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What a nice board!

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I wrote this a couple months ago when I played the Back 4 Blood beta.  I had meant to clean it up and go into more detail, but I doubt the game will deserve the effort.  I’ll just post what I have now and people can ask me more about what I remember from the beta or share their own experiences.


I recently played the Back 4 Blood beta with some friends and it was one of the worst experiences I’ve ever had.  I wanted to rant about it and the topic came up in the QTDDTOTT so here we are.  The game will be releasing on October 12th, but I doubt the devs will be able to fix the underlying problems with it in time for release.  It might have an initial surge of popularity, but there’s no way the game will have a lasting player base.

Broadly speaking, B4B is a 4-player co-op horde shooter FPS that takes a lot of inspiration from Left 4 Dead.  B4B is developed by Turtle Rock Studios, whom you may remember as developing the 2015 opus Evolve, a game famous for misunderstanding the dynamic of the Tank fights in Left 4 Dead and its shill campaigns destroyed by monster porn.  B4B has been marketing as “from the makers of Left 4 Dead,” but that isn’t really true since L4D was made by a small team of Valve employees who later went on to form Turtle Rock, and Turtle Rock is now an independent mid-sized studio.  I also believe that none of the original L4D team works at Turtle Rock, but I haven’t confirmed that and I don’t care enough to go digging.

The game has invited comparisons to L4D(2), which was a mistake since those games are still better than this one despite being more than a decade old.  L4D and L4D2 are arcadey games where the main goal is to get to the end of the level with everyone alive.  Guns and items are simple, and a lot of the fun comes from killing hordes of zombies while dealing with powerful special infected.  There is a kind of purity to the games that you don’t get from many titles these days: the core gameplay loop and separate modes are basically the only things you have.  No progression system, no cosmetic unlocks, no season pass DLC, etc.  Each mechanic interacts with at least one or two other mechanics to make the entire experience compelling and satisfying.

B4B is about as far away from the L4D gameplay formulas as one can get.  B4B combines a lot of different gameplay systems, all of which are needlessly cluttered and unsatisfying, and it completely lacks the purity of L4D.  There is still the same broad focus on a group of four high-powered survivors against hordes of common and special infected, but almost everything else is different.  The guns are distributed like Borderlands, the characters look like they’re from Fortnite, and the zombies feel like they’re from a CoD game.

I’ll go into the specifics in more detail, but here are a few points.
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>>85812 (OP) 
- There are a handful of primary and secondary guns to choose from, which all have different behaviour like accuracy, rate of fire, reload speed, and damage per shot (even if it’s quite minor in some cases).  You start with weak guns and generally get stronger guns by the second or third chapter of a campaign.
- Melee weapons replace your secondary gun, but are very good at clearing out hordes of common infected because they kill everything in a single hit except for the two boss infected and the most durable special infected.
- - Melee weapons have different categories (wide vs narrow, blunt vs sharp) which change their properties and prevents them from feeling similar despite every melee hit doing the same damage.
- Healing items are simple: restore your permanent health, defibrillators let you revive dead survivors, pain pills give you a big chunk of temporary health, and adrenaline needles give you half as much temporary health but let you move and interact with things faster.
- - Health kits and defibrillators take 5 seconds each to use, whereas the pain pills and adrenaline needles are much faster (0.5-1.0 seconds, roughly)
- Thrown items are simple: pipe bombs attract commons, then explode.  Molotov cocktails cover an area in fire that kills commons instantly and lights specials/bosses on fire.  Boomer bile attracts commons to an area for longer than a pipe bomb, but summons a horde and doesn’t actually kill anything.  You can also use boomer bile to make zombies fight each other.

- There are upwards of 30 primary and secondary guns to choose from.  Many of them are the same kind of generic assault rifles and SMGs you would find in CoD or a similar modern FPS.
- - The guns are presented like Borderlands, in that you can find guns with a variety of attachments and rarity levels that make their stats better or worse.  A gun is not simply itself, but also a collection of numbers and modifiers attached to it, some of which actively make the gun worse (like a bent barrel that makes it less accurate).
- Melee weapons replace your secondary gun, but are generally less useful (for reasons I’ll explain later) because they deal a lot less damage.  There is a distinction between vertical and horizontal weapon swings, but that’s it: narrow weapons kill commons in one hit, wide weapons can hit multiple commons but don’t kill in one hit.  There were only three or four melee weapons that I remember.
- Survivors can carry three types of secondary items: healing, offensive, and “quick items.”  I still don’t know what makes an item count as one type instead of another.  Each item can have one of four rarity levels, same as the guns, which gives it better numbers.
- There are also more types of items for each slot.  Healing items include pills and health kits (which are similar to their L4D counterparts), bandages (restore little permanent health, but shorter to use than the health kits), and a defibrillator (revives dead teammate/picks up downed teammate instantly).
- The same clutter is also true of thrown weapons, which results in some baffling weapon decisions.  Why would I use firecrackers to attract zombies for 4 seconds when I can throw a pipe bomb that attracts them for 6 and then detonates?

That was a bit much, but I hope it provides a decent basis for comparison.  To reiterate, L4D is a very pure game that lets players experiment with things in order to figure out how to use them best and perform tricks.  Pretentious people call it “emergent gameplay,” but I’m going to call it “waterfall gameplay,” like steps in a waterfall where one thing flows logically to the next.  If you know how something works consistently, that affords you more creativity when applying it in different circumstances.

B4B has introduced a lot more clutter into the weapon and item systems, presumably to make decisions more interesting.  However, due to the overall structure of the game loop, these decisions actively fight against each other.
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1. Moving, Shooting, and Buying

Unlike L4D, you have a stamina bar that dictates how much you can sprint, melee attack, and shove.  The restriction on melee attacks/shoves means you likely cannot fend off a group of commons by yourself.  Yes, it is very annoying to play a game with both shove and ADS, because they are both actions that should be mapped to M2.

Most guns are horribly inaccurate without using ADS.  You will run out of ammo very quickly unless you make a specific effort to conserve it by using melee attacks, unless you have perks/cards that give you more ammo [more on that later].  There is money scattered around the level, and you can use it in a safe room to buy items, ammo, and weapon upgrades [more on that later].

Movement is generally too slow to outrun commons unless you’re sprinting, in which case you can outrun them decently until you have to turn around and shoot (can’t sprint backwards! that would be unrealistic!).  You also strafe slower than you walk forward, because fuck you.

You can jump and mantle, which was doubtless done to make things “smoother” but which actually just makes movement more annoying and less consistent: if you’re standing in front of a waist high wall and you press jump, you mantle.  If you’re standing in front of a knee high wall and you press jump, you jump.  Why am I not jumping over the higher thing?

If you try to jump over a gap and fall with your waist onto the other platform, you can mantle and climb up, but if you make that same jump and knock your boots on the platform, you can’t mantle (and you can’t grab at the height where your arms would be, either).  For the average consolenigger, it will probably be “easier” to move forward and mash the jump/mantle/whatever the game feels like doing button, but for anyone who actually cares about the mechanics, it sucks because you can never be totally sure if the game will behave the way you think it does.

This is similar to what a lot of AAA action games do, where both the player and enemies have “move assist” on them, which is to say that they slide forward if they’re anywhere near their targets.  You can never be sure of the range of an attack, because even attacks that should clearly miss will often connect due to the character sliding across the ground.  MatthewMatosis’s God of Soy analysis video mentions this in greater detail and explains why it’s so fucking annoying, especially for a game that tries to sell itself on having hardcore combat. – around 10:00
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A minor note about the health system: it’s too complicated in uninteresting ways.  The premise is “trauma” – take more damage and go down more, your max health decreases, which limits how much you can heal up.  The only way to refresh it is by using first aid cabinets (NOT health kits, NOT bandages).  This is an evolution of the health system in L4D, where survivors start with 100 health and can heal back up to 80+ with a health kit, but their health is overall slowly being chipped away at by zombies.

