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READ THE RULES


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Old thread was deleted, so I guess this one is MODS ARE FAGS edition. Pre-Gommage tourists need no apply.

What are your thoughts about the game? Any story theories you have? Who are you buidling and how? Who is best girl and why is it Sciel?
Replies: >>278588 >>278597
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I'm too lazy to rewrite all the posts I've done last thread. I do feel the thread got better at the end. Only pre-fracture and pre-gommage survivors shall know. 

>>278583 (OP) 
Best girl is irl Alicia and I'm not even a katawa shoujofag.
Currently been minmaxing my Maelle. I've been hitting 5m but I know you can go over a billion. The game has changed from getting gud to just maximising my autism. I guess it could make sense in a way since Maelle remembered she's basically a god. 
My party was Maelle, Verso and Monoco. I never played with Sciel beyond just doing a 2nd chance clutch win. At first I benched Lune for Monoco in order to see what new feet he would unlock but turn out the feetfag was stronger than the feetwhore as a support and debuffer so he stayed. Which suck because I managed to give her 100% crit and wanted to see her spam elemental trick into genesis. Currently doing all the optional content before doing the final boss.
Nigger-lover's game
Replies: >>278603 >>278657
>>278583 (OP) 
I don’t think mods should cave to derail attempts and delete the threads. There were people genuinely discussing the game.
Btw playing with french dub is better than playing english, lune va is obnoxious.
I’ve never heard of this game. What can you fags tell me about it?
>>278599
Haven't pirated it yet, but from what i can see looks like a french Persona 5 with timed hits and a depressing story. So it sounds interesting (and previous posts ensuring a certain level of difficulty instead of permanent baby mode only raises my interest)
>>278598
And THAT's the post i was waiting for. I like to do this shit when the game is originally from a certain country (like playing Metro 2033 with russian dub)
Replies: >>278605
>>278590
Truthnuke
>>278598
>playing with french dub is better than playing english
Gotta agree. The tone hits just right, especially since it's essentially a drama/play.

>>278599
Turn based with mechanics on top, specifically dodging and parrying on time with each character having unique skills that can be chained with other team members' to deal some hefty damage. The story is interesting and the music is beautiful.
Replies: >>278605
>>278598
It's english Maelle voice that absolutely ruin it for me.
also playing the game with french text made it an obvious choice, i generally play on english normally however but since it was a french game I made an exception.

>>278599
The year is still young but good chance it's the best game of the year unless something insane release later in the year. It's my opinion but I do feel the quality is good enough to justify it in an objective way too.
Story and lore are well-crafted, characters are well written and by jrpg standards are extremely good, the music is god-tier and was made by some random music teacher that the director found online and the gameplay has somehow managed to make what is turn-based combat into some of the most intense and skill-demanding gameplay I've ever witnessed.

>>278602
>spoiler
I pirated it, wanted to buy it just because I want to encourage the devs and now I wanna buy it even more but sadly I think I missed the discount.
I also like to play with the original dub most of the time, because it fit the culture and tone better. Sadly sometime the original language dub is either not there or bad quality.

>>278604
>drama/play
Yes, French is more poetic and refined than English and I'm not saying this to denigrate English. Each language has their own strength, French's is definitively in the intricacies of its written language which translate itself into very good dialogues, meanwhile English sound better for casual spoken conversations since it has less rules and is a more vocal language to begin with. To further prove my point, in English most of the words of French origin are generally fancier than their germanic counterparts and there is a ton of untranslated French left in the English language.
Replies: >>278613
>>278605
>the music is god-tier
As gay as it sounds, I legitimately teared up at the harbor scene at the beginning. What outstanding melancholic music and cinematography. I've felt more emotion for Gustave and Sophie withing a matter of 30 minutes than entire casts of other games that you get to spend hours with. People were praising ReFantazio as some kind of masterpiece for music and storytelling, when in reality it is a dumbed down Persona which is already a dumbed down SMT. This game wipes the floor with that hot pile of trash in every category.
Replies: >>278626 >>278630
>>278613
>cried at the intro
You are in for a ride, Anon.
Replies: >>278629 >>278630
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<<278625
Rewarding games that are made with a whole lot less DEI is how you continue to whittle down DEI as a whole until only games without DEI get the full rewards. It's like training a dog to not shit where it eats, patience is key and yelling at it gets you nothing.

