/tech/ - Technology

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>>265 (OP) 
>software affects people beyond productivity
Not sure what you are after. I will name one. Freedom.
Software differ from other tools by the nature of machine and programming language. Look at your screwdriver and you know accurately how it works. Look at binaries and you can't know for sure. This property has been exploited by various groups to lock-in, control and manipulate population.
Binaries are series of CPU instructions that are mostly compiled(translated) from human-read/writeable program languages. The CPU does what is written on the binary and it is very difficult to understand and modify binaries.
Using proprietary software (including pirating, paid and free as in beer) contribute to their monopoly and therefore control over everyone. Ever got asked to send only Word docs for job application? Group work on jewgle docs? Required to join chinkcord? Or outrageously having to deal with Windows Servers? There goes your freedom of choice.
You may wonder how do they control population, afterall they are just tools. If you look at how our lives depend on software and their applications, you will see the connection. USA 2020 election uese non-free software which is suspected to be an instrument of fraud. Whether there is fraud isn't important, the possibility of it being suspected is. Can any normal concerned voter look at what the machine is doing? No, because the source code is hidden.
A more direct example: Do you know what your computer is doing?
>Can an operating system push people towards creativity or make them lazy?
If I knew about free software when I was small, I could be a lot more creative.
>Can chat protocols or different kinds of message boards shape how people think and act?
Yes. Look around. Eg: discord trannies
>Does using a window manager or the raw virtual console benefit you as a person more than suffering through Gnome Shell?
Yes. I focus more on what I am doing, instead of the desktop.
>just personal tastes that don't affect anything?
Not just personal tastes. Everyone is connected. Every (software) choice affect your actions and thoughts, which affects others. This goes beyond monopoly and personal freedom.

>are all our software choices just personal tastes that don't affect anything
Yes. It doesn't matter what you do, you're a free spirit, wear rainbow dildos in your anus and mouth, it doesn't affect anything or anyone, stop telling other people what's good and what isn't you fucking nazi bigot.

On a serious note, this is an important topic that humans aren't ready to discuss yet (or anymore) because arguing against freedom of choice and the "subjectivity of good" is the worst offense you could make to anyone in current society.

>>269
>arguing against freedom of choice and the "subjectivity of good" is the worst offense 
That's due to a problem I discovered about freedom. Give them freedom and they always attack the facilities that makes freedom possible. Criminals commit crimes. Users try their best avoid free software. The hard to accept fact is most people are retarded normalfags, and they are blocking others from freedom along with (((them))).
Sage for off topic

>>265 (OP) 
I think you are confusing cause and effect. Software is just a tool to get a given task done. It doesn't affect people's personality, people's personality affects their choice of software. Their skill level obviously also does.
Specific software panders to specific mentalities so it's no suprise sometimes there is sometimes cult like behaviour in communities that evolve around certain pieces of software.

>>279
Might be true a few years back, when only people with brains can operate a computer. Choosing software that control users leads to the user being controlled. See how social media app users learn about wrongthink and fagshit? Chrome users not even knowing what urls are (google planning to hide url completely)?

>>265 (OP) 
>how do you think software affects people beyond productivity?
It's a prime industry for encouraging "of the time" people and going with the flow, especially anywhere outside desktop PCs and laptops. And even there shit's locked down and all you're allowed to do is use and consume, but rarely modify.
>Can an operating system push people towards creativity or make them lazy?
Outside of systems administration, no. You can develop software on any OS, for example. The critical factor is your attention span.
>Can chat protocols or different kinds of message boards shape how people think and act?
If the communications protocol or infrastructure that is powering it does some shady shit, there will be a chilling effect for people who think it might affect them negatively. This prevents criticism and opinions different from the norm being shared. As for kinds of message boards, it's again a people problem. COINTELPRO and other things like it aren't software related.
>wm, raw FB
Individual choice, I use a WM because DEs don't have anything necessary for my use case.
>personal tastes
Outside of strictly personal things, your choices are often not personal, which relates to freedom >>266 and >>269 mentioned. They are effected by your social environment. For example, you wouldn't need Discord to fully participate in /tech/, but your family/normalfag friends/work colleagues are a different matter. They also affect your social status. That might not say much to you, but a majority of people are pliable and take whatever shape is most convenient. So being seen as using "outdated programs" or being "that techie nut" is not desirable for them.

