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Should a talented developer be supported in the hope that he will make a better game if he got higher budget?
>>265945 (OP) 
>higher budget
If he can't make his game with a smaller budget, he will not make it with more.
Replies: >>265975 >>265989
>>265974
I agree with this
But I am also at a point where I don't want to give developers any money because they will just disappoint me in the future
Replies: >>266061
>>265945 (OP) 
>Should a talented developer be supported in the hope that he will make a better game if he got higher budget?
Companies like Ubishit, EA, crAptivision, CDprojektRED proved us that a company goes to shit the very moment it starts getting "big". 
So no, i think that even talented developers shouldn't have a huge budget, but always work with the knowledge that a failure may be disastrous for the company, so that their priority is always making something that people actually want to play, rather than making globohomo trash and then tell their customers retarded shit like "hater gonna hate" or "you will buy it anyway lol"
Even absolute shit companies like EA and Ubishit were once good, think about that.
Replies: >>266030 >>266040
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>>265974
But even with a mediocre game, you can notice very good mechanics or smart design choices that would’ve been implemented better in an AAA.
Like in Slitterhead’s case, it’s the most creative indie game I ever played, the way they made the game go longer with reusing the same levels and managing to keep it interesting with different characters and perspectives isn’t something everyone can do. You’re talking about an obviously 9 hours game transformed to 20+ and still keeping it intact.
For example look at Shenmu 4 and how it played out in the end. I’m 100% it got higher budget than Slitterhead.
Replies: >>266012 >>266061
>>265989
She's cute.
>>265983
EA was never good.  They have been a ruthless predator buying out and destroying developers since the very beginning of their history.
I've come to view my support like the way a bank would being asked for a loan. Developers are not accountable to me at all and neither do they offer collateral. So, no.
It'd be a different story if there existed some sort of gamer's stockholder collation that could pressure developers and publishers the same way shareholding suits have been targeting every single half successful developer for decades.
Replies: >>266051
>>266030
I liked SSX Tricky
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>>266034
i likd nfs pro stret
>>266035
I liked NFS Shift because it felt like a completely different series.
Replies: >>266039 >>266049
>>266037
the pro street > shift small tangent was underappreciated and mistreated, like all ea games really, a real shame. pro street was cut down a bunch to meet deadlines, a lot of planned shit and assets were scrapped.
Replies: >>266049
>>265983
I doubt EA back then had same or at least similar developers we have now. I just blame change of times and jewification of industry rather than getting big.
Replies: >>266049
>>266030
>EA was never good
Wrong, lurk moar newfag
Replies: >>266049 >>266115
>>265945 (OP) 
Every "high-budget" game nowadays is risk-averse. Unless you're Hideo Kojima coasting by name alone, publishers won't allow someone like Keiichiro Toyama to experiment with whatever he wants. Also his biggest mistake was pricing the game at launch like $50 and not something like $40, and putting Denuvo.
>>266034
>>266035
>>266037
>>266039
>>266040
>>266041
>they published a game or two I liked therefore they were good
How did you all miss the point this badly? The moment those studios stopped shitting out profitable games conveyor belt style the whole studio got axed or merged and most of those devs you supported were out on the street while EA laughed all the way to the bank with your money. You have to be a special kind of retarded to defend EA in a thread about supporting devs hoping they will get a higher budget.
Replies: >>266050 >>266051
>>266049
not a single one of those posts says what you're "quoting" you are arguing against someone who doesn't exist and an argument that was never made. you are crazy.
>>266033
Why don't you look into forming some sort of coalition of blockholders with some kind of "voting trust" so that the collective will of the shareholders can be heard and represented? Like it or not, you do have to "buy" a "seat at the table". The question is, what companies would you be able to breach the minimum threshold of shares in order to actually be at meetings so you can directly influence them?
I, for one, would look into investing in such a coalition run by notjew anon, if it was focused on a company I actually gave a shit about influencing. Worst case scenario is I have to sell at a loss, though if it was at that point I'd at least try to hold out until line go up so I get something positive out of the whole ordeal. Unless I was totally certain it was heading toward bankruptcy then I would SELL SELL SELL. Probably wouldn't want to be influencing a company that I thought was going to end up in that latter scenario, though. Sounds like a lost cause.