Overall, what purpose does trauma serve?  It punishes you for being bad, but surely being incapacitated and losing health was already punishment enough.  I think it’s the kind of thing that was added by a designer without any kind of testing or forethought.  The downed state itself is already a punishment for being bad, so there’s no need for an additional punishment on top of that.

Shooting is tolerable, but not really fun.  My personal preference is to use high-power, single shot weapons like rifles and shotguns, and these are decent but not very satisfying in B4B.  The extremely slow bolt action rifle would normally be satisfying to use, but what’s the point of doing five times the damage of a pistol shot to a zombie if it just dies in two pistol shots anyway?  You might think the rifle would be better suited for picking off special infected, and it’s certainly better than a pistol, but due to the bullet sponge enemy design it doesn’t really feel like it’s a huge increase.

Special zombies have weak spots on them which are surprisingly hard to hit (either the hurtbox is bad or the hit detection is shoddy), and without a hit marker you’d never know that the hit to the weak spot was actually doing more damage.  Commons and specials both have ludicrously large melee attack ranges: they’ll reach out and clearly miss you with their arms, but still deal damage.  This means a group of commons will surround you from what feels like arm’s reach and still hit you.  It’s very disorienting.

The same is at least true of your melee weapons, but I personally find the whole thing very jarring.  L4D commons will get very close to you before attacking, which both makes them feel more believable/consistent and makes more visual sense – if you’re looking at someone’s face and you can see his feet in your peripheral vision, he shouldn’t be able to punch or grab you.
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2. The Perk System

Survivors in L4D(2) are completely cosmetic: Zoey has the same movement options and speed as Francis, etc.  This was an intentional decision because it’s about the gameplay, not menu navigation/progression.  This also prevented people from prioritizing based on special abilities or numbers, since each one of your teammates is just as valuable as any other.  Having unique abilities tied to player characters can be fun, but when handled poorly it ruins the experience for everyone else.

The top-down twin-stick horde shooter Alien Swarm has various classes and class-specific weapons.  It does lend the game some replayability and I normally wouldn’t have a problem with it, but the biggest issue is that some levels REQUIRE a certain class.  If your tech marine dies, then you can’t get through the tech marine door, so you automatically lose the level and have to restart.  I call this kind of design “keycard design” or “keycard abilities,” because in this case the only thing distinguishing the Tech Marine from the rest of the group is that he’s a keycard used to open one specific door.

Even when the abilities aren’t keycards, they often mean a player must choose between something he likes to do (playing as his favourite character) and something he should do (playing as the character best suited for the level).  Overwatch had the same problem, as do many ASSFAGGOTS.

B4B survivors are not as essential to completing a level as an AS tech marine, but they have unique starting weapons and unique perks.  The “tuff granny” character starts with a shotgun secondary weapon, gives everyone an extra life, and the first time she picks up a downed teammate in each chapter is almost instant, for instance.  The fat white guy starts with a pistol, lets everyone in the group carry more ammunition, and makes zombies he kills more likely to drop ammo piles.

You may already see some problems with this: the fat guy should always be the one to get the killing blow on zombies to maximize ammo drops.  The granny should never be the one to revive a teammate unless it’s an emergency.  This is similar to AS: the tech marine should always be the one to handle a door or hacking section, because in addition to his keycard powers, he simply does that stuff faster than a medic or a heavy weapons guy.
L4D avoided this “should” problem by making everything universal, so players can make decisions based on the gameplay decisions that they made earlier:
>“who should wander out and push the button?”
>“Louis should do it since we all took so much damage we’re running slowly”
Using items could change this situation:
>“I want Louis here to cover the rest of us, so I’ll throw a pipe bomb that will let Francis trudge out and push the button”
>if a horde appeared later, you would want to have that pipe bomb
Items in L4D are acquired by scrounging around – slowing down and combing over the level for stuff, which makes for tension between playing for points by rushing, and playing for security by scrounging.  You can bum rush straight to the end of a level, but you won’t have anything except your guns and your wits to get past the finale.  You can scrounge around for additional health items and grenades to make your changes at the finale better, but if you take too long the director will spawn more zombies.

B4B enforces scrounging on the players, since they’ll likely be running out of ammunition and taking unavoidable damage throughout a level: scrounging is almost always worth it to make up for lost health and to get money.  You SHOULD be scrounging around.  Trying to play your own way and opting for speed instead of security is not viable.

. . . Unless you picked the character who gets stamina back every time she kills a zombie, which allows her to blaze past almost everything without breaking a sweat.  This naturally puts her at odds with the rest of the group.
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3. The Card System
Like all modern multiplayer games, B4B features a progression system to make you addicted to playing the game instead of playing for the sake of it.  The general premise is as follows:
>you build a deck of cards
>at the start of the first chapter you get the first card in your deck guaranteed
>after completing each other chapter you get to draw one card from your deck, within a random selection

Having a smaller deck means you have more control over what you draw, but you will more quickly be forced to draw basic cards (+10% stamina, +5 health) instead of more powerful ones (gain health for each kill at low life, replace your shove with a narrow melee attack).  Like all the rest of the game’s systems, the card system is both complicated and uninteresting.  It essentially serves as a way to ensure that characters become stronger over the course of a campaign.  I don’t know why this is so important that it requires its own mechanic.

Admittedly, L4D did have a problem with this: if you find a good weapon early in a campaign, like a top tier melee weapon then there is very little reason to change.  Thus weapons, one one of the primary rewards for scrounging, become effectively worthless.  Further, if you’re full on healing items, then any additional healing item you find is also uninteresting because you simply chug whatever you’re holding, pick up the new one, and move on.

The card system does allow the B4B devs to place items around the map which will always be useful: there are unique cards that do things such as giving you bonus damage and movement speed whenever a teammate is downed, for instance.   These will always be worthwhile even if you’re armed to the teeth and at full health.

However, as I mentioned before, if someone decides that he wants to build a specific way with the minimum deck size, then he will quickly be reduced to choosing basic cards every new chapter.  It kind of defeats the point of the system if it’s so easy to sidestep the system.  And if the point of the system isn’t to foster interesting choices and force/encourage players to make them, then why bother?
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The final thing to note about the card system’s failures is that there was an interesting opportunity to be had here: the game also applies card modifiers to levels, such as having murders of crows on the ground which caw and attract zombies if you disturb them, and having zombies that are stronger and more aggressive than normal.  From the way it’s displayed on the screen, I thought I had some choice over these modifiers for each level (you can highlight them by mousing over them), but that isn’t the case.  The game has already decided what modifiers are being used on a particular level, and it’s just telling you.

The obvious thing, from my view, is to have there be a vote among the survivors: every modifier you take makes the map harder, but also gives you one additional card from your deck.  If the cards were balanced around each other, then this could introduce a neat form of dynamic difficulty.  A group where everyone is good at moving around doesn’t have much to fear from murders of crows, so they may choose to take the aggressive zombies modifier in exchange for an additional card – but if things go wrong and you step into a murder of crows, then things will become much harder for you.  And the best part is that it would all happen because of things the players chose and did.

Too fun.  Of course you can’t do that.

Weirdly, the one thing this reminds me of is the Uncharted 2 multiplayer beta, which I loved back when I was stupid enough to like the Uncharted games.  You could vote on game modes and weapon loadouts, and it made for a lot of fun (if memory serves; it’s been 10 years).  A game would play out very differently depending on the weapons chosen: grenades and shotguns, sniper rifles and RPGs, etc.  Giving every player every option can lead to minmaxing, which can kind of takes the fun out of things.  I think the B4B card system fell into that trap.
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4. Character Designs
Because B4B is a modern multiplayer game, the characters check a few boxes:
>characters are all pozzed
>they look like fortnite characters
>they never shut up
>you have no control over what they say
>they try WAY too hard to be funny

As much as people like to say “muh silhouette” and leave it at that, the character designs in L4D(2) were very specific: the characters needed to read well against hordes of zombies, and they needed to show distinct personalities.  Louis and Coach are both bald black dudes, but they have completely different personalities and backstories.  You can see this from the way they look.