>>279
>Software is just a tool to get a given task done. It doesn't affect people's personality
For a lot of software, that is true. Shitty UI doesn't really have the power to affect somebody's personality. But there are a couple of examples. If some unfortunate retard uses Twitter as his primary social media platform, he might get desensitized to longform posting. Outside of personality, the notification spam and (1)s you get from thread refreshes impact your ability to focus on things. Because of how many programs do this, you are affected. A new alert might not seem much, but your animal brain definitely notices and not only does it break the flow of whatever you were doing, you will subconsciously be returning to the notion of this new thing that happened again and again.

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I've come to believe that nearly all software today is made to enslave. I say this because I have had the misfortune of attempting to use computers for a wide variety of personal and professional work, and have nearly always been disappointed by the shoddy workmanship of my peers. There is no perfect example which encompasses all of my complaints, instead I will describe best practices for designing modern software:

>GUI? A minefield of widgets. One wrong click and you'll undock all the windows, hang on an expensive operation, or just crash the program. Modals and notifications should pop up directly underneath the cursor, right before you're about to click what's under them. If a button is commonly used, it must be made small and surrounded by big buttons that do unrelated and annoying things. If two items are often used in sequence they must be placed as far away from each other as possible.

>Batch operations? You should rarely implement these, but if you must, be sure they are poorly designed, and unreasonably slow for what they do. Processing thirty items should take at least five seconds. Your users have never heard of moore's law and they certainly don't know how many operations per second their CPU can perform. Whatever you decide to do, make sure it strongly dissuades anyone from using it. Users need to know the joy of doing things by hand.

I swear you'll find at least half of these problems in any program for editing multimedia. Libre Office, Open Office, MSWord; Gimp, Inkscape, Photoshop; Godot, Unity, Unreal; Ardour, Audacity, Reaper. Ironically, developer tools are the most garbage software you'll ever come across. GCC is slow and diarrhetic. Most languages are niggerlicious. I shouldn't need to mention visual studio. All IDE's are bloated trash. Free or proprietary. It's all trash.

These problems won't magically disappear with hard work and innovation. The good goyim are happy with their shiny toys. The wise ones know that it's good job security. Employers don't need power users, they need loyal dependents. "I wish to God these calculations had been executed by steam." That's apparently what Babbage said when he decided to design the difference engine. We wanted to automate the mindless drudge work so that we could freely pursue more meaningful labour. Instead we have used these machines to automate all works of culture and innovation, at last making it possible convince the masses to love their slavery.

>>303
The complexity of modern software is also a factor that impacts quality in a negative way: Everything is so bloated it's more likely to win the lottery than creating something like that without major fuckups. Of course everything is supposed to be "user-friendly", i.e. 
made for normalniggers or phonefags. This adds another layer of  completely unecessary bloat.

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>>279
>I think you are confusing cause and effect. Software is just a tool to get a given task done. It doesn't affect people's personality, people's personality affects their choice of software.
>Specific software panders to specific mentalities so it's no suprise sometimes there is sometimes cult like behaviour in communities that evolve around certain pieces of software.
So does Reddit create Redditors or do Redditors create Reddit?

>>303
>>304
>ui design
Completely agree. What'd be an acceptable design then? For example: an image editing software. How'd you go about it?
>complexity
It is either natural or artificial. Some things are made intensionally difficult. Others are not. It is not always clear which is which. Speculative execution for example, it can be said to be a requirement for higher performance, but its complexity led to previously unimaginable security problems. Is it intentionally made to be difficult? idk
Much software can be made simpler, as well as a lot of hardware. ARM CPUs all follow their own way of initialization, Chink Krin Cores have a different partition scheme then other ARM processors used in Android phones. That is definitely man-made complexity horror.

