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What are some game mechanics that are ubiquitous and expected to be in games even though they make the game worse? Things that people think are good even though they're bad?

Pic related. The only person who has fun in a gunfight involving sniper rifles is the sniper. Everyone else is just dying to mysterious shots coming from who knows where and can't properly respond to it.

A sniper rifle is the bad game design version of a rocket launcher. Both do a lot of damage per shot (potentially OHKO), both have a low fire rate and (relatively) low ammo capacity, but a rocket launcher is balanced by the fact that it flies slowly, is very visible when it's flying, and makes sounds so you can dodge long distance shots, and the smoke trail may let you see where it came from even afterwards.
>>176776 (OP) 
Forgot to specify that this only goes for multiplayer games. Snipers in singleplayer are fine.
>>176776 (OP) 
camping snipers in games with yuge maps are teh worst
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>>176776 (OP) 
Proposition: fast tiny projectile with (subtle?)bdrop velocity combined with either a visible trail behind the bullet or a visible hitscan tracer predicating its movement.
In addition, laser sights and gross lens flares to indicate the sniper's line of sight/position
Replies: >>176787 >>176823
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>laser sights and gross lens flares to indicate the sniper's line of sight/position
Sounds like a good balancing mechanic. Tried to search for pictures of what it could look like and looks like someone else had the same idea. Forced laser sight would let you see them when you're facing away from them too.
I'd only use either or tbh.
If it's a tiny projectile with a visible tracer, already crippling yourself compared to close quarter hitscan weapons.
If its forced laser sights or gross permanently visible lens flares when scoped in, it may lead to too much visual mess, and shit on the stealth sniper fantasy.
Replies: >>176790
>stealth sniper fantasy
Does that belong in a multiplayer game though? I'd argue that it's inherently in conflict with all of these balancing mechanics, and with multiplayer combat that's fun for everyone involved.
Sea of Thieves did lens flare for its sniper rifle, too. It was especially useful in that game because it helped you know someone was probably hostile, and had definitely noticed you.
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Nice bait thread OP, if you think the sniper rifle is bad just wait till you meet this piece of shit.
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>>176776 (OP) 
The map has to be REALLY well designed to have a sniper be fun for both people. It encourages knowing the map so they can't blast your head off. Of course every nu-fps has terribly designed maps and you can go prone anyway so nobody can even suppress you with gunfire even if they see you. Add to that the fact that you can like fucking spin and do a frontflip and hipfire a sniper rifle and it just turns into a garbage weapon.
I hate scripted losses in videogames and it's so common because devs love flipping player expectations for some reason. At its best, it happens when your character has been slaughtering enemies nonstop only to get destroyed by some random NPC with plot armor in a cutscene. At its worst, you are fighting an impossible enemy and burn all your resources only to realize that you were supposed to just spread ass and accept defeat to continue on in the game. 

Making scripted losses to invert player expectations is very dangerous since you are essentially telling the player that they are shit and that things will happen to them that they will have no control over. If you want to do a scripted loss then do it at the very start of the game. The player will get the hint and it thematically goes well with the character not yet being a battle-hardened killing machine.
Long Live the Farsight, Slayer of God.
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>>176776 (OP) 
>The only person who has fun in a gunfight involving sniper rifles is the sniper.
>implying that snipers are fun to play.
Oh boy I sure do love standing as far away from the action as I can and waiting for some gormless asshole to wander into my sightline so I can click on their head, but its a pain in the ass because I'm so far away that his head is just three pixels tall.
Whats that? movement? thinking? nah I'll just camp these doorways instead
>I hate scripted losses in videogames and it's so common because devs love flipping player expectations for some reason.
Your usual hero's journey needs the hero to lose at some point to build up drama and the villain. The problem is that the player is in control in a game, so it needs to be handled very carefully to avoid turning the scene into something that just annoys the player and takes them out of the game. I think the best option is to do it in a cutscene, but carefully so that the player character doesn't feel like he got inflicted with cutscene incompetence and so the player doesn't feel that the game cheated because they think they could've won if it wasn't a cutscene. Unwinnable boss battles are much harder to get right, because the player might waste all their items (or the opposite, where they get a game over because they assumed a hard boss was unbeatable and didn't use items) or find some way to cheese it only to get slapped in the cutscene after.
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>>176776 (OP) 
In the real Star Wars Battlefront game, snipers gave off a bright, lingering laser shot showing the entire map where they're hiding. It was one head shot or two body shots for a kill and the weapon didn't have a very high rate of fire if I remember. I didn't like this aspect at the time because I was a faggot who wanted to hide away and snipe people with no risk but I've come to appreciate it now.
Defeating a difficult boss only for a cutscene to say, "Nice work but you lose anyway" is way worse than a boss that you can't kill. It's a deliberate fuck you to the player as opposed to just wasting your time. Not that the latter is acceptable.

