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I see libertarian sentiment slowly making a comeback while this culture war has been going on and reactionaries have routinely disappointed people by either going way too far or just being obvious grifts. The Mises people (Institute, not Caucus) are still going strong. This all has shades of the Paleo Strategy, which Murray Rothbard and Lew Rockwell would regret soon after the paleocons had irreconcilable differences with them and compromised on far too much.
Replies: >>704 >>733
paleo libertarians are similar to reactionaries, reactionaries are allies of libertarians, because both hate the state, like gold standard and love private property and natural rights. fascism is not reactionary, is revolutionary.
Replies: >>705
>>702 (OP) 
>I think the Libertarian/Fascist pipeline is a dead meme
It's only christian libertarians really. They get obsessed with satanism and demons and muh jews and then slide into fascism from there. This is basically how severe mental illness manifests on the right. On the left they cut their dicks off and spreg about the 300 genders. On the right they unironically talk about abortion being ritual sacrifice to muloch so the daemons can revive the nephilim and fulfill some biblical prophecy or other. Christians are the right-wing's equivalent of trannies at this point. The fascists can take as many as they want.
Replies: >>718
>>703
Not really. Reactionaries always eventually roll into facsism and authoritarianism. Their reactionary views are eventually compensated for with some form of a state to combat "social issues". It always ends up like this, it's pure poison and brainrot.

Is it good to be anti-progressive? Yes, but you do not need to achieve this by being a reactionary conservative. This is why meme of a pipeline even exists, they can't tone it down for just a few moments and always descend into extremism. The "libertarians" that are reactionaries are in-name only and many often denounce libertarian and anarcho-capitalist theory.  We cannot be allies.
Replies: >>706 >>718
>>705
>Pete Quinones
>Top Lobsta
>Marc Clair
>John Odermatt
Even Tom Woods is still in contact with Pete and dropped the word libertarian from his podcast intro. Every prominent person on the "post-libertarian" train is a fucking christian who babbles about "jesus this" and "demons that".

What atheist "reactionaries" are you talking about.
Replies: >>708 >>712
>>706
Tom Woods is abandoning libertarianism?
Replies: >>716
>>706
Sounds like christians are to libertarians what jews are to fascists.
Replies: >>718
>>708
Nevermind. Anon misrepresented Woods. He has an entirely new intro but his entire website and podcast are all about promoting anarcho-capitalism and libertarian beliefs.
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>>704
>>705
>>712
I'm talking about these guys, which are probably the more radical reactionaries out there. Libertarians like Rothbard like them a lot, i suggest reading history of economic thought by rothbard btw. And they don't "slide" into fascism. They actually think this: 
(i translated this text using Yandex and i corrected a few mistakes manually, so if something sound weird is because that, also is from a random article i found) 

------------------

"All this unfortunate set of irreverences and violence were verified with such an intervention of party members and insignias, with such unanimity from one end of Italy to the other, and with such condescension from the authorities and the public security forces, that it was necessary to think of dispositions from above (Pius XI).

I would like, given the ambiguity of the title of this article, to begin with this phrase of Pius XI to clear up any doubts that may arise about the legitimacy of fascism as an ideology. There are many who, disgusted by the current system, are going to quench their thirst for truth and justice in the swampy fascist fountains. I would therefore like to point out some brief notes on the subject to clarify this situation.

The ideological basis of fascism

Fascism is an ideology, that is, a biased and misleading interpretation of reality based on previous assumptions. The emergence of fascism as such must be studied in the historical context in which it develops. The so-called interwar period was characterized by an undeniable liberal pride and a stark arrogance of the victorious powers. Faced with the situation of total crisis, some nuclei of response to the system emerge, standing as opposed to the liberal system. However, these nuclei of resistances have one main characteristic, and that is the concern for the popular masses (heavily affected by the conflict). This will not lead them to be swallowed up by the red giant that Soviet Marxism represents, but to propose a different system (later we will see that the conformation of fascism at no time remains totally alien to these ideologies).

We must go back to a fundamental thinker in the history of the rise of fascism, without whom we will understand absolutely nothing: Hegel. Undoubtedly in Hegel we see a lot of the philosophical matrix that operates in fascism. Hegel is the father of dialectics, which he maintains that through the formation of the antithesis as a reaction to the thesis, synthesis arises from the confrontation between the two, thus materializing the progress of society. This phenomenon is the one that underlies the development of fascist thought, where the thesis would be identified with classical liberalism, the Marxist antithesis would emerge as a reaction and it would be the fascist synthesis that would emerge from the ruins of the confrontation between the two. Thus it is perfectly appreciable that fascism is nothing more than a transformation of modern thought (1), which through the revolutionary essence of modernity, would re-emerge as the liberating regime of the preceding.