>>303
>These problems won't magically disappear with hard work and innovation. The good goyim are happy with their shiny toys. The wise ones know that it's good job security. Employers don't need power users, they need loyal dependents
The good goyim are never going to contribute anything worthwhile or use anything except the most popular thing. The truth that nobody, especially in the FOSS space is willing to admit is that popular things are popular because they do something better than any alternative. If you try to criticize Linux or point out things that Windows does well, Linuxfags will lash out in autistic rage and won't listen, that's not the attitude of someone who makes great things, that's the attitude of someone who makes an image editor without basic features that even MS Paint has like the ability to draw rectangles.

You're not "wise" if you waste your life chasing shekels instead of pursuing greater heights and knowledge. "Employers" aren't going to hire people to do anything innovative or good. If you want to improve software then you need to work towards improving something, of course hard work isn't going to do anything and you're not going to innovate shit if you're working for some slave company making shitty proprietary toolkits for some internal company shit.

Let's take a hypothetical; the web is fucking garbage, how would you fix it? Do you think you can fix it by getting a job at Google? No you fucking can't. There's nowhere you can get employed in that will do anything at all towards that goal. If you want to fix the web then you make an alternative to it, and actually do a good job at it, not make some half assed piece of shit that's buggy and clumsy to use and has 5% of the expected features and then start screeching at people like some FOSS nigger when they tell you that your thing isn't good.

>>305
Reddit create Redditors more than the other way around.
People are grew up under different environments and have different personalities. But there is something about Redditors that I just can't quite put my finger on. The userbase of Reddit is very big. But most of them have that pleb trait, despite only a part of users should have such natural disposition.
>despite being a small% of the userbase, nearly all Redditors are retards

>>305
Redditors go to reddit because they don't bother to look beneath the surface. They use google because it's the most famous search engine, see reddit show up in the top 10 results frequently, find a few things they were looking for and think Reddit is where it ends. A lot of that mentality gathered in one place makes it what it the Reddit you know.
Many people have some kind of inhibition when it comes to using websites they don't know. They have their 10 sites they use and don't bother with anything. That's no suprise when everything is centralized and monopolized. Social media has replaced many actual websites. It already began 15 years ago when bands started abandoning their homepages for myspace. But you still had a internet of websites that were largely independent from another. I couldn't possibly count how many phpbb accounts I had in the early 2000s, everything was its own thing.
Also I notice how search engines have replaced the address bar for many people. Did the software do that to them? No. I use the same browsers, I search from the address bar too (when I do actual searches) but I still type URLs and use the address bar in a sane way. Even many very skilled colleagues don't seem to care that they are effectively proxying their entire browsing history through Google. But Google didn't make them like that, people are still fully responsible for their own laziness and lack of thought.
>>306
I like CLIs and Unix philosophy. But that is not to say that there weren't many great gui applications too in the 90's and early 2000's. It doesn't even matter which operating system environment you're looking at, there was nothing wrong with guis before they became bloated as fuck. I started noticing it a lot around 2003-2005, everything had to become more colorful. Everything had to take more space on the screen. It seems developers seemed to grow more and more tired with the default gui apis and all the developers started doing their own thing. I think the tipping point was when higher screen resolutions became the standard and 800x600 was phased out completely. Windows was always symptomatic of this, compare the general size of gui elements to those in XP, 7 and 10. Everyone had more screen space and faster PCs, so developers had more freedom to do dumb, flashy shit.

>>307
>popular things are popular because they do something better than any alternative
I rarely find this to be true. I think you missed some implications of what I said. I agree with you, to a point; the wise goy is not wise and the good goy is not good. My point is that software is being progressively lobotomized, and bloated to the point of being unsalvageable. Free or proprietary is irrelevant. It's time to burn the rot and start again.

>>309
>people are still fully responsible for their own laziness and lack of thought
Of course. But this is a two-way relationship. There may be a chance for them to come around and learn about the importance of freedom and privacy, but it is carefully extinguished in every scenario possible. Both of them are to be blamed.
>Google didn't make them like that
It did by setting it as the default for many browsers, by making the most popular browser, by predicting their users searches and by being fast at that. It is the same as drugs, drugs have addictive properties, drug makers and druggies should both be blamed.

>>310
>I think you missed some implications of what I said
I'm mostly just ranting because I hate everything and everyone.