>>278626
I've gotten past another point that broke my black hole of a heart. Gustave had a hard life. But when one falls, we continue. Can't wait to be left a sobbing mess in future acts.
Replies: >>278630 >>278662
>>278613
>>278626
>>278629
This thread reeks of shills, and partly reads of some sentimental faggotry, probably some part of cuckchan. Overgrown manbabies, or soulless shills? Or both?
Replies: >>278631 >>278639
>>278630
I almost forgot we don't talk about videogames in /v/.
Replies: >>278632
>>278631
We do, and we don't appreciate being interrupted by marketers so they can announce the latest and greatest release that will be forgotten in a week.
<<278632
Strange how those marketers end up earnestly talking to one another about actual video games while a bunch of whiny one and dones interrupt.
Replies: >>278638
Is it true that the devs are ex-Ubisoft? I heard that on another namefag forum and I find it hard to believe anyone who worked there in the last 10 years could make a good game.
Replies: >>278640 >>278642
>>278633
Almost like they're paid to... I can't figure this out... Guess I'm not a real gamer... sigh...
Replies: >>278639
>>278630
>>278638
What, you can't even talk about a game in its own thread? Think about the point that you are advocating for and then come back when you got some hair on your face.
Replies: >>278643 >>278646
<<278638
Imagine barking into nothingness day in and day out, and doing it for free no less. 

>>278637
It's amazing what people are capable of when the restraints come off. I for one am very happy that such a formerly glorious and prestigious company such as old Ubisoft (tm) (r) has created such great talent that now gets to create good games once again on their own this time. Twenty shillings have been deposited into your bank account, do not read this message out lou-
>>278637
They are clearly passionate about games; people pointed out the Dante ranks on Verso and the fact the game director has DMC as one of his favorite game. I've personally seen a ton of references to other games like Simon's 2nd phase looking like Sephiroth and general tropes of the JRPG genre like a random casinos and having the characters complain about fetch quests only to be told the item they are looking for is in a nearby room. I'm guessing being passionate is why they left the soulless husk that is Ubishit and went to do their dream game.
>>278639
he will keep shitting the thread as long you feed him
>>278639
>its own thread
It's another FOTM game being shilled by actors, apparent by all of the "I played this game and I was blown away!!!" and "Gaming is saved!!!!" videos popping up, no different from the Stellar Blade nonsense among many other instances. This game will be forgotten and all that's left are the pathetic people that shilled it and the morons that bought into it. Following behind the hype that takes the normalfags along their merry path through mediocrity only highlights your own normalfag tastes, whether its done for any explicit purpose or out of your own shit taste. Played Hogwart's Legacy, too, little normalfag? One of the REmakes? What other games that your friends streamers play have you declared an amazing game that's now a footnote?
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>MOMMY MOMMY LOOK MOMMY I CALLED THE NEW THING BAD LOOK MOMMY LOOK
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>>278654
>You can't criticise overhyped new thing
Man you guys suck. Why don't you just leave to 4reddit if you're going to enjoy every piece of shit that recently comes out.
Replies: >>278658 >>278659
>>278590
Trvthnvke.
>>278656
This shit is the HiFi Rush of 2025. Someone fucking get Mark/v/ out of here.
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>>278656
<You can't criticise overhyped new thing
But you don't? You just say it's popular therefore it must be bad.
It's just a good game, and for a change in nearly every aspect. To contrast it to the aforementioned Stellar Blade, this is a better version of Persona in every aspect but length, while SB is a worse Nier Automata which was already a flawed (but good) game on its own. 
Yoko Taro's ButtSim mostly being let down by bad design in the RPG aspect of it, which diminishes the Platinum combat especially by being too easy unless you avoid most of the game. Graphically it's pretty good albeit a bit bland (or washed out, rather) in the color department, story and music are both pretty damn great as has come to be expected of Moonman, and 2B's fine piece of ass is a nice bonus selling point.
Comparatively, Worst Korea's Automata actually did a bit better in the challenge department, but just seems to lack the final level of polish Platinum brings to combat, on top of the general moment to moment gameplay trying too hard to be like shitty AAA games while on a AA budget. It looks fine, although Eve is a poor man's 2B, and story and music wise it is a whole lot more forgettable.

And then we have this game. It's got a great battle system (obviously incomparable to those other two games being a different genre) with unique mechanics for each character, nice build expressiveness, and actual nice challenge as long as you don't pick Game Journo mode. It's already crazy enough that what amounts to a JRPG (due to stupidity of the genre naming) has so many interesting mechanics in the first place (Lisa: The Painful comes to mind, albeit with way less characters) but for it to also somehow manage to be a nice challenge while most muh hardcore RPGs tend to be grindfests instead of requiring thought and in this case even mechanical skill is honestly impressive.
And then visually it's an absolute behemoth, with some of the best use of color in a game ever. Elden Ring has some amazing vistas, which is the closest comparison I can think of, but other than the Erdtree it tends to lack a bit in the contrast department. Especially the titular 33 is obviously inspired by that particular source, with the specific shade of yellow on a massive structure in the distance, but I can't really say that's a bad thing. Both that game and this one use lots of verticality in very destroyed environments, but this one uses a lot more whimsical stuff such as the not-underwater area. It's thematically designed after semi-abstract paintings (for obvious story reasons) but it's not often you can literally take screenshots of an environment and it'd make legit good art on your wall. Old Spyro comes to mind for some reason, especially those desktop background collections anons made, but technical art wise that's obviously way more of an acquired taste what with it being a PS1 game.
Music's absolutely stellar, I'm not good enough at that topic to do it much justice critiquing it, but even I can tell is uses leitmotifs impressively well and I like how it regularly goes agressively French. In the intro section it strongly supports the emotional gut punches, and combat music regularly has me stop and just listen to it because it's cool. I'm not far enough into the game for the JRPG-ramp-up in how muh epic shit's probably going to get, but I doubt the music's going to disappoint when that almost inevitably happens.
Story's great, start is almost as good as the first five minutes of Up in getting you to care about people you just met for the first time only to roundhouse kick you in the gut, but in general it's also just interesting and unique. Again, not far enough into the game, so can't fully judge that.

