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National Socialist and Third Position Discussion

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Sieg Heil!

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[Reposting from frenspol.]

Hello fellow frens,

Recently in another thread many frens myself included had expressed interest in forming a White advocacy and support network encompassing multiple aspects of community support, outreach, legal assistance, workshops and meetups as well as general well-being improvement initiatives. The amount of advocacy for this idea right off the bat was encouraging and with Hizzy's support I have elected to start a thread to discuss specifically the aspects of what this proposed group or network would entail and encourage ideas from the broader Frenschan community.

This group would entail a range of support and advocacy initiatives all encompassing the idea of preserving White heritage and cultural and supporting the members of our race. The group would start here on Frenschan employing an organizational structure that was both secure and trustworthy. So many frens have echoed my sentiments that too many White support groups today are untrustworthy, full of red flags, or have become E-begging whores to fund the lifestyle's of the leadership that runs them while doing little for the community that they claim to represent. This group would be founded by us in the FC community and integrity would be one of the strongest cornerstones in which its foundation would be built. Many Whites today are lost, alone, and adrift on a dark ocean with societal propaganda and feelings of hopelessness beaten down upon them daily. We need to change that and reverse course and one way we accomplish this is creating lasting hope that those lost people can both reach out for like a piece of floating driftwood and come ultimately to believe in.

The first aspect of creating this organization or network is getting a broad range of ideas from the community on what its mission will entail and what operation parameters it will govern itself under. Feel free to give whatever ideas you think will have a positive aspect to its formation as well as ideas on what to watch out for and avoid. Everyone here has something to contribute and I'm not just talking about pol. Anyone on any of the other boards should be encouraged to come here and contribute to what will hopefully turn into a significant development for White's moving forward.

Also something that should be discussed by the community is how communications should be handled in the formation of the group. Should we continue on a newly created private board or should the discussion head to a private Matrix channel? Again integrity and security will be top priorities for this group and keeping things decentralized and identities secret will be key.

Please share your thoughts frens, your opinions are much appreciated.

[Original thread: https://frenschan.org/pol/res/62572.html]
Replies: >>1129 >>1134 >>1135
>>1128 (OP) 
>The first aspect of creating this organization or network is getting a broad range of ideas from the community on what its mission will entail and what operation parameters it will govern itself under.
Okay, great. I guess let us know when they come up with something because the rest of the idea is entirely too broad.

Maybe focus on:
>legal assistance, workshops
Because "community support" is found on almost any IB with a /pol/, "outreach" is crowded with dozens of WN orgs stickering and flyering all over Europe and the US, and "meetups" don't really accomplish much except having a fun day out with the boys.

Also be prepared for thousands of posts everywhere calling you glowniggers because of paranoiacs and shills.
Replies: >>1130 >>1134
>I guess let us know when they come up with something because the rest of the idea is entirely too broad.
There's an exclusive board where we're working out the details, in addition to the original thread, which is where people are being invited from. It's all moving kind of slow, though, which is why I wanted to reach out to more people.

>Also be prepared for thousands of posts everywhere calling you glowniggers because of paranoiacs and shills.
It's a perfectly understandable response. I'm doing my best to assuage any potential hangups.
Replies: >>1132 >>1133
>It's all moving kind of slow, though, which is why I wanted to reach out to more people.
Generally, the more numerous the group, the longer it will take to reach a consensus unless there is already a leader or hierarchy present to enforce the purpose of the group. I myself don't have any special insight, so I will leave it to others to debate the best course. I wish you the best of luck with your project, however, and may join once the purpose is set. Hail Victory.
Do you support Frenschans stance against advocacy of violence?
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>>1128 (OP) 
It's pretty easy to look at past political advocacy & mutual aid societies and adapt them to present day conditions, and the goals are quite simple as well. The important part is figuring out the very low-level technical steps to accomplishing any of those goals. Think lines of credit, communications technology, the chain of command (or intentional lack thereof), scalability, how to spread your influence in a viral way, how it will be directly transferred into political change, etc. 

Be careful not to fall into the trap of speculating what a perfect organization would look like and designing names and logos without creating those intermediate steps. You might realize American White Nationalist organizations are often guilty of this. Once you have a plan and focused goals (as >>1129 puts well) I'm sure you guys will get all the help you need. As an aside, this topic reminded me of a cripplechan thread from 4 years ago, maybe it will be useful:
>>1128 (OP) 
When it comes to goals, I think it would be much better to aim for an ethnostate based on principles of sovereignty and self-determination (basically, a large group of like-minded people choosing to settle at some place and govern themselves according to their own principles and laws) rather than trying to cause a fascist takeover of a current country.

