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Discussion of Christianity, the Church, and theology

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John 3:16 KJV: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

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There is no scriptural authority for true Christians to worship on Sunday. The Roman Catholic Church instituted Sunday worship to distance itself from biblical Christianity and gain pagan converts. So those who worship on Sunday are essentially saying the pope has the authority to change the Word of God.
I worship God every day of the week.
Replies: >>22829
Why does the New Testament associate Christian worship with sunday and not saturday (Saturn's day)?
Replies: >>22829
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>>22819 (OP) 
John 20:1
"Now on the first day of the week Mary Magdalene came to the tomb early, while it was still dark, and saw that the stone had been taken away from the tomb."

Acts 20:7
"On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul talked with them, intending to depart on the next day, and he prolonged his speech until midnight."

1 Corinthians 16:2
"On the first day of every week, each of you is to put something aside and store it up, as he may prosper, so that there will be no collecting when I come."

We all know that you just wanted to skip out on church today since it's New Year's, OP.
Replies: >>22827 >>22829
You got it. 
Jesus Christ, true man and true God, arose from the dead on the first day of the week. So, by tradition we worship on Sunday and not Saturday. 
New covenant. 

I have no idea about that and I leave the judgement to the Lord. 
But... The Lord did not pick a woman to be an apostle, and Saint Peter wrote that women should not be allowed to teach men or speak in Church. Thus scripture is against any woman being the founder of a new religion having anything to do with Christ.
Replies: >>22829
This is about the day which God blessed and sanctified, a day which we're not to work in honor and celebration of the Creator. You can worship God every day of the week, and you should, but if you rest every day of the week, you're not holy, you're just lazy and idle. 

Sunday keepers are pedophiles and homosexuals. Look at the Roman Catholic Boylover Cult. Don't throw rocks when you live in a glass house.

Not only that, I don't even read anything she's written nor do I care what she's written personally. You can't even defend your rituals and traditions so you lash out at your boogeyman.

It doesn't.

>saturday (Saturn's day)?
I call it sabbath, as does many languages in the world. But if we want to play that game, you celebrate the "venerable day of the sun" as it's called by Rome, the "sun's day". But it's not like you sun worshippers know of that edict from Rome. 

Where in a single one of any of those verses does God bless or sanctify the first day of the week? Something happening on the day doesn't change God's law nor does it move His holy day. It's obvious you've never studied this, because there's about a dozen verses to every one of yours in support of keeping God's laws and His holy sabbaths. 

By your tradition you violate and make no effect the law and word of God. 

James 2:10-12
Exodus 20:8-11
Matthew 5:17-19
Revelation 14:12
Revelation 22:14
Ecclesiastes 12:13

I could go on, but all any of you apostate frauds care about is your traditions. You don't care about God enough or even at all if you can so callously disregard His holy laws and commandments. Even taking a day to rest, you refuse to do that despite all the blessings and curses. 

You refuse to learn.
Replies: >>22836 >>22856
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>By your tradition you violate and make no effect the law and word of God.
Few of those have anything to do with Sunday worship. ( I suspect the infamous protestant "wall of scripture cites" to drive demons away)
 'James 2:10-12'
''10 And whosoever shall keep the whole law, but offend in one point, is become guilty of all.
11 For he that said, Thou shalt not commit adultery, said also, Thou shalt not kill. Now if thou do not commit adultery, but shalt kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak ye, and so do, as being to be judged by the law of liberty.''

Nothing there about Saturday vs Sunday. 

This one is better... 
'Exodus 20:8-11'
''8 Remember that thou keep holy the sabbath day.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and shalt do all thy works.
10 But on the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: thou shalt do no work on it, thou nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy beast, nor the stranger that is within thy gates.
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and the sea, and all things that are in them, and rested on the seventh day: therefore the Lord blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it.''