I hate games that rely too much on chance and especially when there's an accuracy stat. There's nothing fun about missing over and over and over again because the game has decided to fuck with you. Strategy games that do this are the worst because it destroys the strategic element and reduces everything to dice rolls. I always hated board games that are centered around dice.
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Defense missions fit this perfectly without any of the downsides you've described. You know you'll get destroyed, the game told you that right at the start, but you still have to survive long enough to "pass" the mission. In the narrative: hero got defeated and must deal with the aftermath, bad guys look strong. In gameplay: you get a fun mission, resources aren't wasted because you can tell how long you have left and beating the mission still feels like an accomplishment.
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>looks like someone else had the same idea
I feel like I've stepped into a parallel universe where Unreal Tournament didn't have a lightning gun like 20 years ago with a loud shot sound and a bright trail that showed exactly where the shooter was.  Are CoD and its imitators your only frame of reference or something?

Even games that have one-hit kill snipers can make them wildly impractical if the average mobility of a player lets him be unpredictable.  Pic related; Titanfall 2 has some really powerful sniper rifles, but almost nobody uses them because the average pilot moves around at mach 7 and titans are mostly immune to small arms fire.
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>>176776 (OP) 
>video game sniper rifles are the problem
>not the whole insanity of Video Game Shotgun Balance

A shotgun's IRL falloff is basically 90 meters. Most video games it can be 50 if you're lucky, but generally is around 30 to 5 meters at it's most-stupid. Granted, sniping with a shotgun is dumb, but it's telling when OG Doom is the gold standard for shotguns when barely fucking anybody actually follows it. Hell, the super shotgun is decent for what it is, but it has a niche and fills it, while the OG shotgun is still relevant as a mid-range head-popper.

Yet so many video games, the shotgun is death up close, an annoyance while mildly-far away, and literally nothing at far range.


Really what's even worse than that?

>Big giant stompy motherfucker hits you full bore with his massive meaty fist.
>it does 30% of your health.
>Big stompy motherfucker grazes you with a roundhouse

or fucking forbid

>Big giant stompy motherfucker hits you full bore with his massive meaty fist
>it does 30% of your health.
>Dinky spider that's barely half your height stabs you with it's claw

Fuck that. Meaty motherfucker should do meaty fucking damage.

I've never been a fan of this either, and prefer these kinds of fights to be "unloseable," where if you beat it, you beat it, and if you don't well then you won't get a game over. Disgaea's schtick of "Oh hey, you beat the unwinnable boss fight? Congradulations! here's your free bad end!" thing is a neat twist on it though.
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>>176776 (OP) 
>a rocket launcher is balanced by the fact that it flies slowly, is very visible when it's flying, and makes sounds so you can dodge long distance shots, and the smoke trail may let you see where it came from even afterwards.
Their blast area are also almost always a joke compared to the real deal. Otherwise they would be even more broken than the snipers. That said, I heard Planetside II had big AoE blasts on infantry's rocket launchers before they got heavily nerfed.
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>not the whole insanity of Video Game Shotgun Balance
Payday 2 shortly after release was perfect. 300ft effective range.
But then they "balanced" shotguns, and the effective range was dropped to roughly 90.

Easy to balance. IRL people tasked with launchers rarely carry much else.
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>>176776 (OP) 
The problem is that with most shooters the only thing that is close to realism is the OPness of the sniper, with nothing else being as OP as in real life.
Mentioned before, things like rocket launcher or shotguns which should be even more overpowered to be realistic with the offset of how much ammunition that can be carried, how many shots can be sent down range, or the underpoweredness of shrapnell and shotgun rounds against basic armor, which are all good balancing options.
But the sniper doesn't have that problem in real life and it gets translated 1to1 into the game by lazy devs.
Not implementing automatic counter-sniper mechanics taken by the game itself but instead it turns into a sniper vs sniper scenario where its to be expected by players to take care of the other sniper.

