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What do you think? Any problems? What would you change? Is there anything you don't like about current keyboard layouts or keyboard designs (besides switches)? Any symbols that you use often and would want to be on the keyboard?
>>7854 (OP) 
>no numpad 
Instant trash.
Replies: >>7856 >>8164
Good way to reveal that you didn't read anything.
enter shouldn't be besides backspace
the last thing you want to do is send something you want to delete
Replies: >>7859
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>>7854 (OP) 
>Is there anything you don't like about current keyboard layouts 
Everything. No, it's not hyperbole, I do mean everything, it's hard to even know where to start. First of all, it doesn't fit the human hand at all. The staggering is bad, having to keep your hands close together sucks. The thumbs are wasted, being used exclusively for the space bar and maybe alt, while the enter and backspace keys are very far away and modifiers are uncomfortable to reach. In the case of keyboards with nav clusters and numpads, it gets even more fucktarded, because you have to choose between keeping your mouse way to the right (since most people are right-handed and all of that crap is in the way, when it should be on the left, or in a separate peripheral), or the keyboard has to be way off-center with the monitor, so your wrists and/or arms always have to be bent to the left. Your wrists also rest flat down, which is also asking for trouble. It also doesn't take into account that different fingers have different lengths and different levels of strength, which can be solved by having keycaps of different heights and maybe even lighter switches as well. 

The key well design that you can see in the Kinesis Advantage 2 (the 360 is a newer one that is a split design, unlike the original, that is a single unit) is a good example of sculpting that makes keys easier to reach, though most ergonomic keyboards are completely flat, and therefore also complete shit. The Keyboardio is one that I found out about more recently, but it has thumb clusters in an arc form, and I think that may be better, but it doesn't have the key wells (though the keys are sculpted, so it should still be good). There's also the Maltron, which is what the Kinesis Advantage is based on, but it's also expensive, except it's built like shit, from what I hear. There's also the Dactyl Manuform, which is 3D-printed. Really, you have to do your own research to know what to get. They are all expensive, and there aren't many good designs out there.

This also applies to the actual layouts.  Of course, Qwerty is complete dog shit, but even the more common alternative layouts were designed by morons, as immediately proven by the fact that the letter 'a', one of the most common letters in almost any language, is under the left finger, the absolutely worst finger (weakest and shorter, and also even on the weaker hand for most people), even in Dvorak, Colemak and Workman. BEAKL ( https://ieants.cc/beakl/layouts.php#beakl-layouts ) is the only sane option that I know of. There are multiple designs because I guess the people making it are looking for perfection but don't have a final layout. But the design principles are good, though of course, it's not in any OS, so you have to add it yourself or do it through keyboard firmware. It bases itself on how easy each key is to reach, combined with how common each character is (pic related https://ieants.cc/images/kb-keyboard_effort_grid_20180712.png ).

Maybe someone else here knows another good layout. The more common ones are all shit, though (but still better than Qwerty, which is not difficult).
Replies: >>7859 >>8163
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Separating them like pic related makes pressing any button in-between extremely "dangerous" though. I have a keyboard with the hyphen and asterisk inbetween them and it's just the worst design I've ever seen.

I've never felt any kind of problems with the way the alphanumerical keys are laid out in a QWERTY keyboard so I didn't change them.
>>7854 (OP) 
You have made many fantastic changes in my opinion. Many of the changes are much more logical and would be easier to find by feel as well as memorize. The repositioning of the "page up, page down, home end" area is a real masterstroke. I'm in my 30s and when I went to school our computers class wasn't very good. The typing class wasn't very strict, and therefore I never learned how to type properly with my right hand. I only use 3-4 fingers on that hand. I also don't type properly with my left hand either. I really wish I could teach myself to type properly but my right hand just doesn't want to do it. I've always wanted to take on a new keyboard layout because it might give me an opportunity to rewire my brain for better typing. Again, nice improvements.
I like the idea of dedicated OS control keys. No OS has a dedicated control center/panel that's good. Windows and Apple are far from their maximum potential but have the right. Linux and BSDs are a joke.
Replies: >>7866
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Replies: >>7865 >>7870
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Your fingers aren't horizontal though.
Replies: >>8027
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>dedicated OS control keys
Well, the "Windows key" is technically exactly that isn't it? On Windows it opens the taskbar panel by itself, win+R opens a window that lets you run programs by name, win+M minimizes all windows and win+D shows desktop, win+E opens file explorer, win+L locks your desktop and brings you to the login screen.

The way keyboard keys ended up being used is wrong and broken in many ways. The Windows key is barely used at all. The function keys at the top seem as if they're designed to be dedicated user-defined keys. But instead they do all kinds of things, some of which are semi-standard and pseudo-OS-level like F11 for full-screen, and some are OS-level like alt+F4 to force close windows. The OS also reacts to some shortcuts that use neither the windows key nor function keys, like Ctrl+Alt+Del, and Windows does this extremely obnoxious thing where it focuses (and sometimes toggles on/off) the top menu bar on a window when you press Alt, the program has to intercept the key press to prevent it.

