keep minority spirit
The teen philosophy of "fuck da jan man" which dictates posters be free to post whatever and encourages conflict to strengthen the userbase is obviously a functional one. Lately its come under fire from teens abroad, but we've held the tide back. However, it doesn't matter how many times we blow them the fuck out when they just won't accept anything that doesn't agree with their narrative. I propose that we further refine our position in this thread to make the stance completely ironclad. I'll open with what I think is the biggest problem with jannies today:
They always apply their biases to their rules and twist them to mean whatever they want them to mean. This in turn leads to extreme subjectivity and inconsistency with moderation enforcement actions. Usually it comes down to them deleting things they don't like simply because they don't like it. In other cases they will hide or delete criticism to protect themselves. It always results in either alienating the users or better yet becoming the very thing they complain about! A personality board. What's more is that they completely lack the self awareness needed to understand how out of touch they've become, resulting in further detachment from everyone. Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. It doesn't help that the users who've stuck around long enough go along with it like nothing is out of the ordinary. They end up completely turning into a cargo cult in the process. We've seen it with both /v/s, we've seen it with julay, we've especially seen it with /a/, and now we're seeing it with pissu.
Whata fuck do we do bros? Continue to fight back against this faggotry? Give up on all them because it's all so tiresome? I've thought about it for a while, and I think I'm approaching my wit's end.
>Whata fuck do we do bros? Continue to fight back against this faggotry? Give up on all them because it's all so tiresome? I've thought about it for a while, and I think I'm approaching my wit's end.
Fighting is always worth it no matter the outcome even if just as a way to refine yourself.
I think ultimately we have to evolve in some way. It's not enough to try and conserve our increasingly eroding sphere, but we need a cultural revolution and be on the forefront of innovation. Maybe it's necessary to redefine the whole medium. This would be as much a technical issue as a social issue to solve.
>Fighting is always worth it no matter the outcome even if just as a way to refine yourself.
Meaningless fighting is just a waste of energy. Training in fighting is a way to refine yourself but to fight for the sake of it is folly.
It has become painfully clear that half-hearted measures do NOT and will NOT continue to work against the J. J. Janny menace. Once a member of High Mop Society with no moral quandaries or principles begins to use power on an esoteric obscure board their ego will begin to bloat uncontrollably out of any reasonable proportions. Soon after "reforms" follow, demonstrations of power, power trips and finally the board turns into their blog. Notable examples include: Mark's playground, Hoihoi's inclusive safe space, Seagull's "this OP is shit let's nuke the whole thread", Pissu, Ron Paul's stream place and NEN. The ONLY way to gloriously overcome these obstacles is VIOLENT SHITPOSTING WITH ATTITUDE. To think otherwise is a delusion.
To that end I propose a founding of the Council Of Concentrated Kill Spam, shortened as COCKS. COCKS would operate on a strict timetable (read: when j-words are asleep) and would be able to act as a MOBILE TASK FORCE to ELIMINATE THE COMFY DELUSION OF SAFE CIRCLEJERK as a raiding party spamming good content instead of the usual scat/gore shit spammers usually do, like DESU, KIGUS, FUN and FORCED DANCE THREADS. This MIGHT be a request for a personal army, but consider the FOLLOWING
FAITO ONN NIPAAH~~~
you get levelups depending on your growth rates every time you fight and level up it can't be that bad
I really want to skin and boil /jp/'s janny alive
Now that I've cooled off since the latest premeditated festivities, it's time to continue the serious discussions that I loathe. So far, I have laid out what I believe to be the biggest issue with moderators. Today I shall try to list possible solutions to that pungently pressing problem.
Starting with one I implement myself, a benevolent dictatorship. To paraphrase anon from the politics thread on /b/: It works great since there's nobody to stop you from making decisions. That means no inconsistency in moderation policy brought on by differing opinions either. In times of board war, it's especially necesssary. It's how I've been running every board/large server I've owned for years. As long as I manage to keep my greasy fingers away from buttons it's hard to be tempted into power tripping and becoming a tyrannical kike. The only other problem is that the board will remain peaceful until I abdicate the easy throne. That's why it's necessary to train a (((successor))) before it's too late. You may already recognize mine as my most prolific impersonator. It's nice having a body double that can take assassinations for you. The point is having a janny clique always bogs things down. They should be dismantled before your hobby project morphs into something unrecognizeable due to all the circlejerking. If you absolutely need one, then perhaps your site has grown too large for you to handle.