The only actual valid complaint people have been managing to come up with is that it has too many nigger background NPCs in the first 15 minutes of the game. For a 30+ hour game (from what I've heard), made by a country as cucked as the French, that's more of an accomplishment in how little faggotry that is. So forgive me for not shitting on it over just that tiny infraction. It's just a good game.
Replies: >>278662 >>278686
>>278629
>Rewarding games that are made with a whole lot less DEI is how you continue to whittle down DEI
>Guys you heard it here first. Lets reward people putting niggers,woke shit in our games because that will eventually make them stop somehow! Very nice logic!
You cuckchanners stick out like a sore thumb. 
>>278659
>The only actual valid complaint people have been managing to come up with is that it has too many nigger background NPCs in the first 15 minutes of the game.
Its a game that is basically in 1800-1900s france so there shouldnt be any niggers in the first place. And niggers exist past those 15 minutes. Who are you trying to fool here?
>For a 30+ hour game (from what I've heard), made by a country as cucked as the French, that's more of an accomplishment in how little faggotry that is.
How is that an accomplishment in any way?
>Oh they are just doing it less so therefore its fine
You are defending them putting niggers in 1800-1900s france and calling it an accomplishment.
>So forgive me for not shitting on it over just that tiny infraction. It's just a good game.
>tiny infraction
>good game
You are a cuckchanner. Only a cuckchanner would defend shit like this.
Replies: >>278663 >>278689
>>278662
Well would you look at that, more whining about anything except the actual game. You can throw limp wristed "cuckchanner" accusations around all you want, but you're the one arguing like one by refusing to actually critique the game (or even play it in the first place probably), and for someone so upset by niggers you sure have the IQ of one.
Replies: >>278667
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>more DRM-crippled slop
I'll give it the time of day when the devs have enough respect not to install spyware on my computer in order to play it.  Until then, shills gonna shill.
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>>278663
niggers suck lol
Replies: >>278700
>>278665
Threadly reminder that the fat fug got the largest install base on PC and you can pirate most steam games.
Replies: >>278680
>>278677
can you move to the part where you switch IPs 5 times and reply to yourself various flavors of "it's over we lost we should just kill ourselves?" already
>>278665
There's always the option of sailing the high seas.
Replies: >>278680
>>278673
>>278679
You're mistaken.  Simply making an unauthorized copy of a DRM-crippled game does nothing to convince devs to stop doing it.  As a matter of fact, study after study has repeatedly shown that unauthorized copying can actually increase the commercial sales of a game by serving as viral word-of-mouth advertisement.  Only complete abstention and hostility towards devs trying to take over your fucking computer to play a game will ever resolve the mess we're in.  Pick your spine up back off the floor and demand better.
Replies: >>278683 >>278685
>>278680
Oh ebin. You have discovered that decade old study that reveals that pirates who don't get legally molested by some economically unnecessary law firm  are more likely to be new customers. You can either pirate and control your impulses and don't buy or wait a few years for the GoG version that also involves your impulses. But you obviously can't. Otherwise you wouldn't ejaculate inside a perfectly fine vidya thread.

