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What a nice board!
READ THE RULES https://zzzchan.xyz/v/custompage/rules.html
It's a conspiracy >>>/hikki/


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Emphasis on "tries". In an alternate timeline we never stopped getting good PS1/N64 games because indies replicated the style due to not being able to compete with top notch graphics. That is not the case however as most indie games that try to imitate it can't get it right. I was trying out that PS1 horror demo disc collection and there were a lot of fun demos in it but is annoying how some games willl just slap a filter, do 4:3 and call it PS1 gaem.
Even games that go beyond that usually suffer from bad texture mapping, wrong lighting, etc.
Do you know of any vidya that does it right?
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>>77382 (OP) 
The Spy who Shot me by RetroArmy really nails the feel.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/771810/The_spy_who_shot_me/
Replies: >>77415
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Anything by these madlads
https://puppetcombo.com/
.mp4 unrelated
Replies: >>77430
>>77391
I was about to mention Super Trench Attack, but it was made by the same devs.
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>Guys I really love blood, I've been working on my gamedev for years now just so I can get things right for my Blood-like game.
<Sounds neat. How's the game going to look like?
>Don't worry, I've got this.
I mean the OP said "tries to", I just think Cultic fails miserably at it.
Replies: >>77438 >>77441
>>77382 (OP) 
Puppet combi does it really well actually.
>>77395
I mean they can do it well.
>>77428
It does
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>>77428
Sometimes I wonder if all these nostalgia fags even played games back in 90s.
 Look at the ugly textures and pixelated graphics in this shit, it's supposedly trying to emulate games like Silent Hill. Games back then tried to do the best they could with what they had, there were technical limitations but they compensated with tasteful artistic direction, games like these look just like someone said "Anything goes right? Games looked fucking UGLY back then anyway.
Are there any guides on how to achieve the style of older hardware?
Replies: >>77445
>>77443
I'd imagine that you can start by using older hardware and software to do it
>>77445
That's the correct way to do it, but imagine a modern day dev trying to make an entire game in C and probably some assembly,  which I assume is what was used at the time.
Replies: >>78171
>>77441
Is that a mystery of the druids demake?
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>>77441
The issue is color composition, that looks more like an early DOS adventure game than a PS1 one.
>>77382 (OP) 
I like when textures warp from certain angles due to imperfect rounding. And it isn't just about low-poly, in the PS1 era they tried to cram as much detail in as low a resolution texture as possible, they weren't lazy about it  like most modern "retro" devs are. It seems like PS1 era graphics are the hardest for retro devs to do because PC games from the same era didn't have the texture/model warping quirks. Lets not even get started with how the PS1 sound chip worked, something emulators never seem to get right.
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>>77445 and >>77448 have the correct idea.
The most faithful way to replicate the style of a certain time period is to use the tools from that time period, and this goes for all media not just video games (e.g. film, comics, paintings...etc). Older tools are obviously limited, but that's intentional. Your mission is to push these tools to their limits and create the most technically, visually, and artistically appealing game possible. Modern "shortcuts" may be used but only if they achieve the same results... I've made a couple 3D demos on PC not too long ago and have learned some things about making a "retro" game, which I'll post here in hopes that they may be useful to others. I've divided everything into 3 aspects; technical, visual, and artistic. There are also audio-related aspects which won't be covered here.

>technical aspect
First thing to decide is what technologies you're gonna use to make your game, and since you're now in the shoes of 1990s developers, you're gonna use 1990s technologies. That means no Unity or premade engines, no C# or Python or Java, and no Vulkan or modern DirectX. You're gonna create your own engine in C, specifically C89 aka "ANSI C" which was the only C version available at the time. It was also common practice to mix C with assembly, especially when interfacing with hardware, but you can take a shortcut here and use a premade library like SDL or Allegro, which will let you interface with hardware through a generic C API. Both of these libraries originated in the 1990s but are still updated for modern hardware. When it comes to rendering 3D graphics you can either write your own software renderer (not recommended) or use an API like OpenGL, which brings me to...

