>invest in an expensive mechanical keyboard because if I'm typing on it all day anyway then it might as well be the best I can get
>find a keyboard with "speed silver" switches because supposed to be quiet and I hate pressing the keys very deep down
>turns out the fucking brick is thicker than your mom and I have to bend my hands up in an awkward way
>keys activate at like 20% the way down, which means you have literally no physical feedback whatsoever for when it activates
>need to press the keys almost a whole centimeter before it's at the bottom
>loud as fuck "clack" sound if the key hits the bottom
>the fucking keys are laid in a niggerlicious concave curve where I need to lift my fingers higher to press the key above the current one
I've literally never touched a keyboard that felt worse to use, this thing cost like $200 or something. I could have gotten one for cheaper but this was the only one of it's type that didn't have disco lights all over it. Speaking of which, it's almost impossible to find a mechanical keyboard that doesn't bleed rainbow lights out of it's ass, some of them even advertise themselves as having "blinding lights".
Are mechanical keyboards the biggest meme in computers? I've used a flat chiclet keyboard (pic related) for years and never had any kind of issue with it when playing games or typing. The keys never fail to activate, the travel time to the bottom is very small and there's a slight bump inbetween so the feedback for pressing them is perfect, it's slim without any excess bulk, it's quiet, and doesn't require weird hand movements. The only downside is that the keys feel slightly wobbly.
Meant scissor switch.
I am very comfy with my Brown-switch Das Keyboard,but I can confidently tell you that you don't actually need a mechanical keyboad.They do change the experience in a way that I appreciate but I guess you might have ended up not liking?
>find a keyboard with "speed silver" switches
I feel like this was your mistake here.
All your complaints seem to be bad decisions by whoever designed that specific keyboard.And peripherals that advertise the apperance of speed,reaction time and such without giving proper numbers tends to be low in quality(see all the "gamer gear" around).
Leds are a cancer.
Short key travel and quietness were the main factors that led me to silver switches, but turns out neither was true. The short travel is true for activation but it's useless when there's no feedback at all, I was expecting the key to activate when it's at the bottom and for the distance to bottom to be short.
Linear switches seem gay and that was probably part of the problem, I tried to use the keyboard for a while but found it extremely uncomfortable both for videogames and for typing. I use some random mechanical keyboard at a work computer, I don't like how deeply you have to press the keys to activate them, and the "bump" that gives physical feedback doesn't feel as solid as it should be especially when playing games. It's also more loud than I'd like.
I've been using pic related for years, it has never failed me and I have come across dozens of them in the wild so I will always have a backup.
>know nothing about a product
>lets see: I can either go to a shop and test it out
>or do the rational thing which is blindly buying it from the internet because reddit told me its good
You brought this onto yourself OP. I have never touched a mechanical keyboard in my life but will definitely buy one in the future. I love my cheap ass chiclet laptop keyboard and I type faster than fags using mechanical keyboard but one thing I can tell you is that sometimes it's you who is the mistake, not the machine. Keep using it no matter how much discomfort it may bring at the moment and very likely you will learn to love your long and hard keyboard. I bought a used keyboard and it was hard as fuck to touchhmm and I felt like shit because of buyer's remorse you know. But guess what? After a few weeks of touching it over and over again all over the place I learned to love it and now i really like using this long and hard keyboard that I used to hate. Now I can type at the same speed on both keyboard because i am just that fucking badass you know. Many times I prefer using the external keyboard because it has more keys on it you know, more things to touch and play with. Playing rhythm games is better when you can actually tap the shit out of the keys unlike the chiclet one, chiclet is only good for typing and nothing else. I also learned that I made fewer mistakes using the external keyboard because the keys are bigger and it requires more space to actually make a key press compared to the chiclet one, you know longer and shit. Tell me fellow fags, is membrane keyboard that emulates the mechanical feel feel good to touch?
>Are mechanical keyboards the biggest meme in computers?
YES and no depending on your use case BUT MOSTLY YES
Thank you for giving me another excuse to shit on the state of the entire fucking keyboard industry OP.
Virtually every single mechanical keyboard on the market has fucking GOD AWFUL switches that are inferior to even the most garbage rubber dome $20 keyboards you'll come across. A $20 rubber dome keyboard will have more tactility and be virtually silent. Mechanical keyboards are inferior in every single way to a rubber dome keyboard for sound and tactility, the two most important factors for a keyboard while typing or even gaming.
The entire mechanical keyboard "community" and people who shill them is one of the most mesmerizing instances of modern mass hysteria that has gone unreported. There are some things about mechanical keyboards that are good, though. The fact they have shifted towards a standardized keycap stem is very useful if you want to replace your keycaps. Also having full key roll over is something you won't get with 99% of rubber dome boards. And there are many more form factors for mechanical keyboards, so you aren't stuck with giant ones like you generally are with rubber dome boards.
Low profile mechanical keyboards exist but their switch choices are
<loud as fuck switch for actual fucking retards
<linear switch that's loud as fuck with no tactility
<linear switch that's still loud as fuck compared to a rubber dome with no tactility
Literally every board uses these 3 same TERRIBLE switches. And this is the only way you'll get a low profile keyboard that has full key rollover, going with these nauseating switches.
Pic related is the best keyboard I've ever used for typing, and would be for gaming if it had 6 key rollover. Small form factor, silent, built in wrist rest, these are things that people ACTUALLY FUCKING NEED when it comes to keyboards. The only issue is that it has complete shit key rollover so I can't play fighting games with it. If the industry built small form factor rubber dome boards with high fucking actuation force for real tactility with 6 keyroll over then there would be zero need for mechanical keyboards. But finding a rubber dome with high key rollover is basically next to impossible in a TKL format.
the entire keyboard industry needs to be burned to the fucking ground
>Pic related is the best keyboard I've ever used for typing
I've dealt with dozens of those and absolutely fucking hate them, the gaps between the keys just build up dirt and jizz and every other mystery substance that hasn't even been named yet. I know we're talking about keyboards but I'm going to take this change to shit on nu-chinkpads, they're godawful, the trackpad is literally one giant button that never gets your clicks right and moves the mouse everywhere, the trackpoint and mouse buttons are located in really shitty spots that you have to position your wrist like a fucking contortionist to use them, and the keys pop off all the fucking time and are impossible to get back on. I'm sorry but I cannot see this post as anything but bait. Give me a keyboard on the X220 or T420 and nothing else.