Once again: The fat fug has the largest install base on PC. The wasteland belongs to the humongously fat boomers.
they really did put a parry mechanic in a turn-based rpg
>>278680
>bitches about DRM
<just pirate it
>but it won't make them stop
Yeah, no shit. But that wasn't what you were talking about.
>>278659
>But you don't? You just say it's popular therefore it must be bad.
<Even though you haven't stated why you don't like it, even though you haven't criticized it yet, you just hate it because it is new a-and popular!
You're arguing like a normalfag on reddit, and wonder why we don't want you 4rapefugees here.
>>278662
>niggers exist past those 15 minutes
You haven't played the game, have you? The niggers get literally deleted from the game, and the only survivor dies first. Also, Lumière isn't even real France. 
We'd all be getting roadhead from prime twi'lek pussy in our hovercars while cruising around the blue skies of Neo Venezia on Mars by now if niggers were deleted 15 minutes into history.
Replies: >>278691
>>278690
With you contributing to none of those things whatsoever.
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>>278691
Autistic ESL non-sequitur response of sheer butthurt.
Replies: >>278693
>>278692
Says the guy who wants to cruise around "Neo" Venezia when italians are closer to niggers than whites.
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>>278693
You didn't get the reference and your shit's all retarded.
>crying about Italy suddenly
Hapa faggot lol
>>278667
Eternal reminder that Lincoln wanted to ship all the niggers back to Africa, but the south wouldn't let him. Then he got shot by the south. The south loves their red white and blue blooded niggers.
Replies: >>278749
I am convinced no one, possibly not even the authors themselves, understood the story of the game. I am tired of seeing people comment on Verso's ending being the good one because the story is about grief, when no one points out the story is also about meta-fiction, art, and death of the author.
Replies: >>278722
>>278719
I think saying there is a good or bad ending is wrong in this game, it's all too subjective. It's like comparing spaghettis and rigatoni and saying there is a good and bad pasta. They can be both bad and they can be both good and it can be at the same time. I think some stories are to some degree personal stories where the player is left to decide his own interpretation and thus make his own conclusions.
>even the authors themselves
Have they said anything about the ending outside of the game? I don't use social media.
Replies: >>278724
>>278722
>Have they said anything about the ending outside of the game?
No, it's not about anything they have said off-game, it's mostly the treatment of Maelle's ending with the nightmare filter, and the mere suggestion that she is "torturing" and controlling Verso by giving him the life he wanted.

I agree there is no good and bad endings, but one of them is clearly presented as a worse one if only by choice of the directors framing it as the bad one. Alicia sacrificing her real lifespan for the sake of the Canvas is already tragic enough, and all that while having to live her life as the new Paintress carrying the weight of the world on her shoulders instead of enjoying a serendipitious life as an oblivious Maelle. Maelle, not Alicia, is the real victim in both endings. However, I am still convinced people haven't understood the story. Many people say Act III diminishes the impact of the story so far because "it's all fake" and the "real story", by virtue of being in a superior layer of fictitiousness, is about the real Dessendre family and their grief. In my opinion, the story is about as much about them as about the world, and not recognizing that the Dessendre family is as real or as fake (both are pixels in your screen, and the "real world" isn't even based in our world due to the implications of December having 33 days or more) as the inhabitants of the Canvas. People are falling for the story's own trap cards; I think this may have been intentional on the writers' side to spark debate, but they overdid they wrongness of Maelle's ending.
Replies: >>278726
>>278724
I haven't reached the ending so never saw either because I'm busy grinding for Simon but I know the main gist of both ending.
Doesn't Verso want to die in the first place? Forcing someone to live can be pretty tyrannical in some context, but here it's even more muddy because the life of everyone in the canvas is tied to his. You can argue about the people of Lumière being actual humans or just the equivalent of magic artificial intelligence and this too influence which ending feel good or bad. The people of Lumière fought to save themselves so obviously they wouldn't want to die. Personally I think they have free will; you can also see some white nevrons also seem to have free will; one of them know he has failed his mission to kill other 'defective' nevron and despite that he shows humanity in wanting to help them. This question doesn't resolve anything because some people could accept animals being living things with emotions but have no issue with killing them for their own purpose. The point I'm trying to make is that this just bring an unending debate that has no objective truth to it, only subjective opinions. I think the directors may have wanted to remind the average player that there isn't a good ending, what people would take for Alicia get to live without being a burnt victim with the people she got to know and love is actually more complex in both a metaphysical philosophical way and actual tangible ways. I've heard in the other ending, the game seem to allude to Alicia being suicidal so perhaps this issue is balanced. At the end of the day, I think the true meaning of either ending belong to the player: Maybe Alicia will kill herself or maybe she has learned enough about grief to let go and Maybe it is actually torturing Verso's soul against his will or maybe life is worthless if you don't enjoy it so it doesn't matter Alicia is sacrificing her lifespan. Isn't 'A life worth living' one of the song ingame too?.

>Maelle, not Alicia, is the real victim in both endings
I don't think so. Maelle isn't a real person, it's an amnesic Alicia. The moment she remebered who she was, both the purely pre-painting Alicia and Maelle died to become Alicia who lived Maelle's life. I think suddenly remembering a past life would create a 3rd person. But I agree that Alicia enjoyed her adventure a lot less than the innocent unknowing Maelle since she had lot more responsibilities on her shoulders and maybe blame too. She's probably blaming herself to some degree for having cause the fire that killed Verso and kickstarted the whole story. I felt she also feel responsible for painting Alicia being a tortured soul since painted Alicie did nothing yet was created with all the injuries hence why she wanted to make right at the end by fixing her only to be told 'just kill me'. That kind of shit do weight on a soul and will never go away once its there.