Something like the American settlers did when they founded USA.

This approach would have several advantages. Instead of being portrayed as oppressors who are trying to change the current way of life by force, this group would represent the oppressed because there is no sensible argument why should anyone prevent them from doing so, further revealing the actual oppressive, hypocritical and tyrannical nature of ZOG. Secondly, it would be harder for the kikes to rile up their golems because they would not feel as threatened, nor would they be endangered by it themselves. It would also allow for a better selection of individuals and a blank state, rather than inheriting all the Weimar conditions and the bulk of the masses that could easily flip and be subverted against this order.

The main issue would be the lack of terra incognita to claim and the talmudic UN system (that's a whole redpill into itself), but with the right pressure and changing political climate it may become possible. Then, measures could be taken to help other whites "go their own way" and the population numbers could be gradually restored based on the refined stock.

This is one of rare scenarios that are actually viable, even if unlikely to succeed.
Replies: >>1137
Some folks could attempt a claim on Bir Tawil, the main problem being that it is barely hospitable desert. Such conditions haven't stopped people from building cities before though. I firmly believe that the world needs a new state to provide an alternative to zog, humans as a species need a frontier to expand into. Like a pressure relief valve for societies.

The only other option for land I can think of right now is North Sentinel island. Currently inhabited by literal stone age savages but there for the taking. If nothing else, it'd be a fun colonial adventure. Why not both? Make one the fascist state and run the other as an experiment in some other doctrine, a test bed of sorts to see if a risky move is worth doing. Just spitballing ideas here.
Replies: >>1139
There are several possibilities, such as going underwater or underground, building artificial islands etc. but I think most of those got excluded by various UN treaties, because they were specifically trying to prevent breakaway NS groups of doing that after WW2. Third Reich has never officially capitulated.

One of the options would be settling some sparsely populated third world country and displacing the local population by targeted migration and massive birthrates, which they wouldn't mind because it would bring them the benefits of civilization, but they could also be incited to violence against whites so it would end up like another Rhodesia or South Africa. However, with whites becoming minorities in their own countries and life becoming too uncomfortable to ignore, inverse migration to places like Africa would become possible.
Replies: >>1140
The other chunk of land between Egypt and Sudan that is disputed has a sparse population, as well as a coastline. If Bir Tawil were settled first, expansion to link up with the larger piece that has more potential could be justified since not much is being done there by either current claimant. A major industry would be needed to build upon. Perhaps some sort of tourism that cannot be done elsewhere is workable. Also with the area being so remote, space agencies may be interested in a spaceport. Though we may prefer to keep out of the global order as it stands, isolation is a death sentence should anyone choose to attack us. Something like a major stake in space launches gives a bit of leverage. After all, Taiwan continues to exist mainly because of their chip manufacturing capacity. Making ourselves integral to the world ought to give a measure of security.
Replies: >>1141
Bir Tawil is actually a pretty good spot, it's relatively isolated but logistics would be manageable due to relatively even terrain, proximity of sea and relative proximity of global distribution hubs. Which makes me wonder how come no country tried to take control over it since placing missiles with sufficient range over there would allow them to keep the Suez trade routes through the Red Sea on sights.

On the downside, the region is somewhat dangerous and mostly barren, making habitat and safety expenditures quite high. Not much potential for tourism, but building a spaceport would be a pretty good idea. Any project of this type would require wealthy sponsors, and in this case they may even get a decent return on investment. Not to mention the huge water reserves under Sahara that could potentially be tapped by expansion or expropriation. But the region is somewhat volatile (and that's an understatement kek). It would be surrounded by Mecca, Israel, Somalia and African warlords. A kind of a high-risk, highly strategic location that may be interesting to global powers (competing branches of ZWG) but questionable for a band of racially conscious adventurers and daredevil entrepreneurs.