The way it should have been is:
> Win+key = all OS-level commands
> Ctrl/Alt/Shift+key = program-specific commands, especially alt which is not used for text
> Function keys = user-defined functions/macros
Instead the shortcuts we have are scattered all over everything and keyboards ship with "epic gamer macro keys" because there's nothing in the keyboard that can reliably be used for that. There's some keys dedicated to certain behavior but nobody uses them (like pause/break and the menu key), I think because their purpose and behavior is not well defined, there's just too many keys, and programs have so varied functionality that it's easier to just use regular Ctrl+X style shortcuts.

If I didn't care about compatibility with current operating systems and programs and user habits, I would try something like pic related.
Replies: >>7868 >>8047
Super not being used is a good thing. Programs already use ctrl and alt, so you can't bind things to those without conflicting with other bindings, but you have super. Problem is that it's in a bad position in shitty normal keyboards (but with custom firmware, you can swap it with alt). Still, it's only one unused modifier, it would be good to have at least two, one for custom bindings in specific programs and one for global bindings, like window management stuff. Of course, you can also make bindings for other bindings. Like using a binding to use xdotool to do a binding for something else, so you can have an alternative for it even without changing the original. You can also add conditions to make the binding do something different depending on the program.
I learned one of the carpalx layouts but I don't use it. I kinda gave up after I got to 70wpm because making gains after that seemed too hard. 

Typing this post with it though.
I saw a martial artist on YouTube >10 years ago, his fingers actually were horizontal, they were deformed from him stabbing into pots of rice as part of his body hardening regimen
pretty cool OP, I've met a few programmers with their own keyboard layouts. Here are some of my thoughts:

I think with both opening and closing brackets on one key, it might be hard to remember whether shift is for opening or closing brackets.

The ? and ! keys are too far to hit while typing out sentences

Are you making your own keyboard or just rebinding the layout? I would remove the gap before the f14-23 keys. It makes it much easier to reach without looking at the keyboard, and being past the larger do alt and ctrl keys is more than enough to make them stand out.
Replies: >>8047
>might be hard to remember whether shift is for opening or closing brackets
My current keyboard has <> on the same key and it has never been an issue. All I have to remember is to hold shift when closing it, which feels natural to me. I don't know if it's better though.

>The ? and ! keys are too far to hit while typing out sentences
I thought it would be fine since ! is normally on the 1 key anyway which is only one key over, but you could be right. You could shift the symbols on the top left around a bit, maybe # and @ could be on the left-most key.

>Are you making your own keyboard or just rebinding the layout?
I'd like to make the keyboard in OP pic but I don't know how. I think it would be a huge pain to learn without proper labels on the key caps, and almost no common keyboard has the same button placement anyway (as in same modifier/mode button placements/sizes). I made it with the interest of trying it out in mind though.

I wouldn't try to make >>7866 because operating systems and programs aren't made for it, it's something I'd only consider if I was also making a new OS. It's the "from now on let's all agree on how the keyboard should be used" layout.
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>>7854 (OP) 
DIY keyboard designs are on the rise, so it's best to consider looking into a better layout (or even design one yourself) than the old keyboard layout (even without the numpad). It is expensive and requires certain soldering tools and experience, but it's worthwhile for comfier hands. There's still the classic keyboard layouts if you still prefer the classic designs (like the Mysterium keyboard's design files that has a GPLv3 license).  too bad a lot of the search results on them are from leddit
Replies: >>8238 >>8243
I really like the degrees and bullet characters being on the keyboard. 
What do people use the numpad for outside of data entry?
This is what I use to remap some modifiers to make emacs more ergonomic.
partial default modifier_keys xkb_symbols "one" {
    include "us"
    name[Group1] = "English US (Custom)";

    key <CAPS> { [ Alt_L ] };
    key <LALT> { [ Control_L, Control_L ] };
    key <LCTL> { [ Caps_Lock ] };

    key <RALT> { [ Control_R, Control_R ] };
    key <RCTL> { [ Alt_R, Meta_R ] };
>>7854 (OP) 
My dream keyboard would be pretty similar to this, but I would add a dedicated copy, paste and  undo key. The problem Is that copy paste is not consistent across all platforms,


goddamn it, come on, I wasn't even halfway finished with my post.
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>>7854 (OP) 
My dream keyboard would be pretty similar to this, but I would add dedicated copy/paste and undo/redo keys. The problem is that copy paste commands are not consistent across all platforms.

The Dactyl is as nice keyboard, it just happens to be rather hard to get. Best way to get it, is have (or find someone with) a 3D printer, and handwire it. I've been playing with stenograph keyboards, specifically the Steko (pic related).  it's trickier than typing right now, but I hope I can get the hang of it.

I got it, because I figured 1. why bother relearning my muscle memory on a keyboard if it's so standardized, and 2. Why go for all that effort on barely a 120WPM increase when I can go intial D speed at the 200s? I had to get a metal sharpie for the keys though, Fuck me, I hate chording on blank keys when I'm learning new input styles.
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