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Technology & Computing

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Close the board. The topic of "Technology & Computing" has ended. There's no point in going on anymore.

Replies: >>4341 >>4348 >>4422
>>4340 (OP) 
>niggers are everywhere
>therefore no point in going on anymore
Yes there is, deport them and gas whoever brought them in. The world going mad doesn't mean you have to.
>>4340 (OP) 
Agreed, 99% of this board is the tech support thread, just replace this board with a random indian phone number.
Replies: >>4349
Where is your real /tech/ thread?
The writing's been on the wall ever since they started teaching CS6.001 in Python, citing some bullshit about how "the reality of programming" is about gluing libraries together with no understanding. It's cultural decay, plain and simple, and it doesn't just affect /tech/.
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It was better when the newbie language was BASIC, because you didn't really use libraries.  There's not much room for that when you got 64 KB or less RAM.
Anyway a lot of BASIC dialects had some graphics & sound primitives, and that's all you really need to make a game.
Maybe the game will suck, but also the python games will suck, they're just using a supercomputer to suck intead of doing it simpler in 4 MHz and 64 KB.  Anyway after that you move to compiled language or assembler and make better games.
Replies: >>4352 >>4403 >>6703
>tfw when the current modern freeBASIC language are more verbose with additional redundant keywords than old BASIC.
why do they have to fuck it up so much?
Replies: >>4354
Same thing happening with C. Instead of cleaning up its flaws the committee adds more flaws.
Now they want to add more non-algorithmic optimizations with attributes becoming a part of the standard so they can stop making sense in 10 years and become obsolescent like the register keyword.

I understand adding modulo to BASIC though, that's sensible.
Is there even a C version of this book? There was a website that used Python instead of Lisp, too.
Replies: >>4376 >>4403
It was lisp only, then python and now javascript.
Replies: >>4385
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A C version would make much less sense given the type of language C is (javascript's probably better than python honestly).  And K&R2 already exists.
>Anyway a lot of BASIC dialects had some graphics & sound primitives, and that's all you really need to make a game.
The library is usually doing the same thing as the sound/graphical primitive.  I don't see what makes it worse.
>Anyway after that you move to compiled language or assembler and make better games.
You don't need to do that unless you care about performance, which shouldn't be a concern for most non-3d games, especially a beginner's game.  If it's running like shit there's probably something else wrong.
Replies: >>4405
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I was saying there isn't much room for libraries on 8-bit systems, so you'll end up learning more by having to implement your own stuff.  It doesn't much matter what you do on modern systems, every user has accepted that bloatmax is normal now, just as are endless OS updates.
Now as far as compiled languages go, they can be very useful on 8-bit computers.  Even if you're doing something like a text adventure, you might end up running out of memory (64KB is "high end", many had less).  So then you start compressing your text, and doing other space optimizations.  Well unfortunately now you've just slowed down your program...  OK granted this doesn't happen with small text adventures, but with bigger ones it can.  Ditto with other text games, you can run out of space if you start adding too many cool features to your turn-based simulator.  There are sometimes other ways to deal with that, like splitting the program up into pieces and loading the piece when it's needed (text RPG system "Eamon" does this).  But ultimately if you keep running into space problems, moving to compiled language or assembler will help.
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Reminder that Brendan Eich originally wanted to put Scheme in a web browser, but his bosses wanted him to make something with java-like syntax without giving him much time and he shat out javascript (while still trying to retain some features of scheme).
Imagine slapping together some shitty language because your boss didn't like Lisp's syntax, only for your stupid meme language you tossed together to fucking replace Scheme in the new SICP. I wonder how Brendan feels.
Replies: >>4409 >>4410 >>4419
And this is why being a professional programmer is evil. Only NEETgrammers are good and beautiful.
that feel of killing my boss and myself, what else.
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What programs have you written in Scheme?
>>4340 (OP) 
TL;DR? what exactly is the problem here? i dont really lurk this boards that much
why do people hate javashit? what exactly is wrong with it?
Replies: >>4427 >>4432
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I don't particularly care about it except for the fact that it's often used to track, spy, and exploit web browsers that have it enabled.  And it also slows things down, which can be a pain on older hardware.
In the 90's (before the web became completely subverted), javascript seemed kinda cool although it did crash Netscape 3 randomly, so I got used to turning it off.  Plus you didn't really need it for most sites back then.
An influential textbook written over three decades ago getting a """modern""" edition using a current-day popular shit faggot language. Stupid nigger cattle will use shit faggot languages like python. Stupid nigger cattle will see decent languages such as Scheme as """obsolete""". Stupid nigger cattle will prefer what is called """modern""". It's one of the reasons why python has become so popular in the last years. Nigger cattle.
Wait, is Javashit actually still around? I only know it as that thing that installs spyware on your computer when you visit an unscrupulous website.
Replies: >>4434
Nice bait. Also, install MIT/GNU Scheme:
Then work through SICP and don't forget the lectures:
If SICP is too hard, start with Simply Scheme:

