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 Dress to impress!


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So I went to church for Christmas Eve. I expected caroling and joyful community.
Now I'm not a churchgoer myself, as should be obvious. However, what I experienced shocked me.

Firstly, the congregation was absolutely old. I was half as old as the next youngest guy and most of the parishioners were far older, in their 60s and 80s. I was going to say that this is no one's fault, but it turns out there is a reason for this. Instead of caroling and being joyous on Christmas, the day of the birth of their own god, the "carols" were mostly the boring regular church hymns with only a few real carols. The sermon lasted so long because the pastor spent like 30 minutes lecturing people on materialism and Jesus. And it was a serious lecture, not jolly at all. So we ended up singing only Silent Night (one of the most boring ones imo) Hark the Angels Sing (good) and Joy to the World (good)

Now you're thinking, 
>Yeah, that's pretty weak but it must've been nice to all stand and sing outside together
WRONG! No one left their seats! We were given candles and I figured we'd be caroling with them. But instead, we lit them once, sang Joy to the World (sitting in our seats), and then everyone blew them out with palpable confusion when the pastor said so. And then they collected the candles for use next year!!

At the end of the service, I asked why we didn't sing the awesome carols like God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen and the decan or whatever it's called (a woman btw) said she didn't know if it was even in the hymnal (it was btw, I checked).

Huge disappointment and missed opportunity. Look, to all the many pastors I'm sure browse /b/: Christianity is a dying religion because it doesn't make any sense and isn't enjoyable to be part of. You can't solve the doctrinal issues but you can make it fun. Spare us your whinging lectures. No one cares or listens to your hot air about materialism. We get it. If you want people to actually attend church, make it fun to be here. That doesn't mean get a smart screen TV and play Christian rock, that means having ritual. I'm here for ritual rooted in community to try to scrape some meaning out of our decaying society. Millions of young men crave some form of communal connection with people in our area. 

I'm an atheist and I could run a far more engaging and full church than this one without any of the mega-cringe shit that boomers seem to think attracts young men. No one likes Christian rock and no one goes to church for giant TV screens. We want ritual rooted in community. That's why those young men who do become religious LARP as Greek Orthodox & Catholic with Nick Fuentez even though their grandparents going back 15 generations were Protestants.
Anyone who reads the Bible too hard loses faith. Only the forced children and the dying get scared into going to church. Go to a Protestant church next time.
it's why its hard. because the christian churches don't have anymore young people, so the birthrates will plummet even further, I wish I could replace shit porn with an actual wife, however. I think I might be incel forever with how things are going and with my childhood real experiences. Merry Christmas, wish you best to your church
Replies: >>230308
>>230271
I wish I could share effective advice with you and everyone here.
All I can say is that if you can drag yourself out of porn, you'll be better for it. But you already know that.
I've been to a few churches in my life and the nice looking ones were full of geezers and the only ones with datable girls were evangelical-levels of crazy with girls who clearly were either married or unstable sluts. There was this one time that there was an evangelical church which had this woman speak. She was all fire and brimstone and seemed really into it. She was married to a man who, though pretty nuts himself religious wise, was otherwise a decent man. He joined the army and she immediately bedded down a different man, who was his friend btw, and divorce-raped him while he was still deployed. Funny thing is that the man she left him for was a Catholic and she immediately converted to Catholicism. This is funny because I remember talking to her, an Evangelical, about Catholicism and she said it was of the devil.

What a fucking bitch. Mindless creature of lust.
I am not even exaggerating her qualities. She even tried to convert me to Evangelicism when I had experienced a soul-crushing loss. Perhaps she meant well but it seemed predatory then and now. That's actually why I attended her church, because she and her then husband invited me.

That said, if you want to try your luck with women at a church, go find an ugly modern evangelical one in a city. The kind of building that looks like a warehouse. BTW, my old-folks home church is beautiful. Actually ornate stained glass windows, a real steeple with a bell, hundred year old pews, an altar that looks like it's from a Cathedral with crosses and draped in white-gold cloth. Too bad it's empty. Such a waste.
Actual clownworld.

Not to be creepy, but another bit of advice I could offer is to find some kind of job that's attached to a university and also to something collage girls would do. So something tangential to ballet, dance theater, maybe some kind of feel good environmentalist thing (girls love that). One of the problems in today's society is that due to the destruction of local, especially rural, communities, there are almost no places besides bars where men and women can gather. And bar women are the lowest form of trash. I guess work but workplace dating seems like a bad idea.

Honestly, and I am speaking directly to you as a man who feels the same scorching outrage you do: If the society which the regime, the jews, the elites have forced upon you is absolute shit and prevents you from attaining a meaningful life or even a meaningful relationship, you should treat the pyramid as your enemy. Chisel away at the foundations of this evil edifice however you can, make that your quest. And a man with a quest becomes desirable to women because it gives you a purpose, it removes the distractions that make you weak. And ironically, once a man is driven by the steel determination of a quest of vengeance, the need to receive positive attention from women no longer dominates your mind. Which only makes women desire you more, if you encounter them.
Replies: >>230355
>>230194 (OP) 
It's not their fault, dummy. Feminism killed religion. You think single males are going to show up to church? The "find a church wife" thing is fake.
>>230308
Evangelists are one of the worst sects ever created by that heresy called reformation. So annoying. And for some reason they are zionist and worship israel. 
Other thing i dislike about heretic protestants is how all their churches are ugly as fuck, like, just a box with a cross in the wall, with that modern/minimalist look and without all the cool ornaments that catholic churches have. But maybe is just because they're new, i don't know if old churches are good.
I have never seen young people go to church, the last time i have seen someone  younger than 60 going to the church was when i had 9 and went to go the communion.
>>230355
They also act like kikes, too. Something about being envious of them and piggybacking off their doomsday prophecy. I have Evangelists for extended family and I've only ever seen them a few times in my life (guess our part of the family are black sheep even though we have our shit together and they don't). They came snooping around both my maternal grandparents at the end of their lives to grovel for money, though, like they could smell blood in the water. I hope they die in misery and I hope whatever is waiting for them on the other side (if anything) is pure pain.
>>230355
>all the cool ornaments that catholic churches have.
You see? Ritual and ornamentation are what young men crave. 
I have frequented 3 evangelical churches in my life. The first was the one the predatory adultress attended. They literally spoke in tongues. It was like a super cringe rock concert on acid. And that bitch who betrayed her husband was among their leaders.
It was a warehouse with a cross in front. Lots of dysfunctional youths attended. AFAIK, none stayed. There were no pews so people could stand and speak in tongues. It was actually insane in there.

The second was a smaller one with a big TV in the place where the pastor lectured. The sermons were sometimes interrupted by ham fisted videos on the scripture reading in question. It may as well have been Veggie Tales for all the effect it had. The vibe of the room was like a doctor's office with doctor office carpet and doctor office walls and doctor office chairs. I didn't go there long as it was boring as hell. 

The third was another giant one, this one had movie-theater style seats and was repulsively diverse. Not necessarily in clientele, but the pastor who would constantly veer off into tangents about niggers or Arabs he converted. Some would waddle on stage as proof of his unholy acts. I am genuinely confused how these uncharismatic buffoons end up converting anyone. I half suspect it's all lies. Very cheap fake stained glass windows. It was like an movie theater LARPing as a church for a day so they bought the cheapest windows they could find. Still better than the doctor-office church.
religiosity is genetic, Christianity and the west broadly doesn't have a population that could give the energy and thought necessary to congregate and worship proper
Besides, we just got over the ascension of the death cult of liberalism
Ive had this idea to make or find a denomination that is the most adaptive possible but i can't even the evoled monkeys to acknowledge that they are evolved to be religious and would be religious if under enough stress
Replies: >>230423
>>230422
get the evolved monkeys*
>>230355
>papist thinks the houses of god have to be garish and flashy to have value
As expected from someone willing to defend the richest banking family in Italy jewing ordinary people through the church and calling it "salvation"
Replies: >>230528
>>230426
Your own house shouldn't be fancier than the Temple of God. The Temple is meant to represent Paradise. Simple as.
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>>230355
>>230528
Pic related is the man you take your life guidance from. I'd rather listen to the people telling me to read the damn book myself
>>230563
Anon, you replied to the wrong people.
Catholicism isn't Christianity.
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>>230563
To be fair, if you read the damn book yourself, then you would find nothing wrong with the pope washing the feet of disciples. But on the other hand, the feet kissing feels like an attempt at one-upping God. Because not even Jesus did that. I also suppose the pope didn't teach the disciples to do for each other what he did for them. But he rather gave the service away as a display of gibs.
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>>230194 (OP) 
Well, as you yourself are a clear example of, Anon, you can't make anyone do anything (except by force, that clearly not freewill). If young men choose to ignore this great salvation offer, that's really on them. I'm not suggesting that the Christians not make any efforts to be winsome in their evangelism -- they should, clearly -- but AFAICT, most so-called "skeptics" are simply too heathen to even care at this stage, much-preferring Tik-Tok, Tinder, Grindr, et al.

That's really on them, and not the 'boring' old folks. At the Great White Throne judgement, I predict this will become perfectly clear. The naysayers will all be thrown into the lake of fire that burns forever, while at least some percentage of the codgers will be clothed in White, and live youthfully for all Eternity.
>tl;dr
Believe, or don't believe Anon. The choice (and the reward/outcome) is all on you. God has 'already' done everything necessary to save all humanity.
>Christianity is a dying religion because it doesn't make any sense and isn't enjoyable to be part of
Hard disagreement. Genesis Chapter 1 alone has fourteen different, scientifically-testable, historical claims about the nature of our universe -- and it gets them all right, and in the right order!! [1]


'---'
1.  https://reasons.org
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>>230563
The pope is a footfaggot?!?!?!?!? That's it, I'm converting to Islam.
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>>230563
pseudo intellectual teenage edgelord doesnt know that catholicism and christianity are not the same
many such cases
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>>230567
>>230568
Its not, its Mary worship and buying your way into Heaven thru old-money approved trinkets

>>230572
From the frying pan and into the fire kek

>>230584
>pseudo intellectual teenage edgelord
So you have no argument and are just calling me a poo poo head? Concession accepted. Go to confessional and cry about it, papist lmao
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>>230590
that quote isn't telling him to be a cuck
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>>230590
>mudslimes.jpg
This somehow makes baby from eraserhead seem reasonable, almost normal even.
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>>230569
>Genesis Chapter 1 alone has fourteen different, scientifically-testable, historical claims about the nature of our universe
LMAO.
You people encapsulate the sin of arrogance. You think you're the first and only person to say something like this. Buddy, I've grown up with Christians plus I am curious by nature. You're not even the 100th person to make that claim and it is always false.
I'm not going to bother picking through this confusingly designed site much, but one of the claims is 
>hey... guess what? You know how the big bang says that the universe beGAN??
<uh... yeah?
>well guess what?
<...
>The Bible says it began too!!!!!
<...okay?
>This is scientific proof that the bible is true and accurate :DDDD
Not even kidding, this is the actual argument on the site.
No offense, but I assume you don't even get it and I won't waste time talking to a man with closed eyes and plugged ears, but everyone else sees how stupid this line of reasoning is. I suspect you even know it is stupid yourself or you'd be trying to shock us with this line of reasoning.

See, this is what I really despise about Christians. You're so full of arrogance. You come here, thinking that you're the very first person to ever regurgitate bad arguments at me. Yet you won't even bother typing them out because you're embarrassed by how bad they are. The fact that you're too ashamed to share them proves that you know they're false, yet you regurgitate them through a proxy. 
In otherwords, you're intentionally trying to lie because you think I am an absolute idiot. 
If you genuinely believed that your religion was true, why would you need to lie?

You see this over and over from Christians. They actually will lie about their religion and hide truth to push it. You wouldn't lie about something you thought was true. So you yourself know that Christianity is a lie. There are thousands of examples that verify that Christians don't even believe in their own religion, but my favorite one is how they desperately try to avoid death. If they genuinely believed that death was the greatest thing that can ever happen because you go to heaven, they'd be dying to die. Yet they're as desperate for life as an atheist is, if not moreso.
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>>230604
See, Muslims get it. Whinging lectures are boring. Nasheed is cool. 

At least, that's my opinion. My view of Nasheed is "that thing terrorists use as background music to scenes of terrible violence" which is what I grew up with in the ISIS era. I'm no friend of Islam but I respect strength and Nasheeds sound strong, even when they're really just whinging Muslims. 
Yes, if you're going to lecture people about Jesus, put it in a haunting song (but not Christian rock or rap)
Carols are nice.
>>230595
don't you have a goat to be raping faggot?

>>230601
some real horrorshows in that image. That one-eyed big head baby monster...
>>230592
Thing is christians often attribute the failure of the middle east to religion rather than race, it's all a republicuck/liberal psyop. They want to bomb muslim browns, while allowing hordes of christian browns.

>>230603
>here are thousands of examples that verify that Christians don't even believe in their own religion
>Yet they're as desperate for life as an atheist is, if not moreso.
You are correct in your analysis, but I believe that you underestimate the effect of race has on the retardation of the average christian. It is less that they are christian and moreso that they are not White.
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>>230616
Not that anon, but it's true. White christians are not so retarded as brown ones. But the problem is that you have retards like michael e jones that go around sperging about how christianity would make brown shitholes well, shitholes no more. Anyone who has dealt with brown subhumans knows that the only solution is to kill them all.
Replies: >>230662 >>231998
>>230645
That because whites are more of a manifestation of what Christianity does to your population, the nigger christians literally don't have the evolutionary history to be good christians  and really don't have the capacity to build or maintain a civilization that is based in christianity
>>230616
Race/culture/nationality is almost always more important to people than religion. That's why nation-states are built around ethnic distinctions rather than religion. The Holy Roman Empire was cool but despite both Italians and Germans being Catholic, they broke apart at the earliest opportunity. And despite their religious differences, Protestants and Catholics united through shared ethnic heritage.

For some weird reason, people feel ashamed of expressing their inner thoughts regarding ethnic loyalties. It's not just a modern phenomenon. Usually, they like to hide their "base" desires behind a smokescreen of religion or ideology. Yet as one studies history, you eventually start to notice how these ideological struggles always fall along ethnic lines.
Didn't think this thread could get stupider but it keeps going
Replies: >>230950
>>230194 (OP) 
that's even not the worst experience. because they play gospel music at some churches. it doesn't fit a church service (but they can play it after it, if they want to).
>>230603
>You're not even the 100th person to make that claim and it is always false.
Well, let's unpack that a bit, shall we?

The Bible's positions in this first chapter: [1]
"The frame of reference in Genesis 1:1 is the cosmos, all of physical reality. God declares that he brought into existence the entire universe—matter, energy, and all the associated space-time dimensions. Einstein’s theory of general relativity tells us that the cause of the universe acts independently (i.e., from outside) of matter, energy, and the space-time dimensions along which matter and energy are distributed to bring it into existence. Observations now securely establish the reliability of general relativity.

Genesis 1:2 explicitly shifts the frame of reference, the narrator’s vantage point, to the surface of Earth, above the waters but below the clouds. This verse describes the initial conditions of primordial Earth: dark on its surface, covered with water, empty of life, and unfit for life. With the frame of reference and the initial conditions for the six creation days thus established, a straightforward chronology of creation events unfolds:

Planet Earth is singled out for a sequence of divine interventions. At its beginning, Earth is empty of life and unfit for life, and light cannot penetrate its thick atmosphere.
As interplanetary debris cleared and early life began to transform Earth’s atmosphere, light from the heavenly bodies could penetrate to the surface.
As water vapor formed in the troposphere, a stable water cycle formed.
Continental landmasses arose and ocean basins took shape.
Plants began to grow on the continental landmasses.
The atmosphere transitioned from translucent to occasionally transparent so that the Sun, Moon, planets, and stars could be seen from the vantage point of Earth’s surface.
Swarms of small sea animals filled the oceans.
Sea mammals and birds were created and became abundant.
Three specialized kinds of animals came onto the scene: short-legged land mammals, long-legged, easy-to-tame land mammals, and long-legged, difficult-to-tame land mammals—all three appropriate in specific ways to help meet humanity’s needs.
Human beings appeared."