And on Sunday, we remember that Christ arose from the Dead an sits at the Right hand of the Father Almighty, having completed his labors in saving humanity on this earth. Compared to the creation, saving our wicked souls was a bigger miracle than creating the Universe. 

This one is tangential:
'Matthew 5:17-19'
''17 Do not think that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets. I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.
18 For amen I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot, or one tittle shall not pass of the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 He therefore that shall break one of these least commandments, and shall so teach men, shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven. But he that shall do and teach, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.''
The argument you can make here is the commandment to keep the Sabbath holy.  It's a fair argument, but Sunday worship is a Christian tradition, and church tradition is scripture 2 Thessalonians 13-14.

Revelation 14:12 <- Doesn't mention Sunday. 
Revelation 22:14 <- Another red herring, not relevant. 
Ecclesiastes 12:13 <- Says keep the commandments, like Matthew 5:17-19 but Church tradition is part of the Christian religion. 

Please try and keep the scripture relevant so that rebuttals can be kept short and on point.
But I say to you, whoever is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment,o and whoever says to his brother, ‘Raqa,’ will be answerable to the Sanhedrin, and whoever says, ‘You fool,’ will be liable to fiery Gehenna.
Irrational seething
>you celebrate the "venerable day of the sun"
No, I celebrate the Lord's day which is what scripture calls the first day of the week, which is the Christian sabbath
Replies: >>22859
And the scripture about Church traditions? Just going to ignore that? 
And what about this?
'Mark 2:27'
24 And the Pharisees said to him: Behold, why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful? 25 And he said to them: Have you never read what David did when he had need, and was hungry himself, and they that were with him? 26 How he went into the house of God, under Abiathar the high priest, and did eat the loaves of proposition, which was not lawful to eat but for the priests, and gave to them who were with him? 27 And he said to them: The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath. 28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord of the sabbath also.

If the sabbath is made for man's benefit, not man for the Sabbath. So says the Lord of the Sabbath. If the Lord didn't mean for us to worship on the day of his Resurrection, he should have come back from hell a day early.
Is telling people to kill themselves Christian?
Revelation 1:10
I'm missing something behind this. I see some posts have been deleted. 
Is that what started these angry posts? Were they your posts that were trimmed? 

It's not just Catholics who worship on Sunday, the Orthodox and most Protestants worship on Sunday as well. 
I've read different reason for this, like after the third Jewish revolt the Romans had enough of jewish war making and put an end to them. Christians didn't want to be seen going to Church on Saturday least the Romans mistake them for Jews. 
Father told me it had to do with the Resurrection on Sunday, and the new covenant and that the day of rest and worship was for us and not tied to a particular day. 
I wasn't around 2000 years ago.
During the covid shut down, we had to sign up for Mass. There were families that would sign up for 'Sunday'. Catholic families tend to be large, so if there were 5+ to a family, one old man signing up could bump a whole family. My family wasn't Catholic and had no interest in going. 

So I went on 'Tuesday.' We didn't have to sign up on Tuesday.  Tuesday became my "Holy day" out of necessity. 

Since we had to sign up and be checked off on Sunday, the Priests (we had two) knew who wasn't going to mass. They also knew that the sign ups were filled within 5 minutes, and that a third of the Parish couldn't be accommodated. 

It kinda stung when the priest who taught catechism said I sinned by not attending on Sunday. I bit my tounge and didn't point out that he and the other priests could and eventually did, still could say two more masses and accommodate everyone. 

If the day or rest and worship is for our benefit, then how does it matter what day we rest and worship, as long as we do? Am I really going to hell because there was no room in the pews for me on Sunday? Well, I confessed that "sin" anyway, but what worried me more was that I wasn't sure if my repenting was valid since I didn't understand how what I did was a sin and not a mercy for accommodating better Catholics than me.
>From the latin: díes Domínĭcus, which means "day of the Lord Jesus"
Jesus isn't in that
Replies: >>22928 >>22951
Who do you think "LORD" may refer to, in a christian nation?
You have to be a special kind of dense to miss that.
The idea of the preeminence of Domínĭcus was established by the tradition of the Catholic Church since the first century, confirmed through various councils and the writings of the Fathers of the Church.

