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Welcome to /tech/, now with 100% less dolphin.
Read the Rules and Information: >>138
Rules have been updated 11/27/2020 05:21 UTC


my_name_is_erin_i_am_an_anglerfish--iEB-bHsx9A.mp4
(4.7MB, 1280x720, 01:03)
Discuss methods to remove >systemd.
Replies: >>4
>>1 (OP) 
Instead of removing just get a distro without it in the first place.
<Gentoo
<Alpine
<Void
<KISS
<GUIX/NixOS
<Sabotage
<Artix
<Devuan
Replies: >>5 >>118
>>4
This. But NixOS uses systemd by default and it probably wouldn't work well with alternate inits. GuixSD does use their own init and service manager.
gentoo-chan.png
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Literally impossible. Especially with the upcoming wave of rainbow employees in Red Hat.
There's currently no known way of convincing people that converting GNU/Linux into Windows/macOS ecosystems isn't good.
Replies: >>7
>>6
You forgot to put the Rust logo on that image.
Is BSD free of systemd?
Replies: >>11 >>12
>>10
BSD has BSD init. It's closer to something like Open RC than systemd.
Replies: >>13
>>10
systemd is only made for Linux. It won't work on BSD or other *nix OSes.
Replies: >>13
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>>11
>>12
Might've sounded like a stupid question - I'm really just curious what the dangers of systemd and things like it are. 

t. Never used any unix or linux OS but am looking into it now that I've got my hands on a spare laptop from work
Replies: >>14 >>105
>>13
It's GNU/Linux, not Linux.
the_very_hungry_systemd.gif
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>>13
Init is the first process started a Unix-like operating system when your machine boots up, and to some extent (exactly how much depends on your init system), it's responsible for all other processes which start up afterwards. Ideally you want something simple, both for your sake as a user and because simple software usually has fewer bugs and fewer security holes. And for context, until a few years ago most Linux distributions used SysV-style init which was widely regarded as a mess.
Now systemdicks is anything but simple. At absolute best its config files are supposedly less of a pain than SysV init scripts, which is the main reason distro maintainers adopt it, but otherwise? It's this horrendous clusterfuck which is not-so-subtly trying to take over the Linux ecosystem by shoving a bunch of unrelated shit into itself and absorbing unrelated projects. Not only is it an init system, now it has its greasy fingers in everything from logging and device management to DNS, printing, your computer's clock, boot management, and managing your home folder. All of these are interdependent in complex, very retarded ways, and they're also written by some legendarily shit programmers who are convinced they're hot shit. This also means systemd breaks in complex, very retarded ways, and more often than not its dumbass devs are too proud to admit any bugs you find exist until the entire internet and occasionally the fucking government screams at them.

So why does anyone use this piece of shit? That's...complicated. And it involves distro politics and lefty faggotry way, way more than it should, including the devs calling people who don't use systemd sexists and racists. The devs and systemd's fanboys also love to pretend that there are only two alternatives to SysV init: systemd and upstart, so they flog  upstart over and over even though no one's used that trash for years and hope no one notices that there's other init systems these days and that they're objectively better and way simpler than systemd.
moon_tux.png
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>>105
>calling people who don't use systemd sexists and racists
I was already considering switching to Devuan, but now I definitely will.
Replies: >>109
>>108
I was just looking at that as well, thinking about switching to it from Kubuntu instead of updating to 20 next year. How much of my shit will break without systemdicks though?
Replies: >>164
>>105
Note: most of the time systemd does "just work." But if it does fuck up for you there's a significant change your only recourse will be patching it yourself.
>>105
Thanks, anon. So can systemd even be removed? Something at a kernel level like that seems like it would be impossible to detach without rebuilding things from the ground up.
Replies: >>116 >>117
>>115
The whole point of init is that it's in userspace. PID 1 has special rights but you should be able to replace it with whatever and have no problems. Not that you should have to, because all init should be doing is reaping child processes.
Replies: >>117
>>115
As >>116 says, it's in userspace, the problem is that systemd likes shoving its tentacles in everything and its fanboys do everything they can to help this along. Distros which go full-throttle into systemd cancer can be hard to uncuck thoroughly, hard enough that just switching to a systemd-free distro is often the better option. It took Devuan several years to make sure everything worked without systemd, for example.
>>4
>Slackware's not listed in there despite being the great old one of distros, AND not using SystemD

Come on man.
Replies: >>175
>>105
>including the devs calling people who don't use systemd sexists and racists
[citation needed]
Replies: >>169
>>109
Differen't inits didn't break stuff for me when I used Gentoo + OpenRC and Void + runit. Not sure about Devuan as I haven't used it yet.
Replies: >>165
>>164
>Differen't
*Different
>>163
I know for certain that Lennart Poettering called anti-systemd people sexists in a Google+, can't remember if he called them racists in that post too but it wouldn't surprise me.
>>118
I'm not an authority on non-systemd distros. I though NixOS didn't have systemd but apparently it does. I just gave a couple of distros off the top of my head.