A real life sniper is fucked when his hiding spot is located but ingame its just the sniper standing up and plopping down a couple of metres away, because theres no artillery, mortars or close air support to anal him.
Payday 2 was top tier at release
Shame it transformed into the shitfest it is today.
Just play Payday 1 and get some of that magic back.
Replies: >>176914
There is the Payday 2 Restoration mod but their shit is on discock
Makes one wonder where the right balance is, give a shotgun it's IRL range and it's OP in most games, nerf its DPS to balance it and people would complain about that. Perhaps realism doesn't need to go that far, consider gun recoil and audio: Fire a single shot from a big enough calibre IRL and you're half deaf and your shoulder is out of joint, yet niggers pop off a full Desert Eagle off and reload sill able to hear, or rat-a-tat-tat a fucking M16 for half an hour and expect to be able to still swing a fire axe with the same arm.
Replies: >>176922 >>176943
>give a shotgun it's IRL range and it's OP in most games
Maybe do less damage depending on how on-center you hit. Combined with low ammo capacity, it's strong but you have to be accurate with every shot.

>realism doesn't need to go that far
As far as I'm concerned realism should have the least priority when designing a game. Fun and fair > realistic.
Replies: >>176923
Fun and fair > realistic
Agreed, though I can see some purists points complaining about gun damages. Hell, melee weapons are worse for that, 2 or 3 hits and some cunt's dead where you can stab someone 20 times and leave them breathing IRL. Getting into the weeds on this ends up with someone making a realistic murder simulator.

Best ones of those are where you're kicking their ass to the point where you're gonna win, or else whittle them down to no health and the the game just goes 'nope' stamps on your dick, repositions the characters in a cut scene and somehow gives them the upper hand. Gr8 writing.

Another retarded variant is the 'player gets knocked out by X' when whatever 'X' is wouldn't knock them out at all in-game, gassed/poisoned (when you've got a mask or resistance), some fag with a cosh hitting you in the back of the head (while you're in full armour) or a punch (when 1000 fucking bullets haven't stopped you).
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>the player might waste all their items (or the opposite, where they get a game over because they assumed a hard boss was unbeatable and didn't use items)
This low quality RPG Maker game does a good job of fixing these issues. Just outright tell the player that it is an unwinnable battle and make the boss slap you for lethal damage on turn one.
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>Titanfall 2 has some really powerful sniper rifles, but almost nobody uses them because the average pilot moves around at mach 7 and titans are mostly immune to small arms fire.
When was the last time you played TF2? You can't get into a single match nowadays without at least 1 tryhard 1-tapping everyone with the Kraber while slingshotting around at light speed. 

Anyway, this whole discussion on "OP" snipers and shotguns just tells me that everybody in this thread plays exclusively shit games.
Replies: >>176935 >>176947
FUCK I am still mad that they opted for Apex instead of Titanfall 3. I hate seeing the fucking tranny character on Steam all the time.

>a single match nowadays without at least 1 tryhard 1-tapping everyone with the Kraber
All the time assuming I can find one without bots. I notice shit gets much more fun once those faggots finally leave. Had that in Turbine the other day.

FUCK TF2 could still be good if they didn't let the interns fucking balance and completely abandoned the game except for cosmetics.
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Your own fault for playing games that don't have respect for the interactive medium and instead try to LARP as movies.
Then it's essentially just a cutscene, though. Arguably worse because you don't get any potentially nice action or dialogue (though certainly easier on the budget). And it doesn't work if the enemy is the villain or someone like that. If the villain is stronger than you, but not so much that he can instakill you, that solution doesn't work. Especially if you're expected to fight him again later on and win. That you got stronger and barely managed to defeat the one that previously defeated you makes sense, but it turns silly if that guy slapped your shit effortlessly and instantly a few hours earlier.
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turbine is a fine map. 

webm related to the thread.
Replies: >>176942 >>176947
Whats up with Alex getting called nigger.
Everything should be OP and slugfest
>>176776 (OP) 
Whenever you see a cutscene, you should be thinking that the creators didn't know how to use the medium of video games to present the information to you. They instead had to resort to just stopping everything and telling you. Cutscenes are the opening crawls and narration of video games.
Replies: >>176945 >>177001
Not all cutscenes are bad you absolute autist
Replies: >>176946 >>176987
This. I don't mind cutscenes as long ad they're short. I think Nier overall did a great job at this.
Replies: >>176987
>When was the last time you played TF2?
A couple of years ago during the height of the pandemic, then recently when Project Northstar launched.
>the kraber is used by a small number of people competently
Thanks for agreeing with me.  Most dicksuckers just use the CAR because it's totally braindead or the Spitfire because it got buffed too much in the final patch.

