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Putin's given us the boot! Read about it here: https://zzzchan.xyz/news.html#66208b6a8fca3aefee4bf211


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Any ideas on how to shield internet discourse from highly proficient, Turing-Test-passing chatbots sicced on given economical, political and cultural goals set by an unchecked and unbalanced third party?
>>8993 (OP) 
community wireless networks brah
Cultivate a high-quality culture based on memes too powerful for bots to imitate.
>>8993 (OP) 
Chess captcha per-post.
>>8993 (OP) 
Cut off the internet.
PoW and captchas. Might be impossible to completely stop them, but we can make any big effort economically unattractive.
I think internet discussion will become a lot more private. The decay of the "public discourse" aspect of the internet is already something that people are noticing. The dead internet theory, for example, really just describes this. On one hand, bots are real, and are probably much more prevalent and convincing than before, but it's doubtful that they are the majority of users. I think a better explanation of this is that infrastructure is more hostile towards small "real" communities now. Search engines are really terrible, and the oldschool internet culture of HYPERTEXT AND LINKS EVERYWHERE has been replaced with SEO and login/paywall shittery. We still exist, we're still creating this network, but when a large proportion of those links inevitably cross the event horizon into the reddit-net, well, the network just stops working. And of course there are many people who are happy about this who wear funny hats.

Anyway, the bot threat will probably increase, and will lead public discussion sites to become unusable. Captchas are fine but we will probably start seeing a Captcha vs LLM arms race soon. I'm skeptical about the reasoning abilities of LLMs, but I can't imagine a reasonable captcha that would be conveniently solvable by 90% of a user base, but unsolvable for an LLM. The only option would be to use increasingly obscure captcha techniques. Sadly it seems like enough people can't even handle chess.

So the most immediate result of this will be more of what we're already seeing. Anons moving to tox, redditors moving to discord, normies remaining on their plantation. I don't think this is a solution, but it's where things are heading. I think maybe building larger private networks using something like IPFS might be the next step to restoring what used to exist here. 

>>10120
>PoW
An interesting idea, but isn't this just going to favor motivated actors? Crypto works becase users have balanced financial incentives to maintain the network. That's not the case for the average anon, but it is the case for spammers, shills, feds, etc. I could imagine it having similar effects as an upvote system, and that's pure cancer.
Replies: >>10149 >>10153
>>10124
Why do they need the LLM to reason? Most people don't reason and still post on mainstream sites.
Replies: >>10150
>>10149
I didn't say they did, and if you can you will see this.
Replies: >>10151
>>10150
Ah I'm retarded, sorry
>>10124
>public discourse
A few factors are in play about public discourse. For example free speech, anonymity and demographic.
Through out the history, most people are not used to public discourse. There were (and still are) announcements and advertisements. But discussion under public discourse had not been common. The reason is free speech and anonymity.
In smaller, more private groups, people engage in group think and conformation relative to the group. They engage in lots of verbal and non-verbal communication to sway the group into accepting their own ideas or themselves. Talking to a large group implies talking to people who don't like the speaker or his idea. The larger the group the more probable this is.
Everyone have some kind of edgy or secret ideas that people can't know. It is unknown whether those ideas are good or are truths. But the consequence of telling everyone about them is very bad. Therefore free speech cannot exist without anonymity.
With the internet, public discourse had its golden time with pseudonyms becoming popular and full anonymity that imageboards features. The free flowing of ideas is harmful to certain groups and bots is how they destroy them. Look at 4chan for example, the flooding is so bad that 90% of threads and 70% of replies are bots.
The other problem is demographic. Various policies and controls causes the new generation to be massively affected by social pressure or be simply removed from all kinds of free thinking (ie brainwashed). Thus they don't want to share as much of their ideas or even have anything spicy to say.
At the end, creating a private network is just dying a slow death. The only way out is to remove the ((( sources ))) of control, physically and completely.
I have been meaning to reply, but didn't have time.
Replies: >>10159 >>10884
>>10153
On one hand I think you're correct. At least it might serve as temporary life support, but without further action it's not sufficient. Either way, I don't see a clear path towards the direct solution, and I'm just considering the most likely scenario. Obviously if every anon had HAM radio, muh guns, and muh land, we would be in much better shape to assert influence. But that's not the case, as far as I can see. So then, we either accept our slow demise, or instead start preparing for the future. That way we may be able to pursue some ultimate solution.