I could see the gaps building up gunk yes, but that's a minor issue to me. My older chinkpads keyboards either from age or from shit design while they don't have the gap, their actuation force is much lower and it's hard to tell when I've actuated a key press. This nu-chiclet board on the other hand is crisp as fuck and very satisfying to type on. Plus it's not that difficult to clean your keyboard every week to prevent gunk build up.
I've heard people shit on the nu-thinkpad boards a lot but I'm honestly enjoying it compared to my x200 board. Though I think a fresh t420 board would probably be the best typing experience. It's a shame it's so difficult to find desktop versions. And an even bigger shame that they key rollover on these things is so abysmal. I'm still considering going with EPOMAKER NIZ Plum to try and get the best of both worlds, but I'm not sure you can increase the actuation force on those enough with springs to even come close to a thinkpad feel. Plus I can't for the life of me understand why they make these things fucking white. And I'd need to velcro a wrist rest onto it. God I fucking hate keyboards.
Look at this stupid retard and laugh.
>the gaps between the keys just build up dirt and jizz and every other mystery substance that hasn't even been named yet
That applies to all keyboards.
nigger my laptop keyboard has wider spaces between the keys compared to this piece of shit and there is nothing on my keyboard. You know why? Because I use it frequently so the dirt wont be building up. The dirtiest I think is the dandruff and hair stuck inside the keyboard when I unplug that shit and take a look up from its butt.
>this thing cost like $200 or something
Damn OP, you should have gone with UHK. It's 75 shekels more expensive, but it has a lot of neat shit.
>Speaking of which, it's almost impossible to find a mechanical keyboard that doesn't bleed rainbow lights
I bought a cheap (((logitech))) k840, it has a nice feel while typing and its quiet.
>>loud as fuck "clack" sound if the key hits the bottom
Why would you hate it? It's satisfying as fuck.
I've never got the whole point of ergonomic keyboards and mouses. I mean how are you supposed to use this thing?
>it's almost impossible to find a mechanical keyboard that doesn't bleed rainbow lights out of it's ass, some of them even advertise themselves as having "blinding lights".
(((Gaymer products))) are cancer.
>Are mechanical keyboards the biggest meme in computers?
Most mechanical keyboards are just memes. Honestly, regular non-mechanical rubber dome keyboards are perfectly fine (if you avoid the cheapest Chink shit). As for gaming, the keyboard is way less important than having a good mouse. Personally, I got a Cherry MX-Board 3.0 mechanical keyboard that has Cherry MX Brown switches.
Don't know if I've ever used a keyboard with less fuss or bullshit.
It just works.
>muh clack sound
standard wiggoid autism. this is not the reason you want a """mechanical""" keyboard
Speaking of god-tier boards, the K400 is a must have for anyone looking to setup an HTPC. I don't think the battery I put in this thing has died since I bought it over a year ago.
It uses a wifi dongle but I wouldn't use it for anything besides an HTPC.
I will just buy a regular keyboard.
are cheap mechanical keyboards around $50 worth it?
no sorry not 50, 25 dollars or something
> are cheap mechanical keyboards around $50 worth it?
In most all cases no, you are better off buying a regular rubber dome keyboard.
for me it's k120
that's a washing machine you dolt
oh shit i'm sorry
The keys around WASD on my old keyboard started breaking and I'm down to my last spare keyboard. I started looking for a new one again, and god fucking fuck it is difficult to find a high quality keyboard that doesn't look like absolute cancer. Everything is RGB lit, everything has bluetooth, everything has dedicated software and unique light control keys and macro buttons and whatever, half of them all are some retarded crunched down mini keyboards with special snowflake key layouts and the other half are exceedingly wide in some dimension because of all those unnecessary extra keys they have on it, some keyboards even have fucking motion sensors or something so they can light up when you bring your hands close.
I researched "low profile" mechanical keyboards which sound promising, but there's almost none of them available at all, and any that are available have all the worst bloat that a keyboard can have on them. It doesn't even seem that much better because supposedly one of the """"""""""""""""""""good"""""""""""""""""""" things about them is that the key press depth is almost the same as normal mechanical keys. This is something that I will never for the life of me understand about mechanical keyboards, why is it "good" that the feedback for pressing the key down is worse? There's Kailh Choc switches which seem to have some of the lowest travel, but after years of being available there's only like 4 keyboards that use them and I can't find any of them in any of the stores that I can comfortably buy from (without having to deal with retarded payment methods or taxes or literally unusable websites) except for one keyboard that has all the RBG shittery and scifi gaymer design and also is only available with the niggerlicious clicky switches that make loud and sharp clicky sounds.
The keyboard(s) I've used for years are no longer available anywhere so I can't buy another one. I found another that looks similar with a fatter form factor, I think I'll just have to try it and then buy 10 of them if it turns out to be okay so I'll never have to downgrade again. I can literally and unironically get 10 of them for the same price as one of those low profile nigger "gaming" pile of shits. And this kind of keyboard is going to work as soon as I plug it in without requiring me to disable the lights or configure settings or install anything or look at some RGB light show every time I start the computer until the keyboard loads back my settings, it just fucking works because it's a fucking keyboard and nothing else. The main reason I'd want a mechanical keyboard though is that the keyboards that I use are so cheap and flimsy, I want something that's built to be solid and doesn't have weird 2 nanometer thick plastic flips and pins inside the keys that start detaching if you look at it wrong. Speaking of being solid, I watched some of the reviews for low profile mechanical keyboards and the keys looked wobbly as fuck, my keyboard is rock fucking solid by comparison. And on the note of reviews, 80% of them are some fucking ASMR sound masturbation as if nobody gives a fuck what the keyboard is like to actually type on.
If you want a decent laptop them you'll have very similar problems. The priorities in hardware are completely fucked, like you have to unironically pay upwards to $1500 just to have a 1TB hard drive on your laptop even though the actual price difference between that and 512GB is like $30. I know you can usually switch it yourself, but you can't switch something like the touchpad or keyboard or the screen, which are selected by retards in the same way, nor can you install trackpad buttons that literally no laptop has these days. Speaking of screens, half the laptops have some ultra high res 8k 300hz touch screens on them as if someone thought the laptop is going to be used as some fucking ereader tablet or smart phone or competitive gaming device.