The B4B survivors lack this personality.  The black guy, Walker, and the spic in the middle, Angelo, are both mutt-pandering characters with flat personalities.  The chick in the front with the bat is an annoying bitch.  The only white men are a fat guy, Hoffman, and someone who looks like he’s going to be mentally unstable (the fat guy was the only playable white man in the beta).  When my friends and I first saw the character designs, we joked that the other characters would berate the fat guy for being white.

Well, they don’t quite go that far but they do give him way more shit than everyone else.  Hoffman has daddy issues and often mutters to himself about not having been good enough for the football team, or how the world is out to get him, etc.  When the other characters kill big zombies or complete something they’ll celebrate and yell things like:
>”Whoo!  Take that you fucking zombie freaks!”
>”Just like the Fourth of July!” (shooting a jerry can full of gasoline)
>”We’re fuckin’ unstoppable!”
and so on.

When Hoffman says something like “Yeah, that felt good!  I knew something good would come out of this fuckin’ apocalypse!”, without fail, every other character will tell him that he’s being out of line and going too far and who the fuck would even say that and what the fuck is wrong with you, man?  I imagine the other white man will get a similar treatment in the final game, whereas the purple haired bitch on the left will be worshipped and coddled by everyone.
5. Forgetting Old Solutions

L4D’s items were very specific, and the developer commentary explains how each one fulfills a specific purpose.  B4B’s items have a lot of overlap (fireworks vs pipe bomb, razor wire vs molotov), which makes them feel muddy and less distinct.  Shere are also a lot of items in each chapter and you can buy any of them in the safe room, which means you will almost never be without an item of some kind.  I find this uninteresting, since it makes the various “states of having items” feel similar: playing L4D survivor with no health items is very different compared to having a health kit and pills to help you.

One specific problem with L4D’s item economy is that if everyone in the group already has something of a certain type (say, throwables) and you find another item of that type, there is no reason not to throw something you were holding and pick up the new one.  This leads to uninteresting fire-and-forget gameplay, and is a blemish on an otherwise clean system.  Instead of fixing this system, B4B has this problem in spades: you can fill up to maximum in the safe room, so there’s a very good chance any item you find will be an extra item.  This leads to unintersting gameplay where you chug every healing item and throw every throwable you find, regardless of whether you actually need to do so at the time you find it.  This problem isn’t even unique to L4D and it isn’t some nuanced, magical thing that only the L4D devs could have foreseen and designed around: it’s simple common sense and the B4B team’s blindness to it says a lot about their capabilities.

The B4B special infected are hot garbage:
>3 models, 2 variations (will likely be 3 on release)
>very hard to tell apart
>stupid names
>mechanical overlap: Exploder could literally just be a function of the Retch
To be more specific, there are 3 classes: fat guys, jumping guys, and tallboys (yes, they’re actually called that).  The fat guys in the beta were the Retch, who vomits acid, and the Exploder, who, well, explodes.  The jumping guys had the Stinger, who can cling to walls and has a damaging projectile attack, and the Hocker, who is the same but with a projectile that immobilizes his target and does damage over time.  The tallboys (Christ, that’s a stupid fucking name) have the Bruiser, who walks forward and bashes survivors around with a giant arm, and the Crusher, who walks forward and grabs someone to immobilize.

There are scads of problems, but I’ll try to be concise.  In many cases, the function of each special infected zombie is not clear just from looking at it, because it’s hard to a Bruiser from a Crusher, for instance.  They have an almost identical silhouette except for the Crusher’s giant mutated hand being covered in tendrils, and the other specials are even worse.  In gameplay, they all have problems.

What’s the point of the Crusher walking forward into melee range and grabbing a survivor?  His teammates will just shoot you.
What’s the point of a Bruiser walking forward into melee range just to deal damage?  That’s what the commons do.
Why would you make a highly mobile special (Hocker) that can cling to walls and be hard to shoot, AND let it immobilize survivors?  It’s such an annoying combination, and there’s really no reason to pick the Stinger.
Why isn’t the Exploder just part of the Retch?
There are also balance problems: the Retch is way too strong given how hard it is to see coming, and way too tanky given how annoying it is.
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There isn’t much to differentiate the B4B specials from one another except for their attacks.  Compare that to the L4D specials, which are all defined by movement, and it’s very dry.  B4B specials don’t do very much except try to put damage onto the survivors, which is uninteresting because they don’t interact with the rest of the gameplay systems.  L4D specials are focused, and their restrictions had clear implications for how they worked with other specials and commons.  You had the freedom to play them in various ways.  Let’s look at a couple comparisons.

Hunter vs Stinger/Hocker
The Hunter can jump around and move faster than any other special, and when he pounces on someone he pins them to the ground and starts slashing away.  He punishes people hard for being split up, and has incredible mobility, but he’s the only special that can’t move someone with his grab.  This is a notable flaw, because if the survivor team stays together, hunters don’t do much.
BUT the hunter’s pounce lets him frontload damage on his grab, because his pounce deals impact damage based on how far he traveled, which can be useful even against tight groups of survivors.  This means he can walljump to build travel time, then turn and jump at a survivor as soon as he sees his target.
BUT the survivors can dead stop a hunter in midair by timing a shove or melee attack if they’re sharp enough to see him coming.
BUT if they’re looking to the rooftops for a hunter they probably aren’t paying attention to the other zombies at ground level.
Two simple things (jumping, impact damage) let the hunter behave in several ways.  Setting up a pounce for impact damage is very different from setting up a pounce to punish someone for being split up.

The Hocker can just jump around at long range and pin survivors in a manner similar to the hunter, but without exposing himself.  It’s very annoying to play against, and much less flexible than anything the Hunter can do.

Boomer vs Retch
[diagram of boomer ranges vs retch ranges]
The L4D boomer is scary because he summons lots of commons and blinds people, not because of anything he actually does himself.  He doesn’t just push damage onto survivors.  The boomer is very squishy and he explodes when he dies, so killing him when he’s close to you is a bad idea.  It isn’t as simple as always killing him no matter what.

When a boomer’s main vomit attack is on cooldown, there is a little dance he and a survivor do: survivor wants to kill boomer, but from outside of his explosion range; boomer wants to explode on survivor, and maybe scratch for some minor damage; survivor can shove boomer away outside of explosion range, but shoving the boomer too much will kill it; survivor can’t just ignore the boomer because then he’ll run away and recharge his main vomit attack.
It’s a lovely cycle that encourages both sides to think about their positioning, and is different depending on whether the two are standing on the ground or on a narrow bridge.  If the survivor is blinded from boomer bile, it becomes even more difficult for the survivor to kill the boomer because he’s likely being mobbed by commons.

The B4B retch is scary because he vomits acid from ludicrous range and deals impact damage before you can react, AND puts acid puddles on the floor, AND slows down the survivor, AND puts a damage over time effect on you, AND has a lot of health.  The best thing the retch can do is to hide on the other side of the map and vomit damage at the survivors, because his vomit is almost impossible to see coming.  Why would he ever go in?  Why would he ever interact with other gameplay systems? Why would he ever give the survivors the chance to kill him?
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Both the boomer and the hunter can either support or initiate team strikes (boomer causes chaos, then hunter pounces OR hunter pounces someone and knocks other people away, then boomer sprays them while they’re distracted).  Despite being simpler, each one of these infected can be used in different ways, which is both satisfying and fun.  The retch is notably overpowered compared to the other specials, but the design philosophy is the same: what is the point of this infected? what’s it supposed to do?

The answer surely isn’t “be long range artillery and never be seen by the survivors” yet that’s exactly what it does.  If you give a player More Choices™, it doesn’t inherently make things better: he’ll likely just choose the best one all the time.