Notice any similarities to science's claims, Anon?

>You're so full of arrogance.
Hmm. Possibly so. I'll need to correct that. I might also point out there's some not so far away who seem to have the same issue.  :D

>I'm not going to bother picking through this confusingly designed site much, but one of the claims is 
Sorry if the site is confusing. I'll break it down to just some highlights then, maybe? [1] There are literally hundreds of others.

Regardless, keep seeking the truth. If you don't close off your perspectives, you'll run straight into it! Cheers, Anon.  :)

'---'
1.  https://reasons.org/explore/publications/articles/summary-of-reasons-to-believes-testable-creation-model-1
Replies: >>231024
>>230707
stupider is not a word
>>230927
>The bible says various thing which, when viewed through specific interpretations, sound similar to the way scientists describe the creation of the earth.
Yeah but the sticking point is how there's a jewish god who is weirdly obsessed with the way penis looks. That's not very realistic.
And why would he design man to have foreskin if he wants us to slice it off? Actual jewish schizofrenia. 

In terms of arrogance, I do not generally make claims about the origin of life. And if I do, I am quick to admit that I do not know for certain and will change my views if new evidence is presented. Can you say the same? I doubt it.

In every example I have seen, Christians did not come to conclude that the Bible was accurate based on objective analysis of information. Instead, you started with the conclusion that your faith just so happens to be the only true one and then work backwards to force evidence to comply with this assertion. That is a very high degree of arrogance.

But the worst manifestation of arrogance is how Christians all disagree on the nature of God. Each individual Christian claims to worship a god who just so happens to align perfectly with their own ego and morality. If you happen to support abortion, God does too. If you hate it, so does God. If you vote Republican, God would have done the same. If you're a Democrat, so is God. 

If Yahweh were real and actually speaking to Christians, there would be no such disagreement. You'd simply ask: Hey God, are you pro-or anti environmental protection? and get an answer.
Instead, you are asking yourselves what "God" wants. In other words, you worship your own ego and declare that that is God.
THAT is the supreme arrogance.

Also arrogant is how you pray for things like God is your personal genie. If God is OMNISCIENT, then he already knows what you need and what you don't AND he knows whether you will get it or not before you were even born. So demanding God perform tricks for you is such a supreme arrogance that it disgusts me. Prayer is the most blasphemous act you can do. Worse, Christians almost universally pray publicly for attention. Thus turning an already blasphemous act that treats God as your slave into nothing more than an attention seeking act that glorifies the self. 

Am I prideful? I do not deny it. I have pride in my own intellect as well as my heritage. But my most prideful moments pale in comparison to Christians who pray to themselves for material wealth. Then they pompously proclaim that they are holier than those of us who do not arrogantly make assertions about the nature of the universe because they confuse their ego with God.
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>>231024
And don't get me started on the cop out "Oh I only pray that thine will be done" arrogance.
Why would you pray for that? If God is omniscient AND omnipotent, his will will literally always be done. It is impossible for it not to be. So all you're doing is begging for attention. Worse, again, Christians absolutely always have to do this in public. So you're not even trying to get God's attention, you're trying to get your neighbor's attention. It's nothing but virtue signaling. Blasphemous attention whoring.

This doesn't even touch upon the fact that in 99% of cases, Christians don't even believe in God. If they did, they would not be so obsessed with glorifying themselves by pretending to worship God. Nor would they be afraid of anything whatsoever, any more than you are afraid of respawning in a videogame.

If you are shot at, only two things would go through the mind of a true believer:
1. God will protect me if he will it, so I have no need to fear or flee.
or
2. God wills that I die. This is great because heaven is my ultimate goal anyway. 
(the above also means that life is meaningless but I will ignore this)

Instead, Christians (save for a tiny sliver of a minority) go through life utterly devoted to staying alive. Clearly they do not believe in heaven any more than an atheist does. Muslims too. If Allah really existed, why would ISIS members duck and cower from mere bullets? Either Allah will protect you or you'll get 72 virgins for dying. Anyone who fears death is not a believer in afterlife.

And do not even get me started on how idiotic it is to proclaim that Jesus sacrificed anything for us. You spending a dollar for a soda is not a sacrifice. And spending 3 days in Hell to become a god is not a sacrifice either. What did Jesus actually lose? Nothing. Hell, you spending a dollar for a soda is a greater sacrifice than Jesus ever paid since you will never get that dollar back. Odin sacrifices his eye for knowledge and he never gets his eye back. What did Jesus sacrifice? a weekend? Time is infinite for him so that is like you having infinite money and spending 3 bucks for a chocolate bar.

Literally every single thing about Christianity utterly comes apart when given the tiniest critical scrutiny.
You will never be able to fix it because the foundational philosophy of Christianity is rotten. But... you can make it enjoyable all the same by cloaking its inadequacies in ritual. 

Speaking of which... isn't it funny how literally every single aspect of Christmas that people enjoy doesn't come from Christianity? It's pagan. 
Christmas caroling came from Wassailing, a pagan fertility rite
Christmas trees, obviously pagan. No evergreen worship in the Bible. You even hang offerings in the form of ornaments to the spirit of the tree.
"Deck the halls with boughs of holly", again not found in the Bible. That's from Saxon paganism.
Santa Clause and everything about him except for the name comes from a mix of Germanic and Norse paganism plus the Wild Hunt.
Even children leaving offerings in the form of cookies and receiving gifts comes from the Wild Hunt. 
Even the date isn't Christian.
Replies: >>231415
>>231024
Preying is meditative, and personally i think God is trying to help evolve us into something that can cope with the crushing weight of the universe, that is where the odd shit comes from, we could not see the outcomes it would have for us
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>>231042
I do not begrudge a meditative prayer. What I do take issue with is the fact that most prayers treat God as your personal genie. Or worse, it asks for something to happen that, according to the Bible, there is a 100% chance of happening. 

A more humble prayer though technically still meaningless because pre-determinism is a core element of Christian doctrine IF you accept that God is omniscient, but this is beside the point would be something like
>I pray that I live and act as a Christian should
or something.

This is a much better and more humble prayer as it isn't imposing upon God but challenging yourself to live according to God's principles. I almost never hear Christians making this prayer.
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>>231105
Also preying for forgivenes is one also, being guilty helps one be humble
treating God with respect and submission
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>>231114
I agree, that is also an unselfish prayer.
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>>231116
It is due to people been selected to be psychopathic / narcissistic for too long
It is like how most of this time read paradise lost and think the devil is the underdog fighting for freedom
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>>231121
Most people read paradise*
>>231121
To read Paradise Lost and not feel for Satan at all you have to already be indoctrinated into Christianity. The aforementioned devil is written sympathetically despite the fact that they have several moments of being pointlessly spiteful or cruel. They are their fathers child, as we all are.
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>>231124
Satan made his bed, now he can sleep in it.
>>231124
No, if you go up against an omnipotence and think you can win i think you are stupid, and God isn't like going against oppressive leader, you are going against existence itself.
Also whites have been under the selection of Christianity for long enough to develop dispositions to need Christianity in order to be in their evolutionary match, and those dispositions get exaggerated in times of dysgenics, big one is the need to feel guilt about something, it was our nature is to kill God's son, now it is about doing and feeling what is in your biological interests.
Christianity is not my preferred but it is fused into whites at this point
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>>231232
No it isn't, fuck you.
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>>231234
Lol
It doesn't mean whites can't evolve to another religion, it will just take a bunch of pain and suffering
I agree that Christianity is bad at the later stages of civilization
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>>230194 (OP) 
>church is only there to make me feel happy
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>>231241
All it takes is one generation.
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>>231244
disagree with that
1000s of years of harsh selection undone by telling them stuff
Nah
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>>231245
The truth is powerful.
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>>231250
Not for a population that doesn't value sanctity
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>>231251
I'm not following you.
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>>231243
Yeah. It's a business. And because this pastor sucks, the congregation is dying.
>>231253
The truth is pure, to value it, you must value purity 1st
The population alive now don't have the genetics nor the incentive to do so
Anything that doesn't play into thier nihilistic hedonism decadence won't be considered, doesn't matter how true it is
This population is very like a rotting corpse, and until the rotting blossoms into new life, the truth don't mean shit
>>230194 (OP) 
What, do you think the churches are for you? You get down and worship the Holy Nigger in silence, and your funds go to Jamal in Africa's Nike sneaker fund.
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It is like need for change isn't there now, there is enough food, there is so and so good porn that even those not at a genetic disposed are voyeurs, rich enough to afford women's rights, until recently anyway. Like the iron has to be hot
tbh your "message" would probably get out more if you had an ai chat bot gf, that does not tolerate the cuck
Replies: >>231383
YHVH is just another "heathen" polytheistic god, a tutelary deity of the Canaanites. His true form is that of a serpent, as he was the god of a serpent cult in his original conception, and he is cognate with Set and Typhon. YHVH, in his quest to conquer the world, has appropriated many other cults over thousands of years. This began with El, and it can be seen clearly today in Catholicism, the deity's greatest stronghold, which includes functions and imagery from the old Roman cults to Jupiter, Sol Invictus, Bacchus, Mithra, and even Isis through the veneration of Mary. Islam, too, as it is ultimately descendant from the consolidation of multiple pagan arabic tribes. But he still remains the god of the Canaanites and their descendants, that is, the jews, arabs, and other semitic types, and he despises other peoples with a fiery, wicked hatred, particularly those of European descent.

Jesus was a jew wizard, a sorcerer, who was propped up as a folk hero by the same jews and their disciples who were in that era carrying out the consolidation of judaism under the banner of monotheism. They used his following as a poison to erode away at the strength of the Roman empire. Eventually, Jesus' following would complete what was essentially a hostile corporate takeover in slow motion, consuming and wearing the corpses of the most popular cults of the day in the Mediterranean world. After fusing with the Roman political machine, YHVH went after the rest of Europe.

The All, the Source, the Monad, the I Am That I Am, the thing that we are told God is supposed to be, is not YHVH. It has nothing to do with any form of christinaity, judaism, islam, or any other abrahamic perversion.

>source: it was revealed to me in a dream
Replies: >>231281 >>231300
>>231280
Jesus is a mutation that humanity needs to overcome sin
Replies: >>231282
>>231281
>sin
Is a scam, the classic "inventing a problem so they can sell you a solution". The state of sin is fundamental, something all of humanity is born with, due to Adam and Eve's disobeying god in the garden of Eden, isn't that a common theme of all christian theology? You are essentially being told that being born and just existing and being human is a metaphysical crime and offense to the glorious Father Lord, and there is nothing anyone can do to ever correct that damage, except to accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, who he birthed through a miracle and then slaughtered like an animal in a bizarre kapparot ritual in order to allow humanity the chance of being absolved of this metaphysical crime that they had no control over committing. In order to correctly accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour, you have to go to church, and follow the church's teaching, and be a good little sheep, don't ask questions, just believe, and you will be saved of your sins... And if you don't, the loving Almighty God who is made of pure goodness and love will throw you in a lake of fire and torment you for all eternity for being such an ugly sinner. Which is, once again, according to christian theology, the natural state of humanity without christ and something no one has any control over.

There's a case to be made that hell is just a metaphor for our distance from god, which I get. But then that begs the question: Why am I letting these shitheads tell me what god is to me? My own experiences with the canaanite serpent haven't been stellar and my gut tells me the theology is just gussied-up Orwellian bullshit. But the people telling me that I can't trust my own heart and gut and need to go to church are crypto-satanists and generally awful people who only care about swelling their own ranks or forcing their obese egos onto everyone around them, they don't give two damns or a fuck about getting closer with God (and probably don't even believe in anything deep down).

It all sounds so utterly sociopathic. Complete jewish nonsense. I don't want any part of it.
Replies: >>231284 >>231301
>>231282
The thing about Christianity is that it has been relatively open to interpretation, you can take what you want and leave what you don't, the ones that left the things that selected for ethnocentrism, prosocial behavior and intelligence are not genetically represented among whites today, it promotes war between ethnic groups, and pre industrial war is eugenics, it is a good thing under a harsh ecology, that why i don't hate it.
Jesus was to change man to be to able bear or overcome sin
Sin is being limited, being vulnerable, missing the point God put us here for, worshipping Him, civilization under God is our means of doing that, bug our physiology isn't up to it, a sin itself and it is due to sin. the Eden story is perfect in the explanation as to man's start and why life is suffering, our ancestors ate citrus rich fruit allowing them to have been selected to have physiology that needs an external source of vitamin C to not fail, scurvy. This isn't limited to our homeostasis, our minds and morals are tainted by process too, and will culminate in our extinction, if we don't take the lessons from Jesus and continue on, waiting for the mutation to show up again or expediting the process depending on how much of a pussy you are
Many have asked, "Why is Christianity anti-White?" But a question that is rarely explored is, "Why is Christianity beloved by shitskins?" I believe that it's because it allows them to deny reality.
See, the central thesis of Christianity is that reality is a lie. Your culture, your people, even nearly all your actions, all lies. The only truth is YHVH and your submission to him.
You might argue that the "sin" exists, but they're just as easily swept away and forgotten as the action itself. A man can be virtuous for his whole life and still must account for the "sin" of existing. It's all about submission no matter how you slice it.
This line of thinking is favorable for the criminal and the mediocre. None of the things that great people have done matter. It's all lies, and those people are worse than worms crawling around in dirt unless they SUBMIT. Do you see yet how this is good for the shitskin?
It's the perfect way for them to dismiss everything wrong with their life.
They've never built a boat and sailed the seven seas? Boats are lies, the sea is lies.
Did they catch a parasitic infection drinking from the local well while the guys in Europe are literally bathing in their sterile water? It's lies, it's all lies.
It's simply the best way for them to deny and dismiss every single shitty aspect about their lives. Whitey's success don't matter, because the book says that it doesn't even exist.
Replies: >>231314 >>231400
>>231280
I heard that the true God is Goden.
>>231282
> the classic "inventing a problem so they can sell you a solution".
This is wisdom.
>>231292
>This line of thinking is favorable for the criminal and the mediocre
This line of thinking is favored by everyone.
We all want a daddy that will save us from the world, we want him to unbeatable with Infinite strength, and intelligence
You aren't going to get anywhere without that concept in your religion, humans aren't things that want to face the world alone and become a civilization of the individual or some shit
And shit skins' lives are shit due thier genes not having been under the selection to for decent useful people that will build for the future.
Also shit skins love Christianity is the same reason they are happiest ethnic group due having psychology for r type life history and the times are easy for now
Replies: >>231392
>>231024
>>The bible says various thing which, when viewed through specific interpretations, sound similar to the way scientists describe the creation of the earth.
Well, a) please stop putting words into my mouth, and b) these texts were written literally thousands of years before there ever was such thing as ((( modern ))) science (or even just good, honest, natural-philosophy science). Insofar as any authority comes from first-mention, the former certainly trumps the latter.