However, it seems that you can actually build artificial islands if you do it as an internationally recognized government, so even a temporary establishment could serve its purpose.
Replies: >>1142
You need to look at unconventional aspects for tourism in a place like that. Something that won't be done anywhere else. There are festivals based on the concepts of post-apocalyptic fiction, such as Mad Max and Fallout. They have strict rules however, which goes against the theme somewhat. Provide a few square miles of desert to these enthusiasts for a week every year, allowing freedom for dune buggy races and shooting competitions etc. They'll pay a decent amount for unrestricted access and it would require practically no effort on the part of the landowner beyond basic amenities.

Regarding investment for something like a spaceport, there are several private space agencies. Elon Musk isn't the only man with skin in the game. At least one of these endeavors ought to be interested in a purpose built facility with significantly less red tape to deal with on a daily basis. Having a launch site would be a good excuse for strict defensive measures too.

The danger from volatility in the region is concerning of course. Whatever solutions were to be implemented, they'd need to be incredibly robust. From the threats mentioned, Israel's proximity is alarming. I can't help but wonder if drawing a comparison may work. For example, since Israel is explicitly a jewish state, could this hypothetical newcomer to the world stage be exclusively a non-jewish state? Since the land is uninhabited, the argument of displacing an indigenous population is untenable. Initial population being entirely immigrant might be hard for opponents to vilify in this case too. It'd probably require a toning down of the overt anti-jew rhetoric for a while though, sadly.

As for North Sentinel island, a few years ago a Christian missionary made a trip there to spread the gospel. He was immediately killed. If all the larping deus vult types could be riled up into starting an actual crusade on the island, there would be an adequate diversion from the peaceful acquisition of Bir Tawil. Who knows, they could even make a success of it. Their enemy would have no counter to medieval weapons technology so they could really live out their fantasy in templar outfits.
Replies: >>1143 >>1145
> If all the larping deus vult types could be riled up into starting an actual crusade on the island
You mean for Bir Tawil or the North Sentinel islands? I mean I wouldn't go far as to disturb tree-niggers living out their lives in their own island. Nonetheless, it can be argued that those Sentinelese niggers are on White man's clay, as are the other races on Earth.
Replies: >>1144
I would suggest the crusade be for North Sentinel, since they have literally rejected Christ's messenger with lethal force it seems justified. I'd like to see if the self-proclaimed crusaders of the modern West will actually defend their faith from the Sentinelese. So far, they've been getting away with murder.
Replies: >>1147
This kind of tourism would bring too much negative attention, and any recognized state would still be bound by international conventions. Alternatively, a part of it could remain unclaimed and the claimed part would just provide the housing, food and supplies without any involvement with what happens on the unclaimed part, but it would draw too much unwanted attention anyway. The income from that may cover the settlement expenses, but not developing a proper society and expanding it. And you'd get all sorts of unwanted types wanting to settle there.

A much better approach would be to develop research facilities or even turn the volatility of the region into an advantage by trading weapons, although that would increase the chances of getting attacked by one of the parties and require a pretty big defense budget.

> If all the larping deus vult types could be riled up
Christcucks would only be a liability
Replies: >>1149
>the crusade be for North Sentinel, since they have literally rejected Christ's messenger with lethal force it seems justified
>if you reject christ, you must die
Replies: >>1153
I agree that tourism would likely be out of the question; the industry is too fickle and prone to destruction via economic downturn or even propaganda. Imagine getting tourists when every kike news outlet in the world is saying the settlement is being run by Nazi terrorists who are probably cannibals as well.

>research facilities
Doable as long as you could recruit enough intelligent people
>turn the volatility of the region into an advantage by trading weapons
As you said you'll need some serious hardware to dissuade an angry group losing whatever conflict created your business opportunity.

I wonder if participating in the energy industries would benefit a settlement or make it a bigger target. Obviously oil and gas have wars started over them routinely. Renewables? I am only spitballing.
Replies: >>1150
Solar panels would be quite viable in that area, but you need the infrastructure to export that energy. Overall, settlement seems plausible.

