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https://archive.is/715Gx

How did boardgaming and tabletop gaming end up so pozzed? Is there any frontier left for nerd losers to escape?
Replies: >>135
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>>134 (OP) 
The same way vidya did. The same way any other niche hobby or interest does. When it starts, it's a collection of enthusiasts who care deeply about the subject of the hobby. Dice rolling pretend adventure, imaginary battlefields with little plastic guys, whatever it is, the people doing it do it because they enjoy it and care about it. And because the people involved care about it, they work to nurture their hobby and make it grow. Maybe it's the creation of new settings or sourcebooks, or if you're doing something competitive, tournaments. It grows and flourishes and then outsiders take notice. At first, the outsiders mock and belittle those in the hobby because they do not share the interest and do not understand the appeal. The outsiders think the hobbiests are weird - "surely someone must be a loser for enjoying something I do not," the outsiders think. Then, perhaps out of spite that they cannot destroy what they do not care for or because the hobby grows further and they see that it has influence, they decide they'd rather take control of it. "What these hobbiests like is weird and dumb, I can make it so much better. It would be better off with me in control," the outsiders think. But the hobbiest enjoy their hobby and do not want it changed. Any direct attempt to take control will be met with resistance, so the outsiders try a subtle approach. They infiltrate and feign interest. They pretend to want to learn and care about the hobby as much as the people who have been enjoying it all along. And whether out of naivete or good will, many will welcome them with open arms, eager to share the fun they have created. The outsiders then try to weasel their way into having influence, all the while framing what they want as minor changes and tweaks and just being reasonable. Some canny hobbyists will catch on, but any attempt to defend the hobby will be framed as an attack on the outsider by an unreasonable asshole. The hobbyist who resists the rape of his hobby will be framed as an asshole and the outsider will attempt to ostracize them. If the hobbyist is high profile enough, you can surely expect lies and rumors to be spread to make him into an untouchable. Outsiders will bring in more of their friends to destroy the hobby from within. The cycle will repeat until more and more hobbyists who dare question the changes to their hobby are cast out from the thing they enjoy and the outsiders cement themselves into a more secure position of influence.

Eventually you end up with shit like wheelchair accessible dungeons (in which you presumably fight dragons). Because these people despise you. They will exploit your good will or the good will of people like you to destroy everything you enjoy and care about. Because they find it funny.
Replies: >>140
There was a pretty good image for this that would save everyone reading that small wall of text. 
It had a couple of guys playing a game, one of them brings a girl along, then chad steps in because of the easy girl, then seeing chad and girls other people jump in and the hobby is now something else.  It was done with stick figures, maybe six panels.  Someones got to have it saved.
Replies: >>140
I've never played board games or tabletop games, but from my understanding these are almost exclusively social events rather than any form of hardcore gaming. So it makes complete sense that something which is primarily used as an excuse to interact with other humans is going to become inevitably pozzed. Necessitating socializing necessitates being pozzed as only degenerates and retards gravitate towards social "nerd" gatherings. All the non-retards attend more productive social events like hiking groups or sports clubs.

But maybe I'm talking out of my ass, I'm not a filthy normalnigger so I don't have any real world experience with tabletop gaming. Also I just realized I'm on /tg/.
Replies: >>138 >>139
>>137
In other words, the same thing that happened to video games. People using it as an excuse to socialize rather than as a hobby pursuit.
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>>137
>So it makes complete sense that something which is primarily used as an excuse to interact with other humans is going to become inevitably pozzed
Going to disagree strongly on inevitably. The hobby managed to chug on for decades while avoiding outside influence just fine. It wasn't until it became trendy and normalfags started trying to inject themselves into it that the infection began. It could've been prevented if people actually had the awareness and will to stand up to it and put a foot down. Ever notice how the same people who poz the fuck out of everything they touch, be it traditional games, vidya, animu, or whatever always bitch about gatekeeping? Well, the hobby collectively failed to keep the gate and now the barbarians are inside raping and pillaging as they please. That's what happens when the gate isn't kept.
Replies: >>141
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>>136
>>135
Found it.
Replies: >>144 >>148
>>139
>The hobby managed to chug on for decades while avoiding outside influence just fine.
You're ignoring the context that it "chugged on" during the infancy of the internet. I would say with modern internet technological adoption it has become an inevitability. Now anyone can comment on anything and influence it without even needing to have participated to any significant degree. I'm doing it right now.

Obviously I wouldn't say it's an absolute inevitably, just a very likely one. Imageboards are social activities, though those get pozzed regularly so maybe it's not a good counter point. But they technically can avoid being pozzed, it's just a fuckton of work and really hard to coordinate and maintain.
Replies: >>142
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>>141
>You're ignoring the context that it "chugged on" during the infancy of the internet.
Fair, though I'd argue that greater connectivity makes protecting the hobby harder, but not impossible. Given the rest of what you said, I think we're in agreement there.

The solution, as I see it is to cut out the rot and rebuild. For example, D&D and Magic are pozzed to the core. Stop supporting them. Don't buy the products, don't even pirate PDFs of the books. Don't waste any more than the bare minimum of effort in discussing them. If some normalfag brings it up, say it's trash, suggest an alternative, move on. And most importantly, create new, actually good content. Don't go full /pol/ sperg - RHW tier trash is just as cancerous as tribes of orcs living in harmony with humans and celebrating homosexual marriages between the two groups. Make your own systems or settings or games and focus on what actually makes it good. And most importantly, aggressively protect it from anyone trying to inject poz into it. Make the world make sense under its own logic and fuck anyone who tries to apply real world shit to it. If outsiders don't like the rules of the game as you set them down, that doesn't mean they get to change them. If outsiders don't want to play by the rules of the game, they don't get to play the game. Keep the gate, tell the barbarians to fuck off.
Replies: >>143
>>142
>>142
>Don't go full /pol/ sperg - RHW tier trash is just as cancerous as tribes of orcs living in harmony with humans and celebrating homosexual marriages between the two groups.

