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Howdy fellow autists (auatrians)! Dont normally post in liberty boards but this one seems nice and has some non-retarded people so ill give it a shot.

Let's stop infighting and making the same theoretical arguments over and over again and discuss something new. There is enough theory already! Let us discuss ancap praxis; how should freedom best be achieved...

The greatest failure of modern lolbertarianism has been its utter lack of any practical means to establiah freedom. Rothbard himself had lots of failed aliances, Hoppe had a few, Rand was Rand. Now everything has stagnated and all iq has been deposited into intellectual boomer circlejerks in Mises Institute and the PFS, who's only purpose is to ejaculate this autismo economics onto young impressionable college students. They have never even heard of Monero! All the cool edgy kids now read Moldbug instead.

What we want is one single free community! Afterwards land can be purchased from neighbouring states, thats not a big concern after sovergnty is established. But how has libertarianism existed for this long without a single successful experiment? 69 years after the communisy manifesto we got the bolshevik revolution. Its been 50 years since For a New Liberty, and what have we got to show for it? Free state project and the crypto grifters and larpers in liberland? When Brazil is driving the movement, you know its bad.

Here is my promt for a productive discussion: what are in your opinion the most feasable strategies for liberty in our lifetime? The aim is for a stable and ultraconservative, homogeneous community, with posibility for future territorial expansion. No retarded larps of liberland or seasteading or mars or muh online communities. I will list some good and bad strategies for you to rank. Motivate your rankings!

National libertarian party politics
Gun proliferation
Ghost guns
Digital freedom/copyleft movement
Underground militias
Vote with ones feet
Homesteading unclaimed land
Declaring a micronation
Ideological debate and discourse
Local politics
Self-sufficiency and owning land
Getting hella buff and picking fights with antifa
Uniting with ethnonationalists
Muh states rights
Debating glowies and bots on discord and /pol/
Forcing your friends to read Rothbard
Monero & cryptocurrency
Im sure i forgot some

Have fun! I will come back eventually with my thoughts and write essays on some of these. Eventually that can be turned into a book, that would be cool.
Replies: >>118
Alright praxis is always a fun conversation to have. Let's give it a shot. Ranking from worst to best.

>Getting hella buff and picking fights with antifa
>Uniting with ethnonationalists
I don't think I should detail these, violence is not the solution.
>Debating glowies and bots on discord and /pol/
This is only a waste of resources for both sides

>Good intentions, but not really feasible
>Homesteading unclaimed land
>Declaring a micronation
>Ideological debate and discourse
>Local politics
>Muh states rights
>National libertarian party politics
These are all either tried and failed, or not really an option anymore. We are not in the 1800s, you cannot just sail West and make a new nation.

>Good intentions, minimal impact
I'd rather go for charter tbh. This is good for avoiding some propaganda, but your child isn't your property. He/She must be properly educated in all aspects from multiple people to be a proper human being. Most people came to be pro-liberty without being homeschooled either way.
>Forcing your friends to read Rothbard
Based, I've been doing this for the past years, as well as casually dropping hardcore, but innocuous Austrian points. Do bring it up in conversations. But this is more that you have a good local social network rather than changing anything. Buerocrats are gonna buerocrat. Statists are gonna statists. But at least your friends will have a positive local impact, and will be less likely to fall into degenerative behavior. 
Again, kind of the same as before imo. It's good. Do it. But it will help you more by making your properly understand your points when writing rather than to have a large impact.

>Might work with proper execution
>Underground militias
>Gun proliferation
Nothing more to say. Organized militia can definitely help a lot if the time comes.
>Vote with ones feet
What people don't realize is that there are many regions inside and outside of the USA which are already more freedom oriented than the rest of the world, whether by intention or not. Usually small in size, but some will serve as hubs for pro-liberty people.