This shit is so fucking bad that I'm unironically thinking of switching from software to hardware. Like what does it actually take to design and produce a keyboard and start selling it? I'd like to learn that so I can make a keyboard that's simply designed to be the most solid keyboard that you could make, with mechanical keys that don't require you to press them half a centimeter down before they hit the bottom. Something that can be taken apart and repaired, just make the best possible keyboard with nothing besides the keyboard in it, have a few versions with alternate form factors and then keep supplying parts for them, completely replaceable keys/faceplates for different preferences and colors, provide premium pure aluminium meme caps and custom painted/carved/decorated components and shit for people who want to rice, make 3D printing models available so people can even make their own replacement parts where applicable, open source the schematics to some degree so people (and businesses) can repair and customize them better, and provide separate clicky key switches that electrocute the user to death for thinking that those switches are okay. Only release a new product if you have some actual legitimate improvements to make to it, like a noticeably smaller form factor that doesn't change anything except reduce unnecessary bulk. Build a brand that's such pure quality that you don't need to use rainbow lights and jew marketing tricks to make sales, people will thirst for it because nobody else is offering anything even remotely as good for the task that the product is for. If you want a superior typing experience with superior build quality, then there simply isn't an alternative, and it's probably cheaper than competitors as well because it doesn't have all kinds of unnecessary gamer cancer on it.
Keep expanding and replacing computer peripherals, mouses that are highly precise out of the box and don't require or even HAVE any software, 3 or so different mouse models with different amounts of extra buttons, the primary version having 0. Maybe a couple alternatives for different hand sizes. Mousepads that have different textures and levels of friction according to user preference, it should be easy to provide many different sizes since it's just a sheet that can be cut to any form factor, and people could buy a cheap test sheet to find out which one they like most. Anything that requires advanced specialization that you can't provide yourself, such as computer displays, you'd link specific products from affiliates like Eizo so users can easily fill the gaps and find actual quality for all the shit they need, and then you'd encourage your affiliates to make specific types of products focusing on quality of the product with as few unnecessary gizmos as possible. People will come to you to find all the right shit, even if you don't directly manufacture or sell them, and hardware companies will want to make products that you would endorse.
When the business is big enough, start dabbing into laptops, making laptops with completely custom interior and exterior. Have a couple different types of laptops, a 13" laptop that's focused on portability and battery life and nothing else, a 15" general purpose main product laptop that that has enough power to do most things but also carefully designed to be as thin and light as it can be with a decent battery, and then a 17" high performance laptop that completely disregards portability and only cares about power and cooling for gaming and doing production work while plugged in. Never actually change the design unless you come up with a better designed trackpad buttons or a smaller motherboard or better cooling design or something like that, in the meantime only release new [current year] versions that just switch to newer hardware. All of them have aluminium/metal case that's rock solid. Have an actual power switch instead of those gay "hold this button exactly 1.62 seconds to toggle" nigger push buttons. A webcam that has a sliding aluminium cover, and can be 'physically removed from the laptop completely. All the parts can be easily removed so you can clean the internals of dust and keyboard of cheetos dust. Sell replacement parts like keyboard keys/switches so the whole laptop won't become unusable if something like that breaks. Well documented internals and motherboard so you can find all the components and repair the laptop, repair shops will start shilling your laptops just because they're so easy to repair and makes their job easier and more profitable.
When you can afford it, make a privacy/hacker laptop that has a RISC-V processor and is designed to be extra easy to take apart and customize. It has no webcam, bluetooth comes as a separate component that you must install yourself, and the WIFI card can just be pulled out any time like a CD drive. It comes with a tool that lets you flash the BIOS, and it's all FOSS.
Then start developing a custom RISC-V operating system whose goal is to destroy Microsoft, Apple, and Linux all at the same time. Make it as simple to use as Mac, as many tools and advanced user features as Windows for people who use computers a lot, and as much customizability for advanced users as Linux without being dragged behind by unix brain damage or other shitty prehistoric ideas. Develop a C-like language that's basically just C with all it's problems fixed, add function overloading and namespacing, and no header files. Make it free and open source so that people can completely understand and customize it, but with the exception that people can't release separate versions of the OS, just to avoid inheriting the 83252326346 distributions problem from Linux. The official OS will only be developed by a small team of highly competent programmers, and when it has all the features it requires, there's no need for more features so instead they shift focus from features to researching ways to make it perform better, and creating programming libraries to help people make high performance software.
And after you dominate the OS sphere, you should have enough money to buy AMD and fire everyone except the most core hardware engineers, whose first job is to remove all the spying and unnecessary shit from the CPUs and GPUs. Put GPU progress on hiatus for a couple years, delete the entire fucking GPU driver and switch to an ISA-based design: make it so the programmer can program directly for the GPU just like they can for the CPU, and provide an OpenGL-like library for it along with an optional compatibility driver to make the transition smoother. When the user can program directly for the GPU, even though you were on a progress-hiatus for a couple years, the performance of people's graphics code will shoot past what they can get with Nvidia cards just because the software is more in line with the hardware. And now that you've removed all the indians from AMD and given more power to the core engineers, their motivation to live has gone way up and they can make big redesigns in the GPU to make it better, so you will speed up past Nvidia in processing power as well given a couple more years. Also the CPU engineers will be assigned to spend half of their time on making RISC-V CPUs.
While you're buying shit, Canon is next on the list. That might sound like it's coming from nowhere, but Canon are the jews that killed the SED display technology. Basically you're just buying the patent and then can start developing SED displays to kill all other display technologies forever. I guess you can use Canon's camera technology to improve the webcams on your laptops and create quality webcams for streamers, but that's an area I don't have interest in.
Now you've basically taken over the basis for all computing so there's only minor things you can do, such as buying Adobe and firing every single employee and then deleting all their software, so it's time to move on. First order of business is to buy Boston Dynamics and allocate 50% of the net revenue from your company to /robowaifu/. Make sure Elon Musk is informed about this and discuss a partnership. Start developing robots and gradually releasing more and more advanced robo waifus, make them open source and customizable so people can truly make the robo their own waifu. Come up with a way to make them inherently upgradeable in such a way that people never have to buy a new model, they can just buy new components to upgrade her. You might want to buy Sennheiser somewhere along the way to develop headphones that cancel out feminist seething. You can improve their product lines and your laptop speakers while you're at it.