Wouldn't the /pol/ spergery be fine if the systems, the gameplay itself is good though? 
It seems like it would be much easier to hold the line if those who would otherwise like to cross it were too terrified of being triggered to take a step, and looking at all the fallen hobbies I'd say we need any edge on our opponents we can get.
Replies: >>152
>>140
Thanks dude! You are loved and appreciated.
Replies: >>145
>>144
Don't lie to anon like that
Replies: >>146
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>>145
Its not a lie. You're just attributing the compliment to you as a whole and not just to the anon that charitably found the picture.
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Some good points have been brought up in this short thread. I have to say it just amazes me how something as simple as tossing cubes on a board is still unable to escape the grasp of current year outrage culture.
I mean it's quite incredible if you think about it. It has not the market share of video games or movies, so destroying it hardly helps their agenda. They go after tabletop gaming completely transparent in their intentions, to wrench a hobby away from the white people who enjoy it, without consequence. In fact it's those that speak against this behavior that get blacklisted from having their games published and completely written off by every online community centered around it.
I see swathes of people online talking about how people need to stop publishing games that don't meet a diversity quota, that white creators should be treated as lesser because their games are the most prolific. The irony never dawns on them that in their never-ending quest for inclusiveness they are doing everything in their power to exclude a majority of the current tabletop demographic.

Maybe some part of me is still incredibly naive to be surprised after all I have seen. It's just beyond words to see the fervor put in to shame members of a niche hobby for no other reason than to deny them something they like.
Replies: >>150 >>152
>>140

My interest in tabletop gaming has taken a dramatic shift toward Old School Renaissance games that are still somewhat niche. It looks like that is where the old guard of the hobby have moved to. Hell, I have a gaming buddy who's dad has been playing his own home-brew AD&D campaign for over 30 years now. He is happy with what he made and never saw a reason to leave AD&D behind. 

I didn't get into D&D until gamergate happened. I saw the writing on the wall and resigned myself to the fact that it was time to find a new hobby. I had hoped that picking up such an old hobby with a very consistent negative 'nerd' label, I would be safe. Oh how wrong I was. By the time I picked up 5th edition to get started it was way too late. It was as if the pozzed horde had known gamers would seek refuge here. I've always been very selective about the gaming groups I've been a part of and can say with certainty that you have to hand pick the group you want and be extremely firm about not letting outsiders in for any reason. My current group are all old guard players that grew up playing AD&D and rejected the pozzed ideas pushed on the hobby.
Replies: >>152
>>147
>I mean it's quite incredible if you think about it. It has not the market share of video games or movies, so destroying it hardly helps their agenda.

Shallow conjecture but maybe because it has prestige/authority?  I think for example of melee, a game not many people actually play, but because of its status as the real smash hindered nintendos later revisions from being taken seriously.  The melee players don't like this game for reasons, it must be pretty lame and I don't want to look like a fake gamer so I wont like it ether.

What if traditional games work similarly with the dnd/fantasy genre as a whole.  Pozzed tg will never gain legitimacy from its desired casuals if it doesn't have the hardcore players involved or at least what casuals think hardcore players are.
Replies: >>152
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>>143
Shit anon, I don't know. How much of Pantyfa Garbage Can Smashing Adventures would you play if the gameplay itself was good? /pol/ would still come out ahead part because they can actually have a sense of humor and part because they have enough will to not compromise on whatever creative vision they came up with, but you still don't want real world political spergery shitting up your game no matter who it comes from. There's a line - taking some setting appropriate real-world influence is fine and can make the world or setting feel more vivid and alive, but you have to be aware of where that line is and avoid it.

>>147
>They go after tabletop gaming completely transparent in their intentions, to wrench a hobby away from the white people who enjoy it, without consequence. In fact it's those that speak against this behavior that get blacklisted from having their games published and completely written off by every online community centered around it.
>I see swathes of people online talking about how people need to stop publishing games that don't meet a diversity quota, that white creators should be treated as lesser because their games are the most prolific. The irony never dawns on them that in their never-ending quest for inclusiveness they are doing everything in their power to exclude a majority of the current tabletop demographic.
It's about power. Everything is about power with them. And if you enjoy something outside of their sphere of influence, they take it as a direct attack against them. And because you have the audacity to resist their control over your hobby, they despise you. They hate you, they want everything you enjoy to be destroyed and they find it funny.

>>150
Why should we care what outsiders assign prestige to? You can do what D&D did during the Satanic Panic and scrub all mention of demons or devils from your game to appease a bunch of authoritarian outsiders who hate you and will never look at you or your hobby with anything less of disgust, or you can do what Warhammer did and put a demon on the front cover of the fucking book just to spite them (for the sake of example, let's ignore what current year Games Workshop has become). This is our hobby. Outsiders and casuals can only take it if we give it up. D&D is pozzed? Make your own role-play system and world(s). Magic is pozzed? Make your own card game. Think about what you love, think about what parts are good and think about what parts are shit. Steal everything good that isn't nailed down, fix everything that's shit, throw in your own ideas and put your own creative twist on it. Even if it's just your own small group who enjoys it like >>148 gave in his example, they can never take it from you.
Replies: >>153
>>152
What comic are all these quotes from?
Replies: >>154
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>>153
Not a comicfag, but here's the sauce. Apparently it's from Angela Queen of Hel, issue #4, released January 2016

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