>I rarely find this to be true.
I find it almost always to be true. While alternatives usually offer a solution to some of the problems the popular thing has and do certain things better, they almost never offer the same kind of things at the same capacity that the popular thing does.

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>>307
>muh rectangles fag again
Maybe people would listen to you if you complained about something that wasn't so stupid. You could talk about the GTK+ file picker, how glibc has intentionally fucked up static linking and made shipping cross-distro Linux binaries more difficult, how all the recent attempts at working around this suck, how X11 is a dumpster fire or how Linux audio is a mess, but no, it's muh rectangles. Nevermind that you can make rectangles in Gimp or stop being a nigger and install Krita, there just isn't one dedicated tool for drawing them and it's an incredibly minor problem compared to everything else wrong with Gimp.
I have a feeling that if you respond, your first instinct is to deflect by complaining that Linux prefers package managers over installer wizards. You probably also want to accuse me of being one of those autists who lashes out in rage and doesn't listen too. Point is, Windowsfags tend to make asses of themselves by complaining about blowing really minor shit out of proportion or whining that their new OS isn't exactly like Windows, then are shocked when they're called newfags and laughed at.
>>309
The way modern graphical programs work doesn't fit the Unix philosophy either, but fixing that would take creativity, will, and probably more borrowing from Plan 9 and Multics than some are comfortable with. Will this ever happen? Probably not. Software in general is overrun with cancer, /tech/ is unproductive, I am unproductive and haven't programmed shit in years, Suckless.org will continue doing their thing, the 9front people will continue doing their thing, Drew Devault will continue being a salty cunt, and unless someone steps up nothing will happen. I have a sinking feeling I'll have to start it myself, and rambling on /tech/ will do nothing.

Since there's talk of replacing the web in here, some of you guys might find the Gemini protocol interesting. https://gemini.circumlunar.space/

>>312
See >>313
>"same kind of things at the same capacity"
is not
>"same ways of doing specific kinds of things at the same capacity"
Different software behave differently, blindly catering to popular habits is not a strength.

>>313
>Maybe people would listen to you if you complained about something that wasn't so stupid
You're not even accepting the complaint as valid. I've been an "artist" since I was a kid and have been using graphics programs regularly my entire life, even my job is related to graphics, and I'm telling you that the ability to draw basic geometric shapes is essential to doing graphics work. Yet you keep insisting that noooo it's totally fine if you have to do some 4-step workaround process every time you want to draw a fucking rectangle. Why is so important that Gimp doesn't have a geometric shape drawing tool? It's possibly the absolutely simplest tool to implement, Gimp literally has 39 tools so it's not like they're afraid of clutter, they have like 6 fucking different brush tools and 7 selection tools. You even admit that Gimp has lots of problems but why is this particular problem so important to never fix? It's like you're offended at the mere suggestion that it's a problem and start barking about "l0l window$ n00bs gtf0", how can you expect to ever make software good this way?

Of course Linux and Gimp are full of problems, what did you expect me to do, list every single one of them in that sentence? I'd have needed to make several posts to fit them all in.

>>265 (OP) 
It's more that:
>A: Literally all of Gimp's other problems are more important than not having a square drawing tool and I'd rather they focused on those first
>B: Use Krita you fucking faggot

>>344
>you have problem with X program? well then use Y other program that's also filled with problems
I'll ask again, how can you expect to ever make software good this way?

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>>265 (OP) 
>ADD THE SQUARE TOOL
>HOW CAN YOU HAVE GOOD SOFTWARE IF YOU DON'T HAVE SQUARE TOOL
By prioritizing bigger problems first like Gimp's developers are finally doing. I'll take all of Gimp 2.99's refactoring, better support for color space (the biggest issue holding professionals back from using Gimp, not muh squares), and other improvements over a dinky square tool anyday.

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>>362
Firstly a geometric shape tool is much more fundamental and important to much more people than some color spaces, secondly "professionals" aren't going to give a shit about Gimp for a long long time when they can just pay $40 to get Affinity Photo which does everything 50 times better, thirdly it would take a day or two to add a geometric shape tool to the program, and fourthly Krita, the program you're suggesting as an alternative is the apex example of completely fucked up priorities.