Increasing accountability is a strategy we tend to extol as well. This is currently achieved by publicizing all major actions, and all board logs. For janny teams, they should consider this as well as publicizing deletions. Most importantly, any criticism of them should not be censored in any way. This is to ensure that everyone remains responsible for their abuse of power, for better or for worse. A well established tactic of theirs is to move any meta discussion off to a hidden board that nobody reads. This draconian practice has to stop. They need to learn that whatever bullshit stance they take establishes a precedent for all posters. That's another reason why biases should not get in the way of moderation. Jannies should also not handle appeals for bans that they issued. That's just begging for bias to leak through. One proposed solution to this was to have a sort of internal affairs system for jannies. Where there is a team of jannies above the ones who moderate the board to moderate the jannies. That will hopefully ensure that appeals will be rightfully heard by someone who won't just dismiss it because they don't like the poster. It would also rein in any power tripping, assuming that they aren't as corrupt as the ones issuing the bans in the first place.
Less vague rules are needed too. For a solid foundation is required for any sort of consistency. Just look at how well the United States' constitution has held up. Lefties are still mad about it today! Too many times I have seen some incredibly obtuse ruleset which basically allow for the janny to do whatever they want whenever they want. I believe that we should strive to be better than large corporate terms of service agreements. To all the jannies in the audience I want you to ask yourself this - How many of those rules are actually necessary to maintain the function of your site? You'd be surprised at the true answer. At the very least you should attempt to minimize the subjectivity put into place solely to cover your own ass. When you are held responsible for your every move you will not fuck up nearly as much out of fear of being lynched. Trust me I know. Lose terms such as "low quality" and "shitposting" for there is no way for you to possibly define them accurately in every case. I would prefer no rules at all other than no illegal shit. However, if you are going to have them at LEAST be specific in what you are targeting. If you don't want frogs say so. If you don't want vtubers say so. If you don't want fun you'd better let me know so I can leave you alone because you're not worth saving.
tl;dr "WE FIGHT BECAUSE WE ARE NEEDED!"
All jannies must die.
>make jannies accountable
>less vague rules
I've thought about this before, but the problem with it is all of this is unenforceable.
If you don't create an official circlejerk, at some point one of your jannies will make one without telling you and start trying to turn the other jannies against you, which they'll succeed at because if they weren't vulnerable to that kind of manipulation they wouldn't want to be jannies.
The only ones who can make jannies accountable are other jannies, it's not like anons are gonna nut up and exodus without a catastrophic failure because otherwise it would have happened half a decade ago. This means increased accountability will never happen unless it comes through naked force, e.g. booting jannies the millisecond they fuck up. See point 1 for why this never happens in practice.
If you try to make your rules "less vague" you just end up encouraging pilpul to utterly assrape the spirit of the rules while frustrating anyone bound by the letter of the rules; this applies to both jannies and outside actors trying to gayop. I actually autistically tried to plot out a set of rules that would prevent jannies from being jannies, and I gave up because the same thing will happen every time: /cattle/ or a similar boogeyman will find a loophole, and use it to shit up the board.
If you delete his nigger dick spam he will call you a rulecuck and loudly whine to anyone above you that you're literally worse than double Hitler, then spam nigger dicks even harder in "protest." When he succeeds in getting your ass booted he will then use his fabulous circlejerk powers to take your place.
If you don't delete his nigger dick spam he'll loudly whine that you're not doing your job. When he succeeds in getting your ass booted he will then use his fabulous circlejerk powers to take your place.
You should know this already.
I've becomed convinced the only form of community moderation that can "work" is not benevolent dictatorship but enlightened despotism. Under enlightened despotism there is one rule, the only rule that ever applies: things I don't like go away. If you want people to put up with you, you give them examples of things you don't like so they can avoid your terrible wrath, but you don't have to because you are The Boss and everyone else can eat shit.