    This is the day which the Lord has made; let us exult and rejoice in it.
    Psalm 118:24

    On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together for the breaking of bread, Paul, who was to depart on the morrow, conversed with them, and continued his conversation until midnight.
    Acts 20:7-12

    On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with your income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made.
    1 Corinthians 16:2

In fact, Paul of Tarsus says:

    Let no one come to criticize you for what you eat or drink or for not observing feasts or the Sabbath day, for these are but shadows of the reality which is Christ Jesus
    Colossians 2:16-17
Replies: >>23024
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>>22819 (OP) 
This kind of thread is the result of "American Education"

Catholic majority nations don't call the day of the Lord Jesus Christ, "Sun-day", that's a thing only in protestant majority nations, who were apparently not fully christianized the first time they came into contact with christianity, or maybe it was the protestant reformation to make them move backwards back into paganism.
Catholic majority nations have since centuries changed the name of their feast day to reflect their christian faith.

The real question is, 
why are protestant nations still using the old pagan name for the feast day dedicated to the LORD ???
who is really worshipping the sun here? Not those nations where no day of the week is named after the sun.

(also thanks mods for deleting the previous post explaining the same, apparently truth is not important in protestantism or for whoever pushes this hateful attacks fueled by jealousy, only blind ignorance is important for such persons)
Replies: >>23451
Domine: 'Lord'.* 
I believe in God the Father Almighty, Creator of Heaven and Earth. And in Jesus Christ, Our 'Lord'...

*"Dictionary of Ecclesiastical Latin", Stelten, 1995 ISBN 978-1-56563-131-1
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>based bishop, crosses are pagan cath*kike idolatry

Technically, we cath*kikes don't use crosses. We use Crucifixes. The cross + body of Christ = Crucifix. Because we are not to forget that it is the sacrifice of Christ, his scourged and bloody body, that offers us a path to salvation. 

I'm not sure why protestants removed it. Guess they don't want to think about the sacrifice. Best answer I've ever heard for why no corpus of Christ was "Christ risen". Okay, but that's not the law of Moses. Nothing says to sacrifice the unblemished lamb and if the lamb comes back to life you're petition to God is forgiven.
>>22819 (OP) 
Do you have a scripture that says we're supposed to worship (and not just rest) on Saturday?

"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ." Colossians 2:16-17 KJV

This can't be said enough. I'm quoting another translation just to emphasize it. I've seen a lot of Seventh Day Adventism pushing lately, claiming that Sunday worship is the mark of the beast, and you're hellbound for not keeping the Sabbath. Read Galatians. It's short, and is addressed to a congregation falling into the lies of judaizers who claimed that you can't be a Christian if you're not physically circumcised. Seventh Day Adventists make the same error with the Sabbath.
Replies: >>23027
not OP and this isnt Scripture but the Romans called the seventh day "Saturday" which was named after their god saturn who was basically equivalent to the king of the gods. The reason they chose this name is because they viewed Yahweh as a equivalent to saturn and thus marked His Holy day as saturday.
Acts 5:29 !
I like this scripture. 
It debunks all Protestantism. the Talmud as well as the Summa of Aquinas and all personal revelations.
Replies: >>23554
Austria is a Catholic-majority nation and call it Sunday. Your argument falls through. Same with Poland, Crotia and Orthodox countries besides Russia who call Sunday "no work [day]", which is likely derived from Communism.
>>22819 (OP) 
Keeping the Sunday as the holy day is part of the reason why persecutions are much rarer and you're no longer a pacifist cult. There are esoteric reasons for it that I won't get into, but for once the "pagans" saved your ass.
Saturday is the 6th day of the week and 6 is the number of the devil! It's trying to trick you into worshiping satan!!
Replies: >>23521 >>23554
according to the Romans who named the Jewish holiday Saturday (Saturns days) after their god saturn who they associated with Yahweh and according to the Jews who kept the laws of the old testament for millenia, saturday is not the 6th day.
It doesn't mater if you choose Sunday or Saturday because modern human use of the 7 day calendar is such a (relatively) recent thing there's no way to know to it actually aligns. Any day has a 1 in 7 chance of being the right one.
The apostles celebrated the Lord's Super on Sunday
So Sunday we do as Christ told us to and eat the body and blood during communion
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the weekly cycle has never been interrupted