Make sure you sell as many robowaifus as quickly as possible, the goal is to establish their place in society and create what is essentially a hidden army of combat-capable robowaifus before anyone can make a law to ban them. Then when such an army is ready, people can start using them to destroy corrupt governments and hunt down the Clintons and Rothschilds. Use Elon Musk's neuralink to give the robowaifus an unbreakable connection to their owners, so they can never be used against them. Now that 3D thots have lost their cunt pass since people have robowaifus, only the best and most pure women are selected by white men while the rest spew out mutated nigger babies in protest. The white race will split in 2, a feminist nigger mixtures that will basically just turn into Africa 2.0, and a high tech superman society protected by an army of combat-ready robowaifus, and their gene pool rapidly improves as if you're watching evolution happen every generation since humans have to constantly strive to be good enough to be selected over a robowaifu.
And now that all the third worlders have been removed from the civilized part of society, Elon Musk can safely finish his space project and start turning humans into a multiplanetary species. With a high trust society of super intelligent superhumans, we no longer need to pay everyone in a traditional sense and can work together on things. The first thing we'll work on is a ring around the earth, a space elevator into the ring, another elevator from the ring to the moon, and a giant precision laser on the moon to incinerate all the niggers and jews on earth. Grant half the planet to Japan and keep the other half to ourselves. And then we'll begin developing warp technology so we can start exploring the stars.
Anyway that's roughly what will happen if someone doesn't procure a decent keyboard for me pretty fucking soon.
>half of them all are some retarded crunched down mini keyboards with special snowflake key layouts
There's nothing wrong with small form factor keyboards. In fact they're superior in many ways.
>Speaking of being solid, I watched some of the reviews for low profile mechanical keyboards and the keys looked wobbly as fuck, my keyboard is rock fucking solid by comparison. And on the note of reviews, 80% of them are some fucking ASMR sound masturbation as if nobody gives a fuck what the keyboard is like to actually type on.
Not that it helps but I just settled on a chinkpad USB keyboard for my low profile small form factor solution. It has shit key roll over outside of WASD but other than that it's solid. If you must get a mechanical low profile then it seems like the only choice is to go with a keychron board.
>Like what does it actually take to design and produce a keyboard and start selling it?
The cost of keyboard is in the machinery to mass produce them and the logistics chain to sell and ship them. It's why making your own keyboard from scratch can cost you $400 but getting an $100 board from a major company will be the same quality and a fraction of the price. You can't create a product like a keyboard and turn a profit while selling at a reasonable price unless you can scale large enough fast enough, and that requires capital to begin with. Not to mention all the slave labor from china you need access to.
A librem 5 manufactured and assembled in the US is $2000+, a librem 5 made by chink slave labor is $700.
There's nothing wrong with making a keyboard small, but there's a lot wrong with putting keys into places where they don't belong and moving other keys out of the way because you keep accidentally hitting the wrong keys due to muscle memory expecting something else there.
That's one of the best looking ones I could find as well, but it still has all the RGB light shows and custom Gaming Center™ bloatware. If the keyboard prompts me to install something or shows an RGB rainbow every time I start my computer then I'm going to throw it into the trash, and I don't want to throw the value of 5 of my current keyboards into the trash.
>You can't create a product like a keyboard and turn a profit while selling at a reasonable price unless you can scale large enough fast enough
Of course it wouldn't be cheap to start out, production cost doesn't even account for the time and resources taken to design a good keyboard in the first place, especially since I'd want to make a new key switch design as well. The way I imagine it is that I'd design a single keyboard (with only 1 or 2 keys) on my own, just keep honing it until it's really good. Then sell them at an appropriately high price for people who are tired of these crappy RGB keyboards and scissor switches and just want a very high quality keyboard. If it seems successful then try to crowdfund mass production, use the existing product as proof and the pitch is that you can make it several times cheaper and even better.
I don't know how you'd manufacture any parts at all without some expensive machines though, I mean you can't test the quality and durability and precision of a model if you use some shitty 3D printer. If you're using some expensive machines then wouldn't you just be able to mass produce the keyboards for cheaper anyway? I don't know anything about how these things are made though except for watching a video on how injection molding works.
Interesting ideas. Seriously considering making a /tech/zine.
>why less feedback is "better"
A possible reason is muscle memory and fatigues. Users can develop muscle memory with no-feedback switches after an extended period of usage. That reduces the need for a tactile activation feedback. Why is this useful or desired is because of fatigue. With tactile feedbacks, a bit more force is needed to overcome that bump and activate the switch (irrelevant to the spring tension). Repetitive and lengthy usage therefore causes muscle fatigue, in addition to the effects of poor ergonomics.
To reduce fatigue, the thought was to remove that bump.
>the perfect keyboard
DIY is the only way out of cucksumer products. Tons of guides online. Don't like the switch, buy the one you like. Don't like the case, print one/(if wood) glue one up. Install QMK, strip/desolder all LEDs. You make the perfect keyboard for yourself.
>no 3d printer
Find a 3d printing service near you. No, you can't mass produce because it's expensive. Making a mold costs much more than printing it once, on you own or by others. They are just like PCB fabs, but not good for mass production.
>Laptop and hardware (((Planned obsolescence)))
Many things are going on here. It is not clear why such bluntly anti-consumer corporations can still not only exist, but thrive in the market. This also explains why your solution hasn't happened yet.
Demand. It doesn't make any sense why anyone with a functional brain would buy something that denies their own freedom to repair, modify and inspect their own property. I see two reasons.
>Normalfags are dumb
It is remarkable how retarded a normalfag is. Imagine not know how anything works, but still operate them all the time. The level of ignorance is staggering, as if they believe in real magic and fairy tales (which they may really do). They never try to understand, never reads error messages. Anything comes up and they just throw an exception, "it refuses to work". TV shows depicted computers being broken after coffee spill on keyboards.
You may ask how can they survive despite being so dumb. The answer is the same as the other (((despite))) question. It is not good if slaves and subjects are too smart.
Education and colleges develops slaves instead of workers. To question or deviate from the norm is to be evicted from the cool kids and maybe even institutions. Graduates are imprinted with blind trust in authorities (SCIENCE!!!1111 TVs/jewgle lying is a conspiracy!), to the point where they do not entertain any other sources/ideas on general issues; but still apply their last bit of thinking on their specialty.