>>266049
EA did produce some great games though. As far back as M.U.L.E. and The Bard's Tale. They at least developed SimCity, too. This is to say that the post being replied to made the statement that they were " never good ", which simply isn't true.
Replies: >>266079
>>265989
>>265975
>>265945 (OP) 
>Should a talented developer be supported in the hope that he will make a better game if he got higher budget?
No. You are under no obligation to buy anything from anyone unless they make a game that you actually want to buy.
>>266051
>Why don't you look into forming some sort of coalition of blockholders with some kind of "voting trust" so that the collective will of the shareholders can be heard and represented?
Lack of knowledge, funds, charisma, reach, and everything else that isn't coming to mind at the moment.
For example lets take >>266035 's NFS PS. If there were a mutual fund called Fuck Off Fag (FOF) who somehow convinced people to invest in them, not for financial gain but for better games-because other funds are able to offer the reverse. NFS PS was released in '07, at the time EA's stock was ~$55 a share, a then all time high until 2015, at the time I believe new games were $40 on release (It's been nearly 20 years, I can't recall when 60 became standard). In early '08 EA stated that NFS PS sold 5.5 million copies, should FOF convince 1% of those 5.5 million (An unrealistic amount) to offer up enough to buy one share each FOF would be in control of 55,000 shares. At the time EA had ~310,000,000 shares outstanding ( https://companiesmarketcap.com/electronic-arts/shares-outstanding/ ), I doubt 55 thousand is enough to be considered a major shareholder in a pond of 310 million. FOF would be looking at very long term planning, slowly accumulating shares over the years covering many publishers. Even if FOF found themselves in one of the big boy's seats, it'd still be the voice of a mutual fund over several institutional investors with far more power over many more industries (Blackrock and Vanguard hold 60+ million shares today when you add in their mutual fund's shares https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/EA/holders/ ).
Best case would probably be to buy up studios before publishers can get their hands on them. But then FOF would be stuck keeping a fire lit under their asses, because that's exactly what developers need to get products out the door.

Either way money is the only language that matters in this world, and refusing to give yours doesn't result in favorable outcomes. If gamers want something to change they're going to have to be the ones donning the suits, I'm personally too jaded to make that my life's mission.
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>>266034
>>266035
I liked Future Cop: LAPD

except for the retarded time limits
Replies: >>266104
>>266103
It pains me that we never got anything remotely close to this game again or a third Crusader title for that matter.
>>266034
>>266035
>>266041
Good for you, faggots.  I like Battlefield 2 and Timesplitters: Future Perfect myself.  That doesn't mean EA is a good company.  Learn the first thing about how they operate and what they have done to the industry.  Going all the way back to the '80s EA has been a fucking evil company that sabotages competitors (stealing the code to Bethesda's Gridiron sequel and putting it in Madden, trying to bury Origin Systems in a frivolous litigation) or, once they got big enough, sucking the life out of devs with unreasonable demands after publication agreements (Bullfrog, Westwood, DICE, Free Radical Design, the list is enormous).  It's incredible that I even have to explain this to people who ought to know half a shit about the games industry, or more hilariously get called a "newfag" for pointing it out.
Replies: >>266225 >>268576
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Would a list help you understand more clearly?  This is very relevant to this thread so that people understand what the money is actually supporting when they purchase a game with megapublisher involvement.  Here's an old copypaste that isn't even comprehensive:
Late ‘80s: EA had files frivolous lawsuit against Origin. Forced into a costly out-of-court settlement, Origin execs asked Trip Hawkins why he had allowed the suit; he responded, "This is just business. This is the way we're going to win."
1994: EA pressures Bullfrog to rush Ultima VIII: Pagan. Richard Garriott claims the game was "forcibly badly slashed & shipped", "cutting out huge swathes of the game all the way to the point where the cloth map was completely unrelated to the map of the real game because we threw out so many bits and pieces of it." The resulting game was viewed by series fans as a disappointment.