>visual aspect
This section, unlike the following one, is focused on how shapes are displayed, rather than what the shapes are. Drawing a 3D object accurately on-screen requires a lot of calculations that depend on things like lighting and camera orientation, so to save time fewer calculations are done to only "approximate" how the 3D object looks. As time went on better and more realistic approximations became the norm, but we're only interested in the old ones, which is why I'm recommending the early OpenGL API. I'm talking about OpenGL version 1.x, released in the 1990s and can still be used today to draw objects the way MS-DOS/N64/PSX* games did. It has features like flat shading, Gouraud shading, linear and no texture interpolations which are all staples of early 3D... When modeling use whatever program you like, as long as you make your objects low-poly, naturally. But do your best to define as many features as possible with the given polygons, exaggerate key features if necessary. Compensate for missing detail with intricate textures and clever coloring. Don't be afraid to use 3D sprites. Always keep track of the number of polygons on-screen at any given time. Set a threshold and never go above it, you're supposed to be emulating ancient hardware. Stay within 320x240 or 640x480 maximum, be absolutely sure that the game is playable at the chosen resolution with all elements clear to the player. If you want to enlarge the game window simply scale what's already rendered on screen into a multiple of your game resolution (1x, 2x, 3x...etc) without filtering for a crisp image.

>artistic aspect
Last but definitely not least is the aesthetic side of things. Having played a lot of 1990s games you should be able to set a clear, defined style for your game. Colors, lighting, level of detail, model design, degree of realism, and many other things contribute to how your game "feels" and how authentic it is compared to actual old games. For example you should never use pastel colors like in many 2010s games, or wash everything in shades of brown like in (usually late) 2000s games, use highly saturated colors instead while exercising the concepts of color theory. Don't dress your characters in modern clothing or give them the CalArts face, use era-appropriate looks instead. Don't put too much detail into your textures or it will become visual noise, but don't put too little either or everything will look flat, find that balance and put emphasis on whatever the player should be focusing on. Don't litter your maps with unnecessary objects and tiny trinkets, that's not only visual noise it's also a gameplay hindrance. And so on...


*PSX differed from other 3D consoles of its time in that it rendered objects in a "jittery" manner, where vertices seem as if they're constantly shaking. This is due to the low numerical precision of the PSX. Emulating this effect is not possible with early OpenGL so you can instead use a software renderer, for example: https://gitlab.com/drummyfish/small3dlib
Replies: >>78178
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>>78171
Saved. Thanks, anon.
I'm planning to do a PS1 looking game when I become a dev, so this helps greatly.
Since you're writing the game in C. Couldn't you port it as PS1 homebrew?
Replies: >>78208
>>78178
>Since you're writing the game in C. Couldn't you port it as PS1 homebrew?
I haven't worked with a PSX so I cannot give you an informed answer. Better to check the online PSX dev resources such as:
http://psx.arthus.net/starting.html
https://www.psxdev.net/
Or inspect existing PSX homebrew games:
https://www.psx-place.com/threads/playstation-1-ps1-homebrew-games.21/