The dirty secret is this is how every community works, no matter what the rules page says or how "friendly" janny is, because ultimately the jannies have all the power and you can either bend the knee, go somewhere else lol or try to make them ragequit by shitting in their toybox. Only the latter seems to work in practice.
tl;dr pic related
This seems about right as far as experience goes. If there is not a circlejerk clique for power-hungry niggers then there will be one created in the future. Accountability for j-faggotry is never a priority, and it continues due its necessity in policing illegal shit.
Rule specificity will compound on itself every time a loophole is found, necessitating the rewriting of the rules within reason before posting itself becomes impossible.
However, I don't think the answer is a despotism. I think the answer is this:
Give everyone a fucking gun.
Give the power back to the people. The posters should be able to delete posts, ban everyone, fucking do what they please.
Not only would this eliminate the jannies as a necessity, it would also bring the circlejerk directly to the community where everyone can join in-- or destroy them due to their faggotry.
Anarchy would reign, and it would be as good as we would allow it to be.
Perhaps it would be not have to be just an Anarchy, but an Anarcho-Tyranny.
We could even elect this tyrant, this "Philosopher King" that is so necessary for easiness. He would have the power to bring back killed posts, change the "rules", and perhaps even revoke a faggot's right to bear arms if they break those rules.
>Perhaps it would be not have to be just an Anarchy
Yes, of course.
*Perhaps it would not have to be just an Anarchy.
>Give the power back to the people. The posters should be able to delete posts, ban everyone, fucking do what they please.
Huh funny, I was thinking about something similar if I were to host an imageboard. Mainly because I'm a lazy a fuck, though. Wonder how hard it would be to mod jschan to do this.
>If you don't create an official circlejerk, at some point one of your jannies will make one without telling you
Well that only applies if you have jannies other than yourself, which is to be avoided.
>You should know this already.
It's gay how people cite no rules as a reason to shit up boards, then proceed to shit up said board, and explain that it wouldn't have happened if there were rules.
Self moderation or just ignoring posts you don't like is probably the best solution. It was brought up a couple times for a pipe dream imageboard concept where the poster can either filter everyone they don't like or subscribe to community created janny lists. No longer would they have to rely on some arbiter of content. That'll never happen without someone willing to code it unfortunately.
>If you don't create an official circlejerk, at some point one of your jannies will make one without telling you and start trying to turn the other jannies against you, which they'll succeed at because if they weren't vulnerable to that kind of manipulation they wouldn't want to be jannies.
The difference is, if you're at the helm then it becomes your god-given duty to shitcan all of them because they're out of line. And then that's what happens, they get shitcanned and bitch about it.
>If you try to make your rules "less vague" you just end up encouraging pilpul to utterly assrape the spirit of the rules while frustrating anyone bound by the letter of the rules; this applies to both jannies and outside actors trying to gayop. I actually autistically tried to plot out a set of rules that would prevent jannies from being jannies, and I gave up because the same thing will happen every time: /cattle/ or a similar boogeyman will find a loophole, and use it to shit up the board.
This is silly. You make less vague rules for the benefit of the good faith posters, not bad faith posters. Once /cattle/ or whoever else starts to flood the board with their "epic dabbing on rules", freely get rid of them under "no spam" clause in the global rules. Or simply join the fun!
>If you delete his nigger dick spam he will call you a rulecuck and loudly whine to anyone above you that you're literally worse than double Hitler, then spam nigger dicks even harder in "protest." When he succeeds in getting your ass booted he will then use his fabulous circlejerk powers to take your place.
Spam is banned under global rules, which is already clearly defined. The "he's going to boot your ass through spam" is simply a measure of incompetence through which (You) view site or board owners. Stop that :^(
>I've becomed convinced the only form of community moderation that can "work" is not benevolent dictatorship but enlightened despotism. Under enlightened despotism there is one rule, the only rule that ever applies: things I don't like go away. If you want people to put up with you, you give them examples of things you don't like so they can avoid your terrible wrath, but you don't have to because you are The Boss and everyone else can eat shit.