Little Schemer, The Seasoned Schemer and The Reasoned Schemer are all great books.
Replies: >>4491
Why do people even write SICP in other languages? Apart from Forth and maybe Smalltalk (no personal experience with it), I can't think of another language that does lispy abstractions at all, never mind one that does it well.
Replies: >>4477
I've written LISP-y programs in C for bragging rights, that was basically it.
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<here, read and install a bunch of shit unrelated to your question
Thanks, I guess.
Replies: >>4494
ALSO install Gentoo. There is no way you aren't aware that JavaScript (JS) is the scripting language that is used in webdev, and that the web browser runs the JS code
In case anyone cares, here's the entire book in EPUB format (change the file extension). Would this still be a decent book for anybody who has never programmed at all? I'm wondering how Scheme (or LISP in general) could still be used outside of the book for a newfag.
Replies: >>6640 >>6641 >>6644
It won't be. Especially with javashit. Pick a C book and do all the exercises.
The style of the code is awful, they literally just translate (if x y z) to x ? y : z and turn cond into absurd ternary operator cascades. It's not like the original gets unhappened by the publication of this travesty, so just read the original instead.
>I'm wondering how Scheme (or LISP in general) could still be used outside of the book for a newfag.
I'm not sure I understand this question correctly, but Racket has a SICP mode. Lisp as a family is a nonsense notion; there is Common Lisp, Scheme, Clojure, Emacs Lisp, and a whole lot of irrelevant garbage that is "lispy" because it has lots of parentheses. CL is perfectly usable for productive work, and so is Clojure probably.
Make sure to use a good text editor like NeoVim, GNU Emacs or VSCodium  (Do not use VSCode because it's a botnet).

>Would this still be a decent book for anybody who has never programmed at all?
SICP (and the cancerous JS edition) is not good book for a beginner. Read something else instead and come back to it later (but read the real SICP and watch the lectures. use either MIT/GNU Scheme or Racket with sicp package). 

Which book your should read, depends on why you want to program:
>If you want to learn how a computer works, read Programming from the Ground Up: https://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/pgubook (it teaches you asm)
>If you want to learn C, read C Programming: A Modern Approach, 2nd Edition: http://knking.com/books/c2/ (read PPP2 for learning C++)
<Use these compiler flags for compiling your programs: -std=XX -Wall -Wextra -Wformat=2 -Wformat-truncation -fstack-protector-all -fverbose-asm -masm=intel -Og -g3 -ggdb (Make sure to set the standard you use.  Also, use a linter (cppcheck or splint. Or Clang's scan-build) and valgrind often)
>if you want to learn to make a game, read https://www.lua.org/pil/contents.html (and continue with Love2D)
>if you want to automate stuff, read https://automatetheboringstuff.com/ (teaches you Python. Learning Python is also good option if you want to make games with Godot+GDScript)

>I'm wondering how Scheme (or LISP in general) could still be used outside of the book for a newfag.
Install Racket. It comes with batteries. Common Lisp and Clojure are also practical lisps.

