremely pedantic bureaucrat than someone who enjoys any kind of adventure in life.
Why I bring this up is because you then start making statements such as:
>you need to explain the rules and basic concepts in a intuitive way, otherwise the player is going to feel lost
>the game has to reward the player for experimentation
>the world has to react to the actions of the player in way that lets the player see the result of his actions immediately
These are often very good traits, but when you make them absolute requirements, you kill off any ambiguity, and quite often any real sense of discovery. You limit the experience to whatever you understand in the moment or can autistically systematise. Anything which has some kind of higher purpose, or which fits into the system in a way you don't understand, is thrown out.

If your entire philosophy is a justification for mediocrity, and is only brought out to excuse yourself whenever you're removed from your comfort zone, your philosophy is more like a self-defense mechanism than something with real explanatory power.
Replies: >>320698
>>320658
>Silent Hill's piano puzzle, the game expects the player to know music theory 
no? are you retarded? there's no music theory involved. sounds to me like you got filtered and are blaming it on something else
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>>320658
>Silent Hill's piano puzzle
The black birds in the poem are black keys and the light birds are white keys. Three of the "birds" are next to each other and one of them is at the end of the actionable segment.
You are meant to press 5 keys in the order the poem tells you. Go figure.
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>>320676
That sounds like average game puzzle, just requires you to recognize patterns and look at things a little more abstractly (not just take everything at face value).
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>>320674
>how humanity cannot handle anything outside the usual,
I'm saying that humans are inherently lazy and prefer predictable routines, that is it, they can change and adapt, but if they were given the option to exist in a universe where they will know how tomorrow would play out, I believe the majority of them will prefer to live in that universe over this one.

>why are you playing video games about adventures in the first place? 
Because I enjoy games for different reasons, I enjoy the gameplay, I enjoy the environments, the art direction, the music, the visual effects, the animation, the world building, the engineering solutions that devs had to come up with, and while I play I like to create my solutions to deal with the game's shortcomings. 

>but your total mindset is more that of an extremely pedantic bureaucrat than someone who enjoys any kind of adventure in life.
Because genres have expectations, if I'm playing a metroidvania I expect systemic gameplay not point and click logic puzzles, if I'm playing a point and click game I don't expect reaction or time based challenges, and life is difficult enough as it is, and I would rather not add more complications to it.
Replies: >>320702
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>>320698
Will you satisfy the English language's expectation that you learn to write in sentences?
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>>320702
English language is a person?
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