Tried this? https://www.pinta-project.com/

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>when you e-beg but accidentally make your web service look worthless

>>265 (OP) 
>can something a person experiences affect them
Yes, absolutely. Like all things, if you get used to using computers to do things, you will get used to thinking in certain ways. This is particularly obvious when you talk about something like communication and expression of ideas, just look at twitterniggers making 140-char "hot takes" with 0 content vs imageboards where you have all the time in the world to make and edit a longpost.
This also pops up in programming languages. I have no idea what the hell a monad is other than some academic shit Haskellfags love and I can't imagine how it could make my code neater, but since people port them to other languages there's clearly some kind of benefit to it. I don't know, I think in terms of procedures and macros and state because those are the ways I've been using to tell a computer what to do for so long.

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Interesting to see some of the takes in this thread. I'm surprised how many have said that software does not affect people beyond productivity. This is provably false. Companies like Microsoft, Google, TikTok, Twitter, and Facebook have invested billions to study and manipulate this very effect. Software absolutely affects the psychology/thoughts/behavior of the user.

Bright flashy colors, big buttons, shiny objects, number of clicks, amount of text... I could go on and on. All of these things affect users' behavior and how individuals act with the machine and with each other via the machines. The user on an obscure chan site is in a completely different headspace than the user on Reddit, and this isn't just because of the structure of the site and voting system. The very buttons you click have an effect. COLOR has a profound effect on the user.

Regarding whether software can make a user more or less creative... that is a question I have often asked myself. I do believe Linux has the potential to make the user more creative depending on the configuration. Windows by comparison is more likely to trigger the coomer dopamine system in the user, and thus push the user towards other similar neural pathways. The Windows user may be more compelled to use sites like Reddit, Facebook... the interfaces are easy and familiar. Bright, friendly. Despite this, because of problems within Linux and the sometimes janky feel it has, I believe it is just as possible to remain productive and creative within Windows as with Linux. The Linux user may become obsessed with tweaking their environment to suit their needs, and then end up spending significant time tweaking and messing around within the system instead of focusing on the task they set out to do initially. For this reason I believe Windows remains the productivity king in many cases, for reasons similar to the one mentioned by the fellow going on about Gimp not having a rectangle tool.

Hm, this is an interesting topic. I do believe there is a concerted nefarious effort to cuck all systems and to corral and direct thought through the manipulation of the user interface, particularly through color, button size, shinyness, "button choices" (Microsoft in particular), and general options available. It is also very true that niggers and other low-IQs are ruining computing completely. Zoomers already have little grasp of what the computer is doing underneath the hood. I could go on more but I feel compelled to browse a bit and continue on later.

>how does software affect you
by making me want to bash wigger skulls into the pavement

>>6346
>spending significant time tweaking and messing around
lol, isn't pen and paper the productivity king pf the world? With computers, users may spend time on starting and troubleshooting problems. Do you honestly think Linux users wakes up every morning and start tweaking until night without working? Most tweaks are done once and that's it. Your reasoning sounds like the windows syndrome.
>be windows user
>tries linux
>oh no, it looks different
>how do I make it look/works like windows
>research into tweaks for this
>wow so many ways and possibility to tweak the system
>I am used to be not able to do this on windows
>conclude linux is not productive because tweaks
It is those tweaks that you claim time is wasted on that makes Linux productive. Once configured the system works for you in ways exactly you want it to. You get to fix where the screwdrivers are in your shop, for your workflow. Why do you think adapting your workflow to someone else configuration is better than bending the environment to your will?

>>6350
The communities around ricing are proof that many users gravitate towards endless tweaking. You are welcome to disagree but that is my experience. I'm not saying tweaking isn't useful or that it doesn't make one productive. Of course, it is precisely what allows Linux to be more productive. I was only pointing out that an established design has efficiencies of its own. My point is that if a user decides to start tweaking their Linux machine, and then ends up delving into learning how to edit dot files, coding, hours and hours on various forums, browsing around for various ideas from others... the user ends up spending more hours learning how to tweak their system to get it just right than they saved cumulatively over 5 years using a "locked" interface. All the little button presses, though time may have been saved, do not add up to tens of hours wasted. Again that isn't to say the user probably learned valuable things about how the system works along the course of learning to customize the system, but the base point remains that the pre-designed system saved the user more time.