>Will work with proper execution/already worked
>Ghost guns
>Digital freedom/copyleft movement
>Monero & cryptocurrency
I'm not even an explicit agorist, but the track record can't be denied. Torrenting did more to abolish IP than the LP or Kinsella podcasts over a shorter amount of time than we could've imagined. The same way ghost guns did more to gun rights than all gun rights advocacy outside the USA combined. I credit two factors with this
>these technologies are implicitly "freedom-tech", so anyone and everyone can join in, but getting involved will require to adopt a pro-liberty mindset
>these technologies bypass legislature and State control
And these are incredibly powerful because they fix inherent problems with other pro-liberty tactics. People are required to explicitly commit to oftentimes negative or fringe labels, and anything you do will oftentimes be limited by the law, something that is antithetical to anything pro-liberty.

>wtf tier
I don't even know how is this supposed to be a strategy tbf.

Well these are my two cents, What do you think? Maybe we can get some activity on this board even.
Replies: >>112 >>118 >>378
Thank you for the response anon

good points, i disagree on some aspects, so i will mention those, but mostly i agree...

Yes promoting violence is for glowies only. However, politicians having consequences and being scared is a good thing. Often regime change can be most easily accomplished by a leader dying or getting killed, altho the consequences are not guaranteed to be better or worse. Certainly when the US gets rid of a foreign dictator, they tend to install a worse one. End of the day, every government depends on the support of its people, no matter the structure.

>Debating glowies and bots on discord and /pol/
In general debating politics is a waste of time. Actions speak louder than words. Same goes for writing. If writing does not inspire action, its useless.

I agree that schooling is mostly tangential to liberty. However, disassociating from the state is always good. You can't expect your kids to be creative, and have any intelligence if you send them to public schools. They will get raped, bullied by the teachers, they will get pumped full of drugs if they dont listen. I think charters are better sure, but not as good as homeschooling, or no schooling at all... Rothbard did make this point about education not being the same as formal schooling, you get educated doing anything. Charter schools tend to be even more strict and more accountable to the government, thats the price they pay for being independent, and being state funded you should expect them to always be pro state. Traditional schooling is really bad for your kids anyways, my kids wont go to a school until they are 16 or so, and decide they want to for some reason. Worst case you can always get a tutor if your kid is interested in something you are not proficient in, and they cant self-study. Imo public school < charter < private < homeschooling < no schooling. Yes if your kid wants to be a doctor or lawyer, they will need to go to school as adults. Make sure they know the price tho.
>your child isn't your property
sure a kid is free to leave the household at any time. doesnt mean you cant bring up kids according to your own values. bringing up a kid with your values is much better than having a tranny state bureaucrat brainwash them. in general just dont give your kids to state agents.

>Underground militias
good but they often have retarded ideologies. also constantly infiltrated by glowies. idk i just dont see how they would achieve much. A violent secession would not work. If you want to secede, do so peacefully and make the parent state be the aggressor if they refuse to accept it. Then
>Gun proliferation
becomes important. This is based, ghost guns are good. But guns are not an end in themselves, they merely help keep the state at bay if a mass popular cause such as a state secession happens. I think guns for guns sake is a waste of time tho.
>Vote with ones feet
Yes this is in theory one of the best strategies when paired with secession, more on this later. However, simply moving to a random community and larping isnt very productive. Moving needs to be natural, people tend to naturally self-segregate into communities by race, religion etc. Thats why FSP is such a meme, it has not accomplished much. (also why NH over vermont, vermont has half the population so the movement wouldve been twice as influential)

This is great, and the nature of the internet is inherently anti-copyright. Abolishing copyright is nice, and can be done from the comfort of your home. Also make sure you stay anonymous, try whonix or tails if you want an easy solution. What is needed is simple and normie friendly tech that is basically one click of a button, to access content for free. Imagine something that looks exactly like netflix or spotify, but free. Under the hood it needs to do lots to not get taken down, but the tech for that is out there (ipfs, torrent, i2p, etc). The biggest failure of almost all projects is not being normie friendly. For the average person, getting a vpn, going on torrent site, using qbittorrent and then using a video player to watch content, is 10000 harder than paying for netflix. If apps like this are made netflix, spotify, steam and so on, large parts of hollywood and corporate press would go bankrupt. That being said, this is a nice to have and a noble goal, but wont achieve liberty per se.