One great example of this is the 'stretching out of the heavens' concept mentioned several times in scripture. Today, we know that so-called Dark Energy is -- by far -- the most highly-tuned phenomenon in all the universe. It is singularly responsible for the so-called (more-modern version of) Cosmological Constant that does, indeed, stretch out the very fabric of space-time. [1][2]

>>231271
>tbh your "message" would probably get out more if you had an ai chat bot gf, that does not tolerate the cuck
Good point. We're actually working towards that exact goal tbh. Cheers, Anon.  :)

'---'
1.  https://reasons.org/?s=stretching+out+of+the+heavens
2.  https://reasons.org/explore/publications/connections/cosmic-cool-down-what-does-it-mean
Replies: >>231687
>>231314
The reasons Atheists reject God and believe that nothing could explode to become everything, and that a single cell could accidentally mutate into a whale (and all other organic life) is because they don't want there to be a hell, they don't want anyone else to be in charge of their life, that's scary. So they like the cuddly idea of no God. Rather than the harsh reality of Christ. Rather than the harsh reality of a judge who says you're going to pay for your love of evil, unless you give up your sinful pleasure you will regret it. And not a single person would have a reason to follow and die for Jesus unless they had seen His power. And they did in miracles and in resurrection.
Just look at the OP of this thread. He's complaining that the church was "a serious lecture, not jolly at all." That says it all doesn't it.
Of course everyone wants to be their own master of the universe where they can do whatever they want in a creation they did not create. Yet while atheists used to believe the universe always existed, we know the universe had a beginning and when that was discovered atheism was meant to end. However it didn't end, because some people are intellectually dishonest. If the universe was created that points to a cause and to something outside the universe that can create.

It's funny, I'll tell you honestly, as born again christians who have seen and known their Saviour, when atheists and things talk all this madeup stuff about "what is the benefit of Christianity: trying so hard to sound like smart philosophers with smoking pipes. In some ways I too genuinely questioned God's existence before Jesus came to me. So I can somewhat believe Atheists that they genuinely feel what they say. But even on that level, you need to have an actual argument against christianity. To this day, STILL, atheists have no argument. Because there is no explanation of the first century without the fact that God raised Jesus from the dead. OR else explain the 30+ documents from various christians and churches in the first century, how this all came to be. Go with Celsus' "it was demon powers" or go with Nietzsche who had a terrible argument to be frank about how the disciples deceived themselves.

To the person who made this thread. No one is surprised you didn't have a "good time at church" church is the gathering of believers in Jesus Christ. You are not one. So why on earth would you ever go? To learn about Jesus? apparently not. For prayer and aid to walk with God closer? based on your post I would say no.
Replies: >>231688
Jesus is either a mad man (in which case no one should follow him) or what He said is true. Jesus cannot be a "good moral teacher" unless he's the Son of God. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynyl0hCUIcs

Make up your mind on Jesus because He's not going anywhere just like He said. The disciples should have cast Him away after He died and never resurrected like He said and therefore fulfilled nothing as a false messiah. But He did raise from the dead and began the eternal heavenly kingdom.
Justin Martyr gave a description of church service in the second century:
"And the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people assent, saying Amen."

He's of course not the first to describe a church service, but he gives a very orderly detailed look more than any before.
Christians gathered in one place, whatever place that was, sometimes it was a cave in the country side to avoid persecution. As we have one such cave with a cross and inscription "where two or three are gathered I am in the midst" dated to the second century. These people loved the Lord Jesus Christ in an insane pagan world of various nonsense gods. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cH6BJDxQjAU
>>231292
Trannies are only possible in their existent numbers because of the Christian Thesis.
There's been some talk in this thread about how people "need" a god. And while I'm sure that they're only saying it to justify the apparent necessity of their religion, I think that there's a layer of truth to it.
When you're taught that reality is a lie, you're left asking, "what is truth?"
Christianity's answer is, "The truth is YHVH."
When the religion failed to carry on in the new generations, the people were left with Western civilization. They still lived in a culture that believes that reality is a lie. But there was no defined truth. They were left with "The truth is [BLANK]".
There's a lot of labels given to the current societal phenomena. Atheism, hedonism, nihilism... but I think that it's more of a semi-religious solipsism. Or rather, the Christian Thesis directed inwards. You are the only truth in a reality of lies, you are the divine truth, you are the divine being. "The truth is You."
It would explain a lot. The immense egoism, the feelings over facts - what's numbers and data against the divine truth?
And, of course, trannies. A man believes he is a woman. In his eyes, how could he be wrong? He looks in the mirror and sees a man, but the mirror is lies. He is the divine truth. There is nothing but himself and what he feels.
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>>231400
that is funny, because there is no self, no you, no them
just physics
>>231037
Jesus never became a god. Goes to show how much you (don't) understand about what it is you're saying.
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Another thing Justin Martyr describes is the giving of resources to the poor in the church. And this is still held.

My church family met at the Pastor’s home for christmas (on the sunday before christmas), I did not because I had to work. And I am alone in this city I have no family or friends. So on New Years, just earlier today we met again, and to my surprise I was given a whole bunch of christmas gift boxes. I was surprised. But they said they had felt bad for me and gave me so many gifts. And money. As I am definitely the poorest in the church. And I’ve been in another church in another far away province where I was given lots of money just randomly from a church member. Very kind. They help me much and I do my help that I can.
But like I said I was invited to this New Years’ gathering today, and why would I go at all? I didn’t expect any gifts and really I tend not to like other people’s food. But I went because I have such a strong desire always to be with the church.
In my life nothing had been more disgusting to me than the idea of being in a church. Especially since my family is Jehovah’s Witnesses and when I was very young I remember having to wear itchy terrible uptight clothes and hear a speaker go on about nonsense that seemed to have nothing to do with me or reality. And so is the case for a number of people in the Roman Catholic or Mormon or even Baptist churches (not that there’s something wrong with them, aside from Mormons) It reminds me a lot of the Pilgrim’s Regress by C.S. Lewis which people should for sure read: “If you do anything wrong the Landlord of the world will put you in a pit of spiders and lobsters! He is such a kind and loving person!” It’s really a good book just like most of C.S. Lewis who wrote a lot for the sake of Atheists and taking their view seriously and trying to explain Christ to them.

My desire to be with the church comes from the holy Spirit alone, the day when I realised that it’s all true. And this truth, I want to be around other people who know that truth. When you realise the truth of the entire universe it's quite startling, especially for people who don't grow up with such sure knowledge. I immediately quit myself and went off into the actual wilderness for a month until I came to join the church. And anyone else can see for themselves if they cared, not that I ever really cared though either, God calls and it's up to people to respond, when Jesus is spoken of and there comes many but not always times when Jesus of Nazareth passes by.
>>231415
>Jesus never became a god
That's pretty heretical of you. Almost Arian. 
In any case, that's not what most Christians believe. They don't word it the way I do, but the meaning is the same. They simultaneously think that Jesus is seated at the right hand of God, while also insisting that he is God. Again, very, very stupid religion.
Replies: >>231997 >>232036
>>231383
> these texts were written literally thousands of years before there ever was such thing as (((  modern  ))) science
Yeah but if they were divinely inspired by an omniscient god who could see into the future, they wouldn't need heavy interpretation to fit in with modern science. 
>One great example of this is the 'stretching out of the heavens' concept mentioned several times in scripture
>The bible is talking about Dark Matter
Ugh, I highly doubt that.
>>231392
> they don't want there to be a hell
But you do want there to be a hell and, coincidentally, the religion you just happened to believe in just so happens to believe in hell.
Sounds like you just like the idea of torturing people who disagreed with you online. 

Not exactly the hallmark of a mature individual.
Replies: >>231799
>>231688
>you do want there to be a hell
No one wants there to be a hell. Aside from Atheists ironically. And people like Donald Trump who recently told some people to "go to hell" on Twitter or whatever.

No Christian tells people to go to hell. Atheists do all the time, and in fact we have PROOF. Because as I've already said, on this board and other places I am constantly told about how I am going to hell and people wish I'd go to hell, atheists. I want everyone to go to heaven. Who on earth wants there to be a hell, this is such a stupid argument and you know it's stupid and ridiculous. Oh, that's why I WASTE my time with you people who never listen because I want you to go to hell. No, I wish there wasn't a hell so I wouldn't have to be concerned with any people who don't listen to basic logic science or reason or history.
Replies: >>232058
Billy Graham, said "I wish there wasn't a hell, but there is."
Matt Powell, "Who wants to believe in a religion that has Hell?"
We believe Christianity because it's true. And We did cannot invent our own truth.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0u13B1kEJ4w

As Leonard Ravenhill points out, Christians are the ones who believe in Hell the least. Every one in all history has known about hell, the difference with Jesus is not hell it's heaven. Jesus offers an alternative to hell which no one else does. Because they have nothing to save you from your damnation. In Egypt, in Greece and Rome and Asia and America everyone assumed you went to hell. You didn't go live with Zeus or whoever in heaven or Paradise. You went to the underworld, even if you were a king. Because humans weren't so arrogant. They would go to the land of the dead for their sins and get whatever they deserved.
>>231686
They are not Christians. The nonsense they believe has no bearing on the validity of Christianity, much like how an incompetent physics professor does not make gravity any less real. 

The scriptures say that Jesus grew in wisdom, something that should not be possible if he was "fully God" since God cannot become smarter. Yet, trinitarians and other false Christians swear up and down that Jesus is God. The prevalence of these fools is where people like you come from (I mean no disrespect when I say this); their idiocy is the first thing people see and hear about in discussions about Christianity, giving an incorrect impression on what it is. The contradictions and doctrinal holes pile up with even a small bit of scrutiny, leaving potential believers with bad tastes in their mouths potentially forever. I pray you turn things around some day, but not out of blind fear or anything like that.
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>>230645
It is in the interest of us Whites to point out the middle-eastern/semetic core of christianity, I always find it funny how christian denounce muslims when both follow the old testament/torah.


<He said he came to fulfill the entire Jewish Old Testament (Matt. 5:17), which he referred to as “the Law and the Prophets” (Matt. 5:17; Luke 24:26–27). And he told the Jews, “You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life.
<The Tawrat (Arabic: تَّوْرَاة‎, romanized: Tawrāh), also romanized as Tawrah or Taurat, is the Arabic-language name for the Torah within its context as an Islamic holy book believed by Muslims to have been given by God to the prophets and messengers amongst the Children of Israel.

Christians will never beat the semetic/jewish allegations.
>>231686
The idea of a "triple deity" exists in just about every Indo-European myth. It's another element plagiarized from heathen faiths that has no place in a monotheistic religion.
Replies: >>232051
>>232036
It isn't plagiarized. There is only one absolute truth which is reflected in Christianity, but we witness the echoes of its inversion in the other religions created by the fallen angels.
Replies: >>232057
>>232051
Indo-European religion far pre-dates jewish religion. Given that the jews copied various other people's myths, this one must also have been copied.
Replies: >>232061
>>231997
>They are not Christians.
If that's true, then Christianity is one of the tiniest religions on earth. "Everyone who doesn't agree with me isn't a real Christian" type claims inevitably lead one to conclude that the other Christian argument based on popularity is false.
In other words, you cannot claim both that everyone else is not a real Christian AND also claim that Christianity is a popular religion.

>The scriptures say that Jesus grew in wisdom, something that should not be possible if he was "fully God" since God cannot become smarter.
I agree but this means that Christianity isn't a monotheist religion. Or, if it is, that Jesus is not God or even a God.

>I pray you turn things around some day
Well, treating God as your personal genie aside, do you also believe that God is not omniscient?
Because, if God intervenes in my free will by controlling my mind because he obeyed your wish-prayer, this not only destroys the other Christian narrative about free will, but also implies that God isn't omniscient since an omniscient deity would already know whether I became your version of Christian or not. The obvious implication is that free will is an illusion.

>>231799
>No one wants there to be a hell
You obviously do. 
Why else would you subscribe to a version of Christianity with Hell? Hell isn't mentioned in the Bible, nor is it described as a place with lava where you go if you don't obey priests. 

>I want you to go to heaven, that is why I am preaching to you
Okay. That's nice of you. But hang on a minute, if you don't want people to go to Hell, you're opposing your own god. That makes you a Satan. Is this not correct?
Articulate why Hell is bad. I would say because mindlessly torturing people for eternity is childish and pathetic. Either kill them or don't. The torture teaches no one anything (and is an obvious literary ploy to manipulate people into agreeing with you: "Do what I say or... uh... or you'll get tortured... but only after you die...") It's pure manipulation.

But if YOU oppose the idea of your "merciful" god mercilessly torturing people for infinite years, until they forget their own names, until they forget all religion, until they forget why they're even there, until the pain becomes normal, then you yourself are now opposing your own god's choices. Hell, if it did exist, would be wholly the fault of its creator. 
Who created Hell? Who designed it?
If Yahweh didn't, someone else did and if someone else can create a dimension, there is more than one god.
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>>232057
Except that religion has been present since Adam and Eve, who were not Jewish.
Replies: >>232068 >>232069
>>232061
You mean Ask and Embla.
>>232061
Worshiping Yahweh is jewish. Did they worship Yahweh? If so, they were jews.

Actually, not to counter-argue myself, but Yahweh isn't mentioned in the Bible until much later. The original deity of the jews was El or El Elyon. Back in the Bronze Age, the jews were almost certainly polytheists. Only later did several different distinct deities such as Yahweh (a war god) and El Elyon become merged into a single deity. 
Jewish power does not derive from their religion, it derives from their ethnocentrism. Were this not so, jews would accept converts as equal members and would not assist atheistic jews like Karl Marx or Larry Page.

The point of this tangent is to say that TECHNICALLY Adam and Eve, if they ever existed at all, would have been polytheistic proto jews. Their pantheon of gods probably included El Elyon, Baal, and Ashera. So, in a weird way, your statement is correct. Adam was a polytheist, not a modern jew.
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>>232069
I can see how it can seem confusing to a materialist.
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>>232071
What you would like is for me to uncritically just believe everything you say, even when it contradicts other things you say.
Christianity, for some reason, just nerfs people's minds. It's like smoking weed. You think you're so wise but everyone not smoking weed realizes you're not saying anything insightful. And if you ever break free and think back to this conversation, you'll really hate who you were now.
>>232069
 Show me where there are two different Gods in the Bible or in any Rabbinic literature? Making things up because you want to believe them doesn't change what we actually have for evidence.
The Bible says God created the Heaven's and the earth. The Bible says God is the only God. Those are the facts. There are no other. Of course the Israelites worshipped other gods all the time (sometimes it was just a false interpretation of God), that's also in the Bible, they worshipped false idols. But the one and true and only God is the only one mentioned as being a real God.
Isn't it strange that your idea doesn't exist ANYWHERE in the Bible or in any ancient Jewish text? But people should believe what you a random modern person has to say against what the actual documents and traditions and archaeology has say?

You're trying to say that God and God are two different Gods. "But God uses different names." Yes all the time. He has no name. Yahweh/Jehovah (if that's how it's even pronounced) means "He who is" in the third masculine of a particular stem.  And when God first introduces that name He goes out of His way to say this,

And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them. (Exodus 6) 

When Moses asked God His name, he did so because all gods have names, but God tells him he has no name. I AM WHO I AM. Tell them "I AM" has sent you which becomes YHVH (Yod He Vuv He) basically without getting technical and boring. That's why Justin Martyr in the second century said anyone who believes God has a name is an idiot. A name in ancient time was not just a random sound that referred to someone like in modern English, everyone had names that were essentially words, they encompassed who they were and God's name is that HE IS, and HE IS THE GOD WHO IS WITH US.
And YHVH appears as early as Genesis 2, and the idea that there's two different gods in Genesis it's just ridiculous and why should anyone believe your random spin off religion which is clearly against the basic reading of scripture and understanding. It's so strange how we read ancient documents to find out what a people were and believed. But for the Jews apparently what they themselves wrote at the time of their own events isn't sufficient it's all lies? And we have to make up something new from nothing.

"The Jews acknowledge one god only, of whom they have a purely spiritual conception. They think it impious to make images of gods in human shape out of perishable materials. Their god is almighty and inimitable, without beginning and without end. They therefore set up no statues in their temples, nor even in their cities, refusing this homage both to their own kings and to the Roman emperor." -Tacitus (1st century)

Jews followed the one and only God, as a few others also did such as China and some other natives and in general even polytheist considering polytheism is not the belief in multiple gods, it's the belief in God split into multiple gods as ancient writers clearly imply and as a modern Hindu would tell you, I've talked to them and seen video of Hindu priests admit this because deep down we all know there is only one creator as Athenagoras makes a perfect argument for but I won't carry on.
>>232082
>citing the bible as evidence that the bible is accurate
lol
and verily, verily i say unto you: lmao
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>>232082
And if anyone is wondering why he's talking about El Elyon, that literally means in Hebrew the Supreme God. Just like El Shaddai means God Almighty. But most often he's referred to as Yod He Vuv He, or just YAH! like Hallelujah which means "Praise Yah" Hebrew Y becomes a J in English. HE IS WHO HE IS. The pronunciation of the name is lost due to the fact the Hebrews refused to use the Divine Name and instead would say Adonai which means Lord and this practice was done at least as early as the 2nd century BC when the Greek version of the Bible was written it changed YHVH to "KYPIOM" which means Lord in Greek.