>>6353
>ricing community
E-faggots waste their time no matter what they are doing. Your argument hinge on people not doing what they are supposed to do because they have an excuse. Rising can be a hobby but it is as good of an excuse as itchy back. Kids should just stay away from computers, lest they abandon their work.

>>6354
It is still proof that many users gravitate towards endless tweaking. You can try to handwave it away as "they are dumbshits and kids" but the fact remains that a large number of people develop the behavior. The other point I made about tweaking costing more time than it saves in many cases also still stands even if I concede your point about retards being retards regardless of OS. To me your posts come across as more linuxfag cope, trying to justify what ultimately are your personal tastes (which you are entitled to and do not require justification).

>>6357
>linuxfag cope
You are free to interpret or ignore it. I just found your reasoning flawed. Most tweaks takes 5 minutes once I learnt how to operate my system. They saved me a ton of shoulder pain. When I was on Windows I got persistent stiff neck and had to pinch it until it soften as I had to move between my mouse and keyboard too often. Then I learnt about dwm and "ricing" it took me only 5 minutes every time I want to. My hands are 99% on my keyboard now.

>>6358
In your case that makes a lot of sense. If it didn't take you long to get into tiling WM and it really helped your hands, then it was definitely beneficial for you. But that is for your use-case. That doesn't include photo and video editing, gaming, and many other programs. I wish I could get away with a clean linux system with a tiling WM and unlabeled keys on some nice keyboard, but that just hasn't worked out for me lately.

>>6359
I am running Gentoo. It takes time to setup but it is one of the cleanest distro around.

>>6346
>concerted nefarious effort to cuck all systems and to corral and direct thought through the manipulation of the user interface
It's not a concentrated effort outside of a small circle of silicon valley leftists who have had the iPhone imprinted on their brains.  They set the standard, and they all have the same views, and everyone copies them, but there is no official nefarious conspiracy because so much of the giant tech systems are just proles following orders.  And as you mentioned, there are legions of low-IQ subhumans who both enable and contribute to this system because they think it's the best way and can't conceive using anything else.

>>6353
>All the little button presses, though time may have been saved, do not add up to tens of hours wasted
They absolutely can and do, depending on what buttons are being pressed.  The simple inability to do things like save an image properly, use the keyboard to navigate, or drag things around logically already costs me time even when I'm using time-saving programs (dupeGuru is one such example; very useful for clearing out duplicates in my media library, but the interface doesn't have sane defaults and I spend a bit of time resizing windows whenever I use it).

>>6385
>there is no official nefarious conspiracy because so much of the giant tech systems are just proles following orders.
shitty take, you have shit opinions. i liked the gentoo guy better even though i disagreed with him.

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In addition to what zzzanons like >>6346 have said about ui influencing behavior, I'll add that in my personal experience, these influences are very significant. This is because we have attitudes which change slowly over time. Studies apparently find it takes about 30 minutes for a person to reach maximum focus. It takes a long time for me go from calmly watching the sun set or a fire die out to intense focus, working super fast to get a bunch done before a deadline. Slow software, either from animations, inefficiency, or bad ui, doesn't just slow productivity while I'm using it, it also slows my productivity after I use it. In my experience, the after-use effect is much more impactful than the during-use effect.

You can't beat this by willing yourself into being the ubermensch, just like you'll never beat an Olympic swimmer without years of training no matter how hard you try.

Other observations, after grinding through the documentation and installing Arch Linux for the first time (many years ago), I noticed I had become much better than my peers at paying attention in class without getting bored. 
Using linux over time has also inclined me to reading more text in general (and also error messages and man pages).

>>305
I find the presence of up and downvotes completely changes people's thinking process. Redditors tend to stop thinking for themselves.