Thus concludes my 5,000-word rant about Back 4 Blood and why I would still prefer to play L4D(2) more than a decade after their releases.  Feel free to share your own opinions if you played the beta, or to ask for any clarification.  Goodness knows I don’t have anything better to do with my time.
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It's very nice of you to put this much effort into making your own thread and making such a lengthy review
Problem is, I don't think you will get much of a reaction from users here.
There's some good effort here and I appreciate it. If you ask me, I can give you a (You) for every one of your posts. They're that good.
Tell me to send them to you and maybe I'll do it.
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That's a pretty nice summary, from the moment I saw shit like the card system I expected it would turn out this way due to being a modern triple shit game. Lots of systems designed to addict and pad out the game instead of a pure arcade like experience like L4D had. Pure marketing and nostalgia baiting, disgusting shit.
I knew this game was going to be shit as soon as I saw the survivors but seeing proof in how terrible the gameplay is helps give me some finality in knowing my initial thoughts were true.
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I'll read the rest of it later, but I can't understand why developers keep trying to beat players to creating the ugliest characters possible.
Players can do enough tasteless damage with character creators, why do they shit on their own games like this?
Replies: >>85850 >>85852
Disgusting people create disgusting art.
Bless your autism, OP. You're unironically a true hero. While I don't mind diverse character rosters, I do raise an eyebrow at the latino and the thicc white man. I've never met or seen a spanish man with hair like that. Fat man would have been fine, from a joke character standpoint, if they had another white male or white men that were normal or cool.
I get what you mean. Shouldn't you want your characters to be appealing? Game devs need to stop hiring artists from the San Fran, New York, Sweden, and similar areas. Especially if they're an artist that spends does anything other than post their art or like memes on Twitter. You'd be surprised how many porn artists I stopped following after they showed their true colors on Twitter.
Replies: >>85955
Nice autism. I pretty much just saw that the game looked like shit and had micro transactions and dropped it. 
In hindsight I should've expected the game to fuck up on the most basic aspects, but I still have some dumb belief that it's hard to fuck up when you're effectively copying something good 1:1. 
That said I do hope there's some lewds of the girl with the bat, nose scars activate my dick and are too underused.
Replies: >>85857
Patrician taste. I would post some women with scars, but I'm on tor and it's being gay.
I think my favorite part of this thread is that you wrote thousands of words about how bad this game is and never even directly mentioned how fucked up the versus mode was.  For those who don't know, there's no option to play the campaigns in versus mode like L4D.  Instead, all you get is a survival mode.  The play area for the human players gradually shrinks, each team gets a go as humans, goal is to last longer than the other team.  Infected players get to choose which special to spawn as and score points for dealing damage that they can spend on upgrades.  As you can imagine, this just degenerates into Retch spam once everyone figures out how good he is.  Even if people aren't doing that, the nature of the game mode is very static, since there's little reason for survivors to do anything other than find a centrally located defensible spot and stay there the whole time.  I cannot imagine playing it for more than the one game I did in the beta, it is that boring.
I have one thing to add here.  Several of the B4B characters have brightly colored clothes, which you would think is done to help them stand out against the relatively dull zombies.  This doesn't actually work, because every character quickly gets covered in blood which does not fade and obscures their original textures.
Replies: >>85864
>they put BR into L4D
nothing is safe
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I had some hope for B4B, but after the first trailer with ADS and the generic CY+6 characters it faded pretty quickly. L4D's appeal was its simplicity, I stray away from games that have a shitton of customization and ultimately meaningless depth, it's too much to understand or care about. Sometimes I just want to join a game, shoot zombies, fuck up humans, get kicked because L4D2 versus community is fucking abysmal and that's it. I don't care about DLC, loot boxes, skins, outfits, I just want to shoot stuff. Oh well, L4D2 is still going strong and this might even cause a resurgence depending on how bad it is. also in all my years i have never seen any good porn of rochelle, she is truly just a completely unattractive character
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So basically I should just re-install L4D2 and enjoy some nostalgia of a better time? Thanks for doing the work for me OP you are a standup guy.
Replies: >>87570
>Survivors in L4D(2) are completely cosmetic: Zoey has the same movement options and speed as Francis, etc.
In a technical sense I think Zoey has a smaller hitbox but that's very minor.

>The final thing to note about the card system’s failures is that there was an interesting opportunity to be had here: the game also applies card modifiers to levels, such as having murders of crows on the ground which caw and attract zombies if you disturb them, and having zombies that are stronger and more aggressive than normal.  From the way it’s displayed on the screen, I thought I had some choice over these modifiers for each level (you can highlight them by mousing over them), but that isn’t the case.  The game has already decided what modifiers are being used on a particular level, and it’s just telling you.
This feels like an unnatural evolution of L4D's AI director but directly telling you what will change at the start of the level for compfags and progression-addicts to theorycraft instead of the AI director modifying things based on player behaviour and how much they're struggling to try and make an interesting game.
Replies: >>85879
>This feels like an unnatural evolution of L4D's AI director but directly telling you what will change at the start of the level
At least in a good game I'd expect this feature to not cancel out the AI Director and just be used for maybe a multiplier in a versus or to offer more exotic sidegrades that would get annoying if they would just pop up all the time. Deep Rock Galactic does this with cave hazards, although those aren't applied to the mission per player request but just randomly appear on the mission overview screen.
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OP's review is interesting.