Once the philosophical basis of fascism has been established, let's now turn to an aspect that, being ideological, has very clear political repercussions: nationalism. It is no coincidence that Italy and Germany hosted these very particular regimes, being powers whose formation is more or less even. And it is that in the process of unification and shaping of both, nationalism was used as an instrument that guaranteed the success of the process. Nationalism, having the will to substantiate its own nation, aims at the search for its own and characteristic elements such as language, race, customs ... Once substantiated, nationalism will carry out the sublimation of the nation, becoming a substance that can absorb and nullify individuals (2). Thus we see that the individual, once the nation has been configured, does not have a considerable weight in it, now the nation is substantial and permanent (3). Throughout the modern age the conformation of the modern State and its gradual absorption of the power of the kings, the State and the nation were intermingled originating a thorny concept. When the nation is exalted in nationalism, its modern assimilation with the State will lead to an absolute State: “Everything in the State, nothing against the State, nothing outside the State” (4).

As far as economics is concerned, they start, in order to attack liberal capitalism, from the analysis of Marxism. In fact, the socialist element remains latent in fascism itself: Socialism means the elevation and purification of individual consciousness, and its implantation will be the result of a long series of efforts. Everyone, in fact, from the professional to the worker, can put a stone in this building, performing a socialist act every day and thus preparing the overthrow of the existing society (5). Although it is true that they do not share Marxism in a total way, they do share much of their economic analysis. This is an incorrectness because Marx carries out the Hegelian dialectic, but from a materialistic perspective (unlike Hegel, who oriented it to the Spirit). The materialistic interpretation, by leaving the supernatural realm aside, lacks an acceptable similarity with reality.

The mistakes of fascism

Very briefly I would like to focus the study now on the most significant errors of fascism itself in order to clarify the issue:

    Acceptance of the modern state, being this sublimated by resorting to nationalism.

    Revolutionary dynamics, contrary to the development of Tradition and reaction (whose goal is natural and supernatural restoration).
    Acceptance of the principle of modern sovereignty. The problem of this has already been explained previously (6).
    Rupture of the classical concept of politics, leaving it monopolized by the party.
    An attack on the principle of subsidiarity by advocating statism, implicitly or explicitly. We must remember that the principle of subsidiarity is one of the pillars of the Church's Social Doctrine.
    Nationalist conception of the political community, contrary to the patriotic natural order (substituting the importance of the end of the community for its origin and essence (7)).
    Liberating voluntarism. For fascism, the state is conceived as an entity that in the exercise of the will grants an element of liberation to the people (closely related to the cult of the leader).
    Caesaropapism. The Church is relegated from the role that corresponds to her in society (indirect power on the temporal plane), being therefore subjected to the directives of the State (8).
    Religion subordinated to the nation itself. The place that belongs to God, to the Church and to the natural order is taken by that which arises spontaneously from the substantive human collectivity (9).
    Vitalistic loopholes in the cult of strength, youth, passion…


I understand that the brevity of this article does not allow me to continue listing, so we will leave the listing here.

Conclusion

In conclusion, it is necessary to remember that any attempt to deny and combat the modern world must obviously be carried out from doctrinal premises alien to modernity itself. Thus, the answer to the modern world necessarily passes through Tradition, understood in its total and binding dimension. Well, as Professor Rafael Gambra said (referring to fascism), by going back to distant traditions (Roman Empire, Catholic Monarchs...) they lose the duty of transmitting it (10). Therefore, going back to Tradition implies its direct restoration where it was usurped, that is, in the traditional and representative monarchy."
Replies: >>720
>>718
>I'm talking about these guys,
Who?

>Libertarians like Rothbard like them a lot
>random article i found
If you want to claim Rothbard said something you have to quote Rothbard.

Rothbard tried to form a political alliance with paleo-conservatives in the 90s that doesn't mean he was a fascist.

