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John 3:16 KJV: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
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e3fbce No.26701
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What are y'alls thoughts on Universalism?

Please keep this as civil as possible!!!

For Context: Universalism is the idea that all people are reconciled back to God in heaven, and that all is made perfect again, usually via Hell as a purgatorial fire than an eternal one. It was espoused by some of the Church fathers, most famously Origen, Clement, and Gregory of Nyssa. There is an incredibly small group of "Primitive Baptist Universalists" that uphold that the punishment for sins takes place here on Earth. They're belief isn't the main focus here, but it is here for completeness.

Universalism has caught on with theologians over the years (such as David Bentley Hart and Robin Parry), due to it's logical solutions to things such as the problem of evil and it's historical basis.

To Clarify:
 - Universalism is NOT the religion known as "Unitarian Universalists"
 - Universalism is NOT considered a *damnable* heresy (although whether or not it should be a heresy is debated)
 - Universalism does NOT argue that all religions or lifestyles are right, or that sinning is ok. Christians are expected to strive to be as righteous as possible.
 - Universalism is NOT usually anti-missions
 - Universalists hold to trinitarian beliefs and conservative beliefs on other non-hell issues
 - Universalists uphold that the purgatorial hell is not pleasant and of unknown (albeit limited) length, and still argue for the repentance of sins
41dbe1 No.26704
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While it is an appealing position, or should be at any rate since we shouldn't be willing that any man perish, I think there are many verses they would need to reconcile this position with such as Matthew 7:13.

I believe the Catholic position is to hold the hope that people can be saved after death, but do not definitively state that it can happen since the Scriptures do not appear to either. Universalism is going a step beyond even in stating that everyone will be saved. Beyond the seeming lack of a guarantee for this in the Bible, I am also hesitant on this position because there are many people who seem proud or spiteful enough that they would not even repent after death if they had the option.
Replies: >>26707
4ca7d2 No.26705 
the lack of univesalism is just turning christianism into judaism, another reason why the protestant movement is the biggest heresy ever made.
Replies: >>26708
73e281 No.26707 
>>26704
I would agree with his position, it makes the most sense to hope for universalism, but confident universalism seems like a step too far.

Matthew 7:13 usually isn't viewed as the number of people being saved, but a parable given by Jesus. It wouldn't make sense to think of it as a numerical calculation for who is saved (especially since other parables, such as the wheat and tares and 10 virgins would contradict the small number of saved.) Other verses, such as Rev 7:9, and Rom. 5:15-20 would contradict this.

Even if it was the number of people saved, universalists assert that people would be led to destruction, be purified, and then enter heaven.

Again, I'm not a universalist, I think that it is possible but not a given.
73e281 No.26708 
>>26705
No denomination (Western Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, Oriental Orthodoxy, Various sects of Protestantism) has universalism as an actual doctrine. To be fair, Eastern Orthodoxy comes a lot closer, since hell is considered a mystery and thus their are more Apokatastasis believers.

If Protestantism didn't exist, universalism still wouldn't be the prevailing doctrine.

Obviously, you can believe whatever you want and I'm not here to debate you on Protestantism (It's not the main point of this thread anyway), just thought this was an interesting comment, since Protestants did not invent the doctrine of hell by any means..
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