Even the inexplicably extant L4D arcade game has more interesting characters than that shit. How do you fuck up that badly?
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>If your tech marine dies, then you can’t get through the tech marine door, so you automatically lose the level and have to restart.
>You may already see some problems with this: the fat guy should always be the one to get the killing blow on zombies to maximize ammo drops.  The granny should never be the one to revive a teammate unless it’s an emergency.  This is similar to AS: the tech marine should always be the one to handle a door or hacking section, because in addition to his keycard powers, he simply does that stuff faster than a medic or a heavy weapons guy.
I had some fun with this review, but ultimately I had to drop it halfway through. I don't really think I blame the review for this--there are plenty of people who read and enjoy this review, after all, but it's just not the review for me. The technical tone that started it off kept me going for a good while (although I hope the irony of calling out pretentious people for using a now-widespread term and then immediately afterwards coining a term wasn't lost on the OP) but my interest just flagged at about the halfway point. To be fair to the developer of this review, I hadn't really enjoyed reviews of this review's spiritual predecessors L4D and L4D2 reviews, so I went into the review not really expecting to get much out of it, and was actually pleasantly surprised at enjoying it as much as I did. Recognizing the care and effort that went into the review and reconciling it with the couple of times I rolled my eyes and the patent fact that I didn't and couldn't finish it, I think this review earns an 8.7/10 although I wouldn't read it again.
Replies: >>85922 >>85923
It really bothers me how so many multiplayer games are so intent on out of match progression systems. I'm more than fine with the developers and the whales sucking each other off with lootboxes, microtransactions and whathave you as long as they're purely cosmetic(and I can turn them off for visiblity's sake, for all of my issues with Rocket League this is one feature I really wish other games would implement). Once you start having players pick, customize and tailor their skills and weapons you start muddying the "purity" of the game and then good luck balancing difficulty, enemies and level design beyond just ramping up the damage numbers. At the most I'm fine with a general loadout like Payday The Heist's(although the ridiculously powerful DLC grenade launcher and auto turret was a very poor choice to add to the game) as long as it's premade, static shit. Just because I liked the rifle I got at the beginning of the game doesn't mean it should become obsolete because there's another rifle with superfluous decals, a level 30 tag on it and whatnot.
Also apparently the full release of B4B will have Denuvo, so yet another reason not to touch this shit.
thanks ign
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Thank you for your service OP. I watched some prerelease footage and knew I didn't like what I saw. I appreciate your effort codifying your impressions. I predict that on release the shills will flood mainstream forums saying that "it's not meant to be like L4D, stop comparing them" because of how poorly it stacks up.
>It really bothers me how so many multiplayer games are so intent on out of match progression systems
I was going to say that match based games shouldn't have out of match progression, but then I realized that Phasmophobia does it right though it's kinda primitive by virtue of being early access. 
You start with all the tools required to complete any level, you can go to the biggest level in the hardest difficulty, stumble upon the worst ghost, and win because everything you need is already there by default. You could buy another EMF and leave it in the ghost's room to serve as an alarm and make your life easier, but you're still just as vulnerable. You could buy a thermometer and be able to single out the colder rooms, but if the ghost freezes shit you'll be able to notice it even without one(which is something you need to win). 
Extra tools are just extra, you buy them once and they last forever if you're good enough, so it feels fair, but if you die you lose all your items and only get a fraction of the money back(which depends on the difficulty). It's effectively a way to remove your items and make money still matter without requiring constant marginal upgrades, changing the meta, or powercreep. 
That said I'm aware that I'm comparing an actual game to a rigged slot machine, my point is that it could work if the devs weren't faggots.
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>>85812 (OP) 
>imblying I was going to buy it
>imblying anyone didn't expect a CY+6 game that  wasn't pozzed garbage
>imblying imblications
but yeah, just confirmed my suspicions, the fact they marketed it with "from the devs of left 4 dead" was an instant red flag
>>85812 (OP) 
Well put, thanks OP.
The moment I saw gun attachments I knew they were fucking up the tight formula with loosey goosey shit.
>second image
That's pretty heartwarming. Fuck, Valve really did fall from grace.
>While I don't mind diverse character rosters
Getting into virtue signaling territory, there.
Oh, I get it now. Fuck off nigger.
Replies: >>85957 >>85968
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>Uses heartwarming
>Complains about thicc
>Mentions virtue signalling, but then does his own by telling some anon to go back/leave
Be careful when trying to act like a tough guy, nigger. You might end up looking like a fool in the process.
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<abloobloobloo why can't i talk like a nigger without being called a nigger
<I KNOW!!!! ill call HIM a nigger so he cant call me a nigger anymore, thatll protect me XDDDDDDDDD!
Goddamn, you must have been the most brilliant tactician in all of Gaia Online, or wherever you crawled out of. Make like your ancestors and hang out elsewhere, you braindead nigger.
Replies: >>85968
you're both faggots, now shut up and talk about how L4D2 was better than L4D.
Replies: >>85982 >>86002
Not against it in different vidya, but in a L4D clone, on top of other extra variables like weapon parts and cards, this all turns into a giant lootbox hunt, doesn't it?
Will it have lootboxes?
Will it have extra cosmetics?
Will it let me splurge on the most mundane to attain the least mundane result?
Will they affect gameplay? 
Will Smith was alright in Wild Wild West.
I want to ravage her insides
L4d2 was such a natural refinement to a game I think it should be studied.
>It really bothers me how so many multiplayer games are so intent on out of match progression systems. I
It's an extremely easy way to keep people playing without having to design a game with enough depth in its mechanics to do that naturally. Take some content, slap an arbitrary XP counter in front of it maybe 5 minutes of programming and it's done. In other cases, as with this game, it's used to up the complexity of the game without actually making its mechanics any deeper so people immersed in the game feel like they're part of a special group of competitive players for learning the 8,000 combinations possible even when most of them are worthless outside of the meta.

A well made game has simple mechanics that still contribute to deep play based on player skill and actions (think arena fps, classic RTS). A shitty modern game is complicated without being deep: anyone can learn all the mechanics they've put on top given time rather than having to master a basic skillset then create their own style. They just pick a progression-grinding unlock for their playstyle instead.
I dont think L4D2 did anything worse than its predecessor though I will say the graphics felt a little darker and more somehow more realistic with L4D1 whereas in L4D2 things felt a bit more romanticized to me, maybe thats just me who feels that way. Everything else as I mentioned was a straight upgrade. Melee weapons, new infected with nice niches they filled, and brilliant map/level design. Plus the music was beautifully orchestrated and had a lot of attention to detail. I have my reservations about two nigger characters but its the deep south so I will let it slide. 

Did ANYBODY like Rochelle? Anybody?
Replies: >>86004 >>87570
They unironically should have gone full sheboon with Rochelle.
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I have absolutely no illusions about this game being a heap of garbage and don't even place it near L4D, but I still want to play it with a friend just to kill some time and play a zombie game. I like those.
>Also apparently the full release of B4B will have Denuvo
FUCK now this is a reason that might make me stay away from it. The fuck's the point of having it on a multiplayer game? It better not.
Replies: >>88083 >>88097
>One specific problem with L4D’s item economy is that if everyone in the group already has something of a certain type (say, throwables) and you find another item of that type, there is no reason not to throw something you were holding and pick up the new one.  This leads to uninteresting fire-and-forget gameplay, and is a blemish on an otherwise clean system.  Instead of fixing this system...

I'm not sure how you could "fix" players conserving their items by playing well, other than making the game cheat and force you to use them, which is not fun. Your argument here doesn't make sense. In Left 4 Dead 2 you also want the items you think you'll need the most ahead. If 2 of your team mates have a molotov, there's no real sense in picking up another instead of a pipe bomb. Having 4 players with shotguns and frying pans might get you in trouble, depending on the situation. Generally you want a group balance of items.
Replies: >>86287
Great post, you summarised all of my issues with the game. I know you touched upon it, but another problem is the character writing is awful, everything they say is stupid and unfunny.
Replies: >>86152
What are their personalities like, or are they just regular faggots who spout off quirky dialog every now and then and no one has an actual personality?
Replies: >>86287
>I'm not sure how you could "fix" players conserving their items by playing well
This is solved in L4D itself by player controlled infested and the time based score system.
Replies: >>86287
One thing I heard was that there was no music what so ever. That’s incredible considering how pivotal musical cues were in L4D2. You could always tel what was about to happen and tension would suddenly shoot up with each musical cue. You’d be fine and then “Oh boy a special infecteds coming. Wait is that witch music? OH FUCK TANK MUSIC!” I think you are right on the money with saying they forgot a lot of lessons learnt with L4D1&2. 

Wasn’t B4B supposed to originally star the Midnight Riders?
Replies: >>86196
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That's bullshit, but I believe it.
Thanks you, L4D2, for introducing me to motherfucking CLUTCH.
Replies: >>86208
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????????? ?????????????????? ????????????????? ?????????????????????? ????
Replies: >>86210
Clutch had a track in L4D2, I think it was Electric Worry?
Replies: >>86214
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Yes Electric Worry was the music used for the trailer and also can be played on the jukeboxes if I recall correctly.
Replies: >>86287
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Perhaps "problem" was the wrong word.  More like "consequence."  If the point of mechanics and systems is to force players to make interesting choices, then having things that should be done with no drawback is not good.  Assuming your group has a good spread of throwables, every time you see a new molotov, you should throw it (unless there's a wandering witch, etc.).  Even if it only kills one zombie, it was worth it.

The medkit slot struggles with this a LOT more than the throwable slot, because the game is balanced around medkits bringing a survivor to about 80 HP and the rest of the healing items only restoring temporary HP.  There's no reason to forego a medkit in favour of a defibrillator or an ammo pack, since:
- the defibrillator is only used to resurrect someone who's died, which the medkit prevents
- the ammo packs can just be deployed instantly whenever you find them, nullifying the choice

This could be adjusted by having ammo be more of a squeeze or with more scarce resources in general, but at that point you'd get something more akin to B4B instead of L4D(2)'s arcadey fun.

>What are their personalities like
>in a modern AAA game
That's like pineapple on pizza: just plain wrong.

>time-based scoring system
The default Versus mode doesn't use time as a scoring metric in L4D2, and I don't think it does in L4D, either.  Distance is the primary means by which a team is scored, but there are other factors in L4D that mean it has a better scoring system even if it is more swingy.  The Scavenge and VS Survival game modes use time as a metric, but they're pretty lacklustre in comparison to the default Versus mode.