>>232085
>Jews believed what I say they believed, not what they explicitly say in their ancient text.
I'm not trying to "totally own you" and "crush you in debate" I'm just saying, think about what you're saying, it's really ridiculous.
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And I'm just coming from Church and my Pastor said this today. God came to Abraham not with rules, not with the ten commandments, but with a promise.

Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee: and I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: and I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed. (Genesis 12)

God only wants obedience so that we can walk in those promises. After Israel came into being they were extremely unfaithful, but God is faithful, even to this day Israel remains, where's Babylon?. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojhJIG3JolI

God saved us by a promise. When the Spirit of God came to me it was by promise. And it's not about me, but Him. God saves by a promise.

This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? (Galatians 3)

And that's all. I obviously don't want to spent any time of this satanic board.
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>>232086
Not even the jews believe their own ancient texts.
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>>232082
Alright. The Bible is extremely inconsistent in how it calls "God" early on. It starts out calling him El Elyon and only later switches to Yahweh. During this time, repeated references are made about other gods. Yahweh is only referred to as the greatest of the gods, not the sole god until Isiah 2 (the author).
>we actually have for evidence.
lol. Evidence of what? You & I both know that evidence is not your (Christian) strong suit.

>The Bible says God created the Heaven's and the earth.
Yeah but fiction says a lot of things.
>the Israelites worshipped other gods all the time
Which they would not have done if they genuinely believed that Yahweh was the only god. Early Israelites were pagans.
>(Yahweh) is the only one mentioned as being a real God.
False. He is first mentioned as the greatest of gods and greater than other gods. That's polytheism. If the early jews denied the existence of other gods, they would not have written that Yahweh (not El Elyon) is "the greatest of all gods"
That accepts the existence of other gods. Also, the Egyptians literally called upon their gods and they performed the same magic that Moses did.
This is very well attested by archaeologists as well.

>Isn't it strange that your idea doesn't exist ANYWHERE in the Bible
Except that the Bible is the source of this analysis. 
Speaking of Abraham, the interactions between El Shaddai and Abraham mirror similar ancient myths about anthropomorphic gods.
On a side note, why does God have body hair? What could he possibly need body hair for? He's not a monkey. Why would he have a penis if not to fuck his wife Asherah?
And is God circumcised? Is he? Who circumcised him?

>all gods have names
Damn. Way to bolster my own argument. Yahweh is just another god among many. That's why he has a name, just like Odin, Zeus, and Shiva. 
Yahweh's story is no more interesting than any other god. His "evidence" is a book written by mortals. What a cheap, uninteresting thing. EVERY religion has this shit.

>Tacitus said
Yes, but Tacitus lived in the 1st century. The jews had become monotheist way before then. During the early iron age.
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>>232089
I cannot stop myself from critiquing your religion using your own religion's logic. It's my nature...

>God only wants obedience
Does he? Then why does he rely on multiple levels of intermediaries to get it? A Christian demands that I obey his will and claims to himself be obeying the will of some priest who claims to be obeying the will of a book (which he interprets to justify whatever the fuck he is doing on a day to day and often contradictory basis) which was written by some guys 2000 years ago who claimed to have some kind of "inspiration"
If God wants obedience, he would just tell me, you, anyone directly.
He does not, so either he's fake or doesn't give a shit about obedience.
>>232100
>During this time, repeated references are made about other gods, Yahweh is only referred to as the greatest of the gods, not the sole god until Isiah 2 (the author).

Well I'll stop reading there. And if anyone ACTUALLY wants to read the Bible, go ahead, or you can just pretend to read it.
Replies: >>232106
Also. I want everyone EVERYONE to look at this: >>232100
">all gods have names
Damn. Way to bolster my own argument. Yahweh is just another god among many. That's why he has a name, just like Odin, Zeus, and Shiva."

And then read my actual post here: >>232082.

You may never see a more disingenuous post outside this one >>232100 and it's always the same with these "list of greentext 4chan style reply" people. It's as if they have learned to lie and that's what they think a conversation is. Honestly, I'm being serious when I say, this is shocking and may be the worst I've ever seen. And I wonder if this person is so out of his mind that he doesn't even notice it or what.
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>>232104
Unfathomably Based
>>232103
Ah, the butt was hurt.
Christians claim to believe in stuff, but the moment someone critiques their bullshit with logic, suddenly they flee to the hills and gracelessly, disingenuously exit.

>>232104
>LOOK AT ME!!! LOOK HOW I AM TOTALLY BTFO'D BUT I WILL PRETEND THAT I WASN'T!!!!!!!
But you obviously were and I never behaved as disingenuously as you are doing right now.
I answered all your arrogant bullshit and this broke you like a twig.
Please, do read my post. It breaks down Christianity as effortlessly as anything else.
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As an aside, I really would like someone to explain whether God is circumcised. 
These little questions break the arrogant ones, but they interest me.
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>>232106
your post smell like gay
>>232108
Jesus was circumcised
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>>232058
>you cannot claim both that everyone else is not a real Christian AND also claim that Christianity is a popular religion
Whoever you are talking about couldn't, yes. I never claimed either of those things, just that a lot of "Christians" are such in name only. A couple of things in the attached picture are inaccurate but it should still give you an idea of what I'm talking about.

>but this means that Christianity isn't a monotheist religion
It is. There is only one God and Jesus is not him. He is the son of God. The disciples, apostles, and even the Jews and Romans who crucified him knew as much. It is trinitarians and religious fanatics who cannot grasp this concept and thus lead a lot of people astray.

>if God intervenes in my free will
That's not what I was getting at in my post. I'm praying that you someday come to the realization that a lot of the stuff you think you know about Christianity is wrong. I even said at the end of my post that I do not want you to convert out of blind fear or coercion. If you don't want to be a Christian then there's nothing I or anyone else can do about it, even the scriptures say as much. Believing in God is completely up to you and your free will.
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>>232113
I believe that we earlier established that Jesus =/= God. >>231415 Also, see below your post.

>>232118
>a lot of "Christians" are such in name only.
I agree with you but must point out that this nullifies a common Christian talking point where they claim that since there are allegedly 2 billion Christians or something, the rules of popularity contest dictate that it must be the one true religion. 
Furthermore, I was under the impression that Catholics viewed Jesus as God. But I've never been a Catholic so I am less certain of their beliefs. I also kind of don't have much beef with Catholics. It's Protestants that piss me off as they tend to be 10 times more arrogant than Catholics.
This thread is like a breeding ground for retardation, it'd be fascinating if it wasn't so mind-bogglingly tedious and unseemly.
>>232108
no, he is not circumcized. He asked Abraham to  circumcized to make a covenant. Although, Jesus was circumcized.
But God has no form. He is not man. He can be anything and all creatures that  are living at once.
 Actually, interestingly Asherah was a motherly counterpart of Yawheh and was in mythology his "Wife", but this idea quickly was thrown out because women didnt deserve that shit probably.
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>>232113
Jesus didn't have a penis
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>>232206
Luke 2:21
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>>232188
>God has no form.
Then why is he literally always portrayed as a bearded man by Christians?
Also, why does the Bible describe him as a man?

I have given a lot of thought to female gods. imo, women should not be in power over men and should not become school teachers and should not work in the same fields as men. There are many biological and psychological reasons why females are not fit for these roles.
However, we live in the real world and women are going to believe what their society wants them to believe. 
So, does the presence of goddesses in a religion lead to mortal women desiring power & a 9-5 office job with a mixed workplace?

The knee jerk conclusion is yes. After all, Athena has power over mortal men. But then again, there was no feminism in ancient Athens and they literally based their society around a female goddess. Meanwhile, Christianity purged itself of goddesses and Protestantism even did away with the defacto paganism of venerating Mary.
Yet the MOST feminist societies are Protestant ones. Athens was so based that not only were women comfortable in neurotypical female roles, but women were not even permitted to buy and sell things in markets. 
This is something that even medieval Christian societies tolerated.

We can go on and on. Pagan Rome NEVER had a female ruler in any capacity. Yet half their pantheon were female. Yet Christian Europe is absolutely filled with female rulers. What the fuck is going on?

I have concluded that having consorts for the gods is not actually a bad thing. In fact, it solidifies male and female roles in a society.
Yahweh "God," as you point out, is shifting from a man with a beard in the sky to an amorphous universal being with no form. He offers no gender roles and demonstrates nothing. His very amorphous nature allows a society to project whatever values the current elites have onto him. And therefore, when that society is highjacked by jews, they easily make God a sexless empty vessel for whatever you'd like to project onto him. 
Perhaps we need a pantheon of MEN and WOMEN with real forms and real gender roles to serve as an example for mortals to follow. Having a pantheon which depicts male and female gods in proper gender roles anchors mortal gender roles in a concrete mythological story with no room for projection.

At least, that is my theory based on historical observation.
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>>232223
What you're saying about Pagans having female goddesses but being very anti-feminist vaguely reminds me how >we love 2D girls so much but hate 3DPD roasties. We wuz Greeks/Romans or something...
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>>232233
The more things change, the more things stay the same.
>>232223
>, why does the Bible describe him as a man?
Because He is the end point of the masculine, all-powerful
>>232206
You can circumcise a pussy
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>>232221
You can circumcise a pussy
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>>232245
how did it feel?
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>>232251
Why being circumcised? I don't really mind because it gives you something to remember your submission to God, and the nerve damage you get from it makes condom sex not worth it thus pushing you to the real purpose of sex; reproduction.
Church exists for a reason. You know it's not just me right? Or one other person or two. There's countless endless numbers of people. Many people have felt the Spirit of God descend upon them like waves of fire and electricity. You have to wonder why is that. "B-but spiritual stuff happens to all kinds of random people unrelated to Jesus!" Obviously evil spiritual stuff or seeing angels only proves the christian narrative. But of Hindus who say they've seen the gods those are demons, just like Muhammad and Joseph Smith you themselves talk about how they were influenced by demons.
And the small number of spiritual experiences which cannot be reconciled with the christian narrative are in a small margin for error. Not having enough information or not having full understand.

But when we look at the world as a whole, we see the Christian narrative as the one with power. Where to be a christian more or less means you have connection, you've seen, felt, this spiritual world and I've never met a born again christian who hasn't. But it's not the focus.

Muslims follow their religion for cultural reasons, very few people convert to Islam by revelation, in fact only Christianity expands by conversion, not by birthing more children as Jews and Muslims do. Because there's no reason to be a Jew or a Muslim when you've never experienced anything from it. Christianity is in power and Spirit. I was never interested in reading the Bible or being with a church or praying or doing anything like that. culturally I liked christian stuff like crusaders. But only one single event changed my course completely to spend my time not collecting porn.

In 50 AD Paul preached Jesus in Thessalonica. in 51 AD when Paul was in Corinth he wrote back to the church in Thessalonica, to the ones who believed: For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake. And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost: so that ye were ensamples to all that believe in Macedonia and Achaia. (I Thessalonians 1)
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There's a man who was trying to quit pornography and he prayed and fasted for many days when he felt something enter him and his addiction was gone forever, later he learned it was the holy Spirit.
There was a man who was visiting the lake of Galilee and contemplating beside it when he was hit with waves of power and forced to the ground.
A famous preacher was praying earnestly to reach people and as he was walking home he was forced to the ground by waves of God's Spirit.

And whiles I was speaking, and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the LORD my God for the holy mountain of my God; yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation. And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding. At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come (Daniel 9)

Then said he unto me, Fear not, Daniel: for from the first day that thou didst set thine heart to understand, and to chasten thyself before thy God, thy words were heard, and I am come for thy words (Daniel 10)

Two of these have video testimony I can link to actual people talking about it, for no gain to themselves. But you can hear it all you want, you can choose to believe it or not right now either way.
>>232346
>just like Muhammad and Joseph Smith you themselves talk about
>Joseph
You mean you?
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Why are you all debating the finer points when it's completely unnecessary. Why don't we just debate why God created the universe 14 billion years ago and then waited for humans to show up so he could give them a book
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>>232482
Wow 14 billion years!? That's a pretty radical claim. Not quite on the level of "the oceans came from a barrage of comets" or "nothing exploded" or "the faint young sun paradox is..." or "you could bread a worm into a human with enough generations of worms, I promise."
But why talk about any such things? Or entertain anything like the Hindu gods or any other silly cultural thing. Calculating the age of the entire universe by star light is perfectly ridiculous as it would be to calculate the man Adam's age by looking at him on the first day of creation,
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>>232551
Additionally, the Atheist age of the universe, just like all their timelines, failed when the Hubble Telescope was launched, and it failed again when the James Webb Telescope was launched. There's not a single thing in the evolution religion that hasn't been utterly humiliated and debunked in all fields of science. And it's still holding onto people's mind because it HAS to be.
The church is the gathering of the sheep, no one "goes to church" they are gathered. In the 5th century BC the prophet Zechariah described the anti-christ:

And the LORD said unto me, Take unto thee yet the instruments of a foolish shepherd. For, lo, I will raise up a shepherd in the land, which shall not visit those that be cut off, neither shall seek the young one, nor heal that that is broken, nor feed that that standeth still: but he shall eat the flesh of the fat, and tear their claws in pieces. Woe to the idol shepherd that leaveth the flock! the sword shall be upon his arm, and upon his right eye: his arm shall be clean dried up, and his right eye shall be utterly darkened. (Zechariah 11)

He's the idol (false god) shepherd who abandons the flock and does not feed or heal them. That's why Jesus says,

I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep. (John 10)

I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. (John 6)

And he came down with them, and stood in the plain, and the company of his disciples, and a great multitude of people out of all Judaea and Jerusalem, and from the sea coast of Tyre and Sidon, which came to hear him, and to be healed of their diseases; and they that were vexed with unclean spirits: and they were healed. And the whole multitude sought to touch him: for there went virtue out of him, and healed them all. (Luke 6)
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>>232557
Scientists are charlatans. They did some sciency s*tanic black magic in a lab (666) to create them boners then they buried them boners in the ground and acted surprised to find them a few years when they dug them up.
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>>232558
This is what fedora tipping r/atheism users actually think Christians think
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>>232559
It's in the Bibble, you dumb kike. Repent now or drown in my cum. Jesus is King.
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>>232560
Soft tissue extract and mummified dinosaur remains have already been dated.
https://kgov.com/dinosaur-soft-tissue-original-biological-material
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1eXtKzjWP2B1FMDVrsJ_992ITFK8H3LXfPFNM1ll-Yiw/edit?gid=0#gid=0
https://www.newgeology.us/presentation48.html

They are not millions of years old. "Well I hate evidence and I hare science! Nothing exploded! Millions of years ago dinosaurs ROAMED the earth! Just like my picture book says!" 
And I post this by the way not for you, you are hopelessly lost. Anyone can visit Creation.com or ICR.org or AnswersinGenesis.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zF7qOciAu04
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEJENaCgq70
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoK21wZlFvk Trey Smith recently visited the track, he's funny, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9i1hqcSnrHY

"Well if evolution is so dumb then why do I believe it, huh!?" I don't know, have you ever thought about why you do? Because you were taught it with confidence and without question, a religion that only became mainstream because of a fake fossil Piltdown man (strange that you need to constantly create fake fossils to support your totally not-bias religion). When you have accepted a religion that tells you whales and dandelions and ants share a common ancestor you should question if that is at all possible biologically and we know it isn't.
https://vimeo.com/661000964

But, as I say, people will reject the truth for the sake of keeping their personal world view. They won't even hear the truth it is "weird and scary" that their world view could be challenged.
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>>232575
>christianity was founded by kikes
>the theory of evolution was founded by a freemason
Both are red herrings.
>>232575
These are all definitely reliable sources that are totally not working backward from the conclusion they desire to be true. Post more schizo links, my brother in brown. Own those fucking fedoralords. They will be anointed with pozzed loads.
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I live in Alberta and I've never even gone to see the most EPIC preserved dinosaur.