all the losers ITT just want to preserve their traditions rather than learning the laws of God and following them

your cult is not God. God said keep the seventh day HIS HOLY DAY, THE DAY OF THE LORD, He said to keep THAT day holy. Not any day you want or one the catholic cult promoted.
sunday is the seventh day of the week
your cult is not God. 
you worship Saturn like the apostate fraud that you are

God said keep the seventh day HIS HOLY DAY, THE DAY OF THE LORD, He said to keep THAT day holy. Not any day you want. And SUNDAY is the seventh day of the week you lying viper.
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I'm exposing these sick saturn worshiping cultists.
"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ." Colossians 2:16-17 KJV

"Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace." Galatians 5:1-4 KJV 

The same reasoning that Paul applied to circumcision could be applied to the weekly sabbath. God's Word urges you to stop seeking to be justified by law-keeping; rather, trust in Jesus Christ. He is our sabbath, not observed by a carnal day, but is observed by having faith in him:

"There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief." Hebrews 4:9-11 KJV
>>22819 (OP) 
Hes not wtrong. Most men are duplicitous faggots.
>Thread >>25418 on this subject is gone.
I should have guessed so, it was full of insults and overly-emotional statements. No archive either. I'll have to find my previous genuine responses in my offline-notes. Will post momentarily, if I can find them!
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I don't 'want' Sunday to not be the sabbath as I don't want to believe so many people could be wrong. And I would 'like' to believe that maybe the "it's Saturday" people are just misinterpreting whatever callender says the day changed. I fear heaping 'difficulties' on my life, despite knowing it is most likely 'wrong' of me to feel this way. I'm also find myself (refrencing the patterns of my previous behavior and my current-emotions) too 'lazy, prone to procrastination,' & 'afraid' to verify for myself, the 'truth' of the 'Sunday is incorrect' idea. I suspect these are flaws within myself.
Replies: >>25457
'Found this, it might be helpful:'
I should next show you the modes, or manner, how we should keep the Sabbath day holy; but before I come to that, we have a great question to consider. 

'How comes it to pass that we do not keep the seventh-day Sabbath as it was in the primitive institution, but have changed it to another day?' 

The old seventh-day Sabbath, which was the Jewish Sabbath, is abrogated, and in the room of it the first day of the week, which is the Christian Sabbath, succeeds. The morality or substance of the fourth commandment does not lie in keeping the seventh day precisely, but keeping one day in seven is what God has appointed. 

But how comes the first day in the week to be substituted in the room of the seventh day? 

Not by ecclesiastic authority. The church,' says Mr Perkins, has no power to ordain a Sabbath.' 

(1) The change of the Sabbath from the last day of the week to the first was by Christ's own appointment. He is Lord of the Sabbath.' Mark 2: 28. And who shall appoint a day but he who is Lord of it? He made this day. This is the day which the Lord has made.' Psa 118: 24. Arnobius and most expositors understand it of the Christian Sabbath, which is called the Lord's-day.' Rev 1: 10. As it is called the Lord's Supper,' because of the Lord's instituting the bread and wine and setting it apart from a common to a special and sacred use; so it is called the Lord's-day, because of the Lord's instituting it, and setting it apart from common days, to his special worship and service. Christ rose on the first day of the week, out of the grave, and appeared twice on that day to his disciples, John 20: 19, 26, which was to intimate to them, as Augustine and Athanasius say, that he transferred the Jewish Sabbath to the Lord's day. 