Another Clutch song - Regulator, I think - was used in the The Walking Dead TV series before it became total trash.  Something about that band and zombies.
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>that webm
holy shit, was this written by a woman?
A woman that thinks she's funny?
Throwing molotovs around without purpose seems like asking for trouble. You could get pulled or knocked in to the fire, you might block off a route you need, or you're just killing stragglers which you shouldn't be doing, since they count towards the spawn limit. Tanks and witches can also kill a player easily. The game is designed to spawn you specific items depending on how well or poor you are doing. It is quite fair to the player in stock maps, giving you breaks after a tough battle, or when you get downed, except for finales. In practical gameplay on expert, it's not common to have a team fully stacked with 4 medkits, 4 pills and 4 molotovs. Ammo packs are also useful for deploying before events you trigger, or when fighting a tank. Instant deployment is generally not an advantage over waiting, unless you're playing versus.
This is just painful to listen to.
Also do people not have a go to lame joke topic besides dude pineapple pizza lmao
Replies: >>86522
>what if we made every character Rochelle?
When everything becomes offensive there is nothing to really go to.
Replies: >>86712
Reminder that they deleted a voice clip for zombies only because it sounds like they say "nigga", even though that wasn't the intention.
Replies: >>87573
>>85812 (OP) 
You forgot to mention some of the most unforgivable shit they did with the game, the VS mode and not allowing modding.

When I played the beta with some friends, the mystery meat and boss nigger were the only characters nobody had selected yet, I picked the mystery meat.  His mouth shit out line and I immediately switched to the nig, I don't remember what the line was but he felt like an extremely obnoxious Michelangelo from Ninja Turtles.  

>So basically I should just re-install L4D2 and enjoy some nostalgia of a better time?
Modding has added a lot of great stuff to the game.  Me and some friends have been diving into the workshop for custom maps for co-op and VS.  It really gives the game new life.
For anyone that's interested here are some of my favorites.
>Hard Rain: Downpour 
<A Hard Rain remake, probably my favorite
>Dark Carnival: Remix 
<A fantastic remake, the only problem is it gets a little to dense in the last couple chapters
>I Hate Mountains 2 
<Great for co-op but not balanced for VS
>The Dark Parish - Remastered 
<It's just The Parish but at night and with a few tweaks.  The night setting makes a huge difference.
>Deadbeat Escape (Complete) 
<Just a all around solid map
>Taco Bucket 
<another solid map but it's co-op only>

Did ANYBODY like Rochelle? Anybody?
When I reinstalled the game I used a model and voice swap so I wouldn't have to see or hear her.
Also maybe she wouldn't be so bad if she just wasn't so fucking bland.
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>Reminder that they deleted a voice clip for zombies only because it sounds like they say "nigga"
>it's actually real
Removing it makes it seem like it was intentional instead of the magical accident it is.
Replies: >>87576
I wouldnt have noticed that unless I was specifically asked to think they said 'nigga'. I think the nigger playing this game has a victim complex.
So this shit has Easy Anti-Cheat AND Denuvo?
Gee B4B, how come your mom lets you have TWO types of cancer?
Social media is pure cancer
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Did anyone else expect they'd give it a vampire theme with the name? I wasn't expecting much, and yet they didn't even change the theme of the game they were shittily copying. It's a tragedy that Zombie Master (hybrid RTS/FPS source mod that was killed by L4D) is barely shambling along while this garbage suckers retards into playing it and paying for the dubious privilege.

I don't know anon, even without the context of the streamer I think I'd hear nigger and probably laugh my ass off ingame.
Replies: >>88060
I heard it very clearly even if i didn't have context
It would have been better, more original, and honestly changed little if they did vampires instead of zombies. I say it would change little because there's little involvement of infection on the player-character's part, and so little expected if it were vampires instead. Maybe then they'd be stuck with doing night levels or have some kind of daytime mechanic mixup, but eh.
Of the recent games released with players v. monsters scenario, I think that jason vorhees game did the best, along with dead by daylight. With how simple its to design a zombie game, you'd wonder
The specials all suck in B4B. In L4D they had their distinctions and roles, mostly disruptive and none of them (except tank, but that's boss special) could frontload damage while every one could get killed/shoved/avoided before they could do anything, this and map design with ledges, narrow corridors, no return areas and random witches which B4B lacks (they just look like generic singleplayer maps) forced both infected and survivors to cooperate to achieve their goal.
In B4B specials are just big or looks-like-other-zombies bads with tons of health which are mostly impossible to avoid being damaged by and barely do anything outside bullet sponging and doing damage. Generic and boring as fuck. This really shows that B4B devs haven't really played L4D they just went "we want l4d clone hurrdurr" and that's it.

>The fuck's the point of having it on a multiplayer game?
None, except striking their dicks (which are most likely already chopped off via Darwin approved surgery) that their game is big and known enough for denuvo to not make them lose money and they'll totally defeat the yarr pirate that is the the best source of advertisement for GOOD small/medium sized games. Plain idiocy.
Replies: >>88085
>This really shows that B4B devs haven't really played L4D they just went "we want l4d clone hurrdurr" and that's it.
I thought turtle rock's entire gimmick is that they keep claiming they're ex L4D devs.
Replies: >>88184
Denuvo is spyware and makes tons of money for harvesting personal data, they likely pay some big game devs to include it as they'll turn a profit anyways.
Replies: >>88098
>source: my ass
Replies: >>88099
>Denuvo requires periodic internet connection to function
>some free2play games include Denuvo
>some online-only games include Denuvo
>some low budget games include Denuvo
>a lot of Epic shovelware includes Denuvo
>some game keep "paying" for Denuvo long after being cracked, instead of dropping the supposedly expensive contract ASAP
>Denuvo does nothing to stop other forms of piracy such as CreamAPI to spoof DLC ownership
>a lot of games try and hide the fact they use Denuvo
>a single individual even bothers to crack Denuvo, a lack of competition never seen before in the piracy scene
There's no hard evidence yet, but there are plenty of clues against the official story.
Replies: >>88184
I don't know about turtle rocks but I think almost every "we used to work on gamename_we_plan_to_copy" dev talks out of his ass for cheap marketing and probably was janitor/tester/irrelevant junior. There's are very few exceptions to this.