He mentions (I forget his name) but he mentions something I still don't understand which is that "the information we are made of does not reside in us" this is something even secular scientists have to sadly begrudgingly admit with their head bowed low... I just don't really know what that even means. It's James Tour 9 hours debunking Abiogenesis level stuff: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKLgQzWhO4Q

>>232579
If you don't want to believe peer reviewed papers, PHD scientists, physical video proof... you only make a mockery of yourself that people who want the truth can see and turn away from the path you're on.
Replies: >>232584 >>232585
>>232580
And of course Scientific Journals, the top in the world. And I have to say, me providing evidence is better than you providing none.

"Well science isn't always right!"

The problem is that there's all the science for creation. There's NONE, no one has found ANY evidence for the evolution religion. James Webb Telescope didn't. Darwin said there wasn't any transitional fossils, and evolutionists admit we have even less than we did in his day, less than none, we have thousands of fossil bats, we have no "half-bats"... there's nothing to go on. 
As always I challenge evolutionist to prove their religion. They never do, because you guys don't even know what your religion is. It's like trying to convince people the sky isn't green. I'm here showing you proof your religion is wrong, and you sit there and say "no it's not." Why? Because it's painful but, move on! open your mind. Your religion is not you, yes, everyone was duped by this nonsense in the last few decades.

Yeah, you're great-great grandfather wasn't a worm or sea sponge or whatever they change their mythology to like the Romans Greek gods just morphing into this or that. Again though I say this for people who want reality. And it's fine to have questions, but not for people who just say "well evolution is right because it is and anything else is dumb."
>>232580
You tell those fedora kikes what's what. They can't hope to compete with the peer-reviewed papers of reputable institutions such as YouTube and the PhD-certified minds of Answers in Genesis. Truly the Atheists are the agents of Lucifer if they can deny 100% authentic (real) Physical Video Proof™ the Atheists planted them boners and the Earth is only 6,000 years old.
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>>232585
I have to be honest, I'm not reading anymore posts that sound like this. I'm just not interested anymore. So. Talk like a human being in the real world and we'll see.

But again, my challenge is still up, prove your evolution religion anyone. Prove a whale and a pineapple are related. I don't say that mockingly I just you know, I can prove the Bible when asked.
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>>232587
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>>232587
Yeah, us men of Baby Jesus can prove the Bibble so vigorously hard. Shoot more of them brilliant videos with low views and comments turned off, that'll show them how truthy the Bibble really is.
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>>232590
>>232591
Didn't' read. As I said, human speech is what I'll respond to. I'm glad for an excuse to provide more for the seeds of salvation

 And I hope everyone sees how the evolutionists, no matter what, will never even try to prove their religion, they will never provide evidence or even argumentation, you can debunk it in all fields of science and they will still claim "it's true because otherwise God is real." I mean just look at this... I tell you honestly brother, it's a good feeling to be out of the ideocracy and to know Christ came and died and rose again.

If all disbelief does not arise from levity and inconsideration, but if it springs up in some minds on strong grounds and accompanied by the certainty which belongs to truth, well and good; for it then maintains the appearance of being just, when the thing itself to which their disbelief relates appears to them unworthy of belief; but to disbelieve things which are not deserving of disbelief, is the act of men who do not employ a sound judgment about the truth. (Athenagoras, 2nd century)

And I love you all, I'm not trying to TOTALLY OWN YOU. or HUMILIATE YOU, YOU WILL BE HUMBLED I'M SO SMART. But I will always provide answers as Peter commanded in his letter and as is my calling. That is all. So the scoffers will continue to make bad faith arguments and ad-hominin attacks and just start blaspheming. But I have no interest in CRUSHING people I just want to get the information out and you can look at it yourself if you're disturbed that none of your fellow evolutionists will even defend their view.

Because ye know I was not a christian, nor was I the son of a christian. But I was a weeb, taken out from among the loli herds to learn about salvation and no one is less worthy and so I want everyone else to know and experience and see His salvation and that peace which when it comes is beyond understanding.
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>>232591
1.5 million views isn't low, nor are comments turned off (though they should be on every single youtube video as they are useless.) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEHIe6U0L20
4.2 million views isn't low nor are comments turned off https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwCdZ4CbA-E
3 million views isn't low nor are comments turned off https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9f4uF4Va9gI

So I guess that's your standard, not the content but the view count. Which is an odd way of determining truth and I'd say in terms of internet a very very bad way.
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>>232594
>Didn't read
Stopped right there, turnabout being fair play and all. Maybe that's not what you want since you want to convert others to your way of thinking (or at least witness your post), if so you're a hideous failure. On the other hand; You might be one of those disinfo agents whose tactic is to decrease discussion by creating unpleasant posts. If you are one such agent then I'm sure the check's in the mail.
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>>232233
Check'd and kek'd
You may be onto something, anon.

>>232244
In the Bible, God is described as a man with the features of a mortal.
Why would God need hands, a nose, and a dick?
If he lacked these things, don't you think the "perfectly accurate word of God" would mention this?
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>>232346
Ironically, despite everything I've said ITT, I like full church services with lots of ritual and stuff.
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>>232609
If you can't prove evolution or even respond to the endless amounts of evidence against it, there's nothing to discuss. Anyone who wants the truth can look into it and I'm glad to have constant new excuses to let people know the truth by spring boarding off a scoffer.

I haven't uploaded it to mega yet, but there's a really good Christian nature documentary named the riot and the dance. It's amazing how he looks at things and at the scripture being a biologist, the host. People are bored, as I am and many others, at parts of the Bible. "Why is this going on so long about genealogy, why is there SO much detail about the exact building of the tabernacle and the temple? Is it so they can rebuild it later I guess but I mean..." Archaeologist and architects more specifically read those passages and they are spoken to in a way that we cannot understand, it's like these revelations as they make 3D models for these things and understand messages from God within the text. When I try to tell people about how my favourite part of the church letters is not the middle section, the actual content, but the beginning and ending with all the greetings, because it helps me make timelines and the timeline stuff that God includes in the Bible speaks to me in such a personal way. God has things for everyone.
>>232610
Bible been fucked with so much i don't doubt that the son of God having a mutant physiology that is represents what people need to become  without sin as well as solving fundamental problems with humans like the man/women interest tug of war that'll cripple a society when men let the women win or the selection for negative traits when in an easy yet predictable ecology
Christianity as a result is supposed to do 2 things, keep humanity going so the mutation of Jesus can emerge from it again and provide a technology foundation for the new civilization Jesus will build with the clones of Himself He will allow His pussy to make the next time He comes back
Also it might help the populations that are Christian evolve so they are better able to accept the dying off when He comes back, as we are sinful by nature and thus shouldn't be allowed in a civilization that isn't intertwined with sin
He isn't going to execute the Christian populations, He provide an ecology that is so easy and be maintained by Him that everyone will be under dysgenics for so long that no one will be left with genes that'll make them want to reproduce.
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>>232613
Well I don't know what you've said, but church is the gathering of believers. It really has no aesthetic. It's never described to have any in the first or second century. There's only one ritual which is the Lord's Supper. 

Now I don't care if you like liturgical churches that's not the point, but that stuff is made for the setting of eternity, setting our minds on eternity and true life even now. Paradise is pointless for those who would hate to sit in church and be without their phone entertainment and sins and things at home. And so if anyone already likes the simple and sinless environment of the church then they should have salvation which anyone can have because it's offered to everyone. Jesus died not for a few but for the whole world to cleanse everyone from sin. So that they could be made glad in Christ and blameless before God.

If anyone has not considered that Jesus rose from the dead, that is the heart, and the holy Spirit is the energy that powered the spread of the church by spreading the Gospel which gives people an assured hope that they want to be with others of the same.

Tacitus records the spread of Christianity in the first century:  called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular.

The movement was stropped for a moment because of the death of Jesus, but then broke out again, now usually the death of the leader is the end based on many other cases around that time. We have sources that tell us or you can make up your own theory. Jesus rose from the dead after three days and began to appear to people, up to a total of five hundred people. And after 40 days he ascended to God. Following that then the holy Spirit descended upon the disciples and gave them power to preach the Gospel. He may also be referring to the 12 year gap between the ascension of Christ and 12 years later when the church in Israel began to fully understand that gentiles were also part of this New Covenant and preaching to the gentiles began in earnest, when God had led Peter to spread the Word of God to non-Jews in Caesarea.
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>>232632
https://carm.org/about-the-bible/manuscript-evidence-for-superior-new-testament-reliability/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZkQ1szEvLQ

No one is messing with the Bible. It's the most reliable ancient document. People try desperately to put all the different language translations together (as if they can be compared) and then they also count spelling differences in the original Hebrew and Greek and say "ah ha! you see, the bible manuscripts are only 98% in agreement, oooh you can't trust anything in it, it's all lies! It reminds me of something I watched the other day: https://www.youtube.com/live/dyTlW1lLL_A?feature=shared&t=572 "The Sinai Bible, sorry I mean the Gospel of Barnabas."

Now me and my child bride wife are going home. "Whenever we debate with Muslims about Jesus the discussion is always, is he the Son of God, is he divine? Then when we debate about Muhammad the discussion is, is he a pedophile, was he a caravan robber?"
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>>232639
Okay, then explain why God needs hair and a penis. Who is he fucking? Why does his head get cold?
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>>232638
I'm more into the ritual aspect, I don't believe Christianity is accurate.
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>>232639
I am not saying it is all lies, it is the word of God, but filtered through the jew, filtered through time, filtered through language, fucking filtered through female interests, i take it as a test to be able to see what is the adaptive truth in it but i don't know what you're trying to do other then getting soft power
>>232645
>♫ The bible is a lie, we all just come from aliens! Jesus was an alien! ♫
That's stuck in my head now, I can't believe people are still on about that stuff even after Chris White and Micheal Heiser TEAMED UP! Obi-wan and Palpatine TEAM UP! To fight Darth Plaguis. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9w-i5oZqaQ The fact this needed 11 million views says it all. And it just never ends this ridiculousness.

>>232646
And that is the spirit of the antichrist. Because you deny the historical reality. You have crept in unawares and will receive swift destruction no matter how much "religion" you like.

Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: and if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not. For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: and if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. (I Corinthians 15)

For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. (I John 4)

For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. (Jude 1)

So you don't like Christianity, you are its enemy, and I would consider these things. People can meet with the church even if they don't believe (I Corinthians 14.23), but if you have already made up your mind that Jesus is not the Messiah sent from God then you'll only receive greater damnation. But anyone should already be open to all reasonable possibilities and the Christian narrative is the number one purposed, really the only purposed possibility. We perform the only ritual, which is the Lord's Supper, Communion. And we do it to remember Jesus Christ both everything He says and His death for us. So you cannot in fact even like the rituals since you don't believe in them. And anyone is a fool if they participate in religious spiritual rituals ignorantly. As a blind man wandering about without any thought of objective truth.

And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves: For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come. And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you. (Luke 22)

The Bible talks about how those who partake unworthily in this ritual brings damnnation upon themselves (I Corinthians 11.29). And Justin Martyr also describes the ritual There is then brought to the president of the brethren bread and a cup of wine mixed with water; and he taking them, gives praise and glory to the Father of the universe, through the name of the Son and of the Holy Ghost, and offers thanks at considerable length for our being counted worthy to receive these things at His hands. And when he has concluded the prayers and thanksgivings, all the people present express their assent by saying Amen. This word Amen answers in the Hebrew language to 'so be it'. And when the president has given thanks, and all the people have expressed their assent, those who are called by us deacons give to each of those present to partake of the bread and wine mixed with water over which the thanksgiving was pronounced, and to those who are absent they carry away a portion. And this food is called among us the Eucharist, of which no one is allowed to partake but the man who believes that the things which we teach are true (Justin Marytr, 2nd century)

It's interesting that they use wine mixed with water, but ancient people usually never drank water or wine by itself since it's dangerous as Paul points out and as the author of Maccabees says in the 2nd century BC. I'm already halfway out of the community centre. when you people have halted me an additional few minutes.
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>>232666
>666
kek
>you deny the historical reality
There is literally zero reason to believe any of the jewish tales are accurate.
Furthermore, if the magic you believe in is real, just pray for me to be silent. If it works, you'll prove that your religion is correct & I swear upon my race that I will convert.
If I manage to respond to you, then you'll prove that your religion is fake and Jesus is a powerless idol.

>you have already made up your mind
You are describing yourself.
If I asked you whether you would accept evidence that disproves your own religion, you'd say that you wouldn't accept it.
You have already made up your mind.
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>>232669
No, there's zero reason to believe that nothing created everything in the universe, just because you believe in magic and fairy tails doesn't mean I have to. I decide to choose science, history, testimony. Not, planet of the apes and whatever nonsense you want to follow that will die in the future and be forgotten.

Jesus rose from the dead, that's a historical fact agreed on. To go against that is a historically minority opinion. So you have to offer an explanation of the first century, an alternative explanation. You've not done that, no one has done that to any satisfactory level. God doesn't need you, you need Him, Jesus is building His Kingdom with or without you, I don't get any rewards for helping you, God doesn't get better saving you, you rejecting a life preserver is your own doing. Whether you want Him or not does not affect Him, it affects you. And yet still God wants you to have eternal life. He's not after your things or to be mean to you, but he's after you your soul itself, still. Even though you refuse to care about eternal life and investigate. I talk to people all the time they don't know the first thing about the truth that they reject.

And neither do you. You say there's zero reason to believe basic truth. Either you're intellectually dishonest or ignorant, that's the facts, there's nothing that isn't proven of the Christian narrative, clearly you would know that if you actually knew what you reject. You know there's Jews who reject Jesus because they think he's an Italian god man of the catholic church. When they find out He's Jewish they're shocked. Why didn't they know that fact? Because they didn't care to investigate what they reject, and there's a reason for that. Most of my life I never knew we had so many first century documents about Jesus. I never knew that because I never cared enough to investigate what I rejected.

This is also ANOTHER... guys I just don't get you, I don't know what it is. Greentext posts don't work. I think they might be able to but it's like you guys genuinely don't know how to use them. I asked if you have made up your mind about Jesus that he has not raised from the dead then there's no point further. And you've not answered that question. There is no evidence against Jesus raising from the dead. I've seen my Saviour, I know Him He has been with me. Of course I've made up my mind. You're going to try and convince me the moon is fake too? Go ahead and try then.

I'm following the basic narrative of the universe, you are following a fringe theory of nothing, so you need to explain why you reject God and Jesus. All the evidence is for it. You are against it. You have no reason to reject it. Other than you don't like the implications. Which are actually eternal peace.
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When I was with the street preachers at the festivals each week, someone walked by and said "Hey it's the Jesus guy again." to the preacher. Because we were there so often. The preacher turned to me and he was like "I'm so glad to be known as the Jesus guy."

I am so happy to be told by anyone that I've made up my mind to follow Jesus.
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>>232836
No, there's zero reason to believe that nothing created YHWH that created everything in the universe, just because you believe in magic and fairy tails doesn't mean I have to. I decide to choose science, history, testimony. Not, 66 books by, for and of jews and whatever nonsense you want to follow that will die in the future and be forgotten.

Jesus did not rise from the dead, that's a historical fact agreed on. To go against that is a historically minority opinion. So you have to offer an explanation of the first century, an alternative explanation. You've not done that, no one has done that to any satisfactory level.