You're also right about small/large group dynamics. I'm not going to argue that. What you're describing makes me think of a private forums, and tox, but I was imagining better infrastructure that might alleviate some issues. I don't have much time now, I'll try to describe it in better detail later if I can.
>>10120
proof of work token breaks sites
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>>10153
>At the end, creating a private network is just dying a slow death.
Better to 'Fight the Long Defeat' than to simply give in to Sauron, is it not my friend?
Replies: >>10885
>>10884
>give in to Sauron
Read the whole post.
If you think creating a private network is the most impactful action, the situation is much worse than this.
Replacement is happening on race,  physiological and most importantly on the level of mind.
1/2
Replies: >>10895
>>10885
What is the problem with being replaced? Big numbers doesn't mean it is right or the best, race, physiological state or mindset. Getting popular should not be a goal of an idea in itself.
The problem of getting replaced is the rejection and subsequently elimination. Of course, it is hard to completely remove a race or an idea from the world. But rejecting them and making their lives hard can be done. Pass a certain point, it becomes nearly impossible to recover from such a lost. Races, physiological states and ideas can be lost this way.
In other words, the power derived from being subscribed by the majority will be protected from possibilities of being toppled. For example, if "science = good", they only have to get some science dudes to push a poison vax and everybody takes it. There are people who are against this right now, but imagine getting more and more marginalized. Pass a certain point, dissidents cannot do anything without a miracle probability.
May write another post for kinds of replacements mentioned.
2/2
sorry for late reply, got things to do
Replies: >>10973
>>10120
>PoW and captchas
All posts signed with a private key and then you only view posts from private keys you or your friends trust. That's the nostr approach.

You also need decentralization though. Centralized services like twitter and reddit can serve any propaganda/bot content they want regardless of PoW, captchas, etc. because all the trust is in the servers.
Replies: >>10991
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https://archive.today/T01FO
>newfag creates controversial thread in sub, responds in a suspiciously verbose and vacuous way
>thread grows to over a hundred posts
>two exceptionally autistic regulars recognize subtle telltale chatgtp artifacts in op's posts
>op ACTUALLY ADMITS to it, then doubles down and ATTEMPTS TO JUSTIFY IT
I realize that the normienet, Reddit especially, is a hellscape of shills, bots, shillbots, and botshils. But HOLY SHIT the sheer naked shameless balls on this guy.

Assuming it's not a malfunctioning bot, I've never seen this grade of abject subhumanity before.
>>10940
ChatGPT does not have balls, ChatGPT is an artificial intelligence model developed and maintained by OpenAI and does not have physical anatomy like living beings.

Balls is a slang term describing the testicles, a part of the male genitalia in animals which is responsible for the production of sperm and androgens, primarily testosterone. In humans, testosterone is responsible for the development of male physical and psychological characteristics during puberty, including muscle mass, facial hair, increased height and the ability to produce sperm for the purposes of reproduction.
>>10941
>chatgpt
>>10940
There are "people" who snip their dicks off in the shithole, why would you think there is anything not subhuman?
>>10941
Lol.
You'll Never Be A Real Boy
>>10940
>asks chatgpt a political question
>omg i agree with everything it says it's like it read my mind omg chatpt is so smart
People are so bluepilled they don't realize what's happening is that they've been programmed with the exact same political propaganda as chatgpt.
Replies: >>10972
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>>10941
>>10947
Assuming it's not another lie the reality is much more pathetic than chatbots autoshilling a forum. It appears to be a human, possibly even one that isn't a professional shill, who habitually relies on chatbots to bulk up his hand-edited posts, and when caught red-handed, does not slink off in shame.

Basically the equivalent of a student who plagiarizes homework, but when caught, attempts to convince the teacher it's a legitimate study technique.
Replies: >>10983
>>10895
Not them but the rich would literally genocide poor people, aka 98 percent of the population, if robots replaced every job.
Replies: >>10980 >>10983
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>>10973
Barring actual "'strong'/'general' AI", if that were going to happen, it would've happened a long time ago, because of what so-called "automation" actually is.

Since the "Industrial Age" began in the 1700s, human labor productivity has doubled so many times that
>98 percent of the
labor force could simply stop working and be supported by the remaining 2%, or hours worked by all could be slashed to 2%, if similar per-capita levels of production were deemed sufficient.
Replies: >>10982
>>10980
Says who they have to kill us fast? The standard of living has only dropped since circa 1970ish and the food ain't getting more healthy.
Replies: >>10987
>>10972
>the reality is much more pathetic than chatbots autoshilling a forum
I don't know who thought that. I agree it looks like this dude copied and pasted chatgpt responses into reddit posts to get upvotes. And he gets upvotes because reddit is all about being rewarded for expressing the "correct" opinions, and nobody expresses the "correct" opinions better than a chatbot specifically programmed for that purpose.

>relies on chatbots to bulk up his hand-edited posts
I see it more like an NPC stumbled onto a way to farm internet points by feeding the output of one propaganda tool into another. It's like a cheat code for reddit.