>>some free2play games include Denuvo
>and probably was janitor/tester/irrelevant junior
Even the ones that actually did something usually were in an ideal pair or something, and it won't mean shit for the new game. I struggle to think of a single scenario where an "I used to work on X" dev actually brought the positives from that game onto the new one.
>I don't know about turtle rocks but I think almost every "we used to work on gamename_we_plan_to_copy" dev talks out of his ass for cheap marketing and probably was janitor/tester/irrelevant junior. There's are very few exceptions to this.
Even when it is the actual big names from the projects they frequently still fuck it up (see Underworld Ascendant). Now, more than ever before, games are created by massive teams. The only place you find consistency in games development is small teams and one man shops, but they can't tackle the same scale of project.
Replies: >>88192 >>88708
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>indie devs cant handle the pissant amount of content and retarded, probably illegal ideas like “taking away content you paid for and and charging you the price of a full fame for it” that not even EA tried to pull off.
That was pretty much my exact reaction: there was one short free game by SqEnix and some pay2win gacha shit, both of them using Denuvo, and the guy on the usual russian forum were lmaoing at them.
I didn't discover this until just now, but someone made a comparison video going over every similar point between L4D2 and B4B.  I think you can guess which game has better physics, animations, and a higher level of detail.
Replies: >>88718 >>88724
>(see Underworld Ascendant)
>look this up
I did not know what this was, and I did not need to know what this was.
Fucking Kickstarter.
"What's that?"
Why are the characters so chipper and upbeat in B4B?
Is it too much to ask that characters take the situations they're placed in seriously?
Replies: >>88727
Not when the dialogue is written by a woman.
I'm curious, was it really? It's just that it sounds like every shitty modern sit-com.
Replies: >>89265 >>89270
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Apparently not.
How is it that only game on that list I've played was fucking Aarklash Legacy
Replies: >>89270 >>89286
I recall the game was force-fed diversity, such as a black doctor (in 19th century UK), mentioned homosexuality you cannot object against (since you're not given a dialogue option to speak against it), etc. There were some screencaps with woke compilations from this game, but I don't recall much; the game was rather bland and hardly memorable.
A playable female character, depictions of boys and girls studying in school together (in ancient Greece women didn't have citizen rights and nobody would treat them seriously), cuckoldry (a man asks you, a foreigner and an alien, to fuck his wife, and some Spartan customs of taking a wife away from a man if he couldn't have kids is brought up as an explanation); and of course reinforcement of the myth of Greek homosexuality (which was not a case). Here's a good video that speaks at length of the game's propaganda and purposeful distortion of history.
Replies: >>89272
Aarklash was nothing like that, it was back when Cyanide Studios was even more of a trash factory than they currently are. It played kind of like a singleplayer assfaggots(four skills per character, focus on skillshots and AoEs and avoiding the big red areas from the enemy units) and truth be told they were actually onto something because it was pretty fun especially some of the puzzle bosses(like an enemy that spawns five healers who move around and throw heals to the boss, so you'd have to intercept their healing projectiles so you'd get healed instead, likewise with one of your base healers, her best healing ability was a skillshot but it could also heal enemies. So you could upgrade it to deal damage to enemies but at the cost of lower healing to your guys, stuff like that) but it was short, rushed(like Of Orcs and Men/Forged By Fire/other games by Spiders Studios it starts off frontloading all of its content at the starting chapter and then the other chapters are completely linear and end five times quicker than the previous ones) and kind of janky.
Also not that this is the place to bring this up but I hate this somewhat recent narrative being pushed of Sparta/Athens having special forces full of faggots who were totally superhuman and that much better than entire armies on the battlefield because they had their "lovers" fighting with them and their super special bond made them stronger like taking it up the ass made you immune to enemy spears or something, both from a "are you so fucking stupid you think that's how wars were like" point and "are you so fucking retarded this is how you choose to justify to others why you feel the way you do about your kink"
>The Surge
That game had decent writing without any poz from what I remember of it, so perhaps it's the exception that proves the rule.  Thena gain, it might simply be that his style of soulless, unfunny writing was a perfect fit for the soulless corporate atmosphere of the game.
God damn it, this thread has me wanting to play L4D2 again. Is the community still full of unfun faggots who votekick you if you don't have ten thousand hours or have they relaxed? I always had to play with at least one friend just to not get votekicked by spastics.
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>Is the community still full of unfun faggots who votekick you if you don't have ten thousand hours
Replies: >>89481
>Is the community still full of unfun faggots who votekick you if you don't have ten thousand hours
Yes, although ragequitting is more common.  Sometimes you can get matched up with a few of the thousands of people who bought it because it was on sale for pennies.  Playing with a friend or two is mandatory if you want to brave public lobbies.
Replies: >>89424 >>89481
I recently played it splitscreen with a kid who was 2 when it came out. We had a blast, especially when we went nuts with mods. Most were intrusive as hell though oddly fitting like fall guys as zombies and pokemon trainer survibors but I’m not turning off SHIA LABOUFE hunter noises. 

**He was so “sad” in the passing when we found brock from pewter cities corpse. Why didnt he send out geodude he asked”
So is the way how 4 player PvE co-op games now is having shitty out of match progression system? This is the reason why I never touched Payday 2 despite it looking nice, because having something like "okay you have one assault rifle, and you can unlock a new shotgun, a precision rifle or an LMG, have fun choosing what playstyle you want" is fine, having sixty flavors of rifle, LMG, sniper or shotgun is fucking retarded and so is all sorts of silly skill tree systems it feels like too much fucking around outside of the actual game. Plus it really muddies the difficulty of the games since I can't tell if the really high difficulties actually require really good play on behalf of the team or just requiring some guy abusing ridiculously powerful skill tree items or powerful items/loot(like apparently Payday 2 has an instant, remote, full health revive skill tree unlock and crossbows that can oneshot dozers, what the fuck is that cancer)
Also comparing the OSTs, the Heist's music is much better than 2's. fite me
Replies: >>89664
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Do you guys want left 4 dead 2? I honestly would love to play that with you all. What are your favorite mods to use?

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Hell yeah. I don't mind the health pack mod but I am already using the potato chip mod. How many other anons do you think we could get to join us? How would we set it up as well? I know there exist private dedicated servers.
Replies: >>89501 >>89535
I'm sure someone knows, but that someone isn't me.
Haven't played L4D2 in years.
Replies: >>89526
Is it possible to play a match with like 10 people at once instead of 4? Can you play it free? I'm interested in a l4d gamenight, because I have only played it offline.
Replies: >>89509 >>89535
I think the most you can get is eight in versus, four survivors and four special infected.
Replies: >>89515 >>89523
you can get 8 in campaign with some gay mod solution
>Spammed with more zombies opening the first  door than a shitty discord meme.

L4D is aids. How the fuck does this overrated game have a cult following more vocal than tf2?
Replies: >>89526 >>89535
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Not everyone will have the same tastes as you when it comes to video games. I personally think left 4 dead is a good game but I understand why people would dislike it. I think the collection of weapons could be expanded upon. In a semi recent update a couple of years ago they added some more guns into the game. What exactly is your biggest gripe with L4D, anon?
Yeah, you can play all games for free anon. They require you to enter a certain bay that involves swashbuckling, rum, and cutlasses but the name of that bay eludes me. 
Being more serious about it, no L4D is not free to play. It is currently 10$ on steam. I am unaware if paypigs can play with freefags as I've never done that before. I don't at all blame you for wanting get it for free though.

I am also aware that we have a fair amount of poor fags on this board so please allow me to calm the nerves of poor fags by explaining that L4D is a low resource intensive game. It certainly can be a resource hog if you want it to be but It runs fine on my computer, which isn't very good. Here are the specs copied from the steam store page.

OS: Windows® 7 32/64-bit / Vista 32/64 / XP
Processor: Pentium 4 3.0GHz
Memory: 2 GB RAM
Graphics: Video card with 128 MB, Shader model 2.0. ATI X800, NVidia 6600 or better
DirectX: Version 9.0c
Storage: 13 GB available space
Sound Card: DirectX 9.0c compatible sound card

OS: Windows® 7 32/64-bit / Vista 32/64 / XP
Processor: Intel core 2 duo 2.4GHz
Memory: 2 GB RAM
Graphics: Video Card Shader model 3.0. NVidia 7600, ATI X1600 or better
DirectX: Version 9.0c
Storage: 13 GB available space
Sound Card: DirectX 9.0c compatible sound card 

Also, if you are all interested in playing another coop zombie game, there's dead rising 2 (maximum of 4 players in a game show gamemode which is actually kind of fun. 2 players for coop campaign)
No more room in hell is also another game we could try to play. It's probably the most accessible because it's free and often has empty dedicated servers. 

Some thing else I also thought of would be project zomboid. I don't think the fully 3d update is out yet and I couldn't be a host fag due to poor PC performance and bad internet but there could be an open dedicated servers we could look for. This is also another game I will probably buy a dedicated server for. I had plans to do the same for minecraft when I get a job so anons could play with each other.
>do you want to play?
Sure.  I play it all the time with friends already.
Sure.  What time?
>How do we play?
You'll have to bite the bullet and buy it on Steam.  I could probably spring for a few codes and email them to anons that can't afford tenbux.
>reeee DRM
Not my problem.
Because Valve is extremely homosexual, they removed the ability to use mods in versus (somewhat understandable) and sprays/the laugh voice line in versus (indefensible).  This means you'll need a community/custom server in order to play with mods on versus, which is part of the fun.
>So how do we use custom severs?
There isn't a server browser in L4D2 because the game was rushed and promptly abandoned, so connecting to a server requires the use of console commands and an IP address + port.  I know a guy who runs a custom server with a public and private version, so we could just use that, although the connection may be rough for people outside of North America.  I've also collected a list of various community/custom servers that seem not to have gay shit on them, and I can share that as well as provide a short guide on how to connect to custom servers.