Could someone tell me why a regular use would need systemd? I've never really used it but OpenRC does absolutely fine. I start, stop, and restart services. What else does a regular use want? I can understand maybe sysadmins want something more standardised.
Replies: >>181 >>187
>>175
>I can understand maybe sysadmins want something more standardised
That's the point. Instead of maintaining several different options, the board that maintains direction of essential Linux software development chose to just give Poetteringware reign over the ecosystem to streamline everything. Sysadmin or not, systemdick will get shoved down your throat and you will like it. This top-down direction of events is also why other Linux software devs started making systemd components a mandatory dependency, resulting in shims and hacks from distros like Debian, Artix etc. I understand the sysadmin reasons for the change: things like special snowflake boot and service management in enterprise setups coded by retarded pajeets. But this will result in never being able to switch off the One True Init System, even if it becomes completely ridden by exploits and bugs. OpenRC turns into a viable alternative for absolutely everyone? Too bad, it breaks policykitd, logond, whateverthefuckd and the entire kitchensinkd. And come on you guys, do you really want to reinvent the wheel again? Just let Lennart take care of things :^)

The future of Linux is a shittier Windows, because of zero security in window management systems still, which fucks desktop users (X or Wayland, doesn't matter) and no incredibly long backwards compatibility support despite fucking over the flexibility Linux offers over Windows, which fucks server operators.
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Replies: >>186
Hoenstly, I don't hate systemd, the biggest issue is that it has become "standard" and retards have started to add systemd as a dependency for packages even when there's no reason it would be required. Live and let live.

>>183
if you want the unix way you should be using *bsd
Replies: >>208
>>175
Doesn't OpenRC have a utility to convert systemd units to whatever mutant shell syntax it uses? It's not even about standardization, it's about freezing out small contributors so when something goes wrong you have to pay Red Hat to fix it.
>>105
this.

Why would anyone want to use init system that includes stuff like (shitty) logging daemon, cron, sudo, bootloader, NTP client, etc. stuff that you don't need or even care about? The systemd developers downplay bugs (muh not a bug, muh wontfix) Also, remember when systemd developers tried to add their shitty and bioluminescent IPC (kdbus) into the Linux kernel? To make things even worse, IIRC, the only reason why systemdicks developers tried to push kdbus was that they were simply too lazy/incompetent to add some feature to systemd ("it should be called SystemD/Linux")
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>>186
dc7068f9e8a1346d05fd1e8a0880cc76288e941de4fc78936fcad85ab336dfa2.png
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HOW DO I GET ANKI 2.35 RUNNING ON SOMETHING THAT ISN'T SYSTEMD
WHY DOES THIS REQUIRE SYSTEMD
PRETTY FUCKING SURE IT'S QT5-WEBENGINE OR SOME SHIT WHY THE FUCK DOES THAT REQUIRE SYSTEMD
I HAVE EVERYTHING ABOUT MY OS PERFECTLY TUNED EXCEPT I CAN'T USE THIS SHITTY FLASHCARD APPLICATION TO LEARN MOONRUNES BECAUSE IT REQUIRES THAT MY SYSTEM'S INIT BE SYSTEMD
Replies: >>258 >>270
>>257
2.1.35* my bad
Replies: >>259
>>258
Why 2.1.35? 2.1.15 can be emerged without systemd and rust.
Replies: >>264
>>259
2.1.15 has an issue with audio playing that isn't rectified until I think 2.1.16. And systemd and rust is required after 2.1.16. And also a ton of gay ass extensions require more recent versions. But anything above 2.1.16 would be good for me because that audio bug is atrocious. I use void, for a while I've been running Arch in a VM just to use Anki, occasionally seeing if I can figure out how to compile a recent version without much knowledge.
>>257
What's your distro? I made a dependency tree for Anki and the offenders are, as you've guessed, QT5 packages. Namely, qt5-base and qt5-webengine. But that's because they've been compiled to work with your distro's init, i.e. they depend on systemdicked dbus, util-linux and p11-kit. Unless they snuck something in their Rust code as well, any non-systemD distro that ships their own qt5 meta package with necessary flags (or you compile your own if you're on Gentoo) should support Anki. If compiling is not your thing, there is, for example, Artix.
You could prepare a separate installation of whatever distribution of GNU/Linux you prefer in a virtual machine dedicated to this purpose specifically which will have systemd so you can run anki in that machine, if you do not want systemd to touch your actual machine.

34 replies | 8 files
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