1995 - EA pressures Bullfrog to rush Magic Carpet II to market over the objections of Peter Molyneux, resulting in a buggy game.
1998 - EA acquires Westwood Studios. Many Westwood employees quit in protest.
1998 - EA acquires Virgin Interactive. Remember them? They used to make games based on Disney movies, as well as that 7up Cool Spot game. Well, they used to. They were currently working on an anticipated and controversial game called Thrill Kill. When EA acquired Virgin, they declared Thrill Kill too violent to be released, and killed it. They wouldn't even sell the game to another publisher, either.
1999 - EA pressures Origin Systems to cut corners and rush Ultima IX: Ascension to market, over the objections of the development team, resulting in a buggy game that many fans felt was unfinished. How did EA respond to the game's poor reception? They canceled all of Origin's planned projects and forced the developer to relocate, despite that many of their employees couldn't due to their family. Origin Systems limped on until 2004 when it died. Did you like the Ultima, Wing Commander, or Jane's Flight Sim series? Sucks to be you. Wing Commander hasn't existed since (save for Wing Commander Arena, which is nothing like the earlier games), and the only Ultima games released were a few Free to Play titles.
1999 - After being one of Sega's staunchest supporters for years, EA shows the Sega Dreamcast virtually zero attention. If you got a Dreamcast and were hoping to enjoy EA's latest big game, you were probably out of luck.
2000 - Westwood Studios' Nox, which was intended to be a multiplayer magical combat game inspired by Gauntlet, Magic the Gathering and Mortal Kombat, was released as a straightforward RPG at EA's insistence. But, hey! The game still turned out pretty good! Then EA got the IP rights to the game and removed server support for it, killing it.
2001 - EA closes developer Kesmai. Did you like the Air Warrior game series? Sucks to be you.
2001 - Bullfrog Studios merges with EA UK and is essentially shut down. Did you like the Populous, Theme Park, or Syndicate series? Sucks to be you. No more games in these series have been released (aside from handheld ports).
2002 - EA pushes for long-running strategy series Command and Conquer to be made into an FPS for some reason, resulting in Command And Conquer: Renegade. When the game bombed, EA shut down Westwood Studios.
2004 - EA closes Maxis's Walnut Creek studios and integrated them into EA's Redwood City offices. Maxis's logo was subsequently seen minimized increasingly more on their own products as EA's branding took over. EA also meddled with the products' development, naturally.
2004 - Multiple EA employees sue EA for forcing them to work long hours without overtime pay. EA settled the lawsuit for $30 million.
2004 - EA signs an exclusive deal with the NFL, the NCAA, and just to make things complete, the Arena Football League. This means, for all intents and purposes, that they are the only company that can release major football games. I mean, other developers could, but what would the point be, when consumers clearly prefer the actual teams and players? Not only did this give EA what amounts to a monopoly, but it killed the NFL 2K series, NCAA Football 2K series, and NFL Fever series. Did you like those games? Sucks to be you.
2004ish: I'm not sure how to condense this article but EA is partly responsible for killing Free Radical Design
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-05-04-free-radical-vs-the-monsters
2005/2006: Many core DICE members quit after being pushed around by EA too much during Battlefield 2 development.
2006 - In Need For Speed: Carbon, EA tested the waters of charging players to not play their game. Players can pay money to unlock cars that are already in the game, instead of unlocking them the standard way. Later games in the series would continue to include this as well.
2008 - Spore gets shipped with SecuROM, a DRM software that limits the number of times you could install the game, despite that nowhere in the game's box or instructions are players notified of the software being present. It could've been worse, though - they were originally going to require that the game re-authenticate online every 10 days. On top of all of that, the game leaves files on the computer even after it is uninstalled. This has led to multiple class action lawsuits. Needless to say, all of this was over the objections of creator Will Wright.
2008 - Burnout Paradise gets DLC that gives gamers who pay an advantage against others. Additionally, the Big Surf Island expansion alters menus and stuff even if players haven't bought it, leading to menu selections that players can't use without getting a sales pitch for the expansion.