I'm following the basic narrative of the universe, you are following a fringe theory of nothing, so you need to explain why you reject evolution and materialism. All the evidence is for it. You are against it. You have no reason to reject it. Other than you don't like the implications. Which are you are brown.
Observe the side you are on pagans: >>232841
This is the level of evidence and argumentation you are on: nothing. Is there a single mention of Galatians? Nope. A single mention of Acts or John? Mark? No. How about a mention of Testimonials, no. The existence of christians in the first century in general? No offered explanation.

"Well this is 4chan do you expect high calibre people" Well no of course not.


But that's why Gary Habermas said "the critics of Christianity have largely given up offering any explanation for an alternative to the resurrection." They don't want Celsus' idea that Jesus was just demon possessed, they don't want Nietzsche's idea because it's very poor even by atheist standards of reason.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8fKZ9QyHH4
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>>232841
What you said reminded of me of this, lol.
Observe the side you are on christians: >>232842
This is the level of evidence and argumentation you are on: nothing. Is there a single mention of Darwin? Nope. A single mention of Galton? Mendel? No. How about a mention of Biology, no. The lack of physical evidence? No offered explanation.

"Well this is 4chan do you expect high calibre people" Well no of course not.


the proponents of Christianity have largely given up offering any proof for the resurrection. They don't want Muhammad's idea that Jesus was just a prophet.
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And then the pagans say, "What about Bart Ehrman!? Debate him, I dare you! He will HUMILIATE YOU! Go on the Myth Vison podcast they will DESTROY you!" Bart Ehrman is one of the weakest critics that's ever slithered out of Satan's lair. He makes Celsus look like Voltaire. This is the same guy who says II Thessalonians is a forgery by some random christian because "christians aren't doing enough work because they think the end is near, I need to forge a letter pretending to be Paul and pretend to discover it as if it was sent to the Thessalonians even though the church at Thessalonica still exists and would have known which letters Paul sent to them...."

"But he will still HUMILITATE you! You are scared! you are scared you see! Richard Dawkins has already DESTROYED you ALL! There is no hope for you now, inhale your copium while you can! It's CHRIST-OVER for you! This time for real! Maybe it didn't end at the crucifixion, or when Diocletian destroyed all your sacred texts! But now it's over for you at last! Some poor peasant who preached for three years! His words will never reach the world, he will never change people's lives! He's not who he said he is you see! Richard Dawkins has proven it all! Bart Ehrman ooooh Ehrman great prophet of our time destroy the filthy superstition! Humshakalakalaka! Humshakalakalaka!"

>>232847
I have mentioned Darwin... and biology. And physical evidence. It's as if you are saying the opposite of what is true, but I guess that's what a troll post is suppose to do, so congratulations. If Darwin, the guy who admitted he had no evidence for his theory is your saviour, the guy who had no job and put on a military ship drawing birds.
Darwin say birds and said "they must have come from a family of birds." And then concluded whales and bananas are related: let me tell you, you got to be at least that smart, to make posts like this: >>232847
Still no explanation for the first century? Still no mention of any of the 30+ documents from the first century or the christians.

I'd like everyone once again to note I respond to everything, these people refuse at all cost to respond to anything, because they have nothing to refute history with. If you follow them you will receive nothing, but Christ has all things, he never runs out he can turn water to wine.

Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; and to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ (Ephesians 3)

I know by the way "why are yoou responding to a troll respond to REAL arguments." well they are never presented, but that is why I'm glad to use scoffers to offer the true and living God for those who are destined to salvation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gefA3f0n3OY
Replies: >>232854 >>232973
But you have all counted yourselves unworthy of eternal life, your blood is on your own head. I go now to those who want it. Because the Lord will not have me cast holy things to swine who stomp them.
>I'd like everyone once again to note I respond to everything except all the times I make up an excuse not to including ITT
Fix'd.
>>232850
If Yeshua, the guy who has no evidence for his miracles is your saviour, the guy who had a roman dad and nailed to a cross. Yeshua say "he come for lost sheep of israel" and said "not one dot of the law will be removed." And then christians concluded they are G-ds chosen people do not have to follow the laws: let me tell you, you got to be at least that smart, to make posts like this: >>232850
Still no explanation for the first century? Still no mention of any of the talmud.
>>232851
Holy fuck, you cunts are so insufferable.
>>232836
>Jesus rose from the dead, that's a historical fact agreed on
False. No one thinks that is a historical fact. It's only in the Bible. No other historic mention of it and even the Bible isn't contemporary with the events in doubt.
> To go against that is a historically minority opinion
False. The vast majority of historians agree that the Bible is not a reliable source on biblical mythological events.
>Jesus is building His Kingdom with or without you
This is supposed to make me want to buy into the story. The problem is that I don't, indeed, I cannot buy into a story I find laughably poorly constructed.

>Whether you want Him or not does not affect Him, it affects you.
No it doesn't.
> God wants you to have eternal life.
If he did, he has only to introduce himself. If he existed, he could do that. He doesn't, so you need to fabricate a ham fisted excuse.
> I talk to people all the time they don't believe me
That's because you are lying.
>You say there's zero reason to believe basic truth
False. I said that there is zero reason to believe the poorly written lies you're pushing.

>you're intellectually dishonest or ignorant
False. You lied when you claimed that historians agreed that Jesus rose from the dead. No serious historian claims that there is any reliable evidence of this.

>I asked if you have made up your mind about Jesus 
My mind is less made up than yours. You refuse to accept information that contradicts your mythology.
The people you describe as close minded are more open minded than you because we came to this position ourselves from research. You admit that you will reject any truth that does not conform to your artificial religion.

>I'm following the basic narrative of the universe
False, you're poorly arguing the position of a very, very dumb religion.
Christianity may be one of the most poorly thought out cults ever devised.
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>>232851
nigger is a fed. no way a homeless would have constant 24/7 internet access like this
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>>232864
There are many places with free Wi-Fi around. It's not suitable for streaming 4K TikToks or online gayming, but it's enough for imageboards.
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>>232864
ffs, fed is as overused as racist. There are a LOT of losers online.
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>>232869
nigger needs a life its pathetic

>>232870
Yeah yeah I know but its fitting in this case
>>232841
>Not, 66 books
There is not supposed to be only 66 books, and this is a problem I have been trying to get to the bottom of for a few weeks now. KJV bibles used to have more than that when including the apocrypha, but now they're gone.

>>232850
Do you think evolution happens on a small scale or simply not at all? I'm pretty sure creatures can evolve over time but things like humans and mantis shrimp sharing a common ancestor sound absurd, not to mention unprovable.
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>>232973
The Hebrew Bible has a certain list of scriptures. When it was translated into Greek in the 2nd century BC more writings were added to that over time. Of course you have to know "the bible" is a modern thing. People had individual scriptures, even into the middle ages, when Joan of Arc was on trial it says she "swore on the four Gospels and some of the Epistles" they didn't have her swear on the whole bible why? Probably because they didn't have access to one. There was probably one in Paris tied by a chain in the church. "Well we're not gonna bring it over for this trail." 
When Christians put the New Testament with the Old Testament, they used the Old Testament from the Greek Bible (Septuagint) which also came with the additional stuff in it like Maccabees. However it has always been controversial. Jerome in the 4th century was the one who made the world's most popular Bible, the Latin Bible (Vulgate), and although he translated from the Hebrew Bible he also included the additional writings from the Greek Bible. Although he considered them "semi-canon" at first but he was somewhat convinced over time maybe that they were just canon. Therefore the English Bible did essentially the same thing, the Hebrew Bible is canon, the additional writings in the Greek Bible are semi-canon. Of course the Apocrypha in the English Bible is different than the Latin, for example II Esdras is only in the English Bible not in the Latin. Justin Martyr is the first Christian to mention canon issues, in the second century, saying that the Jews were taking books out of their canon because of Christianity. But then you can also say even in the first century some people were trying to reject Paul's letters. Eusebius in the 4th century mentions a sect of Christians who only accepted the Gospel of Matthew. There's the Peshita canon and the Armenian church, and there's also the Ethiopian Bible which has the most insane canon there is.
But all these things are about nonsense in some ways, just an excuse to argue about nothing. If Psalm 151 is in the Bible or not what does it change? Does it change the way we live or interact or pray or anything? No, well. So you make a decision which Bible. You won't find ANY Bible that excludes the true boiled down canon. You've got 150 Psalms in every Bible, whether you want to add one more or not I don't know. But that's why the Bible repeats itself over and over again, That's why God has four Gospels not one, and tells Israel's history twice not once. And so many things are just repeated over and over, You can exclude half the Bible from canon and it would still say the same things and have the same conclusions. And also the Bible repeats itself so much in case you missed something the first time which is common.
A problem with the Apocrypha being canon though, is that no one in the New Testament references those books, like Maccabees or Ecclesiasticus, or Susana (addition to Daniel), or Judith which would have helped make them canon for sure. And most notably Wisdom is never mentioned in any of the New Testament writings, despite the fact it has one of the greatest prophecies of Jesus.
A problem that doesn't exist however is a change to anything. Whether the Latin or English Apocrypha is canon, doesn't really change anything. Yes, Maccabees mentions praying for the dead and giving money to the Temple for the sake of the dead, other than that there's really nothing unique in the Apocrypha. And that is a big statement that Maccabees makes, you can come to your own conclusions if you want. One reason for the English Apocrypha being removed from English Bibles is that the English Apocrypha includes II Esdras which is essentially indefensible in terms of reliable writing. It's questionable whether it was ever meant to be taken as actual history or just a story to tell theological points. It's a book that talks about Ezra one of the last old prophets and it tells a story of him getting revelations from God and part of those revelations include God telling Ezra the Messiah will be called "Jesus" and he'll do this and that. It's obviously a book written long after the time of Ezra 5th century BC and even long after the time of Jesus, at best it might be late 1st century, and I'd like to think it is, but it could be 2nd century. Obviously again, if it was written before the time of Jesus someone obviously would have mentioned it in the New Testament writings "hey remember how Ezra said the Messiah's name would be Jesus and he would do this and that exactly specifically." And II Esdras has God speaking to Ezra, so whoever wrote it basically just made up words for God to say while speaking to Ezra, which the rest of the Apocrypha really doesn't go that far, it's mostly books of wisdom from holy men.

Animals change within their kind, they have that built in, built in diversity and adaptability in the code of their and our DNA. But a Turtle does not have whale code, it does not have sunflower code, it cannot acquire those things. Evolution purposes that organisms born with birth defects, those birth defects are passed on and build up one generation after another over time so that any organism can turn to anything. Look up the earliest ancestors for man, it's usually purposed as a worm or a sea sponge, and ask yourself, within 500 million years, naturally breeding worms, could you ever through birth defects get a human begin? And when that birth defect happens you need another creature of the same problem to breed with it and it has to take over the population and then the next birth defect change, it doesn't matter how many millions of years you have, if something is not going to happen it's not going to happen. The Bible says God created each "animal kind", now that actually is exactly what we see. We see kinds of animals and their diversity. the wolf has been bred into many different kinds of wolves, which we call dogs, there are tons and tons of very different dogs. Can we breed them into plants? or beetles? or back into fish from whence they came like us? There's no biological reason to believe that would ever happen without serious gene splicing mad scientism, even the dogs we have now are a result of serious calculated intervention. And we haven't even bred anything better than what we started with. Pugs and Chihuahuas would get wrecked by a wolf. And most dogs would not survive on their own.
Now atheists are lost, they can believe a single cell formed itself and then bred accidentally to all organic life on earth if they want. But many Christians believe in evolution through God because "academic people with blue hair said evolution is true because.... it is." but the evidence for evolution is not there. And also, the Bible doesn't fit with evolution, no matter how hard they try, you can't have millions of years of death before Adam's sin. God created man in his own image, directly, not through millions of years of monkeypeople world. And I'll tell you honestly there's a whole world of research and evidence against evolution and also exposes how full of lies it is. God created man from the dust of the earth. I believe he can do that. And Atheists say "haha that's so stupid" not realising that they themselves believe that the dust created man by on it's own. Like finding a cell phone on the ground and saying "ah yes, this must have formed through unintelligent natural processes." Man can take the metals of the earth and create a car, some things simply don't form on their own, like DNA. And they can have their theories and these things, they are easily be debunked, the fact is they have to have their theories regardless of how ridiculous they are. All of our history written in stone talks about Noah and the flood, talks about God creating man, talks about acient people living really long lifespans, talks about the Tower of Babel, no mention of monkeypeople or monkeyworlds. I've already posted some presentations and things which you can look at with just an open mind. I think everyone should look at all things and just know the evidence of opposing views. I know why flat earthers believe what they believe, I've seen a lot of their stuff and I don't consider their evidence sufficient but I've looked into it and into the round earth evidences. Most people believe evolution they genuinely don't even know why yet at the same time don't accept any opposing view, why? because the idea that God is here and staring us right in the face is unsettling.
The real evidence against evolution is not how ridiculous it is though, it's the alternative explanation for the layers of earth, which were laid down by the global flood. That fact is what is what's really being purposed. But yeah you can already look into that stuff.
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>>233046
Holy wall of text, Batman!

>Of course you know "the bible" is a modern thing.
Yes, and this causes quite a few problems. I am wondering why I have not heard of anyone guided by the Holy Ghost compiling a complete book of scriptures free of controversy.

>A problem with the Apocrypha being canon though, is that no one in the New Testament references those books, like Maccabees or Ecclesiasticus, or Susana (addition to Daniel), or Judith which would have helped make them canon for sure. And most notably Wisdom is never mentioned in any of the New Testament writings, despite the fact it has one of the greatest prophecies of Jesus.
That is not a valid reason for leaving them out of the bible even as mere historical references. No rule exists where a book must be mentioned in the New Testament in order for it to make it into the Old Testament, that is just man-made nonsense. Going by that criteria, several books of the bible would have to be cut out:
https://www.knowableword.com/2013/03/27/11-old-testament-books-never-quoted-in-the-new-testament/

>Obviously again, if it was written before the time of Jesus someone obviously would have mentioned it in the New Testament writings "hey remember how Ezra said the Messiah's name would be Jesus and he would do this and that exactly specifically."
It "obviously" would have happened? According to who? Is it not talked about numerous times in the New Testament how Jesus fulfilled various prophecies? Can it not be supposed that someone would have talked about what is said in II Esdras in an epistle or some similar document only for it to be lost or destroyed? We read in Jude about how Enoch prophesied, yet we have no original copies of anything he said. The closest we have is the Ethiopian translation of the Book of Enoch found in the Dead Sea Scrolls, and to this day there is much debate about its validity.

Further, there is the book of Jasher which is mentioned not once, but at least twice in the Old Testament. Based on the research I've conducted, the reason why it's not in the bible isn't because of any doctrinal errors or anything of the sort, it's just "lost". That is why I have a big problem with the canon of the bible, there seems to be a lot of things unanswered such as who the men of renown were in Genesis. Jesus and his disciples did not even go around with "bibles" like you and I sort of can today, most if not all of what we have in the New Testament was written long after he perished on the cross and rose again. What has gone into the bible is made up by humans such as ourselves.
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>>233046
>But a turtle does not have whale code, it does not have sunflower code ...
Yes, this much is true. There is no way, even given a trillion years, that single-cell bacteria can transform into something with features as complex as a beating heart or functioning immune system.