Now as where copyright can be crippled with the use of software and the internet, monero is a lot more powerful, as it can be used to take over the banking system, and end inflation. There are some things in the way of this.  Something not discussed at all from what ive seen is the arbitrary 0.6 xmr block reward. This value, and in general the rate of inflation of the whole network, is crucial to its ability to replace the global financial system. Im not smart enough to figure it out rn, and the average age of an austrian economist is deceased, hence they dont know what a monero is. So no one is really gonna figure it out unless i do. The issue, to put it briefly, is that the 0.6xmr is the total price per block for securing the network. Imagine if the whole world ran on monero, the price is hard set at roughly one 30-milionth of the whole economy, per two minutes (block time). On one hand this is very high, so much of the world resources get wasted on purpose on electricity. On the other hand it might be way too low, as that is the price in electricity, that it would cost a bad actor to overtake the network. The core issues stems from this being an arbitrary value, and not a market price. However this is not as easy to turn into a market price, because the 0.6 monero isnt transfered voluntarily from a payer, but is rather algorithmically guaranteed, and created out of thin air. Normal supply and demand dont apply. Praxeology needs to be extended to deal with this, this being essentially game theory, and Rothbard did say that game theory was one of the fields of praxeology, and he was right. 

Anyhow enough schizo ramblings, building finance outside the government is always good. But dont fall for grifters, most crypto projects are terrible, including most big ones. Dont use bitcoin for obvious reasons. Also because monero is the only reasonable crypto at the moment, it is already used on dark net marketplaces. And using it for real purchases as opposed to a bunch of wanna get-rich-quick wagies and investors being the core of the demand, already makes it more stable than almost any crypto. Look at this for yourselves! Monero correlates with the us dollar better than most (all?) major cryptos. Another thing that im skeptical of is de-fi, i suspect a large chunk of it is ponzy schemes if youre smart enough to see thru it. The economic issue here is that the core of the financial system, banks in particular, is lending. And lending requires knowing the risk you take, and assigning credit to your lendee. This makes it inherently non-anonymous. That doesnt mean all loans must be public, but certainly all loans cannot be p2p anonymous. Only once economics and praxeology, as well as game theory, is well understood, can someone build defi properly.

this is low iq accelerationism, not the actual Landian idea. Basically, just like communism eventually will collapse, so will democratic socialism (liberalism). So therefore one strategy is to encourage and accelerate this process, encourage more government until it cant sustain itself anymore. This is meme-tier tho.
Whats not meme tier is encouraging polarization. Polarization is increasing fast, and thats a good thing, thats the only thing that can lead to

you didnt mention this in your answer, sad :( this is not the same as voting with ones feet either. I think secession and national divorce is the best strategy by far, and a much more permanent one at that. But im too lazy to write more about this now, ill save it for next time.
Replies: >>125
Regarding secession, let me quote hoppe first:

How can they [insurance agencies] be freed from these regulations? Essentially, the answer to this question is the same as that given by the American revolutionaries more than two-hundred years ago: through the creation of free territories and by means of secession.

...under the current conditions one's strategy must be one of a bottom-up revolution. At first, the realization of this insight would seem to make the task of a liberal-libertarian social revolution impossible. For does this not imply that one would have to persuade a majority of the public to vote for the abolition of democracy and an end to all taxes and legislation? And is this not sheer fantasy, given that the masses are always dull and indolent, and even more so given that democracy, as explained above, promotes moral and intellectual degeneration? How in the world can anyone expect that a majority of an increasingly degenerate people accustomed to the "right" to vote should ever voluntarily renounce the opportunity of looting other people's property? Put this way, one must admit that the prospect of a social revolution must indeed be regarded as virtually nil. Rather, it is only on second thought, upon regarding secession as an integral part of any bottom-up strategy, that the task of a liberal-libertarian revolution appears less than impossible, even if it still remains a daunting one.