Marie Byrd land is another candidate, but it would cost an exorbitant amount of money and be quite difficult to get there. It should get gradually warmer and expose abundant resources over time however.
Replies: >>1179
That is from the perspective of a Christian, not my belief personally. For all their talk of defending Christendom from muslims or whatever else, they have yet to bring the work of god to North Sentinel by the sword. If they really mean it, they'll back up their faith with action. It would be fun to see and serve as a distraction from other minor geopolitical shifts.
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I don't really see how you could make any sort of self sufficient settlement on Marie Byrd land
Replies: >>1186 >>1230
It would be like a moonbase, impossible to be fully self-sufficient but at least dependent only on high-tech imports that can't be fabricated domestically. It's the sort of thing that would require raising tens of millions of dollars which might be difficult when the selling point is living in an area with a 5 degree (F) average temperature.
Replies: >>1189 >>1230
The problem is that unlike a moon base a settlement there doesn't serve any purpose. At least not that I can think of. I don't see how we could just keep importing stuff if we don't actually create anything of value.
Replies: >>1200
If anyone was going to Antarctica you'd be better off finding the polar entrance to the hollow earth.
Replies: >>1200 >>1230
All true, which is why the best place for sekrit White enclaves would just be politically stable countries where people would be able to live under the radar. The question of the land being unclaimed or disputed is a bit of a red herring, since a country being recognized ultimately just comes down to whether a large power decides it's advantageous. Taiwan is a US ally that the US doesn't even recognize as a sovereign country, that should give people an idea how subjective independence is. 

>doesn't know about the ice caves
Replies: >>1230
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some interesting ideas ITT. However, at the risk of being a wet blanket, I don't think it's feasible to subsist on leftover crumbs of land. Hitler was right about many things, and that includes lebensraum. I don't think deserts or tiny islands count as living space -- it's supposed to be fertile, hospitable land with resources, trade routes, and ports. Obviously, all this is long since claimed and occupied, by either ZOG or other state entities who are not White Nationalist, which leads to the speculation here. But even if you could get these wild schemes to work, there's still the risk of annihiliation by the rotting but still mighty GAE. There are a number of countries that serve as a warning, such as Libya, Apartheid South Africa, and Rhodesia. In the case of Libya, Qaddafi was planning to form an African Union with a gold-backed currency in opposition to ZOG, which is the real reason he was taken out. The other examples I listed were pro-White, so their fate is self-explanatory.

So what can we do? I think the best we can do under the circumstance of a rotting ZOG empire is to prepare and bide our time -- build up networks, survivalist compounds, and so forth. When GAEmerica finally collapses, that's the time to establish the Northwest Territorial Imperative, which is the best idea I've seen thus far. Cascadia/Pacific Northwest is a fine region, plenty of land and resources with a temperate climate. While GAE is standing, I'd suggest concentrating preparatory work in that region.

Pics related, I also altered the hues of the flag to match the Doug Flag (seen in one of the maps); I think the darker, bolder colors are better, vexillologically speaking.
Replies: >>1234 >>1324
It's supposed to become much more hospitable in the future when the temperatures drop further. You could run indoor agriculture (like they do at some research bases) or even raise small animals like chickens, for a small enough population. Many explorers have subsisted on seal hunting as well.

There are many potential sources of income, otherwise major powers wouldn't race over establishing a foothold there. Conventionally speaking, it would be restricted to research and maybe tourism, although a somewhat self-sufficient community could eventually be established.

[spoiler]That's the plan[/spoiler]

Governments would be much less likely to ignore such enclaves on their territories. I am not against such initiatives, I am suggesting something that can be done in addition to that.
>that the US doesn't even recognize as a sovereign country
That's because they want to eventually 'unite' China as a republic. If they recognize Taiwan they would cede its claim as a legitimate government of the mainland. 
>how subjective independence is
There is no such thing in reality (the entire UN system was set to prevent that), but it can be established temporarily under the right circumstances. Any settlement of Antarctica would require not only financial support, but military and diplomatic one as well, especially for accessing more ... restricted regions. Now, we all know that all major powers are controlled by the tribe, however, their golems always end up turning against them (or they end up devouring themselves, for such is their nature), so if we exert enough pressure they may be willing to make some small concessions. Besides, some of them may appreciate the idea of being an actual nation (as questionable as it may be) over completely executing their programming that would eventually terminate their nationhood in any meaningful sense.
Replies: >>1245
> Qaddafi was planning to form an African Union with a gold-backed currency in opposition to ZOG, which is the real reason he was taken out
Wasn't it true that he wanted to establish a Muslim takeover of certain White nations? He was fond of Nation of Islam, I think. I'd recommend to not look up to non-whites, really.
Replies: >>1245
I'll admit, a warmer Marie Byrd Land has alot of potential. There's also Greenland, where our Viking ancestors lived when it was warmer, although there's already a ZOG puppet state there. Argentina is still mostly White, but has its own issues.
So, I'm not saying it's PNW or bust, but I'd favor that destination for many reasons. And of course we're not limited to a single place.