This means your market is severely limited compared to the companies you want to take down. Even if you are very successful and captured 100% of the market of customizable and sensible hardware. You still won't make a dent on their profit.
DiY is not a real solution to keyboards. The cost is prohibitive as fuck. What we need are more mainstream topre clones with various springs for actuation force.
Supply. There is little supply for this kind of hardware. Again, I can think of two reasons.
>Monopoly on knowledge
>Monopoly on minds/ideas
>Monopoly on raw material
While plastic, keyboards, PCB and production have been around for a long time. These knowledge are difficult to obtain or practice. Without laboratory equipments and electronic components, learning electronics is not that easy. Many cities and countries are tightening recycling regulations and dumpster-dive can be illegal if not expensive. Together with rising housing market prices and a general inconvenience for diy projects (not soy maker shit), practical knowledge is hard to come by.
Even if you have the knowledge and ideas, either FAGMAN brain suck you dry until there is not a drop of creativity or the your new successful start-up is bought up. Then the creator went to retirement or work for FAGMAN again.
It can be difficult for small companies or factories to source cheap components. Volume discount is the key to profit, but those starting quantity are usually not less than 1-10k (for the real cheap price). That's why diy is expensive.
It is not. But it is the only way within your reach.
only complaint I've had with mine is if you're a sloppy fucker and spill a drink on it they go to shit. need to pot the fucking things.
Everyone in this thread is a fucking retard. Buy a Leopold for fuck's sake and deal with it. If you want something compact get a Ducky or Anne Pro. If you have money to spend get a HHKB.
As someone who does a lot of typing and own a lot of keyboards both membrane and mechanical, here's my thoughts on the memeyness of mechanical keyboards.
This is the most autistic part about mechanical switches, but it's not the biggest meme in it. some people type like a grandma using sugar-glass keycaps. Me? I don't, I bottom out my keycaps most of the time. Based on what I felt from a 12-key switch sample, the only real difference I felt was with either clicky switches or speed silver, everything else was not much different.
The meme-part of actuation comes when you compare linear vs tactile. the difference between both is that tactile has a slight resistance when you start pushing on it, and linear doesn't. With linears, you also don't feel when the keyboard's switch actuates. Some people notice it, but I don't when typing normally, and I feel like that's a big meme among switch types.
With the clicky switches, you get the full sensory experience when you hit the key, that is both the best and worst thing about it. I like clicky, so therefore, my favorite color switch is blue.
The only other mechanical keyswitch I have tried is the classic buckling spring. Believe it or not, the original makers of the IBM keyboards are still making and selling keyboards : https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/SFNT The problem I have with mine? the machines used to make it are old as fuck and the result is a bunch quirks with the keyboard itself - in the winter (up north so anywhere from 30F to far below it), I had some keys that either had ghosting issues or wouldn't respond, but were fine when they warmed up.
As for the actuation force of the buckling spring, after using a logitech g710+ for a year, going back to my USB model M is actually a LOT heavier than the brown switches.
Whomever says mechanical switches are quiet is retarded as fuck. Noise among switches is a meme.
All tactile and linear switches are louder than membranes. The only exceptions are for the silent-linears (red/black). comparing the cherry silent red/black to a few membrane keyboards I got, they're actually noticeably more quiet. However most keyboards don't have silent switches, and if they do you pay premium for it.
If you're like me, and you actually like a noisy keyboard? Anything that isn't blue, green, or white just feels mute and generic to use.
If you want a quiet keyboard that's not expensive, stick with membranes. Red or black silent is the way to go if you want to make your own awesome, silent mechanical keyboard.
>Linear vs tactile for gaming
It's a goddamn meme, plain and simple.
>low profile switches
Kailh's low-profile switches are a meme, cherry low profile is even shorter than them. But if you want to look at inspiration for mechanical key design, look up old arcade machine hardware.
>Building and Manufacturing Hardware
If you want to make your own keyboard, there are a lot of tutorials and builds to look up. Keep in mind, unless you got a 3D printer, things can get expensive fast. Like at minimum, three times more expensive for one keyboard. If you want to save money, try to hand-wire your boards, use 3D-printed parts from a local source and such. Hot-swapping is neat if you want that enabled, but in practice, it's not good for boards that are meant to be portable, as the keyswitches can be kicked out of their sockets.
If you can get into CNC, machining, and laser-cutting, you have all the resources to make your awesome, chunky metal keyboard.
The only other problem you will have with making a business out of quality hardware, is a few things:
So-Five-Seconds-Ago Syndrome is one-part corporate obligation to keep their employees employed, and one-part greed to screw 'muppets' (read, normal people with real lives) out of their money. It's like a family with a domestic abuser - one asshole is doing it to get power, and the rest are doing it so they don't get hurt by that asshole in power.
I would feel like your best way to start is to create and engineer artisan hardware- stuff that is expensive, but has the support and durability to keep lasting for years and can keep up with the flow of technology.
Actuation shit is autistic semantics that don't matter to anyone but people who barely touch their keys when they type.
Noise on non-clicky switches is a meme, If you hate noise go either cherry silent, or just use a membrane keyboard.
If you like noise, go blue or go home, other clicky switches are just switch-weight-autism, and all other switches are mute trash.
>If you want a quiet keyboard that's not expensive, stick with membranes. Red or black silent is the way to go if you want to make your own awesome, silent mechanical keyboard.
The problem with membrane and rubber dome is that they aren't covered in the market like mechanical boards are. Getting a membrane with high key roll over and the exact form factor you want is actually impossible. The entire market is fucked. No one actually wants mechanical keyboards, and I mean that sincerely. All the most common things people value in a keyboard are the polar opposite of what every mass produced mech board offers. The entire "gaming" keyboard market is artificially generated through marketing campaigns.
99% of people want small form factor silent tactile keyboards. It doesn't matter if they say they want something else or they totally love their epic linear switches or god forbid browns, they're fucking lying. Yet what people actually need is not addressed in the market at all by the only companies that can afford to make them for a reasonable price.
>All the most common things people value in a keyboard are the polar opposite of what every mass produced mech board offers.
How about this: What do -you- value in a mechanical keyboard?