Mind you that SDL/Allegro don't support the PSX, and the PSX doesn't render using OpenGL.
>>77445
Yes and no you'll most likely never manage to even get close to actually being able to push the system to it's limits or even close to that, especially if you use modern toolkits for homebrews, real stuff happens when you can do ASM well and have a good understanding of the hardware.
What you actually want to do is make an (or study enough that you have the ability to make one) emulator for the hardware you're targeting, then you have a more clear understanding of the underlying limitations, but don't let yourself be too burdened by them.
If  you're gonna go ahead and do a PS1 lookalike I'd suggest not really sticking too close to the real thing, 480p with dithering and low precision math + affine texture mapping + per vertex lighting is good enough to get the feeling through, you don't need to try and replicate RoT instead of depth buffer, precise color depth limitation (16bit with dithering for everything is good enough), actual tradeoff when it came to resolution / texture / framerate balance (that said clever use of flat shaded polygons is still a good idea, just don't go the "480p / 60 but everything is flat shaded" route like you had to on the actual thing)
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>>78264
>>77441
Oh and also, if you're gonna do it work your understanding of texturing low res games around how Nintendo DS games did it instead, it's far easier to make higher res texture and control the effect of being displayed at low resolution than actually having to make a good low resolution texture to begin with.
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>>78266
>around how Nintendo DS games did it instead
Got any good resources for that?
Replies: >>78281
>good ps1/n64 games
>low framerates
>generic and unmemorable level design
>load times
This is genuinely just your nostalgia talking. You're incapable of stating in proper terms what made those games 'good'. I can look at them and see them for what they are. I've got standards. You can play Spyro/Crash on Ps1 for all I care, knowing it's objectively inferior to its remake. But I just come out and say that both games are mediocre chore simulators that do not have any creative level design. I am not arguing for the looks of Spyro 1, for sure.  But you can turn down the polygons and increase the contrast on most modern games to compensate. Try it. And learn to critique a game before you condemn a game. Do you hold the same sentiment the same for 2D games?
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>>78274
Not really pretty much just find a way to dump textures and look at how they are vs how they would display
But the main idea is that the textures are bigger so they're easier to work with but they still display at resolution that are very low so you can get your mind around how they would look at those lower res.

You can probably try looking for No$GBAs documentation and debugger for ways to extract textures, probably RHDN or some big name romhacking project could also have ways to do that, MelonDS debugger might have that too.
>>78280
>You're incapable of stating in proper terms what made those games 'good'
Its pretty obviously implied in the OP, its "style". While the framerate and the overall technical showcase nature of the stuff of the time didn't age well; PS1 games tended to have great style.
Something pretty lost to most modern devs; and something the Crash/Spyro remakes fail at, feeling bland and lazy.
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>>78282
It's pretty obvious that both you and OP are generalizing midwits that are incapable of actual critique, using words, facts.
Replies: >>78298
>>78288
>It's pretty obvious that both you and OP are generalizing midwits that are incapable of actual critique, using words, facts.
>This is genuinely just your nostalgia talking.
Don't think you have any ground to stand on here. But no clearly, this thread isn't about art direction; just look at all the posts about anything but it.
But no clearly, the common practice filters and using the literal bottom of the potential quality of the console era its emulating is just so great; i'm sure you can defend it no?
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>>78298
>still giving it attention
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>>78301
I just wanna see if it shifts, i was going to quit after regardless.
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>>77382 (OP) 
I'm wondering, are any of these developers using software from that era? It feels retarded to do lowpoly games on overly processed engines like Unreal when low poly looked like it did because of the own limitations of the system it was made in.
More specifically, are there any direct links to SDKs from those consoles? The original Xbox SDK would have been incredible to have judging by how crips and sharp some games turned out to be like NG Black, in contrast with the ambiance bleeding colors in NG Sigma
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>>78280
What a pleb opinion hidden as a fact check without arguments or examples towards his green text.
>>80833
>never forged.jpeg
Oh, I haven't forgotten. It's still upsetting to this day though pretty funny in retrospect.
>>80833
Im absolutely fucking sick of these faggot games trying to be stuck figures because the devs are talentless hacks on some discord server asset flipping shit and are too busy spamming that fucking ban hammer for an ego trip to explain anything beyond playing dumb
>>77382 (OP) 
>That is not the case however as most indie games that try to imitate it can't get it right.
They can't get it right, because modern developers be they tripple A or indie can't into game mechanics and design. They just copy the art direction and then they copy the same buggy control mechanic they stole from some engine tutorial or learned at the university in a "how to be a game developer" course. It's that bad.

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