>Many people say Act III diminishes the impact of the story so far because "it's all fake" and the "real story
These are simply retarded faggots. It would be understandable if the game ended with 'it's just a dream bro lmao get fucked no refund', but a major point of debate between irl Renoir/Clea and Mother is that the people in the canvas have feelings and, for lack of a better word, a real life. I could understand saying the story in the canvas don't matter beyond the effect it has in the real life(of the painter family) because they subscribe to Renoir's mentality but even then it wouldn't justify arguing that the game itself doesn't matter because suddenly there is another layer of 'reality' above the ones we have been playing for the past two acts. It would be like saying life on earth doesn't matter because heaven exist, despite almost all religions putting a lot of importance on how you live this earthly life in order to be rewarded in the afterlife.

>33 december
I don't even know if this mean anything beyond a subtle title(?) drop. The number 33 has been dropped in a lot of places in this game. Currently finished the endless tower and the total amount of fights there is 33. I don't think there is that big of a meaning behind the evocation of the 33 number. I think 33 was picked for story-telling purposes and they wanted to put it everywhere since the devs seem to like putting a lot of references and eastern eggs.

>they overdid they wrongness of Maelle's ending.
I'll have to see both ending for myself, but like I said earlier I'm sure it's balanced but some people are more attuned to some stuff so perhaps to you it felt way worse than the other ending. Just need to kill simon and do the flying manor and I'll go check out the final boss and the ending myself today.
Replies: >>278734
>>278726
>>Doesn't Verso want to die in the first place?
Well, the thing about Verso is that he is "tired". The real fragment of Verso's soul inside of the Canvas is tired of painting, and the painted Verso is tired of living due to being over 100 years old and having seen so much death and despair. The other thing about Verso is Verso's soul seems to be barely sentient; it's more like he is a memory rather than a person, and I think that's intentional, because a memory is all that's left of Verso. The game does seem to imply Paintings are like lich phyllacteries for Painters, that require or at the very least reflect a part of their soul, so it COULD be his literal soul being enslaved fora few years more, but it may also be symbolic. The thing that muds the waters and people don't seem to notice is that Maelle asks a gommaged Verso that, if she could give him a life where he was allowed to grow old, whether he would want it or not. I don't think the repainted Verso is thus being tortured for the sake of Malle's "dollhouse", but being a repainted version of himself probably makes him notice something is off about Maelle's perfect Lumière. In "The End", just before fighting the final boss, you can see little Verso's spirit playing the piano in the Opera house, so I do not think repainted Verso is being tortured or played as a puppet.
>Personally I think they have free will
So do I. The game seems to imply as much, given the game makes a point to depict painted characters having rich lives with other painted characters. The world doesn't revolve around the Dessendre family, and I think the idea of the game is that even in fiction, in your mind, its characters are real and alive. Painted Verso even rebels against the Canvas, which could arguably be just the real Verso's soul acting through the painted Verso, but then you can sense the utter looks of betrayal Lune and Sciel give him when there is no other Painter around to witness them.

>Maelle isn't a real person
That's the thing, I think she is. She is another character painted by Aline, which consciously or subconsciously is meant to live the life Alicia should have lived. In a way, Alicia died with Verso in that fire, and Maelle is simply her reincarnation or afterlife: another chance at life.
You are right, however, when you point out Maelle died the moment Alicia remembered herself. She took the merge of memories surprisingly well, all things considered, but she still is a different person now. The thing is this new person is no more Alicia than Maelle, as she has lived two roughly equal long lives as two different people. In addition to her life sucking outside of the Canvas, it's understandable why she would like to preserve the Canvas as well: she is half painted and half flesh.
However, the other ending is shown in a pretty optimistic light. Sure, the Expedition gives a last goodbye to Alicia, but it's presumably depicted in a way that should lend itself to interpreting that the family is finally healing. Alicia is still crippled, and for all we know, the only one in her family who still loves her is Renoir, but we could assume that healing from the death of Verso is all it takes for Clea and Aline to start supporting Alicia again. In this ending, Alicia seems all the fine she could be, but even the painted Verso admits to her that her only joy in life will be immersing herself in her own paintings; one thing that is rarely noted, however, is that Alicia may prefer literature to painting: her preferred way of escapism after the death of Verso is noted to be reading, and she seems to be somewhat seduced by the Writers (which is also part of the meta-narrative, but I digress). She is also the weakest Painter of the family, so it may be that, just like Verso preferred music, Maelle prefers writing; we also don't know if powers in one art are commutable with powers in the other, so painted Verso may be condemning Alicia to be a Painter to have a chance at her life not sucking.
>It would be like saying...
Exactly. Just to drive the meta-narrative point further home, at one point during the final boss, Renoir shouts out "ceci n'est pas un jeu!", which is pretty ironic but I think it puts into perspective the entire story of the game. 

In my opinion, the endings are about whether you value more the life of the Dessendre family, or the life of Lumière. Neither is necessarily wrong; it's kind of beautiful that a father would be willing to destroy an entire reality just to save his family, but his choice also hinges on the fact that, as an author, he does not see the characters of the painting as his equals.