>i love titanfall 2
>anyway how about this completely unrelated problem i'm having with team fortress 2
Are you schizophrenic?
>turbine is a fine map
Oh, you're retarded.
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Hey TF2 mechanics win once again

>Ctrl+F: RNG
>0 results
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>Are you schizophrenic?
Hey retard, maybe see who I am replying to.
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Cutscenes are always bad, doubleniggers.
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RNG can work but you have to go all out with RNG not sprinkle it here and there.
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>brings up TF2
>reply about it and the issues it has
I am seriously dumbfounded how how retarded someone can be.
Sounds like someone has a bit of the tism.
I honestly thought you where talking about Team Fortress 2 for a second. I haven't played Titanfall 2 in so long and only ran with the EPG that i forgot the weapon names thinking they where some newish sniper rifle Also I completely forgot TF2 ALSO stands for Titanfall and not Team Fortress 2.
Looks like I am also retarded. Who knew?
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>Cutscenes are the opening crawls and narration of video games.
Even worse than you think it is.
The intro cutscene and tutorial phase are the equivalent of opening crawls and movie narration is the long-winded dialogue of walk/drive sequences.


Cutscenes are more like text popping up on screen telling the viewer how much time has passed, instead of giving obvious clues like aged characters or the changing angle of the sun or the date on a piece of newspaper, but all that on steroids.
Now, imagine you watch a movie that advertised with it's "amazing storytelling" but instead it's just constant action scenes interrupted by walls of texts explaining what's happening in the plot. That is video game cutscenes. Regressing to books because the people producing it are lazy fuckwads, just that video games are degenerating to movies, so you got cutscenes.
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>Expecting these chucklefucks not to use it for "balancing" and "challenge"
>>176776 (OP) 
>Literally having problems with snipers like you are a soldier from ww1.
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>also retarded
No, you're the only one.
Tf2:boa is better then the modern tf2. Everyone who thinks it's a good game rn is retarded. Also everyone who thinks that tf2 survived so long thanks to it's characters is  retard who doesn't know anything about the gaming industry. The reason it survived so long is microtransactions. It's the same reason that CSGO is survived so long.
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TF2:boa? What is that?
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Opinion discarded.
Replies: >>177152
A shitty "realistic" version of TF2 that got canned and wouldn't have lasted a year.
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Replies: >>177142 >>177597
"Games can be as stupid as they like, as long as they're fun."
For a serious answer to the OP: Repairing items.