Temper your temper, j-word apologissimo. There is no NEED to delete anything more than what's required for the site to stay up - and that is what already constitutes Global Rules. Are users mad that someone posted a wojack or sneed or some other garbage? They can shit on them however they want, with or without wielding proxies for massive damage. Is there a normalfag invasion? Post gore, goatse and lemonparty. It's like there's all this FUD, here's that and this and we're gonna lose our hapy place but no one wants to figure out how to FIGHT THE POWER and shit up threads when it's not only possible but also quite obvious.
>Give everyone a fucking gun.
That solves nothing as a single asshurt nigger can delete the board completely if he wants to. Now jannies don't even have to weasel their way into power to delete things they don't like. Sasuga ancap-senpai.
>Whata fuck do we do bros?
RULEZ FOR TEENS
rule wan: every board is our board, no exception and postings shall be done as the teen pleases. all gets are property of the teen unless the teen wishes to relinquish said get.
rule two(hoo): jannies can boil their heads in a stew, and are fifth-class citizens. there is no exception to this rule.
rule threeway: no gurls allowed
<crusading to shit up every board under the artificial banner that jannies bad GOOD
this is what /japan/ actually believes
can never disrupt a board worse than jannies already do :DDDD
Could you please explain why jannies being bad is "artificial"? You say something like this as though it were common knowledge yet you do not provide any feasible argument to back it up.
We have here some explanation for our cause (i.e. power over others leading to corruption, coalitions of jannies vying for power forming in secrecy, devolution of the community due to inability to express critical ideas) yet you have brought nothing for us to consider.
>everyone in a position of power is inherently bad because I say so
your argument isn't any better chump
any argument is better than zero argument, which is what you currently possess.
Have you been so abused that you cannot even express your own argument in words? Are your feelings towards jannies so fearful and deeply rooted that you do not dare touch them lest you be made into an example?
I understand. I pity you, truly. Life has not allowed you to express critical thought for so long that you've become inept and unable to do so.
Shared public mod account? Or perhaps a bot (email/IRC) that sends a email or /msg that contains your personal janny account? (this way the mod access could be revoked) Also, you could use https://git.sr.ht/~sircmpwn/mkproof and/or https://git.sr.ht/~tomleb/mkproof-proxy as anti-bot/anti-abuse system.
>Self moderation or just ignoring posts you don't like is probably the best solution. It was brought up a couple times for a pipe dream imageboard concept where the poster can either filter everyone they don't like or subscribe to community created janny lists. No longer would they have to rely on some arbiter of content. That'll never happen without someone willing to code it unfortunately.
> subscribe to community created janny lists.
Could this be also implemented as a browser extension or ublock origin block list?
>ublock origin block list
This would be alright, but there are some issues. You wouldn't be able to ban by IP without it being publicly exposed. You could use a hash of the IP, but you would force boards to have public IDs in that case. Of course, this only means more work, so it's not impossible, just inconvenient. The other thing is illegal content. Having anyone able to delete anything pretty much covers that, but if it's only done with ublock, you're still technically hosting illegal content, and you'd need the server admin to take care of that. At that point, between the nuisance of cleaning up spam, and the need for jannies anyway, I don't see a way to do it that would actually be convenient ie, for a lazy fuck
honestly speaking, I would say jannies should be curtailed in every aspect except they'll have one power; turning on the captcha, and turning off the captcha should spam wave occur. I would also rather globals didn't exist, but gay laws on illegal pixels exist so what can you do about those and why feds are fine with them getting an eyeful of illegal pixels but nod you is its own barrel of monkies, but it does show the judicial system is breddy bad in this country either way.
The """"BO""" of a board should not exist in the case of imageboards wherein the admin retains sole power of board creation, but on imageboards wherein users are allowed to create their own boards, then I suppose it's inevitable that said board will be run based on BO's whims, unless a cuhrayzee system is developed wherein a user is allowed to make a board but then is only allowed to do things with it like modify CSS, control captcha powers, etc. etc. everything EXCEPT being allowed to delete anything at all. Users must be allowed to decide that on their own via the "hide" button.
The downside is that users will be afflicted by nasty things like monkey genitals from mentally ill individuals prior to hitting that hide button, but what can you do, something has to give for janny faggotry to be killed forever.
microblogging will destroy the earth