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My mom just picked up a commodore PET that was given away for free by a relative :^)
Lets have a proper retro computing thread. 
Post about practical uses of this ancient computer hardware - how this simplistic architecture can be used as a learning tool.
Planned pojects: Restore this decayed machine.
Write Tetris in 6502 assembly.
Last edited by wizard
>>13347 (OP) 
Which year or architecture do you consider retro? Is 386 old enough?
Replies: >>13351
>>13348
386 is retro 'nuff in my book and propably very good for learning since it's so well documented - it was the original platform linux was wrotten for after all
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Also got a 286 from the same lady
Replies: >>13420
>Post about practical uses of this ancient computer hardware - how this simplistic architecture can be used as a learning tool.
Learning their assemblies and that's basically it. Old assemblies are simpler and some have better design than modern ones, they're good for starters, then you can move to more complex modern ones.
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>>13418
Ah yeah! Big heavy duty 16 bit system ISA slots and honkin full size bay HDD ftw. I bought a new 486 in the 90's as my first PC, but wish I'd just saved my money and got a cheapass used 286 instead. The older games are more comfy anyway.
Replies: >>13422 >>13450
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>>13420
I just turned the machine on and a tantal just soduku'd itself with a big bang.
Fuckin hell. That scared the shit out of me. At least it wasn't on the mainboard, but on the VGA card.
The PC itself seems to turn on with a beep. I have another 286 that I bought on Ebay a while ago that does not post beep. I figure I'll have to replace some RAM chips or something on that machine.
On this beast though, what woulf be the right course of action? Replace every tantal cap on the board?
Replies: >>13424
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This is my other 286. it's a dwarf in comparison. Only about half the size.
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>>13422
I guess you can just replace that one capacitor that blew up, and see if  the system boots up correctly. And then if you have time and money, replace any other caps that might fail.
Also if the board  has one of those old style batteries that's directly soldered to the board, it should be removed. Those will leak and destroy the PCB.
Replies: >>13452
Could I replace those tantal fuckers with MLCC?
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The PC works. Just the GPU with the exploded cap doesn't seem to. (Yes, I replaced it) 
Had to swap in the card of my mini compatible.
Are there any comprehensive repair/ troubleshooting guides? I can't find any of the old books on libgen.
Replies: >>15145
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Maybe BO could add a title "retro computing thread" or something to the OP pls?
>>13420
The PC is from 1990 btw. Quite late for a 286 I guess.
Replies: >>15179
I'm too scared to turn on the PET as of yet
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>>13424
Surprisingly the battery hasn't leaked yet. It's still got 1.5V
Can I replace it with a lithium button cell?
Replies: >>13455
>>13347 (OP) 
Guess now I'll have to write Tetris in x86 assembly
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Also got this lil VGA monitor.
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>>13452
Its nicad, so you can't replace it with a lithium button cell.
The board does simple trickle charging on it.
You could do a lot of work to keep it authentic, or replace it with a nimh pack.
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>>13448
So what do I do with this thing?
MSDOS is retarded and gay. Can't even see the partitions that are on the disk.
I can only blindly cycle through the various drive letters and hope it exists.
Any handy utilities you boomers can recommend, so I can have the basic functionalities that every unix on the planet would have out of the box?
Considering just making a backup from the hard drive and installing ELKS on there: 
https://github.com/ghaerr/elks
>>15145
You could fuck around with FreeDOS if you feel like it, or maybe try to see if it is happy with NetBSD.
Replies: >>15149
>>15146
No anon. I'm afraid this won't run on a 16bit 286
Replies: >>15150 >>15152
>>15149
Well, this is why I shouldn't have skimmed over the thread quickly instead of reading every word. FreeDOS can run even on the original IBM PC, and it should be at least somehow more capable than any other DOS. Or you could try your luck with Xenix, but that seems to border on esoteric computing.
Replies: >>15152
>>15149
>>15150
https://github.com/ghaerr/elks
>ELKS is a project providing a Linux-like OS for systems based on the Intel IA16 architecture (16-bit processors: 8086, 8088, 80188, 80186, 80286, NEC V20, V30 and compatibles). Such systems are ancient computers (IBM-PC XT / AT and clones) as well as more recent SBCs, SoCs, and FPGAs. ELKS supports networking and installation to HDD using both MINIX and FAT file systems.
Replies: >>15153 >>15159
>>15152
Yep. FreeDOS has a bunch of apps listed.
https://freedos.org/about/apps/
I want to dual boot ELKS and freeDOS
Eventually I might replace the hard drive with a CF card
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:^)
>>15152
>Linux-like
Stopped reading right there.
Replies: >>15164
>>15159
elaborate
Replies: >>15165 >>15188
>>15164
He is the Linux-hater lurking around.
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>>13450
Actually, I was looking at computers in 1991 and they were still selling brand new 286's as the low-end budget system. But I didn't buy anything at the time (was still in school/training). The next year I moved to another city and one of my roommates there had a brand new Gateway 2000 386SX/16 with 2 megs RAM and like 80 megs HDD, VGA, and SoundBlaster (8-bit). Pretty sure he paid a bunch for that, like around $2000. It came with DOS 5 and Windows 3 installed, but Windows was totally useless because all the games were for DOS. It had a modem also, and Telix for calling BBS's.