More importantly, I'd advise you to improve the formatting of your posts in the future. Getting through all of that was a little painful, but you had some interesting things to say nonetheless.
>>233052
The problem with the Apocrypha books not being mention is important because they were not canon to begin with. The Hebrew Bible canon is affirmed by the New Testament authors mentioning it and because they were already canon. They don't mention any of the apocrypha, if they mentioned at least just Wisdom, then the rest of the Greek inclusions would have credibility. But the Apostles don't mention any of them which leads one to believe they only affirmed the Hebrew Canon, essentially Wisdom because again it contains a prophecy of Jesus which isn't ever used by the New Testament authors probably because Wisdom was controversial. And yes references are made to some other books, Paul names the two magicians of the Exodus despite their names not being in the Bible and he got that from some other works which were likely true based on passed down traditions, but nothing of the Greek inclusions is mentioned.
And Jesus does an A to Z of martyrs in Luke 11 when he says from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zacharias. The Hebrew Bible goes from Genesis to Chronicles. Abel is the first martyr in history at the beginning of Genesis and Zacharias is martyred near the end of the book of Chronicles. The four hundred years of history between Esther and Jesus, with the Maccabean revolt and all its martyrs is never brought up or even referenced by Jesus or his disciples in any writings. So while you can say maybe they considered them canon, what we actually have to go by is silence.

According to logic and reason, I don't know if you've read II Esdras, but if you read it, and then tell me if if logic tells you that book existed before the time of Jesus, and whether someone in the first or even second century would have mentioned it. It has THE number one prophetic words for Jesus's legitimacy. And no one mentions it. Because it didn't exist until much later. Understand Mormons argue their book is real despite no one referencing the very important events of those books up until the 1800s, and the argument is that the additional mormon books most of them were once included in the Bible but taken out despite the fact there's not a single manuscipt of any of them before the 1800s, for these supposed ancient Israel prophetic writings. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AVksae-Frk
So we be wise like serpents. This is why we exclude things like the Gospel of Barnabas from the Bible, because we can use wisdom and reason and logic and find it is false. The four Gospels we can use logic and deduce them as real from internal evidence and also external like their canonicity in the second century and their references in the late 1st.
Replies: >>233185
When I say "The Hebrew Bible goes from Genesis to Chronicles" I mean the Jewish traditional Hebrew Bible. It ends with Chronicles. So Jesus in Luke 11 and Matthew 23 is essentially saying "the blood of everyone in the Tanakh is coming down on you."

Therefore also said the wisdom of God, I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they shall slay and persecute: that the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation; From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias, which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation. (Luke 11)

Jesus said this to the scribes, lawyers, and Pharisees. He did not say this to the Sadducees, and you'll notice that Jesus uses the Sadducees' canon when he speaks to them. The Sadducees only believe the Torah (the books of Moses) were canon. Which is why they don't believe in a resurrection from the dead which is mentioned most notably by the prophet Daniel. Jesus never criticizes the Sadducees for not trusting in the writings of later prophets after Moses but uses Genesis only to answer them in Matthew 22.

And the fact that the Sadducees were so strict they only recognised the Torah, it's hard to imagine many sects were loose enough to consider the Greek Bible additions firmly inspired. Josephus would be important here I know, I regret to say I have no read all of Josephus though I know he mentions something about the Hebrew canon in the first century. Eventually yeah I'll read that, I can't read everything, not everything.
Replies: >>233185
since I didn't get any answers, I will repost this...
What's the best version of the Bible? Yes, I know about the Nag Hammadi Library. But I mean the mainstream Bible. KJV is written in great and ceremonial style but it has some problems (likely arising from the manuscripts that they had available at the time).

 Links 
* The Nag Hammadi Library: http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/nhlalpha.html
* The Dead Sea Scrolls scripture in English: http://dssenglishbible.com/
* intertextual bible site: https://intertextual.bible/book/testament-of-solomon/chapter/1
Replies: >>233190
>>233058
>because they were not canon to begin with
According to whom, and how did they reach this conclusion? The Sadducees and Pharisees had different canons at their time, and as you said the Jewish traditional Hebrew Bible stops at Chronicles. Was it deemed by the Holy Ghost or mortal men that the apocryphal books not only aren't scripture but also not fit to be seen by ordinary people given that they are removed from bibles most people have access to? Did the people who took the apocrypha out of, say, the 1611 King James bible do so because God told them to or because of their personal feelings? If the apocrypha made it into the 1611 King James version of the bible at least to provide historical context and the translators behind it were so smart and moved by God, then why would it later be taken out?

>They don't mention any of the apocrypha
This is not entirely true. For example, John 10:22 talks about the feast of dedication, found nowhere in any bible except for ones that contain I and II Maccabees.

>the Maccabean revolt and all its martyrs is never brought up or even referenced by Jesus or his disciples in any writings
That is why Jesus went to the feast of dedication, then? I know I just referenced it above but I will paste it here anyway:
22. And it was at Jerusalem the feast of dedication, and it was winter.
23. And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch.

https://www.learnreligions.com/feast-of-dedication-700182

>I don't know if you've read II Esdras
No, I haven't. Much of this stuff is still new to me as I didn't know there were many documents hidden from sight despite being known about and read extensively in the past. I have been trying to do some research on how exactly the bible was compiled and while I still don't question my faith, I am beginning more and more to question the authority of those who put it together and have taken away from it, as well as whether the bible can be considered complete. Why obscure so much context and history? Why are so many works like the books of Jasher or the Wars of the Lord lost? Where are original prophecies of Enoch?

>>233059
Did the most prominent and educated (concerning the scriptures) Jews not reject Jesus and have him put on the cross? Were the disciples and apostles not threatened with death for spreading the gospel and hunted down by them? Who are they to determine what is or isn't canon?
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>>233075
KJV, ESV or NIV
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>>233185
The Apocrypha was not treated as canon by the Jews and Jesus and the apostles never mentions them, that's all there is to say, since the second century what additional books people want to put in has been discussed since that time. John mentions Hanukkah, which the tradition of Hanukkah comes from the Maccabean revolt and the Maccabean revolt is in the book of Maccabees. But he's not referencing the books just the tradition. The books could not exist at all he's just mentioning the reality it was the time of Hanukkah (the feast of the dedication) at that time.
People just took out the English Apocrypha because its canon is dubious and therefore some people don't want to bother with it at all. Especially II Esdras which says nice things but is a lie of a book. If you want to have a Bible with the apocrypha you still can anyways.
Jesus affirms the Tanakh in Luke 11, he affirms the traditional Tanakh, in Luke 11. From Abel to Zacharias, from Genesis to Chronicles, that's the kind of Bible Jesus is referencing. And the religious authorities are in the seat of Moses and everything they say to keep and observe Jesus said to do to the disciples.
So you can just get a Bible with apocrypha or not.
Replies: >>233465
>>233297
>that's all there is to say
I already pointed out that not mentioning the content or themes of a book has nothing to do with whether it belongs in a bible or not. By this criteria, several books of the Old Testament would have to be taken out. As well, I am not purely discussing whether the apocryphal books should be regarded as divinely inspired scripture; if they aren't they would certainly be useful for providing historical background to different things mentioned in the scriptures. Why take them out even if they aren't inspired by the Holy Ghost even though they are still of extensive use to Christians? Something about that isn't right.

>But he's not referencing the books just the tradition. The books could not exist at all he's just mentioning the reality it was the time of Hanukkah
What are you using to conduct your research? I and II Maccabees alone were written before Jesus was born. Or are you saying that the feast would still be mentioned even if both Maccabees were never written? In either case it does not matter. If someone were reading the book of John and did not know what the feast is or where it comes from, he could read up on it in the bible... provided he does not own a watered-down version with the apocryphal books (and potentially more) removed.

>because its canon is dubious
Again, according to whom? Was this determined by man or the Holy Ghost, and how do we know for certain? From what I have read, it is c*tholics and pr*testants who arrived at these conclusions concerning canonicity even though they have zero authority on this matter. They are pagans, trinitarians at best, with no understanding of any kind of the scriptures.

>And the religious authorities are in the seat of Moses and everything they say to keep and observe Jesus said to do to the disciples.
That's great and all except they rejected Jesus and sought to have him killed. Not only that, they aren't around today. Whatever they believed died with them.

That leaves us with the bible today and the current debates on canonicity. As I asked before, where are the original prophecies of Enoch and where are the books of Jasher and the Wars of the Lord? I do not expect you to be able to answer these, I surely can't. The problem is that if we were to find these documents, then what?

I am now wondering why we even have bibles at all. You say I can just get one with or without the apocrypha included. Why have it taken out? Did or did not the Septuagint's translators receive guidance from the Holy Ghost when they included them and if not, how certain can we be that the compilation of scriptures we have now is actually "complete"?
Replies: >>233471
>>233465
No one is taking the Apocrypha out of "the bible" that's the point!
It was not part of the Hebrew Canon, and Jesus and the Apostles never reference them! So what does that mean? Jesus and the Apostles don't have to reference all the books of the Hebrew canon because they are not disputed. Jesus references the entire Tanakh, so in a sense he does reference every book of the Hebrew canon. To add anything more to the canon it would require authority. The New Testament is made from the Apostles and their disciples.

John mentions Hanukah, he does not mention Maccabees. That's the point. There's lots of things the bible mentions which aren't fully explained unless you read extrabiblical material. And if you want to read that material go ahead, but of course that has nothing to do with canon.

Who determines canon, I've said, we know what the Jews considered canon and that Jesus himself references the whole Tanakh. As well as various passages. If you personally do not want the books in the Bible which Jesus and his Apostles don't allude to directly, then you can take those out, it wouldn't change much at all. The only books not referenced are Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther, Ecclesiastes, Song. Probably about 2% of the old testament or less.
They also don't reference any of the Apocrypha, and the difference is, no one considered the Apocrypha canon. Even in the 4th century Jerome when he made the Vulgate which solidified the Apocrypha as canon, he admitted that they were "semi-canon and not found in the original Hebrew Bible." And again, the Hebrew Bible gets its authority from Jesus and the Apostles using it.

Books that have been lost, are lost, God doesn't believe that we need them. They're referenced in the Bible and that is enough for whatever purpose. Why does the holy Bible contain a passage about Paul asking Timothy to grab his cloak, well there are reasons, such as added authenticity and realism and grounding, and also some spiritual lessons.

I thought I posted this post already, it's just been sitting here unposted in my other tab.

In terms of the Septuagint, it should be noted that we really don't know about the canon of the Septuagint, the reality is the earliest Greek Bibles contain all kinds of different stuff that is not in agreement with each other. Over time things were translated and added to the Greek Septuagint, but we do have a pretty solid understanding of what it should contain. And one thing about complete Bibles is also that just because they have things means in many ways nothing without a note. My Bible has the book of common prayer included in it... someone digs it up in the future "aah in the 21st century Christians believed the book of common prayer was inspired scripture, very interesting!" But then what matters about canon anyways? Only this, that you can get doctrine from canon. That's why the English church when they separated from the Roman church. they took the Apocrypha out of the canon but kept them in the Bible. Because they are too dubious to say "we can get doctrine of God from Maccabees" that considered that too dubious and these books have always been debated and not always accepted in all churches. Is there any strange doctrine that comes from these books? No, not really. And that is why the debate is essentially a non-debate throughout history, it really doesn't come up very much. If someone took Matthew out of the Bible "Heretic! What are you doing!?" and even if someone did that the Bible would still have the same message because it repeats the message so many times. That's all there is to say. You can have the Apocrypha in the Bible that's why people offer it like that. Just like people offer Bibles which are just the New Testament or just the Old Testament. What does the Apocrypha actually say, anything bad? no. Well then there's no issue whether you read it or not.
Replies: >>233490
>>233471
>No one is taking the Apocrypha out of "the bible" that's the point!
It was in the King James bible for a while before getting removed entirely. When I open the King James bible on my desk, it's not there.

>he does not mention Maccabees. That's the point.
>And if you want to read that material go ahead
My point was that neither of the books had to be removed from the bible. Of course it may seem excessive to put every last thing ever mentioned in the bible into some sort of index at the very back, but it is very suspicious that the apocrypha is missing from the version of the bible that many "Christians" swear by to this very day.

>when he made the Vulgate which solidified the Apocrypha as canon, he admitted that they were "semi-canon"
So here lies the problem. It appears that whether something belongs in the bible or not is completely made up by mortal men. No input from the Holy Ghost to cement the matter, just speculation and uncertainties.

>Books that have been lost, are lost, God doesn't believe that we need them.
Not only is this entirely false, there is no way you can possibly prove it. If someone like Enoch prophesied, why would God not want us to hear and read what was said? What is the point of the prophecy if no one knows it?

A lot of things in the bible remain unanswered, and asking people about them in real life yields nothing. Subjects such as why God didn't warn Adam that Eve had sinned, why Satan was allowed in the garden of Eden, how did animals reach different continents after the great flood, who was Cain's wife, why was Satan created with the knowledge he would fail, why would he turn against God in the first place, so much needs to be addressed but simply isn't.

>the reality is the earliest Greek Bibles contain all kinds of different stuff that is not in agreement with each other
Then it looks like I will have to do a lot of personal research on this matter. Growing up I was under the impression that the bible was this bulletproof collection of the sayings of God. What is becoming more and more apparent to me now is that there is a lot which is not understood and a lot that we simply don't know at all. It's as they say: the more you learn, the more you realize you don't really know anything.

Part of me regrets ever trying to figure this stuff out. I wanted to prove for myself that the bible was complete and yet I have done the exact opposite. This is going to take a very long time for me to sort out completely.
Replies: >>233491 >>233506
>>233490
Yeah well you should open the KJV on e-sword the and install the KJVA.

They're removed because people don't want them and because it takes up space and makes the bible bigger. You can take out all sorts of books from your bible, most people should only be reading the Gospels over and over to be frank. And very very few people should be reading the entire Bible with Apocrypha. They'd be better of just reading the Gospels over and over.

You see this is why Greentext doesn't work, you're not responding to what I'm saying. YOU GUYS ARE NOT RESPOINDING TO WHAT I'M SAAAAYINGGGG, sotp with the greentext replies they dont' work, response to the whole of what I'm saying. JEROME SAID THAT THE HEBREW BIBLE DIDN'T HAVE THESE BOOKS! He's not deciding "oh well I decided this isn't canon. IT'S NOT IN THE CANON TO BEGIN WITH. BUT YOU IGNORE WHAT I SAY BECAUSE YOU'RE ONLY USING HALF A SENTENCE. You're replying to half a sentence and you're replying to something that makes no sense becuase IT"S HALF A SENTECE.

You people are going to drive me crazy with this greentext nonsense. Jerome admits the Hebrew Bible didn't have these things.

"Well who says the Hebrew Bible gets to determine what is canon." Uhhh Jesus does I guess. When he attended Synagogue each sabbath day and read from the scripture as was his custom. When Jesus says "observe and obey the Pharisees and scribes because they sit in the seat of Moses."

We continue the true religion of Israel. And Israel had the Hebrew Bible.

I have genuinely no idea way you say true things are false about God. Is God stupid? Is he dumb? He wants us to have things but he just he can't give them to us! God is so desperate for us to have the book of Jasher but history beat him, so sad. God failed I guess. God doesn't think we NEED the book of Jasher, and we don't. It served it's purpose and now it's gone.

I just don't know what you're so dedicated and on about. No one in this world is confused by the Bible. It's the most availible packet of information in the world. You are overcome with madness friend. Just read the Bible. "Well I don't know if Psalm 151 should be in the bible!?" WHO CARES!? I'll tell you honestly that's not what Christianity is about. And again your greentext FAILS to talk about what I'm actually talking about. My goodness guys, you guys NEED to stop with the greentext, just respond to what I say. Old bible manuscripts have all sorts of additional inclusions, are they considered canon? Probably not. They are part of the manuscripts as a way to preserve them. The Letter of Barnabas is in Codec I don't know Sinaticus or Vaticanus I forget and don't care. But we know they didn't consider it canon in Ceasera.

I don't know, the Bible has never changed for 2,000 years, it's right there for everyone, anyone trying to trick you otherwise is from the devil "oooh what about this Gospel of Thomas and this other thing." Yeah it's all fake garbage. And in terms of holy good writings like Ecclesiasticus, yeah it's good, do you want to read it or not? I don't care! And neither does God. God cares about how you follow Christ. Not if you have the most bible knowledge.
Replies: >>233518
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Guys, I want you to imagine talking to someone okay, imagine talking to someone and you give a big speech... and then that person stops and then they repeat half of a sentence you said and respond to it. Is that a conversation? have you ever had communication with a human being like that?