>December
I mean, all we know about base reality is that the family's Manor is located in Paris, and that 33 of December was the date of Verso's death. We also know Painters have magic mystical powers, so I think it's safe to say it is an alternative world, roughly based in our reality, just like Lumière is roughly based in Paris.

>A life worth living
Well, the names of the Epilogues are "A Life to Love" for Verso's ending and "A Life to Paint" for Maelle's ending. In my opinion, one reflects love for life and reality, despite its hard to swallow truths and the fact that it sucks, and the other love for art, fiction and creation, even if it costs your life.
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Just finished the flying manor
Verso's soul tell us that he believe that beings in the canvas are just as alive as the ones outside of it. Personally I agree with that but I would still prefer Verso's ending, because everyone dies at some point, every must have an end. Even if we save everyone in the canvas, the humans of Lumiere will die of old age but Verso's soul will forever stay alive against his will. You could just say 'oh kill him when the main cast die of old age' but that is just cruel because new humans will have come to life which include the kids of the main cast surely. The ideal ending would be that Alicia repaint the whole painting and somehow transfer the soul of the people from one canvas to another, but I don't know if this can happen maybe if you transfer the chroma directly. Then finish off Verso's soul. However life isn't perfect and this would also ignore one of the main message of the game being about coping with grief. In one ending, Alicia accept lost and has to move on. In the other ending, she just doesn't at whatever is the cost. The more I think about both endings the more I think Verso's ending is better, at least according to my own values and I still accept that it come at a cost and that the other end has its own merits especially since my theorical 'perfect ending' is based of Alicia's ending. Of course I still need to finish the game to see the endings for myself but I find it fascinating that my opinion keep changing the more I discover new stuff.

Also I remembered last thread's talk about Axon. There is a 4th axon that Simon killed, the one in old Lumiere. It has redhair and its outfit look like Clea's and its carrying part of the city on its back. I'm guessing it's about Renoir worrying that Clea is carrying so much responsabilities. Pretty direct but true since she's always called perfect and is the only one shown to be caring about the real world instead of the painting. She probably had it killed because she didn't like something about it.

>>278734
>he is a memory rather than a person
I would have agreed but having just done the flying manor, I now disagree. At the end, when you talk to him again he says more than a simple fragmant of memory would say. He's happy that his sister is free and it's what she wanted. Then proceed to say he value everything in the painting and that painting itself should be enjoyed as a process which echoed what a fragmant of soul of Renoir(the one in his old underwater prison) said. I think it's a literal part of him when he painted that is left in it. The creator of a work put his soul into his work and in the game's universe it's literal. Clea also had her soul in the canvas but when she went in she just took it back and repainted on the stuff she didn't like. She is hard to understand at time, she feel cold yet sometime show care in a weird way.
Now that I think about it, every single family member has a different opinion on painting. Renoir and Clea doesn't see their creation as being real life unlike Mother and Verso, but Clea and Mother(for her case, she changed to this as time went on) focus on the result and not the process. Which leave Alicia, which probably hasn't paint often because of low self-esteem.

>Alicia died with Verso in that fire
Maybe in the sense that she blamed herself so hard for this and probably felt her mother's rage that her self-esteem went away and she became so meek she wasn't really living anymore. I think it's a beautiful thing to think that Aline wanted Alicia to have a second chance to live the life she never had, but this falls apart for two reason. One she still resent Alicia to some degree since she made the painted version the way she was, even real Alicia came to that conclusion and felt bad someone was paying the price for her sins. Secondly she picked an 'old' couple to get suddenly pregnant, they didn't even wanted a kid but still loved it. This just forced Alicia/Maelle to live her life as an orphan at minimum but in the end she just bounced from family to family feeling like an outcast until Gustave took her in. Doesn't sound like a happy life for the most part. Mother probably wanted to prevent Alicia from helping real Renoir. I will admit my arguments aren't impregnable because She might have changed her mind about Alicia as time went on(yet never fixed painted Alicia) and maybe did not expect the life that Maelle would live. I remember on the paintress' 3rd phase she went to heal/protect one of my character before I just finished her off. I forgot if it was Maelle or Verso, there could be a deeper meaning behind it if it wasn't randomly picked.