>>6415
>no ur wrong
>"take"

>>6427
I learned internet debates are a waste of precious time long ago. I’m here to speak to a discerning audience, my points continue to stand without further bolstering. Your opinions are shit and I fart in your general direction.

>>6429
>debate is a waste of time
Modern debate is both sides shit on each other until one gives up. When the goal of debate is to find flaws in other's speech instead of coming to a grand truth, it is useless. Real debate is more of a discussion, both sides find difference in their observation and open completely to changing their minds, with the goal of searching the truth.
Describing why you hold a certain view also allow self improvement, it makes one to consider deeply their beliefs and be more certain of it if no fault can be found.

>>6430
>>6427
RETARD. As I have already stated, billions of dollars are spent on "nudge theory."
>there is no official nefarious conspiracy because so much of the giant tech systems are just proles following orders.
is false right on the face of it, i would be wasting my time to go further because you fail to do basic research or employ rudimentary critical thinking. take your booster and go to sleep.
https://expertprogrammanagement.com/2022/01/nudge-theory-explained/

>>6435
Hold you horse nigger, I don't have the same writing style.

>>6437
fair and you brought up reasonable points about the necessity of discussion while accurately pointing out the state of modern debate.

>>371
that expression looks more human then human.

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The simpler the design and the less resources used, the better. Programmers and users have become lazy, expecting latest fancy bloated GUI point & click no thinking about nothing, no consideration about the long-term consequences. One day maybe they wake up and find themselves in a CIA nigger prison like Terry described (but problably they just never wake up!)

>>8946
He was just bitching about DVD because he implemented the DVD filesystem when he was still sane and not the USB driver stack.
And he used ps/2 for mouse and keyboard for the same reason.
HE WAS RETARDED

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>>8999
I don't like USB either. It's a complicated specification, so all implementations are buggy (probably exploitable too), and it introduces lag in input devices. And basically I have no use for it, because all the devices I have worked fine (or better for keyboard/joystick) the older simpler way.
I don't really like CD/DVDs that much though. I like floppy disks, but basically nobody makes them anymore, at least not any of the quality that existed in the 80's and early 90's.

>>9000
>and it introduces lag in input devices.
You can get USB keyboard, mice and PS/2 adapters with more Hz.
The default of 125 Hz is already indistinguishable on a 60 Hz screen.
>I don't really like CD/DVDs that much though. I like floppy disks, but basically nobody makes them anymore, at least not any of the quality that existed in the 80's and early 90's.
Neither have any advantage over USB sticks. (I'm not even recommending USB sticks) Even if you consider that thumb drives don't live long, you can just save the data in a redundant way and it will still be many times faster than floppies.

>>9001
The input lag is measure in milliseconds, and there's no solution to lower it to what existed prior to USB, because USB itself is the overhead. Hz is another issue, not something that really matters to me because I don't play those modern 3D games. Think more of old 2D fighting games, where input lag fucks you.
Floppies have the advantage of not needing a USB stack. The disadvantage is they're slower and limited in capacity, but they're still good enough in the context of a 1980's or early 90's computer, where software and data aren't  ludicrously bloated like today.
Otherwise for bigger data, well I'm fine with a HDD connected over IDE or SCSI bus. I just never needed USB for anything.

>>9003
You can do something about usb input lag on Linux. This may introduce instability of the usb controller or the usb device. Don't do this over a usb hub, I have killed two usb hubs with this by overload/overheating it.
Add usbhid.quirks with always poll in kernel commandline, taken from https://github.com/sriemer/fix-linux-mouse

>>9003
>and there's no solution to lower it to what existed prior to USB
Well there are keyboards and mice that go 1000 Hz. Then the delay down to 1ms max. (can be anything from 0 to 1 ms because you don't know how the draw cycles and the usb pull cycle overlap)

>The input lag is measure in milliseconds
Hz is cycles per second. 
60 Hz (refresh rate of a common monitor) is 1/60=0.016666 aka 16.7 ms
125 Hz (refresh rate of a common USB input device, some may run at higher frequenzies up to 1000 Hz) is 8ms (again it's something between 0 and 8 ms, not 8 ms).
The way modern computing works is that you have the last renderd image on the screen. In order to render the next image, the program runs through all the input events that happened during the last draw cycle (whether they are interupts or usb doesn't matter here at all) and then renders the next image which is handed to the screen.
If you press a key (let's say 4 ms before the event loop/the next image that appears on your monitor) and the keypress gets pulled by the USB stack after the event loop of the program than it will be processed in the next gui program cycle later.
The chance that it misses is already low. If it does you'll have to wait out 1 frame. However if you press a key right after the event loop at the start of the render cycle with a magical ps/2 keyboard that has 0.000 ms delay, the same is true.
Human reaction time matters way more.