(2) The keeping of the first day was the practice of the apostles. Upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them.' Acts 20: 7; 1 Cor 16: 2. Here was both preaching and breaking of bread on this day. Augustine and Innocentius, and Isidore, make the keeping of our gospel Sabbath to be of apostolic sanction, and affirm, that by virtue of the apostles' practice, this day is to be set apart for divine worship. What the apostles did, they did by divine authority; for they were inspired by the Holy Ghost. 

(3) The primitive church had the Lord's-day, which we now celebrate, in high estimation. It was a great badge of their religion to observe this day. Ignatius, the most ancient father, who lived in the time of John the apostle, has these words, Let every one that loveth Christ keep holy the first day of the week, the Lord's-day.' This day has been observed by the church of Christ above sixteen hundred years, as the learned Bucer notes. Thus you see how the seventh-day Sabbath came to be changed to the first-day Sabbath. 

The grand reason for changing the Jewish Sabbath to the Lord's-day is that it puts us in mind of the Mystery of our redemption by Christ.' The reason why God instituted the old Sabbath was to be a memorial of the creation; but he has now brought the first day of the week in its room in memory of a more glorious work than creation, which is redemption. Great was the work of creation, but greater was the work of redemption. As it was said, The glory of this latter house shall be greater than of the former.' Hag 2: 9. So the glory of the redemption was greater than the glory of the creation. Great wisdom was seen in making us, but more miraculous wisdom in saving us. Great power was seen in bringing us out of nothing, but greater power in helping us when we were worse than nothing. It cost more to redeem than to create us. In creation it was but speaking a word (Psa 148: 5); in redeeming there was shedding of blood.1 Pet 1: 19. Creation was the work of God's fingers, Psa 8: 3, redemption was the work of his arm. Luke 1: 51. In creation, God gave us ourselves; in the redemption, he gave us himself. By creation, we have life in Adam; by redemption, we have life in Christ. Col 3: 3. By creation, we had a right to an earthly paradise: by redemption, we have a title to a heavenly kingdom. Christ might well change the seventh day of the week into the first, as it puts us in mind of our redemption, which is a more glorious work than creation. 

Use one. The use I shall make of this is, that we should have the Christian Sabbath, we now celebrate, in high veneration. The Jews called the Sabbath, The desire of days, and the queen of days.' This day we must call a delight, the holy of the Lord, honourable.' Isa 58: 13. Metal that has the king's stamp upon it is honourable, and of great value. God has set his royal stamp upon the Sabbath; it is the Sabbath of the Lord, and this makes it honourable. We should look upon this day as the best day in the week. What the phoenix is among birds, what the sun is among planets the Lord's-day is among other days. This is the day which the Lord has made.' Psa 118: 24. God has made all the days, but he has blessed this. As Jacob got the blessing from his brother, so the Sabbath got the blessing from all other days in the week. It is a day in which we converse in a special manner with God. The Jews called the Sabbath a day of light;' so on this day the Sun of Righteousness shines upon the soul. The Sabbath is the market-day of the soul, the cream of time. It is the day of Christ's rising from the grave, and the Holy Ghost's descending upon the earth. It is perfumed with the sweet odour of prayer, which goes up to heaven as incense. On this day the manna falls, that is angels' food. This is the soul's festival-day, on which the graces act their part: the other days of the week are most employed about earth, this day about heaven; then you gather straw, now pearl. Now Christ takes the soul up into the mount, and gives it transfiguring sights of glory. Now he leads his spouse into the wine-cellar, and displays the banner of his love. Now he gives her his spiced wine, and the juice of the pomegranate. Cant 2: 4, 8: 2. The Lord usually reveals himself more to the soul on this day. The apostle John was in the Spirit on the Lord's-day. Rev 1: 10. He was carried up on this day in divine raptures towards heaven. This day a Christian is in the altitudes; he walks with God, and takes as it were a turn with him in heaven.1 John 1: 3. On this day holy affections are quickened; the stock of grace is improved; corruptions are weakened; and Satan falls like lightning before the majesty of the word. Christ wrought most of his miracles upon the Sabbath; so he does still: dead souls are raised and hearts of stone are made flesh. How highly should we esteem and reverence this day! It is more precious than rubies. God has anointed it with the oil of gladness above its fellows. On the Sabbath we are doing angels' work, our tongues are tuned to God's praises. The Sabbath on earth is a shadow and type of the glorious rest and eternal Sabbath we hope for in heaven, when God shall be the temple, and the Lamb shall be the light of it. Rev 21: 22, 23. 