2009 - EA used NCAA players' likenesses in their games without the players' permission
2009 - Dragon-Age Origins adds a character into your camp who tries to sell you the expansion in-game. Because nothing helps to create immersion like a sales pitch for more game content!
2009 - EA closes Pandemic Studios. Did you like the Mercenaries, Full Spectrum Warrior, Star Wars: Battlefront, or Destroy All Humans series? Sucks to be you.
2009 - Madden NFL 10 nickels and dimes gamers with its Madden Ultimate Team mode.
2009 - NCAA 10's dynasty accelerators gave players with bigger wallets a way to bribe their way to get advantages over other players.
2009 - Changes to Battlefield Heroes in 2009 ensured that players essentially have to open their wallets to get better guns if they want to remain competitive.
2009 - The Sims 3 releases with a bunch of optional for-pay content on day one, very likely withheld from the game to make an extra buck.
2010 - EA removes the ability to play as the Taliban in Medal of Honor, an otherwise forgettable FPS, despite that it made sense in the context of the game's setting and story. 
2011 - "Your Mom Hates Dead Space 2" ad campaign.
2011 - EA pushes Bioware to rush Dragon Age II for release over the objections of developers. The result was a piss poor sequel.
2011 - Star Wars: The Old Republic was rushed to release. Many complained that the game was lacking in content.
2012 - Mass Effect 3's voice acting budget was slashed, causing characters to be cut. Additionally, executive meddling has been accused of being one of the causes for that game's disappointing ending. Oh, also, on-disc DLC. And to get all of the game's in-game expansion content, you're looking at spending $170. Thanks, EA!
2012/2013: Nintendo reaches out to EA for help in setting up online infrastructure for the Wii U. EA then tries to get Nintendo to use their Origin system for everything. When Nintendo declines EA not only backs out of all their future proposed Wii U ports but has developers in their employ blatantly lie about its capabilities and why they won't develop for it.
2013 - The latest Simcity release's "Always-Online" fiasco, with the publisher luring reviewers to write misleading reviews by requiring that early reviews be done in EA's own offices. And then when the servers went down at launch, EA doubled down on claims that the game really, really required that online connectivity and totally wasn't just for DRM purposes (which was almost certainly an outright lie).
2013 - Real Racing 3 is released as F2P, making gamers pay to reduce wait times (instead of just for, you know, actual content).
2013 - EA terminates Sims Social, Pet Society and SimCity Social on short notice, screwing over players who put money into in-game content only to find that it will soon be unusable.
>>266116
Very based, i wan to fuck shit up too.
>>266115
>That doesn't mean EA is a good company
Never said that, i just said they released good games
>Learn the first thing about how they operate and what they have done to the industry.
I know, at a certain point, due to browsing for almost two decades in these kind of threads. Doesn't mean they haven't released good games.
>It's incredible that I even have to explain this to people
And you are doing good but you got tunnel-vision, at least i never said they were good, just that they released good games. Seeing that you actually know your stuff i think it's not necessary to list the good games they released, which are plenty, but i do need to add that EA as a publisher and as a dev studio are usually combined hence why people who played the games do not mind admitting they released good games even when they sometimes only published it and had little to do other than budget and distribution.
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>>266030
>EA was never good
>>266115
>Good for you, faggots.  I like Battlefield 2 and Timesplitters: Future Perfect myself.  That doesn't mean EA is a good company.
>>266116
Alright, let's rephrase that:
EA used to release good games once.
 happy now?
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>>265945 (OP) 
>Should a talented developer be supported in the hope that he will make a better game if he got higher budget?
A talented developer should be supported if he releases a good game, only if the the game released is good, and not in the hope that he will "eventually" release something good.
>>266116
>2002 - EA pushes for long-running strategy series Command and Conquer to be made into an FPS for some reason, resulting in Command And Conquer: Renegade. When the game bombed, EA shut down Westwood Studios.
I like renegade's multiplayer a fuck ton
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