Outside of Roguelikes, there is virtually never an actual point to this except to make found items actually worthless (yet perfectly functional in hands of enemies). It's never anything more than tedium and minor money sink.
Repairing items can be cheaper than going out and buying a brand new weapon though
Replies: >>177271
What did tell you out that it was written by an ESL.
Team Fortress 2: brotherhood of arms
Maybe half-life has the perfect scripted loss? The lights go out, you get jumped, if you don't have foreknowledge it's over before you really know what happened.
Repairing items should be replaced by a good upgrading mechanic, like this: 
>Oh, I found an old, rusty sword.
<Maybe I can pay a blacksmith to "repair" (upgrade) it to a normal sword!
Like you said, repairing items as if they have HP is terrible and annoying.
That's an entirely separate thing from weapon degradation. Weapons degrading only works if the repairs are automatic (such as Way of the Samurai, where it measures how much stress your blade is under and resets if you don't get hit or attack for a while)
Not only does it give more immersion to the world but also makes you use duplicate weapons.
What I hate is degradation in weapons and no way to repair them.
>>176776 (OP) 
ive never had a problem with snipers in games and i dont see how its something but another play that has counters and pros and cons, but i guess ill give some normalfag autist from 1999's opinion the benefit of the doubt
>actual fortnite and reddit pic
lens flares are a forced reddit mechanic. battlefield games around 3 started using it, battlefield series itself being a reddit game.
bf2 was a reddit game. one of the first reddit games. instead of devs just doing their thing making a coherent virtual existence, they started listening to whining  12 year olds and man children complain about shit like 'nade spam' and 'bunny hopping'
back then if you were a manchild, you had a $1800 LCD with 80ms of input lag, and riced computer with highest graphics and bf2 aiming mechanics never worked anyway. and your framerate was 61 (and even then using flawed metrics like mean) OMG SO HIGH. so of course they blame players instead of the terribly poor quality of the game and their systems (never insult a manchild's system, he will defend it until this death). in competent games like quake 3 and ut99, no one gives a fuck about jumping... it makes you easier to hit as youre moving in a predictable trajectory.
so then in bf2 after the fix, you jump one or two times, then you cant jump anymore for 10 seconds. fortnite, being a prime reddit game has the exact same mechanic from the get go. in fact thats a good example of what this thread is about. jump fatigue is just ingrained in everyone's minds after so many generations of reddit games that people just add it into their game from the start now or its in the engine or whatever (fortnite had it at the start or at least the first few months when i played it)
imagine if they added this shit in mario, nobody would play it.
its literally ONLY there to appease retards who claim its for """balance""" reasons, when they have no fucking clue or coherent idea of what a balanced game should be. the only reason the term "balance" is brought up, is when faggots realize they're just complainy dick suckers and need to come up with a new alibi for their bullshit
if you look at the fortnite forum, you will see 99999999 people complain about the latest fad issue, while in reality only around 0.01% of actual players understand basics of how games work like flick aim ride side peek peakers advantage etc. if you actually think they know what balance is, youre fucking retarded
fortnite literally got rid of teamkilling because dildo fucking retards complained about it, while i played like 2000 games of that horse shit and only ever got tked one single time. meanwhile, now when you get in a fight 4 faggots jump on you with no coordination and just spam shoot around a single corner while shooting each other and do 5000000 damage the moment you peak
if you want to detonate a C4 in bf2, you couldnt do it while jumping, because that was a consequence of "fixing" bunny hopping - you cant shoot while youre jumping or nade while your jumping or whatever. an example of straight up gimping your game to fuck to "balance" things (honestly, i never played that game seriously, i only went on to hack or glitch on walls or suicide bomb with C4, the suicide bombing being gimped due to reddit mechanics).
but why is lens flare a reddit mechanic? because its forced bullshit. its like each time someone is trying to snipe you, you get some stupid lens flare, regardless of any position of the sun or whatever. its forced retarded gimmicky shit like in far cry 2 when you get attacked every minute by a buggy with niggers in it. its just cringe. it only exists to "fix" some """balance issue""", while not fitting in with the game at all.
>but reddit didnt exist yet
yes the words reddit and SJW didnt exist back then, but i still called them faggots. they are essentially the same thing, they were even SJWs too as they kicked you if you just typed nigga in chat
>ride side peek
right side peek
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Shut the fuck up NIGGER
Try it in the real world, it's much more fun, for the sniper.
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dude words lmao
>Only decent posts ITT
You have to go back.
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>>176776 (OP) 
Snipers are just the consequence of the usual hitscan principles. Ironically, cartoony nushit has leaned away from hitscan proper even if movement options are generally so limited that it's often cold comfort.
>Being this fucking afraid of having an opinion
Jesus fuck

USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST Stop being a faggot anytime

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Sneed is the most unfunny and overposted meme I think I've ever seen and you should be ashamed for even posting it.
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>Sneed is the most unfunny and overposted meme I think I've ever seen
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Oh god how could I forget that I take it back
You have to go back.
>Mods deleted his entire post just because it contained one string of sneed in the text
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seagull being a fucking retard
Replies: >>177724
Sneed is overused, but I csnt stand pepe, wojack, or some Among Us "joke" like sus or sussy. Anboys me far more.
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>>176776 (OP) 
Objective markers and everything else devs do to try and idiot-proof the player's progress through a game.
>NPC tells me what to do next
>"Objective: do that thing" pops up on screen
>There's a big dot on the map showing where to go
>There's a floating marker on screen at all times showing where to go
>There are no side paths
>The entire game is linear
>When I get there, the player character speaks up to remind me why I'm there
>The thing I'm supposed to interact with is glowing a bright obvious color and ruining the environment artist's hard work
<Streamers still can't figure out what to do
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<"dude just turn it off if you don't like it"
>turn off markers 
>NPCs don't tell you where to go
>there's no way to figure out where to go 
>you literally can't know what to do because the game wasn't designed to work without markers
>I got into a bath with a cute anime girl and promptly beat the shit out of her
God I fucking love that game
I use to know someone that was the exact kind of person that made that sort of shit necessary. They'd skip dialog and cutscenes because "they're boring" if they took more then 10 seconds, bitch they didn't know what to do or what was going on and then want me to explain what to do and what was going on. I always just told them they should have been paying attention.
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>>176776 (OP) 
Thought of another that always narked me but I've never seen anyone mention: 