PS/2 devices themselves may buffer data and only send the interrupts in cycles. For example mouse movements. There is no real world event happening that you can equate mouse movements to anyway. So the entire PS/2 thesis is build up on an assumption that may not even be true for the device at hand.

>Think more of old 2D fighting games, where input lag fucks you.
Often these games run at low framerates because the hardware was shit back then and sometimes the developers themselves didn't give much of a shit causing extra lag.
You're being unreasonably nostalgic here.

>Floppies have the advantage of not needing a USB stack.
But they need a floppy drive and are loud, tiny and annoying.

>HDD connected over IDE or SCSI bus
It's called Nvme or SATA now, grandpa.

>>9006
Guess what, grandad's Apple II has less input latency that your modern gaming rig. :DDDD
https://danluu.com/keyboard-latency/
All you're doing is making things more complicated and bloated with USB. Terry Davis was right. Scaling down is better. Less lines of code is better.

>>9006
The link you posted talks about how keyboard boards in general are slower, the usb's polling wasn't even a big issue for anything except apple's keyboard. I wish people would read more than the first pharagraph before posting articles. Good read thought, i hope you will read it one day too.

>>9006
>125Hz and not triple buffered
ew

USB doesn't even have reliable latency.  It's bad enough to annoy people who use the default USB audio spec that takes its clock from the bus rather than the DAC.

>>9003
>Think more of old 2D fighting games, where input lag fucks you.
For someone who's autistic about lag in those games, I'd expect you to know that:
- Modern fighting games have multiple frames of input lag that is almost always due to the engine, which is almost always UE4.
- Old fighting games have a lot of unreactable stuff where milliseconds of input lag won't make a difference, or small input buffers/windows for connecting attacks.

But that would mean you couldn't bitch and moan into the wind.  If you're playing on an emulator (which you are because you're talking about USB), then you've already got some input lag due to the computer operating system and the emulator itself.  I've played old games that had more input lag than new games, too.

>>9020
>have multiple frames of input lag that is almost always due to the engine, which is almost always UE4.
Is UE really that bad?

>>9021
>>9020
I'd like to know if any /tech/nicians had worked with UE can attest to this. I worked with UE4 in the past, but I never got very far due to inexperience, the lack of meaningful tutorials that taught you how to use the damn engine, and just how confusing the entire process/system was.

I mean, I shouldn't expect it to work like gamemaker or construct, but damn, so many pieces to get shit working.

>>9017
Read it again, he specifically mentions Apple 2 and how they feel more responsive than any modern shits, even though their CPU have less transistors than modern keyboard. xD
And that's before even bringing in the lag of modern terminal emulators. It gets even more shitty than just the keyboard.

>>9020
I never played any modern games, so whatever. But still, reaction time in arcade systems can't have lag. Emulators of course are shit and keep getting shittier on their own, in addition to the shittiness introduced by modern hardware and OS.

>muh input lag
>no mention of Redditarch's runahead
It's one of the few good things the libretro trannies have put into their bloated nigger frontend, its AoT execution method may be a meme but it werks provided you have enough computer.
On that note, how much of a shitshow is MiSTer in regards to input lag when using actual system-appropriate input devices via SNAC?

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>>9083
I wouldn't buy the MISTer tbh. At that price I'd just get the real thing and be done with it. Either is pretty expensive right now, ever since the retro bubble happened (I guess youtube videos started this shit?) But since there's an economic meltdown coming, maybe I'll have opportunities to finally get some real 1980's gear. Been stacking silver bigly, so my savings will remain intact no matter how many banks go under.