Replies: >>15181 >>15182
>>15179
Intrresting anectodes, anon.
For us zoomers it's totally mindblowing to think about what it must have been like to actually have experienced the microcomputer revolution in the late 80s/90s. Nowadays everything is boring and gay.
I find it interesting how comparitevely slow things moved back then and at the same time how impressive the differences between processor revisions were. I mean the 386 was introduced in 1986 (I think?) and they were still selling 386 machines at the price of a car in the early 90s.
At the same time the difference between a 286 and 386 was worlds apart.
>>15179
The 286 I posted about also is an early 90s model. It has a whopping 2megs of ram.
In the picture I posted you can see that geology professor used the PC all the way through the 90s.
>>15145
Replies: >>15183
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>>15182
Yeah in the 90's you could pretty much still use any old computer, even for getting on the Internet. My aunt had an Amstrad PC1512 (with just two floppy drives, no HDD at all) up until like 1999. She could get online to send emails and browse the web in Lynx, plus do the typical word processing and such.
At some point everything changed, websites demanded you use latest IE/Netscape or whatever, and that was the end because those old computers obviously can't run the FAGMAN bloatware.
Also this is maybe too late, but you can use fdisk to list partitions >>15145
Replies: >>15191
>>15164
Not that anon, but Linux is an Unix-like operating system, so either the person who wrote that text has some brain problems to write Linux-like instead of Unix-like; or ELKS really is such a copy of a copy that it doesn't even resemble Unix anymore, and it just has some very vague similarities to some Linux-only features. Methinks it's the former.
Replies: >>15189
>>15188
"Linux compatible" would propably a better wording.
They could not call it "Linux" since it was never officially ported to the 16bit 86 CPUs. Torvalds originally wrote Linux on a 386.
No clue how you would go about porting linux to such an architecture, but it propably requires more than a few patches. Propably not something a retard could do.
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Let me follow-up my last post >>15183 to add that MSDOS doesn't have to be retarded and gay >>15145 because they made a whole bunch of useful tools for it back in the day, so it's only lame if you're using it stock. I can't list all of them, but for starters you should look into 4DOS and QEMM/Desqview. I didn't have 4DOS back then sadly, so I hobbled along with COMMAND.COM and some aliases and command history provided by the DOSKEY program that came with my version of DOS. I also had LIST90H that was also very helpful, kinda like a mini version of Norton Commander.
For programming, the OS should already includes some version of BASIC like BASICA/GW-BASIC or QBASIC. These are actually quite good dialects, and were very popular back in the day so you'll find tons of programs written in them (as well as the older & compatible MBASIC for CP/M). I liked them back then, and now I like them even more!
Otherwise Turbo Pascal was also very popular. Something I stumled on today while searching for an old game (Island): http://blarg.ca/2018/10/14/turbo-pascal
I also had a lot of fun with TP back in the 90's. More recently I tried to use FreePascal on Linux, but it's not at all the same in practice. With DOS things were simple, everything just worked because you had full access to the hardware. With FPC, half the TP library functions don't even work, like for example the PC speaker, or writing to video memory. Obviously this is a no-go with nanny Linux kernel (no fun allowed!) but the FPC devs didn't bother to make any translation layer for typical DOS stuff, so you have to instead use another library altogether like SDL or whatever. That means you can't just compile old code, you have to rewrite it, unless it's just text and even then you can't assume the terminal can have a certain size or the ANSI (Codepage 437) DOS font. But I had lots of fun with this in DOS, and actually I haven't really done much game programming since those days, because coding on Linux has just been a shitty experience for me. I should have just stuck with my 486 and DOS. Especially since I had gone through the trouble to install an NE2000 network card in there, plus a packet driver and the other required software for TCP/IP, etc. I even had a version of Lynx for DOS, and there were other tools like Pine that ran natively. I even had a copy of Deluxe Paint for making pixel art, Scream Tracker 3 for making music. Shit was cash!
If you can't get TCP/IP running for some reason, don't worry. Just get Kermit instead, it kicks ass!
If you go with ELKS, then maybe you should try to find out if dvtm works under it.
https://www.brain-dump.org/projects/dvtm/
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I doubt you're gonna learn anything with ELKS that you couldn't already with normal Linux. It's just gonna be more C/Unix wankery like everything that's in vogue today. You'd be better off to port CollapseOS to this computer. Or make your own Lisp if you're one of those lainfags. But obviously DOS already has assembler and huge amounts of documentation, tutorials and examples, so you don't even  need to install any fancy OS to write Tetris. Plus there's tons of good old games to play natively, which is something not many people have an opportunity to do today.
Replies: >>15254
>>15201
>porting collapse os
That's an excellent idea, anon. How would a hyperactive zoomer go about tacking a project like that?
I only have done some pic assembler and tarduino C MCU programming before.
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>>13347 (OP) 
I should start reading about technical details of C64. Terry Davis recommended the book Mapping The Commodore 64
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