Use two. SIX days shalt thou labour.' God would not have any live out of a calling: religion gives no warrant for idleness. It is a duty to labour six days, as well as keep holy rest on the seventh day. We hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all. Now, them that are such, we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus, that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread.' 2 Thess 3: 11. A Christian must not only mind heaven, but his calling. While the pilot has his eye to the star, he has his hand to the helm. Without labour the pillars of a commonwealth will dissolve, and the earth, like the sluggard's field, will be overrun with briers. Prov 24: 31. Adam in innocence, though monarch of the world, must not be idle, but must dress and till the ground. Gen 2: 15. Piety does not exclude industry. Standing water putrifies. Inanimate creatures are in motion. The sun goes its circuit, the fountain runs, and the fire sparkles. Animate creatures work. Solomon sends us to the ant and pismire to learn labour. Prov 6: 6; 30: 25. The bee is the emblem of industry; some of the bees trim the honey, others work the wax, others frame the comb, others lie sentinel at the door of the hive to keep out the drone. And shall not man much more innate himself to labour? That law in paradise was never repeated. In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread.' Gen 3: 19. Such professors are to be disliked who talk of living by faith, but live out of a calling; they are like the lilies which toil not, neither do they spin.' Matt 6: 28. It is a speech of holy and learned Mr Perkins, Let a man be endowed with excellent gifts, and hear the word with reverence, and receive the sacrament, yet if he practice not the duties of his calling, all is but hypocrisy.' What is an idle person good for? What benefit is a ship that lies always on the shore? or armour that hangs up and rusts? To live out of a calling exposes a person to temptation. Melanchthon calls idleness the Devil's bath, because he bathes himself with delight in an idle soul. We do not sow seed in ground when it lies fallow; but Satan sows most of his seed of temptation in such persons as lie fallow, and are out of a calling. Idleness is the nurse of vice. Seneca, an old heathen, could say, Nullus mihi per otium dies exit; No day passes me without some labour.' An idle person stands for a cipher in the world, and God writes down no ciphers in the book of life. We read in Scripture of eating the bread of idleness,' and drinking the wine of violence.' Prov 31: 27; 4: 17. It is as much a sin to eat the bread of idleness,' as to drink the wine of violence.' An idle person can give no account of his time. Time is a talent to trade with, both in our particular and general callings. The slothful person hides his talent in the earth;' he does no good; his time is not lived, but lost. An idle person lives unprofitably, he cumbers the ground. God calls the slothful servant wicked.' Thou wicked and slothful servant.' Matt 25: 26. Draco, whose laws were written in blood, deprived those of their life who would not work for their living. In Hetruria they caused such persons to be banished. Idle persons live in the breach of the commandment, Six days shalt thou labour.' Let them take heed they be not banished from heaven. A man may as well go to hell for not working in his calling, as for not believing. 

Having spoken of the reasons of sanctifying the Sabbath I come now to[next section]
The Gospel scriptures themselves specifically spell out the days involved. 'The first day of the week' is definitely Sunday. As Christians, we have adopted it as our holy day, in honor of the resurrection of Jesus Christ. We're not Jewish, we're Christian, Anon.
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