Of DO YOU, TAKE what someone says as a whole and form a response. I've been awake well over 24 hours, I just spent the whole day preaching to people on another imageboard, crazy people as always but one or two people who actually were good. I'm tired, and if I ever see anyone greentext half a sentence of mine again I'll scream.
Also since we know the Hebrew Canon was endorsed by Jesus and his apostles, how do we get the New Testament canon? It's all from Apostles and their disciples.

Is it that simple? Yes. And that's why those are the books that remain firm and are used for doctrine. Anything else is dubious and you can put it in your bible or not but don't expect Christians to take you seriously if you try to preach and strange new doctrine from them, not that you can because they won't even have strange new doctrine.

Yes, technically if the New Testament is made up of the Apostles and their disciples, then the letter of Barnabas should be included and the letter of Clement. Well they're not included. Barnabas says the world would only last 6,000 years because that was a Jewish idea that the world would last 6,000 years then 1,000 years the Messiah would reign. So Barnabas is wrong, the world is older than 6,000 years. Clement says Hyena's can change their sex, he was wrong, so that can't be inspired either. Is there any problems with the current canon? no. So it would seem that the early Christians got it right and that's why it has stood the test of time.
>>233494
>I've been awake well over 24 hours, I just spent the whole day preaching to people on another imageboard, crazy people as always but one or two people who actually were good
<stay awake for over 24 hours just to preach your religion on the internet
<y-you're the crazy ones
>I'm tired, and if I ever see anyone greentext half a sentence of mine again I'll scream.
Record it and post it here.
Replies: >>233506
>>233494
Written communication is different than verbal, retard. Common behaviors found in verbal communication likewise sound stupid when written. Partially quoting someone to address a specific point is nothing new. It's not remotely unique to imageboards. You're just a brown moron who keeps pestering others in spaces you supposedly feel remorse for ever having engaged with now, yet you never fuck off for long.
Replies: >>233506
Also, it's crazy how you have someone earnestly engaging you to discuss your jewish fairy tales and you still lose your shit and shut down like a petulant nigger (probably because that's what you are offline).
Replies: >>233506
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>>233490
So do you get it now!? DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT THE HEBREW BIBLE IS WHAT IT IS AND IT WAS USED BY JESUS AND HIS APOSTLES!?
"But maybe they used other books too!"
...well okay well, like okay. You can say that I don't know. read those books to then if you want. But the Hebrew Bible is what it is.


>>233502
>>233504
O Lord, you've sent me to these poor poor lost souls. Nay, not to them O Lord, but I sow to those who will inherit salvation, by all means necessary. They see it a strange thing, as a form of madness that has overtaken me, that I would dedicate my life to Christ and Christ wants me to tell others as is my task in the church. Why would Jesus' disciples suffer torture and death while proclaiming He rose from the dead, why would born again Christians die for Jesus? I have told them already Lord why, but they do not listen. Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. (John 3).
Aside from you >>233497 you have a heart I'm sure. And you should read the New Testament.

You're salvation does not affect my own, just so you know, nothing you do affects my salvation. I am here because Christ loved not because I had loved. Any good thing I do comes from Christ and I don't care if you hate me and say whatever you want about me, because I am in Christ, and you remain without in your little racist strange mad hate and pathetic attempts at personal attacks while knowing nothing about me personally. I do not care. I am not better than anyone and don't care to be. I've cared more about your eternal lives than you ever probably will it seems.
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>>233506
Non-sequitur.
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>>233506
what happened to >>232851
>>233507
Oh my goodness... you think... you think I care about what you have to say about me being a "nigger born moron idiot"? I'm sorry to disappoint, I do not. And I typed a text wall more about you guys but I don't think it's necessary to post. I'll just say this:

Stop replying to my posts, stop talking to me. I'm the one pestering people? You guys respond to MY posts all the time nonstop, you try everything you can to derail my threads into your satanic nonsense. You guys have said you're not inheriting eternal life, you're not interested, then go away. Go away. And don't talk to me. I'm hiding your posts.
Replies: >>233521
>spams the board with incoherent rambling
<N-NO U STOP POSTING
Truth doesn't fear investigation, nigger. Cry more.
>>233494
Green (and pink) texting allows you to quote or paraphrase what someone said. You don't have to quote every word someone typed before responding (nor should you do this in real life), in many instances quoting a bit and then addressing the main point of the entire post or paragraph suffices. That is what I have been doing this whole time. You may want to stop using these kinds of websites if that's a problem. But, since you are on the verge of cracking, I'll forgo it just this once. I'll split my response into two parts to make it easier on your eyes.

>>233491
It is a matter of opinion whether the apocryphal books take up space or  make the bible too big. There is no set size for the bible mentioned by God anywhere in even a single scripture. Not 66 books, 73, or even 3,000. If we're going to go by the canonicity of the Hebrew bible, for example, then the entire New Testament would have to be nullified as scripture since they "take up space", people (the most elite Jews) "don't want them", and they "make the bible bigger".

Jerome deciding that the Hebrew bible didn't have the apocryphal books is also meaningless. If our bibles today are composed by mortal men who are unsure about the validity of what lives between the front and back covers, then the authority of any institution that calls itself Christian is in serious trouble. How is it that the Good Book is not made under the guidance of the Holy Ghost, but by what people want? This is why I am still researching what could have become of the prophecies of Enoch or the book of Jasher; these were and still are things worth knowing (at least if you believe in God). After the Hebrew bible was completed, there was still more that God intended for us to know with the advent of the new covenant. Quoting Enoch in the book of Jude is no small thing, what knowledge is still out there? That is why I say a real King James version of the bible should not have the apocrypha removed. If they aren't scripture, they still serve as valuable knowledge for Christians.

The Hebrew bible does not get to determine what is and is not canon, or else we would have to reject the New Testament as I said earlier. If we showed the gospels, Revelation, Acts, or the epistles of Paul to the Pharisees, guess what would happen? They would say "do not read that or follow those, they are blasphemous". They rejected Jesus Christ and yet we should take guidance from them (even though they have been dead for over a thousand years!) concerning what the scriptures are?

After I said you had no proof God doesn't want us to have certain things, you went ahead and doubled down. How do you know the book of Jasher served its purpose or that it is gone? You have read the original copy of a book that is currently considered lost to time and have the authority to judge that we don't need to see it? This reasoning does not hold up when we compare it with how the book of Jude quotes Enoch (not exactly the copies found in the Dead Sea Scrolls).
Replies: >>233522
Someone reading Jude would see Enoch's prophecy and wonder where it might have come from with no way to look further into the matter (besides maybe prayer) until the discovery of the entire text in Ethiopia or the fragments extracted from the DSS. It could be that that is the situation the book of Jasher or perhaps even the Wars of the Lord is in today. They are mentioned, and with enough time may be found. God is not incompetent nor was he blindsided by bad bookkeeping. As such what you say about God's thoughts boils down to pure speculation.

What I'm on about is the pursuit of knowledge. I can't just read stuff like Cain having a wife with zero explanation as to where she came from and say "well, it's probably not worth looking into". Why do you think people do archaeology? Spend decades translating ancient texts? We do this to understand (not just about God). Why would I not want to learn about God and the people of the past? It is madness to sit and wonder how the continents got to where they are in the context of a great flood? How native Americans split off from the rest of humanity and developed on their own for thousands of years?

Lastly, your point about old bible manuscripts brings me back to why I'm interested in all of this stuff in the first place. How do I know that when I pick up a bible, it is the complete, unadulterated word of God? What led men in the past to say "we trust this gospel, but not that one"? The DSS were found on complete accident, what if we find something in the future that turns all of this on its head? We as humans do not know everything. As such, I question the authority of those who have compiled various canons as I still haven't heard (at least from you) that any of them, be they Jerome, Caesareans, or any one else, were guided by the Holy Ghost and proved such.
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>>233512
what happened to going to those who want it
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>>233518
>>233519
Lover, the community centre is closing and I am going home.

 What are you trying to say? What do you want? What is the point of your posts now? Listen closely, JESUS and the APOSTLES, used the Hebrew Bible, the Hebrew Canon. okay? So, we continue to. That's just it that's all, if there's a problem with that then there's a problem with Christianity, because we believe Jesus and that His words are revealed in the Gospels where he gave authority to His apostles. Now you want to also read the Apocrypha go ahead. There's no evidence Jesus and the Apostles or even the Jewish leaders used them as authoritative.
Yes Jude says "Enoch says ___" did he really say that? For that reason Jude is the most contested book in the New Testament. Because the only evidence we have of Enoch saying those words, indeed any words are in the book of Enoch which is hard to say is authentic, but it could be or parts of it could be. Whether it is or not AGAIN changes nothing. That's why these discussions have an end point. Here's the evidence, make your decision, people in my church believe evolution is real and the universe is billions of years old, I think that's stupid and against scripture, but that's fine, it's not the end of the world, we can't allow it to be the end of the world. Otherwise we would have strife and contention over everything when we have more weighty matters still to attend to first.
I have the Apocrypha in my bible because I wanted to have all the same information as people who read the DRB and the (well there's not many eastern orthodox english bibles) so that they can't try to trick me, as often people do by saying "Well this says this" and it turns out that's not what it says. And I have met a roman catholic who tried to pull that with me, he himself never even read the whole Catholic bible, well, I had and called him out on some things. Because the reality is the Apocrypha adds nothing new.

You've said so much that is kind of, and I have 5 minutes left until the community centre closes. And I think I won't be able to respond until tomorrow. We know why we accepted the four Gospels and not others. Erik Manning also does videos about this kind of stuff, sometimes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBFO6CF28ME
If you want to read the Word of God there's not much choice, and in fact you can also read EVERYTHING that has survived, read all the fake Gospels as well and see for yourself, they ooze evil spirits. But well I can't fully talk about this until tomorrow. And obviously the Word of God has survived because Jesus said His words would last forever "well maybe him saying that is also a fake part of the Bible" well at a certain point what can you say. I must go.they're kicking me out.
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>>233522
>Lover

I... what?
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>>233527
Consider yourself now initiated to Joseph's degeneracy.
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>>232551
>Wow 14 billion years!? That's a pretty radical claim. 
Ah okay, I take it you are a Young Earth creationist then.

In this case, would you also disagree with the evidence presented by geologists that the Grand Canyon is 5-6 million years old? If so, do you have an alternative theory on how it could have formed? Do you think both geologists and astronomers are mistaken in their findings?

I have another unrelated question. Do you think if you were born into a Hindu family, you would still believe that Christianity was the correct one? Is there some evidence that Christianity is true and the teachings of Hinduism are wrong?
Replies: >>233624
Is this spic's schizo babble interesting enough to not be considered spam?
>>233519
So actually I don't think I really have anything more to say, that video I posted talks about why we chose the four Gospels, because I mean what else are you going to choose, we choose all the reliable Gospels. That's about it, from a textual critical standpoint and all other stand points the books of the Bible all make perfect sense. You need moreso a reason to say they are false rather than anything else.
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The Earth is not 3,000 years old, you Christian retards. A jew in the sky did not create the universe.
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>>233530
You haven't presented any reason why the Grand Canyon is 6 million years old so I cannot really respond to anything. Nothing really suggests it would be that age.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tLQX-hQMT4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dESkfaURR38
https://creation.com/folded-rocks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JnaVO3vrnE

I don't think what family you are born into matters much of anything. Sigmond Freud was part of a Jewish family, he thought "religion" was stupid. Zac Poonen is from India along with so many other Christians in India though he had a christian father his father might not have https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2guMUkUtHI. I don't have a Christian family.

People follow culture or truth. Hindus don't believe their own religion, it's cultural to them.
Watch a Hindu priest admit there is only one God, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6OIU-KIrBw and I myself have also seen this.
Or watch a Hindu pray to God while working in a scam call centre, it's a cultural practice they just do as someone living in India says, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2r95VOdiLk
And we know ancient Romans and Greeks believed in one God. Everyone always has. Polytheism is not the belief in multiple gods but that God is multiple gods.

the idol god religions are cultural.
For a certain man named Demetrius, a silversmith, which made silver shrines for Diana, brought no small gain unto the craftsmen; Whom he called together with the workmen of like occupation, and said, Sirs, ye know that by this craft we have our wealth. Moreover ye see and hear, that not alone at Ephesus, but almost throughout all Asia, this Paul hath persuaded and turned away much people, saying that they be no gods, which are made with hands: so that not only this our craft is in danger to be set at nought; but also that the temple of the great goddess Diana should be despised, and her magnificence should be destroyed, whom all Asia and the world worshippeth. And when they heard these sayings, they were full of wrath, and cried out, saying, Great is Diana of the Ephesians. And the whole city was filled with confusion: and having caught Gaius and Aristarchus, men of Macedonia, Paul's companions in travel, they rushed with one accord into the theatre. (Acts 19)
And you can also read the second century christians talk about this at length talking about what the Romans and Greeks believed about their idol god statues.

Christianity is different from every other religion in the world for many reasons including that lovers of Jesus spawn all over the world. It spreads through conversion. Hinduism doesn't spread through conversion, Buddhism and Islam and Judaism don't spread through conversion. They spread through birth rate. How many people are converting to Judaism, is it not all a family affair. And Muslims, I only have ever seen real Muslims who are immigrants from the middle east and they continue to be Muslims because of their family. If we're talking about family then talk about those religions. They don't convert people because there's ZERO reason to convert, unless it's for some new age random nonsense reason, not a reason by reason or thought or evidence or anything.

The church succeeds all over the world. underground in China there's many many Christians, how many white European Buddhist are there. And there are many in the church in Africa and the middle east and India. Korea. How many people do you know have converted to Hinduism who had no relation to it? But we know endless christians and in fact most christians come from conversion because they have a born again conversion experience.

Europe does have a Christian cultural history. And there are many cultural christians, and people who are born into a christian culture, but that's as irrelevant to true Christians as fake Muslims are to Islam.
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>>233624
The world is not 3,000 years old. Tgere is no Jew in the sky who is waiting to send me to bad goyim down under.
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>>233623
>>233625
Nowhere in the Bible does it say any of those things, retard.
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>>233624
This woman didn't have any christian parents or friends by the way. That's the impassioned speech of someone who has found the truth, not by smart words of men but by the Spirit. Not like white europeans playing dress up as Buddhists and new age rubbish. You won't find anything on earth like Jesus, He alone is.

Also Amaziah said unto Amos, O thou seer, go, flee thee away into the land of Judah, and there eat bread, and prophesy there: but prophesy not again any more at Bethel: for it is the king's chapel, and it is the king's court. Then answered Amos, and said to Amaziah, I was no prophet, neither was I a prophet's son; but I was an herdman, and a gatherer of sycomore fruit: and the LORD took me as I followed the flock, and the LORD said unto me, Go, prophesy unto my people Israel." (Amos 7)

But whether someone grows up in the church good for them. Even then you will always hear as Zac Poonen says and as Billy Graham says, they both growing up in the church, will tell you they were never christians while in the church until the Lord visited them. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXGyACvE6BA
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>>233626
Your Jewish book isn't real, retard.
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>>233624
I actually posted the wrong link I meant to post Andrew Snelling's full presentation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0imsTv5Ez4
This is someone who lives and breathes the Grand Canyon, now if you want to find a secular person who spends time in the Grand Canyon and can give a presentation on why it's millions of years old, find that if you think it's convincing at all.
>>233631
TRVKE
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>>233624
And not only is birthrate how Islam spreads, it's their intended strategy.
>>233631
Are you really saying that while posting Thor? at least there's remote links in the Bible with actual historical facets, although they are getting deleted recently by the jews.
Nordics have the "problem" of not registering and saving their historical treasures, doesn't help they were master carpenters and wood decays a lot.
Maybe taking quran and adding back from the Bible and editing the quean is the way
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