Anarcho Capitalism is literally the opposite of National Socialism
>fascism: collectivist
<ancaps: individualist
>fascism: socialist
<ancaps: free markets
>fascism: authoritarian
<ancaps: libertarian
>fascism: state is everything
<ancaps: fuck the state
Replies: >>721
Austrian_Perspective_on_the_History_of_Economic_Thought_1_Economic_Thought_Before_Adam_Smith.pdf
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>>720
>Who?
Traditionalists
>If you want to claim Rothbard said something you have to quote Rothbard.
Chapter 5 of his book, history of economic thought. But his whole book is a defense of catholicism and natural law in opposition to the liberal state.
Replies: >>722
>>721
>Traditionalists
Then why are you posting shit about fascists. Rothbard was against everything about fascism except the social conservatism part.  We can do the social conservatism part without the rest of your collectivist, socialist, statist cancer.
Replies: >>726 >>727
>>722
Most traditionalists online shill for authoritarianism. Trad shit shouldn't be the face of the libertarian movement, it should be in the background.
Replies: >>727
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>>722
>Then why are you posting shit about fascists. Rothbard was against everything about fascism except the social conservatism part.  We can do the social conservatism part without the rest of your collectivist, socialist, statist cancer.
I said it was a traditionalist text about fascism, and did you read it? the text doesn't even support fascism, hates it. And i am not nor a traditionalist nor a fascist. I just were sharing that.
>>726
Well, libertarians can learn a lot from traditionalists, for example, this author, Alvaro d'Ors, calls to fiscal subversion and explains the tricks you have to do to stop the bureaucratic machinery of the state, reclaims tyrannicide as the biggest apportation of the catholic church to the political thought. (His form of government is not the Republic or the Monarchy, is the government of God Father, that's the level of how a reactionary this man was) So, we have this man who called openly to evade taxes and to civil disobedience, I don't know, but that sounds very libertarian. In other things we can discern, but in this point is very clear. For example, Erik von Kuehnelt-Leddihn (this man is a libertarian of the austrian school) talks about how liberals were proud to have been the ones that created the nation-state meanwhile these ones opposed to it. 
If the modern libertarian basic idea relies in attacking the state, then is very interesting the concept of state of those guys, they hate the state, the sate is an abstraction, the traditionalist thought tends to hate on the ideas that have lead to the sovereign State: the thought of Luther, Machiavelli, Bodin, Hobbes, Spinoza, Rousseau, Sièyes
John Calhoun, vice-president of the united states, defensor of slavery (this man is not a traditionalist, but more like a classical anglo-conservative) said (in "disquisitions against the state", very short book) that the state is just a mob that steals. This is the usual classic conservative vision of the state, even if they defend it, they say it as how it is. Saint Augustine compares the state with a gang of bandits, this is the classic vision of the catholic church, in the book of Samuel, god averts the jews what is going to happen if they have a god, and they didn't listen to him, so they deserved what happened to them (it ended bad).
The classical way of legitimate the power was divine legitimacy, it was a form that restricted the power that limited the very power in itself, because the king executes the law but don't make the law because the law is already made, the king can't change the law willingly. Meanwhile today, every low rank politician can make laws, because the is the man who mades the law. Divine legitimacy is a fixed one and popular legitimacy is a one who changes arbitrarily. Another thing is popular representation. Now people vote to a dude and that dude becomes the representative and now can makes what he wants without consequences. Back then for example, there was a King that wanted to collect a tax, and went to the courts of a city and was stoned out of there, then he went to another city and managed to collect the taxes bribing the procurators, but later the procurators were hanged in their towns for breaking the Sacred principle of the imperative mandate, they couldn't do what they wanted. That was the traditional vision of imperative mandate, that they don't represent anyone.
picrel because i noticed that all of the things i say are similar in argument to the shit Hoppe says in that book.
Replies: >>731
>>727
>did you read it?
No why would I read something that's more than 10 lines.

>libertarians can learn a lot from traditionalists something something theocracy
No. On the surface traditional values like family first, gender roles etc. are superior to progressive values like everyone should be a gay trans feminist. But then the jesusfags start talking about demons and nephilim and muh prophecy and everything-I-don't-like-is-satanism and you realize they are just as mentally ill and detached from reality as the rainbow cult.

In my mind they are equivalent at this point. If you want to cut off your dick and pretend you're a woman then go ahead. If you want to worship your childish sky daddy then go ahead. Either we work together on the principles of liberty and then you fuck off. Or you skip straight to fucking off part now. Either way I don't give a fuck about your so called "culture".

I do like your picrel though
>>702 (OP) 
The libertarian to fascist pipeline was just a psyop to get libertarians back into statism.
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