>only one in her family who still loves her is Renoir
That's pretty harsh. Maybe Aline move on and accept Alicia in that ending. Clea is hard to understand so I don't blame anyone for not knowing what she's thinking. Personally I think Clea care but she's just abrasive as fuck about it, like a tsundere or a kuudere. In the endless tower, she seem happy that her sister is having fun and it's the only place I remember seeing Clea's soul and it talked like it was actually Clea talking(probably since its the soul of Clea as an adult and not the original kid soul that painted alongside Verso). She also told Alicia to make her own choice and not blindly follow either parents but rather trust in herself. She's so used to being the perfect one, she might find it hard to show emotions and thus weakness or least show a more tender side of her.
>she is the weakest painter of the family
I think that's because of her low self-esteem. She rarely tries painting so she has no experience doing it, even Renoir through the Axon tries to show Alice that her worst enemy is herself. The Axon is shown to be a recluse despite the nevrons working on her tower having some sort of social life. Everything seem to point at Alicia being stunted because of her own attitude toward herself. I like to that she's the best paintress while not being as perfect as Clea. In the hidden manor, she says that only Clea is good enough to repaint over the work of others but she has managed to repaint the monolith. She is the strongest unit in the game too. No creation of Clea or Renoir can do dmg in the range of millions yet alone a billion. She still beat her mother, her father and a modified painted Clea at the end of the day*. I think she's just a sensible soul who took too much because of her overflowing innocense when she was even younger talking about how she got tricked by the writers because she was too trusting. Innocense isn't a virtue, but it's highly valued in kids as a sign of purity, someone that hasn't been jaded and made cynical by real life, so it's painful that a kid got punished for it**.

>his choice also hinges on the fact that, as an author, he does not see the characters of the painting as his equals
I think it would have been emotionally stronger if he did. Not as equal, one is basically a god to the other, but at least a form of respect for life. Because it would have drive the point of sacrifice that is needed to save his wife. To me it feel like he's willing to let go of his a memento from his son to do it, but it would have been a much harder choice to make if it also implied killing people which include painted Verso who is someone beyond just a cheap copy of his son made by a delirious mother.

>December
We don't know much about their base reality, it could be a fantastic Paris as in 'its like our world but there is a super-natural cabal of artist who create universes' or rather it's a fantasy Paris where that kind of shit is public knowledge or maybe everyone can do it. I'm at least damn sure it's not a some deep metaphore and seeing people get inside the painting is just an unreliable narrator kind of thing because that would suck and I heard they are planning on making it a franchise.
On the topic of franchise, I hope they never touch Lumiere again and instead make each installment about a new form of art. **God, imagine if the 'real world' progress in technology and the final entry is about video games that will get fucky as fuck with all the meta-narrative opportunities. Sadly it will be hard for them to pull the kind of twist like the transition between act2 and act3"

I'm off to kill Simon, hopefully 60m is enough for phase 2. I hope phase 3 don't fuck me up too hard.
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>>278700
>Eternal reminder that Lincoln wanted to ship all the niggers back to Africa, but the south wouldn't let him. 
Lincoln plans to send niggers elsewhere failed, because most of them had died when they were sent to shitholes like Hati. And because it was the niggers who had opposed leaving, because muh "colonialism and segregation". It wasn't the South's fault and decision, it was due to absolutists and free negro leaders who both disliked Lincoln's failed plans and didn't want to leave the US.
Just killed Simon, was easier than I thought. Normally they only show you the xp gain screen when you win not between phases, the devs probably thought it was going to be a funny joke to have the sole exception be during the hardest fucking boss ever. He said nothing but you could feel he was a total bro when he just *gave Verso his sword*. Tragic for him that his love one was painted Clea considering what real Clea did to her painted self was enough to cause her to kill herself as soon she regained a sliver of her free will. He at least died not knowing that and they are both free.
Yesterday I tried fighting him and he was just insane so I had to grind my Maelle by doing side content. I'll try to kill him 'properly' on the newgame+
Go write a blog, Jesus Christ. More black bars than a fed document.
>>278747
The ideal ending is one where the family truly heals while the Canvas is intact. The reason Maelle and Aline cannot just engage with the Canvas from time to time in a healthy manner is because Renoir is unable to trust them being responsible, so he is dead set on deleting the painting. I mean, he is right, but it's still a family tragedy because no one is willing to compromise and be mature about it all.
>Aline wanted Alicia to have a second chance to live the life she never had
Maybe subconsciously, but Aline is a fucking cunt. She does heal Maelle in the fight, but probably because I was not running Verso.
>Nuclear Maelle
Well, to be fair, she is able to Gommage or partially Gommage every unit in the game, regardless of whether they are her creations or being protected by the presence of another Painter. She is also the only one capable of Gommaging the painted Dessendre family, so she has the potential. Unfortunately, her ending seems to point out she is dying of overexposure pretty soon.
>I heard they are planning on making it a franchise
Fucking neat. I hope the next game is about the Writers and that we either get to play as them or Clea.
Be careful when you get to West Philadelphia, born and raised. On the playground is where I spent most of my days. and Chillin' out, maxin', relaxin all cool, And all shootin' some B-ball outside of the school.

Because  When a couple of guys who were up to no good, Started makin' trouble in my neighborhood.  Then  I got in one little fight and my mom got scared, And said "You're movin' with your auntie and uncle in Bel Air." 