Animals and creatures being 100% aggro and never backing down or running away, which most would once you'd kicked their ass sufficiently or stabbed/shot them; nope to the death every damn time. There's not many dogs (hell, wolves even) after seeing 4 of it's own get minced with a fuck-huge hammer right in front of it that would relentlessly pursue the protagonist till he turned and knocked it's dick in as well, even if the mutt did have a go it would slink off whimpering or be very wary after getting kicked in the face or gut one time.

That there's barely any cowardly or turnable foes in any genre, even one that was confident in a group but a little scaredy fag on it's own would be innovative. Seeing the odd pansy mob back off from you in Elden Ring was the closest I've seen.
Absolutely nothing of value was lost
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>Full capability through a whole fight. 
How is this prancing dickhead I've been walloping with a Necro-Axe for 5 minutes still leaping in the air and landing crits up my anus when he's got 4HP left? Nigger should be limping, barely able to swing cos one of his arms stopped working, eyeball hanging out, the works, *I* should be fucked up too if he'd tagged me. Only seen a few games with effective injuries and even then barely ever applied to enemies.

Gun use around animals is pretty wide of the mark too, fair enough if you get them in one shot (fire multiple rounds around any IRL animal and see how many stick around) but only hunting sims have skittish/frightened/injured creatures and even in those bears seem to have an unnatural tolerance for multiple rounds, both the noise and damage and stay aggro to death every time. I think a bit of variance in how mobs react to some tooled up lunatic invading their space would be welcome and the same with regards reacting to severity of damage taken, some should bolt and stay gone to make it ring a bit more true.
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But that would require effort, effort that's being spent shoving in more monetization and satanism. Also realism in injuries is called a death spiral and is considered bad because it makes fights anticlimactic. By the end one side is just putting the other out of its misery, and if you win you're crippled and will either die from the injury effects or get gangraped by the next enemy encounter.
Replies: >>177789
That's a real hot take. You ever wonder if your reply is the exact reason why it still gets posted?
Reminds me of my roomate, who is an old school RPG player. He and an old friend decided to play WoW when it first came out. His friend almost immediately dropped it after realizing that you're told almost exactly where to go for quests, and you couldn't remove it (I think). According to him it destroyed any thought process outside of combat, and was almost brainless. My roommate on the other hand loved it, both of which are really old school vidya players. Personally I don't mind it, but I don't care on being told EXACTLY where to go. I also appreciate a quest with no markers if it's fairly decent on giving you details on what you're looking for.
Halo's grunts have a fear meter that goes up depending on whether their commanding elite is alive or not, and what weapons Master Chief is carrying.  It's not broadcast explicitly but shooting a bunch of grunts with a rocket launcher or brute shot will make the survivors more scared than if you had used a regular gun.

>Only seen a few games with effective injuries and even then barely ever applied to enemies
The Banner Saga handled this really well.  Strength and health are the same number, and if it's not high enough to surpass an enemy's armour stat, then all you can do is chip away at the armour.  Because of how the turn economy works, it's often better to chip away at enemies to start, then cripple them for a few turns so all they can do is chip away at you, then finish them off near the end of the game.  The caveat is that if you outnumber your enemies, then each of their units will get more turns depending on how badly you outnumber them, so as their force gets smaller it becomes easier for them to move around a single unit and screw with units of yours that can't defend themselves.
Replies: >>179355
>That there's barely any cowardly or turnable foes in any genre
Payday 2 lets you intimidate a cop if you kill enough of his friends and then melee him a couple times, where he'll surrender and cuff himself. Then someone with the right perks can come in and coerce the cop into fighting for you, although they're pretty ineffective damage-wise but have the ability to bring you back up if you go down close to them.
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Having puzzles in games that are not centered around solving puzzles is a bad practice and nobody seems to realize it. Almost 90% of the puzzles that get put in a non-puzzle game are so braindead simple that they might as well not have put it in there to begin with. Even if the puzzle was well-crafted and actually challenging, its reason for being in the game in the first place is often unjustifiable. What I mean by unjustifiable is that the puzzle itself has no reason to exist in the game other than "we just wanted to put a puzzle somewhere in this game" and that's it. The only time I think a puzzle would ever be justifiable in a non-puzzle game is if the puzzle aimed to teach the player about how to use weapons/tools/physics in a non-intuitive way to defeat your enemies. Other than that, the only reason why you would add puzzles into a non-puzzle game is to pad the fuck out of it. Horror games have always been guilty of this and they are starting to crank it up to retarded levels.
Replies: >>177785 >>177793
What's the solution to your pic? Seems complicated.
Replies: >>177788
I think the solution to the puzzle has to do something with the weird symbols that appear on that white paper. I'm not sure what the x's on that paper represent. Maybe you need to do some algebra to find the solution.
The player should always be able to get back to 100% somehow (whether by medical attention or by replacing injured soldiers with fresh ones), and getting through a fight without injuries should be a worthy goal anyway.