Me? I value a keyboard that doesn't hurt my limbs during extended use, one that has tactile and has auditory feedback, That's why I'm building a dactyl manuform since the other keyboards I got aren't good for.my posture.
>The entire "gaming" keyboard market is artificially generated through marketing campaigns.
'Gaming' anything hardware nowadays is cheap trash covered in black, LEDs and hard angle-designs propped by marketing campaigns. Apparently, when Razer was young, it was actually good solid hardware, which is weird, since I've always remembered them being nothing but overpriced fragile trash using spawn's color scheme.
>Yet what people actually need is not addressed in the market at all by the only companies that can afford to make them for a reasonable price.
Because these companies are either oblivious to the issue or are actively ignoring the problem in favor of short term profits. The trap of following easy money isn't a business thing, it's a human thing, and it takes real willpower to ignore it and do something that actually gives you a long-term benefit.
What you or I value doesn't matter. We know what the majority of people want and need in a keyboard and the mass produced mechanical keyboards don't address that market in the slightest. $20 membrane keyboards are better suited for 95% of "gamer" oriented people than the mech trash everyone buys. There's a reason why arena FPS players tend to despise mechs, because they have fraction of the tactility of even the shittiest membrane. And knowing when you've pressed a fucking key is a lot more important than pressing a micro second faster.
What should have happened was membrane boards being held to a higher standard with more form factors. Instead people just got used to bad switches and convinced themselves it was an upgrade. Maybe if $50 mass produced chink boards were putting zilent 70G switches into them it would be another story. But it's just the same 3 absolute trash switches that no one in their right mind would prefer over a membrane.
Same, the only reason mine broke was because I am a retard. I left it on a heater, somehow it fell on it, wasnt until the smell it I knew.
The shitter the keyboard the better you are as a person because you have to struggle to get through. Easy time creates weak men. That' is precisely why you have to buy shittiest keyboard you can find. You need to buy the $4 ones. Anything more expensive than $5 is for retard faggot normalnigger.
>easy times / weak men shit
Life is never easy. Suffering only matters if it teaches you a lesson, suffering for the sake of suffering is just being a dumb masochist.
You assume conscious thinking behind every action. Many are not. Behavioral pattern developed under low resource environments tend to be more efficient. Just like embedded developers vs JSkiddies. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger, because others who performs less well in suffering SHOULD be selected against (sadly not the case for (((1st world countries)))), and strength is relative.
>Are mechanical keyboards the biggest meme in computers?
I'm gonna have to just disagree with you there, Anon. Spent a lot of time and money building my stainless steel encased Ergodox, and I couldn't be happier.
Mostly Cherry White, some browns for shift keys, a green somewhere -- F5 I think.
here get one of these and shut the fuck up. The time you've spent bitching about keyboard could have been spent learning new things bitch.
>squashed cuck arrow keys
>pageup etc require a function key
>chiclet piece of shit
>probably membrane too
Chiclet is obviously better unless you're playing rhythm games.
So you're a mechanical shill?
non existent problem.
1/10 made me reply without direct link
> spillt my drank n my chicklet
> still wrking
>implying there's literally anything wrong with membrane or rubber dome
Rubber dome is objectively superior for everything that matters in a keyboard save for key rollover, and even that can be solved but just isn't because manufacturers stopped caring about advancing membrane boards once (((mechanical))) keyboards became the new hot jizz.
I don't see the issue with squashed arrow keys, in fact I prefer it because it allows for a full size shift which I need. Not having dedicated pageup/down keys is cancer though.
see this beauty? I fucking broke it because i am a fucking retard. I felt so fucking bad now.
How did you end up breaking it? I used this keyboard at my grandmother's pub when I was young and spilled endless amounts of coke on it. Got it out of the shed 14 years after initial purchase since my keyboard at the time broke and i've been using and abusing it ever since. I even aggressively drum along to music by smashing the keys.
you can get them online, it's not like they're rare. I see them in offices all the time.
I didn't say mechanical keyboards are new. You have abysmal reading comprehension.
I wish this bad boy wasn't so fucking expensive to buy.
>invest in an expensive mechanical keyboard because if I'm typing on it all day anyway then it might as well be the best I can get
why do wiggers fall for this shit?
It's like one guy fell for a meme and shilled it because of sunken cost syndrome, then the next guy shilled it because of sunken cost syndrome, then mass hysteria occurred and we have millions of people convince that mechanical keyboards are somehow better then membrane or rubber domes for actuation feel, typing, or whatever the fuck. Someone could write a study on this phenomenon it's so fucking ridiculous.
I got one because I noticed ghosting first hand when I was playing a game and I also wanted something that had key lighting for dim light conditions (even though I can type with my eyes closed, sometimes I still need to see the keys). Plus the keys are just so much more comfortable for gaming and it even came with special key caps for WASD and some other keys. I only spent around 40 bucks on mine though and I've had it for 5 or 6 years without issue. Even the $20 mousepad I bought for my mouse (I was really into mp fps and the mouse said it works better with the mousepad they sell...) just started peeling apart out of nowhere after a few years, so you could say my keyboard has outlasted a fucking mousepad with nothing but normal wear and tear.
isn't ghosting a wigger myth? i have not had a single time in 20 years where i pressed some keys on any of ~15 heavily used keyboards and some completely unrelated character got inputted. maybe you mean where you press a few keys at once and only the first few register (the thing "N-key rollover" solves).
i started investing in different keyboards too because the rubberdomes(TM) i get these days break in a year and also are pretty shit with keys that take too much effort to press. the $10 chinkshit starter ones i have got "blue" keyswitches and are too noisy to be usable. switching soon to something with low travel (maybe, if it it turns out memorizing the actuation point is just a meme and doesnt exist).
first keyboard i got could not handle pressing 3 keys at a time, which made it unusable for bomberman. second one i got also has blue switches but claims NKRO.
on both keyboards, its hard to repeatedly press a key with a minimal amount of time between repititions because of the massive travel before bottoming out. you have to instead repeat by trying to press only down enough to the actuation point and releasing all the way before the next press. i get better performance on a rubber dome by floating
the lights on most keyboards are too fucking bright to be used in the dark. also they have PWM like all gaymershit, which is annoying as it registers as something moving in your peripheral vision (same effect when there is a nigger approaching you with a baseball bat in your peripheral vision)
I thought ghosting was the inability of a keyboard to register more than a certain amount of keys at once, since it treats it like you didn't even press the last key once it hits that limit. Just like how a ghost exists but is treated like it doesn't just like you autists
This one has a brightness button with nice settings but you can also set the strength indirectly in the program that lets you set the colors for all the keys by using the alpha channel for the color. Said program is probably fine to run if you firewall. There might be a free alternative but I haven't even bothered even downloading that original program since my last pc os reinstall.