After that I whistled for a cab, and when it came near, The license plate said "sneed" and it had dice in the mirror. If anything I could say that this cab was rare, But I thought "Nah forget it, Yo home to Bel Air." 

I  pulled up to  the house  about seven or eight, and I yelled to the cabby "Yo homes, smell ya later."  Looked at  my kingdom, I was finally there, To sit on my throne as the  Prince  of Bel Air. 
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>>278772
This takes me back
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Went back to Esquie's grotto before the final boss and talked to Francois and for once he admitted that Esquie was his friend. This stuff hit hard considering the ending where everyone just die. Gave me majora mask vibes of people saying good bye on the last night but that's mostly because I did it right before going to the final boss.
The boss fight itself was pretty epic even if Maelle one-shot every phase. I didn't see the mother intervention coming, I don't know if she did this to help Alicia or save Verso, I'd like to believe the former because she forgave her.

Renoir admit it's a hard choice, he doesn't disrespect the life of the people of the canvas. From what others said I thought he would be more condescending towards them but I got the attitude of a family having to put down the dog he loved because it had to be done. He still value the wellbeing of his family above all the life in the canvas but he does so without disregarding their existence as mere NPC from a canvas. I kept saying it but Alicia is too hard on herself and Renoir blew up saying she's still in the shadow of the worst day the family has seen and he doesn't want her suffocating from it. Despite him being the main antagonist he's the furthest thing away from a villain, you can feel he love his family a lot but will put the living members first to fix the family rather than live as a broken family. He also got lost in a painting before only to be saved by Aline so he knows the actual implication of it all. It came as a father who is afraid to lose another child rather than someone that want to keep his wife out of her delusions. When he lost and accepted his daughter's victory, he really look like someone who just lost another kid saying 'may you find your peace'. When Maelle says 'you can believe me, I'm not going away forever, I will just stay a while', the camera shows Verso's face feeling conflicted knowing she lied and will turn addicted to the canvas like her mother. I'd say asking for Verso's soul to be release was as much to make it easier for Alicia to leave as it is for himself. I think it's obvious but most proponent of his ending seem to make it all about respecting Verso both the soul and the painted one's will, yet to me it feel like a big brother that also care about his sister in the same Renoir did. Verso in his journal entry seem to want to get Julie back by helping Aline win. A lot has happened since but despite her basically torturing his sister and forcing him to live and see people he cared die, I have the feeling he still cared about her and had to set her free from the burden weighting on her soul too. During the final mission, Verso's soul said 'maybe I should keep going' and even before that Verso's soul obviously cared about the life in the canvas and seem he would keep going even if he's tired for their sake but for his little sister he would put her above the canvas thus echoing Renoir's priorities.

So in the end I still picked the ending I felt was best as my last posts but for a somewhat different reason. It's a good sign of the complexity of the endings if it keep inviting reflection. I switched from not wanting to condemn Verso's soul for an eternity in order for Alicia to have a temporary respite from real life. That still hold true, but I think that it's worse to waste both her father and her painted brother's concerns for her seeing how much they care for her. Not only that but I share Renoir belief that she deserve happiness in the real life too and, to paraphrase Verso, she doesn't need to be Maelle to be Maelle, Maelle will always be her even in the real life. She clearly lied to her father and wanted to live her life in the painting, so to me the endings were also either to lie to her father and become addicted like Aline or respect the promise she made to him. The actual ending where she cries telling him to abandon her again hit fucking hard; mirroring when she was left alone with his death. It's history repeating itself, he sacrificed himself again for his sister. The first time, she didn't appreciate his gift of life, hopefully she appreciate it this time and use her experience as Maelle to find happiness in real life. Sadly there isn't any in-between ending here since Renoir will still destroy the painting the moment Alicia came back. That one final hug from Esquie is to me the saddest scene in the whole game. Also Verso couldn't look Lune in the eyes in my ending, I wonder if it's because I fucked Sciel or because Verso feel he betrayed her since she was the one who wanted to save Lumiere the most; and tragically she only began living her life free from the shackles of her parents at the end of the game...

I think the epilogue's title 'Une vie a aimer' is all about Alicia learning to love herself and get her joie de vivre back. She learned to cope with grief but most important to grow as a person and accept herself. Fags who says she's suicidal are just projecting their bitterness on the ending they wouldn't have naturally picked. That being said I understand the other anon's concern about one ending being shown as better than the other since to me this one doesn't seem bad at all beyond losing friends from the canvas; it might sound like cope but 'they are alive in your heart' is the message I got from the ending both with Alicia hugging Esquie's plush and that final good bye from the expedition . I also feel the two endings turn the whole game into two completely different kind of stories; one is about a classic tale of heroism as in the good guys won and Lumiere is saved, the other is a personal tale about the growth of Alicia as a person.
I need to do the other ending, I will probably wait to let this one settle in. 

Truly a great game, a rare legit kamige from start to finish. Easy to give it a 10/10.
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