We'll probably just play on vanilla campaigns to prevent further headache.

There are custom servers with game modes that allow for more than the usual player limit (4 in campaign, 8 in versus) but they almost always have tonnes of gay shit that ruins the game.

>game about killing hordes of zombies spawns hordes of zombies for you to kill
Anon . . .
Replies: >>89541
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>using Steam
DOA. Gamenights must be piratefag only, linking your identity with any site that has a /pol/ is suicide.
Replies: >>89543
>you're stupid for telling me the truth
Sounds like a personal problem.
Replies: >>89545
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Yes, you being stupid enough to assume DRM was acceptable for a gamenight is your personal problem.
Replies: >>89550 >>89553
Oh fuck, are we actually going to play a game I have AND that I care about playing? Holy shit!
>multiple people in the thread already own the game and want to play it with other anons
<it's YOUR problem for ASSUMING that people here WANT to play it
Feel free to stop posting any time.
Replies: >>89567
I think someone could get a piratefag L4D setup using Smart Steam Emu. It's fairly easy and I've done it with other games Darksiders Genesis before.
Replies: >>89567 >>89597
Just more real life proof buyfags are human dirt.
Replies: >>89560
>t. fag paying for a vpn that will gladly give away his info at the first sign of trouble
Replies: >>89571
To be clear, if you're willing to spread your asscheeks and able to find others also willing to spread their asscheeks, that's fine and I don't have a problem with it. Fags do it with EDF all the time here. You only look like a fag when you try to get the whole board in on it and act like tying imageboard events to a jew product that may rat you out for having bombmaking instructions and back issues of Comic LO is acceptable.
This is the ideal solution. IIRC if the server is patched to not connect to Valve and kick bad goys, both piratefags and paypigs can play together. If you can somehow set everyone up with throwaway accounts that may be acceptable but you still have the spyware boogeyman issue.
I wish we could just go back to posting a magnet or link to the cracks, but fucking niggers are using magnets to report ips to their respective ISPs to shit on everyone, as well as reporting links to get them shut down asap.
lol insecure detected
>You only look like a fag when you try to get the whole board in on it 
Which is interesting, because I'm not doing that.  Someone asked how a L4D2 game night would work, and I provided an answer.  If a simple statement of fact (L4D2 is Steam-only) offends you so much, you should get your autism reined in.
>l4d is steam only
Replies: >>89597
Is the issue that he wants to use steam or that other anons can't play who don't have it on steam?
Replies: >>89597
>>85812 (OP) 
Very much enjoyed reading this and I hope you post again, OP.
To the best of my knowledge, multiplayer requires Steam.  If someone wants to do what >>89551 suggested and use a Steam emulator, troubleshoot it, and share it with anons, then I'm all for it, but I've never heard of that and have no experience myself.  It'd be great if there was a DRM-free alternative that was easy to use and stable.

Did you mean to reply to >>89567?
I think the underlying issue is that some people are extremely autistic about "personal privacy," which is often used as an excuse to dismiss otherwise promising suggestions and game nights.  It's quite easy to make your Steam profile private and to disconnect it from any other online personas you might have, so using Steam is not more likely to get you doxed unless you're stupid about it.  At that point, the issue is simply a moral one about using Steam at all.
Replies: >>89603
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>Which is interesting, because I'm not doing that.
>immediately proceeds to do exactly that in the FPS thread
And to think I was going to apologize for the misunderstanding.

>It'd be great if there was a DRM-free alternative that was easy to use and stable.
If the emulator can be applied to the server to ignore Steam authentication then it "should" just werk. Previous gamenights have used revemu but I don't know if that works with L4D2. Anon claims he knows a guy who already has a server up, he can beg to have him test revemu. If one of you fags has access to a pirate forum like GGn or you could also ask to be spoonfed there.
>I think the underlying issue is that some people are extremely autistic about "personal privacy," which is often used as an excuse to dismiss otherwise promising suggestions and game nights.
I don't think it's just autism when niggers running similar services have openly declared their intent to seek out imageboard users and ruin their lives. Barebacking anything imageboard related after 2015 is a retarded idea, and it's not just about getting doxed by some bored tranny anymore. And yes, Steam is also gay in general.
Replies: >>89607 >>89608
If I have the time and health tomorrow I'll try looking to getting SSE running for L4D. Is this L4D1 or 2?
post a new thread so it doesn't get lost in the autism
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>>immediately proceeds to do exactly that in the FPS thread
>there's no way more than one person could say things I don't like
I haven't posted in that thread in days, you colossal fucking faggot.  Holy shit, kill yourself.  Do you think this is me?

L4D2.  More maps, more weapons, less wonky stuff like friendly fire being enabled when you're incapacitated.
Replies: >>89612
I have my respect for 1, but 2 includes every campaign from 1 as well its own stuff.
>Instantly gets raped by 500 hunters, 5 chargers, and 2 tanks showing up with a witch crying nearby
>500000 zombies show up after you hit every fucking level trigger
>Stealth is not an option

The 2020 map pack is complete dogshit and the trannies that made it need to kill themselves.
Replies: >>89614
>stealth is not an option
It's not a stealth game, dude.
>2020 map pack
What are you talking about?

By the way, I found some game repacks on, which you'll need sooner or later.  I'll share the links, and make a torrent for the files themselves once I download them.  The links are encoded with base64, just for paranoia's sake.

1fichier - aHR0cHM6Ly8xZmljaGllci5jb20vPzBpdmM4YnYyOXk2N21maG9jcXU4
filecrypt - aHR0cHM6Ly9maWxlY3J5cHQuY2MvQ29udGFpbmVyLzZGOEE5QTYzMUMuaHRtbA==
>What are you talking about?

kill yourself redditor
Replies: >>89651
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I don't know whether you mean that LAST STAND update (if you can call it that) or black4blood but either way I am also as confused.
But yeah I'm up for L4D2 too. I've been hankering to play with a full group again after playing with one person earlier this year.
I forgot to mention that these versions of the game files are for different builds of the game, so they aren't compatible.  I'm working on the filecrypt ones now, and I should hopefully be able to use them tomorrow (the download speed is about 450 KB/s at maximum).
Replies: >>89728
I stopped playing Payday 2 before the cancer really took off but grenades were locked behind a DLC what the fuck
Since you can apparently run custom servers you can probably just revemu the newest version so that both steamfags and piratefags can play on the same server.
I finished downloading the filecrypt versions, but their filetype doesn't make sense (filename.7z.001), and 7zip can't extract it whether it has the .7z, .rar, or .001 filetypes.  I'm downloading the build from 1fichier (slightly earlier in the year, but recent enough to have any relevant balance updates), which is one large file that should take another hour and a half.  Hopefully I can pair that with a Steam emulator and get it working.
Replies: >>89732 >>89750
That means the file has multiple parts and you need to put those parts in the same folder and open the .001 file with 7zip.
Replies: >>89737 >>89750
Huh.  I thought I had done that, but I renamed them to the original filenames and now it's extracting properly.  Thanks.
Replies: >>89742 >>89750
I got everything extracted and configured SSE, which does launch Left 4 Dead 2.  However, as soon as it tries to load into the main menu, the game crashes and says Engine Error: Steam not running.

Obviously this is because I haven't cracked it, but I was under the impression I didn't need to since SSE would fool the game into thinking it was cracked.
>not knowing how to unrar a split .rar
Next kids won't know how to mount .isos or they delete the .cue because they don't know what a 1kb file paied with a .bin is good for.
Replies: >>89751
Just buy games on steam and you will never have to worry about this bullshit filename shit ever again. Buyfags are very smug cunts for this reason, they think theyre better than normal people.
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