I'm not saying Qaddafi should be glorified. I'm not sure about the Muslim takeover, but he was loyal to his non-white Volk and worked against ZOG. I brought him up as a warning for what can happen when you refuse your shackles.
I never  understood the PNW as a potential ethnostate. Its like one of the most liberal parts of the us. Also it being part of the us is its own problem. Just seems like there's better areas.
Replies: >>1353
There are various possibilities. However, I'm drawn to the PNW because of its prime lebensraum, mild climate, natural resources, redwood forests, coastline, and it has lots of whites already. Of course, an ethnostate could not be established there before the fall of the US, and a large-scale purge would likely be necessary.
Replies: >>1360
>after the fall of the us
When? How?
Replies: >>1371
To summarize: the US economy is jew'd, running on a giant debt bubble and endless inflation, backed by a military and empire which are obviously weakening. This is an unsustainable model, and it's only getting worse, with the middle class & small businesses getting squeezed out of existence, people reduced to debt servitude, and younger generations unable to build a stable life & career. There's deep racial divisions and tensions, as there have always been, which are only getting worse with the ongoing mudslide of illegal immigration and declining White birthrates. On top of that, you've got cultural malaise, with alot of unsolved problems, such as drug addiction/overdoses, homelessness, mass shootings, and ideological fanaticism. On the political end, we live under a thoroughly corrupt oligarchy who have openly subverted elections and utilize other totalitarian tactics (lockdowns, censorship, etc), and are currently fighting a far-flung proxy war with Russia like a typical Late Empire.

This should give you a sense of the situation faced by the US. That's not to say the Fall is imminent, I can't say how many years or decades it will be, but we'll probably live to see it. There is too much ongoing rot & decay, and no one's doing much about it; Trump made a valiant attempt to fix it, but it wasn't nearly enough. I think the rotting structure will survive Russian victory in Ukraine, but it'll be a major blow and hasten the eventual end somewhat. Long-term decay and fault-lines will eventually lead to collapse, and there's no foreseeable way to avoid this.
Replies: >>1373
>Trump made a valiant attempt to fix it
Can you elaborate on this? Trump just seems like another ZOG puppet to me.
Replies: >>1377
>Trump just seems like another ZOG puppet to me.
In fact, that's the consensus around here, so this is just my personal view. I see his actions as at least slowing the decline, if not a brief reversal. Enforcing borders, scaling back imperialism, negotiating the withdrawal from Afghanistan (Biden admin fucked it up later), bringing back domestic industry, pulling out of trans-pacific partnership, paris climate accords, iran nuclear deal, the World Health Organization, and ((( international power structures ))) in general, along with banning trannies from the military, pushing back against ((( critical race theory ))) poison, and more. All these were moves in the right direction, if modest.
Really, from the way NPCs absolutely seethed over Trump, you would hardly know that he was a downright moderate politician with sane policies. He worked against the corrupt oligarchy to some extent instead of being completely beholden to it, which was enough to cause all that cacophony.
As I said, most /fascists/ see Trump as kayfabe controlled opposition, meant to provide an outlet for boomers and non-pozzed Whites while still being safe for ZOG. It's likely that Trump did strike a deal with Jews, and they allowed him to operate, although I don't think he was their puppet; I think Trump led a genuine revolt which was contained by the kikes. But again, my view on this is in the minority.
Replies: >>1380
Anon, even before the presidency, they (that is to say, KIKES) would send him into any pro-American boomer movement as a wrecking ball that sucked all the air out of the room while exposing dangerous dissident elements to them, multiple times.  The 9/11 Truther stuff and the Reform party, to name a couple.  His entire presidency was just this shtick all over again.  Seeing anyone with pattern recognition IQ so low on this board is going to snap my back like a twig from cringe, please fix yourself.
Replies: >>1382
I'm normally quite good at picking up patterns, maybe I haven't made a proper analysis of Trump. Based on the hysterical response from most of our institutions and power-brokers, it seemed that Trump's revolt was genuine, and not planned by Jews; however, Jews realized they could keep this within bounds and prevent MAGA from being a threat to the real power structure, which is still intact. This is my current perception.
Replies: >>1405
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>it seemed that Trump's revolt was genuine, and not planned by Jews
Here's some evidence he's been their shabbos goy for decades.
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