If you want to learn a Lisp, I recommend that you start with either Scheme or Common Lisp. For learning Scheme, I recommend Little Schemer and its sequel (Seasoned Schemer).
>CL: https://gigamonkeys.com/book/ + https://lispcookbook.github.io/cl-cookbook/
>Clojure: https://www.braveclojure.com/introduction/
If you want to learn Racket, start with Little Schemer (and optionally Seasoned Schemer) and continue with the Racket Guide (https://docs.racket-lang.org/guide/index.html) and this site: https://beautifulracket.com

Don't bother with How to Design Programs. It's not very good (except for middle school/high school kids who haven't programmed before).
Replies: >>6649
>not botnet
What is wrong with you nigger?
Replies: >>6658 >>6690
I wanted to recommend another GUI editor besides emacs. VSCodium is worse choice than NeoVIm and GNU Emacs. But it's better than other alternatives. And as far as I know VSCodium removed the telemetry shit.
Replies: >>6689
The MITniggers deleted the SICP page a few days ago. You can still read the book at: https://mitp-content-server.mit.edu/books/content/sectbyfn/books_pres_0/6515/sicp.zip/full-text/book/book.html or you can use web.archive.org
Vscodium is less bloated than neovim (also needs javascript plugins as they refuses vimscript) and of course emacs (operating system)
And many people don't want to configure text editor for a month
Maybe something like micro seems more based
Replies: >>6692
>depends on fucking node.js
>less bloat then vim
What the fuck are you on?
>emacs (operating system)
Then all three of them are the same, just because emacs can be an os doesn't mean it is. You can script a music player or email client in vscodium easy.
>most people don't want to configure text editors for a month
Most people aren't programmers. Out of the box vim is fully usable. Any beginner who think he needs to config an editor for a month has never used it. Beginners also don't need the features. It is microsoft conditioning that force ides on every college student. Then they think they have to waste 30% of screen space to see the file tree, all the time.
Replies: >>6693
With neovim you need to have node.js, python, lua, perl and anything else to enable basic plugins and it is promoted as a feature
With vim you don't need anything because it has built-in vimscript but is going to die

It's more about philosophy when most users of emacs doesn't want to follow KISS and try to do in emacs everything
Using vscodium as an email client is very unusually and I have found only one plugin that was created in 2022 

You can hide and show the file tree by pressing ctrl+b and there are also zen mode 
What do you propose to use instead? Terminal commands, file manager in a different window and then copy or imagine the filename? It's not so comfy
So after installing I need to find plugin for the file tree, plugin for autocomplete with Language Server Protocol (a simple idea that was not available before vscode in 2017) and to install it I have to install another plugin (by d git clone) and it cannot create smart defaults so I need to put something in ~/.vimrc or where is located now
then install some plugin for choosing theme and learn all of these shortcuts because nothing is shown by default after installing
Moreover is the key idea that without shortcuts and vimtutor you can do nothing and to respect these shortcuts you need to be able to use blind typing with ten fingers which is not so common around zoomers because they don't need to type something from paper now
Also default starting position cause you to have carpal tunnel syndrome
And that's it, now you can create your repository with dotfiles and forget about programming

Why should one waste time with configuring software at all?
Replies: >>6694 >>6698
>Why should one waste time with configuring software at all?
You want to be able to customize your tools to work the way you want.
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>You need to have nodejs
Where does it say nodejs?
>It's not so comfy
Tiling wm, find files in vim https://stackoverflow.com/questions/3554719/find-a-file-via-recursive-directory-search-in-vim , bash alias/function. Have you ever looked beyond nudev gui toddler screech about vim/emacs? No, you simply have never tried.
>plugins and config
As I said, vim out of the box is fully usable. You don't need plugins and ide features.
>carpal tunnel
Going around files shouldn't be that hard. vimtutor
>Why should one waste time with configuring software at all?
Why should one waste time programming? Everyone should just learn to use what others wrote. Better yet, they should own nothing and be happy about it. A smith takes care of his workplace and make it the most efficient for him. It is the respect of his work and the passion driving him to do smarted, better than those who work only for money.
The best piece of software is written using ed because you don't need to pretend being a hacker with colorful symbols visible or do anything aside from single task
Replies: >>6702
>links to blank page (i know it loads for your faggot good guy IP faggot thats besides the point)
>its ogre!
>accuses people of pretending to be a hacker
>while pretending to be a hacker
>it had a built in function to draw shit
thats basically just a library you stupid fucking boomer.
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