...every government can be brought down by a mere change in public opinion, i.e., by the withdrawal of the public's consent and cooperation. And while it is undeniably true that after more than two centuries of democracy the American public has become so degenerate, morally and intellectually, that any such withdrawal must be considered impossible on a nationwide scale, it would not seem insurmountably difficult to win a secessionist-minded majority in sufficiently small districts or regions of the country. In fact, given an energetic minority of intellectual elites inspired by the vision of a free society in which law and order is provided by competitive insurers, and given furthermore that—certainly in the U.S., which owes its very existence to a secessionist act—secession is still held to be legitimate and in accordance with the "original" democratic ideal of self-determination (rather than majority rule) by a substantial number of people, there seems to be nothing unrealistic about assuming that such secessionist majorities exist or can be created at hundreds of locations all over the country. In fact, under the rather realistic assumption that the U.S. central government as well as the social-democratic states of the West in general are bound for economic bankruptcy (much like the socialist peoples' democracies of the East collapsed economically some ten years ago), present tendencies toward political disintegration will likely be strengthened in the future. Accordingly, the number of potential secessionist regions will continue to rise, even beyond its current level. appears strategically advisable not to attempt again what in 1861 failed so painfully: for contiguous states or even the entire South trying to break away from the tyranny of Washington, D.C. Rather, a modern liberal-libertarian strategy of secession should take its cues from the European Middle Ages when, from about the twelfth until well into the seventeenth century (with the emergence of the modern central state), Europe was characterized by the existence of hundreds of free and independent cities, interspersed into a predominantly feudal social structure. By choosing this model and striving to create a U.S. punctuated by a large and increasing number of territorially disconnected free cities—a multitude of Hong Kongs, Singapores, Monacos, and Liechtensteins strewn out over the entire continent—two otherwise unattainable but central objectives can be accomplished. First, besides recognizing the fact that the liberal-libertarian potential is distributed highly unevenly across the country, such a strategy of piecemeal withdrawal renders secession less threatening politically, socially and economically Second, by pursuing this strategy simultaneously at a great number of locations all over the country, it becomes exceedingly difficult for the central state to create a unified opposition in public opinion to the secessionists which would secure the level of popular support and voluntary cooperation necessary for a successful crackdown.

If and only if we succeed in this endeavor, if we then proceed to return all public property into appropriate private hands and adopt a new "constitution" which declares all taxation and legislation henceforth unlawful, and if we then finally allow insurance agencies to do what they are destined to do, can we truly be proud again and will America be justified in claiming to provide an example to the rest of the world.
>>102 (OP) 
My only beef with Agorism is that running an illegal/underground business is easier said than done. You need to know your customers and trust that they will not snitch on you. But with that said, it's something that most everybody does already just not on a large, ideological scale. I bet most people don't include yard-sales or side-work on their taxes. You could encourage local trading networks with you neighbor. Trading produce for other produce, or services like mowing lawns or raking leaves.

>These are all either tried and failed, or not really an option anymore. We are not in the 1800s, you cannot just sail West and make a new nation.
We could try seasteading, but from what the Chad and Nadia situation in 2019 showed us, at least some nation-states will still intervene, and I bet they will use "muh environmentalism" as an excuse.
>For the average person, getting a vpn, going on torrent site, using qbittorrent and then using a video player to watch content, is 10000 harder than paying for netflix.
Normies paying for VPN to bypass cuckflix region restrictions.
>What we want is one single free community!


>ultraconservative, homogeneous community

Replies: >>175 >>378 >>379
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How about we start researching desert greening and turn Bir Tawil into ancapitstan?
Replies: >>158
Easier said than done. Also, you don't need to build an ancap community on a literal no-man's land, just one far enough that the state wouldn't bother to reach you.
Replies: >>175
>What we want is one single free community!
>ultraconservative, homogeneous community
You can have both. Freedom means doing what you want with your property which includes not letting people you don't like use it or buy it. In reality the market will punish you for discriminating against people for non-economic reasons but maximizing profit is not the only thing that matters to most people.