No idea what that was until I looked it up just now and I don't think I've ever experienced that.
>The click clacking hurts my ears :(
>My fingers get too tired pushing that hard!
The absolute state of soy gobblers. Why don't you just go full gay boy and buy a shitty Apple chiclet keyboard while you're at it?
Wiggers fall for this shit, because mech keyboards are the only type of keyboards that actually show the full specifications of them. Stuff like input lag, NKRO, and 1000Hz polling rate does matter for rhythm vidya (if you're good enough at them).
>I thought ghosting was the inability of a keyboard to register more than a certain amount of keys at once, since it treats it like you didn't even press the last key once it hits that limit.
And you're right.
>The click clacking hurts my ears :(
That's a legitimate concern, though. I fucking hate it when I'm trying to focus on listening to music and I hear loud key presses in the background.
>My fingers get too tired pushing that hard!
Who are you quoting?
>Who are you quoting?
Not me but: nearly everyone.
My current keyboard has Cherry-Greens. Loud, hard, and good.
Not as loud as old Buckling Spring keyboards, but I'm not rich enough for that nonsense.
>My fingers get too tired pushing that hard!
Standard membrane keyboards have like twice the actuation force of just about every mass produced mechanical switch on the market. Literally one of the biggest shilling points for mechanical switches is that "they're easier on the fingers". And yes, apples chiclet keyboards are unironically better than reds, blues, and browns.
Think your bait through better next time if you don't even know the actuation force of an MX switch.
what the fuck is a wigger? I hate how this word sounds.
>apples chiclet keyboards are unironically better than reds, blues, and browns
Uh some keyboards have tens of ms of lag due to the jewniggercock industry, so yes input lag does matter. It's not that it's hard to make a keyboard with low input lag, it's that some models just completely fuck it up. For example one way a keyboard can have more input lag is because some retarded loop fucking with LEDs stalls the entire logic.
Key rollover also matters depending on how many keys you need to press at once. I've seen a chink keyboard that cannot handle pressing 3 keys at once (diagnol move + shoot in a top down 2D game).
The problem with expensive keyboards is that they're likely expensive for no reason. All of the issues you mention are solved by cheap $20 keyboards AFAIK. As with everything, we need a database that lists models of keyboards of _all_ types (not just "gaymer" or "mechanical") along with their characteristics (at bare minimum, it should say some stuff about the switches, the input lag, rollover). Many $5 keyboards then would be better in many ways than $200 ones.
Most mice, including $5 ones from Walmart, easily support polling rate of 1000Hz, but they default to 125Hz. I'm sure it's the same for keyboards, but it's harder to test. This is a reduction of 8ms peak input lag to 1ms. When a gaymer mouse list "1000Hz" on the box, it's literally just setting some variable in USB protocol to be 1000Hz by default.
With 1000Hz vs 125Hz, for mice the effect is obvious as it travels much smoother (cursor across the desktop, window dragging, FPS gaming, etc). 10ms lag is bad for audio applications with feedback IIRC, so could be bad for rhythm games as well. Another possible problem is that when you anticipate lag (and so you press buttons earlier), keyboard input lag varies from 0-8ms per frame, which means your predictions could be off sometimes. There's also the fact that we're not just talking about 8ms here, but 8ms + whatever existing lag there is from the monitor and render loop.
But the bottom line is adding 8ms lag for literally nothing is terrible engineering. You want everything to have zero lag, aside from the things that absolutely need it, like the time between frames.
A lot of chiclet keyboards feel good to type on (and lots are dogshit). Much better than buckling spring as well as rubber dome, in my limited experience back then. The low travel is good as well as the solid feel. I was confused what wiggers were complaining about 10 years ago when they constantly attacked chiclet keyboards as "something for faggots".
>just get this deliberately badly made keyboard
It's slang in the anime community for a cosplayer who's wearing a wig. Try using it to fit in next time you go to an anime convention.
>As with everything, we need a database that lists models of keyboards of _all_ types (not just "gaymer" or "mechanical") along with their characteristics (at bare minimum, it should say some stuff about the switches, the input lag, rollover).
Making a database would be indeed helpful. I guess it would quite easy to do by contacting keyboard manufacturers and asking them about the USB polling rates of their keyboards.
>Most mice, including $5 ones from Walmart, easily support polling rate of 1000Hz, but they default to 125Hz.
Yeah, I don't fucking understand why they do that. At least you can easily force them to run at 1000Hz through hidusbf on Windows, and usbhid on Linux.
I'll also add to the topic that every keyboard with PS/2 output supports NKRO and possibly the lowest achievable latency due to how the PS/2 interface works. Too bad that for some reason they've stopped mass producing them.
You guys tell me what do you think about gook brand keyboard
The only keyboards that are worth checking out are those split mechanical keyboards, despite lots of keyboard faggotry from wherever. They take time to learn, but it helps with typing comfortably. The keyboard that I use is a Kinesis Freestyle Edge RGB with MX Brown that I got used for $120 (normally ~$200). There's also a tilt kit for $30 that allows some fixed angles, but it should have been included with the keyboard. There's plenty of programmable macros, and there's internal memory, although the soffware needs Wangdows/Mac to set up. It's advertised as a gayming keyboard, but it's really an expensive version of the Kinesis Freestyle Pro with RGB. I would like to make a custom keyboard someday like the Ergodox or the Dactyl, but you'll need to solder the PCB, which I don't know yet. 3D printing is another requirement, which is too expensive for me. Lots of customization for both hardware and software (via QMK) if you want to do it yourself. Otherwise, you'll have to cough up over $300 for an assembled keyboard.
Every word you said in that post made me not want keyboards tbh, setting up keyboard settings is kernel, firmware and setxkbmap's job.
It's all hobby related shit, but just like GNU/Linux, most of the software is free:
It's fair if you just want a simple keyboard that gets the job done without any tweaking, but if you're exceptionally autistic about the peripherals, it's worth a look. It's almost like building a computer, except certain steps require a 3D printer and/or a solder.