As for putting enemies out of their misery, the NPC behavior should have some way to know when it can't fight anymore, so the game should also know when an NPC is neutralized. In GTA IV, for example, I never had to go around putting cops out of their misery even though many of them weren't completely dead after a fight.
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Replies: >>177796 >>177799
You have to flatten the dough, grab 2 of your keys, and then sift 2 more pounds of flour.
I think you're supposed to ring the bells the amount of times corresponding to the symbol's amount.
Replies: >>177823
Don't listen to this guy, he is just gaslighting you so you can look stupid. Personally I never found the solution and refunded the game. Bit too big brained for me.
>I fucked an amputee girl in ass with lemo flavoured lube
Hey I just finished that route also fuck whatever brit wrote this, freedom for the north
>I hate games that rely too much on chance and especially when there's an accuracy stat.
Dynasty Tactics was like this. Hard mode didn't make the AI play smarter moves it just nerfed the random number generator in their favor.
aand replaced one gimmick with another
TECHNOLOGY reasons aside, there's no point to enemies having a sense of self-preservation or fear of the player.
It would be annoying having to chase them down every time if your goal is kill them, and functionally no different than simply ignoring you once you get far enough away from themselves or their spawn point.
Some kind of area-of-effect skill that terrifies everything around you would be nothing more than a "fuck off" button when you don't want susceptible enemies to bother you.
It might make for an interesting gimmick in a boss fight where you have to keep the minions sufficiently frightened to prevent them from ganging up on you while you fight the boss, but I can't see it as a general gameplay mechanic.
Games where you win battles by routing everything and don't have to go through the nitty gritty of clearing every micronigger are nice though.
I'd say
>like old total war stuff
But in old total war titles you absolutely had to run people down after winning for muh xp.
Replies: >>178472
I was thinking the same thing, if he wants a game with fear and morale mechanics he'd probably be better suited playing strategy games where a rout is something he could trigger and benefit from.
While it doesn't make sense in a pure action game, it makes a lot of sense for a survival game. Wolves and the like should care about their survival just like the player and avoid combat they know they can't win.
Replies: >>179355
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I remembered Grunts about 5 mins after I posted, shame it had to be Gaylo.

It's not finished yet but Hellish Quart does injury pretty well and hopefully will get more sophisticated. Also I'm vaguely recalling an old ass title called Deus where you were dumped on an alien planet and could amputate your own limbs if things got really bad.