>>10973
>the rich would literally genocide poor people, aka 98 percent of the population, if robots replaced every job.
My sweet summer child you talk like they havrn't already started. Why do you think they are sterilizing schoolchildren with crosssex hormones and tried to inject everyone with an experimental "vaccine". And watch out for ukraine, ww3 won't be fought with nukes it will just be an excuse to send millions of breeding age men to die in trenches.
Replies: >>10987
>>10982
>>10983
I've never been able to take depopulation conspiracies seriously, even when TPtB openly spout "muh overpopulation, muh degrowth" propaganda, given the actual results of the policies they push worldwide.

IMHO the stuff you mentioned and other things (open borders, urbanization, deregulation, atomization) point a true agenda of maximum population, but at minimum quality of life.

Basically "solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short", but in volume.
>>10987
Open borders is just for the purpose of D&C of places that are homogeneous. But when the time comes, they will destroy the immigrants as well.
Replies: >>10992
>>10987
>I've never been able to take depopulation conspiracies seriously
I'm not saying that they're having great success. All evidence points to the fact that they are trying though.

>>10901
>All posts signed with a private key and then you only view posts from private keys you or your friends trust. That's the nostr approach.
bitmessage did this as well.
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>>10988
See? They'll just sink their houses. They're already thinking ahead.
>>10987
>I've never been able to take depopulation conspiracies seriously, even when TPtB openly spout "muh overpopulation, muh degrowth" propaganda, given the actual results of the policies they push worldwide.
Well to begin with, I don't think the globalist kikes care what you (or anyone) think, as long as you don't try to stop them. Also, it's only the White population they're trying to genocide, primarily because White males are literally the only major roadblock standing in their way to complete world domination. Get ride of White males, problem solved.

All that would be left for them then would be the Chinese, and I'm pretty sure the kikes feel they would quickly have them in the bag with jewgold, once Whitey was out of the picture. The browns and muds are of little significance in the global scale of things of course.
Replies: >>13217
I don't think you understand the level of contempt the elites have for the unwashed masses. Throughout history, the idea of getting rid of the "rabble" has always been prevalent among the aristocrats, but was always deterred by simple realities such as "Who will grow our food" or "Who will fight our wars". Once automation takes over, those arguments will no longer hold weight and whomever is in power at that time will be able to genocide the undesirables without the pesky repercussions those actions would have today.
Replies: >>11016
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>>11015
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Some lame ass bots were all like herp derp and then this jew shows up with demands.
Replies: >>13184
My gut tells me that 4chin is pretty much overrun with bots already. How could I go and test this empirically?
Replies: >>13181
>>13180
My advice? If you're familiar with LLMs and the associated technology, I would build something that compares LLM (and other "AI"-related stuff) outputs out genuine human posts.

Also, I suggest looking up some shitty "AI detection" services, specifically the ones that offer you services on "making AI undetectable,", and analyze their scrambled prompts too- if their services are free that is. Their actual detection tools are hot-fucking-garbage, but clearly their market is not revealing AI, but making it more-obfuscated, so if you can make something that can sniff out obfuscated output, you can really put a hole in these "undetectable" bot-posters.

On the surface. I've noticed that chatGPT-prompted posts often are built like a school paper: They start off with what they want, they explain their piece, and then reiterate it at the end. Emojis can be there, but that's more common for Google's AI-bot (whatever it's called nowadays) than chatGPT.

Human posts are unstructured and spontaneous. Just questions and answers, context is there but it's not structured like a research paper or a journo's article.

Also. 4chins has been bot-spammed for a least a decade. There's a repost somewhere that showed how the glownogs fucked up and set their bot to post on literally -all- boards when it was meant for either /mu/ or /lit/ that day.
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>>11070
>Muh internets ids will prevent AI botting!
Meanwhile in reality gobberment/corporations would be issuing free IDs to their own official bots while everyone else get their balls firmly grasped by them.
Replies: >>13185 >>13217
>>13184
Just like they do with captchas now, including having multiple tiers of good goy social credit score so the biggest NPCs who are logged into a google account and have no privacy extensions and all privacy settings on default almost always get one-click captchas.
>>11007
>I don't think the globalist kikes care what you (or anyone) think
If all the propaganda and censorship was unnecessary then they wouldn't be doing it.

>it's only the White population they're trying to genocide
That's not true they're doing this shit everywhere. They're flooding asia with indians, flooding india with arabs, flooding europe with blacks. You only think it is specifically targeting whites because that's what you see first hand.

>>13184
>Meanwhile in reality gobberment/corporations would be issuing free IDs to their own official bots while everyone else get their balls firmly grasped by them.
Using public/private keys and web of trust would work though. You don't even have to give up anonymity because with zero knowledge proofs you can confirm that somebody has a minimum level of trust or a member of a trusted group without knowing who they are. And as long as it is a distributed network the values can't be fucked with either.
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