Niggers shouldn't be using keyboards anyway.
Have you looked into the Kailh Speed Copper keyswitches? They're like the tactile MX Brown but with less activation distance.
>I've literally never touched a keyboard that felt worse to use, this thing cost like $200 or something. I could have gotten one for cheaper but this was the only one of it's type that didn't have disco lights all over it. Speaking of which, it's almost impossible to find a mechanical keyboard that doesn't bleed rainbow lights out of it's ass, some of them even advertise themselves as having "blinding lights".
Consumers will gobble up the new RGB crap.
I mean it certainly looks overpriced, with a $200 I could buy a 1080p monitor and that keyboard is just made out of plastics and metals straight outta Shenzhen
It's an absolute joke (No offense RBG fans) but when it involves mechanical parts that had to move several autism parts that have replacements springs dampers, and even needs to be "oiled" as maintenance you know it's going to fail in a few years time.
Now look at the used laptops market, you can find a 2008 business laptops like Thinkpad or HP and its keyboard would still feel nicer than 90% of the market keyboard, they all have chiclet keys that lay flat, no need to lift fingers unlike your RGB concave sharp edges that is a fan of typewriters, and have an angled termination to emulate the feel and look of ancient typewriters which only causes you RSI or CTS and do no benefit other than readability of typewriters. They're even thick as heck, like the height is 2 inch for a keyboard? Just no. Not on my desk. It's even jiggly as heck, the keys need a full plate of damper and other aftermarket accessory costing you a grand total of $500 which you could've just bought a 4K display and you won't even suffer from RSI and CTS later.
>Are mechanical keyboards the biggest meme in computers?
Yes, just get the silent chiclet keyboards from japan/china, they even have no key collision/ghosting and are a lot cheaper.
It's a complete meme, just look at the "artisan keycaps" that are just little toy badge submerged on resin and then they sell it for $20 each "keycap".
God-tier exploits too
>mechanical parts need maintenance so that must mean they're made to fail
Nigger you're retarded.
lmao look at this closeted twink kek lul lol rofl
Got it for my HTPC today, is there any other fun stuff I can do with it?
I recently bought a used Ergodox-EZ. It's still expensive, but I really liked most of the features. I replaced the keyswitches with the Glorious Panda switches, and they're much more tactile than the MX Brown switches. Firmware flashing and customization is nice, as it works perfectly on GNU/Linux. My main gripes other than the price are the tilt legs and the thumb clusters. The legs don't really allow for enough angles, while the cluster is slightly too far for my thumbs to reach save for that one key closest to the lower row. I'll be keeping the keyboard for awhile, but I might consider the Dactyl if it ever gets mass-produced or at least have easier assembly than the tedious soldering instructions provided.
Can someone explain to me why they don't make non-staggering keyboards like pic related? Most ergo keyboards use this no-staggering layout, best keyboards i have used had low staggering and i see people constantly making/using diy grid keyboards because noone makes them. When i use a keyboard i can feel every key in zxc row is not placed properly, especially "z". If we used grid layout keyboards would be smaller soo it would be a plus from a manifucturing perspective too, why don't factories pull a jew and make them grid?
It's always been that way, except for stuff like calculators.
I know they make them that way because typewriters needed the staggering soo mechanic parts wouldn't touch each other. These computers were used by people that were already fast with the typewriter
soo they copied the design but we have at least 2 generations that never touched a typewriter now.
Although I agree with non-stagger ones for aesthetic and OCD reasons,
I think the point for staggered ones is that you can use it regardless of the tilting (30° to -30°) of the keyboard.
If it's to be judged according to tilting and aesthetic, nothing beats the honeycomb.
more like honeycum!
User has been warned for this post: not funny, didn't laugh
Why do thinkpads do this absolutely full retard shit and why do people defend it as a good keyboard?
Admin has been verbally demoralized for this post: don't care didn't ask
What's wrong with, fn key? the only complain that I could think of is that they're buggy on linux installed laptop. It wasn't the key fault anyway so that's a different issue.
All laptops I've seen have a Fn key. If you go back to older 32-bit IBM Thinkpad, they have better keyboards too. I wonder if anyone still uses those (actually use every day, not just have as an item in their collection). Probably even Linux users will consider them outdated now. Anyway they're just better built overall, nicer to type on, and have 4:3 displays, serial/parallel ports in the back, sometimes even USB2. Pic is very old, but they used the same keyboard even in Pentium 4 models.
The problem is that it's where 20 years of muscle memory thinks the Ctrl key is. Nobody else puts it in that location except Thinkpads.
ok u thinkspad hater loser
thinkspad is for the thinking man not hater loser like u
Look at this mexico insulting Thinkspads. You should get a life stupid mexoco.
More recent laptops have Ctrl and fn switched, maybe this is why.
its designed so that you can move your left pinky from 'a' to 'ctrl' without moving your hand, when your hands are on the home row (index on f & j) the alt and ctrl keys are perfectly symetrical.
NO ONE FUCKING NEEDED THIS
Soy the thread. The only people using this thread are ones too stupid to code.
zzz /tech/! I need fucking help right now!
I bought this beautiful ps/2 NEC japanese retro keyboard but when I plug it with ps/2 -> usb connecter into my linux laptop, it didn't work. All I got from dmesg was
unable to enumerate USB device
Cannot enable. Maybe the USB cable is bad?Wtf is this bullshit? how do I fix this? I could see the LED lights blink near the numpad every time when I plug it into my laptop. I tried modprobe joydev, modprobe hid still didn't work. I don't have usb-uhci module in kernel so I have to skip this modprobe step.
Maybe the USB cable is bad?
Don't give me that shitty answer. The keyboard cable is a ps/2 cable.
Maybe the ps/2 -> usb connector is bad?
I just bought that too anon
Try shutting down, and boot have it plugged in while cold.
Is it an active converter? If your keyboard doesn't talk usb, you need to get an active converter.
Why is thing this even sold over the internet?
gee i wounder why would anyone sell a product that have literally 0 use case.
The USB cable is bad btw, op is a faggot for not understanding it.
It's probably the converter. https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/52706/ps-2-to-usb-port-for-keyboard-gives-unable-to-enumerate-usb-device-on-port-5