>you don't need to build an ancap community on a literal no-man's land, just one far enough that the state wouldn't bother to reach you.
Or within a state that you can bribe and/or credibly defend yourself from. Titus Gebel's Free Private Cities is a good read.
Replies: >>179
>Or within a state that you can bribe and/or credibly defend yourself from.
How do we make sure that they don't betray us later? That's my main concern with these so called "Free Private Cities".
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Ethonocentrism and liberty are not at odds in principle; regardless of political/statist views, state borders and military are of neccessity or it will fall the moment another wishes to take up arms against you. As such enforcing ethnocentrism is little more than simply controlling what people, if any (after establishment), can emigrate to a nation, i.e maintaining your border. This makes no active imposition on the citiziens in those borders and thus has no impact on the freedom of the nation, if others want that freedom too then they can seek it for themselves. Likewise if there's some aspect of another nation that one wishes to interface with, they can travel for it, which indeed is the only way to do so in an authentic manner anyways.

Practically speaking, problems emerge on two main points:
>Drawing the line and limits to the extent you can do such in light of contemporary affairs.
>Most modern ethnoncentrists are prudes and thus not the kind to uphold liberty, yet are clearly the ones who would initially arrive. 

The first is defining the line: in the context of europeans, my perception is that historically we have been apart from one another and though largely influencing eachother and occasionally under the same flag didn't intermix too frequently (or at least not beyond immediate geographic adjacency) and generally had a people preserved regardless of border shifts due to language differences, as with the rest of the world, as well as similar capacities. However in the present, ignoring heightened rates of intermixing, I seriously doubt you could create a seperate ethnostate for every european, and if you subdivide the land of one nation for such while still allowing travel between to attempt the same result then suddenly you are requiring constant imposition on the people and thus violating the above going against liberty, and needless to say reestablishing big government. As such for europeans to achieve an ethnostate practically it has to take a broader definition, and likely lose the variance in language as a result. Which for my part is good enough but isn't really true to the ideal. Asians are a different context and I'm not as aware of their practicality but they seem to have inversed issues, while they are still more ethnocentric on average and highly populous for proper scale, they lack available land and seem to have a greater tendency to willingly participate in societal rat races as cogs in a larger machine for sake of status which aligns with statist societies.
I think the second is self explanatory by the tendency for it to be aligned with fascism.

Anyhow I think the original topic matter of this thread is much more pertinent and so to not derail further I'll try to go back to that though I have little to offer on the matter:
1. I think the attainability of libertarianism is largely assisted by that of technology and so consideration of attaining it outside of legal means by way of developing certain technologies to assist such is a major point, as >>105 alludes
2. While I think engaging with representative "democracy"(lol) is a terrible route, if it was tried it could be assisted by tying into common animosity and seccesionist desires for sake of votes, essentially bribing. For instance; in Canada, Quebec still has a substantial portion who would vote for secession (which they likely in actuality won the last time they voted) and they have a relatively large party whose sole purpose is pretty much that (bloc quebecois). As such you could play into this by prompting bloc quebecois to drop out of the race and refer all their voters to you or to directly transfer such (if that's legally possible) with the contractual stipulation that if you win you guarantee to establish their secession from Canada. At that point you gain not just those who align with you politcally but also a large portion of people who don't cause they don't care about your politics since they'll be seperate from them after you let them leave. Of course Canada is politcally a poor candidate (though should still be considered due to the mass of it's land alone) but just for example.
Replies: >>379 >>382 >>385
I would recommend not to focus too hard on racial autism or neocon values. Ultracuckservatives tend not to value actual freedom.
Replies: >>385
>This makes no active imposition on the citiziens in those borders and thus has no impact on the freedom of the nation
How ICE became a $2.8b domestic surveillance agency

The US Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agency has spent about $2.8 billion over the past 14 years on a massive surveillance "dragnet" that uses big data and facial-recognition technology to secretly spy on most Americans, according to a report from Georgetown Law's Center on Privacy and Technology.