Certainly for survival titles but I'd still like to see some element of it in action too, not for tough/insane/possessed/feral enemies or whatever but say if a small group of bog standard low level chancers are trying to whip you and you kill 90% of them handily the remaining 10% should at least change their tactics or have shit their pants by the time you cull them. Seeing virtually every foe run head first into an obvious meat grinder gets old after a few decades.
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>there's no point to enemies having a sense of self-preservation or fear of the player
You're wrong.
Replies: >>181067
It's heartening to see a dev improving this stuff, I'm kinda sick of run and gun games but it's still nice to see.
Automatic transmissions in games with vehicles are an affront against god, if every game incl. Mario Kart only had manual transmission niggerpill would kill himself alongside all game journalists, Blackrock would go bankrupt, Israel would get nuked by Iran and Hitler would return from the grave to teach children how to install TempleOS as part of the regular school curriculum.
Replies: >>184926 >>184939
>Manual transmission without being able to feel the car
decent example
>>176776 (OP) 
I like fighting and playing snipers when it’s like a game of hide-and-seek in a large open-ended map. Snipers suck in chokepoint CoD/CS-style maps where you know where they are, but can’t fight back because you can’t get close enough to them.
>Defeating a difficult boss only for a cutscene to say, "Nice work but you lose anyway" is way worse than a boss that you can't kill
Not if there's some bonus or easter egg for 'defeating' the boss. Second most tolerable is when you have to 'beat' the boss or you get a game over (e.g. Trance Kuja in FFIX).
The actual worst are fights where you waste all your healing and consumable items and get nothing for it (whether you can 'win' or get wiped; just wipe the player party without going into battle). Bonus points if you have to hold out for several turns before letting your health drop to 0 or you get a game over.
>it destroys the strategic element and reduces everything to dice rolls
Just like in real life :^)
Replies: >>187843
I was talking about optional bosses that give you nothing if you win and won't even let you win in the story. When I wrote that, I had in mind the silver haired guy from Sora no Kiseki FC. If you lose, your party is knocked down and he does his speech about whatever it was. If you win, he's initially kneeling while your party comments on how tough a fight that was. Then he pulls some cutscene bullshit that knocks you down and the cutscene proceeds as if you'd lost. As far as I'm aware, there's no difference. Fortunately, he's not too difficult if you have the right status immunities so at least you're not burning heals and cures.

To get back to the topic of the thread, I have another one. I recently found out that there were two Kingdom Rush tower defence sequels I never knew about which reminded me of this. I hate it when heroes or heroic units and powers take over strategy games. You have a perfectly good series and then you pack stuff like that into it like it's fucking dota. The addition of heroes in Frontiers I never liked but now he's gone and retroactively added them to the original game as well because people apparently expect there to be a cool looking hero in every game now. They give off the most eye-rollingly cringy lines too.
To summarise them: The first two games were two of the best flash games on the web. Origins is tolerable but disappointing. Vengeance is utter dogshit. There' apparently a fifth game coming out which isn't even a tower defence game anymore.
>>176776 (OP) 
>What are some game mechanics that are ubiquitous and expected to be in games even though they make the game worse? 
>Things that people think are good even though they're bad?

Online multiplayer
Replies: >>190516
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In what way does online multiplayer make people think they play better than they do?
Replies: >>190706
>>176776 (OP) 
Iron sights. I've haven't enjoyed too many FPS games since this became a thing.
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You'd be able to see the sniper in a 2D game. Another reason 3D a shit. :DDDD
Limited shotgun range.
Replies: >>190627
As gay as it is I almost get why crippled shotgun range exists. If the range was realistic the shotgun would be objectively the best weapon in a typical FPS that isn't an explosive, because the drawbacks that apply to shotguns IRL (low cyclic rate, getting shot by dudes with rifles and bleeding out) don't apply in video games.
Replies: >>190698
Just make a map that isn't a 2x2 square. Missing with a shotgun and having to cycle a round becomes a big problem when you're against someone with a rifle and he's far away. 
Shotguns aren't the best weapon, they're the best close range weapon and it's retarded to make them shit at short range even in games with big maps.
Replies: >>190704
A couple problems with this line of thinking:
>if your player character isn't moving at a "realistic" (slow as shit) pace, every range is close range unless you're a pussy
>if you get shot with a rifle IRL you're likely flat on your ass with either cracked ribs (if your plate carrier did its job) or a smoking hole in you (if it didn't or you're a dumbass going balls deep against riflemen without armor) while in a video game you can eat the ~50 damage and keep going unless you got your head blown off
There are ways around this they tend to be considered anti-fun. It's largely a question of whether you want to make each weapon broken in its own way and let the player complain your game was boring because they used the same gun for the entire game vs. forcing them to use the best gun for the situation and letting the player complain about not being able to use the same gun for the entire game.
All of this has nothing to do with the ultimate reason why shotguns have fuck all range in modern vidya though, that is 100% morons mindlessly copying the Halo shotgun without realizing the Halo shotgun is the human version of the Covenant energy sword and was never supposed to be treated as a ranged weapon.
The OP said:
>Things that people think they are good even though they are bad
Not "Things they make them think they are good even though they are not"
Online multiplayer is something normalfags always ask for, no matter the type of game, and when the devs comply and force online multiplayer where it doesn't belong, the game's core experience suffers because of it.
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