The research took two years and included "hundreds" of Freedom of Information Act requests, along with reviews of ICE's contracting and procurement records. It details how ICE surveillance spending jumped from about $71 million annually in 2008 to about $388 million per year as of 2021. The network it has purchased with this $2.8 billion means that "ICE now operates as a domestic surveillance agency" and its methods cross "legal and ethical lines," the report concludes.

The agency pulls data from Department of Motor Vehicle records, calls, child welfare reports, employment records, geolocation information, health-care and housing records and social media reports, the report said.

In addition to accessing public agencies' records on individuals, ICE also buys customer records from utility companies through its contact with data brokers Thomson Reuters. This is because undocumented people may not want to provide their information to government bodies — like the DMV — because they fear deportation. But they still need to connect their homes to water, gas, electricity and internet services.

"For people who are not easily traceable via traditional sources," a cited Thomson Reuters marketing letter reads, "locator information from utility hookup records may provide the only current and accurate address and phone number data available."

These types of contracts with private data brokers have helped ICE amass utility records from more than 218 million customers across all 50 states and Washington, DC, according to the Georgetown researchers.

Access to all of this information, along with AI tools for scanning and analyzing huge data sets, has turned ICE into a modern-day domestic spy agency, the report suggested:

This includes using facial recognition technology to scan driver's license photographs of 32 percent of all adults in the US, the research said. In fact, ICE has access to driver's license data of 74 percent of US adults, and tracks the movements of cars in cities where nearly 70 percent of the adult population lives, it added.

Additionally, ICE was automatically alerted when 74 percent of US adults connected gas, electricity, phone or internet to a new home — thus providing the agency with their home addresses.

And as the researchers noted: "Almost all of that has been done warrantlessly and in secret."
Replies: >>385
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>I would recommend not to focus too hard on racial autism or neocon values.
Collectivism is brain damage but I'm not opposed to building bridges. If racialists want to live in a one-race community then freedom and property rights is an effective way of achieving that goal. They don't have to be our enemies. Most people are only our enemies because we're being forced to live under the same government.

>How ICE became a $2.8b domestic surveillance agency
That's an argument for why government doesn't work not why borders don't work.

>Ethonocentrism and liberty are not at odds in principle
Racism and the free market can go either way. Unjustified discrimination is going to cost you because competitors who don't give a fuck what color their customers are will rake in more business. On the other hand justified discrimination is rewarded, for example if most people of a certain race really are broke low IQ violent thugs then refusing to let them on your property would make you better off than the refugees welcome guy who gets robbed raped and killed.
If you want to spend your time productively, work out how the globalist letches got there in the first place and then put protections in place to further keep them out henceforth. Nothing has been worse for our society. As far as England and the English-speaking people goes, this payment in suffering that we're having to pay is worse than when we ourselves arrived on the boats to exploit the weak naivety of the Romano-Briton Vortigern. The blood over our hands is worse than our tumultuous founding was pre-Middle Ages.

Liberty will mean the ejection of the globalist class and their enablers. Do it with a vote, do it with a putsch, nobody cares at this point any more.
Replies: >>390
>work out how the globalist letches got there in the first place
They control the money printers. It's as simple as that. But if you try to take your country off their fake paper standard and onto a gold standard you will get democracy'ed a la Iraq and Libya.
Replies: >>394
If the plan is to get the fish in the tank to eat each other, this being somehow more profitable than peacetime is, then it's going to be difficult in countries which still have some holdout whites left in them, since such people are more likely to notice the man with the bucket pouring the vipers into the house and go for that man instead of just the snakes he's been bringing in.

In any case we're due some fighting and some upheaving. If robots aren't available to do the job then the third-worlders aren't going to cut it, since they are disloyal and inefficient.
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